Challenge Me On The Facts!
A German 9/11 skeptic suggested that Charlie Sheen's remarks would make a good battle cry for the 9/11 truth movement, and I think he's right. From this point forward, demand that your opponents challenge you on the facts!!! No longer will name calling or other childish antics by supporters of the official story be tolerated.
So a new week begins, first of all, I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to Charlie Sheen for his courage last week in speaking out on the very important questions of 9/11. Charlie, if you happen to read this, a HUGE thank you from all members and contributors at www.911blogger.com!!!
Now, it is up to US at the grassroots level to support Mr. Sheen and ensure his selfless act was not in vain. How we handle and respond to these developments will dictate whether or not other celebrities choose to speak out on this crime. We MUST prove that those that do speak their mind regarding this subject WILL be supported and promoted by the Truth Movement, and they will NOT be vilified by the media, and they will NOT be risking their careers. It is up to us to make this so, so get out there and spread the Truth!!!
Lots of stuff going on in the media over the last few days, here is a quick sampling:
New York Magazine, 3/27/2006, Validates 'A Real 9/11 Commission' Two 9/11 Foundation Truths
To Mr. Charles Sheen, 'A Real 9/11 Commission' Participant -- Thank You
NIST's New Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel (WTC)
NY Times obtains secret memo of Bush, Blair meeting before Iraq war.
PULL IT: Sheen challenges Silverstein on WTC demolition
"The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours," the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach."
Bush Was Set on Path to War, Memo by British Adviser Says
Charlie's conspiracy angels (Hit Piece, let 'em have it!)
Cool Loose Change Poster
And the "perfect Timing" award goes to:
Form letters tell 9/11 families of 911 calls
Lets all have a good day spreading truth, remember, Challenge Me On The Facts.
- Login to post comments
I challenge you on the facts
I challenge you on the facts SBG...
Who was the name of Daniel Pearl's murderer?
who would go to jail for
who would go to jail for life or the death penalty and lose their own life for some rich white guys named Bush or some mysterious shadowey group? its the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas.
it also doesnt escape my notice how easily people here seem to want to think hi-jackings by middle east terrorists are some kind of myth.they have happened all thru history.
fact is there is a theory called occams razor.
it states the simplest explanation is generally the correct one.what makes more sense,middle east terrorists were doing what they do, attacking civilian and west targets to make a statement about our presense in ME.....OR....some shadowey unamed group of rich guys who spend time dictating every historical move?
in any case here is independant colloboration that it was a terrorist group all along and by one of the guys who was a part of the terrorist group.as though he would die as a patsie for some secret group.
no way
ALEXANDRIA, Va. - Al-Qaida conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui testified Monday that he and would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid were supposed to hijack a fifth airplane on Sept. 11, 2001, and fly it into the White House. Moussaoui's testimony on his own behalf stunned the courtroom as he disclosed details he had never revealed before.
Glenn... you know what?
Glenn... you know what? You're right about one thing. They have hijacked planes in the past. As a matter of fact, they've even hijacked four planes on the same day. And guess what... it wasn't on 9/11.
It was on 9/12/1970.
Glenn, what about WTC 7?
Glenn, what about WTC 7?
fact is there is a theory
fact is there is a theory called occams razor.
it states the simplest explanation is generally the correct one.
***
This is totally BS.
http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=73012
Sorry, you're far too late
Sorry, you're far too late to try to claim Sheen has any so-called "facts." He never did.
Moussaoui has now set off a controlled demolition on your 9/11 conspiracy theories, blowing it sky high, ending your efforts to deny reality.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Riddle me this: VIDEO:
Riddle me this:
VIDEO: Secret Service talks of potential hijacking shortly after 7 AM on 9/11
http://www.freepressinternational.com/secret-service-possible-hijacking-...
Bush talks about goats at 9AM
Hey Doug Jansen... how much
Hey Doug Jansen... how much of 9/11 have you actually researched?
How would a plane hijacked
How would a plane hijacked to hit the White House expect to hit its target? Would it not expect to be shot down before getting there?
what, because someone says
what, because someone says that it isnt efective it isnt?
I have just shown that an independant source, ie Zacarias Moussaoui has ADMITTED he was part of Al queda and it was a plan by terrorists.
not some shadowey group with secret schemes or with our government.
if ANYTHING it would make more sense for them to say they were, but they arent doing that,cause these guys are the real deal. they are middle east terrorists who believe what they do.
essencially you guys have to buy that he and richard reid are willing to go to jail or get death penalty for a for a scheme in which they were sold out by their "secret government group" HELL...they got caught. whats the motive to lie? it would be more to their benedit to say they were part of a government plot but they dont. bad news for you
Zacharious Mossad-i is
Zacharious Mossad-i is nothing but a patsie.
Moussaoui could have just
Moussaoui could have just sat in his defendant chair, waited this whole trial out, let the prosecution keep shooting itself in the foot, and then he wouldn't have gotten the death penalty. Why did Moussaoui forcefully take the stand and admit guilt?
It doesn't make sense.
Well Glenn, your right about
Well Glenn, your right about one thing. We were attacked by terrorists on 9/11. Problem is they were not from the mid-east. These terrorists were home grown. We also have all their names. Bush, Cheney, Rice ect. They call themselves neocons. Now please take my advice and post elsewhere. You are making a complete ass out of yourself.
"who would go to jail for
"who would go to jail for life or the death penalty and lose their own life for some rich white guys named Bush or some mysterious shadowey group? its the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas."
Brainwashed, mentally-ill, religious-fanatic patsies would.
;-)
;-)
Al-Qaida? Is that what the
Al-Qaida? Is that what the CIA focus group finally decided on, when choosing a new name?
Al Qaeda conspirator
Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui testified today that he knew about plans to crash planes into the World Trade Center. "I had knowledge that the two towers would be hit, but I did not have the details,"
It is totally irrelevant
It is totally irrelevant what Zacharious said,
the WTC-7 was controlled detonated, thus
the rest of the official story is a fraud.
@ Glen: Ever heard of this
@ Glen: Ever heard of this Al-Qaida patsie who admit beeing a terrorist?
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?s=e2cf60f00e363...
There seem to be enough crazy arabs who'll just wanted to be guilty.
As in this quote:
The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City and you'll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed.
http://killtown.911review.org/lonegunmen.html
Glann, Logic and fact are
Glann,
Logic and fact are lost on these folks. It doesn't matter what you say, they will have some obscure reason not to believe. I'm sure some of them think Moussaoui's a CIA agent or sent from the illuminatti or the Masons or area 51. Face it, you're debating kooks...
it seem like everytime a new
it seem like everytime a new thread starts a shill pops up... HAHAHAH!!!! i find it funny that they feel the need to post here of all places....
here we go again with the
here we go again with the "brainwashing". listen guys, try and focus.
you know, for some people here who seem to be putting themselves forth as pursuers of the truth you sure seem quick to discard things out of hand.
I mean, you must know what a problem
Zacarias Moussaoui presents. he has no stake in lying and going to his death UNLESS he is a religious fundie.
besides,Zacarias Moussaoui was caught before he could do anything.
why would the government want one of their secret operatives to get busted and possibly spill the beans? seems to me the last thing they would want would be it going to trial, yet there he is on trial and saying the OPPOSITE.
"I have just shown that an
"I have just shown that an independant source, ie Zacarias Moussaoui has ADMITTED he was part of Al queda and it was a plan by terrorists."
He also said he admitted to this, "Because everybody used to refer to me as the 20th hijacker and it was a bit of fun." Not ONLY that, but Moussaoui originally was going to plead guilty in December 2002, however, he rescinded his plea a week later. Judge Brinkema wasn't sure if his mental state was an issue or not.
How can we trust anything Moussaoui says?
glenn, try to focus on
glenn, try to focus on wtc-7.... HAHHAHA!!!!
i say just bann them, dz...
"why would the government
"why would the government want one of their secret operatives to get busted and possibly spill the beans? seems to me the last thing they would want would be it going to trial, yet there he is on trial and saying the OPPOSITE"
Do you honestly believe "patsies" have any idea they're being used?
To repeat -- how could
To repeat -- how could anyone plan to hijack a plane and hit the White House? Anti-aircraft defenses were placed in Genoa months before 9/11, one would expect that defenses at the White House were similarly secured. How could anyone have planned to hit the White House, or, for that matter, the Pentagon?
Moussaouis todays testimony
Moussaouis todays testimony contradicts an earlier statement:
See page 29
http://wid.ap.org/documents/courts/zmtrans.pdf
"I ask the government to point out to me a single paragraph where they say I'm specificially guilty of 911...
because the government had said that there is a broader conspiracy to use airplane as weapon of mass destruction.
If that's absolutely correct, that I came to the United States of America to be part, okay, of a conspiracy to use airplane as a weapon of mass destruction, I was being trained on the 747 400 to eventually use this plane as stated in this
statement of fact to strike the White House, but this conspiracy
was a different conspiracy that 9/11.
My conspiracy has for aim to free Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh, who is held in Florence, Colorado, okay, and we wanted to use the 747 because it, it is a long-distance plane who could reach Afghanistan without any stopover to give a chance to special forces to storm the plane.
So I am guilty of a broad conspiracy to use weapon of mass destruction to hit the White House if the American government refuse to negotiate, okay."
***
So, he's probably a born liar...
***
And: The US government knows all along in advance that there were terrorists inside the US to free the blind sheik, as Condoleezza Rice admitted:
"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. All of this reporting about hijacking was about traditional hijacking. You take a plane -- people were worried they might blow one up, but they were mostly worried that they might try to take a plane and use it for release of the blind Sheikh or some of their own people."
...
And this was an analytic piece that tried to bring together several threads -- in 1997, they talked about this; in 1998, they talked about that; it's been known that maybe they want to try and release the blind Sheikh -- I mean, that was the character of it.
Condoleezza Rice
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020516-13.html
Just sent this to Marina
Just sent this to Marina Hyde and Alan Rusbridger of the Guardian:
Good day,
If ever a great work of man - persistent, reliable and trusted - desintegrated faster than the Twin Towers, it was the Guardian's journalistic integrity. The infantile, slanderous hit piece "He's a right, Charlie", vociferously targeting Charlie Sheen, not his highly controversial and equally important message, shared no less by a remarkable 84% margin in the associated CNN poll, is completely devoid of factual discussion and attests the sudden, unexpected moral bankruptcy of my formerly favorite newspaper.
I don't know what caused this extreme deviation from journalism to kindergardism, if it was a singular lapse, or systemic. But I know that just like buildings, trust is harder to generate than to destroy. If irresponsible agitation could supersede responsible reporting on a topic this significant, my trust is spent. If of roughly 50,000 respondents to the CNN poll, 40,000 are considered insane now for demanding answers to valid questions, my good will is spent as well.
--
I hope that if enough people express outrage, they'll fire the tool. Unless the toolism has spread through the higher ranks already.
How could anyone have
How could anyone have planned to hit the White House, or, for that matter, the Pentagon?
theyre tricky??? HAHAHAH!!!
for real glenn,How could anyone have planned to hit the White House, or, for that matter, the Pentagon?
9/11 The Sequel?: New Intel:
9/11 The Sequel?: New Intel: Russian Nuke Traced to Texas for Synthetic Easter Attack
http://www.ken-welch.com/
It wouldn't surprise me if
It wouldn't surprise me if Zacarias Moussaoui is actually a MKULTRA/Project Monarch mind-controlled CIA asset...
Zacarias Moussaoui recruited
Zacarias Moussaoui recruited for US-Sponsored Jihads in Kosovo and Chechnya
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?%0D%0ACat=&Board=news_news&Numb...
Glenn, you said: "" who
Glenn, you said:
""
who would go to jail for life or the death penalty and lose their own life for some rich white guys named Bush or some mysterious shadowey group? its the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas.
""
Millions of people have and would get themselves killed in order to make rich and powerful elites even more rich and powerful. It's called war, and it's quite common throughout history.
Unlike you and Flanstein, I and others like me who care about the truth do not believe in any conspiracy theories, such as the U.S. government's lying, self-serving, a-historical, a-factual, and provably false official fairy tale conspiracy theory concerning the 9/11 attacks.
As well, the English translation of the common Latin version of Occam's Razor is: Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.
Thus, Occam's Razor actually favors the globalist elite's self-termed New World Order agenda as the logical starting point of inquiry, since it maintains the least amount of plurality in attributing causes to political events in the world.
One can make a conclusive case proving the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks even without any physicalist inquiry into the plane crashes or collapsed buildings (even though the case for that is conclusive), i.e., via historical inquiry into the public record in conjunction with deductive reasoning. For example, in regard to such facts as listed below:
- The PNAC document in 2000 calling for "a new Pearl Harbor" as a pretext for Middle-East domination;
- the fact that the October 2001 Afghanistan invasion was planned months beforehand (thus, the U.S. government was certain months before the 9/11 attacks that a pretext would present itself allowing the U.S. government to invade Afghanistan, and lo and behold such a pretext arives right on time);
- the fact that the supposed hijackers weren't Muslim extremists but did cocaine, hired prostitutes, drank alcohol, partied hard, etc.;
- the fact that many of the supposed hijackers were trained on U.S. military bases and had their legal residences on U.S. military bases;
- the fact that the supposed hijackers apparently knew that they had protection from the highest levels of the U.S. government and repeatedly went out of their way to draw attention to themselves as crazed, potential terrorists, as if to build a "legend" back-story;
- the fact that the many FBI agents attempting to invastigate these supposed hijackers were repeatedly and consistently blocked and ordered not to investigate these supposed hijackers, despite forceful protestations from said FBI agents that terrorist attacks were going to happen;
- the fact that U.S. government agents who tried to investigate the supposed hijackers were persecuted yet those in the government who blocked the investigations were promoted and given bonuses;
- the fact that many of these FBI agents went to David Schippers, the former Chief Council for the House Judiciary Committee, informing him (in an attempt to try and get something done) about the planned terrorist attacks and that they were threatened with the National Security Act not to pursue their cases and not to talk about them;
- the fact that David Schippers tried to get high-level functionaries (such as John Ashcroft) in the U.S. government to listen to him but they weren't interested;
- the fact that Osama bin Laden is a protected CIA asset and that before the 9/11 attacks a number of governments offered to arrest Osama and turn him over to the U.S. government but every time the U.S. government wasn't interested, despite the fact that he was supposedly wanted in connection to a number of previous terrorist attacks;
- the fact that the U.S. government worked with, supplied and used Osama's al-Qaeda terrorist network against the Serbian government all the way up into at least 1998, despite the fact that Osama was supposedly wanted in connection to a number of previous terrorist attacks.
And the list of such facts documented by the mainstream major media news articles and in primary documentation (such as the PNAC report) go on and on and on. The above is barely even scratching the surface on such facts as can be found in the mainstream public record. Add to that the fact that the U.S. government has a well-documented history (i.e., modus operandi) of staging such Hegelian dialectical PsyOps attacks as the Pearl Harbor attack, Operation Northwoods (which although didn't go forward due to John F. Kennedy, all the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff approved it for implementation), the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, etc., etc.
For mainstream documentation on the above facts, as well as on more such facts, see the below documentation resources:
The below post by me contains the November 10, 2003 article "September 11--Islamic Jihad or Another Northwoods?" by Tim Howells, Ph.D., which is a very good, short introduction to just some of the more damning mainstream major media articles and U.S. government primary documentation which proves up one side and down the other that the 9/11 attacks and the following anthrax attacks were a Hegelian dialectical PsyOp staged by the U.S. government as a pretext in order to obtain more power and control. I append my own additional endnotes at the conclusion of Dr. Howells' article, in order to add further mainstream documentation.
From: James Redford
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.education,alt.education.alternative,alt.education.research,misc.education
Subject: The U.S. Government Staged the 9/11 Attacks
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:49:56 GMT
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.college/msg/cdb2f90b15ea3233?dmode=so...
http://www.geocities.com/psyop911/tim-howells-september-11-islamic-jihad...
And:
The Truth About the 9/11 Attacks:
http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride/ (Note that this website by me hasn't been updated in a long time, so some of the links on it have gone dead. You can use http://www.archive.org to revive some of the dead links.)
For more on government-staged terrorism, see the below post by me:
"Documentation on Government-Staged Terrorism," September 30, 2005:
http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2&mforum=libertyandtruth
Zacarias Moussaoui is insane
Zacarias Moussaoui is insane - that is why he was picked to be a patsy. They take very emotionally unstable people that they can lead around and put in the right place.
there was this guy named Oswald . . .
strange site you found there
strange site you found there valis...
calling Zacarias Moussaoui a
calling Zacarias Moussaoui a patsy in this scheme is too easy.
you guys imagine this huge well planned conspiracy,yet why leave,or plan to leave lose ends like Zacarias Moussaoui at all?
you guys dont know what you believe. you seem to want us to believe the planners felt the nest way to pull of this wide conspiracy was to use smart bomb engineers to place explosives in the towers for phase 1......yet used insane fools and patsys for phase 2 hijack the planes and then leave lose ends like Zacarias Moussaoui as part fo this devious plan to have someone get busted.
I second that. After ConPlan
I second that. After ConPlan 8022, the leaked memo for a new resolution against iran till june, and other suspicious things, I'm not even able to decide how far fetched it looks.
I tried, and failed to
I tried, and failed to educate a New York forum of Broadway babes. Thanks to those who came to my aid. The thread, which made 100 posts and had 2200 views, makes depressing reading. Not one of the 'luvvies', as we say in the UK, doubted the official version.
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=891029&boardna...
strange site you found there
strange site you found there valis...
Anyone know anything about "Ken Welch"?
http://www.ken-welch.com/
Agreed, inside. Very WEIRD
Agreed, inside. Very WEIRD site. Not really so ... um ... academic.
"You guys dont know what you
"You guys dont know what you believe."
Well there are so many of us, perhaps we all don't have exactly beliefs or theories. Apparently you think that makes all our arguments invalid.
What we do believe is the government is not telling the truth about 9-11.
Have you finished theorizing about WTC 7 yet, Glenn?
Let me guess, Osama knocked it down through mental telepathy?
Man, if only we could have secretly wiretapped him before 9-11 to figure out the plan!
I don't claim to know what
I don't claim to know what happend on 9/11, but I do know, without a doubt, that the offical story is bullsh*t. WTC7 is the smoking gun. No way that building drops like it did.
Hello, I'm here from C&L and
Hello, I'm here from C&L and Americablog, which refuse to have any thread questioning 9/11.
I guess the greatest revenge
I guess the greatest revenge on this conspiracy is nothing will come of it.
the fact they get so excited about charlie sheen is a key right there. when the biggest outlet you guys get is charlie sheen mentioning it then......you are in trouble.
thats not me being mean, its really goes to show you lack credibility and get excited about any desperate mention on gossip TV.
we will all be alive on the net for many years.
NOTHING will ever come from your 9/11 Ideas.
and that quite frankly is the greatest judgement of this conspiracy.
history wont buy it.
Moussaoui is claiming that
Moussaoui is claiming that the goal was to secure the release of the blind sheikh.
If this were true, wouldn't the demands of the terrorists have been passed on to the proper channels PRIOR to the hijackings? Similarly, as "proof" of the hijackers demands, there would have been recordings, and these recordings could have "sealed the deal" in the eyes of John Q Public.
Atta's distinctly "unfundamental" behaviour, as well as being the "lead" hijacker, suggests that he was working towards an aim other than the one that the "faithful" were told.
Sounds like Moussaoui's a patsy to me, and this probably is true of more than one of the hijackers, while Atta, and others that were less than "devout" were in on something bigger (whether they knew of the gov't complicity or not).
The Eight of Spades PSYOP &
The Eight of Spades PSYOP & Strategic Deception
Harry Potter isn't the only one with an invisibility cloak.
http://www.kucinich.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=24653#24653
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about
things that matter." -Martin Luther King Jr.
Glenn, Daniel Ellsburg and
Glenn, Daniel Ellsburg and Ray McGovern among other more political luminaries, have questioned the official 9/11 version.
I think Charlie Sheen is just the first Hollywood person to step up.
Copy and paste this entire
Copy and paste this entire thing with the subject line "Charlie Sheen's Challenge to Cowards" to the following:
mike@michaelmoore.com
AMERICAblog@starpower.net
scoop@huffingtonpost.com
and any other's you think should be added:
Charlie Sheen's Statement to the London Guardian
Challenges Press to Stop Slinging Mud, Confront The Science
Prison Planet.com | March 27 2006
Charlie Sheen felt compelled to respond to one of many hit-pieces against him, a column written for the London Guardian and carried by British commonwealth newspapers worldwide. Sheen sent his statement to The Australian newspaper. This is his full statement minus a phone number to his manager so that the paper could confirm its authenticity. This is a direct challenge for them to debate the facts.
Sheen Challenge to Media
I dare you to print this email in it's entirety ...
The mere fact that you did a cut and paste job of the slanderous and idiotic Marine Hyde London Journal piece, speaks volumes about your credibility as a major media entity.
Like so many other mainstream outlets, domestically and abroad, no attention whatsoever is given to the questions I raise or the evidence that stimulated those very questions.
Instead, low-brow idiotic hit pieces are spewed forth in an effort to sway the readers' opinion of the messenger while blatantly disregarding any of the potentially valuable content of the story. It's transparent sandbox propaganda as dated and cheap as the paper it's printed on.
Do a little research on Building Seven. Building Seven lives at the epicenter of my entire debate. Prove yourself worthy of genuine investigative journalism. Look at the video evidence.
Observe the same data I have. Submit a formal request to the Pentagon or the DOD to release video PROOF that flight 77 did exactly as they claim. You will be stonewalled. You will be dismissed unconditionally. If there is nothing to hide - why are they hiding it?
To avoid any confusion - I reiterate:
Building Seven - Pentagon video documentation.
If any portion, or portions of this text is any way deleted or manipulated, you will only confirm what myself and countless others have suspected all along: Media complicity with no interest in the truth.
A CNN poll at the time of this writing currently sits at 84 percent IN SUPPORT of my views.
Say what you must about me - it means nothing.
Yet, if you continue to overlook the hard questions and physical evidence regarding 9/11 - you only confirm what so many of us "Conspiracy Idiots" have suspected all along - The Official Report is, at best, an insulting work of FICTION.
Respectfully,
Charlie Sheen
___________________________________---
Alex Jones Comment on Sheen Statement and Challenge: Hundreds of positive and negative pieces have been written about actor Charlie Sheen's courageous stand for 9/11 truth.
The pro-Sheen pieces are well written and are brimming with facts, studies and in-depth investigations by concerned, caring people who know that the official fable of Septmeber 11 is a patent fraud.
Conversly, the snivelling hit-pieces are written at a snot-nosed 7th Grade level by jibbering establishment sychophants. These individuals refuse to challenge any of the facts that Charlie Sheen and others have raised concerning the 9/11 massacres.
There's a reason for that: they can't. If they look into that painful place where 3,000 Americans died, the place where the death of our Republic began, the tomb where the spectre of totalitarianism rose, they will be looking into the eyes of their masters -- those who caried out the attacks and those who seek in vain to hide the truth from the people that they would have as slaves.
Most people on the planet today know in their gut the truth about 9/11. Once you look at the facts, there is no denying the cold, hard data.
So, try as you may, establishment, the truth about 9/11 is coming out. The majority of you out there who are fighting to supress the truth about 9/11 may not have taken part in it, but by defending those who did you all become accomplices. So before you dismiss us, you had better investigate.
There are hundreds of prominent people in the US who have already gone public and there will be hundreds more. Charlie Sheen, no matter what mud you sling at him, is a hero for what he has done. He's the archetypal example of what a leader is.
The founding fathers were wealthy, successful men at the highest level of the British colonial government. They put it all on the line so their descendants could live in liberty. They knew what tyranny was when they saw it.
Do you?
___________________________________-
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/270306sheenstatement.htm
Wow, I'm honored to have the
Wow, I'm honored to have the future dictated to me by you, Glenn. Please, tell me your secret.
I don't really care so much if you have any credentials to run your mouth about history, which I sort of doubt you do, but your reticence is understandable.
I don't hold it against you. I just hope that your conscience is a little stronger than your resolve to believe everything the government tells you. Either of us could have been one of the 2,700 that day.
Go take a look at building 7. http://www.st911.org is a good start. Then we'll talk.
Otherwise, you're wasting our time and using the same worn strategy that didn't work on Charlie Sheen.
I don't share your opinion, and as any historian would agree, I'd like to just let you in on the fact that history is a subjective field. Therefore, it is impossible to get a completely unbiased interpretation of any one event as soon as historical analysis is involved.
I can assure that historians will be writing and publishing on 9-11 for years to come. If you think that history will judge 9-11 at face value after the mess that has been created since then, I'd advise you to do some more reading and thinking.
Didn't the movie JFK come out nearly 30 years after the assassination? Yeah, I thought so. Don't think the book's closed on that one yet, either.
hi hadnf! and welcome :)
hi hadnf! and welcome :)
Thanks. I realize that this
Thanks.
I realize that this is a hard sell for you here. It is for me too, and I grew up with the asassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK, and Malcolm X, the killings of innocents at Kent state, and the BS of the Cold War.
But what I learned is that you can never truly trust governments.
Not sure why my posts aren't
Not sure why my posts aren't showing up?
Monsier and Glenn...put it this way: if data the 9/11 skeptics have on their side were really so outlandish and nutty, the nay-sayers would not even feel compelled to respond to it. Kind of like when the great Canadian senator called Bush a moron and people literally freaked. If it was so ridiculous and out of the question, it would be laughed at or not given any response. But since its so close to the truth, people were angry and respond with vigorous emotion, mouths wide open and eyes shut tight.
For example no one would even respond if someone said Albert Einstein was a moron. And no one would respond about 9/11 data if there wasn't a large, LARGE grain of truth to it.
First they laugh at you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win :) (Can't remember the exact wording of that quote but that's basically it).
re: Charlie Sheen
re: Charlie Sheen letter.
Ah, the Charlie Sheen meltdown has begun. Poor guy.
And Alex Jones is milking the ratings for all it's worth.
Ain't America great?
Hi all, Occam's Razor states
Hi all, Occam's Razor states the simplest explanation THAT ADDRESSES ALL QUESTIONS is usually the truth.
Meaning the simplest solution must address the airforce standdown and controlled demolition of three towers.
Unfortunately the government's conspiracy theory does not address any of that therefore it is invalid.
Sorry government shill's, your lies don't fly here.
re: Charlie Sheen
re: Charlie Sheen letter.
Ah, the Charlie Sheen meltdown has begun. Poor guy.
And Alex Jones is milking the ratings for all it's worth.
Ain't America great?
Doug Jansen | 03.27.06 - 4:10 pm | #
Ahh...and there you are I see typing from your comfortable little sofa, completely uneducated on 9/11 facts, bashing Sheen & Jones with your eyes sewn shut. So transparent, so tiresome...ain't it great?
barf.
Huh?
Huh?
Occum's razor is on the 9/11
Occum's razor is on the 9/11 Skeptics side. Looking at any crime (in this case, 9/11) the simplest explanation is usually correct. The simplest explanation is that the prime suspects of any crime are always those who benefited the most. Who benefited the most from 9/11? Not bin Laden, not the middle east, not 19 amateur hijackers.
Sorry, I didnt see that it
Sorry, I didnt see that it was Doug who posted that, thought it was the troll being sarcastic. My apologies.
BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7
BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7 BUILDING 7
Here is World Trade Centre Building 7 being demolished on 9/11/2001
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/uploads/wtc7-demolition.gif
It was not hit by a plane and the laws of physics can not be suspended because you say so.
Here is the science http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/BilliardBalls.html
What is the hard part to understand? Just because you refuse to research the proof doesn't mean it's not proof. The official story was given, the evidence proving the official story is a lie is here and it's up to you to bring forth the science to counter this data.
Enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC. If you aren't willing to research the domestic enemies, then you aren't a patriot. You owe it to your families and your country to put all coolness aside, humble yourself for a moment and be men.
watch the video and deal with what's going on http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7772696530684663669&q=loose+cha...
To quote Jackson
To quote Jackson Browne:
I've been waiting for somethin to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headline
and the sound of the croud in m ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that you've seen it before
Where a government lies to her people
And a country is drifting to war
Theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interests run
On the radio talk shows and the T.V.
You hear one thing again and again
How the U.S.A. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire
...
They sell us the President the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire
Nice response from Charlie!
Nice response from Charlie!
As for Moussaoui, they always choose mentally unstable individuals with delusions of granduer as potential patsies.
If the recent exposure of 911 truth gets out of control ( their control that is) beware of a random " 911 truth seeker" doing something violent and stupid in order to label the entire movement with his crimes. Most likely he will be shown to be a neo-nazi so they can use the anti-semitism angle on us( which they have already tryed). More importantly, even if that doesn't stick, it will demonstrate the dangers of openly questioning 911 in public on the minds of a an ignorant/gullible public.
They will say or imply:
" Your facts are fine, but even if they are true, it is just too dangerous to openly question our government in this manner, You may be responsible citizens but the audience to your views are not, therefore do the responsible thing and shut up."
Remember the stategy of Cointelpro which is in the public record.
-Use the natural paranoia of members of these groups to divide them.
-Incite members to violence so we may crack down on the whole movement and relate their cause and views with potential violence against ordinary citazens
Their efforts to paint a dead Osama Bin Laden as a liberal progressive in his recent letters is a good, but apparently unsuccessful, example of this technique
Whos site is this anyway? I
Whos site is this anyway?
I see downthread that you are getting lots of hits. That's because some devoted people have done well promoting this site on the blogs I've visited.
"NOTHING will ever come from
"NOTHING will ever come from your 9/11 Ideas.
and that quite frankly is the greatest judgement of this conspiracy.
history wont buy it.
Glen, you are quite correct. Before Y2K there were these folks called "Y2K Truth-Seekers" (see a pattern?) that were absolutely convinced that Y2K was going to be the end of the world. No amount of logic or scientific fact could dissuade them that the year 2000 wasn't going to be TEOCAWKI (The End Of The World as we Know It)
When 2000 came and went, these folks scuttled back under the rocks that they came from....until 9/11. It may not be the same exact people - but it is the personality trait.
It's the same mentality. Moussaoui is a shill, Bin Laden is a CIA agent, Bush is from the New World Order and Cheney is the Silver Surfer in a fat suit. Nothing you could possibly say is going to change their mind. So have fun with it...
It's the same mentality.
It's the same mentality. George Bush is a good President, Cheney is a good shot, Rumsfeld attends Church every Sunday and Condi is the next Republican Candidate for President of the United States. Nothing you could possibly say is going to change their mind. So have fun with it...
Then why don't you beat it
Then why don't you beat it Flanshill? And take your friends with you....
you guys dont want to admit
you guys dont want to admit it, but I think deep down you know how troubling for you the Zacarias Moussaoui news is.
but you are so far in your weird anti-government ideas that not even a member of jihad in custody admitting it was for allah will snap you out of it.its far too easy for you to fall back on old standbyes like "the patsy" or brainwashing.
but you have a problem....his name is
Zacarias Moussaoui.a member of a terrorist group.
not some secret group of old rich white guys.
It's not a problem at all.
It's not a problem at all. And thats what YOU fail to see. He was a PATSY. End of story. He was a patsy because he was parroting what he was told to do by higher ups. AND I DON'T RECALL ANYONE SAYING THERE WERE NO TERRORISTS. There most certainly are people out there who would like to harm American's. The question we ask is how they were recruited and used for other ends.
It's like you want us to take the drug trafficker on the corner of Main and First seriously when we are really talking about the Drug Kingpin in Columbia.
Get a life. Really go away.
Moussaoui also testified
Moussaoui also testified that he 'knew the towers would be hit.' How did he know this, if standard procedures would have called for the plane to intercepted likely shot down?
To repeat, Glenn, how did anyone plan to hit the White House, the Pentagon, and two large skyscrapers, all at once? Did they assume the White House, the Pentagon, and two large skyscrapers would be undefended?
9-11 LIHOP at Moussaoui
9-11 LIHOP at Moussaoui Trial
http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=132&fArticleId=3175907#
"completely uneducated on
"completely uneducated on 9/11 facts, bashing Sheen & Jones with your eyes sewn shut."
Actually, I am here to educate you on the facts.
Jones has already demonstrtaed that he can't come up with one piece of evidence. You know that, of course. He's full of unsupported assertions and Sheen is just parroting the same old debunked silliness of 9/11 conspiracists.
It's really quite something how gullible you guys are.
I've got a question for you
I've got a question for you Flanstein and Glen.....Did the people training in the mujahadeem camps in Afganistan in the 80's, know that they were being financially supported by the CIA.? This is an undisputable fact, but I doubt the ordinary men in these camps knew who was supporting them.
I just saw 911blogger's
I just saw 911blogger's promo on the CNN coverage from last week... I don't know if you guys know or not, but I was the one designed the logo for 911blogger.com...
That was my logo on NATIONAL TELEVISION
WOOOOOOO!!! Yay me!!!
And yes, 911blogger to... :)
Loud Stuff wrote, "Here is
Loud Stuff wrote,
"Here is World Trade Centre Building 7 being demolished on 9/11/2001
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/...- demolition.gif
"It was not hit by a plane and the laws of physics can not be suspended because you say so."
And they haven't been because you or any other 9/11 nutter says so, loudmouth.
You need some bloody evidence and you have none.
Some Muslims have been
Some Muslims have been driven mad by U.S. foreign policy.
Here in Chapel Hill, a Muslim man drove a rented SUV into students on the UNC campus a couple weeks ago. No one was seriously hurt, fortunately.
That NIST report you're
That NIST report you're linking to on the front page isn't new, it's from 2005.
"You need some bloody
"You need some bloody evidence and you have none."
About WTC 7 being demolished? You can just look at it and see that it was Controlled Demolition. The crimp, the straight fall, the speed of the fall...
Buildings don't disintegrate.
Hey, congratulations
Hey, congratulations Jon.
Why do trolls always think that they are "educating"? And then the "education" is always followed by insults?
YAWN.
Thanks.
Thanks.
There was a short video DL
There was a short video DL link in one of these talkbacks about a month ago. It was a close-up of WTC1 when WTC2 was hit and there were little explosions seen in WTC1 right at the same time the plane hit WTC2. Anyone have that link handy?
Talk about censorship...
Talk about censorship...
Jesus Motherfucking
Jesus Motherfucking Christ
Where have all these trolls come from?
Have any of them attended middle school yet?
These people need to go back to the sandbox and bury thier heads. Ignorance is bliss!
Doug, just because you don't
Doug, just because you don't want to look at the evidence, doesn't mean it's not there. Why are you scared to read it and debate the facts? All you do is type what you feel. None of us here give a shit about how you feel about 9/11. The science is here http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/BilliardBalls.html
Building 7 doesn't include planes, hijackers, confessions of a 5th plane or any other bullshit you clowns come up with.
Show me the science that a small fire can bring down a 47 story steel building with the biggest I beams ever made by man in 7 seconds symetrically into it's own footprint. And if it wasn't fire, show me the evidence of the NYFD being able to line the building with explosives in 8 hours.
awwwwww...can't do it? It's ok, neither can anyone else.
Now put up or shut up.
Yeah, the shills only attack
Yeah, the shills only attack with ridicule. They never answer the questions put forth. When they do though, they refer to something like the NIST Report. Hahahaha!
damn jon...that's fucked up
damn jon...that's fucked up over at crooksandliars.com
"[deleted - off topic. All 9/11 related posts can be made on the Open Thread. Please take it there.]
Edited By Siteowner"
what a joke.
4.5 years later and the
4.5 years later and the trillion dollar U.S. industrial/military complex has one unstable Arab to show for their efforts!!! This is bigger bullshit that the sure-thing WMDs!
The Moussaoui "trial" is nothing but staged nonsense to reinforce the myth that Osama & his 19 lackies brought the United States to its knees on 9/11.
Moussaoui is nuts, even his
Moussaoui is nuts, even his own mother admitted something was "different" about him. Look it up.
My post at C&L incase its
My post at C&L incase its deleted:
"[deleted - off topic. Any posts about 9/11 can be made on an Open Thread, take it there, please.]
Edited By Siteowner"
Where is it? Do you mean the one clear down at the bottom of the page from yesterday? Maybe you could start a new one at the top of the page to accomadate a large portion of your readers who post here?
And since you're here now, I'll ask, could you also explain why you won't post about the 9/11 elephant in the room that 84% of the public and a large majority of your readers want published and investigated?
Thanks.
Moussaoui's statements are
Moussaoui's statements are completely irrelevant. With Abu Graib and Gitmo in mind, I think after four and a half years imprisonment you can have Massaoui say that he shot Kennedy AND Oswald, no matter what he might or might not possibly gain from it. Doug, Glenn and other representatives of the sheeple might think his testimony is yet another piece of strong evidence in the case of 911. Funny how they completely ignore how Osama Bin Laden, the alleged mastermind of 911, always denied involvement in the events of 911 and actually stated it was a US government plot. Saying this, Doug, Glenn and likeminded will come up with Osama's 'confession' tape, and ignore the inconsistencies and contradictions of this clearly fabricated piece of crap.
Doug and Glenn don't want to read up on events leading up to 911, the events on the faithful day, and the events since 911. Doug and Glenn don't want to hear about NORAD and what it did and did not do, they don't want to think about why Bush wasn't rushed out of a classroom with a hijacked plane still in the air, they are not interested in the alien physics that pulverised three steel skyscrapers of which one wasn't even hit by an airplane.
Doug and Glenn just don't want to think about how they and their world would look after four and a half years of complete and utter denial. They want to keep on believing everything they know is true. And when the shit finally hits them in the face, they will frantically click their heels three times, and probably some more after that.
C&L was deleting posts and
C&L was deleting posts and inserting original attacks like [No posts about the 9/11 Sheen Brigade]
C&L will probably loose their advertising money from Netflix if they post anything out of the ordinary. $$$
No more name-calling? Gee,
No more name-calling? Gee, what would Jon Gold (and some other wolves in sheep dog's clothing who post here and who also just happen to support key portions of The Big Lie of 9/11) do if (t)he(y) couldn't call names?
The entire notion of "suicidal Muslim 'hijackers'" is completely unsubstantiated, to say the very least.
_______________________________________
lose*
lose*
Oy...
Oy...
blimpy, have you ever seen
blimpy, have you ever seen this?
Or how about these?
Or how about these?
By the way, V wasn't all
By the way, V wasn't all that hot. Try Fight Club instead.
Jon Gold wrote: "About WTC 7
Jon Gold wrote:
"About WTC 7 being demolished? You can just look at it and see that it was Controlled Demolition. The crimp, the straight fall, the speed of the fall... "
That's an absurd statement. You can't just "look at it" and declare it was controlled demolition.
Where did you ever come up with that idea????
DHS: In my dream, Jackson
DHS: In my dream, Jackson Browne teams up with Charlie Sheen to host an event. After all, he did No Nukes. Any connects?
Rummy just visited the Flt. 93 crash site in Shanksville and spoke at the war college there.
"That's an absurd statement.
"That's an absurd statement. You can't just "look at it" and declare it was controlled demolition.
Where did you ever come up with that idea????"
You're right. You're 100% right. You need to analyze the evidence.
Flanstein, you
Flanstein, you said:
""
Glen, you are quite correct. Before Y2K there were these folks called "Y2K Truth-Seekers" (see a pattern?) that were absolutely convinced that Y2K was going to be the end of the world. No amount of logic or scientific fact could dissuade them that the year 2000 wasn't going to be TEOCAWKI (The End Of The World as we Know It)
""
A Google search on "Y2K Truth-Seekers" returns exactly 7 results, with five of the results being copies.
It was the U.S. government that was scare-mongering that the turnover from 1999 to 2000 could very well be the end of the world as we know it, and was hyping up the Y2K event for all it was worth in order to get in more police state and martial law powers. Before the 2000 turnover, Alex Jones was saying all along that the Y2K event was being hyped up by the U.S. government to scare the masses to go along with more police state usurpations.
The U.S. government has been training its troops and foreign NATO and U.N. military for a long time (i.e., well before the U.S. government-staged 9/11 attacks or Y2K) in putting U.S. citizens in concentration camps and for total gun confiscation.
Watch Alex Jones's first two Police State video documentaries (both published well before the U.S. government-staged 9/11 attacks) where you can see U.S. troops training with U.N. troops in disarming American citizens and putting them into concentration camps, and anouncing over their loudspeakers: "Be calm, there is food, there is water in the camp ... violation of camp rules will not be tolerated ..."
They had American role-players screaming back at the U.S. and foreign U.N. troops, "I'm an American! I'm an American! You can't do this to me! I have rights!"
On Alex Jones's first two Police State video documentaries you can see many more of these training exercizes conducted in other cities and towns. Below you can watch Alex Jones's first two Police State videos in full and for free:
Police State 2000:
http://www.archive.org/details/PS2000
Police State II: The Takeover:
http://www.archive.org/details/PoliceStateII
There have literally been hundreds of these type of training exercizes going on in the U.S. since the early 1990s. For example, see:
Operation Urban Warrior, Oakland, California 1999:
http://www.infowars.com/ouwmar9901.html
---
http://www.infowars.com/Images/newouw/foreign_troops.jpg
Australian, British and other foreign troops training with U.S. troops for total gun confiscation of U.S. citizens and in rounding up U.S. citizens into concentration camps at Operation Urban Warrior, Oakland, California 1999
---
For more on this subject, see below:
"U.S. Can Confine Citizens Without Charges, Court Rules," Jerry Markon, Washington Post, September 10, 2005; Page A01:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR200509...
"Reagan Aides and the 'Secret' Government," Alfonso Chardy, Miami Herald, July 5, 1987:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/secret_white_house_plans.htm
"Martial Law Concerns," Congressman Jim McDermott, House of Representatives, March 11, 2003:
http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp030311.shtml
Below are some archives for mainstream major media news articles dealing with these gulag matters:
Primary Prison Planet Mainstream-Media News Archive on FEMA Concentration Camps:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_concentration_camps.html
FEMA Camps/Martial Law Archive:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_fema.html
Habeas Corpus Archive:
The below archived news articles deal with how the U.S. government is currently indefinitely holding U.S. citizens who have not been charged with any crime, and how U.S. citizens in general can be tried by a secret military tribunal where they will not have the right to cross-examine their accusers, and they can be executed in secret:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_habeas.html
Model States Emergency Health Powers Act (which has been passed on the Federal level) Archive:
The below news articles talk about how the U.S. government can quarantine whole cities and round U.S. citizens up to be put in concentration camps in the event of, e.g., a bio-weapons release:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_modelstates.html
Below are some additional documentation resources to learn more about the FEMA concentration/extermination camps in the U.S.:
http://infowars.com/goodphotos.html
"Concentration Camps in Okanagon County?," Associated Press (via KXLY News), February 25, 2003:
http://www.kxly.com/common/getStory.asp?id=26857
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_022703_camps.html
Interview of Okanogan County Commissioner Dave Schulz:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/schultz_02_27_03.mp3
And see also:
"Foundations are in place for martial law in the US," Ritt Goldstein, Sydney Morning Herald, July 27, 2002:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html
And definitely see my below Anti-State.com posts on this matter:
"FEMA Death-Camps":
http://anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=3800
Why did pockybot post some
Why did pockybot post some ridiculous b.s. in the thread just below this one? (His is the 3rd message from the bottom there.)
To "Anonymous", who was
To "Anonymous", who was looking for the video clip:
Explosions visible in WTC1 just as WTC2 is hit (4 meg Quicktime)
http://internal.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/outofthesk...
Why did pockybot post some
Why did pockybot post some ridiculous b.s. in the thread just below this one? (His is the 3rd message from the bottom there.)
Anonymous | 03.27.06 - 6:26 pm | #
Hi Pockeybot. Please go home. You're so transparent.
police state? oh blah.
police state? oh blah. cripes sake there were protestors who threw rocks and bottles at the republican convention no less and they were let off with no charges.
and now it seems everytime a republican or right leaning person speaks anywhere they get heckled or a pie in the face.
if you ask me,all the brownshirts seem to be on the left side of things.
you may laugh about a pie in the face and call it a prank, but actually its a form of violence...they dont want someone who doesnt agree with them to say what they want to say.
and as I am looking at the links some of you post, its so obvious you guys arent like your regular joes on the street who look at the evidence objectively and decide. no you are the ani-government types given to conspiracys.
and now with each new development you are forced to make your theory more wisespread. you are adjusting as now with the Moussaoui info.
patsy? the only REAL person ironically is Moussaoui.
yet the brainwashed patsies seem to be on these boards. hows that for a turn of events?
Hey Glenn... read this, and
Hey Glenn... read this, and just so you know, Peter Dale Scott is not a dumb man.
No comments on the facts
No comments on the facts Glenn?
Put up or shut up!
Sorry... read this.
Sorry... read this.
police state? oh
police state? oh blah.
Right, why don't you do some research on Critical Mass and get back to us.
"That's an absurd statement.
"That's an absurd statement. You can't just "look at it" and declare it was controlled demolition"
If you're a 9/11 "truth-seeker" you can. Their "research" is done on the Internet and they "know" the "real truth". If you disagree you are a "stooge of the necons".
Who said comedy was dead?
Americablog normally has 5-6
Americablog normally has 5-6 open threads a day been since the Sheen story broke they've only been doing one or two and today only one morning open thread. CrooksandLiars tell you to take your 9/11 stuff to the open thread but he's pushed it off of the front page and won't open another one. How strategic. Also, if you look on the ads at C&L on the right hand side, they are advertising the 9/11 Sheen story along with a website!! These fucking super-capitalists will do anything for a buck, its pretty sick.
Can somebody ban these
Can somebody ban these trolls who keep distracting us? If thats not the policy thats okay too, but incase you wanted some encouragement to take out the trash, thought I'd give it to you.
Monday, Mar 27 Daryl Smith
Monday, Mar 27
Daryl Smith and Eric Hufschmid go on a rant:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/Smith27Mar2006.mp3
andi said, "Can somebody ban
andi said,
"Can somebody ban these trolls who keep distracting us?"
Trolls??
I see a bunch of people here like Flanstein and others trying to educate you guys on facts and help you out of your present difficulties.
The outrageous claims made here by uneducated 9/11 conspiracists is enough to attract rational people here to give you all the help you need.
anonymous, do you get lonely
anonymous, do you get lonely up there on your pedestal?
"The outrageous claims made
"The outrageous claims made here by uneducated 9/11 conspiracists."
Sorry, your talking points don't work anymore. The vast majority of the public are with us on this.
Please do not ban anyone!
Please do not ban anyone! This should be an open debate, if Glen and Flanstein aren't willing to look at the facts or have a real debate about them, our responses to their allegations is educational to those that are reading but not posting on our comments. Thats a good thing.
They still haven't answered my simple question.
I'm waiting.
Here's some help for Loud
Here's some help for Loud Studios.
1. The "billard ball" theory was debunked already. She got here physics wrong and collapse times wrong. See http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf and http://www.911myths.com/Energy_Transfer_Addendum.pdf for some proper physics.
2. "Building 7 doesn't include planes, hijackers, confessions of a 5th plane or any other bullshit you clowns come up with."
Totally irrelevant.
3. "Show me the science that a small fire can bring down a 47 story steel building with the biggest I beams ever made by man in 7 seconds symetrically into it's own footprint."
You're about 2.5 years behind in your reading of debunked 9/11 conspiracy sites. There were many fires burning uncontrolled for 7 to 8 hours after the collapse of the north tower severly damaged tower 7 structurally. There was NO water to fight the fires and the firemen knew that it was likely to fall and evacutaed themselves 2 hours before it did collapse.
Now, the real question is why you don't know these facts. Are you willfully ignorant, haven't done any research, believe what you are told, or just in denial?
Rational is believing a
Rational is believing a tower with steel framing collapsed on its own in perfect free-fall with no plane hitting it and very minimal fire?
You continue to hang yourself with your own arguement. You need your head examined.
"Sorry, your talking points
"Sorry, your talking points don't work anymore. The vast majority of the public are with us on this."
Irrelvant to the facts. Sorry to have to remind you.
"anonymous, do you get
"anonymous, do you get lonely up there on your pedestal?"
It's a lecturn. I help the uneducated.
"if Glen and Flanstein
"if Glen and Flanstein aren't willing to look at the facts or have a real debate about them."
It should be apparent that they are asking YOU to look at the facts. Are you so unwilling to do that?
cnn is talking about 911
cnn is talking about 911 again...
theyre talking about the
theyre talking about the poll...
Hey all, don't let the
Hey all, don't let the trolls stifle your activism. Get out and spread the truth.
what facts are you talking
what facts are you talking about???
On another note, PLEASE, do
On another note, PLEASE, do not use the term "newbie' or "elders" when refering to the 911 truth movement. It sounds like we're a f*cking fraternity.
Please get your persona/social self esteem in other ways. We're here to potentially save our country and our democracy by exposing the truth of 911.
"Get out and spread the
"Get out and spread the truth."
I am. So is Flanstein and Glenn.
anonymous, you are indeed an
anonymous, you are indeed an uneducated 9/11 conspiracist. But unlike you, I and others like me who care about the truth do not believe in any conspiracy theories, such as the U.S. government's lying, self-serving, a-historical, a-factual, and provably false official fairy tale conspiracy theory concerning the 9/11 attacks.
One can make a conclusive case proving the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks even without any physicalist inquiry into the plane crashes or collapsed buildings (even though the case for that is conclusive), i.e., via historical inquiry into the public record in conjunction with deductive reasoning. For example, in regard to such facts as listed below:
- The PNAC document in 2000 calling for "a new Pearl Harbor" as a pretext for Middle-East domination;
- the fact that the October 2001 Afghanistan invasion was planned months beforehand (thus, the U.S. government was certain months before the 9/11 attacks that a pretext would present itself allowing the U.S. government to invade Afghanistan, and lo and behold such a pretext arives right on time);
- the fact that the supposed hijackers weren't Muslim extremists but did cocaine, hired prostitutes, drank alcohol, partied hard, etc.;
- the fact that many of the supposed hijackers were trained on U.S. military bases and had their legal residences on U.S. military bases;
- the fact that the supposed hijackers apparently knew that they had protection from the highest levels of the U.S. government and repeatedly went out of their way to draw attention to themselves as crazed, potential terrorists, as if to build a "legend" back-story;
- the fact that the many FBI agents attempting to invastigate these supposed hijackers were repeatedly and consistently blocked and ordered not to investigate these supposed hijackers, despite forceful protestations from said FBI agents that terrorist attacks were going to happen;
- the fact that U.S. government agents who tried to investigate the supposed hijackers were persecuted yet those in the government who blocked the investigations were promoted and given bonuses;
- the fact that many of these FBI agents went to David Schippers, the former Chief Council for the House Judiciary Committee, informing him (in an attempt to try and get something done) about the planned terrorist attacks and that they were threatened with the National Security Act not to pursue their cases and not to talk about them;
- the fact that David Schippers tried to get high-level functionaries (such as John Ashcroft) in the U.S. government to listen to him but they weren't interested;
- the fact that Osama bin Laden is a protected CIA asset and that before the 9/11 attacks a number of governments offered to arrest Osama and turn him over to the U.S. government but every time the U.S. government wasn't interested, despite the fact that he was supposedly wanted in connection to a number of previous terrorist attacks;
- the fact that the U.S. government worked with, supplied and used Osama's al-Qaeda terrorist network against the Serbian government all the way up into at least 1998, despite the fact that Osama was supposedly wanted in connection to a number of previous terrorist attacks.
And the list of such facts documented by the mainstream major media news articles and in primary documentation (such as the PNAC report) go on and on and on. The above is barely even scratching the surface on such facts as can be found in the mainstream public record. Add to that the fact that the U.S. government has a well-documented history (i.e., modus operandi) of staging such Hegelian dialectical PsyOps attacks as the Pearl Harbor attack, Operation Northwoods (which although didn't go forward due to John F. Kennedy, all the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff approved it for implementation), the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, etc., etc.
For mainstream documentation on the above facts, as well as on more such facts, see the below documentation resources:
The below post by me contains the November 10, 2003 article "September 11--Islamic Jihad or Another Northwoods?" by Tim Howells, Ph.D., which is a very good, short introduction to just some of the more damning mainstream major media articles and U.S. government primary documentation which proves up one side and down the other that the 9/11 attacks and the following anthrax attacks were a Hegelian dialectical PsyOp staged by the U.S. government as a pretext in order to obtain more power and control. I append my own additional endnotes at the conclusion of Dr. Howells' article, in order to add further mainstream documentation.
From: James Redford
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.education,alt.education.alternative,alt.education.research,misc.education
Subject: The U.S. Government Staged the 9/11 Attacks
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:49:56 GMT
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.college/msg/cdb2f90b15ea3233?dmode=so...
http://www.geocities.com/psyop911/tim-howells-september-11-islamic-jihad...
And:
The Truth About the 9/11 Attacks:
http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride/ (Note that this website by me hasn't been updated in a long time, so some of the links on it have gone dead. You can use http://www.archive.org to revive some of the dead links.)
For more on government-staged terrorism, see the below post by me:
"Documentation on Government-Staged Terrorism," September 30, 2005:
http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2&mforum=libertyandtruth
Keep it coming Mr. Redford.
Keep it coming Mr. Redford. I've greatly apppreciated all of your posts.
Let me give you some real
Let me give you some real help, James.
"anonymous, you are indeed an uneducated 9/11 conspiracist."
No, James, don't lie. You are the one promoting a 9/11 conspiracy.
"But unlike you, I and others like me who care about the truth do not believe in any conspiracy theories, such as the U.S. government's lying, self-serving, a-historical, a-factual, and provably false official fairy tale conspiracy theory concerning the 9/11 attacks."
You do NOT care for the truth. That is obvious from your repetition of lies and debunked conspiracy theories. You fool NO one.
"One can make a conclusive case proving the U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks even without any physicalist inquiry into the plane crashes or collapsed buildings..."
You just proved that you are lying about 9/11. ALL 9/11 conspiracists claim that the "phyical" evidence proves 9/11 was a government conspiracy.
But, to your endless misfortune, you cannot make a case on the science that sticks.
"(even though the case for that is conclusive), i.e., via historical inquiry into the public record in conjunction with deductive reasoning."
Since you KNOW every physicist, structural engineer, chemist, and forensic scientist knows that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, you find it necessary to evade the overwhelming physical and scientific evidence against you.
"The below post by me contains the November 10, 2003 article "September 11--Islamic Jihad or Another Northwoods?" by Tim Howells, Ph.D., which is a very good, short introduction to just some of the more damning mainstream major media articles and U.S. government primary documentation which proves up one side and down the other that the 9/11 attacks and the following anthrax attacks were a Hegelian dialectical PsyOp staged by the U.S. government as a pretext in order to obtain more power and control. I append my own additional endnotes at the conclusion of Dr. Howells' article, in order to add further mainstream documentation."
Sure. And the sun orbits the earth.
It's too bad you are so gullible and clueless about physical reality, But then all 9/11 conspiracists are.
Get yourself an education, James.
You're right...it did help
You're right...it did help me see how delusional you are. You honestly think adding 2 seconds to the collapse time ends the debate and confirms the official story? hahahahahaha
Yes guys, my BBQ melts everytime I use it and my new company match stick demolition is about to start trading on Wall Street.
Your scientific debate has got no jam.
Building 7 doesn't include planes, hijackers, confessions of a 5th plane or any other bullshit you clowns come up with.
"Totally irrelevant."
Uhh..no. Completely relevant. It is you avoiding the debate and the reality of having to deal with the fact that you've been duped.
Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7 Building 7
"There were many fires burning uncontrolled for 7 to 8 hours after the collapse of the north tower severly damaged tower 7 structurally."
Sorry denial boy, but this is an uncontrolled fire http://bellaciao.org/en/IMG/jpg/madrid_fire.jpg
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/april2005/060405madrid.jpg
And this is building 7
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/uploads/wtc7-demolition.gif
You're delusional...period.
"There was NO water to fight the fires and the firemen knew that it was likely to fall and evacutaed themselves 2 hours before it did collapse."
The fire department knew the building was going to fall? I bet miss Cleo has got a much better paying job for those guys.
Denial boy, no steel framed building has EVER collapsed symetrically in history due to fire. The building was not hit by a plane and contrary to your belief, the building was not compromised by falling pieces from the towers. Even though the majority of the pulverized pieces were thrown upward and outward in your new world physics...they didn't reach half a block away to building 7. So, NO, they did not possibly know it was going to fall....unless it was a controlled demolition.
It's too bad you are so
It's too bad you are so gullible and clueless about physical reality, But then all 9/11 conspiracists are.
Get yourself ,[indoctrinated], James.
anonymous
Fixed your post again.
Monday, Mar 27 Daryl Smith
Monday, Mar 27 Daryl Smith and Eric Hufschmid go on a rant:
Wow. These guys need to do less neo-Nazi b.s. & more 9/11 truth movement.
I think another point that
I think another point that does away with the conspiracy is the fact that buildings other than the WTC collapsed. seriously....what would be the point for the conspiracy planners? what, was that a bonus?
Look at a map of the WTC
Look at a map of the WTC area. There were some buildings very close to the towers that did partially collapse. No implosions among them. WTC-7 was much further away.
Just a word from someone in
Just a word from someone in construction for Glen, Flanstein, ect. If you guys were on my jobsite talking out your ass about this we would laugh you right out the door. Fucking incompetents. Really if those buildings where my project and they collapsed in such a fashion long after the impact of the planes and molten metel was found at the bottom of the rubble pile and you guys keep insisting that the rest of the crew doesn't have grip. Out the door on your ass. Liars or incompetents are not tolerated.
Glenn, Are you referring to
Glenn,
Are you referring to the "planners" of the Iraq war?
The planners that promised we would find WMD in Iraq?
The planners that falsely connected Saddam to 911?
The planners that want us to believe that Saddam was supportive of Al Qaeda?
How about the planners that didn't plan for most post invasion scenarios?
Hey... no one's perfect.
I'm speculating here, but perhaps SOMETHING went wrong at Building 7.
Perhaps, the charges at Building 7 were supposed to go off when the North Tower collapsed.
You think Building 7 is a "point that does away with conspiracy"?
No... Building 7 is an unexplained collapse that proves that the official conspiracy theory is bunk.
Please, be a bit more precise in your posts. And.... why can't you bring yourself to use the term "Building 7"?
Oh yea, forgot about that
Oh yea, forgot about that sick joke WTC7. Thanks solar.
RC wrote.... "molten metel
RC wrote....
"molten metel was found at the bottom of the rubble pile."
Show us this "molten metal."
Loud Studios
Loud Studios wrote...
"You're right...it did help me see how delusional you are. You honestly think adding 2 seconds to the collapse time ends the debate and confirms the official story?"
Since the facts demonstrate that both towers did not need explosives to fall the way they did, you have the burden of proof.
And yes, neither WTC 1 or 2 fell at "free-fall" speeds.
Of course, your welcome to refute the independent science you desperately need to avoid:
http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
http://www.911myths.com/Energy_Transfer_Addendum.pdf
Don't freak out this time.
"Building 7 doesn't include planes, hijackers, confessions of a 5th plane or any other bullshit you clowns come up with."
> "Totally irrelevant."
"Uhh..no. Completely relevant. It is you avoiding the debate and the reality of having to deal with the fact that you've been duped."
You are avoiding the science, desperately so. You know full well that WTC 7 did not have to have a plane fly into it for it to collapse from the structural damage and the fires. You just can't stand admitting it.
Here's a reall corker from you!:
> "There were many fires burning uncontrolled for 7 to 8 hours after the collapse of the north tower severly damaged tower 7 structurally."
"Sorry denial boy, but this is an uncontrolled fire http://bellaciao.org/en/IMG/jpg/ ...madrid_fire.jpg
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ imag...60405madrid.jpg
"And this is building 7
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/...- demolition.gif"
This demonstrates the depth of your ignorance.
1. Two differently constructed buildings.
2. Madrid had a concrete core. WTC towers did not.
3. Madrid was not structurally damage by planes or from falling debris.
4. Despite those differences, the top 10 floors of steel framing collapsed:
http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1095
"You're delusional...period."
LOL. The depth of your ignorance and screw-ups on matters you have no capability in shows you're the best friend Bush ever had in discrediting your fellow 9/11 conspiracists.
"The fire department knew the building was going to fall?"
You missed the word "likely", didn't you Loud Studios?
"Denial boy, no steel framed building has EVER collapsed symetrically in history due to fire."
As we've already seen, you can't stand the fact that WTC7 was structurally damaged, therefore, as with all 9/11 conspiracists, you have to deny it.
"The building was not hit by a plane and contrary to your belief, the building was not compromised by falling pieces from the towers."
You see? You're in complete and utter denial.
Don't worry, Loud Studios, you're not the only one to show his complete ignorance of physics, structural engineering, and the evidence. You're just a clone of all the others who've been so easily debunked before you.
anonymous, you can find the
anonymous,
you can find the pictures of molten steel in dr. steven jones' recent paper, as well as firefighters talking about finding a room of what looked like molten lava under the WTC towers weeks after their collapses.. i believe that clip is in '9/11 revisited' at 911revisited.com
but that would require you pulling your know-it-all head out of your ass first.
"who would go to jail for
"who would go to jail for life or the death penalty and lose their own life for some rich white guys named Bush or some mysterious shadowey group? its the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas."
Good question.
Who would fly a plane into a building because of the freedom and liberty of a foreign nation? It's the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas.
"I have just shown that an
"I have just shown that an independant source, ie Zacarias Moussaoui has ADMITTED he was part of Al queda and it was a plan by terrorists."
Excellent post.
I thought you might enjoy similar confessions used in another trial- Salem.
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/salem/witchcraft/texts/BoySal1.html
Lots of witches confessing to lots of things. Must be true.
"Since the facts demonstrate
"Since the facts demonstrate that both towers did not need explosives to fall the way they did, you have the burden of proof."
you've shown about the same amount of facts as the 9/11 commision. 0
You can try ot debunk Hoffman all you want. I' never citied his paper once.
Why do you insist on trying to shift the debate ? Scared of dealing with your denial?
Now back on topic...
"You know full well that WTC 7 did not have to have a plane fly into it for it to collapse from the structural damage and the fires. You just can't stand admitting it."
You should try stand-up. That made my entire office literally roll on the floor laughing.
Ya, aparently pieces of the twin towers flew over building 7 and then flew back into the bottom of the building on the other side....that's how it got the = damage the side facing the towers did....and thus the symetrical fall.
Kind of reminds me of the Kennedy 1 bullet theory where the bullet flies all over the place hitting people before coming to a stop undamaged .......hahahahahahahaa. This is fun...the office can't wait to hear your next tall tale.
Building 7 was not hit by a plane and did not have any of these massive fires you like to base your conspiracy theories on. So whether the fire fighter said it was going to come down or it was likely going to come down, doesn't matter conspiracy boy. There are no examples in history to give him the knowledge to make the decision to say those words. Unless of course they were going to pull it.
"As we've already seen, you can't stand the fact that WTC7 was structurally damaged, therefore, as with all 9/11 conspiracists, you have to deny it."
prove it conspiracy boy....shut us all up by showing us the evidence building 7 had the = amount of dammage around the entire building in the basement and the throughout all the entire core.
You wouldn't happen to know where I can buy a BBQ that won't melt on me, would ya? Everytime I try to cook a roast the BBQ melts about 50 minutes in and I'm left with a roast that's just way to pink in the middle for me.
Don't worry, anonymous, you're not the only one to show his complete ignorance of physics, structural engineering, and the evidence. You're just a clone of all the others who've been so easily debunked before you.
Great site, I will be useing
Great site, I will be useing information from here on my own. Thankyou for your hard work!!!!!!!
Glenn, "I think another
Glenn,
"I think another point that does away with the conspiracy is the fact that buildings other than the WTC collapsed. seriously....what would be the point for the conspiracy planners? what, was that a bonus?"
You obviously have no clue as to what was in building 7. Try search for it, it tires me to do your work for you. Once you're done, humour me with the bonus bit again.
Anonymous, "Who would fly a
Anonymous,
"Who would fly a plane into a building because of the freedom and liberty of a foreign nation? It's the little things that trip up these conspiracy ideas."
You still think the Afghanistan and the Iraqi invasions were to bring freedom and liberty to those nations. Something tells me you need to get deeper into that subject first, before trying to make some sense about 911.
Loud studios, having had no
Loud studios, having had no training in much of anything, embarrassed himself onece again, and is easily debunked....
"Since the facts demonstrate that both towers did not need explosives to fall the way they did, you have the burden of proof."
"you've shown about the same amount of facts as the 9/11 commision. 0
You can try ot debunk Hoffman all you want. I' never citied his paper once."
I've already cited this, idiot:
http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
http://www.911myths.com/Energy_Transfer_Addendum.pdf
Now refute them or shutup.
> "You know full well that WTC 7 did not have to have a plane fly into it for it to collapse from the structural damage and the fires. You just can't stand admitting it."
"Ya, aparently pieces of the twin towers flew over building 7 and then flew back into the bottom of the building on the other side....that's how it got the = damage the side facing the towers did....and thus the symetrical fall."
There's nothing like proving me right, Loud Studios.
The damage to WTC 7 ws on the SOUTH side, nitwit. Debris from WTC 1, which was SOUTH of WTC 7 hit the SOUTH side of WTC 7.
No wonder you can't get ANYTHING right, Loud Studios.
Better get yourself a real education, son.