"On th subject of the WTC collapses. I have never understood how the sagging trusses were able to pull down the 24 core columns with them . Surely the core would have remained standing if the O.V. were correct."

No, neither the core columns nor the outer walls could stand on their own.

Congrats Professor Jones!!!

Moussaoui Trial Leaves Questions Unanswered :
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/fielding.php?articleid=8943

Hey dsm... that's a great article, but I have a problem with referencing KSM... I think I said this earlier, but I think he's dead as a doornail.

Think of the reasons, if he's alive, why they won't let him appear publicly.

1. He's been tortured, and he would obviously tell that to the world at his first opportunity.

2. If he did have anything to do with the attacks, in any way, shape, or form, then he was also aware of the U.S. Government's complicity. I'm sure they would just love for him to come out with that.

3. He may know of other things that we do not. Things they don't want us to know about.

I think any of these reasons are good enough to "off" him. Why would they keep someone like that alive?

Very encouraging comments to prof. Jones!!

The capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi bin Al Shibh were odd. I think KSM was captured more than once, i.e., there were REPORTS of his capture more than once and RBS's capture was odd because he should have been in hiding but he was captured in Karachi. His face, a very memorable face, was in a lot of news reports. I remember thinking at the time that it was so odd that he was captured like that rather than go into secure hiding.

6 post down. JT had doubts back then. Look at what there response was.

"Jon
Don't know about KSM. I'm quite new to the movement, have a lot catching up to do."

Cool. I like new people. I sent these stories to someone today... lucky for you. ;)

9/11 Mastermind Has "Disappeared" Within U.S. Custody
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6228150/

"9/11 Mastermind" To Be Held Indefinitely In A Secret Location
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1183242,00.html

The Silencing Of Sibel Edmonds
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1455

Sibel Edmonds: Letters To DoD, The Armed Services Committee And White House Counsel
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392

ACLU Supports Sibel Edmonds In FBI Case
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315

Talk about Jones' comments...

"Rep. Weldon: It'll open your eyes, because his allegations are pretty strong."

Jon Gold | Homepage | 05.05.06 - 8:12 pm | #
Weldon said this about Steven Jones?

"Weldon said this about Steven Jones?"

Chris Chris Chris...

Didn't you hear?

Incidentally... haven't heard from him.

Here's news about "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometimes"...

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58838&postcount=2

Jon...

I simply cannot stomach your BBS.

I refuse to read anything on it.
Get a simpler interface.. it takes too long to load on a modem, and its not worth it mostly... because people post single word replies and 20kB have to load just to read that...

Also, why not post in Google Groups, they have a perfectly adequate interface. Currently I have a great thread going there...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.travel.air/browse_thread/thread/dd38a...

and I quote:

> Building seven of the WTC complex
> fell down into a nice perfect little
> pile too.

Also perfectly explained. This building was built around and over a
power substation. there was effectovely a "bridge" over the substation.

Directly under that bridge were fuel tanks for emergency generators.
Falling debris from ther WTC penetrated WTC7 and started a small fire.

That small fire ignited those fuel tanks. The ensuing fire caused the
"bridge" structure to weaken and eventually buckle bringing the whole
building down. They had predicted thsi would happed which si why they
had evacuated the area before the building fell later that day.

I'm sorry to see that Jones hasn't included emails critical of his theory that I have already seen from structural engineers.

Truthout, he already said not all the emails would be friendly...and weve already seen enough criticism of the 9-11 Truth position...Now its time for the Engineers to consider theyve been deceived.

"Jon...

I simply cannot stomach your BBS.

I refuse to read anything on it. Get a simpler interface.. it takes too long to load on a modem, and its not worth it mostly... because people post single word replies and 20kB have to load just to read that...

Also, why not post in Google Groups, they have a perfectly adequate interface. Currently I have a great thread going there..."

I can not stomach the way you're disrespectful.

So don't go to it.

u2r2h: Do you have any idea how stringent the building codes in NYC are??? A multi-multi-million $$$ building cannot & would not be built in any way/shape/form that would enable it to implode due to fuel tanks, power stations, substation bridges, storage bins of TNT in the basement, or whatever other nonsense you are claiming made that building disintegrate! Furthermore, WTC-7 housed fascist GiulianiÂ’s emergency command center, FBI, SEC, CIA, IRS, offices of mega-wealthy Goldman Sachs, and God-only-knows what other elite tenants. Such Royalty is not going to be put at any risk in such a powder-keg building.

Also, genius, your ridiculous pretext is totally contradicted by the over-insured leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, who stated that he & the Fire Dept. “pulled-it.” (I believe Larry way before I would believe you.)

I mean, this r2d2 guy has insulted Jon's & everyone else's intelligence here, for Pete's sake.

The Curt Weldon part is disturbing. He's in no hurry to look into it, is he? He's got a difficult election coming up and, IMO, he's just shucking and jiving.

Jon, have you ever thought of asking Sibel Edmonds out on a date?

Anonymous, I like your style, but remember that this is not supposed to be an echo chamber. (Right?) I was interested to hear that summary of WTC7 collapse as per official story.

"date"

lol I thought of the same thing

I admire whistle-blowers very much. All of them. Each and every one of them who risk their jobs, their pensions, their health benefits, their safety, and their families' safety to report something that's not right.

Cheney Making The Case Not To Investigate 9/11 - Audio Inside

http://911myths.com/html/benjamin_chertoff.html

The PM and DHS Chertoffs might not be cousins after all: Chris Bollyn strikes again.

(It's curious how easily 911myths gets people to respond to their emails. I wonder if it's their critical attitude?)

(it might be a good idea to post that in a grab bag: the claim is so widespread)

Anyone using a modem... I feel for you, but you gotta get with the times and can't expect a webmaster to accomodate to the minority (face it most of us have highspeed).

Next, when can we all get together and actually ORGANIZE a MOVEMENT, instead of infighting and debating with each other all the time.

The blogger brigade idea is great (I emailed twice and never got in, maybe you can add me 911HijackerDotCom@gmail.com)

But it seems like we should, every day, email many places.

It should be a machine. A system. Get online, do your daily emails to places... then go to work on the blogs and message boards/comments to articles...

But we need a commonality.

We need a few items to focus on, and to use to relate to current events (Rumsfeld in the news, called a liar, lets show them how he lied relating to 911, etc...)
(CIA head quits, lets tell them about who he was meeting with prior to and during 911, etc...)

We now have basically 127 days until the anniversary, let's make the most of it and get something going to push for the final 90 days.

Let's set aside our difference in opinion and "theories" and focus on serious topics to bring up correlation between actions over the past 5 years and how it relates to 9/11...

Now.

Let's laugh it up with some more off topic.

In the search for the perfect tin hat, a few things are learned about community and mind control:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ufo1may01,0,2884627.story?coll=l...

my neighborhood's phone lines are unable to accomodate dsl so i'm stuck with a modem, but you haven't heard me whining about that -

did i read this right?

This building(7)was built around and over a
power substation. there was effectovely a "bridge" over the substation.

Directly under that bridge were fuel tanks for emergency generators.
Falling debris from ther WTC penetrated WTC7 and started a small fire.

That small fire ignited those fuel tanks. The ensuing fire caused the
"bridge" structure to weaken and eventually buckle bringing the whole
building down.

is that the official excuse for the fall of 7? and yet they built their new #7 right on the exact spot that the old one was on. maybe silverstein doubled his "built on a bridge" ins. for this new one just as he doubled his "terror attack" ins. for the old one. it fell because it was built on a bridge? ha. might as well say #7 was simply overcome with grief at the loss of it's two companions.
________________

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:
An Empirical Study

Using a $250,000 network analyser, we find that although on average all helmets attenuate invasive radio frequencies in either directions (either emanating from an outside source, or emanating from the cranium of the subject), certain frequencies are in fact greatly amplified. These amplified frequencies coincide with radio bands reserved for government use according to the Federal Communication Commission (FCC). Statistical evidence suggests the use of helmets may in fact enhance the government's invasive abilities.
_________________

great post in a newspaper on the 9/11 Patsie - Moussaui trial - see comments from David -

writer sums up the fraud of the 9/11 attacks and poses many questions to the dupified readers.

http://www.qctimes.net/articles/2006/05/04/news/local/doc44599251b644924...

Bush cares about children: http://www.bushflash.com/jpg/dug4.jpg

Our Bush-Hitler (brief pause around 20 seconds in): http://www.mutterati.com/neverforget.html

u2r2huraslapdick.

Yes. Of course I feel better now.

Now go get your shine box.

Jon,

sorry if offended you.

I meant to talk about your BBS, not about you. Its a piece of bad software thats all.. much like your president is an arsehole... Don't take it personally. You didn't vote for him, you didn't programme the BBS.

here some news:

Friend of Hijackers to go to court.

More than four years after he was charged with lying to a federal grand jury investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. Awadallah

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/06/nyregion/06material.html

In the grand jury hearing, held in 2001 in the case of United States v. Osama bin Laden, Mr. Awadallah made contradictory statements about knowing hijackers who had crashed an airplane into the Pentagon. He has not been accused of foreknowledge of the attacks.

Mr. Awadallah, 25, a Jordanian immigrant who is free on bail

DHS----

you know this last weekend i discovered that crooks and liars site---and found out it was controlled fake left opposition that tried to censor 911hoax information----

so i decided to flood them---it just so happened to be the weekend that colbert was naughty to the president---and bam

all over the colbert threads were "this site does not discuss 911threads"

the best advertising ever

they also had threads that said they were getting the most traffic they had ever had
_________________________-

so i say lets start the paul revere society----
and spread the word to every myspace music--tv show--msnbc---game sites

we can resolutely cause the cheney cabal to fall apart

Im not down with the theory of lizard people but I have been checking out some of David Ickes videos on youtube.com. I must say the man makes alot of sense reguarding alot of what is going on in this world. I really do beleive the rabbit hole goes so much deeper than we realize (well ive felt that way since a child but he demonstrates things I couldnot have imagined). He does a great talk in part 1(of 6 parts) of a talk about the Illuminati reguarding how most everyones lives are ruled by fear of what others think about them. I think the psychology applys completely to what were dealing with concerning 911. If your bored crack a nice cold Bells Oberon and check it out. I really think there is something to all this talk reguarding the occult and bloodlines. All this shit happening goes beyond just greed in my opinion. Call me koo-koo but Im still not ready for the lizard people theory yet.

JAYBIRD:

I really enjoyed the 1st 4 hours of David Icke's "The Secrets of the Matrix"
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=secrets+of+the+matrix

I'm going to check out pt 3 right now and keep an open mind, though skeptical.

................

so i say lets start the paul revere society----
and spread the word to every myspace music--tv show--msnbc---game sites

we can resolutely cause the cheney cabal to fall apart
RANDKILLER999 | 05.06.06 - 1:56 am | #

I'm down. We need a list of targets. If we can turn 1 person in each place, then they can continue the work, though we should not rely on others.

email me at 911HijackerDotCom@gmail.com with any ideas for what places to target, or if you have suggestions for my 911facts.net site / video

My "No one could have predicted" new composed:

http://forums.u93.org/viewtopic.php?t=114

good stuff SB. I hope that the jurors saw through the fog and speak out now that the trial is over.

maybe Stewart or Colbert will get McGovern on their show...

Chalk River goes boom, boom:
http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp?nid=38863&cat=2
So soon after eastern France:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20060324-1405-france-explosion....
Be very careful with that stuff.

Ray McGovern on Goss, Cheney, 911, and the commission in a counterpunch article july 6, 2004 The Senate Intelligence Committee Report

"The report due out this week by the Senate Intelligence Committee investigating intelligence performance regarding the long-sought-after Iraqi weapons of mass destruction is said to be scathing in its criticism of CIA. No problem. This too will help keep the focus where the White House wants it - the more so since committee chair and Republican stalwart Pat Roberts (R-KS) can be counted on to do whatever Cheney and Rove tell him to do. It was not until Roberts was instructed to give Tenet the cold shoulder that the latter began to see the handwriting on the wall.

As for Porter Goss, he was happy to let the Senate intelligence committee take the lead in investigating intelligence performance on key issues like weapons of mass destruction and, before he decided to promote his candidacy for director, he generally chose to keep his committee's head (and his own) down. With good reason. The myriad shortcomings in intelligence work appeared on his somnolent watch; by any reasonable standard, he bears some responsibility for impaired oversight - not only on Iraq, but on 9/11 as well.

The 9/11 Commission Report

Republicans handpicked by Cheney also dominate the 9/11 Commission, which is supposed to issue its report by July 26. Although commission chair, Thomas Kean and vice-chair Lee Hamilton have sought to appear nonpartisan, they have already caved in to White House pressure to alter the findings of commission staff.

At stake was no less an issue than whether the vice president usurped Bush's power as commander-in-chief in ordering the shoot-down of suspicious airliners on Sept. 11, 2001. The staff found no hard evidence to support Cheney's claim that he called Bush and got his authorization. According to Newsweek, 'some staffers flat out didn't believe a call ever took place,' and an early staff draft reflected deep skepticism.

The White House lobbied vigorously to change the offending passage, with spokesman Dan Bartlett insisting, 'We didn't think it was written in a way that clearly reflected the accounting the president and vice president had given to the commission.' Kean and Hamilton backed down and removed some of the offending language. 'The report was watered down,' one staffer admitted to Newsweek.

Watch for more watering down. By now Kean and Hamilton have doubtless been warned by the White House that if the highly controversial staff report that there is 'no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States' is allowed to stand, this would place further strain on the legal underpinnings of the war on Iraq. On March 19, 2003, the day the war began, President Bush sent a letter to Congress in which he said that the war was permitted under legislation authorizing force against those who 'planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.'

Kean is already backing off. A few days after the release of the staff report he emphasized repeatedly that it is only an 'interim report.' He added that not only is it 'not finished,' but also the commissioners themselves have not been involved in it so far.

Democrat Commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste does not see it this way. As Kean was talking to ABC's This Week, Ben-Veniste told NBC's Tim Russert, 'There was no Iraqi involvement in 9/11. That's what our commission found. That's what our staff, which includes former high-ranking CIA officials, who know what to look for (found).'

Ah, but what about the additional information that Cheney says he 'probably' has? Kean was quick to note that the final report will include whatever 'new information' becomes available. In other words, there are already ample signs that the Republican commissioners will continue to succeed in watering down findings critical of the administration, while highlighting those critical of intelligence performance.

Goss on 9/11

With respect to the various investigations into 9/11, Goss was thrust into the limelight by Cheney, who initially opposed any investigation at all. In February 2002, Cheney went so far as to warn that if Congress decided to go ahead with an investigation, administration officials might not show up to testify. When folks started talking about the need for a genuinely independent commission, though, Cheney acquiesced in the establishment of the congressional joint committee as the lesser evil and took reassurance from the fact that Goss could be counted on to keep the lid on--and, when necessary, run rings around co-chair Sen. Bob Graham, (D-FL).

Porter Goss performed that task brilliantly, giving clear priority to providing political protection for the president. Goss acquiesced when the White House and CIA refused to allow the joint committee to report out any information on what President Bush had been told before 9/11--ostensibly because it was "classified." This gave rise to thinly disguised, but eloquently expressed, chagrin on the part of the committee staff director, who clearly had expected stronger backing in her negotiations with White House officials.

As a result, completely absent from the committee's report was any mention of the President's Daily Brief of Aug. 6, 2001, which bore the title "Bin Laden determined to strike in US," even though the press had already reported the title and the gist of that damning piece of evidence. Small wonder that the families of 9/11 victims were outraged and pressed even harder for an independent investigation.

And a First for a Congressional Committee

The most notable (and bizarre) achievement of the joint committee was inviting the FBI to investigate members of Congress. In June 2002, Cheney called Goss and Graham to chastise them for a media leak of sensitive information from intercepted communications. A CNN report had attributed the leak to "two congressional sources," and Cheney was livid.

Goss admitted to being "chagrined" over Cheney's call. He and Graham promptly bypassed normal congressional procedures and went directly to Attorney General John Ashcroft, asking him to investigate the leak. Little thought apparently was given to the separation of powers between the executive and congressional branches, or the fact that Congress has its own capability for such investigations.

Next thing you know, the FBI is crawling all over Capitol Hill, questioning members of the joint committee that is investigating the FBI, CIA, et al., and asking members of Congress to submit to lie-detector tests. Shaking his head, Sen. John McCain (R-NM) noted the ludicrousness of allowing the FBI to build dossiers on lawmakers who are supposed to be investigating the FBI. He and others joined those pushing for the creation of an independent 9/11 commission.

That Goss and Graham could be so easily intimidated by Cheney speaks volumes."

"It is a fact that sheetrock and office materials (even mixed with kerosine) CANNOT burn hot enough to melt steel or even WEAKEN STEEL enough for a free-fall speed symmetrical collapse to occur."

Source?

"Question: does that mean he didn't find any fires on the floors below?"

The fires were on the floors above him.

"truthout": you did not respond to Anonymous' post:
"Gee, the steel inside this inferno burned like a blowtorch for 18 hours. That Spanish steel must not "soften" like ours does. http://images.google.com/imgres?......%3Doff%26sa% 3DX"

The Spanish building was a concrete building not a steel-frame building. It had steel framing attached to the concrete, part of which collapsed on the top floors.

"Do you maintain that it is, as you stated, "reasonable" to believe that the massive steel columns in BOTH the Twin Towers could soften sufficiently in less than TWO hours time (just over an hour for the South Tower) to the point of collapse???

It was primary the thinner floor trusses that weakened and sagged not the steel core.

"Please don't bother bringing the jet crashes into the mix. The Towers were designed to withstand those and more (details and references available upon request)."

The towers did survive the crashes as designed. If they hadn't they would have fallen right away. But they were damaged and the fires did weaken the structures to the point they could not hold up the portions above the crash points.

"Why do you persist in playing the devils advocate?"

We need to question everything including our own beliefs. That's the only way to the truth.

Often a horrible truth is staring you in the face, but your eyes are tightly closed. And then you lie.

I think that Prof. Steven Jones has some interesting things to say in his FEMA-NIST critique that should be discussed vigorously in academic and professional circles.

However, I have to say that Prof. Jones religious embellishments do nothing to enhance his position in this discussion. On the contrary, they seem to detract from his credibility. I realize that tidbits of dogma might play well at BYU, but I don't see what it has to do with establishing a scientific argument about a physical event in the real world.

Prof. Jones is fond of quoting "Saint" Paul. My academic studies of Paul strongly suggest that the inventor and promulgator of the Christ myth was a huxster and Roman agent provocateur who corrupted the ethical and earthbound philosophy of the original movement founded by James, the reputed brother of the man we likely mistakenly refer to as Jesus. I winced when I heard Jones injecting Paul into his arguments. What has Church doctrine have to do with the scientific investigation of a physical event? It is true that for the moment we see through a glass darkly, but in time, as the truth emerges - which the science seems to support - we could indeed come face to face with the pathological mental cases who perpetrated the worst crimes in the history of the US.

That, too, is a view that makes some assumptions. Since there is no statutory limit on treason and murder, it is no surprise that the current administration is not particularly fond of the rule of law. It could very well be that we'll see a reiteration of 9/11 before the midterm elections, the suspension of the Constitution, Congress and the courts and the declaration of Martial Law. There are palpable indications that such planning may be underway.

I don't believe in archaic dualities like good and evil. I believe that there is ethical behavior and unethical behavior - the latter driven by some form of mental disease.

Our President's behavior throughout his residency in the WH has been marked by extreme secrecy, contempt for the law, and this extraordinary effort to build firewalls around his activities (which his political party and the sycophantic MSM have been only too eager to oblige). This is not the modality of an innocent person. It sure fits the profile of a psychopath, though.

Well said John Doe. I have often thought that St Paul was the worst thing to happen to the teachings of Jesus.

On th subject of the WTC collapses. I have never understood how the sagging trusses were able to pull down the 24 core columns with them . Surely the core would have remained standing if the O.V. were correct.

Mr. Doe, I'm glad you've solved the mysteries of religion and of life itself.
(You believe that George Bush is a member of the species that is the highest form of intelligence in the universe!?)

Nonetheless, if you help us spread enough 9/11 truth to gain a critical mass, you will have done something, may I say, virtuous.

ALW, I believe there were 47 core columns.

"Yeah, the whole unit was basically set on one big teeter-totter."

Can't you be serious?