Chris - I have faith in Stone, hes friends with the Sheen family. I think that hes being hush about it because he is already being hounded by the press for bringing a political edge to his film.
Watch this space, he could well have an ace up his sleeve
Matthew Day (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:13pm.
i think its possible he will add the multiple explosions from the towers(will he address WTC7?),and some other more subtle stuff, but i dont have any faith its gonna be anywhere near as hard hitting as JFK. how could it be? it hasnt even been a decade yet, not even Oliver Stone has that kind of stones.
Chris (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:15pm.
Greengrass should be ashamed of himself. and by the looks of things, Oliver Stone should be as well.it looks like what he did for JFK, he wont be doing for 9/11.
Chris (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:10pm.
Thanks Jon - I sent a message to the baltimore sun higlighting the anomaly, and suggested they do a follow up article on Greengrass' research credentials.
Matthew Day (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:11pm.
Ernie Stuhl, the mayor of Shanksville: “I know of two people—I will not mention names—that heard a missile. They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards ... This one fellow’s served in Vietnam and he says he’s heard them, and he heard one that day.” He adds that based on what he has learned, F-16s were “very, very close.”
Shortly after 9/11, an unnamed New England flight controller ignores a ban on controllers speaking to the media, reportedly claiming “that an F-16 fighter closely pursued Flight 93 ... the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet.” He adds that the fighter pilot “must’ve seen the whole thing.” He reportedly learned this from speaking to controllers nearer to the crash.
"Later, the FBI will cordon off a three-mile wide area around the crash, as well as another area six to eight miles from the initial crash site."
Jon Gold (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:12pm.
PHOTOS___photography is a hobby of mine and I recently joined a webite for photographers and everday people to share their pictures. Well, I just got off that site and had to tell you that some new photos are on that were aparently just released by the military---photos taken down at ground zero days after the attack, I noticed the date on one photo as 9-14-01, I am not sure if they are all taken on that date. There are 20 photos in all from this one person that uploaded them to the site. They are high resolution so I think you can zoom in and really look for details. There are some pics of the Pentagon too! I am dying for someone to get back to me so I can find out how to get these pics to this site or to someone that can investigate them further.
Please let me if you can help.
I just downloaded all 20 pics on my computer and created a file but I am really bad with knowing how to shrea info on-line---i know, i know. In fact, if it weren't for this issue, I don't think I'd be blogging. This is all new! Help me. I don't know what you mean by link and I am scared to death to put my email address out here.....
you have to become a member--which is free and easy. once you are on you will have to search for photos using a the "tag" "911". there are several people that have a photo listed under that tag, including me. scroll the members until you see a guy with the name "sledgehead"???--something reall close to that anyway, HE is the one that has these photos on and his page also includes a little bit of info about the shots.
If you DON'T want to become a memeber, I can invite you and you can come straight to my page and go directly to his pics through "my favorites". I have to have an email address to invite you though.
Damn, that was easy! Thanks, i knew I was making it sooo much more difficult than it had to be. Sorry for being ignorant.
Hey, you will notice I made a remark to slag..?. I thanked him for sharing the pics.
Let me know what you guys think. You can make the pic large--return it to it's original size and that will help in searching for details in the images.
hey, check out a guy named "bigdoncarlos" he has some pics taken JUST AFTER the planes hit the WTC and you can see in some pics a little smoke coming from the bottom of the buildings AND there are 2 pics that are a close-up on a wheel from a plane. I hope that helps determine the type of plane it was. Who knows.
there are still more pics to look thru but it is 3am and i have two papers due tomorrow--(grad student-poli-sci) and my wireless signal is giving me trouble so you may not hear back from me until later tomorrow---that ios proabbly a relief to most of you! Either way I am happy to see that some pics are coming out now and we can review them for ourselves. Now, if we can just get some video of the plane (or whatever it was) going into the pentagon....hmmm. Yeah, I'm not sure that is going to happen!
of couse not, because there isn't any just as we knew all along. Grrr is right!
Okay, still not on my paper yet, was looking at other 911 tagged pics that showed the building being hit--one actually shows a plane pretty close-up. I really have to go now but I want to make sure that picture gets studied for sure. gotto go now---really
There are newly released pic, but still no clear photos that support the 'Official Story in any way. Check out the pics of the Flight 93 crash site - a few small trees knocked over - gimmeabreak!!.
Noticeably, there are LOTS of photos of smiling victims, to emotionally charge the jury at the (sham) trial.
We've only seen one set of images of the Pentagon impact. The images, which came from the government, refute the notion that it was a 757 AA 77 which hit the Pentagon.The government proper ignores them; those who carry out the govt's disinfo campaign will mention them, but only to get others to ignore them.
pockybot, what was also interesting is that they actually believe the official line on JFK. Even some skeptics on 9/11 don't believe that garbage, so the suntimes are really far gone and there is no helping them.
They probably believe the Easter Bunny is real and the Great Pumpkin.
james smith (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 7:41pm.
The funny thing is when they try and defame 9/11 truthers or any questioning of 9/11 they throw in 'UFOs', 'holocaust deniers' and 'Elvis'; as if ad homiem mental health attacks is going to give credence to their opinion.
Now here's the thing: Why don't they ever say 'Well I think we havent been told the whole truth, but I don't think these people have a clear argument for US complicity'.
Nope, they all say "OMG THERE IS NO COVERUP!" ...which is funny, as I can name about 50 prominent government officials who have said it was at the very least a coverup.
Now folks, I have come to the conclusion that the only way the 9/11 Truth movement is going to take off and not toil in relative obscurity; is for a giant mainstream bombshell to hit. Not some media bad boy celeb, not
conspiracy theory talk show guests,
not purely speculative online videos. But MSNBC front page news relating to SOMETHING that exposes a chunk of the 9/11 lie. top officials coming forward with new evidence, a "downing street" like memo, *SOMETHING*. Not just people coming on the alex Jones show, no officials on the front page of newspapers and mainstream media outlets everywhere. Anyone else agree? Or are we just content with online debates and posting videos in forums as "furthering the cause"?
Why the heck can't their be a nicely funded 9/11 documentary that comes to theatres? Imagine a 9/11 documentary with the budget of Fahrenheit, that was able to get hardcore proof and not just speculation?
pockybot (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 7:59pm.
"Now folks, I have come to the conclusion that the only way the 9/11 Truth movement is going to take off and not toil in relative obscurity; is for a giant mainstream bombshell to hit. Not some media bad boy celeb, not
conspiracy theory talk show guests,
not purely speculative online videos. But MSNBC front page news relating to SOMETHING that exposes a chunk of the 9/11 lie. top officials coming forward with new evidence, a "downing street" like memo, *SOMETHING*. Not just people coming on the alex Jones show, no officials on the front page of newspapers and mainstream media outlets everywhere. Anyone else agree? Or are we just content with online debates and posting videos in forums as "furthering the cause"?
Why the heck can't their be a nicely funded 9/11 documentary that comes to theatres? Imagine a 9/11 documentary with the budget of Fahrenheit, that was able to get hardcore proof and not just speculation?"
This is the key. You're absolutely right. Problem is, they're reclassifying everything that might connect a dot. What we need is a whistleblower who can't be dismissed. Maybe someday...
Stuart Provine (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 8:30pm.
Those walls of the Pentagon, how thick are they and what are they made of? Killtown has pictures of a plane crashing into a concrete wall and the plane disintegrates but that concrete wall looks about 3 or 4 foot thick whereas the Pentagon's outer wall looks maybe a foot thick.
These photos capture the conundrum that how could jet fuel and Boeing 757/767 planes cause total collapse at the WTC but so little damage at the Pentagon. How come that jet fuel didn't behave the same way we're told it behaved at the WTC? As Lionel said, the jet fuel at the WTC behaves like a magic substance, even going across hallways to change from local to express elevators, and spreading itself throughout the entire huge core of the buildings.
Stuff about flight 93, from the director of the film
___________________________________--
Greengrass says it's astonishing "how some crucial things about the story are just not known. I think if you took a poll of Americans today, a tremendous number of people would tell you they believe that the military actually shot down this airplane and covered it up. It's all over the Internet.
"Well, the military didn't, for the simple reason that the military didn't even know about Flight 93 until four minutes after it crashed and there wasn't a fighter plane within 100 miles.
"Well, the military didn't, for the simple reason that the military didn't even know about Flight 93 until four minutes after it crashed and there wasn't a fighter plane within 100 miles.
"George W. Bush spoke of the heroic actions of the passengers and crew aboard United Flight 93 over rural Pennsylvania on the morning of 9-11. However, NSA personnel on duty at the NSOC that morning have a very different perspective. Before Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania, NSA operations personnel clearly heard on the intercom system monitoring military and civilian communications that the "fighters are engaged" with the doomed United aircraft. NSOC personnel were then quickly dismissed from the tactical area of the NSOC where the intercom system was located leaving only a few senior personnel in place. NSA personnel are well aware that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld did not "misspeak" when, addressing U.S. troops in Baghdad during Christmas last year, said, "the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania." They believe the White House concocted the "passengers-bring-down-plane" story for propaganda value."
Jon Gold (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 10:28pm.
December 2, 2005 -- Cheney order to shoot down United Flight 93 confirmed again. Vice President Dick Cheney ordered two U.S. Air Force fighters to shoot down United flight 93 over Shanksville, Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001, according to an intelligence officer who was monitoring the flow of intelligence between the Pentagon and the White House that morning. After the target was identified as United flight 93, Cheney gave the order to engage the target and shoot it down. There have been previous reports that Cheney ordered the shoot down.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 10:51pm.
That quote from Greengrass about the military not knowing about Flight 93 until 4 minutes after it crashed - Gadzooks what an example of our media at work that he could tell a report something that idiotic and because the reporter has been so indolent and disinterested in the whole topic, the reporter doesn't pin him down and make him admit thats BS.
The official version has that plane making a big loop, doesn't it? For how long was it hijacked? Unless Greengrass's movie is only 4 minutes long, the idea that the military wasn't aware of that plane being hijacked is absurd. What, is the explanation that they were too busy with other things, like there aren't literally thousands of people involved in keeping track of airplanes on a daily basis, and especially big passenger planes?
I believe the "story" of flight 93 being shot down is just that, a story. I believe that some of the real passengers (about 20% from each flight are listed in the Social Security Death Index except flight 93 which is 13%) did board an airplane. I believe that guided missiles hit all U S Military targets on 9/11. I believe that flight 93 (as well as flight 175) landed in Cleveland with a U S Military escort (eye witness report) and was taxied and parked near NASA's Glenn Research Center with all passengers aboard. I believe that it was here that the U S Military killed the passengers and collected DNA evidence. Although official aviation records confirm that UA 93 and UA 175 did exist, they also indicate that the planes never crashed. Two of the 9/11 airliners were never 'deregistered' and remained on the 'active' flight list until Sept. 28. 2005, the classification officially changing only a month after two inquisitive flight researchers made repeated calls to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), inquiring about the strange irregularity. However, Flight 11 and 77, both were 'deregistered' and classified as 'destroyed' only months after 9/11 on Jan. 14, 2002. Someone should ask Ted Olson why he didn't report Barbara Olson's death to the Social Security Administration.
Jon, I wish you would explain why the news story about Flight 93 landing in Cleveland with a bomb on board & passengers taken to a secure area was, after 4.5 years, abruptly changed
Is it because we have a Flight 93 movie coming out, and this news piece was extremely incriminating to said movie??? Why do you not think this is important???
if you look at archive.org you will see the article was removed Oct. 10th, 2004 - over a year and a half ago. Suggesting it was changed a year and a half ago because of a movie coming out now is a bit of a stretch.
The story is interesting, but isn't confirmed elsewhere, and if used in any real arguement will simply be brushed off as being factually incorrect as their website states. Noone says it isn't interesting, just that there are better arguements to make - its not like anyone says it should be thrown out the window and never ever looked at again. Just that it isn't one of the stronger arguement points we have all together..
just my 2 cents.
anonymous2 (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:54pm.
I'm not "blindly" dismissing anything. I explained to you the why... When I talk to someone regarding 9/11, I always always always go with "the best" stuff. I spend too much time doing this stuff, and don't like to get caught up in endless discussions. I certainly don't like to present articles that have a retraction.
I am the LAST person to trust the mainstream media, and am COMPLETELY AWARE of how they no longer work for the people.
However, I'd like to see a second mention of this cleveland story. I'd like a better understanding or corroboration as to how it relates to 9/11.
If a story breaks tomorrow that says, "Flight 93 flight recorder tampered with" or something to that affect, you bet your ass I would go back to the Cleveland AP story, and say, well what about this?
However, right now, for me, it goes on the shelf.
It could also have been changed because Loose Change 2 talks about it. When was it changed?
Jon Gold (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:54pm.
The story is very clear & detailed about it having landed in Cleveland, with a bomb on board, & passangers taken to a secure area. Why/how was all this "error" written in the first place on 9/11, by a reputable news agency????? It just came about for now reason??? Come on now, let's be realistic, Jon.
OK, it was retracted 1.5 years ago, just when they would have been doing "research" for the Flight 93 movie. It sure contradicted the "official story" in a VERY BIG way, so OUT IT WENT!!!
It is not plausible that some f*cker was looking through the news stations' archives 3 years after 9/11, and decided that this key Flight 93 story was suddenly "erroneous."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Molecular Nano Weapons: Research in China and Talk in
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I recently left a phone call for you to give me a call. My inquiry was in regards to the attached article. When I try to reference this article now, it tells me that, "This story has been removed from WCPO.com. It was a preliminary AP story, and was factually incorrect." My question is, who notified you that this story was factually incorrect? Or, how did you learn of it being factually incorrect? Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jon Gold
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard
Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.
White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.
United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.
United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.
On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.
"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 12:21am.
Thanks again, Jon.
This whole Flight 93 movie extravaganza has me stressed out. The official website alone seems to have a higher budget than all of Loose Change 2 & the other truth videos combined. (IÂ’m going to need a barf bag in the theater to sit through this one.)
Why would you even go see it? I don't watch anything that promotes the official line because it makes me sick to my stomach. Everytime a poltician reference 9/11, it makes me sick to my stomach. There are a lot of things that make me sick to my stomach, therefore, I don't look for things to make me sick to my stomach. Today's world is enough.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 12:43am.
this movie is writeen and produced by the man who wrote "The Bourne Supremacy". He seems to have some relationship or interest in the clandestine services.
this movie has no stars. one of the actors playing the hijacker can't come to the opening because he's a citizen of Iraq (I thought they were are friends?).
this movie advertises mostly on the cable news shows.
this movie was created so that they could run the ad campaign. lots of little 30 second commercials validating the official theory.
this along with the Mooseowie trial has created a blanket with which they hope to extinquish the curiosity of the mis-informed public.
guys, this is carl rove 101.
put on your carl rove 3D reality glasses and everything starts to make sense.
they wanted chaos in Iraq so the war would go on forever.
they wanted false confessions from prisoners so they tortured people.
they know when the next 9/11 style attack is coming because they are the ones planning it - so why worry about the ports - the arabs aren't attacking us - its a false flage attack.
they probably killed the star football player because they needed a good news story that week. rove 101!
they have targeted journalists for execution.
they have staged fake beheadings to counter the abu graihib story.
rent "wag the dog" if you haven't seen it in awhile. it will blow your mind.
I'd buy tickets for something else, then sneak into 93's showing and hand out flyers or something. Then I would retreat to customer service with my stub and demand a refund. :+:
The Professional (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 1:08am.
Flight 175 was also diverted on 9/11. The records for the diversion (alleged hijacking) of UA 93 and UA 175 were removed from the BTS database sometime after November 2003. This was presumably done to disguise the fact that although, in the original database, there were records for the diversion of UA 93 and UA 175, there were none for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77. The reason why there were no records for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77 is that these flights did not exist.
i get the same feeling Jon. I was watching real time with bill maher and when they started talking making references to 9/11 (because they were discussing the iraq war) and each time they did..it made me feel queezy (sick) because they were so smart...yet so dumb (or evil)
The Zionist controlled MSM keep silent about 9/11 Truth because it is in their interest to do so; unless they decide to say something designed to mislead, confuse or deceive. An example of this is the movie Flight 93. This movie is not designed to stimulate your critical thinking, it is designed to stimulate your emotions.
Richards cites multiple instances of various other aberrant behaviors involving paranoia about 9/11, the use of prescription drugs under false pretenses, irrational fear of vaccinations, and anger at the fact that Richards was pregnant with girls. Richards also alleges that Sheen trolled the Web looking for sex partners while using his penis as his onscreen icon.
Loose Change also said that people were cleared out of the Cleveland airport by foot, i.e., they couldn't even take their cars. There was a mass of people ordered to just "Start walking" and I believe there were even photos and news footage. That event seems to have gone down the memory hole, too. For what reason would people be ordered to leave an airport on foot? What were they told and how? If they could take their cars, of course there would be a traffic jam and not everyone could get out at once but going on foot, you could be certain that the passengers would be at least a certain distance away from being able to see anything.
bill maher like amy goodman does not stray too far from the official narrative although he, like amy, do present alternate view of the rovian narrative.
A newswire like the AP or Reuters is a pretty common thing. I think it'd benefit you to check out some textbooks on journalism. They will explain that when wire bulletins are recalled, no one literally "calls" you. Instead, there's a retraction on the wire itself.
Most of the questions we receive about this story are centered on how a newsroom works.
As far as Rumsfeld's "slip of the tongue", don't assume these are all errors. Some are potential disinformation - he did it twice, mind you.
I still say the whole argument about 93 being shot down or crashing is an intended red herring to take the argument away from whether there is even a plane at Shanksville.
D. Douglas (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 3:51am.
- are you aware of the core statement of this article: that a mystery plane made an emergency landing there, covered up by the landing of Delta 1989?
- do you know that this core statement is supported by dozens of sources and that nobody has disproved one of these sources yet?
- do you know that the WCPO message "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland" is just one little element of the Cleveland Airport Mystery and not necessary for the core statement?
- do you know there was a Flight 93 observed by air traffic controllers over Maryland, heading for Washington, AFTER the Pennsylvania Crash?
Woody Box
Woody Box (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 3:58am.
Jon, you really got some great follow-up regarding that retracted Flight 93 report! (Of course it's not your fault, but I’m still not sure how/why a specific, detailed story like this is later deemed to be “erroneous.”)
"The images refute the notion that it was a 767 AA 11 which hit the 1st tower."
Negative.
I strongly suggest that AmandaReconwith be IP-banned without delay.
"I believe that guided missiles hit all U S Military targets on 9/11."
Bizarre.
"I believe that flight 93 (as well as flight 175) landed in Cleveland with a U S Military escort (eye witness report) and was taxied and parked near NASA's Glenn Research Center with all passengers aboard. I believe that it was here that the U S Military killed the passengers and collected DNA evidence."
Utterly preposterous.
To those wondering about THE SINGLE REPORT mentioning Flight 93 in Cleveland, it was an error that was corrected on 9/11 in a few minutes: it was Flight 1989. The erroneus article remained on the website -- another mistake.
(This is yet another bogus issue that Loose Change carelessly highlighted. Stop promoting that stupid film.)
"Although official aviation records confirm that UA 93 and UA 175 did exist, they also indicate that the planes never crashed."
"Someone should ask Ted Olson why he didn't report Barbara Olson's death to the Social Security Administration."
Ah yes, THE CONTENTS OF DATABASES DEFINE EXTERNAL REALITY!!! And if any one of you hard-core no-plane retards plans to harass Ted Olson regarding his late wife, get medicated instead.
I swear, I've had it with the no-planers. They're a monumental drag on the entire movement.
Ahhh do you see what the no-planers made me do? I forgot to thank Tonya: thanks for the pointers to great images -- see how little damage to the Verizon and USPO buildings next to WTC7!
- are you aware of the core statement of this article: that a mystery plane made an emergency landing there, covered up by the landing of Delta 1989?
- do you know that this core statement is supported by dozens of sources and that nobody has disproved one of these sources yet?
- do you know that the WCPO message "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland" is just one little element of the Cleveland Airport Mystery and not necessary for the core statement?
- do you know there was a Flight 93 observed by air traffic controllers over Maryland, heading for Washington, AFTER the Pennsylvania Crash?
Woody Box"
Do you know that shooting down Flight 93 is a lot less messy than taking however many people were on the plane, and murdering them in cold blood, and disposing of the bodies?
I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77.
But what do I know...
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 4:17am.
Inside Edition just had a story on Charlie Sheen, and they mentioned his views on 9/11 right after the allegations of child porn. see how that works out? bullshit.also, CNN and Wolf BLitzer just said they have a "video of Cynthia Mckinney going nuts" coming up on The Situation Room. stay tuned for more smearing.........
One comment to an earlier post:
"how could jet fuel and Boeing 757/767 planes cause total collapse at the WTC but so little damage at the Pentagon"
I strongly suspect there were bombs in WTC 1 and 2, but that is not a valid comparison: the towers were steel, the Pentagon was masonry. There was quite a bit of damage at the Pentagon too, in any case -- the roof collapsed on its own.
Thermite Identified As Culprit Of WTC Collapse
Evidence mounting that cause first identified on Alex Jones Show led to towers' implosion
Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | April 24 2006
A new branch of 9/11 research claims to have identified the cause of the collapse of the twin towers. The photographic and video evidence makes a very strong case for thermite being responsible for the unprecedented implosions of steel framed reinforced buildings on September 11.
This facet was first brought to light during a November 2005 appearance on The Alex Jones Show by Brigham Young University physicist Professor Steven Jones. Jones said that white phosphorous wasn't powerful enough to cause the implosion but that thermite was the likely culprit. Alex Jones's 2005 release Martial Law 9/11 Rise of the Police State highlighted the physical evidence that the towers and Building 7 were brought down with incendiary devices.
Brigham Young University physicist Professor Steven Jones told peers at a Utah meeting that, "while almost no fire, even one ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."
I don't think so. My friend at work who REFUSED to look at any of the evidence regarding 9/11 watched that movie. He did so because Opie & Anthony were talking about it.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 5:13am.
"I don't think so. My friend at work who REFUSED to look at any of the evidence regarding 9/11 watched that movie. He did so because Opie & Anthony were talking about it."
And now he thinks passengers were taken to an empty Nasa Research Building and that a missile hit the Pentagon.
Or were you there to correct that?
And what if you weren't?
reader (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 5:25am.
"While I don't agree with a lot of what they said in [Loose Change], the movie itself has gotten a lot of publicity."
Yes, I know that it's getting a lot of attention. That's what troubles me considering that it's full of bad info and unnecessary speculation.
Given the fact that we are approaching the end game or are already there, we need the Truth on our side -- the truth mind you, not conjecture mixed with pieces of disinformation.
Movies like Loose Change may get us a lot of gullible people -- people who were first duped by the official story and are now being duped by Loose Change and other bad resources. I don't think we really want a lot of such people, earnest as they may be, to spread their tainted version of of the real events of 9/11.
But it's good if something big is coming up, then none of this may matter. :)
regarding that fr pentagon site, i was just asking if anyone has seen it. I am not a no-planer by any stretch of the imagination. I'm still on the fence about CD to be 100% honest.
What I am trying to do, and maybe Jon and others might be willing to help me create a timeline/storyboard, is stray from the speculative things that loose change is full of and shoot more for direct testimonies, statements, evidence, without any assertions, assumptions, or accusations.
I'd like to create a film that just brings questions out, not one that attempts to answer the questions, just show that there are real questions.
Ralph Shoenman, of WBAI's 'Taking Aim' show, spoke at 2 NYC 9/11 Truth events this past weekend. Will you be putting MP3 audios of these lectures on your website for those who don't live in NYC or for those who do live her and just want to listen to them again ? (The two lectures were different. Usually when people lecture they have set speeches. Ralph Shoenman gave two different speeches.)
Ok Terrence. If you want to use my words against me, then use these words against me. Tell me why my theory is wrong.
"I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77."
Why am I crazy to think that Terrence?
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 6:28am.
Jon, can you answer this: will EVERY AMERICAN get to see this film???? Is it a big release??? If not, every American won't be moved---not if they don't know about it. So, I hope to God that it is widely released.
Loose Change: I would not have known about this truth movement if it weren't for me chancing upon their films. I live in Indiana. Until something hits mainstream media outlets, the midwest just doesn't hear about this stuff--unless you are lucky enough to chance upon it online. Like I have shared before, I was shocked, and pissed and truley disturbed,yes. However, no matter what your view of the Loose Change films are, it does help bring people to ask questions. I did not watch it and walk away with a solid theory. It raises serious questions. Instead, I spent the enitre night and next several days and everyday since looking for more info. It left me with questions. I don't care who you are, no one has all the info, knows all the answers. We all just want the truth. So I ask people to stop trying to cut others down if they don't agree on a theory or a part of a theory or whatever. Get over yourselves just a little. We are all passionate about this because we give a damn. We are all pissed that the gov. is lying to our country and the world and are using this lie to further their money hungry, power hungry agendas. We are all tired of being disreguarded by mainstream media.
I am cool with debating, but try to at least respect each other. We are all just trying to get to the truth.
"Jon, can you answer this: will EVERY AMERICAN get to see this film???? Is it a big release??? If not, every American won't be moved---not if they don't know about it. So, I hope to God that it is widely released."
I mispoke... every American that sees it.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 6:39am.
I agree Able. Actually I agree with EVERYTHING you said able. I'm out for the TRUTH behind 9/11, not contrived fantasy. Now I know dylan reads this blog, and what I have to say doesnt take away that as a big film fan I appreciate the editing and feel of the documentary; but also the tenacity to be a group of young kids doing this. That's awesome.
BUT Loose Change is dead wrong in MANY of its assertions. And unfortunately when the mainstream public that goes online thinks of 9/11 theory, they think of Loose Change. The documentary that has gotten peopel talking, but its as inaccurate as the official story.
Here's why:
There is no sufficient evidence to back up the pentagon theory. People who say 'oh look at the photos' fail to ALSO show you the tons of OTHER photos that back up the official story. Oh! but it was preplanted!
Im not saying planes couldnt or werent remote controlled, Im open to that.
But to say it was a missle? I just am not sure.
But plane swaps? Cell phones not working? Cell phones faked calls?
A fake Osama in the video?
I don't think so.
People like to 'sexy up' the truth,
try and make it more outlandish than it needs to be. People with their missle and hologram crap. Im sure the government loves that peopel are spreading this stuff. I wont use the word disinfo, just naivity.
How can we fight the official story when people are spreading equally outragous and false claims? The proof that some people high the government knew about it, and in some cases may have acted as coddlers/provoaturs in regards to the hijackers is there. There is so much evidence, yet its all getting washed away with this fantasy junk that the real truth is simply going to be buried. When faced with Illuminati pod missles and fake planes, or 19 boxcutter nutjobs from Afghanistan...I can see why most people would buy the official story.
Can we get some critical thinking?
pockybot (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 6:52am.
Basically the same retoric we are used from mainstream. Uninformed "journalists" who say we know the whole story and who did it ect..and everyone else believing different is a conspiracy nut.
road66 (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 6:54am.
Okay, i love the evil laugh ;) But, crap! Why can't a movie like this get Lion's Gate or whomever behind it like they did for Moore's controversial film? If you don't live in a progressive area then you are left out of the loop. Ahhhhh!
Well, at least it has a big name in it and that will get attention. THEN, maybe other artsy theatres here and there around the country will ask for it. Hmmmm.
Good news in Wisconsin, Wisconsin public Radio is going to interview Morgan Reynolds on May 1st, and 1670 AM WTDY is going to interview him April 29 at 11:00PM
"I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77."
Why am I crazy to think that Terrence?"
I donÂ’t know Jon, IÂ’m not a psychiatrist, and unlike conspiracists, I donÂ’t pronounce on things I do not understand. (the conspiradroid brain for one) I believe that you honestly think that Cheney did these things and the tragedy of 9/11 was constructed by the neocons and other mysterious figures.
I also believe you are crazy to ignore the hundreds of real experts who have witnessed the evidence close up in favour or truth seekers who get their information from grainy videos and dubious uneducated sources. IÂ’m surprised that you have not let the fact that almost 5 years after this tragedy, not ONE single member of the evil cabal that you think perpetrated this disaster, their friends in the media who covered it up and the rest of the folks who would have been required for a conspiracy of this scale have talked. Not one.
Finally, I don’t think there is one thing anyone could say to you, or physical evidence that they could present that would be sufficient to ever change your mind. You are a “believer” in the religion of CD and will go to your grave claiming “the sheeple still don’t understand…”
I think the root of your problem is that you started from the desired conclusion -- US Govt complicity in the attacks -- and have then searched for facts to support your conclusion.
Terrence (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 7:21am.
Loose Change rocks!!! It is not the gospel but importantly it encourages the viewer to ask questions about what really happened on 9/11...
To me it's 9/11 in a nut shell, millions have viewed it and it's probably 100 times closer to what really happened on 9/11 versus the official joke theory.
Do you know exactly what happened ???
hmmmmm, I think I'll go and watch a quality 9/11 doc... yeah Loose Change 2nd edition will do nicely... thanks very much :)
Terrence, tell me one expert that has refuted Dick Cheney arriving at the PEOC by 9:10am. Tell me one expert that has refuted what Norman Mineta testified saying.
Here's a challenge for you. If you can find me two real experts, then I will leave and never return to the 9/11 Truth Movement.
Jon Gold (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 7:29am.
terrence: Finally, I donÂ’t think there is one thing anyone could say to you, or physical evidence that they could present that would be sufficient to ever change your mind.
ha. I'd entertain the notion of believing the official fairytale as soon as some real physical evidence presented itself - if you know of any you should post it for all to see.
James Ha (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 7:44am.
I concur that LC2 does more good than harm, although it is a bit too speculative. For example, my colleague viewed it and appeared to be convinced that the buildings were taken down in controlled demo after seeing it. Another colleague was critical, saying e.g. that the perps would not have risked someone taking a photo of another plane than 757 flying into the Pentagon. (However, as someone posted elsewhere, would anyone have had the time to take a picture anyway during the few seconds it took for whatever hit the building to fly past him/her?)
2. Hey I never said Loose Change sucked. I found it highly entertaining and well put together. I'm just saying it's specifics seem flawed, no matter how well I think the film is presented.
That plane swap story, geez.
pockybot (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 7:51am.
Terrence go look for treasure with Philip you brainwashed unclef*cker! I usually always respect the opinions of people who still believe the TOTAL CRAP of 19 magic hijackers and Goldstein from 1984 being solely behind the attacks. And that's largely because I also believed that most absurd of all conspiracy theories, and so I know exactly how holding that opinion feels. But that opinion is based on what was basically a mass hypnotizing, with no real facts or desire to critically look at the “explanation” provided. Only a minority thought that the attacks might have had more to them then OBL and his oh so impossibly lucky "19". Most people in countries that didn’t have a true free press, were shocked at the event, disorientated and confused, and then in the mists of all that mass confusion extremely susceptible to bullshit propaganda that would justify an already predetermined agenda;
"the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbour."
^ Written Sep 2000 by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and even Jeb Bush for crying out loud!!! And you feel the need to even attempt to ridicule those who find all this suspicious, and are actually trying to do something about it? That’s just utterly shameful, surely even if you think that all the evidence sited that contradicts the totally improvable crap of OBL and his “19”. Even if you think it’s all horseshit, you should still stand with us and call for a truly independent investigation, just to put all this to rest and prove that “you’re were right”. I suggest you take a step back from this imbecilic trolling, and read this with an open mind if you can even actually bring yourself to do that, that is;
pockybot, if you get this, i need to know where you got those Ministry lyrics to "Lies,Lies,Lies" with the lyrics about 9/11 and shit. that album isnt out yet is it? im not even sure what its called. its good to see ministry is back at it again though.
Vesa,
Re whether they would "risk" having something other than a 757 hit the Pentagon because eyewitnesses would come forward. The same thing would happen to those eyewitnesses as happened to William Rodriguez, the firefighters and numerous others who said they heard explosions in the building. They would be ignored.
chill with the attitude, you'd be surprised how many of us want to see all the evidence from everyside we can - so that we can make up our own opinions.
anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 10:54am.
S. King, were those WTC-7 photos & video taken immediately after the North Tower fell, or immediately after the thermite reactions began inside WTC-7. It's one or the other, you gov't shill!
P.S. Notice how "Terrence" disappears when challanged by Dem Bruce Lee Styles above. Terry will be back do some more hit-and-run later or tomorrow.
that doesn't look like the smoke from a "raging inferno", it looks more like a bunch of contrived smoke, like the smoke from the generator in front of the pentagon -
James Ha (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 2:09pm.
>>>chill with the attitude, you'd be surprised how many of us want to see all the evidence from everyside we can - so that we can make up our own opinions.
pockybot (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 3:20pm.
How can it be that there is not a single picture showing the south face of WTC 7 between the fall of the North Tower and the collapse of WTC 7? There's almost 7 hours separating the two.
Not much is said about it... It represents a fantastic gateway, much more so than building #7.
Building #6 was blown before #1 and #2 even came down. And it was blown from the inside out... meaning the explosion came from the basement and blew up and out, leaving a gapping hole in the ground with no signs of it collapsing inward.
They blew it early - a huge mistake... let's take advantage of it... if you mention #7, also mention #6.
Estanislao (not verified) on Mon, 05/01/2006 - 1:36am.
Chris - I have faith in
Chris - I have faith in Stone, hes friends with the Sheen family. I think that hes being hush about it because he is already being hounded by the press for bringing a political edge to his film.
Watch this space, he could well have an ace up his sleeve
Now you know some specifics
Now you know some specifics as to why some people think Flight 93 was shot down.
i think its possible he will
i think its possible he will add the multiple explosions from the towers(will he address WTC7?),and some other more subtle stuff, but i dont have any faith its gonna be anywhere near as hard hitting as JFK. how could it be? it hasnt even been a decade yet, not even Oliver Stone has that kind of stones.
Greengrass should be ashamed
Greengrass should be ashamed of himself. and by the looks of things, Oliver Stone should be as well.it looks like what he did for JFK, he wont be doing for 9/11.
Thanks Jon - I sent a
Thanks Jon - I sent a message to the baltimore sun higlighting the anomaly, and suggested they do a follow up article on Greengrass' research credentials.
http://www.cooperativeresearc
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=Flight+9...
Ernie Stuhl, the mayor of Shanksville: “I know of two people—I will not mention names—that heard a missile. They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards ... This one fellow’s served in Vietnam and he says he’s heard them, and he heard one that day.” He adds that based on what he has learned, F-16s were “very, very close.”
Shortly after 9/11, an unnamed New England flight controller ignores a ban on controllers speaking to the media, reportedly claiming “that an F-16 fighter closely pursued Flight 93 ... the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet.” He adds that the fighter pilot “must’ve seen the whole thing.” He reportedly learned this from speaking to controllers nearer to the crash.
"Later, the FBI will cordon off a three-mile wide area around the crash, as well as another area six to eight miles from the initial crash site."
PHOTOS___photography is a
PHOTOS___photography is a hobby of mine and I recently joined a webite for photographers and everday people to share their pictures. Well, I just got off that site and had to tell you that some new photos are on that were aparently just released by the military---photos taken down at ground zero days after the attack, I noticed the date on one photo as 9-14-01, I am not sure if they are all taken on that date. There are 20 photos in all from this one person that uploaded them to the site. They are high resolution so I think you can zoom in and really look for details. There are some pics of the Pentagon too! I am dying for someone to get back to me so I can find out how to get these pics to this site or to someone that can investigate them further.
Please let me if you can help.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt04
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0475276/
Looks like the administrators have been running overtime deleting posts on the Message Boards for United 93.
Got a link Tonya? I'd like
Got a link Tonya? I'd like to see those if their available.
they haven't deleted mine
they haven't deleted mine yet! (CB_Brooklyn)
Get on craigslist. I've
Get on craigslist. I've been on the San Diego one lately. Everyone should be posting on their areas CL board.
I just downloaded all 20
I just downloaded all 20 pics on my computer and created a file but I am really bad with knowing how to shrea info on-line---i know, i know. In fact, if it weren't for this issue, I don't think I'd be blogging. This is all new! Help me. I don't know what you mean by link and I am scared to death to put my email address out here.....
link=the website address of
link=the website address of where you found the pictures. :)
okay, I am
okay, I am stupid.
flickr.com
you have to become a member--which is free and easy. once you are on you will have to search for photos using a the "tag" "911". there are several people that have a photo listed under that tag, including me. scroll the members until you see a guy with the name "sledgehead"???--something reall close to that anyway, HE is the one that has these photos on and his page also includes a little bit of info about the shots.
If you DON'T want to become a memeber, I can invite you and you can come straight to my page and go directly to his pics through "my favorites". I have to have an email address to invite you though.
let me know
Thanks Tonya... here's a
Thanks Tonya... here's a direct link for anyone interested.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/slagheap/
Damn, that was easy! Thanks,
Damn, that was easy! Thanks, i knew I was making it sooo much more difficult than it had to be. Sorry for being ignorant.
Hey, you will notice I made a remark to slag..?. I thanked him for sharing the pics.
Let me know what you guys think. You can make the pic large--return it to it's original size and that will help in searching for details in the images.
you can only see the high
you can only see the high res version if your a member. So I re-hosted all the high res pics.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/214/1321139245b17bf600ab9hb.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2250/132113049eaa8c67aa0b7jv.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/218/132112993b17fcb4d1bb7gg.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4940/1321118258541014b99b4qy.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/641/13211173340407bf70fb1ky.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/580/1321116790c6ddf0230b3vc.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8101/1321057745e9173aec3b9gg.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4577/1321057251fd836d365b2qt.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4266/132105581a75a50d39ab0de.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1906/1321054941a2f206f89b7so.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/43/132105455e16f0a3883b8lt.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5415/132105410e13167d588b5xp.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/158/132105351b5f1331e89b3cf.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6430/132105299a0ba16d412b7rs.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/946/13210473081304d83afb4tk.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5122/132104399dea1ec49bab9xr.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1281/13210366885a8cc06f4b9eh.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1322/132103216fb5eb6607db2fi.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/9256/132102523e071662484b3cg.jpg
hey, check out a guy named
hey, check out a guy named "bigdoncarlos" he has some pics taken JUST AFTER the planes hit the WTC and you can see in some pics a little smoke coming from the bottom of the buildings AND there are 2 pics that are a close-up on a wheel from a plane. I hope that helps determine the type of plane it was. Who knows.
there are still more pics to look thru but it is 3am and i have two papers due tomorrow--(grad student-poli-sci) and my wireless signal is giving me trouble so you may not hear back from me until later tomorrow---that ios proabbly a relief to most of you! Either way I am happy to see that some pics are coming out now and we can review them for ourselves. Now, if we can just get some video of the plane (or whatever it was) going into the pentagon....hmmm. Yeah, I'm not sure that is going to happen!
I ended the debate at the
I ended the debate at the historychannel boards quite easily.
Thanks so much Tonya! Good
Thanks so much Tonya! Good luck on your papers!! And thanks Ian and truther.
......
I don't see any significant damage to the building facades either side of Seven. Grrr...
of couse not, because there
of couse not, because there isn't any just as we knew all along. Grrr is right!
Okay, still not on my paper yet, was looking at other 911 tagged pics that showed the building being hit--one actually shows a plane pretty close-up. I really have to go now but I want to make sure that picture gets studied for sure. gotto go now---really
http://www.flickr.com/photo_z
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=131043146&context=photostream&si...
bigdoncarlos on
bigdoncarlos on flickr
Thanks for the pics Tonya. They're some of the highest quality I've seen of those photos.
The pics are being released
The pics are being released as they have been used in the ongoing Moussaoui trial.
They have been made available at the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press website here: http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/index.php
There are newly released pic, but still no clear photos that support the 'Official Story in any way. Check out the pics of the Flight 93 crash site - a few small trees knocked over - gimmeabreak!!.
Noticeably, there are LOTS of photos of smiling victims, to emotionally charge the jury at the (sham) trial.
i just another contact on
i just another contact on the Flickr website---a person that is researching for Scholars for 911. --
also, just be warned, there are some pics that very well could have been altered in photoshop by someone deceptive.
We've only seen one set of
We've only seen one set of images of the 1st WTC impact. The images refute the notion that it was a 767 AA 11 which hit the 1st tower. (Even, but especially, when certain people leave out the one most revealing frame.)
We've only seen one set of images of the Pentagon impact. The images, which came from the government, refute the notion that it was a 757 AA 77 which hit the Pentagon. The government proper ignores them; those who carry out the govt's disinfo campaign will mention them, but only to get others to ignore them.
______________________________________ http://911u.org/CoDR/graphics/2heads,sameMonster.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Researchers...
go here and edit page after instant create acct. Add your save or delete commment
Qikipedia 911 page up for
Qikipedia 911 page up for deletion
More total fucking ignorance
More total fucking ignorance on the 9/11 truth movement:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/steinberg/cst-nws-stein23.html
I love how they equate 9/11 truth with Holocaust deniers.
pockybot, what was also
pockybot, what was also interesting is that they actually believe the official line on JFK. Even some skeptics on 9/11 don't believe that garbage, so the suntimes are really far gone and there is no helping them.
They probably believe the Easter Bunny is real and the Great Pumpkin.
The funny thing is when they
The funny thing is when they try and defame 9/11 truthers or any questioning of 9/11 they throw in 'UFOs', 'holocaust deniers' and 'Elvis'; as if ad homiem mental health attacks is going to give credence to their opinion.
Now here's the thing: Why don't they ever say 'Well I think we havent been told the whole truth, but I don't think these people have a clear argument for US complicity'.
Nope, they all say "OMG THERE IS NO COVERUP!" ...which is funny, as I can name about 50 prominent government officials who have said it was at the very least a coverup.
Now folks, I have come to the conclusion that the only way the 9/11 Truth movement is going to take off and not toil in relative obscurity; is for a giant mainstream bombshell to hit. Not some media bad boy celeb, not
conspiracy theory talk show guests,
not purely speculative online videos. But MSNBC front page news relating to SOMETHING that exposes a chunk of the 9/11 lie. top officials coming forward with new evidence, a "downing street" like memo, *SOMETHING*. Not just people coming on the alex Jones show, no officials on the front page of newspapers and mainstream media outlets everywhere. Anyone else agree? Or are we just content with online debates and posting videos in forums as "furthering the cause"?
Why the heck can't their be a nicely funded 9/11 documentary that comes to theatres? Imagine a 9/11 documentary with the budget of Fahrenheit, that was able to get hardcore proof and not just speculation?
"Now folks, I have come to
"Now folks, I have come to the conclusion that the only way the 9/11 Truth movement is going to take off and not toil in relative obscurity; is for a giant mainstream bombshell to hit. Not some media bad boy celeb, not
conspiracy theory talk show guests,
not purely speculative online videos. But MSNBC front page news relating to SOMETHING that exposes a chunk of the 9/11 lie. top officials coming forward with new evidence, a "downing street" like memo, *SOMETHING*. Not just people coming on the alex Jones show, no officials on the front page of newspapers and mainstream media outlets everywhere. Anyone else agree? Or are we just content with online debates and posting videos in forums as "furthering the cause"?
Why the heck can't their be a nicely funded 9/11 documentary that comes to theatres? Imagine a 9/11 documentary with the budget of Fahrenheit, that was able to get hardcore proof and not just speculation?"
This is the key. You're absolutely right. Problem is, they're reclassifying everything that might connect a dot. What we need is a whistleblower who can't be dismissed. Maybe someday...
In his open letter to Eagar,
In his open letter to Eagar, Bollyn includes a picture of what is apparently molten metal flowing from the South Tower before just its collapse:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?noframes;read=87929
Does anyone know where that picture is from? Bollyn doesn't provide a reference.
I know this video, but in which the flowing substance doesn't look quite as thick:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863&q=camerapla...
Any relevant links would be greatly appreciated. I'd also appreciate your comments on the substance seen on the pics and video.
when all else fails, just
when all else fails, just call us anti-semites.that seems to be the tact nowadays.
911blimp, why do you
911blimp,
why do you continue to assert that there is only one video of the first impact? there are 2, one by the naudet brothers, and one by 'hlava'.
http://www.terrorize.dk/911/#wtc.1.hit
science, not faith is our
science, not faith is our salvation at this juncture.
Just posted a comment on
Just posted a comment on www.imdb.com
We'll see if the moderators zap it before it can be read by inquisitive eyes.
Freedom of speech ... only when it supports the official version of things!
Great photos. This one of
Great photos. This one of the Pentagon is interesting:
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1322/132103216fb5eb6607db2fi.jpg
Those walls of the Pentagon, how thick are they and what are they made of? Killtown has pictures of a plane crashing into a concrete wall and the plane disintegrates but that concrete wall looks about 3 or 4 foot thick whereas the Pentagon's outer wall looks maybe a foot thick.
These photos capture the conundrum that how could jet fuel and Boeing 757/767 planes cause total collapse at the WTC but so little damage at the Pentagon. How come that jet fuel didn't behave the same way we're told it behaved at the WTC? As Lionel said, the jet fuel at the WTC behaves like a magic substance, even going across hallways to change from local to express elevators, and spreading itself throughout the entire huge core of the buildings.
Stuff about flight 93, from
Stuff about flight 93, from the director of the film
___________________________________--
Greengrass says it's astonishing "how some crucial things about the story are just not known. I think if you took a poll of Americans today, a tremendous number of people would tell you they believe that the military actually shot down this airplane and covered it up. It's all over the Internet.
"Well, the military didn't, for the simple reason that the military didn't even know about Flight 93 until four minutes after it crashed and there wasn't a fighter plane within 100 miles.
___________________________________--
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/movies/bal-to.united24apr24,0,...
"Well, the military didn't,
"Well, the military didn't, for the simple reason that the military didn't even know about Flight 93 until four minutes after it crashed and there wasn't a fighter plane within 100 miles.
"George W. Bush spoke of the heroic actions of the passengers and crew aboard United Flight 93 over rural Pennsylvania on the morning of 9-11. However, NSA personnel on duty at the NSOC that morning have a very different perspective. Before Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania, NSA operations personnel clearly heard on the intercom system monitoring military and civilian communications that the "fighters are engaged" with the doomed United aircraft. NSOC personnel were then quickly dismissed from the tactical area of the NSOC where the intercom system was located leaving only a few senior personnel in place. NSA personnel are well aware that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld did not "misspeak" when, addressing U.S. troops in Baghdad during Christmas last year, said, "the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania." They believe the White House concocted the "passengers-bring-down-plane" story for propaganda value."
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/fo
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1425
I'm looking forward to this
I'm looking forward to this board becoming operational.
http://www.universalpictures.com/forum/index.php?c=11
December 2, 2005 -- Cheney
December 2, 2005 -- Cheney order to shoot down United Flight 93 confirmed again. Vice President Dick Cheney ordered two U.S. Air Force fighters to shoot down United flight 93 over Shanksville, Pennsylvania on September 11, 2001, according to an intelligence officer who was monitoring the flow of intelligence between the Pentagon and the White House that morning. After the target was identified as United flight 93, Cheney gave the order to engage the target and shoot it down. There have been previous reports that Cheney ordered the shoot down.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/rumsfeld.flt93/
Rumsfeld referred to the "the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania."
Ask yourself... if he did mispeak... why would the phrase "shot down" be in his brain at all?
If the official story is completely true, that phrase shouldn't be anywhere in his brain at all when referring to 9/11... yet, it was.
That quote from Greengrass
That quote from Greengrass about the military not knowing about Flight 93 until 4 minutes after it crashed - Gadzooks what an example of our media at work that he could tell a report something that idiotic and because the reporter has been so indolent and disinterested in the whole topic, the reporter doesn't pin him down and make him admit thats BS.
The official version has that plane making a big loop, doesn't it? For how long was it hijacked? Unless Greengrass's movie is only 4 minutes long, the idea that the military wasn't aware of that plane being hijacked is absurd. What, is the explanation that they were too busy with other things, like there aren't literally thousands of people involved in keeping track of airplanes on a daily basis, and especially big passenger planes?
I believe the "story" of
I believe the "story" of flight 93 being shot down is just that, a story. I believe that some of the real passengers (about 20% from each flight are listed in the Social Security Death Index except flight 93 which is 13%) did board an airplane. I believe that guided missiles hit all U S Military targets on 9/11. I believe that flight 93 (as well as flight 175) landed in Cleveland with a U S Military escort (eye witness report) and was taxied and parked near NASA's Glenn Research Center with all passengers aboard. I believe that it was here that the U S Military killed the passengers and collected DNA evidence. Although official aviation records confirm that UA 93 and UA 175 did exist, they also indicate that the planes never crashed. Two of the 9/11 airliners were never 'deregistered' and remained on the 'active' flight list until Sept. 28. 2005, the classification officially changing only a month after two inquisitive flight researchers made repeated calls to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), inquiring about the strange irregularity. However, Flight 11 and 77, both were 'deregistered' and classified as 'destroyed' only months after 9/11 on Jan. 14, 2002. Someone should ask Ted Olson why he didn't report Barbara Olson's death to the Social Security Administration.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/
http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20021109040132/http://wcpo.com/specials/2001/...
http://team8plus.org/comment.php?comment.news.31
http://911review.org/brad.com/Woodybox/Plane_Swap_Over_Pennsylvania_Flig...
"When the legend becomes the fact, print the legend." - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
Jon, I wish you would
Jon, I wish you would explain why the news story about Flight 93 landing in Cleveland with a bomb on board & passengers taken to a secure area was, after 4.5 years, abruptly changed
from this: http://web.archive.org/web/20021109040132/http://wcpo.com/specials/2001/...
to this: http://wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html
Is it because we have a Flight 93 movie coming out, and this news piece was extremely incriminating to said movie??? Why do you not think this is important???
"I believe that guided
"I believe that guided missiles hit all U S Military targets on 9/11."
I don't.
Anonymous, if you look at
Anonymous,
if you look at archive.org you will see the article was removed Oct. 10th, 2004 - over a year and a half ago. Suggesting it was changed a year and a half ago because of a movie coming out now is a bit of a stretch.
The story is interesting, but isn't confirmed elsewhere, and if used in any real arguement will simply be brushed off as being factually incorrect as their website states. Noone says it isn't interesting, just that there are better arguements to make - its not like anyone says it should be thrown out the window and never ever looked at again. Just that it isn't one of the stronger arguement points we have all together..
just my 2 cents.
I'm not "blindly" dismissing
I'm not "blindly" dismissing anything. I explained to you the why... When I talk to someone regarding 9/11, I always always always go with "the best" stuff. I spend too much time doing this stuff, and don't like to get caught up in endless discussions. I certainly don't like to present articles that have a retraction.
I am the LAST person to trust the mainstream media, and am COMPLETELY AWARE of how they no longer work for the people.
However, I'd like to see a second mention of this cleveland story. I'd like a better understanding or corroboration as to how it relates to 9/11.
If a story breaks tomorrow that says, "Flight 93 flight recorder tampered with" or something to that affect, you bet your ass I would go back to the Cleveland AP story, and say, well what about this?
However, right now, for me, it goes on the shelf.
It could also have been changed because Loose Change 2 talks about it. When was it changed?
"if you look at archive.org
"if you look at archive.org you will see the article was removed Oct. 10th, 2004 - over a year and a half ago."
Okay, who/why decide to retract this article, 1.5 years ago, & 3 years after 9/11??? This is all extremely suspecious to me.
"This is all extremely
"This is all extremely suspecious to me."
Retractions happen all of the time...
See?
See? ;)
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/04/san-francisco-chronicle-issues.html
The story is very clear &
The story is very clear & detailed about it having landed in Cleveland, with a bomb on board, & passangers taken to a secure area. Why/how was all this "error" written in the first place on 9/11, by a reputable news agency????? It just came about for now reason??? Come on now, let's be realistic, Jon.
OK, it was retracted 1.5 years ago, just when they would have been doing "research" for the Flight 93 movie. It sure contradicted the "official story" in a VERY BIG way, so OUT IT WENT!!!
What you should do, is call
What you should do, is call them and ask why.
WCPO-TV
main number:
513-721-9900
WCPO news department:
513-852-4071
You're kidding right? (Do
You're kidding right? (Do not play games with me.)
You're worrying me on this
You're worrying me on this one, Gold.
"You're worrying me on this
"You're worrying me on this one, Gold."
I just left a message for Liz Foreman, Site Director, to give me a call.
It is not plausible that
It is not plausible that some f*cker was looking through the news stations' archives 3 years after 9/11, and decided that this key Flight 93 story was suddenly "erroneous."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Incidentally, if you're
Incidentally, if you're "worried" about me... I'm "worried" about you "worrying" about me. C'mon now... I've been around how long?
Thank you, Jon.
Thank you, Jon.
"Standard aluminum covers
"Standard aluminum covers just one-tenth of one percent of the surface area (with atoms), versus fifty percent for nanoaluminum."
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/01/wo/wo_gartner012105.asp?p=1
The Center for NanoEnergetics Research is an Army
funded center created in the spring of 2001 and exists
at four university sites, with the University of
Minnesota as the lead institution.
http://www.me.umn.edu/~mrz/CNER.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/nanotech/nano_exchange_safety.html
...Very little is known about the safety risks
presented by engineered nanomaterials. From currently
available information, the prevalent safety risks are
most likely to involve catalytic effects or fire and
explosion hazards....
"....Although insufficient information exists to
predict the fire and explosion risk associated with
nanoscale powders, nanoscale combustible material
could present a higher risk than a similar quantity of
coarser material......The greater activity of
nanoscale materials forms a basis for research into
nanoenergetics. For instance, nanoscale Al/MoO3
thermites ignite more than 300 times faster than
corresponding micrometer-scale material...
http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2005/11/28/story1.html
November 25, 2005
A Texas company that has developed a powerful
alternative to conventional lead-based munitions says
it will commercialize and market its explosive
compound through a spin-off company it plans to
establish in New Mexico.
During a recent visit here, executives from
Nanoenergetics Inc. said New Mexico's research and
testing assets, economic incentives, growing private
investment scene and accessible political leaders make
it an ideal place to establish their new startup.
Nanoenergetics is being spun off from Austin-based
Nanotechnologies Inc....
http://www.nanoscale.com/
NANOTECHNOLOGIES, Inc., the leading manufacturer of
high performance nanoparticles, is now introducing its
Reactor Technology and Advanced Nanoparticle Darrin
Willauer - Vice President, Engineering project
engineer with Dowell Schlumberger,
http://www.cnanotech.com/pages/resources_and_news/press_release_archive/...
Houston, Texas, January 24, 2002 �
Carbon Nanotechnologies, Inc. (CNI) said today that it
has stepped up efforts to develop applications
utilizing single-wall carbon nanotubes for defense and
national security purposes. CNI has engaged the
noted consulting firm of Technology Strategies &
Alliances (TSA), headquartered in Burke, Virginia,
near Washington, D. C., to assist in the strategic
market development of national defense directed
products. The company believes that an accelerated
research effort will bring new and significantly
improved products to market that can enhance national
defense.
The U.S. Department of Defense, the Navy, Air
Force,Army, and NASA have been involved for some time
in extensive research using single-wall carbon
nanotubes or, "Buckytubes", said Bob G. Gower,
President of CNI.
"We believe that Buckytubes can significantly
enhance the ability of defense products to shield,
absorb, or otherwise modify electro-magnetic signals,
key needs in many mission-critical areas...
Molecular Nano Weapons: Research in China and Talk in
the West
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/27/101732.shtml
I just emailed her as
I just emailed her as well...
eforeman@wcpo.com
Dear Ms. Foreman,
I recently left a phone call for you to give me a call. My inquiry was in regards to the attached article. When I try to reference this article now, it tells me that, "This story has been removed from WCPO.com. It was a preliminary AP story, and was factually incorrect." My question is, who notified you that this story was factually incorrect? Or, how did you learn of it being factually incorrect? Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jon Gold
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard
Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.
White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.
United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.
United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.
On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.
"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said.
Most of them are too dumb to
Most of them are too dumb to even realize 911 was an inside job.
http://www.rense.com/general70/foolwimp.htm
Some people have complained to me that I should not criticize people in the 9-11 movement.
http://www.erichufschmid.net/InvestigateTheTruthSeekers.htm
I think AmandaReconwith is
I think AmandaReconwith is implying that you should investigate me. Ok. Go ahead.
Start here...
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7970
Thanks again, Jon. This
Thanks again, Jon.
This whole Flight 93 movie extravaganza has me stressed out. The official website alone seems to have a higher budget than all of Loose Change 2 & the other truth videos combined. (IÂ’m going to need a barf bag in the theater to sit through this one.)
Why would you even go see
Why would you even go see it? I don't watch anything that promotes the official line because it makes me sick to my stomach. Everytime a poltician reference 9/11, it makes me sick to my stomach. There are a lot of things that make me sick to my stomach, therefore, I don't look for things to make me sick to my stomach. Today's world is enough.
i'm repeating myself
i'm repeating myself but:
this movie is writeen and produced by the man who wrote "The Bourne Supremacy". He seems to have some relationship or interest in the clandestine services.
this movie has no stars. one of the actors playing the hijacker can't come to the opening because he's a citizen of Iraq (I thought they were are friends?).
this movie advertises mostly on the cable news shows.
this movie was created so that they could run the ad campaign. lots of little 30 second commercials validating the official theory.
this along with the Mooseowie trial has created a blanket with which they hope to extinquish the curiosity of the mis-informed public.
guys, this is carl rove 101.
put on your carl rove 3D reality glasses and everything starts to make sense.
they wanted chaos in Iraq so the war would go on forever.
they wanted false confessions from prisoners so they tortured people.
they know when the next 9/11 style attack is coming because they are the ones planning it - so why worry about the ports - the arabs aren't attacking us - its a false flage attack.
they probably killed the star football player because they needed a good news story that week. rove 101!
they have targeted journalists for execution.
they have staged fake beheadings to counter the abu graihib story.
rent "wag the dog" if you haven't seen it in awhile. it will blow your mind.
I'd buy tickets for
I'd buy tickets for something else, then sneak into 93's showing and hand out flyers or something. Then I would retreat to customer service with my stub and demand a refund. :+:
Flight 93 was diverted on
Flight 93 was diverted on 9/11. The U.S. Department of Transportation
Bureau of Statistics have since deleated this data from their records.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/bts/ua93diversion.htm
Flight 175 was also diverted
Flight 175 was also diverted on 9/11. The records for the diversion (alleged hijacking) of UA 93 and UA 175 were removed from the BTS database sometime after November 2003. This was presumably done to disguise the fact that although, in the original database, there were records for the diversion of UA 93 and UA 175, there were none for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77. The reason why there were no records for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77 is that these flights did not exist.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/bts/ua175summary.htm
i get the same feeling Jon.
i get the same feeling Jon. I was watching real time with bill maher and when they started talking making references to 9/11 (because they were discussing the iraq war) and each time they did..it made me feel queezy (sick) because they were so smart...yet so dumb (or evil)
The Zionist controlled MSM
The Zionist controlled MSM keep silent about 9/11 Truth because it is in their interest to do so; unless they decide to say something designed to mislead, confuse or deceive. An example of this is the movie Flight 93. This movie is not designed to stimulate your critical thinking, it is designed to stimulate your emotions.
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/soldier1.htm
There's a good discussion of
There's a good discussion of Bollyn's alleged thermite-cut column picture here.
Hey guys: Richards cites
Hey guys:
Richards cites multiple instances of various other aberrant behaviors involving paranoia about 9/11, the use of prescription drugs under false pretenses, irrational fear of vaccinations, and anger at the fact that Richards was pregnant with girls. Richards also alleges that Sheen trolled the Web looking for sex partners while using his penis as his onscreen icon.
http://www.tv.com/story/story.html&story_id=4234
Loose Change also said that
Loose Change also said that people were cleared out of the Cleveland airport by foot, i.e., they couldn't even take their cars. There was a mass of people ordered to just "Start walking" and I believe there were even photos and news footage. That event seems to have gone down the memory hole, too. For what reason would people be ordered to leave an airport on foot? What were they told and how? If they could take their cars, of course there would be a traffic jam and not everyone could get out at once but going on foot, you could be certain that the passengers would be at least a certain distance away from being able to see anything.
You can leave comments at
You can leave comments at the above article, get a login from here:
http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=www.tv.com
bill maher like amy goodman
bill maher like amy goodman does not stray too far from the official narrative although he, like amy, do present alternate view of the rovian narrative.
Jonathan, A newswire like
Jonathan,
A newswire like the AP or Reuters is a pretty common thing. I think it'd benefit you to check out some textbooks on journalism. They will explain that when wire bulletins are recalled, no one literally "calls" you. Instead, there's a retraction on the wire itself.
Most of the questions we receive about this story are centered on how a newsroom works.
http://blogs.scripps.com/wcpo/staff/2006/02/wcpocoms_flight_93_story.html
Liz
It is easy to become
It is easy to become paranoid about 9/11 when one knows the truth and gets slammed for revealing it.
People like Sheen's wife don't care about such things. They take the "ostrich" approach: bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine.
As far as Rumsfeld's "slip
As far as Rumsfeld's "slip of the tongue", don't assume these are all errors. Some are potential disinformation - he did it twice, mind you.
I still say the whole argument about 93 being shot down or crashing is an intended red herring to take the argument away from whether there is even a plane at Shanksville.
FrankV thanks for the link
FrankV thanks for the link to LibertyForum. Good thread.
Jon Gold, - do you know the
Jon Gold,
- do you know the Cleveland Airport Mystery?
- are you aware of the core statement of this article: that a mystery plane made an emergency landing there, covered up by the landing of Delta 1989?
- do you know that this core statement is supported by dozens of sources and that nobody has disproved one of these sources yet?
- do you know that the WCPO message "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland" is just one little element of the Cleveland Airport Mystery and not necessary for the core statement?
- do you know there was a Flight 93 observed by air traffic controllers over Maryland, heading for Washington, AFTER the Pennsylvania Crash?
Woody Box
Jon, you really got some
Jon, you really got some great follow-up regarding that retracted Flight 93 report! (Of course it's not your fault, but I’m still not sure how/why a specific, detailed story like this is later deemed to be “erroneous.”)
Terrific links in your reply from Liz, also. I donÂ’t have time to study it all right now, (IÂ’ll do so later) but this link looks particularly interesting at 1st glance: http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=323 .
Got to run now, but that's
Got to run now, but that's Woody Box of the link I just posted above.
My pleasure and purpose,
My pleasure and purpose, reprehensor.
911blimp, stop spreading
911blimp, stop spreading bullshit.
"The images refute the notion that it was a 767 AA 11 which hit the 1st tower."
Negative.
I strongly suggest that AmandaReconwith be IP-banned without delay.
"I believe that guided missiles hit all U S Military targets on 9/11."
Bizarre.
"I believe that flight 93 (as well as flight 175) landed in Cleveland with a U S Military escort (eye witness report) and was taxied and parked near NASA's Glenn Research Center with all passengers aboard. I believe that it was here that the U S Military killed the passengers and collected DNA evidence."
Utterly preposterous.
To those wondering about THE SINGLE REPORT mentioning Flight 93 in Cleveland, it was an error that was corrected on 9/11 in a few minutes: it was Flight 1989. The erroneus article remained on the website -- another mistake.
(This is yet another bogus issue that Loose Change carelessly highlighted. Stop promoting that stupid film.)
"Although official aviation records confirm that UA 93 and UA 175 did exist, they also indicate that the planes never crashed."
"Someone should ask Ted Olson why he didn't report Barbara Olson's death to the Social Security Administration."
Ah yes, THE CONTENTS OF DATABASES DEFINE EXTERNAL REALITY!!! And if any one of you hard-core no-plane retards plans to harass Ted Olson regarding his late wife, get medicated instead.
I swear, I've had it with the no-planers. They're a monumental drag on the entire movement.
Ahhh do you see what the
Ahhh do you see what the no-planers made me do? I forgot to thank Tonya: thanks for the pointers to great images -- see how little damage to the Verizon and USPO buildings next to WTC7!
"Jon Gold, - do you know the
"Jon Gold,
- do you know the Cleveland Airport Mystery?
- are you aware of the core statement of this article: that a mystery plane made an emergency landing there, covered up by the landing of Delta 1989?
- do you know that this core statement is supported by dozens of sources and that nobody has disproved one of these sources yet?
- do you know that the WCPO message "Flight 93 landed in Cleveland" is just one little element of the Cleveland Airport Mystery and not necessary for the core statement?
- do you know there was a Flight 93 observed by air traffic controllers over Maryland, heading for Washington, AFTER the Pennsylvania Crash?
Woody Box"
Do you know that shooting down Flight 93 is a lot less messy than taking however many people were on the plane, and murdering them in cold blood, and disposing of the bodies?
I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77.
But what do I know...
anyone see this
anyone see this site?
http://0911.site.voila.fr/index1.htm
Inside Edition just had a
Inside Edition just had a story on Charlie Sheen, and they mentioned his views on 9/11 right after the allegations of child porn. see how that works out? bullshit.also, CNN and Wolf BLitzer just said they have a "video of Cynthia Mckinney going nuts" coming up on The Situation Room. stay tuned for more smearing.........
0911.site.voila.fr/index1.htm
0911.site.voila.fr/index1.htm
Oh looky, another site in love with firefighting foam.
This page should end no-757-at-Pentagon disinformation:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html
Of course it won't, since so many people have invested so much mental capital in the no-757 theory.
One comment to an earlier post:
"how could jet fuel and Boeing 757/767 planes cause total collapse at the WTC but so little damage at the Pentagon"
I strongly suspect there were bombs in WTC 1 and 2, but that is not a valid comparison: the towers were steel, the Pentagon was masonry. There was quite a bit of damage at the Pentagon too, in any case -- the roof collapsed on its own.
Thermite Identified As
Thermite Identified As Culprit Of WTC Collapse
Evidence mounting that cause first identified on Alex Jones Show led to towers' implosion
Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | April 24 2006
A new branch of 9/11 research claims to have identified the cause of the collapse of the twin towers. The photographic and video evidence makes a very strong case for thermite being responsible for the unprecedented implosions of steel framed reinforced buildings on September 11.
This facet was first brought to light during a November 2005 appearance on The Alex Jones Show by Brigham Young University physicist Professor Steven Jones. Jones said that white phosphorous wasn't powerful enough to cause the implosion but that thermite was the likely culprit. Alex Jones's 2005 release Martial Law 9/11 Rise of the Police State highlighted the physical evidence that the towers and Building 7 were brought down with incendiary devices.
Brigham Young University physicist Professor Steven Jones told peers at a Utah meeting that, "while almost no fire, even one ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm
Just read the suntimes
Just read the suntimes piece... heyheyhey what do you know, Loose Change strikes again! That POS movie does more harm than good.
Still, the author of the hitpiece is a fuckwit.
"That POS movie does more
"That POS movie does more harm than good."
I don't think so. My friend at work who REFUSED to look at any of the evidence regarding 9/11 watched that movie. He did so because Opie & Anthony were talking about it.
While I don't agree with a
While I don't agree with a lot of what they said in the movie, the movie itself has gotten a lot of publicity.
Just wait until 9/11/2006. There's a movie coming out that will open EVERYONE'S eyes.
Opie and Anthony are now
Opie and Anthony are now back on my local rock station,which sucks, but i guess its better than david lee roth.
Jon, does it involve
Jon, does it involve Griffin?
I can't say a damn thing
I can't say a damn thing about it, but it will open up EVERYONE'S eyes.
I will say this... the movie
I will say this... the movie will touch every American.
it involves Griffin.
it involves Griffin.
Actually, I don't know if it
Actually, I don't know if it does.
"I don't think so. My friend
"I don't think so. My friend at work who REFUSED to look at any of the evidence regarding 9/11 watched that movie. He did so because Opie & Anthony were talking about it."
And now he thinks passengers were taken to an empty Nasa Research Building and that a missile hit the Pentagon.
Or were you there to correct that?
And what if you weren't?
Dude... I know there were
Dude... I know there were questionable things in it, however, I commend Dylan for making it, and I congratulate him for getting the publicity he did.
"While I don't agree with a
"While I don't agree with a lot of what they said in [Loose Change], the movie itself has gotten a lot of publicity."
Yes, I know that it's getting a lot of attention. That's what troubles me considering that it's full of bad info and unnecessary speculation.
Given the fact that we are approaching the end game or are already there, we need the Truth on our side -- the truth mind you, not conjecture mixed with pieces of disinformation.
Movies like Loose Change may get us a lot of gullible people -- people who were first duped by the official story and are now being duped by Loose Change and other bad resources. I don't think we really want a lot of such people, earnest as they may be, to spread their tainted version of of the real events of 9/11.
But it's good if something big is coming up, then none of this may matter. :)
"And now he thinks
"And now he thinks passengers were taken to an empty Nasa Research Building and that a missile hit the Pentagon."
And no, he doesn't.
regarding that fr pentagon
regarding that fr pentagon site, i was just asking if anyone has seen it. I am not a no-planer by any stretch of the imagination. I'm still on the fence about CD to be 100% honest.
What I am trying to do, and
What I am trying to do, and maybe Jon and others might be willing to help me create a timeline/storyboard, is stray from the speculative things that loose change is full of and shoot more for direct testimonies, statements, evidence, without any assertions, assumptions, or accusations.
I'd like to create a film that just brings questions out, not one that attempts to answer the questions, just show that there are real questions.
"But what do I
"But what do I know..."
...not much...
...not much... Precisely!
...not much...
Precisely! Which is why we seek a new investigation.
[song starts at 1:30 in]
http://www.freedomisforeverybody.org/M/911%20Was%20an%20Inside%20Job.mp3
Ralph Shoenman, of WBAI's
Ralph Shoenman, of WBAI's 'Taking Aim' show, spoke at 2 NYC 9/11 Truth events this past weekend. Will you be putting MP3 audios of these lectures on your website for those who don't live in NYC or for those who do live her and just want to listen to them again ? (The two lectures were different. Usually when people lecture they have set speeches. Ralph Shoenman gave two different speeches.)
"shoot more for direct
"shoot more for direct testimonies, statements, evidence, without any assertions, assumptions, or accusations."
September 11th, 2006.
"...not much..." Ok
"...not much..."
Ok Terrence. If you want to use my words against me, then use these words against me. Tell me why my theory is wrong.
"I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77."
Why am I crazy to think that Terrence?
Jon, can you answer this:
Jon, can you answer this: will EVERY AMERICAN get to see this film???? Is it a big release??? If not, every American won't be moved---not if they don't know about it. So, I hope to God that it is widely released.
Loose Change: I would not have known about this truth movement if it weren't for me chancing upon their films. I live in Indiana. Until something hits mainstream media outlets, the midwest just doesn't hear about this stuff--unless you are lucky enough to chance upon it online. Like I have shared before, I was shocked, and pissed and truley disturbed,yes. However, no matter what your view of the Loose Change films are, it does help bring people to ask questions. I did not watch it and walk away with a solid theory. It raises serious questions. Instead, I spent the enitre night and next several days and everyday since looking for more info. It left me with questions. I don't care who you are, no one has all the info, knows all the answers. We all just want the truth. So I ask people to stop trying to cut others down if they don't agree on a theory or a part of a theory or whatever. Get over yourselves just a little. We are all passionate about this because we give a damn. We are all pissed that the gov. is lying to our country and the world and are using this lie to further their money hungry, power hungry agendas. We are all tired of being disreguarded by mainstream media.
I am cool with debating, but try to at least respect each other. We are all just trying to get to the truth.
"Jon, can you answer this:
"Jon, can you answer this: will EVERY AMERICAN get to see this film???? Is it a big release??? If not, every American won't be moved---not if they don't know about it. So, I hope to God that it is widely released."
I mispoke... every American that sees it.
But I think, given who's in
But I think, given who's in it, that it will get A LOT of attention.
And that's ALL I will say. ;)
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (evil laugh)
I agree Able. Actually I
I agree Able. Actually I agree with EVERYTHING you said able. I'm out for the TRUTH behind 9/11, not contrived fantasy. Now I know dylan reads this blog, and what I have to say doesnt take away that as a big film fan I appreciate the editing and feel of the documentary; but also the tenacity to be a group of young kids doing this. That's awesome.
BUT Loose Change is dead wrong in MANY of its assertions. And unfortunately when the mainstream public that goes online thinks of 9/11 theory, they think of Loose Change. The documentary that has gotten peopel talking, but its as inaccurate as the official story.
Here's why:
There is no sufficient evidence to back up the pentagon theory. People who say 'oh look at the photos' fail to ALSO show you the tons of OTHER photos that back up the official story. Oh! but it was preplanted!
Im not saying planes couldnt or werent remote controlled, Im open to that.
But to say it was a missle? I just am not sure.
But plane swaps? Cell phones not working? Cell phones faked calls?
A fake Osama in the video?
I don't think so.
People like to 'sexy up' the truth,
try and make it more outlandish than it needs to be. People with their missle and hologram crap. Im sure the government loves that peopel are spreading this stuff. I wont use the word disinfo, just naivity.
How can we fight the official story when people are spreading equally outragous and false claims? The proof that some people high the government knew about it, and in some cases may have acted as coddlers/provoaturs in regards to the hijackers is there. There is so much evidence, yet its all getting washed away with this fantasy junk that the real truth is simply going to be buried. When faced with Illuminati pod missles and fake planes, or 19 boxcutter nutjobs from Afghanistan...I can see why most people would buy the official story.
Can we get some critical thinking?
Dutch article in mainstream
Dutch article in mainstream newspaper about 9-11.
http://www.vkmag.com/images/guerrilla/zapruder/VOK-20060422-03007002.pdf
http://www.vkmag.com/zapruder/comments/6826/
Basically the same retoric we are used from mainstream. Uninformed "journalists" who say we know the whole story and who did it ect..and everyone else believing different is a conspiracy nut.
Okay, i love the evil laugh
Okay, i love the evil laugh ;) But, crap! Why can't a movie like this get Lion's Gate or whomever behind it like they did for Moore's controversial film? If you don't live in a progressive area then you are left out of the loop. Ahhhhh!
Well, at least it has a big name in it and that will get attention. THEN, maybe other artsy theatres here and there around the country will ask for it. Hmmmm.
Thanks for the reply Jon!
Good news in Wisconsin,
Good news in Wisconsin, Wisconsin public Radio is going to interview Morgan Reynolds on May 1st, and 1670 AM WTDY is going to interview him April 29 at 11:00PM
Fresh user review added to
Fresh user review added to DRG's "Omissions and Distortions" book at Amazon, should anyone be in range to engage:
Don't waste your time with this book, April 23, 2006
It's sad that this book and others like it are so popular. I freely admit that I haven't read it, but
"I freely admit that I
"I freely admit that I haven't read it, but..."
I remember when Moore's movie came out, and there were a 1,000,000 people who hated it, but unfortunately, they didn't know why.
People who say 'oh look at
People who say 'oh look at the photos' fail to ALSO show you the tons of OTHER photos that back up the official story.
do tell pockybot...put up or shut up.
'oh look at the photos'
__________________
"I think Flight 93 was shot
"I think Flight 93 was shot down. I have shown you some of the reasons why I think that.
What I think happened is that Dick Cheney let 77 hit the Pentagon, and then ordered 93 taken out because allowing two commercial jets into P-56 would seem WAY TOO suspicious, let alone allowing just 77."
Why am I crazy to think that Terrence?"
I donÂ’t know Jon, IÂ’m not a psychiatrist, and unlike conspiracists, I donÂ’t pronounce on things I do not understand. (the conspiradroid brain for one) I believe that you honestly think that Cheney did these things and the tragedy of 9/11 was constructed by the neocons and other mysterious figures.
I also believe you are crazy to ignore the hundreds of real experts who have witnessed the evidence close up in favour or truth seekers who get their information from grainy videos and dubious uneducated sources. IÂ’m surprised that you have not let the fact that almost 5 years after this tragedy, not ONE single member of the evil cabal that you think perpetrated this disaster, their friends in the media who covered it up and the rest of the folks who would have been required for a conspiracy of this scale have talked. Not one.
Finally, I don’t think there is one thing anyone could say to you, or physical evidence that they could present that would be sufficient to ever change your mind. You are a “believer” in the religion of CD and will go to your grave claiming “the sheeple still don’t understand…”
I think the root of your problem is that you started from the desired conclusion -- US Govt complicity in the attacks -- and have then searched for facts to support your conclusion.
able, pockybot and
able, pockybot and reader...
Loose Change rocks!!! It is not the gospel but importantly it encourages the viewer to ask questions about what really happened on 9/11...
To me it's 9/11 in a nut shell, millions have viewed it and it's probably 100 times closer to what really happened on 9/11 versus the official joke theory.
Do you know exactly what happened ???
hmmmmm, I think I'll go and watch a quality 9/11 doc... yeah Loose Change 2nd edition will do nicely... thanks very much :)
p.s. You are welcome on my
p.s.
You are welcome on my blog anytime. You will find people there who will help you learn the skills required for you to become a critical thinker...
Terrence, tell me one expert
Terrence, tell me one expert that has refuted Dick Cheney arriving at the PEOC by 9:10am. Tell me one expert that has refuted what Norman Mineta testified saying.
Here's a challenge for you. If you can find me two real experts, then I will leave and never return to the 9/11 Truth Movement.
http://visibility911.libsyn.c
http://visibility911.libsyn.com/
New Wolsey show is up.
w00t! Michael Wolsey has
w00t! Michael Wolsey has his first guest on this week. Trevor Carey, a local Coloradan 9/11 activist.
Actually, Trevor has his own
Actually, Trevor has his own show apparently.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/a
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm
Thermite Identified As Culprit Of WTC Collapse
terrence: Finally, I
terrence: Finally, I donÂ’t think there is one thing anyone could say to you, or physical evidence that they could present that would be sufficient to ever change your mind.
ha. I'd entertain the notion of believing the official fairytale as soon as some real physical evidence presented itself - if you know of any you should post it for all to see.
I concur that LC2 does more
I concur that LC2 does more good than harm, although it is a bit too speculative. For example, my colleague viewed it and appeared to be convinced that the buildings were taken down in controlled demo after seeing it. Another colleague was critical, saying e.g. that the perps would not have risked someone taking a photo of another plane than 757 flying into the Pentagon. (However, as someone posted elsewhere, would anyone have had the time to take a picture anyway during the few seconds it took for whatever hit the building to fly past him/her?)
Hey Terrence! Tell me what
Hey Terrence! Tell me what Norman Mineta, the sec. of transportation meant on this short CPSAN video, in regards to Cheney allowing Flight 77 to hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=mineta
2. Hey I never said Loose Change sucked. I found it highly entertaining and well put together. I'm just saying it's specifics seem flawed, no matter how well I think the film is presented.
That plane swap story, geez.
Terrence go look for
Terrence go look for treasure with Philip you brainwashed unclef*cker! I usually always respect the opinions of people who still believe the TOTAL CRAP of 19 magic hijackers and Goldstein from 1984 being solely behind the attacks. And that's largely because I also believed that most absurd of all conspiracy theories, and so I know exactly how holding that opinion feels. But that opinion is based on what was basically a mass hypnotizing, with no real facts or desire to critically look at the “explanation” provided. Only a minority thought that the attacks might have had more to them then OBL and his oh so impossibly lucky "19". Most people in countries that didn’t have a true free press, were shocked at the event, disorientated and confused, and then in the mists of all that mass confusion extremely susceptible to bullshit propaganda that would justify an already predetermined agenda;
"the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbour."
^ Written Sep 2000 by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and even Jeb Bush for crying out loud!!! And you feel the need to even attempt to ridicule those who find all this suspicious, and are actually trying to do something about it? That’s just utterly shameful, surely even if you think that all the evidence sited that contradicts the totally improvable crap of OBL and his “19”. Even if you think it’s all horseshit, you should still stand with us and call for a truly independent investigation, just to put all this to rest and prove that “you’re were right”. I suggest you take a step back from this imbecilic trolling, and read this with an open mind if you can even actually bring yourself to do that, that is;
“Apocalypse of Coercion: Why We Listen to What “They” Say About 9/11”,
http://www.mujca.com/apocalypse.htm
Aren't there any pictures of
Aren't there any pictures of the south side of Seven before it collapsed? I've never come across a single one.
pockybot, if you get this, i
pockybot, if you get this, i need to know where you got those Ministry lyrics to "Lies,Lies,Lies" with the lyrics about 9/11 and shit. that album isnt out yet is it? im not even sure what its called. its good to see ministry is back at it again though.
Al Jorgenson always said he
Al Jorgenson always said he wrote better songs with a Bush in the White House.
"Aren't there any pictures
"Aren't there any pictures of the south side of Seven before it collapsed? I've never come across a single one"
http://www.wtc7.net/damageclaims.html
perhaps WTC7 was simply
perhaps WTC7 was simply overcome with grief at the loss of it's 2 companions.
Jon: re: 9/11/06 are you
Jon:
re: 9/11/06
are you referring to the DeNiro festival?
No.
No.
Anyone know when Russo's
Anyone know when Russo's Freedom to Facism will be released ?
Vesa, Re whether they would
Vesa,
Re whether they would "risk" having something other than a 757 hit the Pentagon because eyewitnesses would come forward. The same thing would happen to those eyewitnesses as happened to William Rodriguez, the firefighters and numerous others who said they heard explosions in the building. They would be ignored.
Vesa wrote, "Aren't there
Vesa wrote,
"Aren't there any pictures of the south side of Seven before it collapsed? I've never come across a single one."
Sure there is:
http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/WTC7_Smoke.jpg
and a video too:
http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi
Note that you won't find either photos or videos of the South side of WTC 7 on 9/11 conspiracy sites.
Even Anonymous above doesn't want anyone to see them.
S. King, chill with the
S. King,
chill with the attitude, you'd be surprised how many of us want to see all the evidence from everyside we can - so that we can make up our own opinions.
S. King, were those WTC-7
S. King, were those WTC-7 photos & video taken immediately after the North Tower fell, or immediately after the thermite reactions began inside WTC-7. It's one or the other, you gov't shill!
P.S. Notice how "Terrence" disappears when challanged by Dem Bruce Lee Styles above. Terry will be back do some more hit-and-run later or tomorrow.
pockybot--"But plane swaps?
pockybot--"But plane swaps? Cell phones not working? Cell phones faked calls?
A fake Osama in the video?
I don't think so."
You might not think so, but plenty of credible truthers DO think so! What makes you so sure?
http://www.911myths.com/asset
http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/ WTC7_Smoke.jpg
that doesn't look like the smoke from a "raging inferno", it looks more like a bunch of contrived smoke, like the smoke from the generator in front of the pentagon -
>>>chill with the attitude,
>>>chill with the attitude, you'd be surprised how many of us want to see all the evidence from everyside we can - so that we can make up our own opinions.
"You might not think so, but
"You might not think so, but plenty of credible truthers DO think so!"
Your definition of "credible" must be very elastic....You might not think so, but plenty of credible truthers DO think so!
"Terrence go look for
"Terrence go look for treasure with Philip you brainwashed unclef*cker!"
"P.S. Notice how "Terrence" disappears when challanged by Dem Bruce Lee Styles above."
For one, I have a life outside this board and simply ignore folks who say things that would get me banned if I said them.
Besides, methinks poor ol' Dem Bruce Lee Styles saw himself in my accurate description of Jon and got a little carried away with himself....
I meant a picture in which
I meant a picture in which the south face of WTC-7 can be *seen* unobstructed. All I have seen is the southwest corner picture on page
http://www.wtc7.net/damageclaims.html
How can it be that there is not a single picture showing the south face of WTC 7 between the fall of the North Tower and the collapse of WTC 7? There's almost 7 hours separating the two.
Yo The Decider, great song
Yo The Decider, great song isnÂ’t it, here's the direct mp3 link;
http://decider.cf.huffingtonpost.com/decider.mp3
^Spread this song ppl!!
I've been reading this blog
I've been reading this blog for a long time. It has helped me to persuade others of this crime.
We have got to encourage these guys. I've requested that they do a 9/11 piece.
http://www.travisandjonathan.com/RedStateUpdate
Building #6 Not much is said
Building #6
Not much is said about it... It represents a fantastic gateway, much more so than building #7.
Building #6 was blown before #1 and #2 even came down. And it was blown from the inside out... meaning the explosion came from the basement and blew up and out, leaving a gapping hole in the ground with no signs of it collapsing inward.
They blew it early - a huge mistake... let's take advantage of it... if you mention #7, also mention #6.