Weekend Grab Bag

Hi all, better versions of the Charlie Sheen interview on Jimmy Kimmel have been uploaded to www.911podcasts.com. Thanks to Neil at stoplying.ca for that.

While we're thanking people, send Jimmy Kimmel and ABC a message here:
http://abc.go.com/site/contactus.html

And thank Charlie here:
http://www.bravocharlie911.com/

And why not drop a line to Oprah, and ask her if she wants to break this story wide open, or would she rather have Ellen do it:
http://www.oprah911.com/

Let her know, someone WILL tackle this topic, and it might as well be her. Mention the ratings Showbiz Tonight enjoyed.

Alex Jones weighs in here:
A Defiant Sheen Challenges Official 9/11 Fable on National TV
http://infowars.com/

"In my 12 years of broadcast, I have broken hundreds of stories that have gained national attention, but none have captured the imagination of the people like Charlie Sheen's statements on 9/11. Universally people recognize that his courageous stand has smashed the floodgates and the tide has now turned. The 9/11 Truth Movement saw its birth over four and a half years ago and it witnessed an unprecedented infusion when Charlie Sheen spoke out. "

Now, for some other topics:

Jack Beacon And Chip Berlet Debate 9/11
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9569

Jack Beacon is from Colorado Visibility 9-11 and Chip Berlet is the "foremost expert" when it comes to debunking "Conspiracy Theories".

Did Building 7 Commit Suicide?
http://www.betterbadnews.com/58

Sudden Building Collapse Syndrome (SBCS) is not well understood. Perhaps that is why the 9/11 Commission Report made no mention of the sudden collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 late in the day on September 11, 2001.

Do Justice
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/04/do-justice.html

85% of the American population identifies itself as Christian, and millions more identify themselves as Jewish. Therefore, if you are trying to reach Americans with 9/11 truth, it might help to know a little about the Bible.

Nine Eleven: A Response to Doubting Doug
http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=334

I find it remarkably strange that Thompson believes his government is capable of setting up a police state, while on the other is unable to grasp the idea that very same government would kill its own citizens, as it has slaughtered thousands and thousands of Iraqis

In regards to Doogie... He

In regards to Doogie... He removed the anti-9/11 truth articles from his site.

"Article removed from our database

By DOUG THOMPSON
Apr 14, 2006, 07:01

A note to our readers: Several columns I have written in recent days were penned while my wife and I were dealing with the declining health and evetual death of a beloved pet and I was writing from anger that had nothing to do with the subject.

Because of that, I have removed this column and others from the database and offer my apology to our readers for writing while my mind was preoccupied.

More information can be found here."

Ask New York Governor Pataki

Ask New York Governor Pataki questions as he runs for President:
New York Governor George Pataki will be visiting New Hampshire on April 27th-28th. If you would like to help welcome Gov. Pataki back to the Granite State, please review the details of his trip to attend the event closest to you.

Thursday, April 27th

Issues & Answers Series

Time: 6:00pm ~ private reception ~ $15 per person

6:30pm ~ general reception ~ free! (attendees must RSVP)

Loc: At the home of Wendy Stanley Jones

2 Strout Lane

Durham, NH

Contact: Matt Mayberry at 516-0130

Friday, April 28th

Manchester Republican Committee Luncheon

Time: 12:00pm ~ $25 per person

Loc: The Yard Restaurant

1211 South Mammoth Road

Manchester, NH

Contact: Jerry Thibodeau at jerry@thibco.com

Nashua Republican City Committee Reception

Time: 7:00pm

Loc: At the Home of Representative Bea Francoeur
Nashua, NH

Contact: Sandra Ziehm at sandra@harmony-re.com

Anyone have a list of

Anyone have a list of veterans that spoke up regarding 9/11?

I just noticed that all WTC

I just noticed that all WTC 7 collapse links at

http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html

are broken. Clicking them bring up a site that is for sale. This is bad news at a time when Sheen asks people to look into WTC 7 for themselves. I sent the postmaster an email about this.

Glad to see Thompson come to

Glad to see Thompson come to his senses :)

Since most issues are on-topic in these grab bags, there's a point I'd like to raise.

You really want to read is this page, if you haven't already, it's been updated:
http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html
http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/damage_comp.jpg

(There is only one Pentagon-focused researcher I have any respect for, and that's Russell Pickering of http://www.pentagonresearch.com/ -- I recommend that site for everyone interested in the Pentagon strike even though it's largely conjecture. You'll note that none of the material there conclusively refutes a 757 impact.)

If you continue to believe in the "18 foot entry hole" or "most witnesses saw a small plane" or "no 757 debris" you are a dupe of the first order. If you SPREAD your beliefs you are hurting the quest for truth.

Most likely the only reason the security camera footage still hasn't been released is that the conspirators enjoy watching truthers being fooled by disinfo. This is probably also the reason why Rumsfeld made the 'missile' comment.

Minor oddities about the Fligh77 impact have no significance in the face of the overwhelming amount of eyewitnesses who not only failed to report a missile/jetfighter/whatever but actually reported seeing a large jetliner. Even more importantly, the conspirators WOULD NOT HAVE RISKED someone, just one person with a camera, taking a good photo of anything other than a 757 in AA colors.

When some media entity wants to do an all-out hitpiece on 9/11 truth they point to no-plane theories. Every time they want to be SUBTLE about it, they focus on... no-757-at-the-Pentagon. Ain't that curious? Washington Post reviews Griffin's New Pearl Harbor. The focus? Pentagon. Chip Berlet does a pseudo-scholarly assessment of Griffin's book. The focus? Pentagon. Think about this.

Convince yourself of this:

On September 11 2001 at around 09:38 the Pentagon was hit by American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757-233 with the tail number N644AA.

The "757 in AA colors" part is a known fact. The "civilian 233" part is all but certain. The "Flight 77" and "N644AA" parts are extremely likely.

Do you want there to be a Truth Movement or an Oh I Guess Anything Could Have Happened Movement? Get with the program, and stop being disinfo victims.

Able: I feel the same way

Able:

I feel the same way about All the planes, and all the buildings. None of them are my major focus during 911 conversation.

Doug Thompson is full of

Doug Thompson is full of shit. He blames his complete lack of journalistic integrity on a cat?

Good thing he's not a doctor, or a police officer, or the president, with his finger on the nuclear trigger.

He's just admitting that he shouldn't be in such a position of influence. He's Unqualified for the position.

Good thing he took his naive vomit off the site though, I guess.

Chip Berlet is actually one

Chip Berlet is actually one of the more persuasive "anti-conspiracy theorists" out there. I don't think it's possible to be all that convincing when you're arguing against such an obvious conspiracy, but he presents himself well.

It's much easier to like a guy that says "I don't agree that it was an inside job but I do agree that the government was criminally negligent" than it is to like a guy that says "Bush is the best president ever and there is a good reason for everything that happened that day."

I live 15 minutes away from where this meeting took place so I'll see if I can get in on the next one.

another response to

another response to Thompsons madness here:

http://jultra.blogspot.com/

The Al Qaeda

(Rather quiet thread... of

(Rather quiet thread... of course it is the easter holidays)

Sure, Doug probably made up an excuse or exaggerated its effect, but that's better than continuing to defend his mendacious hitpieces. I won't trust him again, though.

Berlet definitely isn't a raving moron, and I suppose he serves a necessary role. Besides, looking at how he argues his case is informative: in this case, it reveals the harm that no-757-at-the-Pentagon theories are causing.

btw, http://www.cooperativeresearch.org needs donations

RE: Chip Berlet clip He says

RE: Chip Berlet clip

He says 70 researchers and scientists worked on the PM article.

Anyone who wishes to debunk the article should point out that the article itself states that they used "9 researchers and editors." I would assume that means they used their own reporters and editors, one of whom, btw, was Michael Chertoff's cousin.

People should not be able to make ridiculous claims like "70 researchers and scientists" when referring to that article.

Aaron Russo interview Great

Aaron Russo interview

Great expose of the federal reserve and irs scam! Peep it 'fo sho!

Unless Doug Thompson follows

Unless Doug Thompson follows through and RETRACTS his claims, he is following the Government Shill Handbook to the letter - print the destructive bullshit so everyone can reference it, then just remove the text as if you didn't mean it. Meanwhile, every other shill on the planet can still repeat what you originally said.

Until he does that, he's an official whore.

The Russo "From Freedom to Fascism" movie should be great.

Trailer for "From Freedon to

Trailer for "From Freedon to Fascism":

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/f_high.html

There are good reasons to be

There are good reasons to be concerned about the Federal Reserve, but some of those cited in the trailer are not among them.

WeÂ’re on a mission to

WeÂ’re on a mission to never forget
Three thousand people, that IÂ’ve never met
We want some answers, and all that we getÂ…
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies

WeÂ’re on a mission to dig up the truth
[?] and thereÂ’s no proof
But let me tell you that the time has come
To pull the trigger on the smoking gun

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies Lies Lies

DonÂ’t listen to it, listen to your pain
DonÂ’t listen to anything they say
DonÂ’t listen

Lies Lies Lies Lies

“America has been hijacked, not by Al Qaeda, not by Bin Laden, but by a group of tyrants…that should be of great concern to all Americans.”
(Sample of Dylan Avery, Â…)

WeÂ’re on a mission to bring out the facts
You got your stories but they all have cracks
This information lies in deceit
What made you think we were all asleep?

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies
Surprise surprise!

Lies Lies Lies Lies

DonÂ’t listen to it, listen to your pain
DonÂ’t listen to anything they say
DonÂ’t listen

Lies Lies Lies Lies
http://culhavoc.blogsome.com/go.php?http://we-dont.gotdns.org/~culhavoc/...

"LiesLiesLies"
by very well known industrial metal band Ministry

Don't quit your day job....

Don't quit your day job....

pockybot, dylan is actually

pockybot,

dylan is actually supposed to direct a music video for that lies lies lies song by ministry.. no details yet, but i did confirm it with him..

just watched the

just watched the Horowitz-Churchill debate on C-SPAN.

Horowitz is to Churchill what Soliari is to Mozart.

Al Queda is the bad santa claus and Zarquawi is the evil elfton chief.

Great interview with Aaron

Great interview with Aaron Russo.
Very compelling. Can't wait to see his film.

Able, I don't buy your

Able, I don't buy your argument for accepting as definite that AA77 hit the Pentagon. Those Arab flunkies had to fly from southern Ohio all the way to the Pentagon, and then do some acrobatics, and they hit the newly-renovated, under-occupied section???

Moreover, you stated:

"Minor oddities about the Fligh77 impact have no significance in the face of the overwhelming amount of eyewitnesses who not only failed to report a missile/jetfighter/whatever but actually reported seeing a large jetliner. Even more importantly, the conspirators WOULD NOT HAVE RISKED someone, just one person with a camera, taking a good photo of anything other than a 757 in AA color"

1. Many eyewitnesses said they saw something other than an airliner.
2. Can we really rely on eyewitness accounts of something going 500+ mph, so low to the ground, anyway???
3. In the most unlikely event that someone had a camera, why wouldn't that camera/media just get confiscated as soon as the person brought it to anyone's attention???

In other words, I think it's good to keep asking questions about AA77! It's not "case closed" by any means.

Terrance: Seriously, what do

Terrance: Seriously, what do you do for a living???

Able: I just skimmed that

Able: I just skimmed that Russell Pickering site you linked above, and it seems to indicate that AA77 did NOT hit the Pentagon. What are you talking about???

From the Pickering site: "I

From the Pickering site:

"I believe the volume of eyewitness reports indicates that an aircraft was seen heading toward the Pentagon even though they disagreed widely on what they saw.

The front of the Pentagon was obviously effected by some significant force.

I believe the "exit hole" was caused by secondary explosives.

If an aircraft hit the Pentagon, I don't believe it was piloted by Hani Hanjour. All industry professionals clearly stated his piloting skills and English were so poor they believed he shouldn't be licensed."

If we buy LIHOP we have to assume a very unlikely scenario: that the Pentagon brass would trust hapless Hanjour to hit the renovation wing and not some other locale, for interest the east wing, where Rumsfeld was busy having his morning coffee and quipping "this ain't over yet".

the strike had to be extremely methodical; the only safe bet would have been remote control. The plane may may or may not have been an "exact duplicate" (as the northwoods authors proposed) of flight 77 and may or may not have fired a missile before impact.

I don't usually participate

I don't usually participate in name calling but I believe Terrance has a PHD in Asshattery. :oD

alright, so there is a

alright, so there is a missle attached to flight 77. Jezz can people drop this pod bullshit already. Its been debuked again and again.

I've come to the key

I've come to the key realization that yes, some of the theories propigated
by the 9/11 Truth movement are taken out of context and or are blatantly false.

I now believe with pretty much 100% certainty Silverstein was referring to getting the firefighters not from out of the building, but from the surround areas with his pull it comment. Trust me, if he was in on some conspiracy, and hey maybe he was, he wouldnt go on tv and say 'oh, we demolished it'...even for safety purposes. We may never know how structurally damaged WTC7 was or was not. Ive seen photos of massive desvestation to one side, and others with massive billowing smoke. The kind of pix truthers dont liek to show, but were about uncovering the full truth...not a modified version right?

Now I actually agree with some of Chip Berlet's assertions, as well as some of whats on 911myth...but both these individuals fail to address the provable total foreknowlege and many, many things that are unrefutable.
Were talking Pakistan involvement, FBI agents told to not investigate, etc.

Extremly poor english to

Extremly poor english to refer to a person or a group of persons to "it".

I notice some posts around

I notice some posts around here telling others who to respect, and what to think, and what site to go to to be told what to think. (oilempire has, for years, told the world that 911blimp.net is untrustworthy. Since I know that 911blimp is completely trustworthy, that tells me that oilempire is untrustworthy. It just so happens that oilempire deems itself worthy of telling others which sites to distrust. It maintains a long list of such sites. Did I mention that I don't trust oilempire?)

911blimp.net asks questions. Questions the gang of leading loudmouths of the 911 truth movement ignore and/or suppress.

1. The 9-11 Commission Report referred repeatedly to the Naudet video, with contains the only known video of the 1st WTC impact, yet the 9-11 Commission Report fails to refer to the plane-lie-breaking visual evidence of a single-frame (maybe 10 milliseconds long) brief brilliant burst of light upon impact. The same is true of 911truth.org. 911citizenswatch.org, a huge web site, doesn't mention the Naudet video at all. Jim Hoffman's web site shows it on one of its pages, yet leaves it off of another. I think we all know why the 9-11 Commission omitted the lie-breaking evidence. But why do so many of the leading 911 people and web sites do the same thing? (...good thing I recorded it as I watched it air for the 1st time on Univision at ~ 10:41 pm MDT on 9/11, or no one would believe me when I told them that what I saw revealed to me that night that it was not Flight AA11 which struck the 1st tower! ...good thing that the same flash appears in other videos, including the official DVD release of that scene, so people couldn't simply find the video flash ignorable.)

2. The Pentagon Video Frames were released by the government (they are from a Pentagon parking lot security camera...) on March 7, 2002. Given that we are supposed to believe that the incoming attacking aircraft clipped some lamp poles on its approach, we can combine that evidence with a single camera image from the side to locate the aircraft precisely (IOW, to know exactly where it was along a line from the impact hole to the lamp poles). When we do that, and perform a little geometry on a map of the Penatgon grounds, we discover that the image in the 1st video frame reveals that the aircraft was too small to have been a 757. I think we all know why the 9-11 Commission therefore failed to mention the government's own evidence, the only video/visual we've ever seen of the Pentagon aircraft/impact. Like the Naudet video, the only known view blows the covernment's "Plane Theory" right out of the sky. Whether the Pentagon video frames are real or not, they totally destroy the lying government's credibility about what hit the Pentagon on 9/11. So how come so many "leading" 911 'truth' people and web sites either ignore them (same as the 9-11 Commission) or else try to get people to not place much importance on these frames, as if to do so would weaken our theory? (BTW, that use of "our theory" is disinfo; we don't need any theories of our own in order to observe that the government's "plane theory" is false.) And why would those suspicious 911 truthers derisively and divisively label 911 truthers who've noticed that the government's "plane theory" is fiction as "no-planers", and put up a web site to denounce them as "disinfo"? And how can we know that people who support this critical aspect of the government's big lie of 9/11, and oppose 911 truthers who don't accept that aspect of the government's big lie of 9/11, are not really working on behalf of the government even as they claim to be opposing it?

3. Same basic question(s) regarding Bush's incriminating 9/11 witness statements http://911blimp.net/aud_BushImplicatesBush.shtml : ignored by the 9-11 Commission, and by many 'leading' 911 'truth' people and web sites, while some others (eg; Barrie Zwicker, wrh.com) tell lies and create confusion about them. Why would so many 911 truthers either behave like the 9-11 Commission (and Congress) or otherwise behave contrary to the worthy, desirable goal of full disclosure about 9/11? (911blimp.net points out how Bush's incriminating statements could be true. No wonder the many 911-truth-smotherers don't like 911blimp.net and can't link to it and never could!) When self-proclaimed 911 truthers don't press for the questioning of Bush's self-implicating statements, how can we be sure that they are not secretly trying to protect Bush?

In addition to asking questions, 911blimp.net also presents evidence, including video evidence which no other 911 truther had otherwise captured; most of it came from our own original 9/11 off-the-air VHS recording: http://www.archive.org/details/9-11_video_off_air_VHStoDivXviaConvertX http://911blimp.net/vid_FDNYman.shtml http://911blimp.net/vid_WTC1explosions.shtml So, naturally, you'd expect other 911 'truth' sites to welcome, or at least tolerate, the efforts of 911blimp.net, right? Except they never have...

Remember, 9/11 changed history under false pretenses. The stakes are high. If 911 'truth' 'leaders' are not leading effectively, and we follow them, or even tolerate their 'suspicious shenanigans' and illogical irrational unjustifiable behaviors, then we've blown it. And in that sense, as long as we turn a blind eye to such behaviors, then we're not much better than those sheeple who still don't have a clue that 9/11 was an unimaginably huge horrible lie.
______________________________________

While it is important to

While it is important to continue spreading information on the "grassroots level", what about selecting, say, 25 highly prominent and respected individuals (*and* known for relative open-mindedness) and educating them about 9/11?

Even if just one of them comes out in public addressing the 9/11 issue, it would have been worth the effort. Think if Jimmy Carter said the official explanation is bogus...

I may be mistaken, but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated campaign of this sort going on.

This would entail deciding on the individuals on whom to focus, finding ways to contact them, etc.

That makes sense to me.

That makes sense to me. Working solo, playing Bush's incriminating witness statements over the phone to staffers at every Congressional office, sure hasn't broken the ice. (It still amazes me that not a single Congresscritter has ever questioned Bush's revealing, well-documented statements. In that regard, there's zero difference between Cynthia McKinney and Tom DeLay, or between Bill Clinton and George Herbert Walker Bush...)

Also, Vesa, thanks for pointing out that "most reliable 9/11 researcher" (yeah, right...) Jim Hoffman's site's WTC7 video links are broken. (This is not the first time that that's happened, BTW.) I've changed 911blimp.net's links to go to http://web.archive.org/web/20050303001407/http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html instead.
______________________________________

While apparently

While apparently incriminating, isn't it possible that the president's statements referring to the North Tower plane crash -- "I saw an airplane hit the tower" and "I had seen this-s uh plane fly into the first building" -- can always be explained by saying that he just meant he had seen the tower on fire on TV after the plane had crashed, ie that he used an inaccurate expression?

I'm absolutely not saying this should not be investigated, but that it may be difficult to use those statements as a proof that he really saw something that had not been shown on TV.

Anonymous | 04.16.06 - 12:58

Anonymous | 04.16.06 - 12:58 am

He's a salesperson for a corporation that sells aluminum foil.

Richard Ben-Veniste Says You

Richard Ben-Veniste Says You Can't Trust Bush - Video Inside

I thought this was funny, considering who he is.

C'mon... you guys know who

C'mon... you guys know who Richard Ben-Veniste is right?

"Even if just one of them

"Even if just one of them comes out in public addressing the 9/11 issue, it would have been worth the effort. Think if Jimmy Carter said the official explanation is bogus..."

I think Jimmy Carter is too smart to believe in holographic planes hitting the WTC or missiles being fired at the Pentagon.

What you DO need to do tho is to indoctrinate more folks with room temp. IQs to believing your fantasies. Folks like Charlie Sheen...

Terrence, you are a traitor

Terrence, you are a traitor to your country. If the United States is in fact where you live.

"Terrence, you are a traitor

"Terrence, you are a traitor to your country."

Why because I believe differently than you? I don't consider you a traitor, despite your fantasy beliefs. Seems like you think the only real Americans are folks who think like you.

No wonder you live on the fringes...

"Terrence, you are a traitor

"Terrence, you are a traitor to your country."

Why because I believe differently than you? I don't consider you a traitor, despite your fantasy beliefs. Seems like you think the only real Americans are folks who think like you.

No wonder you live on the fringes..."

No, because you consciously, and purposefully insult the efforts of those who are truely patriotic.

"A True Patriot Loves Their Country All Of The Time, And Their Government When It Deserves It"

Mark Twain said that Terrence. Mark Twain wrote what we call, "Books". You may have seen them before. Rectangular, a lot of piece of paper inside, things called words.

Maybe you should pick one up sometime.

trai·tor P

trai·tor
P Pronunciation Key (trtr) n.
One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

Tell me Terrence... the

Tell me Terrence... the White House specifically made the EPA tell everyone at Ground Zero that the air was safe to breathe. Just so you know, that air wasn't safe to breathe. Not by a longshot. Now, 15000 people are affected by their exposure to that air, and are dying from it.

Tell me why Bush shouldn't be held accountable for that.

Tell me why, Terrence, the

Tell me why, Terrence, the Bush Administration shouldn't be investigated for the crimes of 9/11. They are the ones filled with people who influence decision making that have partaken in a multitude of crimes in the past. They are the ones responsible for the National Security of the United States. They have been the ones to benefit from it most.

Tell me why they shouldn't be investigated for 9/11.

Tell me why, Terrence, this

Tell me why, Terrence, this person is a crazy fruitcake.

Terrence, you are TOO easy.

Terrence, you are TOO easy.

I mean geez... I've gone up

I mean geez... I've gone up against some pretty tough trolls in my day who actually had brains. You are a sorry excuse for a troll.

Anybody ever see that

Anybody ever see that episode of the Simpsons where Homer was trying to train Santa's Little Helper, and Homer would say, "Sit Santa's Little Helper, Fetch the stick Santa's Little Helper, etc..." and then they played back the dog's interpretation of what Homer was saying, and it was "Blah Santa's Little Helper, blah blah blah Santa's Little Helper, etc..."

That's how Terrence reads this site. "Blah blah blah Controlled Demolition." "Blah blah blah Missile hit the Pentagon"...

"White House specifically

"White House specifically made the EPA tell everyone at Ground Zero that the air was safe to breathe. Just so you know, that air wasn't safe to breathe. Not by a longshot. Now, 15000 people are affected by their exposure to that air, and are dying from it.

Tell me why Bush shouldn't be held accountable for that."

If it's true, then maybe he should be - although what that has to do with your conspiracy theories about 9/11 elude me.

p.s. It's generally agreed that numerous posts in a row by the same person makes that person look....pathetic....

"If it's true, then maybe he

"If it's true, then maybe he should be - although what that has to do with your conspiracy theories about 9/11 elude me.

p.s. It's generally agreed that numerous posts in a row by the same person makes that person look....pathetic...."

It is true Terrence, and there's no maybe about it. He should be investigated.

"Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink." - Christie Todd Whitman

She said that because, "White House officials pressured the agency to prematurely assure the public that the air was safe to breathe a week after the World Trade Center collapse".

And now Terrence, "The number of people with medical problems linked to the 9/11 attacks on New York has risen to at least 15,000."

In regards to "what that has to do with your conspiracy theories about 9/11 elude me.", 9/11 Truth entails a lot more than your feeble brain can comprehend.

Jon, I wonder if you have

Jon,

I wonder if you have ever bothered to research what happened on 911. Why don't you present some evidence for Terrence?

"Jon, I wonder if you have

"Jon,

I wonder if you have ever bothered to research what happened on 911. Why don't you present some evidence for Terrence?"

Nope, never.

Terrence needs to his own

Terrence needs to his own research. And so does everybody else. I've done the research. A lot of other people have done the research. We're already convinced, and are working to get the truth out.

Always a pleasure watching

Always a pleasure watching you work Mr Gold.

"Always a pleasure watching

"Always a pleasure watching you work Mr Gold."

You can do it RC. So can everybody else. Just spend some time reading. We're not smarter than those who believe the official story. We've just read a lot more.

There is a reason why

There is a reason why schools teach people to read.

pockybot--"I now believe

pockybot--"I now believe with pretty much 100% certainty Silverstein was referring to getting the firefighters not from out of the building, but from the surround areas with his pull it comment. Trust me, if he was in on some conspiracy, and hey maybe he was, he wouldnt go on tv and say 'oh, we demolished it'...even for safety purposes. We may never know how structurally damaged WTC7 was or was not. Ive seen photos of massive desvestation to one side, and others with massive billowing smoke. The kind of pix truthers dont liek to show, but were about uncovering the full truth...not a modified version right?"

I detect much subtle disinfo in your above post. I noticed you posted similar bullshit in the past.
___________________________________-
Silverstein was on a PBS documentary when he stated his "pull-it" scenario. He probably felt pressured to come up with some explanation as to why WTC-7 imploded, and he put his foot in his mouth. (Also, Silverstein need not be the mastermind in demolishing WTC-7; who knows what kind of b.s. he may have been fed too.) Nevertheless, his comments are very incriminating!

If Silverstein meant the fire fighters should leave the building or leave the area around the building, he would have said pull-out or pull-back, not “pull-it.”

Re: the photos you’ve seen with “massive devastation to one side” and others with “massive billowing smoke”
1. Which side of WTC-7 had the massive devastation? I've never seen any such photos. Was it the side facing the towers, at least?
2. Were the photos with massive billowing smoke taken just as the controlled demolition began? Those are the only ones IÂ’ve seen with much smoke.

"We're not smarter than

"We're not smarter than those who believe the official story. We've just read a lot more."

Sadly, you're not reading what actual experts are saying - you read what felow coniracy theorists say.

Back to my question about structural engineers (actual experts)

Don't you find it odd that you folks can't name one who agrees with you?

Judy Wood? A Mechanical Engineer who studies teeth. BTW, she is *not* a Civil Engineer
http://www.ces.clemson.edu/me/mefaculty/pdfs/Wood1.pdf

Jerry Russell is might coy about what his MS in Engineering is. Given his work place (http://www.egi.com/) it is not likely to be a relevant field.

Frank Demartini's comments are based on an old, slower, less fuel laden plane. His comments are essentially correct, but he did not anticipate the fuel burn and resulting inferno.

Kevin Ryan tested water. He was canned for misrepresenting himself as part of the Underwriter Labs. He is not relevant.

Jon, this Terrence jerk must

Jon, this Terrence jerk must be a disinfo agent in training or something. He sucks, but he just keeps coming back for more & more.

And RC... people can say

And RC... people can say 2+2=5 as many times as they want. Eventually though, the truth of 2+2 equaling 4 will always come out.

"We're not smarter than

"We're not smarter than those who believe the official story. We've just read a lot more."

Sadly, you're not reading what actual experts are saying - you read what felow coniracy theorists say."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Didn't you just say if my accusation was true, "then maybe he should be" investigated?

I proved to you it was true, and you label me a "Conspiracy Theorist".

See Terrence, when something is proved to be true, it's no longer a "theory", it becomes fact.

Shouldn't you be busy trying to convince people to investigate Bush?

Jon, I've done a ton a

Jon,

I've done a ton a research also and it mostly contradicts yours and supports Terrence's statements.

Tell us just what source convince you that you have the 'truth' and why you think your research is correct.

Terrence, common sense

Terrence, common sense dictates that immense steel buildings do not implode without deliberate demolition. That schmuck Silverstein even admitted as much when he said, “pull-it” out of the side of his mouth (much like Cheney talks out of the side of his mouth too).

"Jon, I've done a ton a

"Jon,

I've done a ton a research also and it mostly contradicts yours and supports Terrence's statements."

Ok, tell me where it's written that the White House didn't pressure the EPA to tell everyone the air was safe to breathe.

I can show you where

I can show you where Christie Todd Whitman denied misleading the public, and I can show you where a Federal Judge "blasted" her for it.

Where is it written that the White House didn't pressure the EPA?

Pocky... The shed on the

Pocky...

The shed on the roof of WTC7 collapses BEFORE the roof does. This couldn't have been caused by fires or damage at the base of the building.

Please stop focusing on the irrelevant info about damage at the base of the building.

Blue-blood bullshit artists

Blue-blood bullshit artists like Whitman & Thomas Kean make me sick!

What does 911myths.com have

What does 911myths.com have to say about that?

"Blue-blood bullshit artists

"Blue-blood bullshit artists like Whitman & Thomas Kean make me sick!"

You and me both.

Where are the structural

Where are the structural engineers that support your hypothisis jon?

See, I get angry when I see

See, I get angry when I see pictures like these...

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2001/Sep/11/bystanders_b.jpg
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/images/m1314.jpg
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/images/m15.jpg
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/images/m17.jpg
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/images/m18.jpg
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0110/images/m44a.jpg

And I think about all of the lies we were told about that day. And all of the lies we were told since that day. It gets me angry.

To people like Terrence, it makes them happy.

"Where are the structural

"Where are the structural engineers that support your hypothisis jon?"

It's spelled "hypothesis", and since when are structural engineers the foremost experts on environmental disasters?

"Oh please Jon Gold, please

"Oh please Jon Gold, please please please talk about the controlled demolition. It's the only thing I have links at the ready for."

Terrence, look at those

Terrence, look at those picture Jon posted & then tell me why you are protecting those who committed these atrocities!!! Let's have a real investigation!!!

Terrence is some sort of

Terrence is some sort of G-man or paid fraud monger. No honest person would cling to the "official story" after getting shellacked with the truth like he did here.

Jon cannot provide any

Jon cannot provide any reference to structural engineers, because he doesn't have any. No structural engineer in the United States believes that those building were brought down by controlled demolitions - the lynchpin of the conspiradroid argument.

Odd that don't you think?

Unless they're all part of the NWO/Illuminatti/area51/UFO/poison contrail/Bush consortium of evil....

Terrence, you never answered

Terrence, you never answered my question in the other thread.

Do you believe that the FBI and CIA were part of the 1993 WTC bombing?

If you answered NO, then you should do more research. Becasue they were.

So if the government was responsible for that attack, what makes you think that the 2001 attack they had no involvement?

It's only a small step once the government crosses the line, like they did in the past to a much larger attack on their own citizens.

Terrence, since your such an expert and have done so much research, please show me JUST ONE steel framed building that has fallen like the WTC's. Show me ONE! It does not matter what it was from, just one.

YOU CAN'T!

"It's only a small step once

"It's only a small step once the government crosses the line, like they did in the past to a much larger attack on their own citizens."

Exactly! Who would have believed that German "patriot" Hitler would go on to murder 6 million men/women/children!!!

"Jon cannot provide any

"Jon cannot provide any reference to structural engineers, because he doesn't have any. No structural engineer in the United States believes that those building were brought down by controlled demolitions - the lynchpin of the conspiradroid argument.

Odd that don't you think?

Unless they're all part of the NWO/Illuminatti/area51/UFO/poison contrail/Bush consortium of evil...."

Hmmmm...

Terrence, is Senator Mark Dayton part of the "NWO/Illuminati/area51/UFO/poison contrail/Bush consortium of evil"?

"the lynchpin of the

"the lynchpin of the conspiradroid argument."

Incidentally Terrance, your world would be a helluva lot easier if that statement were true. Lucky for me, it's not.

Remember the days... when

Remember the days... when you were sitting on the couch, watching all of the Mainstream news stations covering endlessly what Senator Mark Dayton had to say... aaaaaaah...

Wait? You say that didn't happen? What do you mean the media is controlled?

It is an often overlooked

It is an often overlooked fact that even if one were to accept that Siverstein meant pull the firemen, his statement is still evidence of foreknowledge that the building was about to come down.

And how could he possibly have foreknowledge if it were not a controlled demolition? I mean there was absolutely no historical precedent for such an event. The twin towers were not a historic precedent because they were constructed differently, and they were struck by airplanes (though no one predicted their collapse either).

"Ok, tell me where it's

"Ok, tell me where it's written that the White House didn't pressure the EPA to tell everyone the air was safe to breathe."

Jon, you mean to tell me that your entire research of 9/11 rests on that?

That's the strangest thing I have ever seen.

Please, I asked you a serious question and would like a serious response on what sources you rely on for your entire evaluation of 9/11.

"Ok, tell me where it's

"Ok, tell me where it's written that the White House didn't pressure the EPA to tell everyone the air was safe to breathe."

Jon, you mean to tell me that your entire research of 9/11 rests on that?

That's the strangest thing I have ever seen.

Please, I asked you a serious question and would like a serious response on what sources you rely on for your entire evaluation of 9/11"

Hmmmm... as I said earlier, "9/11 Truth entails a lot more than your feeble brain can comprehend." That was referring to Terrence at the time, but apparently that extends to you as well.

What sources do I rely on? A MULTITUDE of them. Whistleblowers, FBI agents, CIA agents, Mainstream news articles, books, and my own two eyes.

What sources do you rely on?

I cant stomach these comment

I cant stomach these comment sections anymore.

Next, you'll tell me that

Next, you'll tell me that the "War On Drugs" is real to... BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

In the 1930's, our

In the 1930's, our Government created the "War On Drugs". Today, we have more drugs in this country than we could ever use.

In the 1940's, our Government created the "War On Poverty". Today, we have more impoverished people than ever before.

On September 11th, 2001, our Government created the "War On Terror". Need I go on?

"I cant stomach these

"I cant stomach these comment sections anymore."

I think they can be instrumental for the "newcomer/lurkers" who want to hear what people have to say.

You're right though, they can be a pain in the arse.

Eating ham on Easter is an

Eating ham on Easter is an old English tradition to show your disdain for the Jews.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

http://nineeleven2001.tripod.com/images/ua175-1-a.swf

"Eating ham on Easter is an

"Eating ham on Easter is an old English tradition to show your disdain for the Jews."

I don't know if I should take offense to that or not.

AmandaReconwith, do you have

AmandaReconwith, do you have "disdain for the jews"?

I have disdain for hologram

I have disdain for hologram frauds like AmandaReconwith.

Welp, it's a beautiful day

Welp, it's a beautiful day outside... I'm going for a walk. ttfn.

"Please, I asked you a

"Please, I asked you a serious question and would like a serious response on what sources you rely on for your entire evaluation of 9/11."

Dude - what site do you think you're on? Do you go to amazon.com ask people if they sell books? This whole site is dedicated to the evaluation of 9/11 and the sources on which that evaluation is based. It's fair to challenge the credibility of specific sources but you invite ridicule by coming to this site to slap down a comment without even taking two minutes to see what people are talking about.

Jon, I'd appreciate if you

Jon,

I'd appreciate if you devoted to my suggestions/comments at least a fraction of the time you spend on replying to people who do not *discuss*.

Regarding WTC-7, although it remains officially unexplained, official bodies have speculated that fires brought it down. However, although the lowest floor with fires was, according to NIST, the sixth floor, the building seems to have undergone a traditional demolition, beginning from the bottom floor. An emergency worker who witnessed the collapse of WTC-7 was interviewed on 9/11. He described hearing what sounded like a "clap of thunder", followed by what looked like "a shockwave ripping through the building", with windows busting out, and "about a second later the bottom floor caved out and the [rest of] the building followed after that".

Oops, I forgot the

I have disdain for hologram

I have disdain for hologram frauds like AmandaReconwith.

Yep... They are nothing but deliberate misinfo shills, with no good intention at all. They are there so we can be cited as kooks etc.

Jon Gold... Keep up your battle of the trolls... You deal with them more effectively than that "lords of the ring fellowship" did :)

The trolls and dis/misinfo are so transparent now... I can almost see their "green code" (for Matrix fans).

Cheeeeeers to all genuine 9/11 truth seekers at 911blogger.com - great job

Incidentally Anonymous, you

Incidentally Anonymous, you need to ask yourself why the deaths 9/11 rescue workers, and the illnesses of 15,000 people would prompt you to even make the statement, "Jon, you mean to tell me that your entire research of 9/11 rests on that?"

As if the environmental disaster surrounding 9/11 isn't enough to hang Bush by his balls.

If you look at what Larry

If you look at what Larry Silverstein said, and how he said it, he could ONLY be referring to controlled demolition.

"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

"telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire"

That means the firemen thought they weren't going to be able to contain the fire. If they couldn't contain the fire, then that means what? They were going to let it burn? That's not safe is it? Controlled Demolition is a way old fire companies used to make sure fires within cities didn't spread.

What I find interesting is that a small fire on two floors was beyond the FDNY's capability of extinguishing. Especially when you take into account exactly what was in those buildings. The Secret Service, the CIA, the SEC, Mayor Rudy Guiliani's emergency bunker, etc...

"We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it."

Again, he couldn't be referring to letting the fire continue to burn. That's not safe.

"And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

He didn't say, "We pulled the firefighters out of there just in time because the building was about to collapse." or, "The firefighters informed me that the fire was going to bring down the building, and we should pull everyone out".

He said, "they made that decision to pull", period. "And we watched the building collapse", period.

"Terrence, is Senator Mark

"Terrence, is Senator Mark Dayton part of the "NWO/Illuminati/area51/UFO/poison contrail/Bush consortium of evil"?

Is Mark Dayton a structural engineer? No. Does Mark Dayton believe that the WTC was brought down by a secret Cabal of NWO buddies using controlled demolition? No.

Still waiting for you to provide me with a single structural engineer in the United States (you can add Canada, Britain and Australia if you like) who beleives in your ridiculous theory about controlled demolitions.

If you cannot, don't you think it's time to refute these stupidity yourself?

Jon, the trolls are becoming

Jon, the trolls are becoming desperate. The Sheen publicity is worrying them. Of course, guys like you keep hammering them too. Their arguments are falling faster than WTC-7. Keep up the great work!

"Is Mark Dayton a structural

"Is Mark Dayton a structural engineer? No. Does Mark Dayton believe that the WTC was brought down by a secret Cabal of NWO buddies using controlled demolition? No.

Still waiting for you to provide me with a single structural engineer in the United States (you can add Canada, Britain and Australia if you like) who beleives in your ridiculous theory about controlled demolitions.

If you cannot, don't you think it's time to refute these stupidity yourself?"

Terrence, you mean to tell me that your entire research of 9/11 rests on that?

Going for a walk.

Going for a walk.

"Terrence, you mean to tell

"Terrence, you mean to tell me that your entire research of 9/11 rests on that?"

Translation from conspiracy-speak into English:

"I cannot find ONE structural engineer anywhere who will agree with my outlandish theories. I will continue to believe them tho - because that is the nature of the conspiracy doofus...

"Jon, the trolls are becoming desperate. The Sheen publicity is worrying them."

Giggle. The "publicity" from this hack is pretty well over...

A REAL

Terrence, I noticed that you

Terrence, I noticed that you never once answered my questions!

Cummon! Answer the questions. And yes it is relavent to 9/11 because it shows a pattern by the government.

ANSWER THE QUESTION:

Terrence, you never answered my question in the other thread.

Do you believe that the FBI and CIA were part of the 1993 WTC bombing?

If you answered NO, then you should do more research. Becasue they were.

So if the government was responsible for that attack, what makes you think that the 2001 attack they had no involvement?

It's only a small step once the government crosses the line, like they did in the past to a much larger attack on their own citizens.

Terrence, since your such an expert and have done so much research, please show me JUST ONE steel framed building that has fallen like the WTC's. Show me ONE! It does not matter what it was from, just one.

YOU CAN'T!

"While there is growing

"While there is growing support in Congress for transformation, the “critical mass” needed to effect it has not yet been achieved. One may conclude that, in the absence of a strong external shock to the United States—a latter-day “Pearl Harbor” of sorts—surmounting the barriers to transformation will likely prove a long, arduous process. Providing support and oversight for this endeavor is a challenge worthy of this new committee."

[from]
Emerging Threats, Revolutionary Capabilities And Military Transformation
Published by Center for Strategic & Budgetary Assessments
March 5, 1999
http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publications/Archive/T.19990305.Emerging_Thre...

"Do you believe that the FBI

"Do you believe that the FBI and CIA were part of the 1993 WTC bombing?"

No. I also don't believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa, the Illiminatti, Bigfoot or 9/11 conspiracy theories.

"Terrence, since your such an expert and have done so much research, please show me JUST ONE steel framed building that has fallen like the WTC's."

Where have I said that I was an expert in structural engineering? I am not. I am, however, smart enough to listen to people who are. You dullards are the ones who ignore the experts in favor of idiotic "theories". No wonder you're so widely scorned...

"No. I also don't believe in

"No. I also don't believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa, the Illiminatti, Bigfoot or 9/11 conspiracy theories."

Shows how ignorant you really are.

World Trade Center bombing

In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, an Egyptian man named Emad A. Salem, a former Egyptian army officer. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to bomb the towers as early as February 6, 1992. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of the hundreds of possible suspects.

Salem, initially believing that this was to be a sting operation, claimed that the FBI's original plan was for Salem to supply the conspirators with a harmless powder instead of actual explosive to build their bomb, but that the FBI chose to use him for other purposes instead. [1] He substantiated his claims with hundreds of hours of secretly-recorded conversations with his FBI handlers, made during discussions held after the bombings. They are currrently in possession of the FBI.

Salem said he wished to complain to FBI headquarters in Washington about the failure to prevent the bombing despite foreknowledge, but was dissuaded from doing so by the New York FBI office. The FBI has never contradicted Salem's account.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html

The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to
complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the
Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by
an agent identified as John Anticev.

Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,

"He said, I don't think that the New York people would
like the things out of the New York Office to go to
Washington, D.C."

Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute
Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it,
saying of the `New York people':

"Well, of course not, because they don't want to
get their butts chewed."

Now, go do some research because it is really just too easy to show people just how ignorant you are.

Dispute the facts, but you can't!!!!!

Unless you can provide proof to counter this, then shut the hell up. If all you have is "your a conspiracy nut", then just go play with your little blankie in the corner and let the grownups talk.

Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old

Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used
by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle
of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases:
the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy
the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other
New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the
second bombing case, but his work for the Government was
erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast,
he was feuding with th F.B.I.

Terrence, wheres your

Terrence, wheres your evidence of JUST ONE

Terrence, wheres your

Terrence, wheres your evidence of JUST ONE steel framed building before or after 9/11 collapsing????

I'm not asking for too much! JUST ONE building!

previous post was me.....

previous post was me..... Somehow Anonymous got put in the Name.

Be like Charlie and stick to

Be like Charlie and stick to WTC7 and the crash at the pentagon.

Don't let people take you down some side alley and mug you.

the "did building 7 commit suicide video uses comedy to crack open people's mind so the truth has a chance of slipping in. It doesn't happen at once. Its the power of repetition. After awhile, people will begin to "feel" that there is something wrong with the official story.

Save me seats at the trial.

terrence is busy counting

terrence is busy counting his pubes

"Be like Charlie and stick

"Be like Charlie and stick to WTC7 and the crash at the pentagon.

Don't let people take you down some side alley and mug you."

Well, thats not always the best thing. Sometimes you have to bring evidence of prior events to make a link.

Just like a prossecutor does to a murder trial. He will bring in evidence of previous arrests or police calls for violence if he can to show the violent tendencies this person has.

It may or maynot muddy the water, but sometimes you have to show the link.

I see, when the name is

I see, when the name is blank it puts in Anonymous!

Terrance, your argument

Terrance, your argument against all 9/11 conspiricy theories is a petitio, it merely passively begs the question against our thoughts rather than actively refutes it. Im sure most of us have some pretty stong suspicions about WHY no structural engineer has come forward about the obvious demolition of wtc 7 and two towers, but without evidence, I for one would'nt propogate those theories. Because the one the the 9/11 truth movement values higer than anything else is evidence.

Also, your emphasis on the testimony of structural engineers is confusing, when we have physicist refuting the official 'fable' at the elementary level. Its pretty obvious to anyone that a building cannot collapse at freefall speed without its supporting colomns being destroyed from the bottom up. If you considered this fact objectively, just for a moment you would see how blind you are being.

FURTHERMORE - the evidence for the conspiricy that surrounds 9/11 is a cumulative case, starting in 1962 with operation northwoods and continuing today with human remains being found in places they couldnt possibly be.

Attacking one element of a cumulative case as large as this (and it is literally massive, with reams and reams of evidence of all types and natures, ranging from the scientific to the political to the plain common sensical)cannot, in any way, serve to refute the argument. Particularly in the spurious way that you are going about it.

You should really try to meet you opposition on a level worthy of them, rather than with this facetious argument. You are like a guy trying to debate philosophy of religion by going 'God couldnt make a rock so big that he cant lift'. You take a single petitio out of context and base a massive case on it.

Its weak, do better.

How about thinking of how to

How about thinking of how to wake the people up instead of focusing on a futile attempt to make an obvious troll "see the light"?

Here's what I wrote earlier:

While it is important to continue spreading information on the "grassroots level", what about selecting, say, 25 highly prominent and respected individuals (*and* known for relative open-mindedness) and educating them about 9/11?

Even if just one of them comes out in public addressing the 9/11 issue, it would have been worth the effort. Think if Jimmy Carter said the official explanation is bogus...

I may be mistaken, but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated campaign of this sort going on.

This would entail deciding on the individuals on whom to focus, finding ways to contact them, etc.

Jon is kicking ass as usual.

Jon is kicking ass as usual. Good job Jon!!!

Vesa, there are people who

Vesa, there are people who are of this calibur who are speaking out. It's just that the media is not reporting it.

How about one of Regans old WH people, sorry don't have the name or job he held.

There are many more people like this, but they are labeled as conspiracy theorists and/or traitors because they harbor the terrorists.

We don't need to get any more people like them to come forward, though it would not hurt, but we need the media and the government to stop sliming those that do come forward.

"Dude - what site do you

"Dude - what site do you think you're on? Do you go to amazon.com ask people if they sell books? This whole site is dedicated to the evaluation of 9/11 and the sources on which that evaluation is based."

I guess you can't answer the question I posed.

"As if the environmental

"As if the environmental disaster surrounding 9/11 isn't enough to hang Bush by his balls."

In other words, you can't come up with any sources to prove the trade center was brought down bt explosives.

"And how could he possibly

"And how could he possibly have foreknowledge if it were not a controlled demolition?"

The firemen's training and experience is all that was needed.

Ahh good the thread is still

Ahh good the thread is still active.

"Churchill [...] Mozart"

Arghhh never mention these two in the same sentence expect possibly when you are talking about Winston!

Regarding Pentagon:

Air defense failure and the location where the plane hit are indicative of complicity, not of 'no-plane'. The location and the maneuver the plane performed may indicate remote control, they do not mean 'no 757' or even 'no flight 77'.

Most eyewitnesses say 'large jetliner', especially those who got a good look.

"In the most unlikely event that someone had a camera, why wouldn't that camera/media just get confiscated as soon as the person brought it to anyone's attention???"

Far too much risk for the conspirators.

The exit hole is a mystery, but chasing it may not yield much: It was, after all, the Pentagon, they might have had some explosive ordnance at that spot.

*****

"We may never know how structurally damaged WTC7 was or was not. Ive seen photos of massive desvestation to one side, and others with massive billowing smoke."

link please

911blimp, the 'burst of light' is unconvincing, probably just aluminum impacting a wall at 500mph. The five Pentagon frames may be partial forgeries intended to make people falsely believe no 757 hit the building. If not, they're till too blurry to yield conclusive data.

"why would those suspicious 911 truthers derisively and divisively label 911 truthers who've noticed that the government's "plane theory" is fiction as "no-planers", and put up a web site to denounce them as "disinfo"?"

Because faulty information hurts the search for Truth.

"If 911 'truth' 'leaders' are not leading effectively"

Effective leadership requires separating fact from fiction such as 'no-757'.

*****

Couldn't you just ignore the disruptors? Concentrate on strategy.

*****

Vesa, are you Finnish? Associated with 11syyskuu.org?

"Terrence, common sense

"Terrence, common sense dictates that immense steel buildings do not implode without deliberate demolition. That schmuck Silverstein even admitted as much when he said, “pull-it” out of the side of his mouth."

Common sense tells me that you don't make claims without evidence.

Where is all this knowledge you are all supposed to have?

"That means the firemen

"That means the firemen thought they weren't going to be able to contain the fire. If they couldn't contain the fire, then that means what?"

They didn't have water. It is published all over that the water mains were destroyed by the collapse of the two towers.

Terrence is right, Jon. You guys haven't read a bloody thing on what happened on 9/11.

Jon Gold is not kicking ass.

Jon Gold is not kicking ass. He is getting distracted by trolls. Sure, provide a link or two with a two-sentence summary to those new to the subject, but do not get stuck in pointless debate with distractors.

Vesa is right, and his idea is good. However, the leader of such an enterprise would need to be very level-headed and sensible, and even so it could backfire, especially with copycat efforts organized by no-planers.

"Terrence, since your such

"Terrence, since your such an expert and have done so much research, please show me JUST ONE steel framed building that has fallen like the WTC's."

There are none which should be pretty obvious.

Show us any other buildings built like WTC that were hit by planes with fuel.

I am beginning to think this site is deliberately a parody of real 9/11 conspiracy sites, the stuff posted is so damn funny. Is this supposed to be satire?

"Where are the structural

"Where are the structural engineers that support your hypothisis jon?"

Don't have any, go fish. Do you have any former heads of the Star Wars program, former fathers of Reaganomics, Senators, Representatives, former German Defense Ministers, former Members of Parliament, physics professors, theologians, former cops, FBI translators, forer CIA analysts, former Governors, etc...?

"Jon is kicking ass as

"Jon is kicking ass as usual. Good job Jon!!!"

You're kidding, right? Terrence has so far proven his case and Jon hasn't yet been able to answer my simple question.

I'll give him so more time.

Nice blog you have here

Nice blog you have here Terrence!
oh, this isn't your blog? my bad.

So what were we talking about again?

If you want to really see

If you want to really see Jon's arguments get the snott kicked out of them - go to my blog...

You trolls seek "Thuh Truth"

You trolls seek "Thuh Truth" from one man? And you stand there and wait for it? Hehe!!

http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/mp3/unitedpolicestatesofamerica.mp3

There's no point in arguing

There's no point in arguing about anything on your blog Terrence. 95% of the "anonymous" posters are yourself, aka S. King, aka Sky King.

How many times can you

How many times can you conspiradroids be wrong? often it seems...

^Does that sound like a

^Does that sound like a genuine denial?

"You're kidding, right?

"You're kidding, right? Terrence has so far proven his case and Jon hasn't yet been able to answer my simple question.

I'll give him so more time."

I answered your question. Do you guys have to lie, and pray that no one reads all of the comments? What a way to live.

"If you want to really see

"If you want to really see Jon's arguments get the snott kicked out of them - go to my blog..."

Please, enlighten us here.

I just don't understand how

I just don't understand how people think the Bush Administration is above killing 3000 when they've been more than happy to kill upwards of250,000 people. That doesn't make sense.

Unless of course Muslims aren't people.

"I answered your

"I answered your question."

You avoided the question because you cannot provide a structural engineer in the entire english-speaking world who believes your fantasy crap.

And you're too pathetic to admit you're wrong....

"You avoided the question

"You avoided the question because you cannot provide a structural engineer in the entire english-speaking world who believes your fantasy crap."

Anonymous wrote, "Please, I asked you a serious question and would like a serious response on what sources you rely on for your entire evaluation of 9/11?"

And I responded with...

"A MULTITUDE of them. Whistleblowers, FBI agents, CIA agents, Mainstream news articles, books, and my own two eyes."

In regards to your structural engineer comment, I said the following...

"Don't have any, go fish. Do you have any former heads of the Star Wars program, former Fathers of Reaganomics, Senators, Representatives, former German Defense Ministers, former Members of Parliament, Physics professors, theologians, former cops, FBI translators, former CIA analysts, former Governors, etc...?"

Terrence, you bore me.

Why hasn't DZ banned these

Why hasn't DZ banned these clowns yet?

Just look at Terrence's blog, he got slapped down in the comments section but then tries to defend himself by posting under other pseudonyms! Hilarious.

"Just look at Terrence's

"Just look at Terrence's blog, he got slapped down in the comments section but then tries to defend himself by posting under other pseudonyms! Hilarious."

Terrence's blog is probably one of the best characterizations of conspiracy whackos I've seen yet. You guys were mentioned in the comments as a good example and it makes Terrence look even better.

Seriously, you guys are intellectual lightweights and never bothered to educate yourself on 9/11.

"Jon Gold is not kicking

"Jon Gold is not kicking ass. He is getting distracted by trolls."

Alas, it sure looks like that, although it is easy to be distracted by them.

Yes, I'm a Finn, and I've contributed to 11syyskuu.org.

We Finns can't stop laughing at how WTC-7, for instance, has been "investigated". First all the steel evidence is destroyed by the time FEMA publishes its report calling for further investigation after stating that their conclusions have "only a low probability of occurrence", and now the NIST lead investigator has publicly stated they still have no idea of what could have caused WTC-7 to collapse:

Interviewed in the March 2006 issue of New York Magazine, Dr S. Shyam Sunder, NIST lead investigator, summed up the present state of the investigation:

NIST did have "some preliminary hypotheses" on 7 WTC, Dr. Sunder said. "We are studying the horizontal movement east to west, internal to the structure, on the fifth to seventh floors." Then Dr. Sunder paused. "But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."

What a way to "investigate" a major building disaster. If a major highrise collapsed completely in seconds here, certainly no steel would be removed until the very final report had been written.

At least, not unless someone had something to hide...

"What a way to "investigate"

"What a way to "investigate" a major building disaster. If a major highrise collapsed completely in seconds here, certainly no steel would be removed until the very final report had been written."

That's a perfectly silly unsupported statement.

anonymous - Great to

anonymous - Great to know!

"That's a perfectly silly unsupported statement."

I'm sure that all the murderers will be happey to hear that the police don't need to keep evidence as it is until they can be documented. If there is a crime, just pick up everything and do what needs to be done to clean up the site.

Thats just a brilliant idea!!!!!

There is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.

Terrence says that the

Terrence says that the "controlled demolitions" are "the lynchpin of the conspiradroid argument."

I haven't even made up my mind about the WTC events, though I don't see a lot of validity in the collapse argument and I see a lot of evidence that points to the use of explosives.

But I've set aside the issue of the WTC "all fall down" and the Pentagon issues and I still see numerous issues that require -- demand -- further investigation, such as:

-- the obvious, documented and continuing efforts by the US gov't, starting with Bush and Cheney, to block, avoid, water down and counter-balance virtually every effort to investigate what happened;

-- significant indication of the use of PsyOps, MindWar, propaganda, disinformation, etc., including the use of PsyOps trained people at CNN, the house-cleaning at Popular Mechanics and the article which appeared six weeks later, etc.;

-- clear evidence of crimes committed that day, including the murder of thousands, the destruction of evidence, and more, none of which have been investigated, and for whom no one has been indicted save one who was not directly involved, who pled guilty, and for whom there aqre indications he is acting under duress or mentally ill;

-- the fact that investigations, evidence and formal reports, some required by law (e.g., NTSB) are not forthcoming;

-- significant evidence that the "perpetrators" were employed by, trained by and/or aided by the US government; indications that much of the "evidence" pointing to the 19 is either "legend", or planted, with statements by Mueller (FBI) that there is no evidence about the identity of the 19 that would stand up in a court of law;

-- numerous indications that the top tier of our military chain of command was not present for duty at the time of the attack; indications that Cheney, who has no Constitutional role in the military chain of command (as noted by the 9/11 Commission), was involved in military command;

-- a long chain of indicators that our intelligence system had significant advanced warning of the events;

-- extensive evidence that numerous people in law enforcement and intelligence were prevented from passing on critical knowledge.

So, whether a building collapsed, imploded or committed suicide is hardly the linch-pin issue.

The actions and behaviors of numerous people at the top level of our government before, during and after the events of 9/11 are the linch-pin issue.

Give it up, Terrence. Unless you are willing to tackle or defend the above, then you have no particular interest or credibility. In short, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

"So, whether a building

"So, whether a building collapsed, imploded or committed suicide is hardly the linch-pin issue."

You may not think so but not many people agree with you. It is the foundation of the Truth movement that WTC had to be brought down by explosives. Just ask Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, James Fetzer and Morgan Reynolds. They'll set you straight.

Well, anonymous, I'm not

Well, anonymous, I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily. The people you cited, and their arguments, are perhaps necessary to get the attention of Americans who are asleep, or unawake. It might be a good entry-level tactic. But it's potentially a pit into which some may fall if they don't buy the explosives argument and thus don't look any further. And if they don't look any further, then they will more readily buy the next batch of propaganda sent their way to seed their minds for forthcoming events... It's happening again as we speak with Iran and the bird flu. The media are being filled with half-truths and made-up stories, and we all buy them without inquiry or thought. The issue for me is that the government will not let us see what happened, what they did, what they thought, etc. The linch-pin for me is the war games and the many "exercises" held coincicentally on the same day to practice and prepare for events that took place at the same time. I and many others can no longer be dissuaded from our inquiry.

Hey anonymous with a

Hey anonymous with a lower-case A. You stand out like a sore thumb. Why don't you use your real name skyking@scientist.com?

aka Terrence

aka Terrence