Weekend Grab Bag

Hi all, sorry if I haven't been posting your submissions, been really busy working on other projects and haven't been able to. Since DZ has chosen to take the weekend off (which was NOT authorized by me BTW), I will make a better effort to keep on top of things. Please keep the submissions coming. Here are a few goodies for you:

Article in Style Weekly: Getting the 411 on 9/11

Village Voice articles:

The birth and life of the '9-11 Truth movement'
The basics of alternative 9-11 theories

New review of Loose Change 2nd Edition: http://www.dvdfuture.com/review.php?id=805

Morgan Reynolds:

Bedtime Stories From Your 9/11 Commission

9/11: 80 Minutes of Unilateral Disarmament
9/11 Skepticism

For a commercial free archived mp3 of Mike Malloy's interview of David Ray Griffin.

Captain May's latest interviews:

Feb 23rd 2006 with broadcaster Frank Whalen (3rd & 4th hours)http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Whalen06.html

This week with Zeph available here:

On TVNewsLies:
Hour 1 Hour 2

Great montage of the reported explosions: 9/11 Revisited

An interesting video from The Who Boys available here:

Uncovering the Truth About the Oklahoma City Bombing

I really don't have the

I really don't have the time or the energy to go through every detail
of Jones' paper. As another poster to this thread, who is a registered
professional engineer has explained, one can get a full review once
one's check clears. I suspect that I have done what other scientists
and engineers have done in the absence of payment: noticed multiple
egregious examples of ignoring rather large problems with his
hypothesis and concluded that Jones is more interested in scoring
debating points than he is in science in this instance.

That's too bad, you convinced me!

Even govt. propaganda

Even govt. propaganda artists can get it right. It's not enough to point to his dubious employer and dismiss him on that basis. Why not deal with his arguments?

The analysis from the Mitretek guy includes at least one common strawman:

"Jones suggests that the buildings were collapsed by radio-controlled detonations using thermite and explosives, but he doesn't appear to understand that controlled collapse using explosives in every case of which I'm aware requires that the building be largely gutted..."

Oh, so you can't blow up a building unless it's gutted first?

This is of course what one does in a standard controlled implosion contract job. It's not a secret, it's not a surprise, and the contractors are concerned about liability. They have time, they gut the building, they drill holes in the columns, make sure the collapse will be perfect.

But this hardly precludes blowing up a building without all these preliminaries and precautions.

The mistake that people on both sides of this issue make is to refer to the hypothesis that explosives caused the Twin Tower collapses as "controlled demolition," suggesting a standard implosion job.

Of course, even if they were demolished, "controlled" is not an accurate description of what happened to the Twin Towers. Explosives were detonated floor by floor or every few floors starting from the impact zone going downwards. Debris was ejected hundreds of feet away from the footprint (about 1/3 of the mass landed outside the footprints).

Thus it is inaccurate to call it a "controlled demolition." Which does not in any way rule out that explosives were used to destroy the Towers. Just not in the conventional way.

For an example of what a conventional controlled demolition normally looks like, review footage of the WTC 7 collapse.


Can you guys believe this???

Can you guys believe this??? This thing is blowing wide open, what a week!!!

from the LC2E review: "Just

from the LC2E review:

"Just moments before writing this review, I was sitting at my computer desk wondering what my children will learn when they are taught about the days of 9/11. I don't want them to learn something that may not be true. I want them to learn the truth about the world they live in."

The truth about the world we live in?
That's a bloody journey, I'll promise, as I had some touring behind me.

911 is only one small aspect of all the lies around us.

Ever since the invention of reign some thousands years ago the reign works the same way. Nothing has really changed. It's still about anger against the reign, but without handed down history of the anger and the knowlegde about the hidden plain systematically principle how reign works, nobody will ever reveal that we are still slaves. And if we don't have this insight, we never can do anything about this situation.

Only we, the people, can do anything about it- if we change our status as slaves and turn to free men with own charge for our actions and the refusal of all "We work in your name, trust us and give us your power, money, minds- shit. Even if it comes as democratic way of works.

There is no thing like a democracy.
It's a contradiction in it. The people can not reign about itselves. They need surrogates, "elected" representatives. And would you trust an unknown men your money? Why you do this with senate and congress?

It's all about newspeak for your mind. Never ever in the whole life someone can rule in your name.

And: Power makes corrupt. Ever.

Nuff anarcho-stuff said.

There is a very significant

There is a very significant anniversary coming up in a few months. It's the ten year anniversary of TWA Flight 800, which killed all 230 on board near Long Island. And I am willing to bet, the same people who were ultimately responsible for the collapse of the Twin Towers also were responsible for the downing of TWA Flight 800. Flight 800 is extremely important in understanding how government coverups work...because in that case, the overwhelming ocean of evidence pointed toward a missle bringing it down, and very little to no evidence to support the official story. The fact no media outlet has had the balls to out the full truth on TWA Flight 800 in ten years shows that when it comes to 9/11, the truth may never be fully known in the mainstream. Not unless some consciences start kicking in.

Blogger bares Rumsfeld's

Blogger bares Rumsfeld's post 9/11 orders:


Jones' paper debunk from

Jones' paper debunk from chemist (from usenet):

According to Jones' web site, the paper is scheduled for publication
in "The Hidden History of 9-11-2001, Research in Political Economy."
Jones has stated that the reviewers included a physicist and an

The curious thing to me is that in his statement, Jones is quoted as
adding the qualifier, "I now understand." Nearly every review of
journal articles I've submitted has come back with comments that
clearly come from individuals who understand the subject. If Jones
didn't understand the moment he read the reviews that they were
provided by someone with a strong technical background, that suggests
to me that the reviewers didn't raise some rather obvious points (see
below). The editors of the volume apparently share Prof. Jones
conclusion, so there is a non-trivial potential that they picked
reviewers who were likely to share the same viewpoint. Peer-reviewed
is better than not reviewed at all, but there is an art to picking the
reviewers. A reputable journal editor would almost certainly have
given the manuscript for review to some of the experts cited by Jones,
who would almost certainly have questioned some of the claims in the

I was able to find the text of the BYU press release at:

and Wikipedia includes quotes from the Chairman of BYU's Department of
Civil and Environmental Engineering:

I wouldn't exactly say that this amounts to "debunking" Jones
hypothesis. Nevertheless, I would say that Jones is not exactly good science here. He states his hypothesis, and he cherry-picks facts that appear to support his hypothesis. That may be an effective debating tool, but it's not good science. If one is doing science, one is obligated to look for and present evidence against the hypothesis.

For starters, Jones assumes that a 0.6 second delay from what he
asserts would be the time required for a building to free-fall is too
short to allow for a fire-induced pancake collapse. There is zero
analysis to support this assumption; it may or may not be valid, but
I'd like to see reference to an engineering analysis of such a
collapse that supported his assumption.

Another assumption is that a building collapsing into it's own
footprint is inconsistent with the "Law of increasing entropy when due
to random causes." However, Jones cites as "proof" of this assertion
the collapse of buildings due to earthquakes. Might buildings in
earthquakes tend to collapse asymmetrically because the ground is
shaking underneath them in a non-random fashion?

Jones asserts that air expulsion due to collapsing floors is
"excluded" because the interval between puffs is longer than the time
required for one floor to free-fall to the next. He gives the equation
for acceleration due to gravity, which could be valid only for time to
collapse the first floor; I suspect that the first floor to go
actually took somewhat longer to collapse because it was not in free
fall. However, the equation is inadequate to explain the collapse of
the next floor, because the building above that point is now falling,
and therefore there are forces other than gravity to consider.

Jones suggests that the buildings were collapsed by radio-controlled
detonations using thermite and explosives, but he doesn't appear to
understand that controlled collapse using explosives in every case of
which I'm aware requires that the building be largely gutted, and that
the thermite chemical reaction requires a few seconds to melt metal,
so this alternative explanation has even bigger timing problems than
the "government explanation" he dismissed.

I really don't have the time or the energy to go through every detail
of Jones' paper. As another poster to this thread, who is a registered
professional engineer has explained, one can get a full review once
one's check clears. I suspect that I have done what other scientists
and engineers have done in the absence of payment: noticed multiple
egregious examples of ignoring rather large problems with his
hypothesis and concluded that Jones is more interested in scoring
debating points than he is in science in this instance.


Dr. George O. Bizzigotti Telephone: (703) 610-2115
Mitretek Systems, Inc. Fax: (703) 610-1558
3150 Fairview Park Drive South E-Mail: gbizzigo@mitretek.org
Falls Church, Virginia, 22042-4519

The OKC Bombing thing is

The OKC Bombing thing is interesting....but...if Mcveigh was a patsy or had accomplises, why didnt his lawyer go above and beyond to make a big stink about it...why did Mcveigh in the end take the rap..and why did that guy from Arizona who got 10 years for knowing the plot in advance, not also know others would have been involved? At least with the 1993 WTC bombing, there is tapes proving FBI agents allowed it to go forward.

And we still await the

And we still await the official explanation for the collapse of WTC7 which wasn't mentioned in the official 911 report.

The 9/11 Commission Ommissions are "the smoking gun."

Take Professor Jones out of the mix and the weight of contradicting evidence still begs a truly independent investigation of 9/11.

Dr. BusybodyÂ’s motives

Dr. BusybodyÂ’s motives for his cheesy critique of Jones are as suspect as his address--Falls Church, VA--a choice suburb of Washington, DC for those in the military/industrial complex.

Re: Dr. Bizzigotti &

Re: Dr. Bizzigotti & Mitretek Systems, Inc. vs Jones.

Found this on Mitretek's website:

"We assist all levels of government and other organizations in fulfilling missions that benefit the public in the areas of counterterrorism, criminal justice, environment, health, energy, homeland security, space, toxicology, transportation, and telecommunications."

Gov't propaganda artists. Enough said.

President Bush said that we

President Bush said that we need to liberate the people of Iran from tyranical rule.

Pursident Bush is the best pursident we done ever had.

Don't mention the war: BBC

Don't mention the war: BBC plan for surviving nuclear armageddon


"In the event of all-out nuclear war, the BBC was to distract the nation by broadcasting a mix of music and light entertainment shows, secret papers released by the Home Office reveal..."

Have to be some real good programs :)


the real history.

the real history.

"The analysis from the

"The analysis from the Mitretek guy includes at least one common strawman"

There are more strawmen in there than in an Iowa cornfield.

"A Busy Gotti" LOL

Regarding the debunk of Dr

Regarding the debunk of Dr Jones paper:

When I found out someone I was corresponding with (on usenet) was a PE, working in the structural engineering field, I had asked for a professional debunk. (This PE believes WTC 7 collapsed from, cough.. cough.. "fire", btw.) He had the nerve to request $95 an hour in advance for his shotty work!

Then this other guy (Dr George B) responds. But he's a chemist. Oh well.

I'm working on a followup letter to the 650 structural engineering/physics professors that I emailed last month. Maybe if they watch Jones' semimar on google video they'll be more inclined to speak up

Yes CB, I think many more

Yes CB, I think many more engineering, physics, architecture, even political science profs. etc., should be supporting 9/11 truth. I wonder why they're not?

Why isn't Loose Change 2nd

Why isn't Loose Change 2nd Edition available on Amazon.com? Does any one know the reason?

Perhaps because it's free

Perhaps because it's free and not for sale??

Alex Jones of Prison Planet

Alex Jones of Prison Planet calls the Village Voice artilce a hit piece.


Regarding Flight 93, I

Regarding Flight 93, I remember it was reported in the news that one of the hijacked planes had been shot down. This was reported as a rumour only, and was later withdrawn.

If there is one thing I

If there is one thing I learned in my four years of dealing with the issues of 9/11 is never believe in absoluteness. I am sure there were contingency plans that at least had dual backup at every phase. For example:

Did the WTC towers fall from thermite or a mini h-bomb?

Why should it be exclusive? Why not both? There were characteristics of both.

What hit the Pentagon? Was it a Global Hawk or an A-3 jet. It does not matter which. The question should be, What makes three exit holes three rings in? Sometimes psychopaths tell the truth. In this case, I belive Rumsfeld told us what hit the Pentagon, three missles.

"It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the MISSILE to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them." --- Donald Rumsfeld answering Parade Magazine reporter Lyric Wallwork Winik in Pentagon Press Conference Oct.12, 2001. (Posted on the Pentagon website)


Yes, ARecon. It's like when

Yes, ARecon. It's like when detectives examine a corpse. They need not prove the precise cause of death to show it was murder and not natural causes.

Loads of circumstantial evidence demonstrates that 9/11 was (mostly or entirely) an inside job. We just need a real, honest investigation to expose the coverup.

Harry Belafonte just jumped

Harry Belafonte just jumped on board with 9/11 Truth at the "State of the Black Union 2006: Defining the Agenda". It's on C-SPAN right now.

He said "If Osama was responsible"...

I've posted this over at

I've posted this over at Dailykos.com. Come on over and recommend, vote, and comment on it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/25/154011/415

If you don't have an account, you can't comment or vote for 24 hours. You might as well create an account anyway because i'm sure in the future there will be a lot more post to comment on over at dailykos.com.

pockybot, Re: OKC, The judge


Re: OKC,

The judge wouldn't allow a "big stink".

Here is some recommended reading:


You guys know I have no shame pimping my own drivel here so;


I find it highly ironic that Louis Feeh says, (I'm paraphrasing) "If only we had known about ABLE DANGER..."

And yet, he let Andy the German walk right out of this country.

Parse that.

"Regarding Flight 93, I

"Regarding Flight 93, I remember it was reported in the news that one of the hijacked planes had been shot down. This was reported as a rumour only, and was later withdrawn."

I remember that. In fact, one of my co-workers told me that she heard "on the radio" that 93 had been shot down.

I know, 'he-said-she-said'. But still, I've never forgotten that.

Howard Stern was on air on

Howard Stern was on air on Sept.11 talking about how Flight 93 was most likely shot down.i remember that clearly.

he has since said on his

he has since said on his show that he thinks the Pentagon might have been hit by something else.




seriously though, click the

seriously though, click the link and watch the Immortal Technique video.its fuckin raw.

Ian C. I recommended your

Ian C. I recommended your DKos diary. Good luck man that place is full of people who are in some serious denial.

1) Bush fought against the

1) Bush fought against the creation of the commission.

2) The commission was compromised from the beginning to favor Buh.

3) No one has benefitted more from 9/11 than Bush.

Three simple facts that show the Bush Administration is guilty.

Hey Chris you're right,

Hey Chris you're right, great link! I'm gonna watch the 47-minute facethefacts.wmv later. Here, this is very good:

30-minute Homeland Hiphop (9/11 music)

did you watch the Immortal

did you watch the Immortal Technique video Frank? its so friggin great.



That's the original version of "Why We Fight". I recommend everyone watch it. This version was originally aired on the BBC in 2005. Sony has since purchased the movie for the theaters... It doesn't speak of 9/11 being an inside job, but it points you in that direction... much like "Hijacking Catastrophe".

Have you guys seen this yet?

Have you guys seen this yet?

The YBBS Video Collection

Thanks for the link to the

Thanks for the link to the YBBS video collection. I put it on my Mozilla Firefox bookmark toolbar!

It will come in handy for posting links on my local Zionist owned forum. (All of my posts are deleted within a few minuets)

"America: From Freedom to

"America: From Freedom to Fascism"

Not exactly a 911 Truth flick but this new documentary sounds good.

It´s about the Fed, the IRS, and police state/NWO matters. Ruppert´s in it among others.


Nick Nack Paddy Whacked was

Nick Nack Paddy Whacked was way beyond too cool. Music adapted from the 70's for a building icon built in the 70's. It is amazing how much information is condensed into a great piece of art. And those powerful images in contrast mimic the duality of these Orwellian times. I downloaded the file and played it on my laptop with one of those FM transmitters plugged into the audio out and played the track on my Dolby surround system with Bose speakers. Thanks for posting this. If the format was in DVD I would make copies to give out. I know a video bar in town that would play it.

Poor Tom, Seventh Son, Always knew what's goin on-

Led Zepplin


thanks for the YBBS

thanks for the YBBS link.

now we get ricin at the univ. to keep up the terror scare.

"It's all about the money,

"It's all about the money, Dick!"

-Sean Penn in 'The Assassination of Richard Nixon'

Air America/Mike Malloy is

Air America/Mike Malloy is repeating the David Ray Griffin segment tonight, Saturday, Feb 25.


Again, I've got a copy of

Again, I've got a copy of loose change 2 streaming from google on my homepage. Over 2000 people have visited the page the past two weeks.

I have no commercial interest in this. Following the teachings of Patrick Henry.


More comments on Dr George B

More comments on Dr George B debunk of Jones' paper

It has been suggested by "A Busy Gotti?" that Dr George B's dubunk contains strawmen. While I'm not trying to defend Dr B's debunk in any way, I would like to make the following two points:

1. He is a chemist, not an engineer. Is it possible that he's looking at the paper from a different perspective? He might not necessarily know what information is relevant.

2. Perhaps he debunked irrelevant information because, that's all there is in Jones's paper to debunk??? :-) :-)

Any thoughts on this??

People are linking to Loose

People are linking to Loose Change 2E, which is asking people to spend 90 minutes of their time for...most people dont have that sort of patience. I found a pretty solid minute and a half long video that shows pretty conclusively WTC7 was brought down by explosives...this is the short kind of link that could be seen by many more people:

"That's the original version

"That's the original version of 'Why We Fight'. I recommend everyone watch it..."

When former Pres. Dwight Eisenhower warns us to "beware of the military industrial complex" in his fairwell speech, you have to be alarmed! (Old "Ike" wasn't exactly an anti-establishment dove, you know.) This is one key idea shown in "Why We Fight"

The original wording for his

The original wording for his speech was, "The Military Intelligence Industrial Complex". Dwight scratched out the word "Intelligence".

Chris, I was raised on Led

Chris, I was raised on Led Zeppelin, so I prefer rock and roll generally. Although I and many friends absolutely love the Hiphop mp3 I linked above. Including IT's performance therein, "Cause of Death". That 30 minute Hiphop track is a classic 9/11 mp3 with my gang, going on about 2 years now. Here's another relevant and good (but 2003) hiphop video-and-mp3:

I watched facethefacts.wmv and the history video... these are montages from various documentaries, sort of mini- "9/11 perspectives" (from 911busters.com). Well-done, but not much point in spending time on if you've seen the documentaries.

Speakin of Led Zep, Hi AmandaReconwith! I too love that Nick Nack!! Talk about trance-formation!! And the way it flashes all those articles is like taunting the sleepy: "Where you been?!"

Jon, kick-ass video list!!

Thanks everyone for your succinct contributional snippets. This is a great bunch here.