Beginning of the Week Open Thread

I have been out of pocket all weekend, but will catch up on the emails, etc. tomorrow night. In the future please send in news to the news feedback link on the left, and not directly to myself or somebigguy, just in case either of us our out of town, etc.

Open thread, have at it!



Reposting... 8000 WTC


8000 WTC Photos

I apologize if it's nothing new. Still downloading..

On March 18, Stop the

On March 18, Stop the “war on terrorism” by exposing the 911 Inside Job.

^Credit to WRH

Why is accepting that 911 is an inside job so hard for so many Americans to accept? If they believed this administration lied to the American people to get us to support a war with Iraq than why not believe that this government would lie to the American people about what happened on 911? Why can you believe one set of lies and not another?

FREE SEX!!! Listen. I just

FREE SEX!!! Listen. I just got done listening to David Ray Griffins lecture in NYC from 10/05. This is the first time I got around to this due to computer problems no longer an issue. This is in my opinion the most important presentation we have to this point with the power to shatter the illusion of the big lie concerning the events of 911. With proper video illistrations and pictures I think this video will be the most effective tool to get thru to beleivers of the official conspiracy theory. I have it in me to make one more attempt to reach out to certain indiviuals in my life (not by choice) that I to this point have not been able to get thru to. I feel this video will be more effective than showing them 5-6-7 hours of other previously available 911 truth videos. The lecture is explosive and I can imagine the impact it will have with the appropriate video and pictorial evidence. The question and answer piece is excellent as well as David gets into very common sense opinions on why this has been covered up, Popular Mechanics lies, etc. He also adresses the 911 truth infighting with great advice everyone should read and take to heart. Anyone who does not support the controlled demolition of the WTC argument is a fraud. This is all that really matters to prove the case. All the other speculitive issues are insignificant in comparison. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS DVD RELEASE ALREADY? I hope this comes out non-copyrited because this is the one we need to get out strong. I would definately spend my own cash getting these duplicated and personally distribute it. I WANT ANSWERS!. dz you should put this in the download archive and consider doing a headline with Griffins advice about this infighting. I dont care about the plane/no plane bullshit (pardon my French).

Silverstein frets about

Silverstein frets about getting the job done in his lifetime (rebuild the WTC

Can Silverstein come out in

Can Silverstein come out in the day light? I've heard that Rove's skin burns when exposed to sunshine.

How about taking over CNN,

How about taking over CNN, and reporting REAL news?


by William Cullen Bryant

Once this soft turf, this rivulet's sands,
Were trampled by a hurrying crowd,
And fiery hearts and armed hands
Encountered in the battle-cloud.

Ah! never shall the land forget
How gushed the life-blood of her brave-
Gushed, warm with hope and courage yet,
Upon the soil they fought to save.

Now all is calm, and fresh, and still;
Alone the chirp of flitting bird,
And talk of children on the hill,
And bell of wandering kine, are heard.

No solemn host goes trailing by
The black-mouthed gun and staggering wain;
Men start not at the battle-cry,
Oh, be it never heard again!

Soon rested those who fought; but thou
Who minglest in the harder strife
For truths which men receive not now,
Thy warfare only ends with life.

A friendless warfare! lingering long
Through weary day and weary year,
A wild and many-weaponed throng
Hang on thy front, and flank, and rear.

Yet nerve thy spirit to the proof,
And blench not at thy chosen lot.
The timid good may stand aloof,
The sage may frown- yet faint thou not.

Nor heed the shaft too surely cast,
The foul and hissing bolt of scorn;
For with thy side shall dwell, at last,
The victory of endurance born.

Truth, crushed to earth, shall rise again;
Th' eternal years of God are hers;
But Error, wounded, writhes in pain,
And dies among his worshippers.

Yea, though thou lie upon the dust,
When they who helped thee flee in fear,
Die full of hope and manly trust,
Like those who fell in battle here.

Another hand thy sword shall wield,
Another hand the standard wave,
Till from the trumpet's mouth is pealed
The blast of triumph o'er thy grave.

Please pause before using

You guys aren't gonna

You guys aren't gonna believe this...

Members Of The 9/11 Commission Bribed?

Need another source or two

Need another source or two on that potentially, well, very important info JG

Looking for a source now...

Looking for a source now...

Ok... I'm at work, so I

Ok... I'm at work, so I don't have the time to look, but could someone try and verify this, or find another source for it? At least verify that a meeting took place with PAC...

Here are two examples of

Here are two examples of fake UA175 photographs I quickly made in Photoshop using Flight Simulator to generate the correct image of a Boeing 767. It took about 1 hour to manufacture each image and they aren't particularly convincing, but it does demonstrate that photographic forgery is achievable for the layman.

If this is what can be achieved by a novice Photoshop user in an evening then imagine what a skilled team of professional forgers could achieve in a few days.

If someone can find the #

If someone can find the # for the Friday Times in Pakistan, I'll call and speak to the editor. If they speak English. I want to talk to this reporter...

AmandaReconwith... You are

AmandaReconwith... You are really pushing the idea that planes didn't hit the towers... I find it odd that there suddenly seems to be a push for the most controversial "theory" in the 9/11 Truth Movement. I'm seeing mention of the "Blue Screen" all over the place, and the word, "Holograms". There is some kind of "Coordinated Effort" taking place it seems.

For those who are interested in the idea that planes did not strike the towers, don't be. Planes struck the towers, period.

"The founding document of COINTELPRO directed FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these dissident movements and their leaders."

I don't know if this is what's happening, but it certainly makes sense. just posted the just posted the bribery story...

Raw Story linked to an

Raw Story linked to an original, an Indian paper citing the Pakistani story, at

That counts as another source, along with Raw Story. This seems fairly important. Great catch, Jon

Rawstory posted to the same

Rawstory posted to the same source I did... still only one source...

Incidentally... "Fairly

Incidentally... "Fairly Important"?!?!?! :)


I didn't know investigations

I didn't know investigations could be manipulated through lobbying.

"It claimed that some of the

"It claimed that some of the commission members were also bribed to prevent them from including damaging information about Pakistan."

That is HUGE...

re: "fairly important,"

re: "fairly important," toungue in cheek

RE: David Ray Griffin's

RE: David Ray Griffin's lecture in NYC from 10/05.

Is this lecture already on the web somewhere? Is it just audio or is it video too? Please give more details on this. Thanks.

It's available Anonymous...

It's available Anonymous... and soon may be posted by dz...

Off topic for a moment -

Off topic for a moment - Earlier media postings are sometimes questioned because no ever knows if they are onside with the 9/11 truth movement or not. But lets remember they are Cover Your Ass articles. They can't afford to be seen as for or against. The last most recent posting was especially ambiguous even though the writer suggests he believes in 9/11 truth. The big prob is a Scariness issue. To me, 9/11 itself was a frightening event ( and to the world at large). More frightening however, is 9/11 truth. That's why the media won't touch it. It must be impressed upon them (the MSM, bloggers, antiwar movement) that there is something much much worse. Marching off into World War III for fear of speaking the truth and the lies that got us there. That scares me ten times more.

Way to go Jon on the article. I'll be blogging about it today as I'm sure everyone else is.

Is there anyway to get 9/11 truthers out to the antiwar demos? They are really beginning to disgust me with their simplemindedness and resistance to the larger picture.

Gold--"I didn't know

Gold--"I didn't know investigations could be manipulated through lobbying."

Extremely well-said, Mr. Gold. This is outrageous!

...Word going round that

...Word going round that Jack Abramoff was Pakistan's registered lobbyist.... ................. ........

Thanks... If I'm ever


If I'm ever arrested, I'm going to ask my father to pay lobbyists to influence the jurors.

Frank... confirmation?

Frank... confirmation?

All that glimmers is not

All that glimmers is not Gold.

You are very correct in your statement of Pentagon PsyOps.

AmandaReconwith... Aren't

AmandaReconwith... Aren't you interested in the fact that members of the 9/11 Commission may have been bribed?

That's a MASSIVE story that

That's a MASSIVE story that should floor most people, yet, AmandaReconwith is still pushing the no-plane theory. Interesting.

Incidentally, are you

Incidentally, are you telling me Led Zeppelin was wrong when they said, "There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold"?

Jon, _____|snip|_____ Jack

Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist at the center of a federal corruption investigation, led a Congressional delegation to Pakistan in 1997 but failed to tell the group's sponsor or the lawmakers that he was a registered lobbyist for the Pakistani government, according to the sponsor and the two House members on the trip.

.... in other breaking news.....

March 13, 2006
An angry federal judge unexpectedly recessed the death penalty trial of al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui to consider whether government violations of her rules against coaching witnesses should remove the death penalty as an option.
The stunning development came at the opening of the fifth day of the trial as the government informed the judge and the defense over the weekend that a lawyer for the Federal Aviation Administration had coached four government FAA witnesses.

Nice. Thanks Frank.

Nice. Thanks Frank.

my two cents... A lot of

my two cents...

A lot of truthers go to anti-war demonstrations...

Washington D.C. Anti-War Rally - 9/24/2005 - Pictures Inside

When's the next "big" one?

It should be the other way

It should be the other way around though... as opposed to having an "Anti-War Rally" where truthers show up, they should have a "9/11 Truth Rally" where the anti-war people show up.

What came first, the chicken

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I believe that planes did

I believe that planes did hit the towers and the Pentagon -- but what planes, is a different question. I found the following discussion of this by Morgan Reynolds pretty solid:

The South Tower does appear cheese-like in the crash video. I also find it difficult to understand how the relatively fragile fuselage and wings could have penetrated the exterior walls, and even so that no parts of the planes bounced off the walls onto the streets below. Then, after piercing through the wall, the planes abruptly stop and are completely destroyed inside the towers. I can't avoid thinking that there is a contradiction here.

Or were the planes completely destroyed inside? Anyone know if there are witness statements of plane parts inside the towers?

Vesa... next time you see a

Vesa... next time you see a 'write-up' about the 9/11 Truth Movement, and see something like, "Their theories range from "Holograms" to "Missiles" hitting the Pentagon. No wonder they're not taken seriously." Ask yourself how statements like that come to be.

"A nation that is afraid to

"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." - John F. Kennedy

What do you think would happen if the world became aware that there were no hijacked planes that day, that two of the flights didn't exist, that the towers were attacked with secret technology, that the horrifying image which people saw on TV was just a movie, and that media also faked lists of passengers on the non existent flight which didn't hit the North tower, that a missile of some sort was fired into the pentagon and that fake videos and fake eyewitness reports were concocted to try to sell the story?

that the 911 commission was

that the 911 commission was possibly bribed doesn't seem all that surprising to me - it should be a front and center smoking gun, but then again so should a lot of things that the media tends to downplay or even ignore altogether - is our society really becoming that pathetic or has it always been so and only now are we realizing it?


Is it any wonder then that such human scum would get together and work "the system" to set themselves up as kings, dispensing with the pretty coverings of Constitutional limitations that trip their crimes like a prom dress? Taking as much as they can, while keeping YOU ASLEEP AS YOU LET YOURSELF BE SEDUCED AND PUT ASLEEP BY THEIR FELLOW TRAVELLERS IN THE MEDIA AND CORPORATE BOARDS?

Vesa, I remember reading one


I remember reading one eyewitness statement about plane parts in one of the toweres just after one of the crashes. It's been over two years since I read it and can't remember which site I saw it on.

The witness was a woman with an Asian sounding name and she stated that she was within 20-50 feet of a wing which then caught fire. I think she also said she was the only one in her work unit to get out alive.

sorry, that was supposed to

sorry, that was supposed to be a link - -

plane parts - 911 street

plane parts -
911 street engine

"What do you think would

"What do you think would happen if the world became aware that there were no hijacked planes that day, that two of the flights didn't exist, that the towers were attacked with secret technology, that the horrifying image which people saw on TV was just a movie, and that media also faked lists of passengers on the non existent flight which didn't hit the North tower, that a missile of some sort was fired into the pentagon and that fake videos and fake eyewitness reports were concocted to try to sell the story?"

You're going to state this as fact?

What's The Difference

Just found this site

Just found this site recently and would like to thank those who put it together. I have been in construction and building for over 25 years. If I built a 10 story structure that was hit by a plane on the upper stories caught fire but did not burn down and a few hours after impact the whole building explodes and free falls in to dust and small pieces right in front of myself and the owner any claims of inadequate construction would be a joke for an insurance investigator. Buildings do not collapse that way unless they are demolished on purpose.WTC7 well that is just a farce to anyone in construction that has seen the video of that collapse.

Thanks FrankV. You beat me

Thanks FrankV. You beat me to it on the breaking Moussaoui news. The FAA coaching witnesses no less!

Anti-war demos this weekend Jon! Third anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. Hollywood, Sat. Mar. 18, 12 noon. ANSWER & World Can't Wait will converge on the corner of Hollywood & Vine. David Ray Griffin and Cindy Sheehan have both said this is going to take a massive mobilization of people in the streets. C'mon Truthers, suit up and show up! And bring a sign, DVDs and flyers. This ain't a one-man-show ya know. (Sometimes I feel like it is)

Welcome RC. You're in the

Welcome RC. You're in the right place!

the disinfo agents are

the disinfo agents are getting more worried. For the past 2 to 3 weeks, every entry on this page has been hijacked by holograms and blue screens. why? cuz we stopped talking about pods? cuz we only want to look at the demolitions? AND i find it amazing that after the link to the 9-11 commission being bribed by Pakistan that they kept commenting on videos of planes instead of this amazing admission.

i'm not labeling anyone as disinfo here but it is quite clear those that are, are having an affect on this group...because they continually change the course of each and every topic to their own theories of holograms and fake planes...and still no proof!

why do they continue to inject this crap into the movement when most people can't get their head wrapped around the Big Lie in the first place? because they don't want the truth to be known!!!

i'm not asking anyone to be banned but damn let's just not respond to it. We've all done pretty well in regards to blimp....i mean i can remember when this blog first started and Jon, dz, blimp and SBG and i would actually discuss what Blimp was saying, but i've seen most of his (or her) comments come and go without any response...which is good!

why, with the video of the plane hitting the 2nd tower and countless eyewitnesses, do they harp on the issue that all planes were not real? to distract us from the fact that no plane was at the pentagon? to distract us from flight 93 being shot down? or in the same way the planes were used in the actual distract us from the fact that there were bombs in the building?

let's be straight, i do not wish to attack those in the movement who seek the truth. i am attacking those who seek to distract us from the truth.

"Anti-war demos this weekend

"Anti-war demos this weekend Jon! Third anniversary of the invasion of Iraq."

i'll be at the San Francisco event with DVD's.

9-11 Truth Contingent- San Francisco Anti-War Rally
March 18, Civic Center, 11 a.m.

Join the Northern California 9-11 Truth Alliance's contingent at the rally and march. We have banners, signs, hand-outs, a sound system, 9-11 T Shirts. We will gather under the big Deception Dollar banner, where the 9-11 table is located.

Thanks Randy. In all honesty

Thanks Randy. In all honesty this site is like fresh air to me. So many in denial it is shocking what people refuse to see.

RayRayJones hit it on the

RayRayJones hit it on the head, we're on to something, the whole movement is focusing on controlled demo, and only those with alterior motives will try to distract us.

Don't fall for it, there is much to do...

cuz we only want to look at

cuz we only want to look at the demolitions?

so look at them already! - there are no disinfo agents here.

Are we looking for truth or

Are we looking for truth or are we looking for a "safe" truth?

All the negative things said that label people are very similar to the tactics used in the past against the 911 Truth movement as a whole. It wasn't that long ago, we should remember.

Assuming deceitful motives on the part of people holding different views is tempting but fruitless. Be aware that Memes will often spread on their own, especially if there is some truth in them.

For me, it's highly annoying that activists waste time by focusing on the negative. Michael Rivero did it again today at He got suckered by that headline "Don't Allow the Crackpots to Take Over 9/11" which apparently was added on by an editor over the head of the writer.

It's really freakin stupid to focus on your pet peeves. There's so much else to talk about.

While I understand that some people are trying to take the topic mainstream. They should realize that others only seek the truth.

Now collect your evidence, get out there, do something and quit yer bitchin.

P.S. thanks Vesa for the feedback from the "Crackpot" article's author

figuring out how to

figuring out how to circumvent the mcmedia might be a good idea ~ for whatever reasons they seem to have a vested interest in covering up.

"Vesa... next time you see a

"Vesa... next time you see a 'write-up' about the 9/11 Truth Movement, and see something like, 'Their theories range from 'Holograms' to 'Missiles' hitting the Pentagon. No wonder they're not taken seriously.' Ask yourself how statements like that come to be."

I'm sorry, Jon, but I see no reason to restrict my thinking. I think Reynolds makes valid points in his article I linked above, and he is *not* saying that holograms were used. (Actually, he says he is skeptical of the hologram theory.) Have *you* read the article?

Regarding the Pentagon crash, I do not believe it was a missile because of the pattern of the lamp posts knocked down:
(see the illustration in the middle of the page)

But I strongly suspect it was a smalle rand more maneuverable plane than a big passenger aircraft. Here's what a pilot writes about the (im)possibility of flying a passenger plane a few feet above terrain:

"I shanÂ’t get into the aerodynamic impossibility of flying a large commercial jetliner 20 feet above the ground at over 400 MPH. A discussion on ground effect energy, tip vortex compression, downwash sheet reaction, wake turbulence, and jetblast effects are beyond the scope of this article (the 100,000-lb jetblast alone would have blown whole semi-trucks off the roads.)

Let it suffice to say that it is physically impossible to fly a 200,000-lb airliner 20 feet above the ground at 400 MPH.

The author, a pilot and aeronautical engineer, challenges any pilot in the world to do so in any large high-speed aircraft that has a relatively low wing-loading (such as a commercial jet). I.e., to fly the craft at 400 MPH, 20 feet above ground in a flat trajectory over a distance of one mile.

Why the stipulation of 20 feet and a mile? There were several street light poles located up to a mile away from the Pentagon that were snapped-off by the incoming aircraft; this suggests a low, flat trajectory during the final pre-impact approach phase. Further, it is known that the craft impacted the PentagonÂ’s ground floor. For purposes of reference: If a 757 were placed on the ground on its engine nacelles (I.e., gear retracted as in flight profile), its nose would be almost 20 above the ground! Ergo, for the aircraft to impact the ground floor of the Pentagon, Hanjour would have needed to have flown in with the engines buried 10-feet deep in the Pentagon lawn. Some pilot.

At any rate, why is such ultra-low-level flight aerodynamically impossible? Because the reactive force of the hugely powerful downwash sheet, coupled with the compressibility effects of the tip vortices, simply will not allow the aircraft to get any lower to the ground than approximately one half the distance of its wingspan—until speed is drastically reduced, which, of course, is what happens during normal landings.

In other words, if this were a Boeing 757 as reported, the plane could not have been flown below about 60 feet above ground at 400 MPH. (Such a maneuver is entirely within the performance envelope of aircraft with high wing-loadings, such as ground-attack fighters, the B1-B bomber, and Cruise missiles—and the Global Hawk.)"

The Griffin NYC 10/05 audio

The Griffin NYC 10/05 audio is available on this site. Just go thru the Febuary archive and youll run into the link for both hour one and two. It is killer! I feel David is the most compelling speaker and even your Grandma would love him. Focusing on the destruction of the WTC is the winning hand for this movement. When people learn that they can form thier own opinions on the rest. Lets stick to our guns and ignore these distraction manipulators.

The story about Pakistan

The story about Pakistan bribing the Commission is important, maybe even more so because of the ommission of any mention of the close connections between the CIA and the ISI, and the $100,000 that the Wall Street Journal reported the ISI chief had wired to Atta before 9/11. While it's possible the bribing/lobbying happened, it's already been established that the Commisson was intended to cover up the truth- packed with members with vested interests in obfuscating the truth and preserving this corrupt Establishment and, therefore, their way of life. The Commissioners had motivations far bigger than a measly one-time bribe, even if it was in the millions; they had to be thinking of their careers and long-term future career prospects, investments, etc.

This could be a Pentagon plant, to put attention on Pakistan and away from the Commission's lies. Or someone trying to cause trouble for Pakistan. Or maybe the official that said that was lying to justify the money he blew on lobbying by saying it helped clear Pakistan's name, when really it was the White House-CIA that made sure the Commission didn't cover those connections cuz they knew they lead back to them.

Would love to see this followed up on by someone with balls and integrity, like Madsen or Palast. See 911truth's coverage of this incident: