Guest Commentary on Loose Change and 9/11 Scholars at Tucson Weekly

More people are believing that the 'official' Sept. 11 explanation is more fiction than truth - tucsonweekly.com

The Monday Night Film and Lecture Series on the UA campus recently presented a film called Loose Change, a compelling and comprehensive overview of the improbabilities, impossibilities and falsehoods of our government's explanation of the events of Sept. 11, 2001.

There was a pretty good crowd for that sort of thing, about 100 people. Most were the usual lefty suspects (no doubt accompanied by a couple of Bush spies keeping tabs on terrorist sympathizers). But judging from the inflated crowd, there was likely a handful of the uninitiated as well, people who don't believe the government's Sept. 11 theory and were looking for one that contains a little more common sense.
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Why anyone would believe this administration's explanation of Sept. 11 is beyond me. These people have lied about pretty much everything else. Every single pretense for their invasion of Iraq has been shown to be false, amounting to another painstakingly constructed alternate reality. In fact, we are rapidly approaching a day of particularly twisted irony--later this year, the American death toll in Bush's irrelevant (to Sept. 11, anyway) and morally indefensible war will surpass that of Sept. 11 itself.

But, thankfully, Bush's reality dam is breaking. Loose Change is just one wave of a flood of Sept. 11 research that has moved out of the realm of "wing-nut" voices in the wilderness and into the realm of scholarly analysis that relies on documented fact and common sense. I make fun of science in this space on occasion, mostly for leaving common sense out of the equation and relying a little too slavishly on narrow interpretations of data--not seeing the forest for the trees. Steven E. Jones, a physics professor at Brigham Young University, is one scientist who saw the forest, realized it was not purple as the Bushies claimed and decided to examine the trees for himself.
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A 2004 Zogby poll showed that half of New Yorkers believe our government was complicit in the Sept. 11 attacks. Apparently, they know a bit more about what went on in their city that day than the rest of us. In Canada, where their media provides them with something more closely approximating news, the number rises to 63 percent.
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It's time to start keeping tabs on the most criminal administration in the history of our republic. Our freedom may depend on it.

Thanks anonymous for the heads up!

excellent commentary! anyone

excellent commentary!

anyone notice that 911Blogger got a spike in visits yesterday?
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s21911blogger&r=35

http://www.newkerala.com/news

Go to youtube.com. Put "wtc

Go to youtube.com. Put "wtc second plane hoax" in the search. hmmmmm....

? If that video is real,

? If that video is real, wouldn't people have seen it live?

would be nice to get that

would be nice to get that video in higher quality

http://www.usatoday.com/news/

CB your first comment is

CB your first comment is kinda my point. (?)

That video show a plane

That video show a plane coming into the tower and flying past... i.e. coming out the other side, unharmed.

not funny!

USA psycho examples

Here in the New York/New Jersey area we have a radio talk show hosted
by a gent named Lionel. During the course of his show he will present
a fact, event or cunundrum and ask simple questions. As the program
rolls on, other questions pop up to challenge your original thinking on
the subject. The odd thing is that he can ask a simple, perfectly
logical question and get responses from listeners that are far out of
balance to the question being asked.

Recently he did a show about Flight 93. Noting all the photos (and
there aren't many of them) show a scorched hole in the ground, he
asked: "Based on the photographic evidence, where's the plane?" Having
been taught by Jesuits I recognized the "question everything" approach.
The responses to Lionel's questions were astounding. Everything from
an accusatory "Are you saying it never happened?" to long, torturous
explanations about aliens and the like filtered in. Remember, all he
asked was "Based on the photographic evidence, where's the plane?"

==============================

This is in the same textbook with the political technique that throws out
something the speaker wants to have installed or approved or uninstalled and disapproved as a question that demands an answer either negative or positive about something that doesn't even exist :-)

It's a very clever gambit that if argued by the responder on either the
positive or negative side, accepts the basic premise that something already
exists, where in actuality, nothing yet exists.

Example:

The speaker wants to have a car bought and paid for by the taxpayers for his
personal use.

How to present the issue???

"It is the opinion of the committee that a blue car would be far better for our intended purpose than a black one".

If the responder accepts this opening move and argues either way with a
response, the gambit has been accepted. The issue has been cleverly changed from whether or not a car is necessary, to what color is best suited for the car. What usually happens at this point is the injection of a counter opinion on the car's color by another responder, and before long, the initial speaker has simply laid back and let the responders (taxpayers in this case) continue until a final decision has been reached on the color for his new car.

What's notable is the fact that the speaker laying out the initial statement about his "new car" could care less if it was black or blue!!

JAYBIRD, Look at the other

JAYBIRD,

Look at the other posts by that guy. UFO stuff. Not necessarily a 9/11 researcher

Guys, I just had one of the

Guys, I just had one of the most emotionally wrenching and intense conversations tonight. Sometimes in life, you're faced with concidneces you almost wish you didnt have.

I was over at my good friend's house tonight. These are my gamer geek buddies, and we usually dont talk about politics. But Scott was showing me pictures of when he was at fort deitrick he had, doing some major telecommunications stuff. Fort Deitrick is about 100 miles from the Shanksville crash and is connected to Pentagon organizing. He said he had just finished a very long shift that ended at 7:30am on 9/11. He was helping to set up the war games NORAD and the Pentagon were conducting that morning. He said he went home, but was told to come back immediately. He stayed up for 3 days straight underground, and said I couldnt even imagine the chaos. He told me that in fact fighter jets were ordered to not shoot down Flight 77 and Flight 93 under any circumstance, but that they were told it was to avoid a catastrophe on the ground.

Turns out people were being told different reasons, and that in fact they knew exactly where Flight 77 was 50 minutes before it slammed into the Pentagon. He said the pilots in the sky could have shot it down any time, but that top officials were telling them not to. He told me that the spot where Flight 77 slammed into was the only spot in the entire pentagon where renovation was going on. He said some of his friend's in the millitary think explosives were used in the WTC by al Qaeda, but that he doesnt believe there was any explosives...he did say there is so much the general public does not know about, nor could handle. That's almost an exact quote. He wanted to go into why Bush was kept at the school for so long while America was under attack, but didnt want to talk about. He also said he thinks one of the reasons he thinks Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and the other so called planners havent been allowed to be evaluated by NGO red cross or put on trial is because they were tortured to death or killed after information was gotten.

His roomate Lynn whom Im also friends with had an even more intense story. 9/11 effected her in an even more profound way. She showed me pictures of her with this guy from 99/2000. She then showed me some of the 9/11 family memorial sites online, and my heart almost sank when she explained her ex bf and close friend was one of the 58 people on board the plane that hit the pentagon. She told me how her and his wife cried on the phone for almost a day. She didnt even get his remains, and I get the feeling a lot of 9/11 families just want to forget about it, but she told me a lot of families are still angry at the government for not fully investigating the attacks or being honest with the public. She also said her grandparents were in NYC at the time, but were luckily out of the city when it happened.

When you talk to people directly effected by the events of 9/11, you really cant imagine what an impact it has had on their every day lives. You can sense the profound sadness, but also the anger. Theyre told that the anger at the government is just displaced, and theyre forcefully told to focus all their anger at Arabs. So many of them dont want revenge, they simply want to know what really happened.

I too can see why people would be steamed when people insinuate Flight 77 didnt hit the pentagon, or the whole thing was a hoax, or this or that based purely on unfounded speculation. But the point is so many of the families and survivors have so many questions that have never been answered. This is why I think there needs to be a full new independent investigation to get to the bottom of it, and do the job the 9/11 commission should have done.

Hearing personal stories like this makes my eyes well up, but it also makes me realize more than ever the real truth needs to come out wherever it leads, even if it smashes a lot of theories or confirms a coverup.

Pockybot. Incredible story.

Pockybot.

Incredible story. I agree on your last point.

I've been thinking for a while that the only TRULY credible (provable?) evidence is that there was a standown order and foreknowledge, and of course a comprehensive coverup afterwards. While your friend probably doesn't have all the facts (surely only a very few know all the details) from what you're saying he seems like he's telling the truth. Very interesting.

@stuart: see I have great

@stuart:
see I have great respect for the speakers of 9/11 Truth...but when you bring up the fact that the only solid 1000% proven facts is that there was a standdown, FBI told to back off al Qaeda, Pakistani funding, and other stuff...they'll come back with "there was no Arabs!" or "they were all CIA agents!".

My friend Scott is a late 20's computer geek like me. He'd rather be playing world of warcraft than be stressed out of his mind doing pentagon telecommunications. I can't tell you how many 20's/30'sish computer "nerds" there are in the intelligence/millitary. So many really despise Bush and the neocons, but they do offer some interesting insight.

You see, it seems like an echo chamber(sometimes) in the 9/11 truth movement. A circular vacuum where "facts" get repeated, but who out there is in actual contact with millitary intel, intelligence, or people directly affected by 9/11?
Because in order to better our understanding away from the official story, we should listen to what these people have to say.

My best friend's brother Andre has been deep within Army intel for 12 years. He says he doesnt believe the US was in on 9/11, but he says what other millitary people I know say: That the public is not being told the full truth and they think it was allowed to happen. Of course everything is so compartmentalized, and on a need to know basis.

People I know in or former millitary arent "conspiracy theorists". They most likely dont know much about what were talking about, but have unique insight to a world we can only speculate on. I am convinced 100% it was allowed to happen. From the whistleblowers Ive read, the evidence Ive seen covered in even mainstream news, to the people Ive spoke to, to just common sense..."LIHOP" is rock solid. "Incompetence" is the cover story. However, as far as an inside job...again I believe if there was direct US criminal complicity and involvement, it was grated onto the al Qaeda 9/11 plot, possibly without their knowlege.

I'm curious what ordinary people in the millitary have to say about the theories we discuss.

cartoon about Moussaoui's

cartoon about Moussaoui's 9/11 "evidence":

http://www.cagle.com/working/060509/dangle.gif

FYI... I'm creating a .pdf

FYI... I'm creating a .pdf of www.cooperativeresearch.org Depending upon how big it is (it's MASSIVE), I may put it up for downloads. I just wanted to have an archive of it to be on the safe side. Please, if you can, contribute some $$$$ to the site. As we found out by these last few days, it's an invaluable resource.

From the whistleblowers Ive

From the whistleblowers Ive read, the evidence Ive seen covered in even mainstream news, to the people Ive spoke to, to just common sense..."LIHOP" is rock solid.
_________________________

I sorry, but the evidence just don't support LIHOP. I mean the pentagon only had a 18 foot entry hole. That just about kills "LIHOP" right there. Plus there is so much more physical evidence that destroys the LIHOP theory.

It's time to stop talking

It's time to stop talking about what we THINK happened, and to start making THEM tell us what happened.

Jon, I agree wholeheartedly

Jon,

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.

That's ultimately our goal.

That's ultimately our goal. That, and restoring this country to what it should be.

One of my co-workers told me

One of my co-workers told me that the Atlanta Journal Constitution did a hit piece on the truth movement a few days back. But I was unable to locate the article on the internet.

Incidentally... there are

Incidentally... there are things we KNOW about 9/11.

We KNOW that the people in power today specifically did not want 9/11 investigated.

We KNOW that the people in power today have used 9/11 to further their fascist agendas.

We KNOW that the only people benefitting from the decisions made, using 9/11 as the their pretext, are not the American people, and instead, are those very same people in power.

We KNOW that what we were told about 9/11 was, in fact, a LIE.

We KNOW that we can't let the lie continue.

pockybot, interesting about

pockybot,
interesting about your friends. Did you see the Larry King show about the United 93 movie where they had on family members of people on the plane? Its interesting that these people are so protective of the official version and see themselves as having a stake in it. There is so very, very little evidence of a Flight 93 "heroes" explanation and surely they are aware of the Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch stories. Plus that certain passengers have been selected as the main heroes, based on ???? "He was good at judo so he must have been one of the main ones."

Larry even had on the telephone operator who supposedly talked to Todd Beamer and she's written a book. She thinks she's important.

My take from that show and other personal accounts is that I'm more wary of these folks. I start with the belief that we're less likely to get logical thinking from them than from people who don't have a personal angle. Thats not always going to be the case but there is an element of inflating their self-importance, for whatever reason.

That plane video on

That plane video on youtube.com You noticed that when it appears again on the left of the building its slightly smaller than before vanishing behind the building? So I guess he who faked that video just copied the sequence into the movie a second time...

Jon, you said: "It's time to

Jon, you said:
"It's time to stop talking about what we THINK happened, and to start making THEM tell us what happened."

Absolutely. As most of you probably know, JudicialWatch.com filed a lawsuit on February 22, 2006 against the Department of Defense to force the release of a video that allegedly shows United Flight 77 striking the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. Here's the story for those that don't know:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/5724.shtml

However, the Pentagon had maintained that the video is exempt from release because it is, “part of an ongoing investigation involving Zacarias Moussaoui.” Well, that's over with.
Let's see the goods. Now.

I wrote JudicialWatch a few days ago for an update on this, but no answer yet. Perhaps if many of us here wrote as well, someone would get a response: info@judicialwatch.org

contacting Judicial Watch

contacting Judicial Watch now.

LIHOP vs. MIHOP = an

LIHOP vs. MIHOP = an irrelevant distinction?

First off, if we are to stick with the L vs M paradigm, I'm more of an L man.

But by the same stretch, the two aren't mutually exclusive positions to take. By sticking to that terminology, we create a false sense of MIHOP being "worse" than LIHOP, when it's not. Both are equally criminal, and LIHOP = MIHOP.

I think the "orchestration" angle is a more appropriate paradigm. It's clear that there was a maestro who was orchestrating things. But the maestro is nothing more than an orchestrator, conducting the individual musicians, those being the organizers of the war games, the hijackers themselves, and the response.

Although the maestro doesn't necessarily compose the score, he does have a hand in setting the tempo, and putting emphasis where he thinks is best.

To further milk this metaphor, it's my view that there WAS a plot by a group of men to hijack those planes. They would be the composers. There was obviously a maestro, at the highest levels of domestic counterterrorism, who made them play their part to a perfect pitch.

What we DON'T know is whether the maestro had any hand in the composition of the plan, but that's irrelevant at this stage, because we already know the role of the maestro.

Though the metaphor is a bit strained, I think the L vs M debate is a weak paradigm, because to believe in LET is to accept MAKE at some level. We have plenty of evidence of a conductor group in the gov't.

We just don't know if they played a role in composing the original score (or helping 'fine tune' it), but I don't think we'll see THAT evidence until there's some high-level whistle blower, or until the maestro is put on trial for the role he DID play.

But that's just my take on it.

Chris said: "contacting

Chris said: "contacting Judicial Watch now"

Great, Chris. Anyone else?
info@judicialwatch.org

Bush: We're not trolling

Bush: We're not trolling your personal life--
The government has been secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country, it was reported today, 5/11/06.

Beware, I believe they are trolling 9/11 truthers to see who knows what. http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/11/nsa.phonerecords.ap/index.html

pockybot-- I'm not trying to

pockybot--

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but why would you have people as friends who are doing things so ugly that they won't even discuss it with you? Forget 9/11; I have a beloved cousin who I've hardly spoken to in a couple of years because of things she told me about her support for Bush and the neocons and the invasion of Iraq, her homophobia, her contempt for the poor, agreeing with her Dad (a Rush Limbaugh fanatic) about "a lot of things," etc., all things I had no idea about. I have a lot of friends, but none of them are bigots or right-wingers or Dominionists or any other kind of hateful, destructive personality.

I guess the question is really twofold: why would "good people" engage in crimes--whether against their fellow citizens, as I'm inclined to believe was the case in 9/11, or just against other people, like working as a consultant for Saddam Hussein in the 80's, or advising death squads in Central American; and why would you, who I'm giving the benefit of a doubt are a decent person, give your tacit approval of people who are doing things they're ashamed to even talk about?

I guess a third point is that your friends prove that a conspiracy is absolutely possible, because they weren't even directly involved, and STILL won't talk about it.

pockybot, It's an

pockybot,

It's an interesting idea that probably not many conspirators were aware of the complete 911 plot, but that 'need-to-know' compartmentalization of the plot implies that many people, like your friend, are aware of parts of the plot. Indeed, ex-Bush Administration insider Morgan Reynolds said exactly that recently:

http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display/71971/index.php

and he feels that the plot may be publicly exposed when these people come forward. Let's hope.

Maybe you friend (or someone he knows) could contact one of the established 911 researchers? Just an idea....

Let me address several

Let me address several points:

1. MOST people in the government, millitary, intelligence, etc are GOOD people. Anyone see the PBS front line episode about John O'Neil? If that 90 minutes didnt prove beyond a shadow of adoubt that higher ups forced the FBI to stop investigating the hijackers(whether ya believe they were al qaeda, CIA, whatever)...

2. None of my friends support Bush.
Some of them are even conservative.
I have 3 very close friends ex millitary, 1 serving, and two people I know that recently got out. None of them signed up to go be pawns, they either were pressured into it or saw it as an 'easy' way for tuition. NONE of them signed up after 9/11.
My friend Jeff was sent to the Afghanistan region before 9/11, and tried to do everything to get out before the March 2002 Anaconda operation.

3. Proving LIHOP doesnt take away from "MIHOP"...If anything, LIHOP is the rock solid base of MIHOP. People in the millitary simply have a hunch, or pieces of the puzzle. Yes, I have ex millitary friends who believe the official story, but they are just not aware or willing to believe there is something fishy going on.

4. I didnt see the U93 Larry King thing, but I try to put myself in their shoes...youre already beyond devestated about your loss, and then the spotlight on you. And then other families are saying the official version, and even making books...so you put your doubts away. The WTC victims families however seem more prone to speak out, but the flight families dont seem to be budging on the story.

Thanks for not taking it

Thanks for not taking it personally, pb. I've had friends who were in all branches, too.

Peace.

pockybot.... this is kind of

pockybot....

this is kind of excessive but...

that guy's testimony combined with his credential is potential huge gold.

he works for the govt and can testify as to exactly what happened to the flights.

this could be very important

pockybot nice try on the

pockybot

nice try on the heart wrencher but ...

your clearly full of shit

every post ive read of yours starts off with a teaser then drags away from the issues at hand or panders to the official line

try harder shill