Open Thread - New Shirts

Slow news day it seems..

I added a few of the t-shirt designs suggested. You can find them via the t-shirt link on the left panel, or by clicking here. These new shirts also have customizable text, so if you would like to put your own text on these 9/11 Blogger shirts you can, be creative and take some action shots ;)

Open thread, have at it.

p.s. we aren't making any money from selling these shirts, so if you want to make your own and save a few bucks go for it.

I have a good

I have a good one...

"Where's Mineta's Testimony?"

Or... "Cheney's TOA At The

Or...

"Cheney's TOA At The PEOC...
Norman Mineta - Before 9:20am
9/11 Report - 9:58am
Where's Mineta's Testimony?"

Hi! I came across this

Hi! I came across this article a few days ago about the Pentagon on 911. I thought it was pretty good so I thought I'd pass it along. I'm just starting to "wake up" recently about everything that went down on 911, and this one was really a loud alarm clock. Great blog you've got here, by the way! Keep up the good work.

The article is:

Evidence That a Frozen Fish Didn't Impact the Pentagon on 9/11, and Neither Did a Boeing 757

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/Above_Top_Secret_article.htm

This may be politically

This may be politically incorrect , but it is important to share nonetheless:

From Emanuel Sferios, of
The 911 Visibilty Project
SeptemberEleventh.org

"It took me a while, but it's now easy to see/understand. There *are* 757 plane parts in the photos, and the fire/impact area of the photos *is* the size of a 757. The reason there aren't any large, obvious pieces of 757 in the photos: planes flying that fast into large buildings get pretty shredded. (Nonetheless, there are clearly visible 757 parts in the photos.)"

"Remember the videos of the south tower hit? Recall the fact that the plane hit at an angle, and the big fireball appeared on the outside of the building (unlike the north tower, where it hit straight on center). The significant thing to note here is that you didn't see the plane come through the building, or any big, obvious pieces of the plane come through. That's because planes hitting buildings at that speed get pretty darn shredded in the massive explosion. The same thing happened at the Pentagon. Go look at the photos, though. The damage to the building is in the shape of a full-sized 757."

"Also, you know that hole in the back wall of the Pentagon. Who was it that supposedly claimed that was from the "nose cone" of the plane? Did the government make that claim? I don't think so. Clearly that claim is false, and easily debunked. However, the counter-claim that it must therefore be from a missile is not the only other explanation. It very likely was a hole knocked out by the rescue workers, from the outside inward! The whole debate between "nose-cone versus missile" seems a big red-herring, part of the hoax to convince us (people inside the movement that is) that it was a missile."

"Also, remember the five Pentagon security photos (the ones dated September 12), which when played in sequence looks clearly like a missile struck the Pentagon. Who released these photos? That's right. The Pentagon released them. Should make us think."

"John Judge was right all along. I've finally come around, and I'm not that embarrassed about it having taken me this long, because, well, it was a damn good hoax--a professional job well done."

".... if you think that the "no plane at the Pentagon" claim, even if it is wrong, is harmless... or if you think perhaps even it is beneficial because it converts a lot of people into 9/11 skeptics (and it certianly does), please think again. John Judge and Mark Robinowitz and others are correct that its intention was to alienate people inside the beltway, and make us look foolish among D.C. professionals. It succeeded."

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The Pentagon No-757-Crash Theory:
Booby Trap for 9/11 Skeptics
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.html

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The Pentagon attack:
the "no plane" theories discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from proven evidence of complicity
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

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The Pentagon Attack
and American Airlines Flight 77
by John Judge
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/PAandAAF77.html

Did anybody else notice the

Did anybody else notice the similarities tonight from "24" and 9/11??? Here's what I noticed as parallel: 1. People inside the administration letting a terrorist activity happen. (we'll see soon what advantage the Administration receives from it) 2. The willingfull ignorant president. 3. The digital voice altercations.

I could be reading too much into it. In a few episodes we should be able to know if the producers of "24" have been doing a little research...

I'm trying to do an

I'm trying to do an experiment. but i'm not a physics person.

Imagine if you had 110 4 inch thick slabs of concrete that were magically suspended in air with no supports underneath. Each of these slabs is the size of a WTC floor. They are 12 feet apart and are total 1300+ feet high. say the top one starts to drop, then it hits the second highest one and so on all the way down. Note that each slab does not start to fall until it is hit from above. So, the only thing slowing the free fall collapse of the slabs is the inertia of the slabs.

It would be interesting to compute the estimated time it would take for it to fall to the ground.

When the first floor hits the second, am i correct in assuming that it's downward velocity will be cut in half assuming no concrete pulverization? and when the 2 slabs hit the third their velocity will be cut in 2/3 and so on all the way down?

i tried to compute the first few floors with this method and i got 0.6124, 0.37845, 0.30736, 0.2657, 0.23748 for the 1st through 5th floors. totalling 1.80139 seconds from the start of the top floor's collapse and when 5 pancaked floors hit the 6th.

and i would suggest for a

and i would suggest for a t-shirt design a quote by richard dawkins.

The war isn't between good and evil. The war is between two evils.

it was in a different context but i thought it applies well to the fake war on terror.

>>>From Emanuel Sferios "It

>>>From Emanuel Sferios
"It took me a while, but it's now easy to see/understand. There *are* 757 plane parts in the photos, and the fire/impact area of the photos *is* the size of a 757.
All the "757 parts" seen at the Pentagon are 1) small enough to easily have been planted and 2) most are cleary not 757 parts.
"The reason there aren't any large, obvious pieces of 757 in the photos: planes flying that fast into large buildings get pretty shredded... That's because planes hitting buildings at that speed get pretty darn shredded in the massive explosion. The same thing happened at the Pentagon.
The Pentagon claims to have recovered 63 of 64 passengers inside the building. How does Emanuel he explain that if he thinks Flight 77 hit there and was "shredded to piece"?
"Go look at the photos, though. The damage to the building is in the shape of a full-sized 757."
It's in the shape of a 'square/rectangle' cut-out! Obvious that area was pre-cut for the incident to make it look like something crashed into the wall.
"Also, you know that hole in the back wall of the Pentagon. Who was it that supposedly claimed that was from the "nose cone" of the plane? Did the government make that claim? I don't think so."
WRONG!...
Mr. Lee Evey, the Pentagon's renovation manager (09/15/01):
"The plane actually penetrated through the...E ring, D ring, C ring."
"The nose of the plane just barely broke through the inside of the C ring, so it was extending into A-E Drive a little bit. So that's the extent of penetration of the aircraft."

".... if you think that the "no plane at the Pentagon" claim, even if it is wrong, is harmless... or if you think perhaps even it is beneficial because it converts a lot of people into 9/11 skeptics (and it certianly does), please think again. John Judge and Mark Robinowitz and others are correct that its intention was to alienate people inside the beltway, and make us look foolish among D.C. professionals. It succeeded."

If Judge and "Bogus" Robinowitz actually had some real evidence that Flight 77 crashed there and not just a couple of obvious planted plane parts, we might take them a little more seriously about the Pentagon crash. THEY are the ones who are looking foolish and are splitting the 9/11 truth movement with telling everybody that this is a "forbidden issue" and to stay away from it. Who elected them gods of the 9/11 truth movement? I think they are just cowards and don't want to admit no 757 crashed there. Tell them to go do some real research on this issue instead of their tiring "bogus sites" "poisoning the well" BS they keep mouthing off.

Hehe...

Hehe...

Killtown. Quick

Killtown. Quick question.

Where in these photos do you see a plane?

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6871

You can't, can you? Yet, it's common knowledge and accepted that a C-130 crashed into that apartment building. How do we know? I don't see any wreckage. Does that mean something other than a C-130 hit that apartment complex? Something we should research? I'm not going to waste my time. I can't speak for anyone else.

Flight 77 disappeared from radar screens over Indianapolis at around 8:50 based on the FAA transcript, and at 8:51 according to the 9/11 Report. Indianapolis is 593 miles from Washington D.C according to www.mapquest.com. A Boeing 757 travels at a top speed of 609 mph according to the Boeing website.. Whatever hit the Pentagon, hit at 9:37:46 based on the 9/11 Report. It is possible Flight 77 hit the Pentagon in 46-47 minutes based on those numbers, and times, and that a plane covers distances faster at higher altitudes.

However, I don't understand that if there is evidence that exists out there that could prove what actually hit the Pentagon, why we're not being shown it.

I don't understand why FBI agents, within 5 minutes of the event, decided to confiscate the videos from the neighboring hotel and gas station. Shouldn't their priorities have been with making sure everyone at the Pentagon was safe? Who in their right mind would think to confiscate videos in the moment of a disaster? Unless they were SUPER FBI agents without a heart, or a sense of fear, who thought that those videos might come in handy to investigate what happened. Well if that's the case, why not release them? Maybe they were ordered to confiscate them prior to the event taking place. I'm not comfortable with the reasons we're being given as to why they're not being released.

I don't understand why the Pentagon's anti-aircraft batteries weren't fired. Someone mentioned to me that they think they actually may have been fired, and that's why the videos have been confiscated. Again, release them.

I don't understand why planes from neighboring Andrews Air Force base weren't sent to intercept Flight 77 knowing full well that it was being monitored by the likes of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld for at least 50 miles.

I don't understand how Hani Hanjour, a person with VERY questionable flight skills, managed to make what other pilots have referred to as an "impossible maneuver".

The information about the Pentagon is VERY damaging without even mentioning something other than Flight 77 hitting it. That's my personal opinion.

Also, if you look at almost ALL of the critiques of the movement by the mainstream media, they almost always focus on that theory as a way to discredit us.

I think it's best to just avoid the speculation, and focus on the facts. That's my opinion.

I think the time I just

I think the time I just spent writing that response could have been better spent elsewhere.

then why did you write it???

then why did you write it??? i dont see how it hurts anyone by thinking no plane hit the pentagon... i sure dont think a 757 hit it....

i dont see why people try to stop people from looking into it...

and, i dont like any group that says that 77 di hit it... like they know for sure?? HAHAHAH!!!

eh, both sides have

eh, both sides have opinions, and that is fine and dandy.. at the end of the day noone knows the truth, and thats what we must demand right?

after all, the gov't could resolve flight 77 questions by releasing any of the 84 videos requested by flight77.info's FOIA request.

I think promoting something

I think promoting something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, AS FACT, is a dangerous game to play. I used to think the same thing about the demolitions, however, since Dr. Jones has come out, I've looked at it in a new light. No "Dr. Jones" has come out to say that a missile did hit the Pentagon. More importantly, there's no footage of it. At least with the WTC, I have something to judge by. There are so many more incriminating pieces of information that can be easily verified. No need to promote that which we can't. Put it on the back burner, and move on. If something comes out that adds credibility to the argument, re-include it in your message.

I wrote the above.

I wrote the above.

What puzzles me is the

What puzzles me is the scarcity of pre-collapse photographs of the Pentagon.

After all, the wall didn't collapse until 20--30 (?) minutes after whatever had crashed into the building. So it would seem that many people would have had time to stop and take pictures of the wall.

Yet I have only seen a few such pictures, and not a single one in which the hole is not almost totally covered by the fire suppressant (fome). This makes it difficult to judge the size of the hole.

hmm...something DID hit the

hmm...something DID hit the pentagon, but I would think that if it had been flight77 as claimed, they would be bending over backwards to prove it, wouldn't they? - and what was the original story anyway? flight77 vaporized upon impact? the ASCE's bogus report claimed that flight77 slid inside the building, knocking over a bunch of support columns - I saw that presentation on TV, so is that the official line? the ASCE's report has since been proven wrong by Sami Yli-Karjanmaa's report, which in my opinion proves beyond ANY doubt that whatever hit the pentagon, it was NOT a 757 -

the pentagon flash video

the pentagon flash video woke a lot of people up so i dont see how it hurts... even if one day they break out a video that shows it was a 757 who gives a shit???

gold, so you say its a fact that a 757 hit the pentagon??? HAHAH!!!!

No... I said, "It is

No... I said, "It is possible Flight 77 hit the Pentagon". As long as it's possible that it happened, I'm not going to promote something other than Flight 77 hittiing the Pentagon. I've voiced my reasons why. I think if the "Missile/Pentagon" theory is presented as one of the main arguments we have for why we think our Government was behind 9/11, the possibility exists that we will be made fools of.

Who's the guy who wrote the

Who's the guy who wrote the article, "Where's Your Proof?"...

Was one of the questions he listed in regards to what hit the Pentagon?

The Government says it was Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon after performing an impossible maneuver. Ok. Prove it. There are videos in existence that could tell us. If you're not going to release them, there's a reason why. I would like to know what that reason is.

Bryan Sacks reported on the following:

"Hansen asked whether Zelikow had seen key evidence that would erase any doubt that a commercial airliner in fact hit the Pentagon, including surveillance videos, rescue workers' statements and the NTSB report. Zelikow said he had, but that neither Hansen nor any other private citizen could see them. Zelikow added that the NTSB report contained the following information:

...air traffic controllers at Dulles saw on their radar that a plane was approaching, without its transponder turned on, but they could not identify it just by radar. It was not one scheduled to come into Dulles, so they assumed it was landing at Reagan National, and when it dropped off their radar at the Pentagon they knew something was wrong. This was 35 minutes after the second World Trade Center Tower had been hit.

"I told him this explanation defied reason," Hansen wrote, recalling their exchange, "but he said it is proven in the NTSB Report, which I can't see."

Hansen makes clear just how frustrating his exchange was with Zelikow:

"I asked him why he and the Commission and the staff don't simply release photos and other information to the public so that we can rest assured that the Commission has fully investigated and answered these and other persistent questions. His answer was that the staff, including himself of course as Executive Director, made a conscious decision not to dignify these 'outrageous conspiracy theories' by investigating them or reporting on them."

If there's a reason why they don't want to release those videos, then I want to know what the reason is. Telling us that it would interfere with the Moussaoui trial doesn't make any sense. Telling us they're not going to respond to "Outrageous Conspiracy Theories" as a reason just doesn't cut the mustard. Their theory is MORE "outrageous" than ours by far.

The 9/11 Commission failed in its' mandate to give a "full and complete accounting" in regards to the events of 9/11.

There was no investigation. What was presented to us was nothing more than a fairy tale, based on inconsistencies and fabrications.

So rather than speculate on

So rather than speculate on what MIGHT have hit the Pentagon, I'm going to focus my efforts on getting a REAL investigation into 9/11.

Here's a good analogy. It's

Here's a good analogy. It's the 4th quarter, 2 minutes to go, you need a touchdown to win. Who do you bring onto the field? Your best players, or your scrubs?

You get the chance to present your case for 9/11, you do it with the best information you have.

Otherwise, you're going to lose the game.

i dont care what it is that

i dont care what it is that wakes people up.. i dont care if they buy no plane at the wtc.. lol.. anything that leads them to the truth is fine by me...

But we need more numbers.

But we need more numbers. The best way to do that is by presenting the most convincing, irrefutable pieces of information. That way, when "newbies" start to look things up for themselves, they see that we're not talking "BS".

You make it seem as if I

You make it seem as if I want the movement to fail. If that's what you think, then you don't know me very well.

Killtown. Quick question.

Killtown. Quick question. Where in these photos do you see a plane? You can't, can you?
No, I don't see anything of a plane in those two photos at Prison Planet. However, I do see a nice big crumpled smoking starboard wing here.
It is possible Flight 77 hit the Pentagon in 46-47 minutes based on those numbers, and times, and that a plane covers distances faster at higher altitudes.
What's not possible, in my opinion, is 77 being able to fly that whole distance undetected and making experience ground controllers thinks it's a "military plane."
However, I don't understand that if there is evidence that exists out there that could prove what actually hit the Pentagon, why we're not being shown it.
From the gov't, or 9/11 skeptics?
I don't understand why FBI agents, within 5 minutes of the event, decided to confiscate the videos from the neighboring hotel and gas station... I'm not comfortable with the reasons we're being given as to why they're not being released.
Agreed.
I don't understand why the Pentagon's anti-aircraft batteries weren't fired.

I'm still on-the-fence as to whether the Pentagon had those. I would assume they would have something like that for protection, but haven't seen any evidence that they did (someone please show me if there is). If the Pentagon indeed had them, maybe the reason they didn't fire is because (speculating) it was a U.S missile or Global Hawk that registered a "friendly" signal on the Pentagon's radar?
I don't understand why planes from neighboring Andrews Air Force base weren't sent to intercept Flight 77 knowing full well that it was being monitored by the likes of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld for at least 50 miles.
Agreed.
I don't understand how Hani Hanjour, a person with VERY questionable flight skills, managed to make what other pilots have referred to as an "impossible maneuver".
Agreed.
The information about the Pentagon is VERY damaging without even mentioning something other than Flight 77 hitting it. That's my personal opinion.
And I agree a lot about that too.
Also, if you look at almost ALL of the critiques of the movement by the mainstream media, they almost always focus on that theory as a way to discredit us.
I think that's because the Pentagon conspiracy is the only issues that has been covered by the media thanks to Meyssan's book. When Dr. Jones went on Phucker Carlson's show talking about WTC demolition, that theory was ridiculed too.
I think it's best to just avoid the speculation, and focus on the facts. That's my opinion.
I've always focused on facts and less on speculation. I just don't see any reason to avoid aggressively investigating the Pentagon conspiracy just as much as any other aspect of 9/11.

Nothing I've seen in regards

Nothing I've seen in regards to the "Pentagon Conspiracy" shows me what hit the Pentagon. That's why it's more important to focus on the videos they're holding, than it is to focus on what hit the Pentagon. I could say a meteor struck the Pentagon, and there would be no way to confirm or deny that statement. Same for a missile.

dz: Thanks for useing the

dz: Thanks for useing the shirt ideas. Proud you liked them. I was stoked to see them this morning and was dyeing to come home and order a few. On the way WALKING home I got a call from my mechanic I have to basically replace my 7 year old car with only 35,000 miles on it due to neglect on my part (antifreeze is important I guess after all;embarrassing). Anyway life goes on but the financial lite at the end of the tunnel I just started seeing eclipsed. I will buy these shirts within a few monthes. Sorry you dont make any cash on these. Perhaps if there was more intrest it would be worth getting them done yourself and makeing a few bucks. Im really pissed at myself rite now. Better the car than my health. For whatever reason I cant see the back of the shirts on my computer but its obvious enough I guess. Does the "patriot" and "wanted" have a 911blogger logo on the back? Doesnt say it does on the description.

Jon, I'm not focused on what

Jon,

I'm not focused on what hit the Pentagon either and I really don't care what did. My only concern at this point is what DIDN'T hit it. I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the Pentagon tapes too.

One reason I think the Pentagon doesn't want to release any of these tapes, besides not showing a 757 crashing there, is that they might show a different fireball explosion from the building then the one seen on the security pics which will prove those pics are fake which I believe.

Cheers!

Hey sorry for the above post

Hey sorry for the above post everyone. My petty transportation situation is of no importance here. I just walked in bumming from the bad news with my heart rate soaring after jogging the last mile. Just felt like beating myself up in a public forum....

Any word on the status of

Any word on the status of that DRG video (NY)? Anyone know if that Steven Jones event is being taped Next month? Any info on who might be at that Chicago event?

My two cents. I have not

My two cents. I have not seen proof of an actual plane at the pentagon nor have I seen proof a missle. Proof for me would be video or photos. Which I think the MOST secure building in th world with all the cameras focused on it there is proof out there somewhere. If we are not seeing the video or photos it is because of a cover up or a myop. Either way it still is evidence that the attack is not what we were told on the news. Additionally I have a friend a retired major from the u.s.a.f. who had worked in the Pentagon at the time of the attacks and he told me point blank that there was no plane. He agreed with me when I had said I thought 9-11 was the muscle behind the coup which occured with the appointment of BushCo as president in 2000. Striking the Pentagon helped as did the anthrax to say to those in the military and in congress that the neocons are in charge so either get in line or pay the price.

When responding to a hating

When responding to a hating name caller in a blog, it is better to use the space to make another point. You're not going to change the hater's mind but other people viewing it may decide that your track seems more reasonable and sober.

shoulda made "I suffer from

shoulda made "I suffer from a Military-Industrial Complex" shirt...

it's funny, like a disease or disorder...

MIC was the topic of John Stewart's guest last night.

edward, who is the hating

edward, who is the hating name caller???

This isn't rocket science:

This isn't rocket science: anyone who seems to be working way too hard to do the government's work for it (birdwatcher, for eg.), probably is.
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