Open Thread

Start of the week, what's new?

Open thread, have at it!

Sorry if it is similar to

Sorry if it is similar to what you have stated previously.
RemoveBush | 04.10.06 - 3:52 pm

OK thats cool ! just coincidence but thats the same analogy I came up with one time on another forum. I was just wondering if maybe you had read it that's all. We cool man

Someone posted this Observer

Someone posted this Observer hit piece yesterday, it deserves another derisive mention;

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1749799,00.html

"Chaos and cock-up always trump conspiracy"

"...This all sounded like baloney to me. But just to be sure, I contacted respected British film-maker Paul Greengrass, who's putting the finishing touches on his thoroughly researched, fact-based docudrama, United 93. Greengrass's film made headlines last week when trailers were reportedly pulled from New York cinemas. But controversy surrounding the movie was first sparked by conspiracy theorists who insist that flight 93 was actually shot down by the US air force and who dismiss the 'official version' of events as a lie. '9/11 has replaced the Kennedy assassination as the epicentre of this great upsurge of conspiracy theories,' concedes Greengrass, 'and flight 93 is right at the heart of it. Do I believe those conspiracies? No. The stuff about the plane being shot down is simply not true. But you have to ask why a document as exhaustive and accountable as the 9/11 Commission report has failed to dispel these myths.'..."

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. This guy clearly has no idea... and the guy writing the article? OMG!

I would like to know the

I would like to know the prevalance of folks here who believe that real planes did not actually hit the WTC. Is this a commonly held believe amongst "truth-seekers"?

PDF of Tarpley's book

PDF of Tarpley's book Synthetic Terror, for those familiar with Rapidshare:
http://rapidshare.de/files/15543831/Tarpley-_911_synthetic_terror_made_i...

Ben Affleck: Bush "Probably

Ben Affleck: Bush "Probably Leaked [Valerie Plame's] Name... That's Treason"... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/10/ben-affleck-bush-probab_n_18825...

9/11 NY Aircraft

9/11 NY Aircraft 'Witnesses'

http://911closeup.com/nico/witness_contradictions.html

We are now living in what has been called the Age of Synthetic Terror. In contrast to the corporate media line, "terrorism" is the brainchild and product of western intelligence agencies. Its purpose is to foment domestic anger at Muslims in order to justify a program of a) invasion of sovereign nations, b) seizure of their oil resources, c) mass murder designed to look like sectarian violence, d) establishing permanent military bases and e) the installation of puppet governments in the countries so affected.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spine2.htm

No.

No.

From what I can tell, most

From what I can tell, most people believe planes hit the towers. I know I do.

Of course, everything is called into question when you realize that you've been lied to about some of it. But without definitive proof contradicting it, planes probably hit those towers.

My POV is to focus on what is provable, then once some politicians are tried for murder, figure out the rest.

"One, two, three, four,

"One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
Sclemeel, schlemazel, hasenfeffer incorporated.
We're gonna do it!"

:)

You know... I love the

You know... I love the movie, "BIG", as well as "A League Of Their Own".

Sure seems strange that

Sure seems strange that there has been no piece of evidence that could be tested for explosive residue. I read that bit from Jon Gold about testing that shirt from ground zero for asbestos. It seems feasible to me that in all the clean up or even by accident there remains somethng that could be tested. Myself, I am not an expert. Is there anyone here who could shed some light on this subject?

I was actually looking for

I was actually looking for exactly that a while ago: explosive residue in USGS studies.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/chem1/WTCchemistrytable.html
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/chem1/index.html
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/

Especially of interest was Girder coatings WTC 01-08 and WTC 01-09, which were the closest to the WTC Site, according to their sample collection map:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/sample.location.html
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/locmap10.29.01.large.gif

WTC 01-09 has some anolomolies, such as:

Cerium: 356 ppm
Yttrium: 243 ppm
Lanthanum: 175 ppm
Thorium: 30.7 ppm
Uranium: 7.57 ppm

To give you an idea of how unusual some of that is, Cerium's natural abundance on the Earth's crust is 33 ppm. So there was almost 10 times as much as normal on that girder.

Interestingly, many of those rare earth metals are used in mischmetal a type of flint, in incendiary devices (explosives), and in some unknown combinations in advanced military explosives and warheads. Some of that information is also mentioned on sites dealing with TWA 800, though it's been a while since I looked at it.

It would be interesting to have someone more knowledgeable about chemistry look at some of that.

Almost forgot: rare earth

Almost forgot: rare earth metals are also used to enhance the effects of thermite or thermate, though I need to do more research on that.

MSM article on Prof Jones'

MSM article on Prof Jones' most recent lecture:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html

Hey you guys... I stumbled

Hey you guys... I stumbled across a right-wing board, and posted this..

http://www.globalaffairs.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43726

Feel free to join in the fun.

The writer for the Observer

The writer for the Observer calls "United 93" a "docudrama".

How thoroughly researched and "fact-based" does a "docudrama" actually need to be?

Greengrass may as well have hired the "Airplane" producers...

"The white zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of Patsies--"

"No, Bob. The YELLOW zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of Patsies."

I believe that planes hit

I believe that planes hit the buildings. Anything is possible though.

I don't think its important to our cause. Could somebody please tell me how WTC7 came down that way without controlled demolition?

This is a little off topic,

This is a little off topic, but since this is an open thread........

Does anyone know of any site that has been collecting stories on the strange behavior of so called "homeland security agents." ? I know of three stories which seem to suggest that their criteria for making someone a federal agent of homeland security is might be a little lacking, to put it mildly. They seem like the brownshirts of the neocons.

Story 1- Three agents announce in public library that looking at porn on the internet is against federal law. They rough up a library customer and local police are called.

Story2- The driver of the million dollar car (LA Times) says he is a homeland security agent. The local police are thwarted by more so-called agents that arrive at the scene of the accident.

Story3- A school teacher is rough up and hancuffed in front of his students for asking an unidentified car to move while he was conducting traffic in front of the school. The two men in the car say they are HLS agents, refuse to move and assault him.

I noticed that the people

I noticed that the people directing traffic on Michigan Ave in Chicago were wearing OEM insignia which is Office Emergency Management.

I don't know if that's HLS but its certainly funded by HLS and something I hadn't seen before.

The crazies (Ray McGovern calls them) are carrying out their plan. Some people are trying to stop them. They need our help.

911 truth movement has tremendous upside potential. At least fighting the facists isn't boring and you can't live forever anyway.

Being a sheeple sucks.

is anyone familiary with

is anyone familiary with this site?

911 Myths

it's pretty comprehensive. hits all the common arguments.

sorry. that's

sorry. that's www.911myths.com

"It looks like thermite with

"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very clever idea,"

He really believes thermite caused the almost instant disintegration of the two 110 story towers? It seems to me he's setting himself up as a canard. The strategy is to have your friends expose your crimes. to get away with crimes, pretend to be a crimefighter.

Thermite is not an explosive...its a high temperature reaction.

There had to be a barometric bomb/mini nuke in both of the towers. Those destructions were unlike anything that could be produced with even a super powered thermite.

THe more I follow Prof Jones- the more I see him as a controlled opposition- even if he is controlled by someone who he would never suspect. Isn't the torch the illuminati symbol? or at least freemasons aka the liberty statue?

Some good stuff on that

Some good stuff on that site. He states that his intent isn't to disprove all theories about what happened.

A really good site would integrate some of that stuff from 911myths with other facts to present both sides. I mean, after all, all those "Our Take" sections on that site are pure speculation and theory too.

Also, it is my belief that

Also, it is my belief that 911myths.com is helpful to the cause of 9/11 research. Even if his angle is to try to disprove "9/11 conspiracy theories," at least he's actually doing research. That's better than almost all of the mainstream media and most Americans can say for themselves.

I think when you lay out all the facts that prove and disprove alternate theories, you still find that the truth does not match the official story.

Possibly a million people

Possibly a million people marching in the streets today. They're all demanding a new 9/11 investigation! Right? They are, aren't they?

The person calling

The person calling her/himself AmandaReconwith seems to be a gov't disinfo agent. He/she continually posts "no planes at the WTC" junk and, "there was no such person as Mark Bingham, no death records, no Soc Sec #" etc. His/her junk posts are all over the web.

I dont think Dr. Jones means

I dont think Dr. Jones means that controlled demolition didnt bring down the towers...but rather that Thermite was used to "cut through the steel" and i would love to see the video on this? Does anybody have a video of Dr. Jones last speech on Thermite?

That 9/11 Myth site is

That 9/11 Myth site is basically junk science & b.s.

yeah i think 911myth doesnt

yeah i think 911myth doesnt have anything on Jim Hoffman. i read www.911research.wtc7.com everyday because he is as objective as you possibly can be dishing both criticism to the govt and the 911 truth movement

You guy's gotta see this

You guy's gotta see this shit!!!!
http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/fitz-reveals-a-little-in-public-ap...

But he did answer questions about the challenge of seating a jury in a high-profile case and what he thought about the lengthiness of some federal prosecution cases, although in general terms.

Fitzgerald said prosecutors donÂ’t want uninformed jurors.

"If you can find someone in New York who doesnÂ’t know anything about the World Trade Center bombing, thatÂ’s probably the last person you want on your jury. TheyÂ’ve been living under a rock," he said.

"What you have to do is find someone who can put aside what theyÂ’ve heard from the media and recognize that cases are tried in the courtroom."

Thought I'd give a Heads up

Thought I'd give a Heads up in case someone missed it.

Prof. Jones is not a disinfo

Prof. Jones is not a disinfo agent, folks. He is a very dedicated man. I would trust him with my life.

There are new generations of thermite which have different properties from traditional thermite:

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/01/wo/wo_gartner012105.asp?p=1

TERRENCE: good to see you

TERRENCE:

good to see you came here and made the jump over from the universal movie forum....does this mean maybe you've opened your mind a bit?

anyways, like i said on that forum, the believers in the "no plane" theory are far and few between. i myself witnessed with my own eyes the 2nd plane impact. however, i still have trouble with that impact...it seems so fluid and fast, that my mind cant justify what my eyes see. however, since i dont think the technology yet exists to pull that kind of hoax off, i guess i have to believe my eyes.

Wow, thanks Fredrique. Did

Wow, thanks Fredrique. Did Tarpley ok that for redistribution?

9/11 Truth Advocates must

9/11 Truth Advocates must run for US Congress in November 2006

In a lot of States all it takes is a filing fee during the filing period. Contact your Secretary of State, or Election Board to find out what the requirements are in your State.

These are the Constitutional requirements:
(Article 1, Section 2, United States Constitution)
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Filing fees are probably different in different locations, it's $700 were I'm at.

Why run? To win...maybe, but there are a lot of reporters out there who would love to write about our issue, but can't without "an angle". If you are on the ballot, no matter how underfunded you are, you are a LEGITIMATE part of democracy...and if my calculations are correct you might get some "earned press".

Campaign however you can (keep your message simple, and repeat it thousands of times "stump speech"), but most importantly keep your local press informed about what you are doing, and CHALLENGE YOUR OPPONENTS on this issue. Sway the discussion.

Ohh yeah, if you win you'll get a $165,000/yr job with benefits, and a $1million budget to operate your office!

New Hampshire FYI: The "1st in the nation" presidential primary occurs in New Hampshire. It is a perfect opportunity to meet face to face with the potential 2008 presidential candiates...of course you know what that means. This month alone you could meet John McCain, Newt Gingrich, John Edwards, and George Pataki.
New Hampshire needs a 9/11 truth mobile for the next 2.5 years visiting these folks. Who's got some time and gas money? Keep an eye on this site for candidates schedule

Additional FYI about New Hampshire Candidate Gary Dodds:
A candidate (and trained paramedic) in New Hampshire's 1st district, who is doing very well in the polls, and states:
"I will work hard for you to make sure our government is held accountable." and wants "Full withdrawal of combat forces by end of 2006"
went missing in a strange set of events, (single car accident, swam across a river, found hours later, remembers nothing) luckily he was found and doing well. He might represent the district which ran this 9/11 article...and hosted this discussion. It is very possible he got a tour of the "rabbit hole".

Please contact Mr. Dodds, let him know you are glad he is alright, and that you believe in people who are willing to speak their mind.

Now for a little inspiration:
“They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year?” -Patrick Henry

He said this March 23, 1775 about a month before April 19 (the start of the revolutionary war)

"A man da recon with"--stop

"A man da recon with"--stop mixing fact with fiction like a disinfo artist. You post the above innocuous stuff, but then you post "holograms at WTC" & "no such person as Mark Bingham" garbage.

Namaste2you: Thanks for

Namaste2you: Thanks for that great quote! Its going in my next essay:)

check this out!!!! '1996'

check this out!!!!

'1996' Movie Shows A Government Agent Planning A Massive Terrorist Attack On American Soil

http://www.freepressinternational.com/long.444.kiss.8120.goodnight.8111....

"i still have trouble with

"i still have trouble with that impact...it seems so fluid and fast, that my mind cant justify what my eyes see. however, since i dont think the technology yet exists to pull that kind of hoax off, i guess i have to believe my eyes."

Yes, you do. The plane was going 500+ mph! What the hell is it supposed to look like? (Don't start with that cartoon planes at the WTC b.s.)

http://thewebfairy.com/911/sl

Terrence, The belief that no

Terrence,

The belief that no planes hit the towers is represented by a very small minority.

Unfortunately, the majority of 911blogger readers foolishly buy into the missile hit the Pentagon disinformation campaign.

http://phill.1accesshost.com/

Anonymous - I don't thinkt

Anonymous - I don't thinkt that its that people buy into a missile theory, but rather that there HAD to be more to it than just a plane hitting the Pentagon.

For me, I believe that a plane hit the pentagon, but I also beleive that there were explosives in the Pentagon as well as on the plane.

Even flying at 500MPH, the plane COULD NOT HAVE crashed through more than one, let alone the many walls it did.

I am torn between what the real answers are, but I definately belive that 9/11 was a MIHOP. A LIHOP could have been stopped, so in order to ensure that this plan went to completion they had to ensure it's success.

Just my 2 cents!

"For me, I believe that a

"For me, I believe that a plane hit the pentagon, but I also beleive that there were explosives in the Pentagon as well as on the plane.

Even flying at 500MPH, the plane COULD NOT HAVE crashed through more than one, let alone the many walls it did. "

i can understand your suspicions, but using the pentagon as an example to convince anybody is a very poor starting point imo. Lack of evidence does should not lead to extreme speculation such as missles or bombs. Alex Jones has spoken to one of the people who had tapes taken from the surveilance cameras. He claims they distincitly saw a passenger jet crashing into the pentagon on the video and they had no idea why the goverment demanded the copy of it.

Rumsfeld admits MISSILE hit

Rumsfeld admits MISSILE hit the Pentagon

http://www.democrats.com/node/5056

You have to always remember

You have to always remember what a terrific pilot Hani Hanjour was.

He wasn't very smart though because the nuclear plant on the river was a much better and easier to strike target.

Hani oh Hani oh Fly into the east . .

jim - may I ask your

jim - may I ask your educational background?

I am not saying that a passenger plane did not hit the Pentagon. I am saying that a plane alone could not have gone through 4 or 5 concrete reinforced walls without some kind of help.

Here's something you can try to help you understand the premise.

Throw a coke can at a brick wall as hard as you can. You will note that the can simply crumples and that there will be no noticeable damage to the wall.

Now I realize that this is a much larger scale, but the principal is still the same. Just look at the WTC. The planes hit them at the same speed, yet they did not come crashing through the buildings. In fact, they were destroyed within the building and there were not concrete reinforced walls within the building.

Now, do you really believe that a plane alone could go through all of the Pentagon walls without some kind of help from either planted explosives or a bomb on the plane?

ok first of all, how do we

ok first of all, how do we or the governent know hani hanjor was the actual pilot when the plane hit the pentagon? There is absolutely no way anyone could know this information.

secondly i've heard testimonies from several pilots, some of whom are part of the 9/11 truth movement claim those manuevers, while difficult, are not impossible to pull off, especially if you were not worried about crashing.

"Rumsfeld admits MISSILE hit the Pentagon"

i admit this is strange, but a missle didnt hit the pentagon, hundreds of witnesses saw a large plane including people i personally know. When you imply a missle hit the pentagon, it must mean all of the witnesses were either fake, lying, or part of the conspiracy, which is pretty much impossible.

"Now, do you really believe

"Now, do you really believe that a plane alone could go through all of the Pentagon walls without some kind of help from either planted explosives or a bomb on the plane?"

i dont know enough about the pentagon or planes to make any kind of assumption about this. my educational background on the subject is virtually zero. What i am saying is that all this pentagon stuff, not the stuff you said in particular (which is different from what most conspiracy people espouse) is a distraction from the real issue, and convolutes the 9/11 truth movement.

(sorry!)

(sorry!)

"ok first of all, how do we

"ok first of all, how do we or the governent know hani hanjor was the actual pilot when the plane hit the pentagon? There is absolutely no way anyone could know this information."

We don't! In fact, at least half of the hijackers are said to be alive. Why are there no Arab names on the flight manifests?

"secondly i've heard testimonies from several pilots, some of whom are part of the 9/11 truth movement claim those manuevers, while difficult, are not impossible to pull off, especially if you were not worried about crashing."

Sure if your an experience pilot, if that is true. Your talking about people who could not even fly a censna. You believe that people who could not fly a small plane could perform those kind of manuevers with a plane that size?

"Now, do you really believe

"Now, do you really believe that a plane alone could go through all of the Pentagon walls without some kind of help from either planted explosives or a bomb on the plane?"

the more i think about it, the more your point makes sense, however i still dont think anybody should be focusing on explosives. While i believe the WTC 7 seems imploded, as do the two twin towers. It almost instantaneously deflates my overall argument / points when trying to explain to someone the 9/11 coverup. Bringing up controlled demolition, especially to start with, usually makes hardened people stop listening to anything you say following.

I just feel that its time for the 9/11 truthers to come together, understand human psychology, and try to promote a cohesive and unified message that there is a huge 9/11 coverup going on and we want to know why.

jim, why should ANYTHING

jim, why should ANYTHING have been able to even get close the Pentagan that day, let alone a huge airliner slamming it? (How could Cheney not know there wasn't a small nuke or something on board...why wasn't it shot down???)Think about that!

Those Arab flunkies couldn't fly a Cessna, yet they do acrobatics with a jumbo jet. Come on!

Lastly, I don't recall any reports of "hundreds of witnesses" seeing a large plane hit the Pentagon. (And why were all the videos confiscated???)

jim/not jim, steel buildings

jim/not jim, steel buildings (WTC-7) do not turn into piles of rubble w/o explosives!

i sent you a link - where

i sent you a link - where did you read that hundreds of people saw a plane hit the pentagon.

the first report from the pentagon was a cnn reporter who said there was no sign of a large airliner at the crash site.

eyewitness evidence does not trump physical evidence. people see the virgin mary in oil stains on a concrete wall, actually thousands saw this.

"Here's something you can

"Here's something you can try to help you understand the premise.

Throw a coke can at a brick wall as hard as you can. You will note that the can simply crumples and that there will be no noticeable damage to the wall."

These words sound hauntingly familiar.
Did you lift those quotes from another forum? I said this exact same thing a couple of months ago on another forum.
Just wondering.
Except I said "Full Coke Can"

I'm currently reading

I'm currently reading Webster Tarpley's book 911 Synthetic Terror Made in USA, it's real good . I recommend this to all who read, he's pretty much got it figured out.

jimmy - I never heard or

jimmy - I never heard or read anyone else say this, but during my research I found an article that talks about the design of an air craft. The fact that there is no solid, hard, metal (other than the landing gear and engines) led me to this analogy for someone who does not understand physics.

Sorry if it is similar to what you have stated previously.

at least he's actually doing

at least he's actually doing research. That's better than almost all of the mainstream media

now ask yourself WHY would the mainstream media do it's very best to ignore and distract from 911?
____________

steel frame buildings don't

steel frame buildings don't turn into fine white powder sans beams without some mondo force.

Jon: You are wasting your

Jon:

You are wasting your life in that forum you linked. It's like talking to a brick wall.

As far a "unified message", how's this one:
Although I cannot accurately describe all of the events of 9/11/2001, I can say that the negligence, breach-of-protocol, misinformation, and witholding of information and evidence, combined with the lack of a proper investigation, is to a level that is criminal.

I know a few of us have some

I know a few of us have some doubts about some of the cell calls, especially on 93 and 77...am I missing something here? This guy says he was on the phone with his grandson as 175 hit the South Tower. Have we heard this before? Uh, this may kill some 9/11 Truth mojo.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_re_us/moussaoui_3;_ylt=AgQoyHv...

So how do we "call the

So how do we "call the question"?

It seems that there is a preponderance of unanswered questions and a preponderance of desire not to have anyone asking them. How do we move people and.or the media?

I was on my cell phone

I was on my cell phone yesterday taking a dump but I can't say that it had anything to do with 911.

Anonymous - The only way he

Anonymous - The only way he could have been talking to his grandson is from the airphones, not cell phones.

I am an Engineer and I use to hold a NABER licence. Trust me..... Cell phones will not work at that speed, due to handoff issues between the cell towers. They would be fighting each other for control of the signal and therefore would result in garbled communications. Also, depending on the height that this guy says he was talking to him could be an issue as well. After about 4,000 FT the signal is questionable as to whether it would be received. The plane acts like a faraday screen and limits the cell phone signal. I don't believe any statement that says they were talking to someone on a cell phone. If they are getting it confussed with a air phone, that's a different story.

Interesting... I have often

Interesting... I have often wondered why all of the evidence was destroyed at all of the major sites, since I thought that was a felony. From what I understood, they were never officiall declared a crime scene. Apparently, in a memo from the mayor's office 9/26/01:

"City: No more photographs of World Trade Center site "
http://www.boston.com/news/daily/26/photo_ban.htm

"No photographic equipment or video equipment may be brought into the area or used, except with the approval of the Police Commissioner," said a statement issued by the mayor's office on Tuesday.

The statement said that the ban was issued because the site is a crime scene and that cameras and video equipment could be seized. No one from the mayor's office was available early Wednesday to explain why the order wasn't issued earlier.

How interesting... which was it?

plus this was 2001, the age

plus this was 2001, the age of 1st generation dual-mode phones (analog/digital)

Does anyone have any insight

Does anyone have any insight into the psychology of talking to another person about 911?

I think this deserves it's own discussion since we can all learn from each other...

I've exposed many people to the MANY questions about the official story and the paradigm shift that many people go through makes it VERY difficult to believe anything I have to say....

For example:

Many people have a hard time accepting that our government could do something to hurt it's own people.

Others feel that there is NO WAY that the government (even a small group within) could pull this off without someone coming out with the truth.

Others believe that there just HAS to be someone in the alternative media who would have delved deeply into this story by now.

You can remind people of Pearl Harbor and the Northwoods Incident, the Manhattan Project and Stealth Fighter programs, and the fact that SOME media, including mainstream media has covered 911 truth.

Still it can be a tough sell.
I'd be very interested in hearing what others have to say...

solar_roller, i suggest you

solar_roller,

i suggest you check out the recent '9/11 myths' speech by Dr. Griffin.. each of those things you listed is a 'myth' surrounding 9/11, and he provides some insight into why people might believe those myths and why they are myth and not fact.

Hey everyone . . . Is this

Hey everyone . . .

Is this good and inspiring

or long-winded and so what boring?

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/04/now-is-time.html

Any feedback (positive or negative) greatly appreciated.

Please post comments

Please post comments http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/04/now-is-time.html

so I'll make sure to read 'em.

Thanks.

solar_roller - It's hard,

solar_roller - It's hard, but you just have to keep providing hard evidence to the people who doubt what you say.

I have a fellow employee who was hell bent about me being a conspiracy theorist. After about 6 months of providing information and facts, he has come around and finally admitted that he now believes that the government had a role in 9/11.

It's a hard hurdle, but it can happen.

information without evidence

information without evidence should only be presented on Fox news.

please include links!

My father thought I was

My father thought I was nuts. I said, "Dad, I'm going to send you the book, read at least one chapter . . "

He couldn't put it down. He's headed to Texas A&M Students for 911 Truth meeting in college station, TX this week.

Man, if the Aggies (great engineering school) find out about 911, they might just torch GW's library which I believe is on campus.

sorry - the book was "The

sorry - the book was "The New Pearl Harbor"

i think a boycott of

i think a boycott of american and united airlines is in order

do they care about paying customers

Take The $10,000

solar_roller, I passed along

solar_roller,
I passed along the Loose Change video website to several people and they were all convinced, as am I, that the government and media, indeed, all our institutions, have been lying to us about 911. This is one hell of a lot of strange stuff to happen in one day:

3 steel frame buildings collapse from fire, the only such collapses in history;

A plane goes straight into the Pentagon and makes a narrower hole than the width of the plane and there is virtually no plane wreckage outside the building;

A plane "liquefies" into the earth and makes a smaller hole than the plane. (Flt. 93);

The whole megilla goes on for over an hour and our multi, multi trillion dollar air defenses do nothing about it but watch;

Within minutes, the whole media is telling us its the handiwork of a guy in a cave in Afghanistan.

One thing about the

One thing about the "creepiness" of our government doing this: I felt that way at first but I now feel that its actually a comfort. I used to feel that if it really was foreign terrorists who pulled this off, then we had to be afraid constantly because the US is so wide open. I used to feel anxious for days in advance when I had to travel over a big bridge and I used to think about bombs planted in the restrooms at the mall. I thought about being on an airplane with my family and a terrorist taking one of us and slitting his/her throat in front of the others.

Now, I don't have those kinds of fears because

(a) There was no need to terrify those passengers on the plane in order to get control. Whatever story they were told for whatever odd things were happening, the passengers went along with it.

(b) There is no reason for the group that did these attacks to do any more. They got the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan that they wanted and the Congress and the media will probably go along with an attack on Iran.

"Pakistan Did Not Influence

According to them.

According to them.

Sign the

Can anyone find any mention

Can anyone find any mention of the February 28th non-secret meeting, according to Tasneem Aslam, that the Public Accounts Committee had?

"that the government and

"that the government and media, indeed, all our institutions, have been lying to us about 911"

Sounds like a lot of people are "in on it" don't you think? Aren't you surprised that not ONE person has spoken the "truth" who might be in the know?

In case anyone was curious,

In case anyone was curious, like I was, about the latest piece from deseret news about Professor Jones... I just had some correspondence with him.

My letter to Professor Jones...

Dear Professor Jones...

I read the latest piece in the deseret news, and I have one question... does thermite cause an "explosion" of sorts?

Thanks,

Jon Gold

His response...

Jon,

Thermite is a mixture of aluminum POWDER and iron oxide POWDER. The fineness of the powder determines whether or not the thermite is incendiary ("melting" through steel) or explosive -- the latter requiring ultra-fine aluminum powder, sometimes called nanoaluminum, and the thermite is then called "superthermite."

Thus, one can tailor thermite to cut more slowly, without causing explosions, or more quickly with explosions. The evidence is consistent with both types of thermite being used, although HMX or RDX could also have been used -- with a danger that the required taggants would be observed for HMX and RDX explosives.

Oh -- I should have pointed you to my paper where more detail is provided:

[url]http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html[/url]

Sincerely
Steven J

The Observer hitpiece is

The Observer hitpiece is disgusting. Idiotic blather.

To whoever asked: WTC no-plane theories are fringe. None of the most often cited people subscribe to them.

911myths.com is useful, but does not conclusively address most of the issues.

"mini nuke"

gahhhhh

"Rumsfeld admits MISSILE hit the Pentagon"

Maybe he wanted to deepen the tar pit for 9-11 researchers.

"Hani Hanjour [...] He wasn't very smart though because the nuclear plant on the river was a much better and easier to strike target."

Hanjour is alleged to have been the pilot of the plane that hit the Pentagon. Indian Point was not an easy target.

"plane alone could not have gone through 4 or 5 concrete reinforced walls without some kind of help"

Flight 77 had to penetrate only one masonry wall. (And possibly make the exit hole.) The light wells between the rings did not reach the lowest 2 floors.

"at least half of the hijackers are said to be alive"

More like 5 or 6, and that's disputed.

"jumbo jet"

No 747s were used during the attacks.

"A plane goes straight into the Pentagon and makes a narrower hole than the width of the plane"

Only slightly. The "16ft hole" is the biggest piece of d/misinfo in all of 9-11 research.

"One thing about the "creepiness" of our government doing this: I felt that way at first but I now feel that its actually a comfort."

WTF!!!! You're the first person I've ever heard say it's comforting to think that the leadership of the only superpower killed 3000 of their own people to advance their ideology!!

"I used to feel anxious for days in advance when I had to travel over a big bridge and I used to think about bombs planted in the restrooms at the mall."

It's extremely unlikely that you'll be killed by foreign terrorists, this would be the case even if the official story of 9-11 were true. People are bad at thinking sensibly about risk, see Bruce Schneier's 'Beyond Fear'.

"Sounds like a lot of people are "in on it" don't you think?"

Not in on the plot itself. The coverup the media is doing is out of habit of defending the Establishment, as well as the usual inhibitions against speculative theories.

"Sounds like a lot of people

"Sounds like a lot of people are "in on it" don't you think? Aren't you surprised that not ONE person has spoken the "truth" who might be in the know?"

That's an assumption on your part. Ever hear of Sibel Edmonds?

damn that was a long post

damn that was a long post

No way a Boeing 757/767

No way a Boeing 757/767 crashed into the pentagon

April 04, 2006 - 05:28 PM
The Pentagon Exit Hole
More 9/11 Demolition?
by Russell Pickering
http://rense.com/general70/hole.htm

April 04, 2006 - 05:27 PM
Pentagon Exit Hole Part II
Building Performance Report Deception?
by Russell Pickering
http://www.rense.com/general70/bhole.htm

peace,pw

I sent a letter to the

I sent a letter to the Gaurdian, heres what I said

"I just read this article and I feel like I'm going to throw up. Flight 93 was a well researched and fact based movie? Ok, so when you call your mom do you say your full name? Hey mom this is Mark Bingham, do you believe me mom? Mom its Mark Bingham do you believe me? Terrorists are hijacking my plane, this is Mark Bingham do you believe me mom? Thats how I talk to my mother(sarcasm). Oh wait, cell phones don't get service 6 miles in the air. That conviently destroys your credibility. But seeing as how you guys have done exhaustive research about 9/11 for the past month you most be able to explain to all of us why WTC Building 7 collapsed.

Unfortunately "the document as exhaustive and accountable as the 9/11 Commission report" doesn't even mention WTC 7. Interesting. No worries though. Apparently you guys are experts on 9/11 and can thoroughly explain to us how building 7 collapsed. This is Andy White Gaurdian, do you believe me? I want to know why WTC 7 collapsed, this is Andy White don't you believe me?"

I average about 3 - 4 people I tell the truth about 9/11 to a week. I really do believe that every single person I tell is important and if it takes a long time to get them to open their eyes its important.

In regards to the bribery

In regards to the bribery story...

All this is, to me, is a he said/she said. It's not like Government's have never lied before. We know Pakistan was involved. They're not denying that, just the allegation of bribery. Their involvement wasn't mentioned in the 9/11 Report, and now they have become this country's "best buddy" in the "War On Terror". Bribery certainly makes sense to me. I think it should be investigated.

Monday, Apr 10 Smith, on why

Monday, Apr 10
Smith, on why we believe Zionists are involved in 9-11

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Smith10Apr2006.mp3

Are Zionists the masterminds of the September 11 attack?

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html

November 7, 2006 is an

November 7, 2006 is an election.

Who's running for congress in your district?

Ask them questions...often...on tape...this is "their" soft spot.

Jon, what do you make of

Jon, what do you make of Steven Jones's reply to your letter?

It seems to me to be a little evasive - or just factually correct but non-commital on the subject of explosions.

Andrew

Terrence, you came up with

Terrence, you came up with the same argument last time (nobody peeped) and I answered you (plenty people peeped). I have had no reponse from you, so I suggest you reply to my answer first before starting the argument all over again.

As for 911myths, a good example of how biased the site is its the explanation of the 'magic passport' versus completely ignoring the missing black boxes. 911myths only touches a few of the issues, and -apart from debunking the more fantastic theories- does quite a bad job in 'explaining' them imho.

"Jon, what do you make of

"Jon, what do you make of Steven Jones's reply to your letter?

It seems to me to be a little evasive - or just factually correct but non-commital on the subject of explosions.

Andrew"

He answered my question, and I think it was nice of him to do so...

The person calling

The person calling her/himself AmandaReconwith seems to be a gov't disinfo agent. He/she continually posts "no planes at the WTC" junk and, "there was no such person as Mark Bingham, no death records, no Soc Sec #" etc. His/her junk posts are all over the web.
Anonymous | 04.10.06 - 12:15 pm |

Goes by the name "sunshine" on another forum.Claims to have previously worked in Missle repair in the USAF.
"Missile Repair"???? WTF?
How do you repair a missile?

An important point about Dr.

An important point about Dr. Jones is that he is a well-grounded and well-respected physicist. He is not going to say anything he cannot back-up with scientifically peer reviewed calculations and experiments. Those calculations and experiments are underway. But when you hear him occasionally veer into constitutional matters you know his heart is totally engaged in 911 truth.

hey jon, i jumped in on your

hey jon, i jumped in on your thread at globalaffairs.org. I hope we can at least get them looking at it with a slightly more open mind than they started with.

Before I turn in, has anyone

Before I turn in, has anyone heard any news of the film 'Improbable Collapse' that premiered last night in NYC? A fortnight ago I was asked for permission to use some music of mine, which I gladly gave...
I would be interested to hear of any feedback as I have not seen any clips yet.

Cool. They weren't reading

Cool. They weren't reading the posts anyway... just saying "NO" without an open mind.

Haven't heard anything ALW.

Haven't heard anything ALW.

I've visited

I've visited iamthewitness.com only once and seem to recall that it was retarded. Is this accurate?

"911myths only touches a few of the issues"

Yeah that's what I meant

About Doctor Jones: his second best asset is that he looks like a Republican :)

Thanks Jon.

Thanks Jon.

I just found this, haven't

I just found this, haven't watched it yet, maybe old stuff;

VIDEO: Engineering Disasters: World Trade Center Building 7
http://indybay.org/news/2006/04/1814156.php

Terrence, Do you think the

Terrence,
Do you think the Moussaoui prosecutors believe that Moussaoui and Richard Reid were going to hijack a plane?

I followed the way we got lied into the Iraq war. There was PLENTY of information out that made Bush's and Powell's and Cheney's claims look phony and dishonest but I saw our media and our Congress go along with it. How much SCREAMING was there about the extreme likelihood that invading Iraq would turn into the disaster it has? The Iraq war is arguably a worse thing for our nation than 9/11. (Actually, maybe not arguably, maybe definitely. By now, more American citizens have died than died in 9/11 and the number of Iraqis and others dead outnumbers the number of non-US citizens by a multiple.)

People rationalize. How the hell does Colin Powell look himself in the mirror? But he does and he makes speeches and is treated like a great man.

Able said: About Doctor

Able said:

About Doctor Jones: his second best asset is that he looks like a Republican

Steven E. Jones is a Republican. He voted for Bush in 2000. BYU is a highly conservative mormon school isn't it?

Does anyone know if Improbably Collapse will be free to view on google video? I've been anticipating this one. Good work as always Jon.

Able, Yeah, actually, I do

Able,
Yeah, actually, I do feel its a comfort that the government did it and not amazingly ingenius Arab terrorists, people who should have stuck out like sore thumbs but were able to figure out how to get around everything that is supposed to be in place to stop terrorsts from hijacking 4 passenger jets within an hour and smashing them into buildings.

Oh, and I will look for

Oh, and I will look for Beyond Fear. (I guess its a movie?) Thanks.

That's a much better

That's a much better explanation Hi, but it only deals with the attacks themselves: the present situation is damn scary, with the neocons still in power.

Beyond Fear is book that's often recommended as a layman's guide to security issues:

http://schneier.com/book-beyondfear.html

Able: "Rumsfeld admits

Able:
"Rumsfeld admits MISSILE hit the Pentagon"
Maybe he wanted to deepen the tar pit for 9-11 researchers.
Or maybe numerous good people were trying to get word to Rummy or others-in-charge that a missile/drone hit the Pentagon and not AA77. By using the word "missile" himself, Rummy would in effect short-circuit the need for these people to try to inform him something other than AA77 hit the Pentagon.

"jumbo jet"
No 747s were used during the attacks.
757/767 are jumbo enough for me.

"mini nuke"
gahhhhh
Ok, a big bomb on board then. Point was that Cheney didn't know what was on board AA77 as it approached the Pentagon. It definitely should have been shot down.

"plane alone could not have gone through 4 or 5 concrete reinforced walls without some kind of help"
Would the plane have to go through 4 or five walls of the nuclear reactor. How about a small crack?

Thanks, Able.

Thanks, Able.

Terrence: 9-11: Confirmed -

Terrence:

9-11: Confirmed - WTC steel beams whistleblower fired.

SOUTH BEND -- The laboratory director from a South Bend firm has been fired for attempting to cast doubt on the federal investigation into what caused the World Trade Center's twin towers to collapse on Sept. 11, 2001.
Kevin R. Ryan was terminated Tuesday from his job at Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Underwriters Laboratories Inc., the consumer-product safety testing giant.
On Nov. 11, Ryan wrote a letter to the National Institute of Standards and Technology -- the agency probing the collapse -- challenging the common theory that burning jet fuel weakened the steel supports holding up the 110-story skyscrapers.
Underwriters Laboratories Inc., according to Ryan, "was the company that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings."...
http://www.david-sadler.org/archiveFP/FP200411.htm

Interesting article from

Interesting article from Argentina indymedia site re: Moussaoui made to wear a "stun-belt."

"Moussaoui's 'testimony' is fabricated evidence of his supposed 'guilt' - based on the fear of extremely painful fifty-thousand Volt shocks from the 'stun belt he was forced to wear. In the PNAC's inferno 'justice' means: 'just us'."....
http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/393138.php

Good blog here showing the

Good blog here showing the basic arguments that non-believers continue to make:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/28475#comment

Link from a non-believer on above blog to PBS/NOVA junk sciece site purporting to show why the WTC fell:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

"Terrence, you came up with

"Terrence, you came up with the same argument last time (nobody peeped) and I answered you (plenty people peeped)."

Please provide me with the name of ONE person who was involved with this grand conspiracy of yours, who has spoken about it. One....

"that the government and

"that the government and media, indeed, all our institutions, have been lying to us about 911"

Sounds like a lot of people are "in on it" don't you think? Aren't you surprised that not ONE person has spoken the "truth" who might be in the know?

Yes, Jon, Sibel spoke up, and so did a lot of other "whistle-blowers"... and then there is the process of compartmentalization...

It's all very "spoooky"...

Oh that's rich, Terrence.

Oh that's rich, Terrence. One person, who was in on it all, and spoke out. Is this the only thing you got left? Is this the only thing that will make you think twice?

As some have already pointed out, you are wrong assuming that the conspiracy had to involve thousand or more people. Sure, you don't have to believe GeorgeWashington, or draw comparisons with historical cover-ups.

And I guess because it's you, Terrence, you also don't need to comment on all the people who have spoken out, because they weren't actually planning the whole damn thing. So you can happily forget about the firemen who witnessed demolition-like explosions, about FBI personnel who were told to abandon their investigation,

(continues...)

(continued...) about

(continued...)

about journalists and writers who said something fishy was going on, about rescue workers that claimed to have found black boxes that officially have never been found, about scores of other people who have spoken out on scores of subjects like explosions in the basement of the WTC, peaking put options, unrecognizable aircraft, obstruction and manipulation of evidence and witnesses by the US government, and so on. Forget about Sibel Edmonds, forget about William Rodriguez, forget about Kevin Ryan, forget about Steven Jones, because hey - they didn't plan the attacks, so why bother.

So about that one guy who was involved in planning it, and who has spoken about it. I can remember this one guy, he was in some classroom down south, and said he'd seen the first plane hit the WTC on TV before the second plane hit, when footage of it did not come out until after the second plane hit. Now if I can only remember his name...