NSA spying on innocent Americans is only surprising to the uninformed masses


The national media is in an uproar over recent revelations that the federal government, under the guise of "fighting terrorism" (whatever that means), is secretly spying on tens of millions of American citizens via their phone records. Honestly, is anyone really surprised at this? This is old news in the independent media. We've known about this spying program for years, and it's far worse than you think. They're monitoring domestic calls for spoken keywords, not merely creating a database of all the phone numbers you've called. Call your buddy in Georgia and mention the phrase "stadium bombing" and your call gets flagged for further review.
If you're surprised by any of this, let me be blunt: You're a little slow. Did you really think the secret spying activities of this government would be limited only to terrorists? Fascist governments find it much easier to simply spy on everyone, then kidnap, interrogate and torture whomever they wish. And make no mistake, the United States government today, as it exists under the Bush Administration, behaves as a fascist government.

If you're really astonished that the federal government would spy on you -- you poor, innocent, law-abiding flag-waving American patriot, you! -- then you've been suckered yet again by government propaganda. You probably also believe that a couple of small office fires miraculously caused the sudden, organized melting of hundreds of massive steel girders holding up the World Trade Center 7 building (WTC 7) on 9-11, causing it to collapse in a neat pile that coincidentally resembles controlled demolition rubble.

This is a feat that must have been performed by the hand of Allah, because it certainly couldn't have been caused by a couple of office fires. Remember, this is the building that was not hit by airplanes. Yet it suddenly, and without explanation, collapsed in perfect symmetry that can only be legitimately explained with demolition charges. In fact, Larry Silverstein (the lease holder of the World Trade Center) is on tape saying, quite bluntly, that they "made that decision to pull it" to drop the building. That's industry speak for setting off demolition charges. Don't believe me? See it yourself at Google Video.


Regarding: http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/video/wtc/wtc-flashinator.wmv

Is there a source for this video? I'm not disputing the authenticity, and I do agree that if the towers were in fact manipulated to fall, the core columns would have had to been weakened by thermite, making it look like a pancake eventually.

However, where is the flashes on the WTC7?

"However, where is the

"However, where is the flashes on the WTC7?"

On this close up video, in the second angle, you can clearly see the cutter charges going off in a vertical line on the right side, and you can see to window expoloding on the right side against the skyline.


A few thoughts: NSA - Pat

A few thoughts: NSA - Pat Robertson called spying a "tool of oppression". Suggests even 'he' recognizes the many uses and targets of the program on both sides of the political spectrum.

The internet is why 9/11 truth has moved so rapidly forward and why they want to control the net desperately. Imagine for a moment, Jim Garrison with the internet and then multiply by a million.

This person makes an

This person makes an interesting an interesting comment on the theory of remote controls or not being bale to pilot an airliner from cessna training:


Well, rest assured stock 757/767's are not able to be flown remote controlled from the ground. The only datalink system used by these airplanes is called ACARS and its a one way text type datalink that uplinks weather reports, connecting gate info, honey-do lists etc...The autoflight system is indeed very autonomous, but it need user input throughout the flight. I'm an avionics tech for a US major, and part of our autopilot/autoland certification requires knowledge of operation so we spend a few hours on the full-motion simulators to see how the pilots use each mode of autopilot to help isolate troubleshooting, etc..(buts its mostly for fun!!)
Also, alot of folks are under the misconception that since the hijackers were inept at flying Cessnas that there is no way they would be able to fly the "heavy iron". This also isnt accurate. I've never flown before, but going back to my experience in the level D sims, I was able to make a crosswind landing(albeit a terrible one) after turning off the autopilot at 400 ft. It really isnt THAT hard.


Footage of contractors with remote detonator bringing down the towers!!!



I kid, but it is a new video of a very tall skyscraper being brought down by controlled demolition. If I was making a counter 9/11 conspiracy theory video, I would definately be putting this footage in. As WTC7 and WTC 1/2 definately did not have those kind of flashes anywhere to be seen.

Tho, notice how eager and cheering the people in the crowd were. Very strange. Anyways, this footage totally rmeinds me of 9/11 footage, in that its a high rise falling with dust clouds and people in the city streets.

Definitely no flashes to be

Definitely no flashes to be seen!? Uhm...sure?

Besides, they most likely needed less cutting charges because they pulled the core with thermite.

BERLIN "A majority of

BERLIN "A majority of Germans support the "Final Solution", a once controversial program to rid the German nation of its strongest domestic enemies, according to a recent poll conducted by the Goebbels-founded newspaper Der Angriff.

The new survey found that 63 percent of the German people said they found the program to be an acceptable way to combat moral weakness and economic woes, including 44 percent who strongly endorsed the effort. Another 35 percent said the program was unacceptable, which included 24 percent who strongly objected to it. (Those 35 percent are due to be rounded up any day now, which should boost approval for the program significantly).

A slightly larger majority--66 percent--said they would not be bothered if the SS collected records of personal telegrams and postal mail they had written in order to seek out traitors in their midst, the poll found.

Underlying those views is the belief that the need to investigate treason and economic sabotage outweighs privacy concerns. According to the poll, 65 percent of those interviewed said it was more important to investigate potential threats "even if it intrudes on privacy." Three in 10--31 percent--said it was more important for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible threats. (The SS denies reports of the disappearance of many of the more prominent members of that 31 percent).

A clear majority approved of the way the Fuehrer was handling privacy matters.

The popularity of this program is leading many Party politicians who would otherwise object to stand down and remain quiet. "It seems fine to me: after all, they're not coming for me!" said Gunter von Falkenhausen, who spoke on condition of anonymity, but whose identity has been provided to us by the SS."

"Why is our President

"Why is our President choosing individuals who have clearly showed failures of judgment and failures of competence that have cost thousands of lives?"

Because our President is rewarding those who made his life possible.

September 11th Advocates

Some people cannot make the

Some people cannot make the intellectual leap to realize that if you have nothing to hide , spying still hurts you. In fact ,I swear some even derive a kind of feindish glee from this.These are the kind of people who stubbornly support Bush.These are the people who killed Jesus.Neo-christians.Reminds me of Constantine's Rome.

The MSM attention to the NSA

The MSM attention to the NSA spying and lack of attention to 9/11 Truth is like reporting how fast the house burned to the ground but then refusing to print the name of the arsonist and how he burned the house.


How can Flight 93 crash in Shanksville around 10:00 am, then divert to Cleveland almost two hours later? How can the Mayor receive such erroneous information? WouldnÂ’t the FAA ATC Tower Chief in Cleveland, along with the Cleveland Center controllers as well as the approach control facility in Cleveland as well as the ground controllers who all worked this flight know the true identity of this flight? How about the emergency personnel that are required to interview the Captain of this flight as well as other crewmembers in order to make their required reports? WouldnÂ’t they have gotten the correct flight number as well as the tail number from these airline professionals? They most certainly would have.


Amanda, Good questions.What

Amanda, Good questions.What , if I may ask ,is your contention per flight93, and its passengers fate?

Oliver Stone is as good as

Oliver Stone is as good as DONE , if he comes out with some sappy ,government apologist,"Flight93"clone .Alexander sucked by the way.(no pun intended)

hear's a little

hear's a little persuasion...




Has anyone read or looked

Has anyone read or looked into "The German Intelligence Report Concerning 911" that is being posted on the Scholars for 911site in the foreign news section?

I don't know when it was originally posted but I hadn't heard of it.

I find it highly, highly suspect as an authentic document, just because of how it is written, not necassarily its contents. But who knows, it was translated from German.

There is a long blurb at the begining that warns the reader that the authenticity of the document can not be proved one way or the other, and they are asking people to do their own research to try and validate its authenticity.

That seems a little strange, considering Andreas Von Buelow, the former director of the German secret service and former assitant of the German Defence Ministry, is a member of 911 Scholars for Truth.

I think he might have some insight into its authenticity....you would think.

I assume they asked him before publishing it on their website, but he is not mentioned.
Maybe someone with more public credentials in the movemnet could ask Mr. Fetzer or Von Buelow about this.

Sorry for double-posting,

Sorry for double-posting, but my post might be more relevant in this thread. Regarding another potential outcome.

The nightmare scenario for me is this:

Somehow, magically, we are able to convince the Armed Services Committee to launch a full-scale investigation into 9/11 failures, with criminal negligence being on the table (best case scenario, probably). Behind closed doors, the government admits limited complicity and extreme negligence (again probably reaching). Something similar to this may have already occurred. Why wouldn't we have heard about it?

Well, national security. But not it the way the term is usually used. It can be reasonably argued, that the vast majority of Americans have slipped into a xenophobic, consumption-oriented, propoganda-suckling, coma-like state of denial and apathy. It could be said, and not that inaccurately, that if we were to wake up suddenly (a la Matrix), there's no telling what could happen. Especially given the extreme circumstances. A murderous, lying, psychopathic culture in Washington. Right under your stupid little nose, citizen (dramatic effect, not you personally).

Riots. Looting. Political chaos. The stock market completely falls apart. Foreign venture capitalists move in and buy everything. A depression that lasts for decades. The economy, ruined. Famine. Disease. Death...

Literally citizens setting up gallows and holding their own trials. THE ANGER FROM THE PUBLIC COULD BE EXPLOSIVE!!! I for one wouldn't want to be Karl Rove facing a street full of angry moms who lost their only sons in Iraq. They'd be fingerpainting on the Washington monument with the contents of his intestines.

Now, imagine seeing this potential from the perspective of any law enforcement agency, from dipshit sheriff Danny Jo Bob in El Paso to every field office of the FBI. If the truth about 9/11 came out, the populace would no longer recognize the authority of any government agency or representative. I mean, would YOU if your cozy little world came crashing down? Most people in this country would freak out if they knew the extent of the atrocities commited by these monsters. Kind of like Dennis Hopper saying, "The truth, you can't handle the truth!" In a lot of ways, they have a point. If the actual facts became public, there is a potential that all kinds of hell would break loose. Of course, the flip side of the coin is that perhaps that's just exactly what needs to happen...

Back to the scenario.

So, the Justice Department's solution? Keep 9/11 a secret, and dispense justice with a much more subtle approach. Emasculate the administration, allow them to flounder publicly and basically burn out, look like fools, and lose their House and Senate majorities. Many, many politicians from both parties would argue vehemently that this is in fact the ONLY acceptable way to deal with this type of crisis.

We, as the public, will be informed that mistakes were made on 9/11 and in Iraq, but not much more. The administration would change its tone to a much more docile and financially-oriented one, and the media would keep talking about Brad and Angelina. Life would continue, and the dark realities of 9/11 would fade into the abyss of history.

Fuck that scenario.The truth

Fuck that scenario.The truth about Pearl harbour took 40 yrs or so.With a free-internet,this nut could be cracked in 10 or less.Or they might collapse under the weight of all the mutual blackmail accumulated in this unholy alliance?It would become a backstabbing orgy, and Fitzgerald's wet dream.

Color me cynical, I guess.

Color me cynical, I guess. ; - )

I think your right on track

I think your right on track with the above post. And we should all be considering these points.

I called it 'the controlled demolition of the Bush administration' which I think we are witnessing right now.

I will bring up this very point, in Chicago, often and to as many people as possible.

What we really need to look out for is the same people with different masks, taking advantage of the chaos (which I don't think will be as harsh as you describe, unless they want it that way). Many facsist leaders have come into power on the backs of public disgust (and insecurity) when the extreme corruption of their Government is exposed, especially if this is combined with a failing economy.

Unfortunately, our society is acustomed to quick fixes and solutions of their problems, and true democracy and justice can be a slow, exhausting and uncertain process.

These are things we should consider, but I still have faith that we can expose 911 and experience a soft but painful revolution in this country. We need to make that the only option!!!!

Stuart, I might add that I


I might add that I think your scenerio is exactly why 911 is not touched by themainstream and media of either party.

I understand your cynicism.I

I understand your cynicism.I also know ,Long Trial or Long War , the truth about this is bound to come out,in detached hindsight ,it will be obvious.It could become a touchstone for all dissenters,freethinkers,future presidents...do we want to be 'safe&ignorant'or'informed&free'?

Ultimately , i think if the world gave average Americans the chance to absolve their collective conscience,overlook any of their own consumer complicity,these neo-clowns would be hanging in the streets tommorow.Europe should follow Iran's lead and denounce bush as war criminal for 911.

"How can Flight 93 crash in

"How can Flight 93 crash in Shanksville around 10:00 am, then divert to Cleveland almost two hours later? How can the Mayor receive such erroneous information?"

The time of "Liz Foreman's" report is almost 2 hours later. Her report doesn't state what time Flight 93 supposedly landed in Cleveland.

Can their be any real

Can their be any real progress under a 'Federal Reserve'and 'Foreign Favouritism policy'?

I think sometimes about the actors that starred in 'Flight 93'and its director,and how they will look like craven ratbastards in the future-every one.That sort of propaganda will not be believable then,passed its best before date.I tried once to watch a hollywoodmovie about 911,cant recall the name,but the opening scene was of a flight student of arab extraction maniacally forcing the testplane into a dive , and then pulling back up , with pure malevolence in his eyes as he contemplated the fu-I turned it off as I felt like I had just been gangraped by Dick Cheney and the FAA.

NEWS! http://news.google.com/



The story is slanted! They USED journalist as MOLES!!


the ruling is that FREEDOM OF THE PRESS is more important than SPOOK AGENCIES!!

even the right-wing SPIEGEL cannot hide it!


Imagine this in the AngloAmerican world..

unheard of!!

what's next? Workers owning factories??

PEOPLE, urrgh ... the great unwashed..


Haha.. TRUE information more important.. bruhahahaha.. these naive socialist euro-commi-pinko-homos ..



fellow 911 truthlings

To John Albanese and Dylan Avery:

Thanks for your excellent films!

When you make the updated versions

make it a world-wide-public-event that CANNOT be ignored by the media.... on


release it in a good quality VCD.iso onto the internet,
as a RAR-archive protected by a password...

3rd September THEME SONG

publish the password and ask
worldwide activists to make PUBLIC SCREENING that is a world-simultaneous PREMIERE. (in this way the newspapers can make it a MEDIA story, in the TECHNO-pages.. they are
eager, but do not dare!)

Ask activist to keep the screenings going all the way until the anniversary date, when


The MOVIE ASKS PEOPLE TO DISPLAY White paper/bedsheets on their windows to demand 911 truth...

See William Arkin's blog on

See William Arkin's blog on "The Tip of the Iceberg" here:

which is also post #245 in the thread url below.

See also post #263 in this thread, especially if you are not already familiar with the PTECH/PROMIS info:


-- --

I submit that the NSA question is at the root of 9/11, or vice versa. There is a great deal of cross-over. I also submit that the end result of both issues (9/11 and the NSA) is one of three things:

1) that national security has been grossly compromised by a foreign entity or entities and the national government can't figure out how to deal with it and don't want to let us know;


2) that national security has been used in a way that grossly tilts the playing field in terms of domestic politics and industrial espionage in a way that benefits the "chosen" and limits or denigrates those opposed;


3) that national security has been grossly compromised by a foreign entity or entities with the aid and awareness of certain elements, people or rogue operations within the US government, including and up to the leadership of the national government itself.

Thats why i'm excited about

Thats why i'm excited about Tice.

Sometimes... I sit on my

Sometimes... I sit on my board, and rummage through the threads, and it completely boggles... BOGGLES my mind as to how much PROOF we have that our Government was behind 9/11.

As I said in my interviews, I am "Joe Schmoe American".


You know who you are. We NEED 20 Charlie Sheens all talking about 9/11 on the television.


Are you afraid you'll be

Are you afraid you'll be laughed at? Heckled? Called unpatriotic?

Guess what?


It's time for you BIG NAME people to get off your asses and say something.

I sure as hell hope you

I sure as hell hope you aren't afraid of losing your millions.

I have NOTHING, and I've risked EVERYTHING.


Hey guys, are we a false

Mssr. Jouet, very good

Mssr. Jouet, very good analysis of the PTech type issues. I think the answer is number 2. I doubt that a company like PTech controls our intel services. I think it's better to look at it like Webster Tarpley does and say that our intel agencies use companies like PTech as assets to carry out their plans. On the other hand, I just read in Tarpley's book the extent of some Israeli companies' involvement in installation of communications systems within our government. Apparently, this really has compromised national security as it looks like Mossad sort of keeps an eye on everything within Washinton and there is no way to untangle this web as evidenced by some of the rank and file guys who have tried to speak out. So, maybe number one is right and our government doesn't know how to handle it. I don't know.

Pocky, that post on the avionics is pretty interesting, but I'll go with the person who has a little more experience.

sbg, arg. that guy again.


arg. that guy again. apparently he doesnt understand a few things about this site.. like that i deleted his comments because he was flooding a thread trying to provoke a fight (and not because of his subject matter), and that the events on the right panel aren't put on by us..

jeez, damned if you do, damned if you dont for some people..

If You Have A Name, Please

If You Have A Name, Please Use It

sbg, dz, please post this.

I agree with you Jon, I was

I agree with you Jon, I was just asking my friend last night...can every SINGLE famous actor, journalist, millioniare/billioniare, or person of influence really think we are crazy! Is our beacon of hope and influence cructche on Jimmy Walter? I dont understand how so many people, who are well to do, or know the truth can stay quiet! :(

Glad to see you posting Jon, I come here because you and pockybot have the hard hitting truth :)

You can't please everyone,

You can't please everyone, oh well, I've been trying to get a letter out to the editor for several days now and just haven't had time. Apparently other people have plenty of time for such tasks, but instead use their free time to throw accusations around.

lol..RAND is a fool lOL...

lol..RAND is a fool lOL... but is he serious? because if he is..that is no laughing matter.

Here's some brainstorms...

Here's some brainstorms... Isn't it entirely plausible that the flashes that people originally thought indicated missiles being fired from the planes were in fact the result of explosions from within, timed to go off or manually detonated as the planes collided with the towers?

Isn't it also plausible that given that modern passenger jets are in fact flown to a large degree by inputing coordinates into the navigation system/autopilot, that such a system could be modified to receive instructions remotely?

I personally think that while it is possible that one or both of the flights out of Logan was legit, they weren't necessarily and could have easily been modified Boeings "impersonating" real flights. I lean towards this because if hijackers had really boarded any of those flights, they would have been on the passenger lists and seen going through security in surveillance video. Since the demolition of the WTC took advantage of people's general ignorance of technical issues like the design of the towers and melting point of steel, one suspects that other aspects of the farce are also similarly hidden by use of poorly understood technology, such as remote navigation of airplanes, which we know to be possible.

And can someone please provide a clear explanation as to how anyone could believe, as the web fairy seems to, that no planes hit the towers? I list all of those claims under disinfo myself.


real truther: W. Rodriguez

real truther:

W. Rodriguez claims there were explosions before the planes hit, so it is possible.

All that stuff is too speculative though.

Get an investigation, show complicity, and the rest falls into place.


RANDKILLER999 | 05.15.06 - 11:23 pm | #
EXACTLY. but you wont hear about Echelon on CNN or anywhere else mainstream.i wanna smack the shit out of people who say-"if you have nothing to hide and you did nothing illegal, who cares if the government is watching us?" how can people think like this? am i really that far out of the mainstream? initial polls showed that i am.63% of people thought it was ok for the government to be doing this.halliburton/KBR is going to build prison camps.not a peep from Time magazine or NBC News.this should be front page news in my opinion.

Yizzo, yes RAND may be nuts

Yizzo, yes RAND may be nuts on the computer with all the CAPITAL LOCKS AND SHIT, but hes not joking.ECHELON is indeed very real.look into it, its disturbing how much capabilities they have.google PROMIS as well as ECHELON.

ther rich have too much to

ther rich have too much to lose to stand up and fight... theyre are pussies... they sit in their phat houses and sip their wine and dont give a shit about the poor....

fuck the rich!!! we need the poor to stand up.. theyre the only ones with balls!!!!!

we need millinos in the streets not a few rich fucks on cnn....

our only hope lies in the hands of the proles!!!

ther rich have too much to

ther rich have too much to lose to stand up and fight... they are pussies... they sit in their phat houses and sip their wine and dont give a shit about the poor....

fuck the rich!!! we need the poor to stand up.. theyre the only ones with balls!!!!!

we need millinos in the streets not a few rich fucks on cnn....

our only hope lies in the hands of the proles!!!

Amanda has pointed out that

Amanda has pointed out that 80% of the 911 passengers are not accounted for in the Social Security death Index.That is interesting research.I've looked into the occupations of the passengers from the CNN.com lists and found out this:All four planes have top people from the U.S.companies that make remote control planes.Boeing,( google and check out Boeings' Universal Replacement Auto Pilot Program.)Raytheon,BAE Systems.(they have been making "un-manned aerial vehicles"as large as 737s since April 2001) Here are their names:Flight 11:David Kolvacin,Senior Engineer Electronics Raytheon;Peter Gay, Vice Presidnet Raytheon,Kenneth Waldie,Senior Engineer Raytheon,Flight 175: Herbert Homer Coperate Executive,Raytheon,Flight 77:Robert Penniger, Electronic Engineer BAE Systems.Dong Lee and Chandler Keller were Boeing Propulsion engineers.Ruben ornedo,Boeing satellite Communications Engineer,Stanley Hall "Our dean of electronic warfare" Director of programs management Raytheon Flight 93;Edward Felt Lead Engineer BAE Systems.What are the chances of this happening on these "randomly hijacked flights"?----Also on Flight 77 there was a Robert Plogger,of Lockheed Martin.This company merged with Raytheon and Boeing a few years before 911 to form an independant enterprise.If you read an article (sorry don't know how to link) in Foreign Policy in Focus(NOT a left wing website)" Economic Windfalls for Arms Manufacturers",Post 9/11,These very same defense contractors are crowing about how business is booming for them. One of them gushes "After 911,anything is possible" Does any one remember when it was leaked that Bush wanted to paint a plane to look like a U.N. plane in the hopes that Suddam would shoot it down?It makes more sense for this to have been a remote control plane. Maybe nitwit Bush had seen this done somewhere else,like a plane painted to look like an American Airlines and flown into the pentagon. These remote control planes could have been detonated or designed to self destruct
completely on impact,to be rid of all evidence.

"W. Rodriguez claims there

"W. Rodriguez claims there were explosions before the planes hit, so it is possible.

All that stuff is too speculative though."

I know about WR and he's clearly telling the truth from what we can see of the damge in the lobby. I don't see how it follows that no planes hit the towers. The planes were just a diversion to be able to ascribe the collapses to something other than pre-positioned explosives. People who insist on the no planes at the towers line are not to be trusted as genuine truthseekers, IMHO!

real truther: I'm not a

real truther:

I'm not a no-planer, just a skeptic with a lot of unanswered questions.

I would like to aks you all

I would like to aks you all to RE-EVALUATE this research with an open mind:


If indeed the REAL WORLD is necessarrily different from the PICTURES we were given.. we must assume the REAL WORLD to be correct, and the pictures fake.

(stating the obvious, sorry)