Open Thread - Holiday Related

Welp, that time of the year is coming up, and I'm curious to see what 9/11 related actions are going on related to the holiday season.

Me personally, I bought 5 copies of Griffin's last book and burned 5 sets of DVDs for a few that I know are beginning to question 9/11. A suggestion sent in involved giving away 9/11 related books and media at gift exchanges. Any other ideas for what we can do this season to help our cause?

Also, it is the giving season, and a lot of 9/11 related sites out there are in need of funding. Giving a little gift to those that support the 9/11 movement might not be a bad idea, and no I don't mean just this site ;)

Here is an open thread to kick off the week, have at it!

I just read this bummer of

I just read this bummer of an editorial over at Online Journal. Unfortunately, I tend to agree.

Who benefits in sudden furor over Bush administration's domestic spying

As tempting as it may be for many to feel gratification over how George W. Bush is being hoisted upon his own petard for spying on US citizens, the real issues of importance remain studiously avoided.

The newfound "outrage" belies the fact that there was no such congressional outrage when it mattered -- four, five years ago, and every single day since 9/11.

The USA PATRIOT Act, a bipartisan atrocity, has been on the books for four years. The Bush administration's intelligence apparatus has undoubtedly been engaged in domestic spying continuously, with bipartisan approval. Horrendous crimes committed under the pretext of the "war on terrorism," another bipartisan atrocity (that continues to enjoy enthusiastic support), have taken place on a daily basis. The major crimes of the US government, including 9/11, remain unaddressed, or have become the subject of massive disinformation and cover-up.

The only reason why congressional Democrats and other critics of Bush have suddenly emerged from the woodwork, after four years of silence and supplication, is that the Bush faction has screwed the pooch, and badly blown its turn as the New World Order's manager. So the 2006 (s)election year approaches. With it comes another foolish turn at rearranging of deck chairs on a sinking ship, and another year of false hopes and naivete. This foolishness may end in yet another round of defeat and angst, as the Republican forces that control the voting machines will steal more elections, just as they have manipulated every election since 2000, from the US to Iraq. (Or, perhaps the rival faction will be given the machines.) In the end, noise aside, there is no reason for optimism.

Surely one or two of us

Surely one or two of us follow Peak Oil, as partial motive for 911 and the warrenterra hoax. So you may know of James Howard Kunstler, he authored "The Long Emergency" this year. Well he has a blog with a weekly article. He's into PO but rejects 911 theories outside of the official CT. Well this week's article "Call off the Dawgs" has him stubborn as ever, promoting the 911 OCT. Too bad he has alot good to say but he really debases himself with the stubborness wrt 911-Truth. Check out the article:

Hey, you could leave a comment there too!

slightly OT: Two years ago

slightly OT:

Two years ago I've made some thoughts about the bigger picture, let them call "rotten reign" and the connection to christmas.

Errr so like hello anyone

Errr so like hello anyone going to make a thread about this lol?

^Prisonplanet covering!!!!!

Hi all, I've been reading

Hi all,

I've been reading this informative site for a few months now and just wanted to suggest a campaign.

Would it be worth while to email links to the following recent articles to your elected representatives?

"The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True"

"Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93: The 9/11 Commission's Incredible Tales"

The latter would be nicely complemented by the following page:

"Animation showing military precision of flight paths of the hijacked planes"

Steven E. Jones's article might be well worth linking in this context:

"Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?"

Finally, links to the recent FOX 40 programs might do the trick for some:

As a Finn, I won't be emailing your Senators etc., but I was just wondering if you guys have approached them with these new and very readable articles (/watchable programs). I understand that only a few of them might respond constructively, but as Curt Weldon's recent activity has shown, a single person with initiative can make things happen.

It would be interesting to read about your experiences of mass campaigns such as the one suggested above.

by now all congressmen and

by now all congressmen and senators must be well aware of the myriad of discrepancies surrounding 911 - as far as I know only weldon and mckinney are speaking out about it (and not very loudly even) - but think about it:: what would happen if there was a public uprising about 911? this country would be shattered and bushco would defend itself in the only way that it could; with a another 911 - maybe a worse one - maybe next time there will be 38 arabs with magic boxcutters and magic jet fuel to highjack 8 planes and hit 8 widely scattered targets - didn't they just repeal the ban on sharp objects on planes? why the devil would they do that? there can only be one reason; so no one will wonder how the next arabs got boxcutters on the next planes -
it's just pathetic how cowardly the congress is - it's only obvious that the WTC was a controlled demo. and there was no 757 at the pentagon - but if they never address the issue, then I guess it never has to be addressed -

Hey guys, would anyone be

Hey guys, would anyone be able to assist in some civil discourse over @

In Jim's latest post he is claiming 9/11 theories as 'crazy'.

A few have already left some nice posts, but you've still got those poor crystallized government sympathizers.

Poopy, "Peak Oil" is just

Poopy, "Peak Oil" is just another scam created by the government in order to massively socially re-engineer world society by trying to convince the masses that the sky is going to fall at any near moment unless the government steps in to run all our lives, requiring massive increases in funding and power for the government in the process.

There's more oil than anyone knows what to do with. For more on the "Peak Oil" scam, see the below post by me:

"The 'Peak Oil' Scam," December 5, 2005:

Sorry Poopy, didn't even see

Sorry Poopy, didn't even see your post!

James R: I've been round and

James R: I've been round and round with the "Peak Oil Debunker" crowd at other venues. And it's like arguing religion. I'm well aware of Alex Jones, Dave McGowan's etc theories, "abiotic" oil etc. I've done plenty of research and have concluded that PO's the real deal, YMMV, which is fine. I don't see any plausible positive outcome or meaningful change of course, to propagating the abiotic theory, or that PO is a corpguv conspiracy etc.. as even if you're right it's not like the oil execs are going to come out and say, "aw shux you sheeple are alot smarter than we thought, here's your cheap hydrocarbon energy back, our bad". Believe PO's a fraud, but look around, the world is BEHAVING as though PO's real (oil wars, domestic oppression, oil hungry countries scrambling to make deals); and so it's up to you and your comrades whether to do nothing preparation wise, and instead shout about PO's a scam-- or to prepare as though it just may be the real deal. Best, Poopy

Regarding conspiracy

Regarding conspiracy theories, David Ray Griffin had an article at a few months back offering that the best strategy is to attack the official story. We can do the theorizing among ourselves, and visitors will invariably pick up on it and eagerly find a flaw to justify their lazy reliance on authority figures to do all their thinking for them. But depending on your audience of course, I agree that it's a good general rule to spare the newbies all the speculations, theories, implications, and stay on target with our best hook: the official story is a Lie.

That, and of course some current-events Christmas music:

FrankV- well said. our


well said. our theories are just as valid as the official theory but are harder to accept because of the brain washing we have allowed to take place on our fellow citizens.

focusing on the one thing everyone in the movement can agree on is the first and foremost priority. (i.e. the big lie)

how do we do that? well, by showing evidence that suggests our theories are more probable than the official one....which kinda means bringing out theories that people can attack as crazy.

the craziness is why pilots would give up their planes knowing some people were being threatened with box cutters....and why they wouldn't signal to the FAA that there were hijcackings taking place.

i am assuming of course that disturbance in the cabin would be reported to the towers before it even become aware that people were trying to take over the plane, and yet no pilot made any attempts to even say...."there is something going on in the back of the plane, tower you copy?"

"copy that AA11, what's your status?"

"AA11, what's your status?" (few more minutes pass)

FAA to NORAD, "we have radio ID of disturbance in AA11, transponder turned off, no radio contact, possible hijacking, please launch birds in the sky to tell us what's going on"

"roger that, 2 eagles headed for bogey, mach2, there in less than 10minutes"

Roger that, we asking flight___ in the vicinity of AA11 to see if there is a visual problem with the plane"

...nothing like this took place.

how can we even think the official theory is true?

and how can they dare suggest that the wargames going on actually increased our response time, when apparently no military jet incepted the hijacked planes in time? yet several C-130's were there just in time, i mean just after the crashes took place.

why spend $100 millions of dollars on strike fighters when C-130's can intercept faster?

either i'm stupid for proposing such nonsense or they are for pushing this wait, anyone who pushes this nonsense is an idiot...that is why i don't believe it.

Free DVD proving the Bush

Free DVD proving the Bush Adm planned and orchestrated 9-11

(hell, send me your mailing address and i will send you


I myself (PW) have handed out free of charge over 1000 copies.

With each passing day more and more people are learning the Bush/PNAC adminstration

Planned and Orchestrated 9-11. peace,pw

Confronting the Evidence:
A Call To Reopen the 9/11 Investigation.

The Video is Mightier Than the Pen.
Nearly a Million DVDÂ’s Given Away!

To get a FREE copy of the DVD produced by Jimmy Walter and, please complete the information below. DVD going to press February 21. Please allow 2-3 weeks after February 21. We ask you to pass the DVD along to a friend or better yet, host a party! Copy It Freely. There is no copywrite. It is double layer so make a "disk image" first to copy to regular DVD. Thanks!

To date, has given away nearly a million copies of “Confronting the Evidence: A Call to Reopen the 9/11 Investigation,” a new DVD exposing critical evidence about the 9/11 attacks. “Confronting the Evidence” includes footage of a “town hall meeting” held on September 11, 2004 in New York City. Hosted by actor and activist Ed Begley Jr., the groundbreaking event featured David Ray Griffin, David vonKleist, Barry Zwicker, Webster Tarpley, Kristina Borjesson, Karl Schwartz, Jeff King, Paul Thompson, Jenna Orkin, Christopher Scheer, Dr Robert Bowman, Christopher Bollyn, and John

The DVD also includes special selections from Eric Hufschmid's DVD on 9/11, Painful Deceptions."
Reopen911. org is sending a free DVD to every library, police department, fire department, as well as thousands of other interested patriots across the United States and abroad. For your own Free DVD, please fill out the form below.

If this DVD changes your mind, please remember that every donation helps send out more information. Please consider a generous donation to If you prefer you can mail a donation to: Reopen 911, P.O. Box 3871, Santa Barbara, CA 93130. Suggested donation level is $20-$100; however, feel free to give what you can; anything helps. All donations further the media campaign to reopen the 911 investigation.
Thank you,
James Walter and
the Reopen 9/ Staff


"^Prisonplanet covering

"^Prisonplanet covering!!!!!"

Hey DBLS, I did update the original thread with this info here:

We could make a new thread on this subject, but that would be shameless self promoting.

Wait a minute, I'll get right on it...

^ LOL, cool man! I think

^ LOL, cool man! I think this is just a knockout personally, it was just so surprising.

SBG: We could make a new

SBG: We could make a new thread on this subject, but that would be shameless self promoting.

Wait a minute, I'll get right on it...

Oh please, then prisonplanet would just put up an article saying "hey look 911blogger mentioned us!", blogger would follow suit, and the mutual stroke fest would be endless.

Wait a minute, you should get right on it!

Poopy, I don't merely say

Poopy, I don't merely say that "Peak Oil" is a scam, I *prove* that it is a scam. Like I said, there's more oil than anyone knows what to do with. For more on the "Peak Oil" scam, see the below post by me:

"The 'Peak Oil' Scam," December 5, 2005:

And no, Poopy, "the world" is *not* "BEHAVING as though PO's real"--rather, men in power are behaving as they always have throughout history, i.e., trying to obtain more power. The difference now is that the technology exists to make the goal of a one-world government and one-world religion more obtainable than it was in the past, and so the propaganda and Hegelian dialectical staged events have become more intense in trying to convince the masses that the sky is going to fall at any near moment unless the government steps in to run all our lives, necessitating that the government get more funding, power, and control in the process.

One doesn't need notions that the world is headed for apocalyptic global warming, or apocalyptic global cooling, or apocalyptic polution of the environment, or apocalyptic shortage of oil, or apocalyptic viruses, or apocalyptic terrorists trying to kill us all, or an apocalyptic U.S.S.R. (or Iraq, or now Iran) waiting to nuke us, or an apocalyptic invasion from outer space, or any other similar apocalyptic ideas--of which ideas the government invents, promotes and funds in the first place--in order to explain the actions of the ruling elite. The present-day motive of the ruling elite is the same as it has always been throughout history: obtaining more power.

It's this nature of power and hence also the nature of government which many people try to avoid coming to terms with, but until they do they will never be able to understand the events in the world and of history.

Poopy, great posts. I've

Poopy, great posts. I've been reading Kunstler's work ever since The Long Emergency appeared in Rolling Stone. He's a mixed bag for me, because I do believe Peak Oil is real and yet cannot for the life of me understand why Kunstler continues to buy into the official conspiracy of 9/11 -- and his use of the word "crazy" when talking about the possible Cheney involvement and/or other theories (most of which make more sense than the lie we've been told by the gov't).

But, let me give you a tidbit about Kunstler to prove that he's certainly not infallible. He was a big believer in Y2K doom and gloom in the 90s and was warning people of how awful things would be when the clock struck 2000.

The point is that we need to be very careful and cautious when buying into the beliefs of the various "prophets" out there. As for Peak Oil, the only way I can see that it could be a scam would be for it to be such a huge conspiracy that it would include all governments of the world. Why? Because the governments (large and small) are acting as if the supply/demand ratio of oil and natural gas is becoming unsustainable.

Poopy, your suggestion that the abiotic oil people start waking up to reality is advice they should be heeding. Peak Oil is becoming part of our daily lives, regardless of who's right about it. We need to be preparing for powerdown, like it or not, scam or not.

James Redford, isn't it just

James Redford, isn't it just as possible that governments are after power AND we're facing a supply/demand energy problem? That's more feasible in my view. The world is not infinite. Environmental degradation is real, and is a direct result of fossil fuel pollution.

I just can't see any logic behind Peak Oil being a scam. Hardly any of the population knows about it, because the MSM isn't talking about it -- it's still a fringe topic, mostly on the internet. Big oil is going to make big money with or without Peak Oil. And, as far as all the governments being in cahoots -- seems to me that if that were the case, we'd see a lot less resource wars (Afghanistan and Iraq) and they'd clamp down on us diretly rather than through propaganda (which is what Peak Oil would be if it's a scam).

That's not to say there aren't plenty of powerful people in governments who would love to create a one-world government and make us all slaves. But, I don't see those people making up Peak Oil in order to further their agenda.

James R- like I said, it's

James R- like I said, it's like discussing religion, abortion, death penalty etc with true believers.. all smoke no light. So, please feel free to believe whatever you'd like, and maybe one day the corpguv PTB will fall like golieth and give all the paul reveres their god given cheap hydrocarbon energy back. Geology's prolly a bunch of hooey anyhow.

FWIW, allegedly at some point in the near future Mike Ruppert is going to have a radio debate with Jerome Corsi re PO. Stay tuned to FTW for an advisory.

12/19- Guest: James H. Fetzer Distinguished McKnight University Professor University of Minnesota Duluth talks to Greg about 9/11, JFK and Paul Wellstone.

Poopy, thanks for that link

Poopy, thanks for that link to the Fetzer interview.

I don't know what to make of

I don't know what to make of peak oil. That new film Syriana deals with that, as well as corrupt CIA and oil companies in bed with terrorists. But I do know the bird flu is a scam; at least in the way Bush and US govt officials have been making it out to be.

Now I've been trying to wrap my head around this for 4 years. The whole Arabs on a plane/no Arabs on a plane. Mohammed Atta ties into a lot of the conspiracy theories, that seem to be verified in a lot of cases(Able Danger, Pakistani General, etc) Yet there's others who swear that no men of middle eastern background were on that plane. Whose the Arabic sounding guy in control of the plane that we hear on the FAA tapes? The pix we see from ATMs and airport security cameras? I don't believe for one second about magical plane swaps, orbs, pods, or cellphone voices being faked. I am willing to accept something fishy about the Pentagon given the lack of the footage(tho it makes sense cheney would allow the plane to strike the building, according to Norman Mineta)
So folks...arabs or no arabs, and if so were they unknowing patsys? I tend to think they really were government hating guys, convinced they were going to Allah or wherever...just like the Reichstag had a lone nut who truly thought he was working by himself.

I should add re the PO

I should add re the PO matter, and the allegedly upcoming Ruppert/Corsi debate; Jerome Corsi is the author of a recent "PO-debunking" book, "Black Gold Stranglehold".

Hmmm let's see what else he wrote?
-Atomic Iran
-Unfit for Command

The various religious factions surrounding our energy issues will need to judge Corsi's nature/agenda for themselves.

Monday, December 19th: Topic: SPECIAL EDITION! Peak Oil. Are we running out oil? Are we headed for economic and lifestyle doom? Are we ignoring the biggest threat ever to modern man?

Guest: Michael C. Ruppert of From the Wilderness. Michael Ruppert, a former Los Angeles police officer who exposed the CIA drug trade and identified Dick CheneyÂ’s role in the events of 9/11, is now warning the public about what is possibly the greatest threat to the modern manÂ’s way of life.

Tuesday, December 20th: Topic: 9/11

Eric Hufscmidt. - Author, film maker, conspiracy researcher.

archived show for today -

Dr Steven Jones has draft

Dr Steven Jones has draft 3.1 of his paper, "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?" up-

with the notes at the top:

Note: Prof. David Ray Griffin has written a complementary paper on this topic, available at:

Prof. James H. Fetzer has also written complementary paper on this topic, available at:

Prof. Steven E. Jones will provide an invited seminar open to the public at Utah Valley State College in Orem, Utah, on February 1, 2006:

"9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions"

Steven E. Jones, Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, 7:00-8:30 p.m., CS 404 (Center for the Study of Ethics, Cosponsored with the School of Science and Health)

I've listened to that

I've listened to that Szymanski/Fetzer radio interview I pointed to above. Pretty good, but I was disappointed that Fetzer was such a warrior of the bogus left/right paradigm. A caller at the end even spoke eloquently about how Fetzer should get past this, and Fetzer went into a spiel about the big differences between demrats and repugs. And he's a bit of a blow hard. Unfortunately, not 911-Truth icon material. Caller Linda in the 2nd hour was a hoot too, but in a different way...

Re: PO...How many dinosaurs

Re: PO...How many dinosaurs do YOU think had to perish to provide our world with enough oil to drive our cars, heat our homes, light our stoves and fuel our factories for just ONE day? How many millions of barrels do you think come from one dinosaur? The whole idea is preposterous. Our oil is as much a part of the nature of this planet as the heat and light that comes from the sun is a part of it's nature. If, in fact, the energy from the sun is a product of hydrogen fusion (which is the crutch decided on by science) then the abiotic oil within the crust of our earth is much the same. Think of it as 'cosmic energy'. And if that doesn't make you feel better, then ponder the energy that sustains us all and the wonder that it encompasses. Truth is, we don't know, do we? What makes your heart beat, really? What makes your eyes see, really? What gives you reason and consiousness, really? We don't know, do we? So let's call it cosmic energy. Tesla knew of it and was ruined by the knowledge...just not profitable enough, I guess and digress.

So, we can continue to be driven by the fear of anything we choose, or THEY choose, but it is NOT truth. The TRUTH is, if we don't learn to love one another, and very soon, all bets are off and so is humanity.

Another point I'd like to address is the complete fallacy regarding our monetary system. The eco-doomsday sages all seem to think that we should all be debt free and have all of our investments in gold. Oh, really? So there is "worth" in gold? Says who? This is the biggest problem with humans today. Gold? Because it makes a nice shiny ring? Gold? Becuase it is a heavy metal? Gold? Because it can be used in electronic devices that further enslave us? Becuase it makes a nice tooth filling and is non toxic? NO! Becuase THEY told us so. It is as much a "fiat system" as paper money. Paper or wood (money even) can be used for at least as many beneficial human uses as gold. I won't go in to them here. But my point is, a medium of exhange is as valuable as the exchangers want to make it.

Things of "real value" such as drinking water, uncontaminated food, shelter, warmth in the cold or cold in the warmth, security and peace of mind for yourself and your children, are priceless. The most beautiful and pristeen and largest diamond in the world pales beside my children, my hopes for them and my desire for all of humanity to understand that simple phrase.


I don't know if I posted

I don't know if I posted this already, but there's been an update...

Sibel confirmed it herself.

pockybot, maybe there were

pockybot, maybe there were arabs and maybe not. photos of an engine from the plane that hit WTC2 show that it was a 737, not a 767, which would beg the question:: "if there WERE arabs on flight175, how did they transform it from a 767 into a 737 in mid air?"

Things of "real value" such

Things of "real value" such as drinking water, uncontaminated food, shelter, warmth in the cold or cold in the warmth, security and peace of mind for yourself and your children, are priceless. The most beautiful and pristeen and largest diamond in the world pales beside my children, my hopes for them and my desire for all of humanity to understand that simple phrase.


Simply beautiful.

How The President Got A Life

How The President Got A Life & The Anthrax Attacks and the Costs of 9/11

This doesn't quite get into the "Conspiracy", but these are really good articles. I think anyway...

truthman, so true.


so true.

kw, apparently you didn't

kw, apparently you didn't read over my post "The 'Peak Oil' Scam" very thoroughly. Hardly all governments are promoting the "Peak Oil" scam. Saudi Arabia quadrupled their known recoverable oil reserve figures last year. For more on that and much more, see the below post by me:

"The 'Peak Oil' Scam," December 5, 2005:

truthman, gold (and silver) is the money (i.e., medium of exhange) which the participants in the market have voluntarily chosen throughout history when enough of it was available to be used as such. It is a natural medium of exchange, in the sense that it wasn't imposed upon the market participants by government decree like the fiat currency which we now suffer under, but was chosen by the market participants due to certain qualities that is has which make it particularly suitable as a medium of exhange.

As well, a non-fraudulant gold (or silver) standard cannot be inflated like fiat currency, and hence the boom-bust business cycle which results from inflation of the money supply cannot occur.

For more on that, see the below resources:

The Case for the 100 Percent Gold Dollar by Prof. Murray N. Rothbard:

What Has Government Done to Our Money? by Prof. Murray N. Rothbard: just just opened a forum, guess which is the first topic on the list.

those guys at ImplosionWorld

those guys at ImplosionWorld are apparently going to create a document that "irrefutably" discredits any claim that explosives were used on 9/11...

I encourage everyone here reading this to really push them to do this, since the only statements they have made so far are "you're nuts" or "no way explosives did it", which is the typical response to anyone who brings it up, instead of actually providing factual scientific evidence and testimony, they simply revert to the "shut up" argument. It is quite frustrating.

DHS: point the

DHS: point the implosionworld shills to the million dollar contest:
That always seems to shut up blue-pill people re the 3 controlled demolitions on 911.

James R: glad to see you're into sound money. The way money works has everything to do with 911 and the economic meltdown we face. For those who'd like a lesson on money (not the public school version), I'd recommend the book "The Creature from Jeckyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. Read the amazon reviews to get a feel for it:

Here's audio of a speech by G.E. Griffin on money and the Fed, sort of a short version of his book, click on "Creature-From Jeckyll-Island", it's a little over an hour:

Also recommended is the video, "The Money Masters" which you can watch here:

As long as I'm dumping links

As long as I'm dumping links which help to see 911 in the larger context, check the free online e-book "The Police State Road Map":

As to "The Money Masters" video which you can d/l at the link I pointed to in the post above, here's their site:

poopy: someone mentioned the

poopy: someone mentioned the contest and the implosionworld people scoffed at the guidelines and prerequisites and claimed that they have been in contact numerous times with the contest's people, questioning the judges and the authenticity of the contest.

James, great job at the

James, great job at the implosionworld forum.
Dudes, there is this interesting article on counterpunch:
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI

"So there is "worth" in

"So there is "worth" in gold? Says who? This is the biggest problem with humans today. Gold? Because it makes a nice shiny ring? Gold? Becuase it is a heavy metal? Gold?"

I agree, there is little worth in Gold, especially Jon Gold...

What are people's thoughts

What are people's thoughts on Bush Sr. and the JFK assassination? How about JFK Jr?

"So there is "worth" in

"So there is "worth" in gold? Says who? This is the biggest problem with humans today. Gold? Because it makes a nice shiny ring? Gold? Becuase it is a heavy metal? Gold?"

I agree, there is little worth in Gold, especially Jon Gold...

You insult me without even letting me know? That is a low blow my friend, a low blow. I'm just lucky I came across this.

Did you see what the perverts did today?

That is some spectacular

That is some spectacular news!!!!

Well... I just wanted to let

Well... I just wanted to let everyone know that I have no idea what I am talking about. I like to make stuff-up and send emails to all other dumb-dumb heads like you so that you believe things that you have absolutely no idea about.


on second thought... feel

on second thought... feel free to write me directly so that I can let you just how really inept you are...