How far does the witch hunt go? Is no one safe from the accusations of the McCarthies among us? Do you people not think about what you're saying before you say it? Do you believe he faked those pictures proving his view? Are those 2 silly and meaningless theories that sacred to you that you would hold onto them even in the face of evidence proving otherwise? If so, how does that make you different from the masses that cling to the official story under similar circumstances?

Is anyone who does any questioning or who wishes to discuss things rationally before believing them to be cursed and thrown from the group?

yey! My RealVideo conversion had 3000 downloads!

http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/stats.html?info_hash=592260f04ff2d325e...

Also, I was the first to mention the NYT article.. don't we get mentioned anymore?

"We've Strengthened The Hand Of The People Whose Presence We Were Worried Most About"

Sound familiar?

Steven Jones got actual WTC samples? It clearly has thermite/thermate on it? This should be the biggest story ANYWHERE.

carn,

sometimes if you refresh after posting it will re-post your comment.. i usually post something, close the window, and reopen it when i want to look at it again.. leaving it up and refreshing can cause double posts..

your post didnt even show up twice lol

RE: Ruppert's latest piece "THE NY TIMES PUTS 9-11 QUESTIONS IN THE GRAVE"

Some interesting comments in the Rigorous Intuition forum. Check it out, especially the comments from pugzleyca3, such as:

[Ruppert:] "Great, anoint a not-so-credible and easy-to-dismiss Jones as leader of the movement, wrap him up in a ball with the kooks and then flush the whole thing. Just ignore the real 9/11 pioneers like myself, Michel Chossudovsky, Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed and Dan Hopsicker because we canÂ’t be so easily dismissed. IÂ’m certain that JonesÂ’ pocketbook is flush, however, since he helped trash the movement which others made credible as he appropriated their research."

I was going along with what he had to say until this point above.

What is this, jealousy? This really showed me how unprofessional he is. This wasn't necessary to prove his point, it was downright tacky and as cheap as the shots the NYT took in their article, if not worse.

Ruppert needs to realize that no one can dominate this "movement" or whatever you want to call it. People are free to disimenate their opinions far and wide across the internet and there is no controlling it. As he is.

People are not total stupid idiots and they are going to have to discern for themselves what parts of the 9/11 info they believe and what parts they do not.

People who start to question 9/11 have already crossed that Rubicon everyone wants to heckle back and forth about and such an obvious hit piece like the NYT article will likely set them upon the path of more research, not less research.

Once you know there is an elephant in the living room, an article in the NYT is NOT going to make a shit of difference.

If Loose Change is a disinfo tool, then it was a terrible move on the part of the disinfo pros who put it out there. This thing has opened more eyes than anything else I know of (in recent months) and whether or not the PTB show a video with a plane that hit the Pentagon or not at some time in the future, there is enough wrong with 9/11 that once people start looking at it funny, there is no putting that genie back in the bottle.

Maybe his article is coming from genuine concern and from the heart, but that quote I put up above makes me think otherwise.

And, later in the discussion, pugzleyca3 said this:

I think the majority of America is awake to the fact that the official story of 9/11 is a hoax, regardless of whether they believe in planes, or no planes or pods or ufo's.

Does it matter? As long as they know the government is lying, what they choose to believe about it? There are so many different facets of 9/11 to study. Because the fact is, that by invoking 9/11 in order to take our freedoms away through legislation, is the most concrete evidence of all that there is something definitely wrong with what happened on that day. That is palpable and tangible and cannot be denied.

I agree with what she is saying above. 9/11 has entered the public's consciousness. The court of public opinion is ruling that Bush either let it happen or made it happen. In many ways, this kind of wake up to the "vague" unproven truth is more important than anything else. It means that people are cynical and less trusting of government. And, isn't that a big step forward in preparation for the next atrocities and false-flag operations they'll attempt? "We won't get fooled again." At least, a lot more of us won't get fooled. Unlike Ruppert, I believe the 9/11 truthers are achieving a lot -- Loose Change 2 especially, as pugzleyca3 stated.

The thing that gets me about Ruppert the most is his hypocrisy about the mainstream media. This latest piece is just another example of how he seems to be saying that the mainstream media is controlling the 9/11 truth movement -- AS IF the mainstream media were the final answer. Sure, he says we're being mind-controlled by the same media, but then he puts them up on a pedestal and gives them the power to make or break the 9/11 truth movement. WTF? Methinks the man has too big an ego, and too big a load of insecurity.

The NY Times will NEVER report anything we want to hear. That would be the case regardless of whether Michael Ruppert were the only credible researcher, and regardless of what issues were raised. The NY Times is as complicit in the 9/11 coverup as they were in the build up to the Iraq war (Judith Miller's WMD lies).

Ruppert is losing credibility by even reporting on 9/11 any longer, since he has nothing to contribute other than "told you so." Sour grapes, that's all I hear.

carn, u2r2h, timbermonkey:

Still trying to disparage LC2E on the controversial "blue tarp" and 16-foot hole issues, I see? If you post b.s. like this here, I'm going to call you on it every time.

Myth that AA77 struck the Pentagon further debunked!

We were told that 63 of the 64 passengers were IDÂ’ed at the Pentagon using DNA!!!

Watch this video of an F4 crashing into a concrete block @ 500 mph:

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/plane-v-concrete-p1.php

Passengers could be IDÂ’ed from AA77 crashing into the pentagon @ 530 MPH???
NO WAY!!!

(Also note how the F4Â’s wings do NOT fold-up, they cut through!)

Same thing holds true at the towers!!! They claim many passengers were IDed with DNA. NO WAY IN HELL!!! They couldn't even find 3 of the 4 block boxes at WTC!!!

They lie about the IDs because there were NO PASSENGERS on any of those substituted planes that hit their targets that day!!!

If somebody has some public relations expertise in the movement, I think it would be helpful. Especially in designing press releases and then sending them out in batches to all media imaginable. I think the information the Steven Jones presented on the Alex Jones show would make for a great press release. If anybody has that skill, or knows anybody who has that skill, and could provide contact info to that PR person, that could help us get a chance at more media coverage.

Anonymous:

I like LC2E and have turned other people onto it. I think it's just a good introduction, though; it doesn't provide answers.

I don't associate a photo that was taken on 9/11 with a documentary made years later, either. I wondered what the blue tarp was hiding, and I think Jenkins has made a good case. It doesn't explain why dozens of people were immediately on site picking up fragments from the Pentagon lawn, when the entire site was a crime scene, nor does it explain the absence of damage to the lawn, the absence of significant wreckage, or any of the many other anomalies.

The Pentagon hole is what made me curious about looking into 9/11 in the first place, so I'm not busting anyone on that, either; I'm just saying that Jenkins has made a convincing case (previously made by Jim Hoffman) that the hole at ground level is bigger than the hole in the second level, and fits better with the idea that it was something larger than a missile that struck the Pentagon, whether it was a commercial jet or not.

It still could have been missile that hit in concert with preplanted explosives that were designed to make it look like a large plane hit the building. I'm not ruling anything out.

However, mindlessly believing everything you read on the internet only because it helps your viewpoint is not what smart people do. This is why I appreciate counter evidence such as that provided by Jenkins and others. It adds credibility to the movement.

Loose Change is what originally opened my eyes to the questions of 9/11 as well, so I value the film, I just hope that the final cut removes all the speculation and unfounded theory that weakens it so much.

>>I'm just saying that Jenkins has made a convincing case (previously made by Jim Hoffman) that the hole at ground level is bigger than the hole in the second level

No one needs to 'make a case' when the evidence is there in the photos. The hole on the first level is over 90.'

>>It still could have been missile that hit in concert with preplanted explosives that were designed to make it look like a large plane hit the building. I'm not ruling anything out.

Really? But you've ruled out over 100 documented online eyewitness testmonies without a second thought. You think a missile is more likely than what over 100 people saw with their own eyes, and you think nothing of that.

This is the real issue with the truth movement -- people don't count, only missiles and drones count. What people saw shouldn't be examined, only keep open the idea that a missile could make a hole that would 'look like' what all these people said they saw.

Amazing.

Please read the witness testimonies. And then tell me how you fake all the people on a major highway.

http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html

Never been to DC? Look here:

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-area.html

I find it surprising that others here can't recognize, even when it is pointed out to them, what Ken Jenkins is up to (the suppression/dismissal of govt-lie-killing evidence!). When the government has lied to We The People about 9/11 and/or obstructed justice into the 9/11 investigation (that's what sent Martha Stewart to prison, even though she was never charged with the crime then being investigated), THAT IS [SHOULD BE!!!] A *HUGE* HEADLINE. There is something very obviously very very wrong with Ken Jenkins' presentation/approach regarding 9/11. Such a gross and profound impropriety marks him as a fake(-opposition) 911 truther.
______________________________________

Reader, for God's sake don't be stupid.

The problem with this forum is that every time I post anything, unless I repeat my entire background and give all sorts of explanation on my feelings, I will be attacked from one side or the other. If anything I'm actually leaning toward 77 having hit the pentagon, and you'd know that if you'd cared to read my posts.

Again, this is why the pentagon just shouldn't be talked about. People get so worked up about it that they fail to even read other people's opinions before their knee-jerk arrogance begins spewing forth.

Something very fishy happened at the pentagon that day. That does not mean that 77 didn't hit, but it isn't nearly as simple as the official story makes it out to be, or else there wouldn't be so much conflicting evidence. As it stands, I don't know, and neither do you, so if you claim a perfect knowledge, you're lying or confused.

the evidence is there in the photos. The hole on the first level is over 90.'

perhaps. but photos also reveal that the first level remained standing for a good while after being struck by blob77 before collapsing in a loose heap.

No amount of PR technique is going to help. Who owns the media?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1057391195915718366&q=conspiracy... (a parody on an old ABC kids' show)

http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/ (Columbia Journalism Review)

http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/

http://www.democraticmedia.org/issues/mediaownership/index.php (Center for Digital Democracy)

http://www.thenation.com/special/bigten.html (Mark Crispin Miller on "The Big Ten")

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=56407 (on Operation Mockingbird)

Better we should become the media... speak person to person... invest in portable DVD players... purchase a CD or DVD copying capability and figure out how to deliver them...

Recently posted here was a link to an audio by an international law and biowarfare expert who suggests (correctly, IMHO) that impeachment or investigation is not likely to occur unless we replace Congressional candidates with folks not associated with either major party...

So PR all you want... but you're not going to get it past the gate-keepers... and the moment you try, an advanced campaign will be created to discredit you...

This is the true reason for the NSA surveillance and the use of enterprise architecture software described by Singh, Grove and others...

The Iranian revolution against the Shah was not predicted by the CIA and the NSA because the ayatollah's used audio cassettes to move their message from person to person.

Ruppert's pissed because if it is ever proven that Flight 77, 175 and 11 never in fact were the ones that hit there targets, much of his work will end up being discredited.

I myself believe that 77, 11 and 175 were not (directly) involved in the attacks.

believe that 77, 11 and 175 were not (directly) involved in the attacks.

me too, and i would add invisible93 as well.

Yeah, there was no planes used! Thats why there's giant burned out fuselages and pnae parts litering the streets of New York. Oh wait, maybe Illuminati black ops agents planted the massive burned out fuselages on the streets!

Maybe everyone was just under mass hypnosis, and the shape of the planes in the side of the buildings is fake too!

Anyways, am I the only one that downloaded the direct millitary version of the pentagon tapes and blew them up with programs? I firmly believe Flight 77 did hit(call me a disinfo agent all you want) but that for whatever reason they doctored the videos. When I blew it up with graphic design programs it looked like what some would say an A-3 Skywarrior. So this means either a small plane hit it, or they doctored it. Either way Alex Jones is right, they want people to focus in on the penetagon and argue about this stuff.

I think at this point, admitting belief that 11 and 175 were not used is like admitting you were dropped on your head as a child.

I refuse to participate in the witch hunt, but if any of you McCarthies wanted to cry about disinfo agents James and Anonymous would be good targets.

You've all done a splendid job of skating around my post of 12:12 pm.

Not one comment about the amazingly fabricated DNA results at the Pentagon.

Great work. You supervisors will be very pleased.

Nobody skated around it, we just tend to ignore non-experts attempting to give expert opinion. That, and even if you are correct it doesn't have any effect on the argument since DNA planting could be done in either scenario.

carn, another totally evasive reply on your part. One need not be an expert to see that DNA samples could not be obtain from a plane that has exploded into concrete walls at 530 mph.

Spoken like a non-expert.

And again, irrelevant.

Maybe you could at least grow some balls and type in a name.

Ruppert's pissed because if it is ever proven that Flight 77, 175 and 11 never in fact were the ones that hit there targets, much of his work will end up being discredited.

Actually, I am in the process of reading Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon", and he clearly stated in the book that he does not believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Thats why there's giant burned out fuselages and pnae parts litering the streets of New York.

ya? bust out a photo of one.

carn--your handle should really be "con", because you are a con artist who comes here only to tow the line of the "official story." You're sly answeres are always designed to to support the gov't. You are a fraud.

James, enough with the cartoon planes @ the WTC: http://www.usa-not-afraid.com/images/airplane_tire.jpg

You're retarded and should die in a fire. You also have sex with your mother every night.

Gee ignorant insults are fun.

Wow, you & the other shills who run around this board like vermin get very angry when your cover is blown.

I can't wait to see you are being held accountable as accessories after the fact. You're time is coming.