Open Thread

Took a break to see V for Vendetta.. was definitely worth the time.

Tomorrow starts a new work week, so here is an open thread until the next update.

Have at it!

I posted this on The

I posted this on The Washington Not blog a couple of days re 'V':

I went to see "V for Vendetta" because I read a rave review of the movie on Libertarian internet site, of all places. And I thought, 'Hmmm, if the intelligentsia like this flick..."

But then I saw the thing. It seems designed for a teenage mind with samo-samo Hollywood fight scenes and fabulous explosions. The fractured messages that it contains alluding to our age of bogus terror and government lies are very, very tame indeed.

It seems like films with an obfuscated message are popular in Hollywood right now what with 'Syriana' being lauded highly as well. There was little real intellectual meat in that movie either. Not if you've read books like Nafeez Ahmed's "Behind the War on Terror" and other like it (perhaps more in the mainstream). I could enjoy seeing a film that presents a bit of a puzzle but "V for Vendetta" is just, well, juvenile.

There's no grist for the mill in this movie. Not if you're an avid reader of current events, opinion and polemics of various sorts. Those kinds of articles and films are much more concrete and have been in the public internet domain for some why present a movie that supposedly contains the same material in quasi-code?

You can torrent Eugene Jarecki's "Why We Fight" if you search around. Much better.

Sorry, folks, the emperor has no clothes.

Carl -- appreciate your views, but disagree. I have been thinking about "V" for a full day now -- many embedded, complex themes. I agree with you about Syriana, which I saw and thought was a poor film. I thought Why We Fight was terrific -- though it could have done without Vidal, whom I really like generally but who did nothing helpful for the Jarecki film. I also screened Our Brand is Crisis recently -- and that too is superb. I don't pretend to be a culturally literate reviewer -- but I did like V and think that it does have clothes.

All the best,

Posted by Steve Clemons at March 25, 2006 07:22 PM

Well, I was wrong once. I suppose it could happen again. But, perhaps you could briefly explain just how you think this film IS complex?

It simply borrows from what has been written about overtly and concretely in articles, books and blogs that are polemical. Polemical things haven't been in the deep mainstream until recently. Now, with the growing disenchantment with the Bush Administration, it's ideology and War, polemical ideas are on the rise. Movies like "V" just seem to be shy about it.

I was much more entertained this week by the three-night Charlie Sheen/911 expose on ShowBiz Tonight. Wow! And I've never heard anyone cram so many thoughts into 6 minutes as Alex Jones of What a foghorn. WooHoo! It was like watching a contender preening for the camera - like a prize-fight is brewing in the realm of political ideas and Alex Jones is wearing a cape and grim visage.

But you still can't find any commentary on sites like TWN or HuffPo. Even if you think the 911 debate is nonsense, it's a helluvalot more contentious and interesting than "V for Vendetta".

what do you guys think of

what do you guys think of the insider trading at the chicago board of options exchange, betting that airline stock would fail

The 9/11 Truth Revolution by

The 9/11 Truth Revolution

by Kevin Barrett, Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth:

“It feels like you and I have started the revolution and God bless America.” Charlie Sheen

As 9/11 truth spreads, we are facing a revolution.

A revolution happens when the many at the bottom get together and overthrow the few at the top. At least thatÂ’s the theory. In practice, it isnÂ’t quite that simple. The American Revolution was led by wealthy, well-educated deists, many of them slaveholders. The French Revolution involved the hungry masses, but the instigators were businesspeople, not street people. The Russian Revolution was led by a self-proclaimed vanguard. The anti-imperial revolutions that ended European colonization 50 years ago were led by the coloniesÂ’ Euro-educated elites.

Today, thanks to the rapidly-spreading brushfire of 9/11 truth, we are on the cusp of a new kind of revolution—a real one this time, a revolution from below. As conservative columnist Paul Craig Roberts writes, “the real story is what the people are saying about 9/11.” What Roberts means is that the powerful few and the institutions they control—the government, the corporations, the armed forces, the major political parties, the foundation-funded pseudo-left, the universities, the mass media, Hollywood—have imposed near-total silence on the issue of what really happened on September 11th, 2001. Worse, most of them have cranked out endless tape-loops of mind-numbing propaganda aimed at reinforcing the official Big Lie. And yet the people are speaking out loud and clear: 9/11 was an inside job—an act of high treason and mass murder by our own leaders.

In the latest CNN poll, over 80% of respondents agreed with Charlie Sheen that the official story of 9/11 is a cover-up. Earlier polls showed that half the citizens of New York, the city that was so brutally attacked, and Atlanta, the biggest city in the nationÂ’s most conservative region, believe their leaders guilty of high treason and conspiracy to mass-murder.

Despite the best efforts of the treasonous billionaires who control all of our major institutions, the popular groundswell for 9/11 truth is unstoppable. The people have refused to be cowed into silence by inane fear-mongering and cowardly name-calling. All across the nation people are rising up and talking truth. “Have you seen Loose Change yet?” “That Charlie Sheen is amazing—how could CNN let him say that?” “You’ve got to read The New Pearl Harbor—here’s a copy, pass it on.” People are burning hundreds of DVDs and passing them to their friends, who are burning hundreds more. If the video-makers were getting full royalties on every copy, they’d be richer than self-confessed WTC demolisher and billionaire insurance-fraudster Larry Silverstein.

The source of this revolution is the courage and intelligence of the people. The neoconservatives, who underestimate the intelligence of other people almost as much as they overestimate their own, apparently thought that their monopoly media could coerce the poor dumb masses into lapping up outrageous lies indefinitely. What they didnÂ’t realize was that new communications technologies, in the hands of smart, brave people, can spread the truth with absolutely no help from traditional top-down, one-to-many media systems.

The truth is that people in power are no smarter than the rest of us. They are just greedier. As the French saying goes, “plus haut qu’il mont, plus que se voit son cul” – the higher up he climbs, the more you can see his ass.

This is a moral revolution by ordinary decent folks against the greed-heads who will stop at nothing—not even the mass murder of their own countrymen in the service of a genocidal Big Lie—to gain even more wealth and power.

It is a revolution from below at every level, even in government itself. Dozens of honest agents and bureaucrats, stymied by their treasonous superiors, have spoken out. Colleen Rowley and the other Minneapolis FBI agents have made it abundantly clear that Dave Frasca, the mole and former head of the FBI’s Radical Fundamentalism Unit, intentionally blocked their most intensive efforts to call attention to the “hijacking plot” before it happened. Yet the traitor and mass-murderer Frasca, who stymied not only the Minneapolis agents, but also the Phoenix FBI agents and others, was promoted after 9/11! The many thousands of honest agents in the FBI, disgusted with their superiors’ complicity in high treason and mass murder, are a key part of our revolution from below, and will surely be dealing with the likes of Frasca one way or another.

It is a revolution from below in journalism as well as government. First it was the complete outsiders, the devil-may-care small-time bloggers, the folks at the very bottom of the journalistic food chain. (Note that some of these ultra-outsider bloggers, such as From the Wilderness and Global Research, have been outperforming the “real journalists” on key issues for years.) The outsider bloggers’ incessant agitation put 9/11 truth on the radar screen of the more respectable bloggers and the occasional honest academic. When the highly respected David Griffin’s The New Pearl Harbor came out, compiling and validating the bloggers’ research, low-level people at C-Span began urging their company to report “the other side of the 9/11 story.” The result was the nationwide broadcast of Griffin’s landmark University of Wisconsin talk 9/11 and American Empire last year. Now it appears that the actual working journalists at CNN have followed their C-Span colleagues away from their billionaire bosses’ fantasy land and back toward reality-based journalism, by giving Charlie Sheen a national platform for truth-speaking.

It is a revolution from below in religious communities too. More than a few independent-minded Jews have made major contributions to the 9/11 truth movement, while increasing numbers of evangelical Christians are waking up to 9/11 truth, as the many e-mails we get from them at MUJCA-NET attest. While the self-appointed leaders and Sunday morning money-leeches spew their hatemongering rhetoric at the alleged-WTC-destroying Muslim hordes, whispers are spreading among their flocks: “Wait a minute—look at WTC-7 collapsing, and Silverstein confessing. How the hell did Osama do that?” And in the American Muslim community, the silent majority has always known it was an inside job—but the academics, self-appointed leaders and spokespeople, perfect examples of the Qur’an-derided munafiqeen (hypocrites) who say whatever makes their lives easier, have managed to obscure that fact with their ongoing nicey-nice drivel that implicitly or explicitly accepts the 9/11 Big Lie. After the 9/11 truth revolution, I hope every one of these “leaders” will resign from their cushy positions and look for real work. Indeed, they might be better advised to crawl into a hole somewhere, for the silent contempt in which they are now held by most of their co-religionists will surely grow less silent.

The 9/11truth revolution from below will overthrow a good part of the American power structure. Billionaires will have their fortunes confiscated and spend the rest of their lives in prison. Most, perhaps all of the current administration will be tried and, presumably, either hanged or given some kind of truth-for-mercy deal. Its supporters throughout the judicial and legislative branches will be forced to resign. The CIA and other covert-op apparatuses will be broken into a million pieces and scattered to the four winds, finishing the job that JFK was unable to start. The media monopoly that enabled the 9/11 cover-up will be shattered into hundreds of fragments as the mother of all trust-busting eras commences. The uniformed military, and especially the Pentagon, will be purged of neocon moles, as the venerable institution of the firing squad is revived. Every last member of Skull and Bones, starting with the whole Bush crime family, will be hunted down, jailed, and forced to recite his entire sexual history to his cellmates while lying on the floor of the prison shower. And after the troops have pulled out, Rumsfeld, Perle and Feith will be air-dropped into Fallujah as a demonstration of how an undermanned invasion-of-three can be welcomed by adoring crowds strewing flowers at their feet.

Ultimately, though, the 9/11 truth revolution is not about vengeance—it’s about hope. The story of the triumph of the 9/11 truth movement, against such apparently insurmountable odds, is a story of ordinary people’s heroism, a veritable Frank Capra movie for the information age.

And though this revolution is an American movie, with a cast of thousands of heroes and Charlie Sheen doing an Oscar-worthy job in Best Supporting Role, it’s going to be a worldwide hit. You thought they liked Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 at Cannes? Wait till you see the world’s reaction to 9/11 Truth: The Reality. Other nations used to admire certain things about America—like our relative freedom, integrity, and imperviousness to corruption—and this movie will bring it all back, and then some. Better yet, this is the one American film that could really rock the Casbah in the Arab world. Want to lead the region toward freedom and democracy? Try setting an example. Overthrow your own corrupt leaders, and maybe the Arabs will overthrow theirs. And if you’re tired of being hated by Muslims, what better way to re-establish friendship than by exploding the 9/11 blood libel and calling off the Big-Lie-triggered war on Islam?

The global ramifications of the 9/11 truth revolution go way beyond ending the ersatz “clash of civilizations” manufactured by the fake-terror-mongers. Our American revolution from below will lead a cascading revolution around the world, as the globalist elites are jailed, trust-busted, and discredited, and corrupt leaders are overthrown like rows of rotten dominoes. In the place of th

Just to say thanks again to

Just to say thanks again to 9/11 blogger for the active coverage you've been running of events over the last week.

9/11 is a huge politically in the UK of course, where it has been the backdrop for an entire swathe of policies and means to manufacturer a mandate for misery and I'm very interested in political reaction here.

Holy shit pw that was

Holy shit pw that was beautiful.

the stars seem to be

the stars seem to be aligning with us right now. i don't know why, but they seem to be happening. Tomorrow's NYT is confirming the British memo from a couple of months ago that says Blair was ready and willing to go into Iraq with Bush well before the inspectors finished their search for nothing.

This is the same memo that says Bush thought about painting a US Military plan like the UN and fly it over Iraq in hopes that it would provoke Saddam to shoot at it, and then give us cause to invade.

This shit is tripping me out right now. Why is everything coming together like this?

Yes 84% 42027 votes No 16%

Yes 84% 42027 votes
No 16% 7995 votes
Total: 50022 votes

* PULL IT: Sheen challenges

* PULL IT: Sheen challenges Silverstein on WTC demolition

Call Silverstein Properties at (212) 843-8068 and ask when he will answer Charlie Sheen's challenge to explain himself on pulling WTC buildings.

* Additional 9/11 Tapes to be Released

BTW - 'Vendetta" is on my top 5

- V ;-)

Does Sheen know that

Does Sheen know that Silverstein Properties make a statement last year that they meant pull the "firefighters"?

New York Times front page

New York Times front page tomorrow on Bush's "flying US plane with UN colors" over Iraq

Double Plus Good fellow

Double Plus Good fellow Thought Criminals.

Check front page of

Check front page of for announcement of NY action at CNN on Wednesday!

As for V: Those expecting a "serious" film need to understand that the movie is based on a 1980s comic book. V is like Batman, but he's an anarchist. What prompts him to live for revenge is not a mugger who killed his parents, but a fascist state that raped his world.

The adaptation is faithful, except for changes at the end and the addition of elements that constantly deliver the following message with sledgehammer delivery:

9/11 was an inside job.

Given that, I stop caring if the film is great art or not. I liked it.

Is this not perfect

Is this not perfect timing??

quote from

"The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours," the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach."

Silverstein was on a PBS

Silverstein was on a PBS documentary with a camera on him. He lied about how WTC-7 imploded, because the building was hundreds of feet from the towers & the "scattered fires on several floors" bullshit wasn't cutting it any longer.

Modern, steel-framed buildings do not fall because the over-insured shyster landlord speaks with a fire chief. Firefighters do not demolish/implode buildings.

And if Silverstein meant the firemen should leave the building (not that the fire dept would give a shit what Silverstein thought), he would have said, "pull out" or "pull back", not "pull it." (And there were no firemen in the building at the time, anyway.)

WTC-7 was pre-wired for a controlled demolition, and so were WTC-1 & WTC-2.

of course WTC 1,2,7 were

of course WTC 1,2,7 were professionally imploded, and Silverstein said WTC7 was pulled. But fact is silverstein properties made a statement saying he meant pull the firefighters. Of course he was lying, as there were no firefighters to be pulled out. But it was still said. I'm gonna try to find the URL for this

here we

On the HBO DVD “IN

On the HBO DVD “IN MEMORIAM” (this is different from the Naudet brothers' DVD) at about 37:50, a fireman, & then a cop, say that WTC-7 is in danger of collapsing, and to stay back, etc. Then we are shown some of the other WTC buildings burning heavily. Suddenly, we are cut back to a view of WTC-7, with very heavy smoke at ground level and around one of its sides. Seconds later, WTC-7 begins to implode. (We are not shown WTC-7 long enough before the collapse to determine where the heavy smoke came from. It could well be from explosives that preceded the collapse.)

How could cops & firemen know ahead of time that WTC-7 was going to collapse, if not warned by someone who knew about the "collapsing." (WTC-7 had only small fires on a couple of floors!)

simple.. because bin Laden

simple.. because bin Laden can alter the laws of physics :)

V is a dangerous

V is a dangerous conditioning tool. Have a listen to Gary Bell explain why.

I know, CB. It's amazing the

I know, CB. It's amazing the things they expect us to overlook regarding the world's biggest hoax.

Wow, Kevin Barrett's latest

Wow, Kevin Barrett's latest piece is incredible! dz and somebigguy, please start a thread featuring it.

Got a link to the Kevin

Got a link to the Kevin Barrett piece?

What is being done to

What is being done to maintain this momentum we have? I've been writing comments on many sites that report the interview and sending e-mails. I'm worried that their just gonna stop covering it on Monday and that will be the end of the mainstream coverage again.

The ball is in our court we gotta shoot.



(one Williams F107-400 rated at 600 lbs.thrust)

"Flight 11" was traveling roughly 490 mph (790 km/h)
when it crashed into the north tower, "Flight 175" hit
the south tower at about 590 mph (950 km/h).

Here is a photo of what appears to be a missile exiting WTC2.

Anyone taken a look at the

Anyone taken a look at the sitemeter recently? Passing 80 000..

Doug Powers, a columnist and

Doug Powers, a columnist and author in WorldNetDaily, The American Spectator, and various newspapers and magazines, has a pretty big blog here:
Feel free to educate him & his readers.

I noticed in another thread

I noticed in another thread ("elders", from Saturday) a suggestion (pumping $9.11 of gasoline) for raising the issue of 9/11.

What I've found effective as an ice-breaker is whenever someone perfunctorily wishes you a great day, say, "Why, did the truth break?"

After they figure out what the question means and reflexively say, "What truth?", go for it (tell them "the truth about 9/11!" and pick your favorite unraveling point: collapse times, WTC7, how many of "the 19" (sic) are still alive, Bush's incriminating 9/11 witness statements and the total non-reaction to them by those who supposedly oppose him, etc.)!

For extra credit: see if you can find a way to do it without saying "hijackers" or "plane(s)" or "jet fuel", as such terms all conjure up powerful images in peoples' minds which support the lying government's official version of events and which are, to say the very least, unsubstantiated.

This was a glorious week.

This was a glorious week. I've been a big fan of Alex Jones since I saw him in Waking Life, and I was more than thrilled with his two nights on CNN.

I've also realized that there can be no arguing with people convinced there is no coverup, nor with people convinced of total MIHOP. To argue anything pointing to "Lihop" is to either be claled a crackpot on one side, or blind to the other.

I've learned after two years of extensive research into independent 9/11 investigation that unfortunately a lot of what people hold as gospel is incomplete, incorrect, or false. Of course it goes for the official side.

When people insist that "there was no Arabs", "al Qaeda were just patsies as part of a CIA black ops plan", "there was no passengers on the planes" and "a missle hit the pentagon"...I wonder if the real "truth" will ever come out? And what bothers is is when you do not fully accept "MIHOP" a lot of 9/11 truthers will blast ya like the Bush apologists do, resorting in ad hominen attacks...when I believe the same scrutiny to evidence should be applied to the 9/11 Truth movement.

I feel the truth may not be as elaborate or "sexy" as a lot of people insist. Of course, when everyone has already come to conclusions on both sides, is there any room left for middle ground?

Check out the responses to this:

The people who do not believe in total MIHOP have some damn good articulated
thoughts on the matter.

Oh yes, and V For Vendetta

Oh yes, and V For Vendetta rocks. Loved the part about th epublic debating whether it was government controlled demolition or a terrorist that brought down the first tower. Some damn good quotes in there too.

Also, anyone seen Inside Man? Not to give it away, but the 'secret' of the film is something researches of Bush' randfather, Watson/IBM, Rothchilds, and Henry Ford would love.

Does anyone else get the

Does anyone else get the feeling that these "no planes" theorists are just spinning the story to undermine 9-11 Truth?

Why don't we stick with what is at least provable NOW: controlled demolition of WTC 7 and the twin towers, put options, and debris at the Pentagon that doesn't correspond with a Boeing 757.

Other speculation at this point without first establishing those ideas would seem to be part of a disinformation campaign.

Monsieur le Prof , Go back

Monsieur le Prof ,

Go back and read your post. Note: "debris at the Pentagon that doesn't correspond with a Boeing 757" does not prove anything -- except perhaps that you're a good grounds keeper. So, are you undermining 9-11 Truth? Is that a disinformation campaign? ;-)

We don't KNOW what the real story is, but we all have our pet theories. This includes you, and me, and everyone else here. If you can prove your theory absolutely correct, let's see it. If you can prove my theory is absolutely wrong, let's see your proof. But, short of such proofs, we''re all just doing what we can to figure it all out.

janedoe "If you can prove my


"If you can prove my theory is absolutely wrong, let's see your proof"

Would help if we knew your "pet theory"


Does it matter whose theory

Does it matter whose theory has the most validity? The point is to get the majority to think that 9/11 should be re-investigated.. which the CNN Poll seem to indicate. 84 % :)

pockybot: how could WTC 7 be

pockybot: how could WTC 7 be reconciled with just LIHOP?

Here's my email to Noam Chomsky, who obviously fully believes the official story:

Dear professor Chomsky,

as you know, the 9/11 Commission presented a third, radically new
timeline and explanation for why none of the four hijacked planes were
intercepted on 9/11. See, for example, professor Griffin's detailed
article at

The Commission didn't, however, bother to explain why the earlier,
apparently incorrect explanations were given and held onto.

Furthermore, as is well known, the Commission completely disregarded
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's detailed testimony in the
Commission's hearings. In his testimony Mineta described the
discussion of Vice-President Cheney in the White House command bunker,
at about 9:20 a.m., with his subordinate about what to do with the
plane approaching the Pentagon. Amazingly, the Commission instead
stated that Cheney did not arrive at the bunker until around 10 a.m.
and that the strike to the Pentagon came as a total surprise.

Do you agree with those who insist that such contradictions need to be
thoroughly investigated and explained? Will you do what you can to support this goal?

Regards from Finland,

Chomsky replied that he had been asked about this so often that he had to stop replying, but went on to say anyway that it is not a high priority for him for what seem to him quite sound reasons, which he has frequently explained. Furthermore, according to Chomsky, people who take that as a high priority are making a mistake that is "welcomed by power centers", as he believes.

How can you reply to *that*? All ideas would be welcome.

An idea: Print "THOUGHT

An idea:

Print "THOUGHT CRIMINAL" on baseball hats (in the "FBI" font).

Peace takes

Peace takes courage:

Yes, it does.

Hit piece, (for anyone who

Hit piece, (for anyone who bothers):

"Charlie's conspiracy angels"

I've put together a shnazzy

I've put together a shnazzy poster for our LC2E screener coming up at Texas A&M University. It's free for public usage, posted in a blank jpg and in an editable psd format here.

Bah, here's the link to the

Bah, here's the link to the poster.

Man, just no luck, HERE's

Man, just no luck,
HERE's the poster.

"such as the fantastic piece in Popular Mechanics"

I'd like to know what really is going on in the guy's head...

On seconds thoughts, perhaps I wouldn't.

Below's my email to Marina Hyde, cc:d to Alan Rusbridger.

Dear Ms Hyde,

your character defamation of actor Charlie Sheen at,,1739254,00.html

is one of the most repulsive pieces of "journalism" I have ever read.

I cannot understand how a column like that could have been published
in The Guardian -- a paper for which I used to have a lot of respect.

Failing to tackle any of the important points Sheen makes, you direct all your energy at painting the man in the worst possible light. I can only wonder about your motives for doing this, and I have little doubt most intelligent readers are wondering about the same thing.

Why not, then, defame The Guardian's own Al Kennedy, who asks similar
questions as Sheen in a truly brilliant column "The war on

But if Guardian authors are untouchable, perhaps you'd instead like to bash the author of the following WTC 7 blog from Finland?

"The Destruction of WTC 7"

I and my fellow Finns wish you good luck in your search for some
journalistic integrity.

Yours sincerely,

I noticed you guys posted

I noticed you guys posted the NYTimes piece about the confirmation of the Memo.

Didn't the President just last week tell Helen Thomas that "no President wants war"? It sure seems to me like he wanted war AT ALL COSTS.

Yet... another lie. Lies, lies, lies...

A question to any of you newcomers...


CNN "Don't Mention The

CNN "Don't Mention The Poll!"watch..... Monday morning, 0745 CST....COMPLETE BLACK OUT so far...not a peep...elephant in the studio furiously ignored by the Official O'Briens...HOW WILL JACK CAFFERTY HANDLE THIS?.....I suggest a mass e-mailing to Jack Cafferty. He's known for paying attention to his in-box...If HE won't talk about it, YOU KNOW there's pressure from on high...lead stories? Iraqi violence, wife shoots preacher, six dead in seattle shooting spree, another senseless shooting spree in elk grove, Duke U Lacrosse team rape allegations, dirty mexicans taking over the southwest, the ever present bird flu, missing black boys (seriously? they never cared before!), Muslim Madonna, flood potential in Hawaii....Maybe they don't read their own polls.......
From Miles, when referring to Republicans sniping at Bush, "They're starting to act like Democrats now..." Ha-freakin'-Ha Miles!

Sorry for the ambiguity in

Sorry for the ambiguity in my comments above. I can see why there was confusion.

What I meant was the "no planes" theorists of the WTC attacks. The Pentagon remains a mystery - and I don't have an answer to it. Nevertheless there is physical evidence that whatever hit the Pentagon wasn't a Boeing 757. It could've been a smaller aircraft, such as an A4, or a Global Hawk drone, or a missile. We don't know.

But I heard some skeptics on World Crisis Radio talking about the "no planes at the WTC" theory. It sounds just off the wall. To me it sounded like either a very misguided study in 9-11 Truth or a disinformation operation. At no time did the skeptics call attention to the cases for controlled demolition or WTC 7, only the no-planes theory.

My point was that, as a movement, we need to focus on the quantitative proof that exists to disprove the official story. WTC 7 and the WTC collapses provide that, whereas pure "no planes" speculation does not.

I hope this adds clarity to my comments - and I certainly don't discourage people from presenting theories about what they think happened! However, when it is purely speculative, then it becomes more problematic and even disingenuous.

Some dutch sites covering

Some dutch sites covering the Sheen story. No big newspapers though...

The articles are all fairly neutral, just stating the facts without attacking Sheen. Responses are about 50%/50% positive/negative.

The biggest dutch 'weblog'

Popular showbizz site

Never heard of this one...

Fairly popular weblog

Never heard of this one either....grenwetenschap translates in border science

Dutch movie site

Not too bad all in all...

Does anyone else have an

Does anyone else have an interest in starting a letter-writing campaign to the liberal/progressive blogs and news sources who refuse to cover 9/11 truth and the Charlie Sheen story?

I'm starting out with but there are plenty more (AmericaBlog, truthout, Crooks & Liars, etc.)

Here's my letter to

email address:

Dear Common Dreams,

Why have you not covered the Charlie Sheen story? This story has appeared on CNN's Showbiz Tonight for 3 nights last week. Surely, you're aware of this.

9/11 truth is the elephant in the room that America and the world are finally waking up to. This isn't "conspiracy theory" -- it's conspiracy fact and undeniable when people take the time to look into this.

The CNN poll -- admittedly unscientific, but nonetheless quite large -- has, as of this writing, over 50,000 people responding. 84% -- yes EIGHTY-FOUR percent agree with Sheen that the government is covering up 9/11.


You all do an excellent job bringing us progressive news and opinion. If you value your credibility, you will realize that 9/11 truth is not going away, that it's growing, and that you will be left behind when the story finally breaks through. People will remember which internet news sources had the guts to report on it, and which sites gave in to fear or concern about their reputation. Don't you realize that that either of these reasons for not reporting on 9/11 truth plays into the hands of people like Karl Rove? Please wake up and get up to speed with the American people, many of whom are way ahead of you on this issue and have been speaking out for years.



please forward Citzs email

please forward Citzs email to (even if you hate him he's website gets millions of hits)also to huffington post, americablog, crooksandliars, democraticunderground, etc.

truthout was early and often

truthout was early and often on LIHOP, several years ago anyway

@ Monsieur: I suppose most

@ Monsieur: I suppose most get it right and think probably the same.

As far as it my point of view you speak right out of my heart.

So, even if Nico Haupt and Jeff King are right on all their topics, it won't be easy to spread the 911 truth with this issues.

Let's concentrate on a few, solid facts, that proves an inside job.

AmericaBlog has an open

AmericaBlog has an open thread at the top of their page right now:

and I just left the following:

Maybe Charlie Sheen will make more waves this week regarding 9/11. Hopefully.

When will AmericaBlog take 9/11 truth seriously?

Why does ANYONE believe BushCo's official conspiracy theory, after all the other lies we've been fed -- and especially since BushCo has never provided the proof promised?

C'mon. Think about it.

Vote now on the CNN poll. Add your voice to the 50,000+ people who have responded IN FAVOR of Charlie Sheen.

This issue is NOT going away, and is the elephant in the room. Without 9/11, Bush is nothing. Quit defending Bush's story by dissing 9/11 truth or ignoring it. Wake up. Thanks for reading. no fewer
no fewer than 600 pages, each with an average of 5 comments, all pertaining to wtc collapse

I'm a wee bit disappointed

I'm a wee bit disappointed by Jon Gold's earlier remarks about Canadians on the previous post, and am hoping it's his idea of humour. I really had hoped we were on the same team.

I will be writing CBC today to state that there is nothing amusing, or entertaining about ridiculing the deaths of 3,000 people. Didn't see their so called irreverant look at news events but I am very unhappy with their value judgement on the coverage.

Michael Moore deserves to be shaken up too as Andi suggests. He didn't even post Charlie Sheen's story once (at least not that I've seen). What a letdown he became.

My impression is that the MSM is either onside with Bush or too afraid to discuss the issue. Perhaps they worry about economic problems, or what should be the breakdown of their political system, etc. I don't know but I am going to continue to hit them with "the deaths of 3000 people is no laughing matter" until it's taken seriously.

Lastly with regard to World net daily blog or whatever its called, which was the magazine that called and had on it's front cover that the commission was a white wash? I think that trumps Popular Mechanics.

Noam Chomsky strikes me as a

Noam Chomsky strikes me as a pompous ass who hastily made up his mind on 9/11 long ago without thoroughly investigating the details. If Chomsky believes the official story, I would say that all of his other "works" are suspect too. His loss.

anon, i can tell you for

anon, i can tell you for sure that jon was joking... sbg is from canada and we love him...

Anon, a few of us filled out

Anon, a few of us filled out the forum on The CBC's The Hour website and asked that George Stananjifdsfhdohfsuh (can't spell it) do his 9/11 homework. Don't forget to include his show as its one of the most popular.

"I'm a wee bit disappointed

"I'm a wee bit disappointed by Jon Gold's earlier remarks about Canadians on the previous post, and am hoping it's his idea of humour. I really had hoped we were on the same team."

Yes anon, that was a crack aimed specifically at SBG, and nothing more.

There is a "9/11 Families

There is a "9/11 Families Told Of Loved Ones' 911 Calls With Form Letters..." blog on HuffPo here:

There is a comment mocking Loose Change there that is particularly annoying.

So far only german left wing

So far only german left wing newspaper "Junge Welt"
jumps onto the Sheen Story, besides a short mentioning in Netzeitung.
which was also used for short cuts on N24 and Sat1 news wire.

All articles are accurate.

german researcher Gerhard Wisnewski does a longer story:

PS: I e-mailed all the propagandist that were on the first front against Wisnewski and Broeckers, asking what they'll do now. So far, no one responded...

Again... if you're

Again... if you're interested in taking 9/11 classes, the first thing you need to do is sign up on my site... The YBBS


Chomsky is a brilliant

Chomsky is a brilliant writer but he is but one voice.

I like Chomsky's work too

I like Chomsky's work too and its all pretty accurate...except again, he won't take it as deep as it goes with 9/11 and the NWO. Same said for Michael Moore. No point emailing Chomsky though because his work is already so right on and controversial he is already routinely censored and blacked out in American mainstream media.

Yah, but theoretical

Yah, but theoretical eggheads like Chomsky miss the obvious truth right under their noses. Not quite as smart as they think they are.

LOL @ eggheads :)

LOL @ eggheads :)

I mean, we could really use

I mean, we could really use Chomsky's help, but he picks 9/11 as the only thing he's ever believed the gov't to be truthful about. Doesn't make sense to me.

isnt MIT funded by the

isnt MIT funded by the pentagon??? i think so...

it makes no sense for chumpsky to say what he says...

I mean, we could really use

I mean, we could really use Chomsky's help, but he picks 9/11 as the only thing he's ever believed the gov't to be truthful about. Doesn't make sense to me.
Anonymous | 03.27.06 - 11:41 am | #

I know, exactly. It's not quite right.

gas stations other corporate symbols we see every day.

Nov 5th = 9/11 V!

Nov 5th = 9/11

Charlie Sheen's Statement To

Well, the Charlie Sheen poll

Well, the Charlie Sheen poll at CNN's Showbiz tonight is gone. And, tonight on the program is the following:

Monday's show

We'll tell you what "American Idol" has to do with the war in Iraq, the vice president and discrimination against overweight women? "Showbiz Tonight" airs live on Headline News at 7 p.m. and replays at 11 p.m. (All times Eastern.)

Not that I really expected this to continue. Why do I feel that this is ALL we'll get the mainstream media to do? Quickly forgotten by the MSM and back to buried as usual.

I do hope that at least the coverage last week had an impact on people who hadn't looked at 9/11 truth before, and helped energize the base. Time will tell I guess.

"Does anyone else have an

"Does anyone else have an interest in starting a letter-writing campaign to the liberal/progressive blogs and news sources who refuse to cover 9/11 truth and the Charlie Sheen story?"

This is very important. I've been blasting the left gatekeepers (common dreams, Democracy Now, Truth out) etc. for years, with no effect.

But "fresh legs", new angles and larger numbers might have better luck.

Go go go!!!

moussouai and richard reed to hijack 5th plane on 9-11-01, and cradh into white house

keep in mind he is saying this at his own death penalty trial

another tim mc veigh straw man

That's the best scenario we

That's the best scenario we can hope for if they don't continue to cover it CitizenKit...

The best thing that could happen is that someone else "famous" comes out.

why isn't Sheen going on

why isn't Sheen going on Showbiz Tonight? It seems like that's the next logical step. You know A.J. would love to have him on.

I mean, we could really use

I mean, we could really use Chomsky's help, but he picks 9/11 as the only thing he's ever believed the gov't to be truthful about. Doesn't make sense to me.

Chomsky is the biggest Left-GateKeeper out. He may even be one of the biggest people working for the right

Is this just a tease? I

Is this just a tease? I haven't heard anything new today :(

Unfortunately, CNN & the

Unfortunately, CNN & the rest of the MSM are going LARGE on the Zacarias Moussaoui propaganda today.

Moussaoui is their expert showman on how the al Qaeda supermen had further plans to devestate the U.S., blah, blah, blah...

Maybe he can explain how Silverstein & the Fire Dept "pulled it."

Moussaoui executes

Moussaoui executes controlled demolition on 9/11 conspiracy movement.

Moussaoui says he knew of WTC attack
Al Qaeda conspirator takes stand against his lawyers' wishes
From Phil Hirschkorn

Monday, March 27, 2006; Posted: 12:50 p.m. EST (17:50 GMT)

Zacarias Moussaoui is the only person tried in the United States in connection with the September 11 attacks.
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Manage Alerts | What Is This? ALEXANDRIA, Virginia (CNN) -- Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui testified at his sentencing trial Monday that he knew about the terrorist group's plan to crash airplanes into the World Trade Center.

"I had knowledge that the two towers would be hit, but I did not have the details," Moussaoui told jurors after taking the stand in his own defense.

He said he was supposed to pilot a plane into the White House, with convicted shoe bomber Richard Reid as a member of his crew.

Moussaoui said he did not know in advance the precise date of Twin Towers attack, which unfolded the morning of September 11, 2001.

The only person tried in the United States in connection with the 9/11 attacks, Moussaoui testified against the advice of his court-appointed lawyers.

Too bad for you guys.

VIDEO: Secret Service talks

VIDEO: Secret Service talks of potential hijacking shortly after 7 am on 9/11

"That's an internet theory

"That's an internet theory and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible I don't see any point in talking about it."

— Noam Chomsky, at a FAIR event at New York's Town Hall, 22 January 2002, in response to a question from the audience about US government foreknowledge of 9/11.

* Ford Foundation & the Gatekeepers of the Left

Yizzo--I think you're

Yizzo--I think you're correct about Chumpsky. In your link, he's clearly dicking around with the Kennedy assassination. Chumpsky knows there's no way he could spin 9/11 like he did Kennedy, so he just avoids 9/11 truth altogether.

C'mon people, the Moussaoui

C'mon people, the Moussaoui statement and the 911 tapes are signs, that they play tricks on us, because they are desperate.

Don't get fooled. Try even harder to press the truth...

Jansen, Do you think that

Jansen, Do you think that Moussaoui, one U.S. Gov't-controlled kook, it going to quash the 9/11 truth movement. If so, it's you I feel sorry for.

When are we going to see a

When are we going to see a half million people in the streets of an American city demanding a new, independent 9/11 investigation ... like we saw last weekend over proposed immigration reform? I just don't get it. (I'll leave the NWO/elimination of national sovereignty discussion for another time.)

Last week was incredible! I haven't been on-line since Friday. Looking to see what's new on the Sheen front. Will these new 9-1-1 calls from the towers contain any references to explosions? It was reported that the families will get one version and the public will only get to hear the operator's side of the conversation. And with Moussaoui's revelations today, he definitely should not get the death penalty. He should be pumped for more information.

Valis, If "genius" Chomsky

Valis, If "genius" Chomsky said re 9/11:
"That's an internet theory and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible I don't see any point in talking about it."

I will never, ever, listen to anything else Chumpsky ever says. Anyone as "learnered" & "lefty" as he portrays himself to be and makes a comment like that is a fraud!

Oh, so now we believe

Oh, so now we believe terrorist wannabe/mass-murderer Moussaoui's word? I guess he's one of those honest-type killers.

This jerk has been in jail for years being indoctrinated by our Govey on what to say.

Chomsky's paycheck comes

Chomsky's paycheck comes from Harvard University and my guess is, if he were to embrace any form of 9/11 Truth, he'd be looking for work at the local community college for 15k a year.

harvard?? hes at MIT...

harvard?? hes at MIT... which is funded by the pentagon i believe...

MIT thats right, brain fart

MIT thats right, brain fart , anyway my point still holds true. thanks

Jansen--Maybe your boy

Jansen--Maybe your boy Moussaoui "pulled" WTC-7?

The "V" was a good

The "V" was a good entertainment and perhaps a propaganda with one amazing timing. But calling it a complex movie is like calling a lolipop a meal.
What we had been told in this movie is that the oppression is always in our face in the form of few totally corrupted evil leaders who incidentally are also the most visible figures we see daily in news. Once we revolt and take them down all problems are fixed because that is all there is to it, just them, the visible evil leaders.
That is a complex movie? If I would make a complex movie, I would reveal at the end that the masked character was in fact the one who created it all, he found mentally sick characters that he can control, he paid them to create false-flag, he pushed them up to create totalitarian regime so people could hate them, and then he brought them down to replace that evil regime with one that has a broad support of people yet still gives him a full control over them. That would be more appropriate.
Holywood as a propaganda tool was always amazing with their timing. Bush job is done, this is his second and last term so the powers-to-be have no further role for him. But to give people the sense of "V" they will allow and manipulate peple to bring him down. We will be all dancing on the streets because of a new leader, yet from inside nothing will change.
You have to really give kudos to them for the full-circle planning.
CNN is among the strongest middle-east war pushers (rewind your CNN tapes from 3 yeras back and watch it carefully - they gladly invent bogus info if government didn't supply them with enough lies) but now we are about to believe that someone in CNN want the "truth". Why now? Why when Bush is in fact already finished with his second last term nearing its end? Will that reverse the war in middle-east or actually advance it to Venezuela, China and Russia with us being busy uncovering the so called truth about 911? When you see Charlie Sheen talking about 911 on CNN you see the real "V for Vendetta" at work.

baloo, you do know it was

baloo, you do know it was just a movie, right???

do you bash orwell and his book 1984 also???

would you further implicate

would you further implicate yourself at a death penalty trial, where you have already plead guilty

this is bs

Something big is definately

Something big is definately happening in the back rooms of washington. It might be the triumph of the realist over the neocons, a backlash to recent intimidation of the press, a real fear by the military and washington elites that the the neocons are foolishly planning to attack Iran with all of its obviouse repercusions or it might be its just time to pull the plug and minimize any further damage.
But it definately looks like the press has finally been given the go ahead for a 'controlled demolition' of the Bush administration. Someone has given the word to 'pull it' so that they save the ship by sacrificing the captain and his crew. 911 and the lies that lead us into Iraq threaten not only the administration but the very foundation of propaganda, covert ops, false flags , and criminal / government nexus (i.e. drugs, organized crime, money laundering, international banking ect. ) that has worked so well , at least from their perspective, to acheive their aims. They will not allow this whole system to be opened up for scrutiny. 911 and Iraq was a new experiment with the old statedgy of empire and facsism in support of international financiers. The experiment hasn't failed completely yet, but when its certain that it has, they will want to control the damage, so they may continue in a more subtle way, ala Bill Clinton or should I say Hillary Clinton. I beleive the majority of the press and the congress know that 911 was an inside job, but they will only expose it when they no the jig is up and they can reep the greatest benefits, while offering a quick solution to a disoriented and angry population that will then just want to 'move on'. Imagine what would happen to the morale of our troops if it became clear elements of our own government were involved in 911. Obviously the military is thinking about this. ...Thus it will be 'controlled demolition' ....We will be told: "The criminals have been removed, they were idealistic, they were fanatical christians that believed in Isreal as the promised land, they may have done wrong but they're heart was in the right place. Now that they have been removed, there is no reason to look any deeper, we must move on."

As for Noam Chompsky, his most revealing comment is that exposing 911 will just work into the hands of the some power elite. His decision not to endorse 911 truth seekers is aI believe a tactical decision that the same powers that benefited from the crisis of 911, will find a way or orchestrate a way to benefit from the crisis of reveling the truth about 911.
Dr. Griffin in a letter to some critics said he also was concerned about how easily it is to discredit the official version of events, He agrees that it it seems they almost want to get someone caught in the lie. He says he has his own beliefs about why , but he will keep those to himself until he has better evidence.

Who is gonig to profit on the way down? Are they the same forces that truly profited on the way up?

The Government is the only

The Government is the only one with the shady behavior.

Google" Dylan Avery Ridjewhater LGF" and see what the kid was doing in 2003

If thats not enough watch as he plays the other side of the coin and becomes anti muslim when you google: "Dylan Avery open letter to osama ben laden"

See what he had top say about the troops on thanksgiving day 2003 on LGF when he called them GENOCIDE KILLERS.

Also Google "Dylan Avery ZULUBABY"

The guys is a controlled spook.

Why would Jason Bermas click with a comfirmed nazi jew hater?

Why would Korey Rowe click with someone who speaks and feels our troop our GENOCIDAL KILLERS?

Why does FOX promote them?

Why did the cover up what wingtv did at the WTC Memorial? Why does valis and thomas holbrook post BS articles already proven to be false also this 911blogger site which posted it as well even after I notified them the article was false?

People at the next WTC anniverasy are going to love finding out about this so-called truth movement bent on posting BS.

Wanna talk about a conspiracy??

You can't handle or post the truth.

Buyer Beware!!!!

Paul Isaac Jr(Sentinel)

Jason Bermas stated he 1

Jason Bermas stated he 1 quarter german jew.

Why would he collaborate with a comfirmed jew hater?


Paul, WTF are you talking

Paul, WTF are you talking about? What would any of that, if true or not, have to do with 9/11 being a false-flag inside job?

People ask, why did every

People ask, why did every firefighter know WTC7 was coming down? In researching what the firefighters said(just liek what 9/11 truthers have researched about what te twin tower firefighters said) so many of them hours before WTC7's collapse stated that they worried it was going to fall from massive internal structural damage. I've seen footage that ya just dont see on 9/11 truther sites, where the entire right side has black smoke flowing out of it, and massive damage on one side. IS this enough for it to fall perectly? That is a good question. Firefighters semeed to have even used the word 'pull' when getting everyone out of the vacinity, to 'pull our guys out'..hey I think Silverstein is an oppurtunist SOB making money off the deatsh of thousands, but maybe...just maybe he reallyw as talking about pulling the firefighters back from the area. If peopel say they demolished it for saftey reasons, well then ya have to say theres no way they planted them in time.

And I again, after a couple years of researcdh I have concluded that al Qaeda was most likely behind it...I mean Zacharius Mossaoui could bring out video footage of all the hijackers having dinner with Osama gleefully talking about the plan, and peopel would still think al Qaeda are a bunch of CIA stooges.

If WTC7 is proven to be a one in a million structural failure, and the WTC fell from weekened structures, I find the case for LIHOP with measures to make sure knowone stopped it to be pretty solid. I used to be a strong MIHOP supporter, but have definately begun to feel it is more likely LIHOP in a very disgusting way.

From the victims' point of

From the victims' point of view, LIHOP and MIHOP don't matter very much.

Pocky--Your above comments

Pocky--Your above comments are asinine. I think you are deliberately spreading disinfo. There was no "massive internal structural damage" in WTC-7 and no firefighters said there was. The only scenes of WTC-7 with massive damage are when it was being imploded. "Pull it" is totally different from "Pull out" or "Pull back". If WTC-7 was "structural failure" (absurd as it is) you wouldn't see the entire thing become a pile of rubble.

dear Pockybot, in regards to

dear Pockybot,

in regards to WTC7 please note that the shed on the roof collapses before the roof as a whole. This cannot be explained by damage at the base of the building.

That last paragraph of yours is one really big IF. But part of the reason that people would still consider "al Qaeda" to be a US Gov tool is obvious if you've done your research. Even as recently as the Kosovo conflict they were acknowledged as being protected US assets. And then there's that CIA interview with Osama while he was in hospital in 2001 (no he wasn't detained). I'm not sure why you can't find this stuff if you're really looking. And yes, LIHOP vs. MIHOP is trivial to those affected.

But on to the more interesting matters than addressing Bot's concerns...

V for Vendetta was worth seeing. Many good rebel references in it, and one I had to look up:
"Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"

"I've seen footage that ya

"I've seen footage that ya just dont see on 9/11 truther sites, where the entire right side has black smoke flowing out of it, and massive damage on one side"

pockybot: where can I see such footage?

Charlie Sheen is my fucking

Charlie Sheen is my fucking hero.
He knows his history, he knows his quotes, and he knows the questions.

Rock On !

Rock On !

Thank You Charlie!

"Charlie Sheen is my fucking

"Charlie Sheen is my fucking hero.

"He knows his history, he knows his quotes, and he knows the questions."

So does every other gullible 9/11 conspiracist.

It's too bad he and you aren't willing to deal with facts and reality.

"There was no "massive

"There was no "massive internal structural damage" in WTC-7 and no firefighters said there was.

Yes, there was, and firemen did say so. It's been documented for years. Do you need help looking it up yourselves?

"The only scenes of WTC-7 with massive damage are when it was being imploded."

Unfortunatley, for you, repeting that it was imploded does not make it true.

There is NO evidence of implosion and no one has presented any whatsoever. There is no evidence of explosives and all the independent investigations on the dust have confirmed that.

"Pull it" is totally different from "Pull out" or "Pull back".

And the term "pull it" is not used by anyone for controlled demolitions. This canard that Silverstein meant "pull the building down" has been repeatedly shown to be false. You need to stop worshipping at the alter of unqualified 9/11 conspiracists spoon feeding you with everything you want to hear.

"If WTC-7 was "structural failure" (absurd as it is) you wouldn't see the entire thing become a pile of rubble."

Sure you would. What in hell do you think gravity does.

It's absurd that you all sit around here without educating yourselves on the physical and scientific facts.

"pockybot: where can I see

"pockybot: where can I see such footage?"

This is the photo of the south side of wtc7 which suffered the large structural damage.

You realize of course that one does not need photos since all of the other evidence is sufficient.

"There is NO evidence of

"There is NO evidence of implosion and no one has presented any whatsoever."

Sure there is. Larry Silverstein said he "pulled it" and watched it collapse.
"There is no evidence of explosives"

Sure there is. Dozens of people heard them & some were recorded.
"This is the photo of the south side of wtc7 which suffered the large structural damage."

No it isn't. The south side of WTC-7 was 350 feet north of the North tower. It looked okay in all the pictures of it that I've seen.
"Sure you would. What in hell do you think gravity does."

It doesn't turn a steel-framed building into a gravel pit. You would see large pieces of building down, & large pieces of building still standing. Some walls down, others broken or cracked & standing, etc.

Another CT'er who is cluless

Another CT'er who is cluless wrote...

"Sure there is. Larry Silverstein said he "pulled it" and watched it collapse."

No, he didn't.

"Sure there is. Dozens of people heard them & some were recorded."

No, they didn't.

"No it isn't. The south side of WTC-7 was 350 feet north of the North tower. It looked okay in all the pictures of it that I've seen."

Yes, it is.

"It doesn't turn a steel-framed building into a gravel pit. You would see large pieces of building down, & large pieces of building still standing. Some walls down, others broken or cracked & standing, etc."

That's exactly what you see.

Sure anonymous, just change

Sure anonymous, just change the facts to hide that it was an inside job. Bushie does it all the time.

Here is an interesting

Here is an interesting review of the movie "V for Vendettat", and the real meaning behind it: