Mid Week Grab Bag

9/11 Research Flight 93 Flyers

Top 15 [Reasons] to boycott/leaflet "United 93"

The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic's View - Democratic Underground

This essay is certain to make many readers very angry with me. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Last month I was a guest on a progressive radio talk show. About half-way through the hour-long program, the conversation was going well, until I expressed some doubts about the 'controlled demolition' hypotheses of the collapse of the World Trade Center. That comment sealed the fate of the remainder of the hour, as it prompted an unvarying succession of angry rebuttals and a deluge of alleged 'facts' supporting the view that the WTC towers were brought down by pre-set demolition charges, and that the Pentagon was not struck by a Boeing 747. And so I felt obliged to take a closer look at the theories and evidence regarding the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

After many hours watching videos this weekend of long presentations by David Ray Griffin, Steven Jones and James Fetzer, several other videos both affirming and rejecting "the official version" (OV), and reading numerous articles, it appears to me that the OV of the destruction of the World Trade Center is not credible. Too many anomalies are not explained. A closer look at the conspiracy theories (CTs) indicates that these too can not be true. Too many improbable assumptions. Thus one must conclude that the 9/11 attack on the WTC never took place.

No wait, that’s absurd. Of course it took place! So what we are left with is an abundance of contrary claims, unconfirmable 'evidence' leading to utter confusion and no firm conclusions -- none, that is, regarding the World Trade Center attack. The Pentagon attack, however, should present little doubt: American Airlines Flight 77 struck the building.
What happened on 9/11? Who is responsible? The questions remain open even as they remain urgent. The American people deserve answers, and more immediately, competent and sustained investigation leading to these answers.

U.S. seeks to keep evidence from 9/11 families - CNN

U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema's April 7 order requires prosecutors to provide copies of all unclassified aviation security documents to attorneys representing September 11 families in a civil lawsuit pending in New York.

Prosecutors called the order "unprecedented" and urged Brinkema to withdraw it. The motion was filed by Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Brinkema's order would allow the families' attorneys access to "highly sensitive" law enforcement documents and could compromise the continuing investigation into the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The inquiry is "the largest criminal investigation in our nation's history, which is still ongoing," the motion says.
"It is amazing what some agencies think is secret," Brinkema said before issuing her order last month. "As a culture, we need to be careful not to be so wrapped up in secrecy that we lose track of our core values and laws."

Flashback: The Legend of United Flight 93 - 911truth.org

911 & The WTC South Tower - Karl Schwarz

Voice From the Fringe - Rutland Herald Editorials

You have NO EVIDENCE, none, zero evidence to support the gov'ts assertion that the plane he piloted hit the Pentagon. But the military does have clear evidence re what hit the building. The impact of "whatever" was videotaped by several Pentagon surveillance cameras; and military authorities have refused to release those videos. Until they do so, I for one would appreciate your objectivity in the matter. We will ALL stop buying your newspaper soon, if you do not change course.
Most Americans do, in fact, believe that American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 from Dulles International Airport with 64 passengers and crew aboard, including the hijackers, smashed into the Pentagon, leaving behind an evidence trail including military and civilian eyewitnesses, grieving families of those aboard the plane and identifiable pieces of the jet up to four feet across, according to reporting from the scene by the Washington Post and others.

There is a place in American society for dissent, for free speech, for beliefs that challenge the way each of us look at the world. But there is no place in our governing bodies for people who willfully ignore the truth in order to fashion a conspiracy where none exists.

In that important CNN story

In that important CNN story re: U.S. trying to keep evidence from 9/11 families, there is a statement from the Moussaoui prosecutors that 'The inquiry is "the largest criminal investigation in our nation's history, which is still ongoing," the motion says.'

9/11 TRUTH: The Tribeca

9/11 TRUTH:

The Tribeca Screening Room Presents:

"Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime"

May 8, 2006 - 375 Greenwich Street, NYC

Attendance by RSVP only: EverybodyRSVP@Yahoo.com

(This film will not be released online until after this premier)



Interesting about the fellow

Interesting about the fellow being on the progressive radio talk show and how they didn't want to talk about the possibility that the WTC collapses were controlled demolition. Drudge has a posting that Air America is losing audience.

"The master's tools will never dismantle the master's
house." Indeed.

The shows that Lionel has been doing and the one that the Air America station in Phoenix did interviewing the Loose Change crew were interesting talk radio and the callers were good. Lionel said the lines were lit up. This is an interesting subject and there are many, many people out there with questions.

Hannity & Colmes Lies About

Re the Ted Rall article

Re the Ted Rall article -
That brings back memories. I remember how the media told us that one of the stewardesses boiled water and used it to attack the hijackers and my local NJ paper interviewed family of a woman who was disabled, actually used a wheelchair, but they were sure she was part of the rebellion because she was so "feisty." And one of the men "must have" been a hero because he was a karate afficionado.

Four and a half years later is there really anything that would tell us exactly which of the passengers and crew were the heroes? Anything really concrete?

Excerpt from: The 9/11

Excerpt from: The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic's View - Democratic Underground (link above):

"Even so, the critical reader should be capable of identifying and dismissing bizarre assertions, such as Morgan Reynold’s claim that no aircraft struck the twin towers on 9/11 – this in spite of thousands of eye-witnesses and a vast number of photo and video images."


This CNN thing seems big.

This CNN thing seems big.

"The government never contemplated this material would be disclosed more widely for use in private civil litigation," the motion says."

Doesnt hurt our case, does it?

It would be the wonderful irony of ironies if this sham court case outs the 9/11 lies by fluke. What kind of documents are they any way? Passanger lists?

Hadnt I heard that official flight records dont actually note the existance of flight aa 11?



"Physical and Investigative

"Physical and Investigative Evidence shows clearly,
that there was no
shutdown or crash in Shanksville."

9/11 misinformation! yay lets pass it along.

Loose change verbatim is bad!

i know anon, Morgan Reynolds

i know anon, Morgan Reynolds has written some amazing pieces on the government and 9/11, its sad to see him pushing such a bullshit theory.

here's an mp3 of Alex Jones

This is my first (and last)

This is my first (and last) visit to 911blogger, coming from 911Truth. I can't believe 911Truth actually provides a link to this site.

This website should make it official and rename itself the Loose Change and similar poor theories propaganda blog.

look at the official

look at the official flight93 website

what did the shanksville incident on 9-11-01 have to do with the world trade towers or the statue of liberty

i am so effing angry

Wes Clark: Bush Went into

Wes Clark: Bush Went into Iraq to Cover-Up for 9/11 Failure


(audio inside)


interesting obvervation:

while browsing Craigs List I came across a thread with this title:
93 different from 01

My first reaction was Flight 93, but it's obviously about the 1993 WTC bombing. Maybe the "evil ones" used the number 93 as the flight for numerology reasons, similar to them using numbers 9 and 11 in major events?

Also....... Last night I posted a ton of truth messages in CL, but got deleted as spam. However.. probably because of complaints, they were all put back in today!! (Thanks to all who contacted the CL mods!)

Army Theorists Crafted Model

Army Theorists Crafted Model of 9/11 Attack Back in 1976: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC.htm

Devan Fulks... I would

Devan Fulks...

I would rather visit 911blogger.com than 911truth.org anyday...

911blogger.com covers what's going on in the 9/11 truth movement much more comprehensively and dynamically than 911truth.

Thanks for the visit... ;)


911 - THE BASIC QUESTIONS: http://www.apfn.org/APFN/WTC_questions.htm

"This is my first (and last)

"This is my first (and last) visit to 911blogger, coming from 911Truth. I can't believe 911Truth actually provides a link to this site.

This website should make it official and rename itself the Loose Change and similar poor theories propaganda blog."

Then you're making a mistake.


LooseChangeAndSimilarPoorTheoriesPropaganda.com was taken...

Loose Change is terrific. I

Loose Change is terrific. I sent a copy to my brother this evening; bought it on ebay. Hope he passes it along to his 20-something kids. We were talking on the phone and I was surprised by how irritated he was about this Flight 93 movie, just that its such an obvious propaganda piece.

In my opinion, Loose Change is a work of genius because it is accessible; people will watch it. The music helps hold the interest of younger people even though its a documentary; that I know for a fact. I've sent it to people as old as 78 and they all watched the whole movie and were riveted to it. They don't have to be 100% converted to the views of the filmmakers. People watch it and go "hmmm" as Lionel put it.

Loose Change2 rocks. I

Loose Change2 rocks. I don't agree with everything in the film but I showed it to my (skeptical) parents and they saw the light for the first time. I agree that there's a lot of conjecture that should be ommitted, but there's no need to get hysterical.

911 truth is a mighty train. No amount of (accidental) disinfo or phony Bin Laden tapes can stop it.

And people (if not the media) are more intelligent than they are given credit.

5 minutes of Loose Change2 is enough to smell a rat.

911 & The WTC South

911 & The WTC South Tower?
do tell karl schwarz nice photo of the plane right before it impacts the tower. do ask him why no one including himself will ever show a photo of the actual impact?
911hoax.com/table of contents

Despite the 'official'

Despite the 'official' version of events stating that WTC2 was hit by a hijacked Boeing 767-200 there is no photographic evidence to support this. Each picture of the supposed UA175 aircraft analysed in this article shows that some kind of unexplainable defect, be it a 'pod', a defective port wing, lighting anomalies or just an airframe that bears no resemblance to a Boeing 767-200. When the UA175 images are analysed comparatively we see glaring inconsistencies in airspeed, airframe symmetry, lighting, descent path angle and airframe attitude.

Army Theorists Crafted Model

Army Theorists Crafted Model of 9/11 Attack Back in 1976

it was commissioned by congress no less.


LooseChangeAndSimilarPoorTheoriesPropaganda.com was taken...


My favorite video is 9/11 Revisited. I just got a copy of the dvd and i've been burning copies to hand out to people. I've got a printer that can print on the cd so its real legit. I burned 50 copies so far. I work at a restaurant so I don't make a whole lot of money but I'd like to hand some out at the flight 93 opening night.

"Army Theorists Crafted

"Army Theorists Crafted Model of 9/11 Attack Back in 1976

it was commissioned by congress no less."

James Ha... do you have verification of this? A document that states it? I've done my best to confirm this but I haven't been able to.

the jealousy over Loose

the jealousy over Loose Change has reached a fever pitch i see.

Devan, doesnt the jealousy

Devan, doesnt the jealousy make you tired?

I can see pros and cons for

I can see pros and cons for loose change. On the one hand, it is accessible and contains much of the important information (wtc7, northwoods, 'new pearly harbour', these are the facts that cant really be disputed)

On the downside, it does move from reporting the anomalies of 9/11 to speculation about those anomalies.

As has been said many times, what you need is just the facts without the speculation. And make sure the facts are backed up to the gills to prevent '911 myths' style deconstruction.

Hopefully this is exactly what we will see in 'Everybodies gotta learn sometime'.

The article “The 9/11

The article “The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic's View” by Ernest Partridge in
Democratic Underground, (linked to above), contains a number of major flaws, including:

“The temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel.” True but irrelevant. This is a persistent criticism by the CT. However, the OV does not claim that the steel melted at the impact points (melting temperature, 2700°F), only that it was weakened. The temperature sufficient to weaken steel by fifty-percent (1170°F) was well within the range of the burning jet fuel and office supplies.”

Very exaggerated temperatures & durations of those supposed temperatures. (Google the Windsor Tower inferno in Madrid, Spain. It did not collapse.)

“The debris was quickly collected without inspection and shipped off to Asia for recycling.” False. It was relocated to a collection site at Staten Island, where it was examined by forensic engineers, and where personal effects were identified. (Here, here, and here are three of the 54,000 Google hits from a search for “World Trade Center” and “Staten Island” and “Debris”)”

Taking debris away to a garbage dump in Staten Island is not the same as having scientists/engineers examine & test the steel beams, pattern of falling, etc. ON SITE and in the LABORATORY.

“No steel frame building has ever collapsed because of a fire.” Another “fact” repeatedly asserted by CT-s. Irrelevant, even if true. The WTC towers were brought down by a combination of fire and structural damage caused by the impact from the planes. (The collapse of WTC Building #7 was not caused by either fire or impact from planes -- a problem for the CV which we will discuss later).”

Not really. The towers absorbed & withstood the planeÂ’s impacts. The towers imploded and hour or more later, as the fires were dying out.

“Assume now what your eyes plainly tell you: that (a) the collapse of each tower begins at the point of impact, and (b) that the collapse proceeds from that point downward. Next, try to weave these assumptions into the standard CT hypothesis that the towers were brought down by pre-located explosive charges. What results is this highly improbable scenario:”

You forgot to mention that the towers fell at virtually free fall speed (i.e., no resistance from the floors below.) It was a near-top, downward implosion, with incendiaries & explosives throughout the building. Very doable.

The article “The 9/11

The article “The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic's View” by Ernest Partridge in
Democratic Underground, (linked to above), contains a number of major flaws, including:

You make some great points anonymous. I hope you send this to Mr. Partridge.
Be cordial, at least he is looking into this and I like the links that he included on Staten Island. Can anyone find all the photos that were included in the exhibition?

Yet once again skeptics of 911 are being asked to "prove" what happened, thats not our job, Fetzer, Reynolds and Jones are , in my reading of them, are suggesting/ theorizing about what happened and what avenues of inquirery might be useful based on the limited evidence available to the public. They are not "proving" guilt or method they are suggesting them, and rightfully so.
But at least Mr. Partridge asks for a new investigation, thats what we all want.....I hope he has signed the st911 petition.