Late Night Open Thread

I had a request for a grey '9/11 Pentagon Words' t-shirt as well as a logo shirt which can have your alias/handle printed on it - you can find both of these available now in our spreadshirt shop.

I must say that the 'pentagon words' shirt is one hell of a conversation starter, just have someone pick a topic and start talking. We don't have any markup on these shirts, so no profit is made from them, so don't feel obliged to buy one. The new grey shirt was a bit more since only their heavy stock t-shirts came in grey.

Hope to see some of you in Chicago this June, or at Ground Zero this 9/11 in the new shirts!

Slow late night, what's the word?

A Critical Review of WTC 'No

A Critical Review of WTC 'No Plane' Theories

by Eric Salter

28 September 2005

Update, 30 October 2005: Rebuttal to Nico Haupt

Update 2, 7 November 2005: WTC impact footage from WNYW

these no plane pushers

these no plane pushers bother me.......

I know very little about

I know very little about him, but you are not merely confusing his immigration initiaves with racism, right?
Able | 04.19.06 - 4:31 pm | #
no,although his,and most conservatives plans on immigration are unrealistic and borderline racist.check his record, hes a typical hateful ask for proof. is suggesting we nuke mecca after the next terror attack proof enough?

my whole point was, Tancredo

my whole point was, Tancredo is a true believer in the "evils" of muslims and the "war on terror". suggesting he talks 9/11 truth is extremely unrealistic.

Able--great article! In

Able--great article! In part:
"Both Clinton and Bush have gotten away with massive prosecutorial abuses, federal police brutality and dramatic attacks on due process for the accused, all while the people have argued over which side is the worse liar and central manager and not how best to restore liberty in America."

Hi Vesa! I must admit that

Hi Vesa!

I must admit that after 911 occured I was in MSM lalaland for a long time. Didn't even come to mind to question what I´d been told. makes one feel quite stupid.. :)

I cheked out the Griffin link, solid stuff, Thanks! Im sure to put the link in there as a reference.

The funny thing is, that when you try (and I have done this) to get some proof against the evidence shown by Mr. Griffin, S. Jones and others, you soon find out that there is none! Not one scientist, military expert or engineer has stepped up to challenge their case.

It seems to me that the most progress in the "debunking" field is being done by the people in the 911Truth movement itself, the Pentagon case for example. I think it would be necessary to inform the editor about the concept of disinformation and how people inside the 911Truth Movement are aware of it and are trying to stick to the facts. The facts are enough, let everyone connect the dots themselves.

Thanks for the WTC links also, the "Why indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse" site was superb! "But what if..." after another sent to the toilet along with the offical explanation.

Ja sitten suomeksi:
Kiitokset teille 11syyskuu -sivuston tekijöille! Tarpeellista tavaraa koska kaikkien enklanti ei aina riitä vaikka kiinnostusta olisikin :)

Onko tietoa mahd. tulevista tapahtumista Helsingin alueella, luentoja yms. 911 liittyvää?

Toivotaan että HeSa:ssa laitetaan tikkuja ristiin!


Able: yes, I got your email.

Able: yes, I got your email. I'll get back to you.


I think the following article by Griffin exhaustively proves that none of the official explanations for the lack of air defenses cannot be true:

"Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93: The 9/11 Commission's Incredible Tales"

It also deals with Minera's important testimony. It is definitely worth listing in your sources.

Other important and persuasive articles include:

"The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True"

"Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?"

Until democrats and libs

Until democrats and libs start to wake up to the fact they were lied to about 9/11, there is much much work to be done.

It also highly worries me, theories I personally believe to have little to know merit get propigated, but to call those people 'disinfo' agents is ridiculous. Anytime someone mentions something the conspir...I mean 9/11 truth posters dont like, theyre claled a disinfo agent. So lets leave the no pod/no plane/freemason illuminati bullshit out of it, and focus on 9/11 as a cause of activism. Like Ghandi wanting the British out of the UK, or people exposing US complicity in the East Timor genocide.

Oh yeah, how is Alex Jones able to get these big interviews with top former government officials going on the record about 9/11? He definately has a gift for sure, as I never see any other radio progam get the amount of non conspiracy theorist expert interviews about 9/11 and other issues he gets.

BTW, what was the 24 episode about two days ago?

An article about the

An article about the bipartisan nature of the police state development:

Remember Sen. Mark Dayton

Remember Sen. Mark Dayton berating Kean and Hamilton when the final 911 Commission report was released? He talked at length about the changing stories of the Norad and FAA timelines and used the word 'coverup' in an emotional tirade against the co-chairs. Too bad he's not seeking reelection. Others such as Conyers, Levin, Kucinich, Feingold, Paul and maybe Weldon have been fighting the good fight in different arenas. Too bad its such a short list.

Cynthia McKinney rocks!

I've been actively

I've been actively researching this stuff for only 2 months or so, not that that has anything to do with my opinion that McKinney is a tool. I'm with Able. Kudos for advancing the movement, but quit being such an embarrassment in the process.

Mckinney is a tool? than

Mckinney is a tool? than what do you call the other hundreds of politicians that willfully ignore 9/11?(including your favorite politician) tool? really? wow. i think you need to do some more research. maybe then you'll "get it".

Yea see I'm not sure what

Yea see I'm not sure what kind of "research" would change anything. As easy as it is to say "I know more about one of the issues she talks about so therefore my opinion of her is more valid," I think you need to realize the disconnect between the good she's done and how she portrays herself.

Bombing Mecca is madness.

Bombing Mecca is madness. Wanting to protect the border of your country is not.

I wish I hadn't picked Tancredo as an example of a visible rightwinger who has a reason to be disillusioned about Bush, but do you have any specific proof of Tancredo's racism? I know very little about him, but you are not merely confusing his immigration initiaves with racism, right?

we are all human we are all

we are all human
we are all tools at some point
we are all fools at some point
we all make mistakes

but we are all here....

let's make the most of it and help each other...

don't forget the MISSION

goddamn focus was on the

goddamn focus was on the Publish button ---

--if that's what you were implying. I did note that McKinney has adcanced 9/11 Truth, which is great, but I don't like her. Is there a problem with this position?

Mckinney has been called

Mckinney has been called insane for asking tough questions about 9/11(she was called insane way before the capitol police flap). Tancredo has been called insane for calling for the bombing of mecca,and for a gigantic wall along Mexico(yeah, that will work right?).which is more insane to you?

no problem at all, but

no problem at all, but Tancredo is still a typical racist ass conservative puppet who wouldnt dare question 9/11.Is there a problem with this position?

Demolition special on Modern

Demolition special on Modern Marvels tomorrow evening on the History Channel... 8pm fyi

Perhaps someone could write

Perhaps someone could write a comic book/comic strip of 9/11 truth???

"The 9/11 Report, A Graphic

anyone else catch the 24

anyone else catch the 24 from last night? just watching it now.. about 10 minutes in there is a really good clip about how the president facilitated a terrorist attack to mobolize on the oil rich middle east.. and how the public couldn't handle it if the truth came out.

if anyone cares to rip the video let us know.

Wow, sounds like the plot to

Wow, sounds like the plot to the lone gunmen. Damn, I definately want to see this.

Word is... We're actually in

Word is...

We're actually in early Stage Three of the "Three Stages of Truth"
(see full comment 2 threads down)

" Perhaps someone could

" Perhaps someone could write a comic book/comic strip of 9/11 truth???"

perhaps a JFK like spin on the 9/11 truth facts?

I always fantasize about what a JFK style 9/11 movie would be like.

anonymous, here is one such


here is one such comic strip, perhaps you could contact its creator?

I do have a 9-11 truth comic

I do have a 9-11 truth comic book kicking around here somewhere- with the 4 horsemen of the apocalppse on the cover (the neocons) I'll try to dig it up and let you know who made it- it came out a few years ago.

for those who missed the 24

for those who missed the 24 episode, here is a short clip:

basically the president authorized killing the ex-president who found out that the president provided terrorists with a WMD to use in order to justify going to war in the middle east for oil. it was an 'inside job'.



Has any one heard of "

Has any one heard of " National Write Your Congressman" NWYC
Some guy came into my work today and asked if we could talk and he will get the message to my local congressman. It was wierd.
I was thinking about telling his about 9/11, but it might be a scam.

This article

This article

made me think...

how many sports figures know 9/11 was an inside job? Perhaps an education campaign to major baseball, football, basketball, etc players would do some good. They have lots of money! All we need is a few of them to step forward like Charlie Sheen did

what is going on in Chicago

what is going on in Chicago in June? I live here and I'd love to know of local events that spread the truth., an, an AIPAC-whipped Left Gatekeeper site, has quite a history of trying to steer and then finally deleting 911-Truth discussion threads.

This thread about Loose Change 2 seems to have legs though, it's lasted a few days now without being deleted:

The shills are there trying to steer it. But it's notable that smirkingchimp's AIPAC administrators know at this point, that prohibiting 911-Truth discussion destroys their own credibility more than it works to maintain the more "Israel friendly" official 911 CT-- so they're back to trying to steer these threads when they appear.

That's quite a mark of progress for 911-Truth!

Why are so called Bush

Why are so called Bush hating liberals so against the truth coming out on 9/11?
IS anyone else baffled by this? I mean I hate to say it, but maybe Alex Jones is right about both parties being controlled by the same mentality and interests. Having strawman Bonesman Kerry run against Bush couldnt make this anymore clear.

Ha, yeah that was me that did that comic. I don't think I'd have the time to create an entire '9/11 truth' comic book...there's just too much we don't know. Why arent we seeing 9/11 Truth political comics in newspapers and online?

The only one seems to be The Boondocks, who even a few months after 9/11 was slipping in heavy does of exposing the 9/11 coverup in his comic strip.

Dr Jones paper now at draft

My father got to talk about

My father got to talk about 9.11 with the head of the Editor in Chief of the biggest newspaper here in Finland. When asked wether he knows about the 911Truth Movement and the "conspiracy theory", he said that he had looked into it two years ago but didn't report it because he thought the evidence wasnt sound enough.

My father then promised to send him a memo that highlits the most prominent issues around the 9.11 coverup and asked the newspaper to act upon it by assembling a team of investigative journalists. The Editor in Chief promised that he would look into it.

Now, alot of progress has been made in the two years, since he last heard of the 911Truth Movement, and we are now trying to put all of this on 2-3 A4 pages.

Please give your opinions on what to include and what to exclude from the memo. Any links to these "Top Reasons For Doubting The Official Story" -pages would be highly appreciated.

@Reko: I think government


I think government foreknowlege is the strongest case. The fact Bush had forcibly made it so FBI agents could not investigate the hijackers or al Qaeda, even as the CIA was following the hijackers. The fact NORAD was running war games simulating 9/11 like events with real live fighter jets as the attacks happened. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's testimony about Cheney and Flight 77 and possible standdown orders. Pakistani ISI funding of 9/11 and the coverup. The doctored EPA air quality reports. The bogus link between 9/11 and Iraq. Bush' brother the head of a company that until sept 11th 2001 ran security on the WTC and the two airports/airlines used in 9/1(tho that may simply just be a coincidence)
The fact they wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan by any means neccesary before 9/11. The fact they seemed to know 'who did it' immediately after it happened. The Bush stalling of the 9/11 commission for over 400 days. The CIA origins of al Qaeda and Osama. The whole Pentagon thing, while interesting, to me is very inconclusive. There's just so much to sift through it's quite daunting.

Building 7! The 8 mile

Building 7!
The 8 mile debris track from flight 93!

The foreknowledge is quite allright, as long as it isn´t pushed so hard, that it just looks like that maybe "someone" knew "something"... it´s pivotal that the point of an inside job is made.

Also, I think that it would be great to reference the different polls (CNN, Zogby, Canadian), as well as the impressive array of "important" people questioning the official story

Time.Com Exclusive: Was 9/11

Time.Com Exclusive: Was 9/11 An Inside Job?,8599,175953,00.html

Washington Times: Former Bush W official Thinks 9/11 was an inside job:

MSNBC.Com(archived) 9/11 Hijackers Trained At US Bases?

9/11 Casualties Purposefully Kept At A Minimum?

Hmmm, why wouldnt al Qaeda want MAXIMUM casualties?

Hei Reko! There seem to be

Hei Reko!

There seem to be quite a few Finns on this board.

Pockybot lists very important points (with the exception of the EPA reports, which I don't think qualify as evidence here). In addition to those, I think WTC 7 is very important, as Peter Kofor also points out. Here's my own analysis of it:
(in Finnish)
(in English)

A few days after 9/11, I remember reading from our national daily newspaper that a third skyscraper also collapsed that day. In the same issue there was a WTC building plan and I kept wondering why WTC 7 should also have collapsed, considering how far it seemed to have been from the North Tower (and it was, 350 feet away). But my suspicions
soon subsided, as the newspaper never mentioned Building 7 again, nor any of the other suspicious things.

Here's a picture of the

Here's a picture of the inside of WTC7's
bunker command center:

Now ya have to ask yourself, if you believe in the theory that WTC1&2 were demolished, was this where the crime took place? Or, as Webster Tarpley believes, it was orchestrated in some far off private company related to the US government?

"Why are so called Bush

"Why are so called Bush hating liberals so against the truth coming out on 9/11?"

Part of the reason is that exposing the Truth on 9/11 reveals a bi-partisan pattern of engagement with the "Afgan Arabs", that continued after the demise of the USSR.

I haven't posted on KOS lately, but I obtained permission from Peter Dale Scott to post a chapter from his forthcoming book there;

"Al Qaeda and the US Establishment"

Along the same lines;

"9/11 in Historical Perspective: Flawed Assumptions"

Nafeez Ahmed studies the issue of Western entanglement with al-Qaeda in depth;

"Subverting 'Terrorism'"

If you want to contact your

If you want to contact your member of congress regarding the Iran war, here's a good site to help you do it:


I don't think there was any

I don't think there was any media commentary (none that I saw) about Cheney having 3 injured Iraq/Afghanistan servicemen with him when he threw out the pitch. Its a remarkable thing that he and his handlers thought he needed those injured servicemen to be there for Cheney to hide behind their tragedies.

San Francisco Chronicle

Hi Jon, we had that article

Hi Jon, we had that article submitted to the Blogger too. That author might be in for a Truth Spanking wouldn't you say?

I think we need something along the lines of the Blogger Brigade, that all goes on the offensive and attacks whenever articles like that come out.

Check out this Rolling Stone

Check out this Rolling Stone cover:

JM, look on the right panel,


look on the right panel, it says june 2-4 in chicago.. its being held by

JM, check it

Well, tell them to go talk

Well, tell them to go talk to Mark Morford.

Hi everybody, and thanks for

Hi everybody, and thanks for your views! (sorry it took time to reply)

I myself have been following the 911 Truth movement for about over a year now, seen the documentaries, read Omissions And Distortions and gone thru everything I could find on the net.

What really blew me away in the first place was WTC 7 and the freefall speed of towers 1 and 2. I think that in getting someones attention, someone who already has a predisposition things, it´s necessary to put the most simple evidence up front. Once the initial interest is raised then go to the more complex stuff. I would be careful in not trying to give answers but to show the inconsistencies, and questions that go against the official story.. and let human curiosity do the rest.

If it can be proven to the journalists that the "omissions and distortions" of the 911 Commission (still seen by our government and media as the final truth on those events) are for real, I think that should ring "FRONTPAGE!" somewhere in the back of their minds.

But of course they fear making a fool of themselves and fear being disrespected and ridiculed for bringing this up. They propably think that if none of their collegues have written about this there must be something wrong with it.

The newspaper in question made a small "idiot conspiracy theorists" -type of article a few years back concerning a screening of a 911 document, and portrayed the people as tinfoil-hat wearing, antisemitist loonies. Prettymuch the same slandering stuff we see in the MSM allover the world.
Now we are asking the same newspaper to take this stuff seriously.

In this, your idea of showing the different pollresults, giving a list of scholars, engineers, politicians, the victims families, ex CIA and FBI and other "serious" (and yes, Im thinking of including Mr. Sheen :) people who are behind the 911Truth Movement, sounds good to me.
You know, let them know right away that this no little internet thing of a few people with too much time on their hands.

The toughest job is to convince them to put aside their natural (and media fed) fear of "conspiracy theories" for just a while, and have an open mind.

We are just compiling the memo with my dad and maybe well post it here before we send it to the editor, a good idea?

The Newspaper has a spread of over 400 000 people in our country of 5 mil. so to get this stuff in there would be great, and we really want to do this right!

Thanks again, I´ll be going thru the links you posted..

I hope Morgan uses this clip

I hope Morgan uses this clip by Scott Myers in his May 6th presentation. It clearly shows that a jet plane did not strike WTC 2. Jet planes explode and break apart upon impact.

"It clearly shows that a jet

"It clearly shows that a jet plane did not strike WTC 2."


Did you say that outloud?


And you wonder why they think we're nutty crazy tinfoil hat wearing kool aid drinking conspiracy nuts...


AmandaREconwith, do you


do you really think that is the strongest evidence we have going for us? over everything there is, do you really think your opinion on the 2nd plane being a hologram, or CGI, is really something we should put up front and center? i dont.

im sorry, but anything that is left to interpretation will not be taken well, especially such an idea as you always suggest.

there is a ton more solid evidence which should be brought up first, and almost all of it can be found in any of Griffin's recent presentations.

speaking of Truth Spankings,

speaking of Truth Spankings, Alex Jones at Prison Planet
this morning rips on the above-noted San Francisco Chrononicle hit piece on for its claim that the whole country saw the plane fly into the Pentagon

Sorry, had to bump this from

Sorry, had to bump this from a couple of threads down, talked to someone today who said "I read on 911blogger that all that crap about Bush seeing the 1st plane hit is a common mistake".

About seeing the first plane hit, and Anonymous' frantic effort to throw in every google result in a seperate post:

It is quite a different thing who you ask and when you ask it. If everything is correct, Bush didn't see anything until after couragously attempting to decipher My Pet Goat. It doesn't matter if he said first or second, on which tv he thinks he saw it, whether he really thought it was a bad pilot. He clearly stated several times he saw it on tv before he entered the classroom. There's no cognitive fuckups in that one.

Because of several witness

Because of several witness statements, I think a boeing hit the Pentagon :(

geggy, there is nothing


there is nothing wrong with that, i think you will find a large number of 9/11 activists who believe 77 hit the pentagon, unfortunately saying such things gets you blacklisted from some..

just as saying it didnt hit the pentagon gets you blacklisted from others.

the 9/11 community is fractured over the pentagon, and i think it is safe to say that 77 definately could have hit it, but the approach path vs hanjour's abilities, as well as the confiscation and destruction of evidence, is more than enough to question the pentagon as a whole..

release the tapes!

I don't know what hit the

I don't know what hit the Pentagon. I'm just noting other people noting falsehoods as they arise.

Sorry about recent typos. I'm disrespecting 911blogger with lazy typing. I'll try to stand up and fly right.

Wondering if people here are

Wondering if people here are continuing to hammer Oprah, Rolling Stone, The Christian Science Monitor and other larger venues for breaking this story into the MSM?
I seems like a long shot to me sometimes, but it *is* something I can do every day: just keep the pressure on.

i suggest every body e-mail

i suggest every body e-mail the writer of the sf chronicle hit piece and politely tell her she made a glaring error in her article claiming everybody saw a plane hit the pentagon. While it may be true (and i would stress this in the e-mail) it is a journalistic error and that she needs to clarify or change her article to state the actual facts.

I've bumped-up part of

I've bumped-up part of manhattanite's post from a previous thread:
"My favorite way is to present photographs of the explosion that preceded the fall of the North Tower. If anyone looks at these pictures it is obviously an explosion and a very large one at that. Then provide the easily verifiable information that this explosion took place well after all the jet fuel had burned away and ask 'What caused this explosion?'"...

These photos are excellent! All hi-res photos & video clearly reveal far, far more than towers "falling" was occurring!!! Those towers were erupting & exploding!!! Just look at the pictures!!!

" Because of several witness

" Because of several witness statements, I think a boeing hit the Pentagon"

dont be ashamed, one of the first 9/11 truth movies/displays i saw was for the Pentagon conspiracy. That infamous flash movie with the fight club music in the background. While it was nicely put together, i dont think its much more than entertainment. They dont touch upon anything besides the PEntagon.
Over time i realized that even if the pentagon wasnt hit by a plane, we have absolutely no proof to say so. We can speculate all we want about "what might have happened", but there are so many other insonsistencies and glaring omissions in the 9/11 comision report that we shouldnt have to resort to speculation like this.

As Bush says, take the

As Bush says, take the battle to the terrorist. Let's do that. Run for Congress.

Once you are an official candidate for Novembers election you may "earn" some press coverage. Otherwise, in their eyes, we're just a bunch of aluminum foil hat wearing nuts. This might be the only way you and I can break the media silence.

If you're not up for that then identify the people who are running for congress and distribute information to them and catch it on camera (as Alex Jones might) AND their supporters at rallies. Ask the basics: did you know 3 buildings collapsed, fire never has taken down high rises, do you know who Marvin Bush is important to come across as creditable.

The next congress will be the people who decide what Cheney can get away with for the next 2 years. “They” need a supportive (or passive) Congress. They would much rather have us all spend our energy typing away in blogs, and recruiting people a few at a time at screenings.

Congress is where true change will take place. We want democracy & representation well this is where it happens. This is where it gets their attention...just look to New Hampshire.

Candidate Gary Dodds (who knows about 9/11, and calls for troops out of Iraq by 2007)from the 1st district in NH, had mysterious single car accident, swam across a creek, went missing for 24 hours, then can't remember anything. I believe this is a warning to him.

So, get a DVD of Jones or Griffin to every State and Federal official currently in office. Go to GOP and DEM national web site, find your State’s candidates and go to their events. Face to face contact with people who aren't looking for this information is where me must go. Distribute Griffin DVD’s to churches. But with each new contact you meet, make a request of them: sign ST911 petition, make your own petition, form a rally at your State house, enter a “9/11 memorial float” in your towns 4th of July parade; pass out flyers along the route. This will be a huge opportunity to tap into peoples patriotic feelings.

Approach them with a positive attitude, not fear and hate. We have an opportunity to build on our countries mistakes and apathy. I believe that Cheney really thought this was what we had to do for national security (ie Oil). It seems as though we are going to run out soon, and then 9/11 won't seem all that important. We must look at this as a wake up call for where we need to go in the light of the looming peak oil crisis, not merely a witch hunt of the evil doers.

What ever you doÂ…start right now.

I have a moderate

I have a moderate conservative friend at work who is curious to hear more about 9/11, but I'm competing with my libertarian co-worker who's already pushing the "no planes" story.

Can someone point me to a concise, rational FAQ that focuses on the collapses, not on the planes, and one that doesn't invoke holograms or other "no-plane" hypotheses? I don't like because it looks very cheap and unprofessional, and spends too much time criticizing other 9/11 skeptics.

Any of you guys know about

Any of you guys know about William Rodriguez, the last man pulled out of the towers. Check his story out, he with 14 others are witnesses to explosions in the basement before the north tower collapsed. He testified before the 9/11 commission, but his testimony was completed ignored.

timber: just use Professor

timber: just use Professor Jones' paper

I'm down for the "Blogger

I'm down for the "Blogger Brigade" sbg and Jon. just sent Mark Morford an e mail.

Robbie I think there's more

Robbie I think there's more then just one error in her paper.

I think that a high-quality

I think that a high-quality comic book has great potential to spread 9/11 truth!!! It would be particularly good if it was not copyrighted/public domain, & could be printed out freely on home computers, etc.

Such a comic book would be more versatile than flyers in handing out at demonstrations, leaving stacks of them in libraries, college dorms, supermarkets, etc. Depending on how well-written & how fine the artwork, it could become a huge hit like the old “underground comix” books of the 1960s.

For example, eye-catching caricatures depicting goat-boy Bush, PNAC, WTC-7 dropping like a ton of bricks, NORAD/FAA more confused than Keystone cops, Cheney w/Norman Mineta watching while Pentagon is slammed, Silverstein saying “Pull-it” out of the side of his mouth, illustrations of Profs. Jones & Griffin at a blackboard exposing truth, Alex Jones screaming his head off, etc.!!!!!!!!

" Robbie I think there's

" Robbie I think there's more then just one error in her paper."

definitly, but that was one obvious one where she blatantly disregards well known publically availible facts. Its glaring enough that she might even correct it in the next issue. At least i hope so.

Maybe Mark from the SF Gate

Maybe Mark from the SF Gate can knock some sense into here.

Check out the cover of

Check out the cover of Vanity Fair with Al Gore, George Clooney et . .

These are the folks who are concerned about the planet earth and need the 911 story to crack things open.

that cover almost made me

that cover almost made me gag, why are people so into global warming? Arent there thousands of other things that humans can actually help improve about the environment? Why they focus on such an unknown and ambiguous thing like global warming is beyond me. They definitly need some waking up.

Post # 101001 didn't stay

Post # 101001 didn't stay here very long before it was wiped from Donald's political forum.

The former top economist in Bush's Department of
Labor, Morgan Reynolds, will speak out on the 9/11
inside job at the State Historical Society, University
of Wisconsin-Madison on Saturday, May 6th. The film
Loose Change will be shown, and refreshments served,
starting at 1 p.m, and Reynolds will speak at 3:00

Jet planes explode upon impact and break into pieces.
They do not melt into a building many, many, many
times it's own mass.

Hey Donald, are you ever going to print the truth
about 9/11 or would that upset MOSSAD?

" Check out the cover of

" Check out the cover of Vanity Fair with Al Gore, George Clooney et . ."

speaking of Al Gore, i distincitly remember right after 9/11 him warning people in a speech that there was something fishy going on and that Bush was taking advantadge of the scenario to instill irrational fear in people to make them more submissive. Anybody know what speech im talking about?

AmandaReconwith--Stop this

AmandaReconwith--Stop this no-planes at the WTC horseshit!!! Look what a small plane did to an Italy skyscraper:

And you can show this to

It's official... SBG, DZ,

It's official... SBG, DZ, and myself are sharing a room in Chicago.

Little do they know that I snore.


Dear Sirs,

I thought that you would find the following video clip of interest. The Plain Dealer did.

AmandaReconwith:"Jet planes

AmandaReconwith:"Jet planes explode and break apart upon impact."

^Yea like exactly what happened to the Towers! Of course REAL planes struck the buildings, and even if they didnÂ’t shit like that sounds way to wild, focus on the facts not the fiction!

Amanda isn't going to stop

Amanda isn't going to stop posting. That's its' job. To discredit the movement.

Amanda: Please stop

Amanda: Please stop posting. You are a liability to the movement.

Everyone else: Please ignore everything Amanda says. She's a kook.

AManDaReconWith is here to

AManDaReconWith is here to poison the well, and leave nuggets for the next "popular mechanics" type article to debunk and marginalize the whole subject. As hard as AMan.. and 911Blimp try to wedge and steer the 911 Truth Movement, no one is taking their bait as far as I can tell. Kudos to y'all for properly ignoring the turd droppings of our resident gummit shills.

there is no problem with

there is no problem with them having their opinions, it is only their intent that their opinions are provable as fact, which i do not believe - and i have looked at every link they have posted.

Re: Monday's episode of 24,

Re: Monday's episode of 24, did anyone catch the line about the official story "collapsing like a house of cards". was that a little jab at the NIST report? heh! i would love to speak to the writers one day and see where they stand on the 9/11 issue. i would bet money some of them believe that 9/11 has been a lie.

This here is a great

This here is a great article
911 and the Precautionary Principle: Aircraft Parts as a Clue to their Identity
by George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (ret.)

just the fact that there are

just the fact that there are so many questions, ambiguities, avoidances, etc. shows that we are not being told the entire truth.

Yes pw, I also found that to

Yes pw, I also found that to be a fine article, given that my first hot-buttons were "Where are the black boxes" and "Where are they rebuilding the AIRcraft#^?!"

Remember how the news showed people over at Fresh Kills (ahem..) going through the debris on conveyor belts with loving care, in search of tiny pieces of remains... but NO black boxes. Hmph.

9/11 Commission Report:
76. In accordance with FAA regulations, United 93’s cockpit voice recorder recorded the last 31 minutes of sounds from the cockpit via microphones in the pilots’ headsets, as well as in the overhead panel of the flight deck. This is the only recorder from the four hijacked airplanes to survive the impact and ensuing fire.The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found,and the CVR from American Flight 77 was badly burned and not recoverable.

[re Katrina levees] Corps project manager Al Naomi: "I don't think it's right to make some type of judgment now. It's like presuming the reason for a plane crash without recovering the black box."

Today the San Francisco

Today the San Francisco Chronicle had an article from a vicious journalist Cinammon Sewel, bashing 9/11 conspiraists as looney. Somthing they always do when they don't want to look at the facts and issues behind the theories.

A call for letters to the editor:

Hey Jon, go ahead and book

Hey Jon, go ahead and book the hotel on your credit card, I'll pay you back, I'm good for it...

"the 9/11 community is

"the 9/11 community is fractured over the pentagon,"

...This is unfortunate. The focus should not be on whether or not a plane hit the Pentagon but on how in the world anything was able to hit the pentagon AT ALL let alone flight 77... lets get this straight ...50 years, 50 trillion dollars, the cold war, russian missles, star wars, mushroom clouds, paranoid leaders, and the Headquarters of the largest military in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD with over 30 minutes advance notice can't prevent itself from being hit by a relatively slow moving object like a boeing 757 piloted by a half-wit hijacker on a known suicide mission.
Ridiculous. And then, amazingly, after a blunder of this magnitude, the absolute failure of the department of defence , noone's held responsible, noone is fired, no resignations, only promotions and an increased budget. Huh?


Ralph Russell is my Great-great-great Grandfather who formed the North Union Shaker Society in 1822. He donated a thousand acres to form the society which is also known as "The Valley of God's Pleasure". (He left the society, thus I.)

Rebecca Nurse is my Eleventh Generation Grandmother who was hung as a witch on July 19, 1692.

Funny story about the Russell name and the Illuminati. The written text of Ralph Russell's trek from Connecticut to the lands of the Western Reserve included a narrative in which he reports following a mystic glowing light which led him to the land he purchased in the Firelands.

correction of journalist

correction of journalist name, it's really Cinammon Stillwell, not Sewell.

Either way, Cinnamon is toast, her career over effective today. She will continue only as a mere shadow of what she used to be. What a moron this woman is!

Letters to the San Francisco Chronicle Editor:

"Hey Jon, go ahead and book

"Hey Jon, go ahead and book the hotel on your credit card, I'll pay you back, I'm good for it..."

I was going to say the same thing to you.

Here... do you need my

Here... do you need my numbers?

5441 2533... ooooooooooooooooh... you almost got me. You sneaky devil.

Is anyone else saddened that

Is anyone else saddened that out of all of congress the only one on our side is Cynthia McKinney, a known racist and all-around nut-job? It'd be great if the movement could attract a normal, respectable congress member (if there is such a thing).

A bit harsh, carn. I'll

A bit harsh, carn. I'll accept McKinnyey's help.

The Beloved Cynthia

The Beloved Cynthia Mckinney
A White Ex Cop Speaks Out About a Georgia Congresswoman
by Michael C. Ruppert
April 11, 2006

Cinnamon Stillwell could be

Cinnamon Stillwell could be on the truth side. She put a lot of web resources into that column for anyone to check out.

Reko Castren, thank you for

Reko Castren, thank you for your efforts. Some of the top issues are:

1) motivation: 9-11 was a neocon wet dream in every way
2) precedent and prior plans: Gulf of Tonkin, Northwoods, etc.
3) foreknowledge: they received numerous warnings
3) evidence: examples --
* air defense failure
* WTC7 demolition
* behaviour of Secret Service in Florida
* eyewitness testimony: Norman Mineta
4) extremely suspicious and extensive coverup effort
5) severe omissions and distortions in the official story

Additionally, Flight 93 was probably shot down: the debris field indicated a midair trauma, witnesses described a missile.

Downplay possible Israeli involvement, Pakistan is a stronger case.

These are the most idiotic errors:
* WTC planes were holograms or whatever
* a 'pod' attached to the second plane that hit the towers
* a nuclear bomb at the WTC

In the past two years "no 757 at the Pentagon" has been shown to be almost certainly an incorrect theory. The other central points still stand, undiminished.

Please make the editor (is that Virkkunen btw?) understand that there is a lot of disinformation out there, but the facts still point to an inside job with arab patsies.

If they make an article and it doesn't mention Elvis, bogus moon landing theories and anti-Semitism but does point out a couple of the central facts, I'll be happy.

The all-around best website is
according to, well, most sensible people. :)

(I'm Finnish and if you have more questions just give me your email address.)


Vesa, I sent you an email, did you receive it?

Hey guys off topic, but hey

Hey guys off topic, but hey it's kinda slow right now, I'm a member on a couple different forums, and I'm looking for some cool 9-11 avatars to use. Any help would be cool, Thanx

Oh, and I can't wait till

Oh, and I can't wait till tomorrow. 4/20. He He!

I can appreciate the "I have

I can appreciate the "I have friends so therefore I can't be racist" argument as much as anyone, but watching her being interviewed and going on and on about how the only reason she was stopped is because she was black (automatically assuming racism is extremely racist) and "much ado about a hairdo" (I'm sure she worked hard on that one) as if she could read the security guard's mind just left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

The fact that she absolutely refused to answer the question of what actually happened that day, despite being asked repeatedly and being interrupted every time she tried to change the subject (great interview on CNN) also reeks of political/racial grand-standing and seeking for an excuse to whine about perceived injustices despite the facts of the event.

She has a well-documented history of crying racism and you can only do that so many times before people start ignoring you.

I don't like McKinney either

I don't like McKinney either but she has advanced 9/11 Truth. If only Ron Paul were to speak on the issue... Or maybe Tancredo, wouldn't that be a blast!

Ruppert's defense of her is obnoxious and focuses mostly on... Ruppert himself. No surprise there.

Maybe a quick one liner I

Maybe a quick one liner I could use as a signature that appears at the bottom of every post. I was thinking along the lines of.
47 storys + 6.6 seconds = controled demolition.

or 7 minutes with a retard.

7 minutes with a retard. And have a link to Bush at booker elementary.

i gotta disagree carn, the

i gotta disagree carn, the whole crying racism stuff may be annoying(but again, none of us were there, so its hard to hate on her for that,and remember,the media as a whole has a vested interest in bashing Cynthia Mckinney because she makes them look pathetic by doing their jobs for them and asking tough questions.the CNN interview was deplorable on Soledads part), but Cynthia Mckinney was the only politician i can remember asking Richard Myers and Donald Rumsfeld about the wargames on 9/11.among other things.any politician that is willing to go on Alex Jones and speak honestly about politics and government deserves some respect.

Ruppert should stick to

Ruppert should stick to exposing the CIA. he was a lot less annoying when he did that.


McKinney rocks.


Opening Remarks

Rep. CYNTHIA McKINNEY: Last year, we got the final report, an extensive, prosaically impressive report, but as some of us sat down to read it, the errors and omissions immediately jumped out at us. How was it that it took over an hour after the first transponder went off before planes were scrambled to meet the threat, all of them too late? What happened to those reports that surfaced within months of September 11th stating that seven or more of the alleged hijackers had come forward and claimed they were victims of stolen identities and were alive and well, living in Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and Tunisia? Why did the Commission choose not even to address this? What about Osama bin Laden and his role in the Mujahedin backed by the CIA in the 1980s to fight the Soviets? The Commission didnÂ’t go there Â….. We cannot afford to shy away from inconvenient truths. Many of you may find what you hear today to be inconvenient information. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but times of challenge and controversy. I encourage you to engage with the issues that are raised. If you donÂ’t agree or donÂ’t like what you hear, challenge it. I believe that we should take in what every reasonable person has to say, to inform our decisions, because that is the best way to find the truth. In our pursuit of the truth, I encourage you to emulate the courage and the determination of the September 11th families in their struggle to know what really happened.


You can smear her all you want. We know the good work that she has done.

The Rebuking and Scorning of Cythia McKinney


hell yeah Rep, sometimes

hell yeah Rep, sometimes even people in the movement fall for the media smears......

Representative Cynthia

Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On Dyncorp Sex Rings, Missing Pentagon Trillions & 9/11 Wargames

C-Span | March 24 2005

Rumseld and Myers forced to shuffle uncomfortably and fumble for words as McKinney gets in their face about three issues seldom mentioned in official circles.

From a reader: Here is a Video of Representative Cynthia McKinney's Exchange on the House Hearing on FY06 Dept. of DefenseBudget, March 11th, 2005.

Watch how McKinney asks questions about Dyncorp slave rings, the 3 trillion missing from the pentagon and the 911 wargames.

Notice the faces Rumsfeld, Myers, Jones, Hunter and others make!!

I've been able to avoid much

I've been able to avoid much exposure to active television devices lately. I'll post these links of some of Congresswoman McKinney's efforts on behalf of 9/11 truth, and leave it at that.

2004 The Citizens' Commission on 9-11, chaired by McKinney

Representative Cynthia McKinney grills Rumsfeld on the 9/11 wargames
February 16, 2005

Representative Cynthia McKinney asks Rumsfeld about the Missing Trillions, and Myers about the wargames
March 11th, 2005

[pics] The 9/11 Commission Report 1 Year Later: A Citizens' Response
Hosted by Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney

... and, for whatever it's worth:
McKinney and the Capitol police, prior to incident

Lay off of McKinney, that

Lay off of McKinney, that bxtch gots balls. Probably bigger then mine.

I do think there is a very

I do think there is a very nasty racist and sexist element to the Cynthia McKinney/Capitol HIll police issue. Its such a minor incident. This policeman certainly was not injured. Why did the TV news spend so much time on it except that the middle-aged white male news anchors enjoyed making this woman into a figure of fun.

That said, Ms. McKinney handled it all very, very badly; she and her lawyers effectively played along with the ridicule. There was no reason at all why she or her lawyers had to go on any TV shows.

oh, and Tancredo is an

oh, and Tancredo is an insane racist douchebag. isnt he the guy who advocated bombing mecca after the next terror attack?

you guys should post those

you guys should post those links in rawstory's comments on the mckinney topic here:

at least she didnt shoot a

at least she didnt shoot a guy in the face and then refuse to see police officers for 12 hours..

Poor, poor white men, always

Poor, poor white men, always victims of the vicious persecution of black racists. They have it almost as bad as the terribly victimized Christians who are forced to attend megachurches that broadcast their moneygrubbing swill on TV and pay no taxes.

Cynthia McKinney is an easy target because she's not a b.s. artist like most politicians, couching her opinions in meaningless cliches. I may not agree with her on everything either, but as a Southern white man, I just have to laugh at white complaints of racism aimed at a woman whose parents had to drink out of separate water fountains because they were viewed as somehow less than fully human.

Uh Chris, you don't deny

Uh Chris, you don't deny that a visible rightwing Representative speaking about 9/11 Truth would be good, right? I mentioned him because he just might be enough disillusioned about Bush. You'll note that McKinney has also been called insane more than a few times.

(In case anybody wants more Ruppert-bashing, right now at FTW homepage is a story promoting "unification", ie. allowing a first world country to be overrun by the third world.)

i like Ron Paul. i dont hop

i like Ron Paul. i dont hop on the media hate train when it comes to Mckinney though, thats way too gullible.tell me, did Ron Paul ask about the wargames? and what is your point in pointing out Mckinney has been called insane? almost everyone who questions the official story has been called insane at one time or another, it comes with the territory.(which might explain why Ron Paul hasnt questioned 9/11).

if you meant Tancredo when

if you meant Tancredo when talking about a visible rightwing Representative , your clearly dreaming. that guy has no integrity and no balls whatsoever. he wouldnt touch 9/11 truth with a 40 foot fence.

Yea because having black

Yea because having black parents gives you the right to be racist. Uh huh. Until this kind of attitude of "my parents were mean to their parents to I have to let them walk all over me" goes away racism among blacks will continue to go unnoticed.

I will acknowledge that I was not fully aware of how much she has done for the movement, so I will give her a break.

she claimed she was the

she claimed she was the victim of racism, im not sure where you get her being racist out of to expand on that? ive never once thought of her as racist, but maybe you can explain.......

"i dont hop on the media

"i dont hop on the media hate train when it comes to Mckinney though, thats way too gullible"

Me neither if that's wh

"and what is your point in pointing out Mckinney has been called insane?"

Tancredo is called insane... McKinney is called insane. Of these accusations, (a) neither (b) the first (c) the latter (d) both are true?

carn, i mean no disrespect,

carn, i mean no disrespect, but how long have you been "in the know" when it comes to 9/11 truth? i ask because most people "in the know" and in the movement know all about Cynthia Mckinney and her strides.a lot of the info we have now is because of her and her alone.