VERY cool. Thanks guys!

Not "my" group. You know what I meant.

Forty gallons of sap are needed to make one gallon of syrup.

Pre-planted explosives

Remember Mrs. Tatlock (known as Lucky Anne in the benefit golf circuit) not only worked in the World Trade Center, but her offices , Fiduciary Trust Co.
International, were right where faux Flight 175 crashed into WTC 2. Fiduciary Trust offices would provide a greater degree of access and control for the pre-planted incendiaries. It would be interesting to diagram the exterior in relation to tenant and faux plane damage in both towers.

Thomas Kean of 9/11 Omission fame used to serve as the company's director. He was elected to the board of Pepsi in 1999 the same year that Carlyle Group took over 7UP. It would also be interesting to research who had the biggest vending accounts in the WTC (my money is on Aramark Corp) and where they were located. That would be one very good way of expanding access and control to plant explosives.

http://www.pbg.com/investor/2004_Annual/directors.html

Wasn't Jim Fetzer supposed to be on the Laura Ingraham Show? That was posted yesterday I believe.

Remember Mrs. Tatlock ...her offices , Fiduciary Trust Co. International, were right where faux Flight 175 crashed into WTC 2 ?

Note that the first hit was NT 81st, is where we find the (psuedo) offices of a real Bush family fudiciary 'titan', the one who orchestrated the destruction of the S&L's- Charles Hurwitz. Chas it seems was behind the push to plow the Redwood forests, who trashed many a Union and then moved on to build private golf respites, banking $3B of your tax money in Bermuda, etc...

I always enjoy these 'success stories,' that read like Robert Murdoch's; negative equity and zero risk!

pockybot:

Google Translator:
http://www.google.com/translate

You can translate to arabic and paste:

For Example:
You didn't commit 9/11. Suck it!
translates to
انت لم ترتكب 9/11. الامتصاص!

for the record i have not gone to bed yet because i woke up at 3pm today so I'm pulling an all nighter to get back to good with my internal clock and all that.

"I wish I could post Arabic on jihadist websites. Id be posting 9/11 Truth shit all over"

I've spoken about what really happened to numerous Egyptians in the Jersey City (it has a VERY large Arabic community) area, and they mostly already had their suspicions, I only confirmed them.

I get the feeling the DVDs spread like wildfire...

It's comming from the sorrow on the street
the holy places where the races meet

from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.

From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:

Democracy is comming to the U.S.A.

New York Times and neocons bury 9/11 truth movement
http://www.rockrivertimes.com/index.pl?cmd=viewstory&cat=4&id=13567

excerpt from the article above:

"...new book by Ron Suskind,..., The One Percent Doctrine, which relates a panicky CIA officer telling President George W. Bush in the summer of 2001 a huge attack on the U.S. was imminent; to which Bush replied, “O.K. You’ve covered your ass.”

This was an absolutely brilliant event. It got into the press, and luckily the writer was very fairminded, but what is brilliant is the LINKING of these two events in people's minds. Both things are factual (people know they exist) and they are simply questioning the report. Their is little social risk in doing that but it gets people thinking.

I'm starting a new site called
towerfakeryon911.com You idiot "9/11 Truthers" trying to push the disinformation lies that the world trade center even existed. Towerhuggers!
You're all distracting from the fact the towers didnt exist!

Now excuse me, while I take obscure blurry doctored footage...
16 Tower CGI fakes that fooled the world! Why do people still think there was towers? It was ALL HOLOGRAMS!!111
Damn Towerhuggers. Dont you know
John Oneil is sitll alive?

(sorry, the no planers just piss me off)

Thanks for sharing the news of this event.

I hope we see more and more public displays like this that force people to take notice and shake them from their slumber.

Does anyone here ever just wake up with such anger about how "everyday people" just go on about their business as if all of this 9/11 fakery is no big deal and is inconsequential in the scheme of things?

Is it possible that more people will protest, demonstrate, and take to the streets? What will have to happen before that occurs?

NEWS ALERT!!!! new Osama Bin Laden VIDEO, i repeat, VIDEO-message expected!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201423,00.html

WOW! Now we will see how good they can fake him! How much they (CIA) have learned since the last "October surprise"-video.

i wonder if it will be the fat Osama?

The Myth Of Al-Qaeda

Obviously, some of the information in this article is questionable as far as the 9/11 attacks are concerned. The reason I'm posting it is because it speaks of the incompetence of most "Al-Qaeda" operatives, and the fact that 9/11 required "new levels of competence" that they simply weren't capable of. "Al-Qaeda" CAN NOT make the United States military stand down. "Al-Qaeda" CAN NOT order the FBI to stop investigating the Bin Ladens. "Al-Qaeda" CAN NOT order Omar Sheikh of the Pakistani ISI to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohammad Atta. "Al-Qaeda" CAN NOT stack the deck of a so-called "Independent" Commission in favor of the Bush Administration. In other words, the complexity of the 9/11 attacks speaks VOLUMES.

ok guys im trying to convert some co-workers and i have a hard core skeptic...what is some of the most "verifiable" proof and damning evidence i should start off with

My Ideas are:
just WTC 7 lol i know i know i need more thats why i need yall help

I need links for:
Siebel Edmonds (most damning evidence)
NORAD Stand Down
AND, any ideas to convert HARD CORE SKEPTICS

Yizzo...

Start with this...

A few days after his inauguration, George W. Bush asked his principals to find a "way" to invade Iraq. 9/11 happened, and we went to war with Iraq. It's not crazy to suspect that 9/11 was the Bush Administration's "way" to invade Iraq especially since that's what they used to do it.

Followed up by...

What Is The President And The Vice President's Word Worth?

Let me know how that goes.

You first have to convince them that they are not "above" murdering 3000 people. That is the first obstacle.

The way I generally do that is by mentioning the amount of people killed in Iraq. The official estimate just released is 50,000. The Lancet study is 100,000. A new study based on the Lancet information is 250,000.

They were willing to murder that many people, but weren't willing to kill 3000?

And finish up by stating the following...

There's a reason why the phrase, "I will support and defend the constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC" appears in the oath of office, and in the oath when joining the military.

Show them the fake Osama 'confession' tape: http://911blimp.net/vid_fakeOsamaVideo.shtml

You first have to convince them that they are not "above" murdering 3000 people. That is the first obstacle.
Jon Gold | Homepage | 06.29.06 - 10:01 am | #
also the media, you HAVE to point out the medias corporate interest in covering up something as disgusting as 9/11.it is in their best interest to keep the truth of 9/11 from coming out.

oh my god. the Supreme Court just made a fair desicion.

after the fake Video has amazed them, inform them that Condi Rice's official web site did not recognize the fake:

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-610042.html

i think i just saw a pig fly by my window........

"A new Osama bin Laden audio is expected to be released within three days."

When do they start giving Osama his own satellite feed?

"A new Osama bin Laden audio is expected to be released within three days."

When do they start giving Osama his own satellite feed?
Itsaputon | 06.29.06 - 12:05 pm | #
really. and like Anon above said, how the hell do they know about this 3 days in advance? one of those "al qaeda" websites? hahahahaha. has anyone here ever had any luck in finding an actual "al qaeda" website? sigh.

you guys are right, for sure, but its the anger that drives me.i will never stop being angry about this shit.talk to you guys later.

Dem Bruce Lee Styles and Itsaputon, thank you for the words you shared with Chris.

I've learned a lot from this site. And, even more importantly, it's been heartening to see patience and support for people trying to deal with what has become apparent.

My worldview has definitely been altered but I do want to try to remain positive about potential change. Even though I too have moments of complete outrage and anger, it's definitely not a good way to feel. Hopefully, we'll all maintain our strength to push through until it is commonly accepted knowledge and understanding what rogues inside the U.S. did to 3,000 innocent people on 9/11.

i think its healthy to have some "type" of rage aka passion..but dont let it destroy you....the reason we are so outraged is because America is the Beacon of Freedom/Democracy. But if you lived in the Sudan or a third world/war-torn country..what our government is doing is peanuts compared to what their govt's are doing to them. so lets be passionaite but lets not get too angry cuz it could be a LOT worse

I'm angry. So much so, I've become numb.

I think I need to be on the radio. Anyone have a radio show that needs a guest?

Interestingly my friends who are in a band have discussed staging a protest similiar to the one in VT and making some noise on the war, 9/11 coverup in the middle of the post office square in boston where it is usually crowded during lunch time on work days. I'm going to ask them again if they're still thinking about hostng a protest. Problem is the time conflicts in the scheduling of one and the other. But this type of protest in that area I think will be highly effective, good way to get the word out.

I feel exactally like Chris. It is my anger that drives me. Untill Bush and the "shadow government" that backs him hang I will probably stay angry. As far as Osama goes, he's dead. How people can believe that bs is beyond me. One would think they would come up with a different boogie man by now. Their tired script is getting old.

Yizzo, I agree. And, your words are wise.

But the anger some people feel may stem from the fact that freedom and democracy CAN BE LOST. Building a history and continuing to operate all on a pack of 9/11 lies is poisonous.

I don't think any of us would for one moment tolerate a relationship with someone who behaved as if he or she was living in an alternate universe (his or her own reality). But, that is exactly what many people are doing regarding 9/11, almost in schizophrenic fashion.

"I donÂ’t have time for democracy. I canÂ’t be bothered with freedom and democracy."

ThatÂ’s the attitude many Americans have about all of the things that have been doing down since 9/11.

The Osama & Qaeda tapes have recently been standardized: Osama only on audio, Uncle Zawahiri & Zarqawi always with the same video: a machine gun aside them, etc.
- Their phony 'terrorism experts' can claim it's been an 'authenticated' voice, but unless Osama is on video, it get's suspicious. So I see a chance Osama is on video (some MSM are not talking about an audio tape).

Calif. city weighs Bush-Cheney impeachment: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060629/ap_on_el_ge/berkeley_impeachment;_yl...

another example of media complicity: they're only listing the fake-tapes, while the ones that denied the 9/11 involvement are *ignored*:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4010474.html

Oustanding article:
Viewpoint: New York Times and neocons bury 9/11 truth movement http://www.rockrivertimes.com/index.pl?cmd=viewstory&cat=4&id=13567

"But the anger some people feel may stem from the fact that freedom and democracy CAN BE LOST." '

truthsearching2006, maybe that freedom has to be lost in order to be reborn. Maybe the constitution has to be destroyed so we can start again on a new path. This country was set in secrecy when the constitutional convention was held without the press or public oversight.
Two quotes from Lord Acton may enlighten you "Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity."
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion."

>But the anger some people

The problem is that the 9/11 "operation" -so to speak, was a perfect success. Maybe the Flight93 crash and WTC7 weren't as planned, but even that could not withstand the overwhelming psychological campaign about 'patriotism' and other Orwellian propaganda that was to follow. To top it, all investigations were successfully delayed until the 9/11 commission, and even that commission was successfully set up to cover-up the truth, including the respectable NIST that was only allowed to provide a 'by fire' collapse theory. Then the wars, and "4 more years" for the NeoCons.

Almost 5 years after 9/11 it can hardly be said we're trying to prevent the cover-up from succeeding, it has succeeded already and we're insisting on an appeal.

"Almost 5 years after 9/11 it can hardly be said we're trying to prevent the cover-up from succeeding, it has succeeded already and we're insisting on an appeal."

But the appeal is being done by the spread of information online. It's like someone being tried in the press. That's why I'm not concerned about the facts all being flushed out about 9/11.

I think the best example is appeal to peoples logic 1st and then emotions 2nd.
For instance whenever i show someone a dvd I also print out a list of newspaper clippings from "official" sources to back up all of the key points. That appeals to their intellect and 2nd I ask them to consider one of their family members dying from the hands of "crip or blood gang member" how would that make you feel? They would be angry...well instead of the neo-cons having an official gang they have an administration that can cause far worst damage than any gang can begin to contemplate.

Another quote by Lord Acton which needs repeating.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

>But the appeal is being done by the >spread of information online. It's >like someone being tried in the >press.
That's the problem: the MSM, Leftwing, Rightwing and of course Bushco. deny that there is anything to be investigated, as if we were all 'obviously' wrong.
What would really be needed is the measures outlined here:

http://www.sendmeabuck.com/

Reinvestigate the events of 9/11/01
Dr. Steven Jones will be asked to be an investigator
Thousands of 9/11 related photos & videos will be released by our Government
All testimony will be taken in public and under oath
George & Marvin Bush, Richard Cheney, Larry Silverstein, Gene Corley, and others
will be called to testify before Congress

Criminal proceedings will held as appropriate

"Criminal proceedings will held as appropriate"

That's just a waste of time. We are far beyond that point. The only thing we can do now is spread the truth through means other than the MSM. If the MSM pays attention fine, but if they don't move on without them. Don't show them any respect by begging them. Find an alternative method. I bike blog for instance.

yizzo: When the government terrorizes and kills its own people that's as bad as it gets. After that we're just talking about the scale of the atrocity.

I think it's best not to make excuses. That's like the battered wife who says, well my friend's Susan's husband uses a belt so I don't have it too bad.

Off topic...

Someone here posted a link to a video of a bird sitting on a ledge near the Twin Towers before one tower began to fall. It was as if the bird knew something was coming.

Can someone repost this link or tell me where to look for it? I want to download this video.

"It was as if the bird knew something was coming."

Sorry don't have the link. The bird reacted to the explosion in the other tower just before the second plane hit. Watch closely the tower that isn't hit, there's an explosion.

Bin Laden audio??? MSM has been hyping the release of a VIDEO tape, not audio.

Nice bait and switch.

-Culhavoc

Right, Istaputon, that's the video. Were you the one who posted the link?

I can't remember which thread it was in but I am looking for the link to the video now.

I don't remember where I got it. It might be in here somewhere. They have thumbnails.
http://www.terrorize.dk/911/

Methods questioned in investigation leading up to Sears Tower arrests

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Methods_questioned_in_investigation_le...

It's this video:
http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?cat=8&med=0&ord=Name&strt=0&vid=7...

Itsaputon, I can't find it in that site. If you run across it sometime, please repost. Thanks.

That's it, Greg. Thanks.

maddog said:
"Yesterday I got in a big argument with a woman I work with about 9/11 truth. She just won't believe the government would kill 3,000 Americans and refuses to believe.... she just won't listen. What kills me is that she knows.... I guess even if there were signed confessions by Bush and Cheney there would still be people who wouldn't believe it. I'll tell you, being a truther is tough work."

maddog, I have a theroy, and you can take it or leave it: there are people, perhaps 30 - 50%, that are genetically predisposed to be followers/sheeple. No amount of reason will change this programming. I see it even in members of my own family. The just want to "go along to get along". It is up to we who are not sheeple to take our country back with an intensity and sense of purpose not seen since the American Revolution. Upon seeing our strength, coherency and mounting evidence for our position, these timid souls will eventually turn and follow us. In the mean time, it is a waste of our precious time and resources to try to convince them, beyond an initial attempt or two.

"She just won't believe the government would kill 3,000 Americans"

Have you told her about Sibel Edmonds? Does she believe Sibel Edmonds exists? www.justacitizen.com

Body parts at S.I. dump, 9/11 kin say

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/430562p-363005c.html

"...claiming that hundreds of human body parts - not just tiny fragments - are buried at Fresh Kills landfill.
The parts are mingled in some 414,000 tons of debris that weren't properly sifted after they were transported from Ground Zero, the suit says."

...why was there not enough care taken with WTC debris, Mr Giuliani?

>The just want to "go along to get >along". It is up to we who are not >sheeple to take our country back

An economic crisis would stop that, for sure. And guess what, we're sitting on a time bomb: $8 trillion debt and counting, record deficits with China, Japan, Europe etc..

What do you think of Wing-TV's efforts in the 911 truth movement

http://wingtv-poll.cjb.net/

I agree with Jon Gold. I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing this either. I think that is why I get so frustrated when others won't listen. I want this bull crap over with. I want to enjoy life with my kids and grandkids. I am not gunna live forever and I am getting damn impatient.

Here's photo from that video to compare with real photos of OBL:

http://media.wagt.com/images/osama_bin_laden_nim.jpg

Comments to the "9/11 Deniers" article a couple of days ago. 42 pages!

http://letters.salon.com/ent/feature/2006/06/27/911_conspiracies/view/

This link might be better.

http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/war/bin_laden_vid.ram

new second hit footage!

one two three
shep | 06.29.06 - 4:43 pm | #
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, please shep, tell me you dont believe that is real,untouched footage.you cant be serious. and i still say the Pentagon is worth talking about. 84 confiscated videos and a missile sized hole in c-ring says it is.

that spook Robert Baer was on The Colbert Report last night spouting off again about how Iran was behind 9/11. "we went to war with the wrong country" is what he said. just laying the groundwork.........

Despite what Jon may say, the Pentagon is very damning for the "official story."

"Despite what Jon may say, the Pentagon is very damning for the "official story."

And what does Jon say about the Pentagon other than I think Flight 77 hit it?

How does that change my stance on the fact that our Government was complicit in the attacks?

Does it? Cause if it does, I'd REALLY like to know.

I asked earlier about the "roots" of the movement. The following list is something I grabbed from a letter I posted to Howard Stern on his Bulletin Board. I hope some of these talking points help.

If you want to do your own research, I suggest looking up:

"Peak Oil"
Government Drug Trafficking
Money Laundering
the PNAC (Project For A New American Century)
Wargames like "Vigilant Guardian", and "Tripod II"
Opium growth in Afghanistan before and after our invasion
The Afghanistan/Russia War
Osama Bin Laden/CIA affiliations
MASCAL/PENTAGON
PEOC
PTECH
CIA/Wall Street Connections
PROMIS Software
Put Option purchases 2 days prior to 9/11 by A.B. Brown on American Airlines and United
Mayo Shattuck resigning one day after 9/11 from A.B. Brown
Khalil Bin Laden and the flights out for the Saudis and the Bin Ladens
Mahmoud Ahmed
Pakistani ISI
Caspian Sea Pipeline
Iran/Contra
Whistleblowers like Sibel Edmonds and Coleen Rawley
the toxicity around "Ground Zero"

and especially, above everything else, THE WARNINGS!!! Make sure you first check all of the mainstream media sites like CNN, MSNBC, and yes, even Fox News. Then go to your alternative news sites"

Of course, you can add more, but those are the things I originally focused on. Maybe they can help someone else.

I am so fucking sick of these no plane people, who KNOW their theory is fake, then GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO FAKE video.

Please please please ban this shit. I'd rather have people talking about UFO's than this insulting shit. They might not be shills, but they DO NOT have the interests of the families or 9/11 Truth in mind.

Also, Im fucking goddamn sick of 90% of the so called liberal dudes on every mainstream forum calling us "tinfoil idiots". Barrie Zwicker is right, the left needs to be attacked. Im sorry, how can you have patience for people who claim Bush is hitler and a liar, bit cant see how obvious 9/11 is?

Yeah, 9/11 is really a conspiracy "theory"...ASK THEM if saying Bush lied about Iraq or stealing the election is a theory

No planers and Bush haters who laugh at 9/11 Truth can suck it.

That "shep" person really is an asshole. Posting phony WTC video as if it's real is just plain wrong!

nevermind the Bush loving republican sheep that wave their flags for more war..........

christ, at least the left does SOMETHING to stop this creeping fascism. thats more than can be said for anyone on the right.

all i see from the right is people saying reporters should be jailed for reporting the truth.

>in my opinion Hoffman belongs within the scholars instead of as an outside critic - it would be nice if Fetzer and he could put the ad hominem attacks aside and unite (whilst calmly debating)
_____
Jim Hoffman's original contributions were so ambitious, and such a genuine and thorough attempt to wrestle with a mound of data that literally had required 125 people 10 years to compile, and we're talkin' with tens of millions of dollars here. I liked it a lot.

But, the SF group found both Ralph and Jim to be beligerant, not the best team players. So, the "Scholars," (and I do mean p.-h.-d,-'s) just needed their own ivory tower, and I'm OK with that.

Jim, like Alex Jones, often speaks to us with a bit of a sharp tounge, so if you don't think fast, it leaves huge gaps in the comparable line of reasoning. Now, we're not all supposed to agree here. That's the nature of Science, and don't forget it!

My latest theory, (marveling at the complete absurdity of some of this 9/11 debate,) is that Saturn is HOLLOW! --In fact, it's the actual place called "Heaven." Now, who among you can prove me wrong? (I do suggest you book early) :)

Some may be upset at me for flipping out on Jim Fetzer a few threads back about his performance on the Colmes show, but when I heard the Olson story fly out of his mouth, I felt the need to give him a piece of my mind.

I also feel that if we want to turn more people on to what really went down on 9-11 (instead of turning them off), we shouldn't be afraid to demand that our self-appointed "9-11 truth leaders" put forward factual information when appearing on national TV and radio. And if they don't we should make it clear to them that we will drive them out of the "movement" if they do not do as we ask.

I'm not saying that speculation doesn't have a place in the "movement", but I AM saying that it shouldn't be spewed on national TV/radio news talk shows when our "representatives" are called on to represent 9-11 truth.
stallion4 | 06.29.06 - 4:59 pm | #

I agree. I think we need to put some peer pressure on Fetzer to focus on hard 9/11 evidence and avoid speculation and irrelevant topic when he is on major media broadcasts, if he wants support from the 9/11 community.

======================================================================

Two in front carried an upside-down American flag; two at the rear carried a large white sign with the message: "Arrest the U.S. government — 9/11 was a U.S. military attack."

Now that's a good statement, the type of which is entirely lacking from all those plane-hugging Muslim-hijacker-blaming govt-hugging LIHOP types. (There's still no way to take the LIE out of LIHOP!)
______________________________________

...in the event that you want one.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)