Faith, Truth, and 9/11

David Ray Griffin's new book synthesizes his role as a Theologian and spokesman for alternative views of the events of 9/11. This will be soon be followed by a volume co-edited by Kevin Barrett, including contributions by well-known Christians like John Cobb and Griffin, Muslims like Yasmin Mogahed and Faiz Khan, as well as longtime Jewish activists and writers like Roger Gottlieb and Rabbi Michael Lerner.

The following essay by William E. Douglas, Jr., (Christian), is an appeal to members of all 3 faiths to look very closely at the events of 9/11. In the essay, Mr. Douglas suggests that these 3 faiths are being cynically set against each other via False Flag attacks and COINTEL operations that exploit racism and xenophobia to amplify division and distract from the pursuit of the truth;

Why the Jewish Community Should Demand 9/11 Truth

im agnostic. i feel like

im agnostic. i feel like atheists are as absolutest as hardcore religious people.they both claim to know "the truth" without any proof.sort of like the governments official conspiracy theory.

Has anybody read Griffin's

Has anybody read Griffin's new book yet? I need copies for my southern right-wing relatives....

Any body have a recording of

Any body have a recording of the commercials that are running on cspan for the 911 conference show on saturday?

Great essay by Bill Douglas,

Great essay by Bill Douglas, Jr. It's been a hard road, delivering 9/11 truth to the Christian community (the Christian site I'm news editor for has been doing it for about a year) but hopefully with DRG's new book, and the book Barrett is editing, we will start to turn the corner. I've sent some serious "guilt trip" letters to well known Christian names that aren't tied to the Bush administration (people like Jesse Jackson, Desmond Tutu, etc.) hopefully one day soon someone like that will go public. it will have a lot more weight than even celebrity endorsement.

Does anybody know which clip

Does anybody know which clip C-SPAN is planning on airing? Is that clip already available free on the Internet?

I don't believe the book is

I don't believe the book is out yet. Supposedly due out by end of this month. Keep in mind that the book will be located at bookstores (i.e. Borders) under Religion (Christian), not Politics & Government. Just an FYI.

Anyone going to see the new

Anyone going to see the new movie "America: Freedom to Fascism" due out this Friday? I saw parts of it on Google a few weeks back and it looks amazing.

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

K.

What got my attention in the

What got my attention in the article was this "it is ridiculous to say that [so and so] was repsonsible..."

I think it is logical to say that it wasn't the 19 evil doers with box cutters alone. Beyond that there is still much evidence and work to be done.

Anybody know of good free

Anybody know of good free DVD editing software for computer?

jj111, I use Ulead DVD

jj111, I use Ulead DVD Workshop 2, but I see there's an Express version which is less expensive....

Anyway, DVD Workshop 2 has been very good for a number of my projects -- from simple to complex.

http://www.ulead.com/dws/runme.htm

Anybody know of good free

Anybody know of good free DVD editing software for computer?
jj111 | 07.27.06 - 5:10 pm | #

yeah, i am looking to put several 9/11 movies on one dvd... i have a burner. any suggestions?

Kurt, I would love to see

Kurt, I would love to see America: Freedom to Fascism, but I'm not in one of the cities where it's opening this weekend. I did put in a word with the Carolina Theatre in Durham, NC though and they're looking into getting it for possibly August. I'm hopeful...

Drew, see my posting on DVD

Drew, see my posting on DVD editing software right above yours...

Blknight18, how about a Bill

Blknight18, how about a Bill Moyers and David Ray Griffin press conference?! One can dream....

I ordered his book and the

I ordered his book and the anticipated shipping date is August 8th.

poor Bill Moyers. i miss

poor Bill Moyers. i miss that guy. NOW is still a good show, but it will never really be the same. fuck Ken Tomlinson.

The night before his famed

The night before his famed suicide, drug-crazed journalist Hunter S. Thompson telephoned Toronto Globe and Mail reporter Paul William Roberts, insisting the Bush administration had in fact executed the World Trade Center attacks. One might suspect Mr. Thompson was tripping on some high-powered blotter acid, had he not insinuated the same during a decidedly sober radio interview in 2002. Nevertheless, an obviously unstable Mr. Thompson was paranoid someone would try to kill him.

"They're going to make it look like suicide," he told Mr. Roberts. "I know how these bastards think."

Mr. Thompson, of course, was not assassinated; he just didn't want to die without stoking conspiracy theories.

http://www.truwinnipeg.org/bush.html

jj: Pirated Software is

jj:

Pirated Software is free!

Let me know if you want Nero 7 Platinum. I'll make it available for you somewhere in cyberspace.

email me at 911hijackerdotcom@gmail.com

CK: I just received DRG's

CK:

I just received DRG's book yesterday. I haven't read it carefully- I've been skimming parts due to a busy week. Here is a summation of the contents, with a few observations injected here and there.

This is a book aimed at spiritually-minded people of faith. It is written by a liberal Christian to an audience that accepts the existence of a creator God interested in human affairs. Many people in the Truth movement reject religion outright- either as agnostics or atheists. (If you are such a person, this book is probably not for you, nor is this summary... So you might as well bail before this gets boring...)

The first five chapters of the book are condensed versions of prior arguments made by Griffin in "The New Pearl Harbor" and "Omissions and Distortions" and in other presentations. Due to the comparative brevity of these chapters, I would not recommend this book as an introduction to the tenets of 9/11 Truth, even for Christian readers.

The second five chapters (Part Two, as it were) are specifically theological- a great deal of it discussions about Demonic evil within the American empire and the provocative parallels between Imperial Rome during Christ's time and the era of American empire in which we find ourselves. In one particularly resonant illustration, Griffin asks us to consider how Rome used terrorism to maintain order - and we are reminded that crucifixion was itself a public form of slow-motion torture-unto-death, with opponents of Rome nailed on crosses and displayed, writhing in agony, in heavily-trafficked parts of the empire. Given how the current administration has repeatedly made legal arguments for particularly cruel forms of physical and psychological torture, one can not help but agree.

Griffin explores many other parallels between Christ's Rome and America of today- all equally resonant and grimly disturbing. Yet I must note that this book appears to me on first review to be a more difficult book than his previous two- and I imagine that even Christians may find themselves disagreeing with some of his specific conclusions with respect to Christian theology. (Questions like, "Is God ultimately in control of human history? Is there the potential for demonic evil to permanently thwart God's purposes for His creation? Is the outcome of history uncertain?" are certainly ones likely to provoke the more conservative and literally minded evangelical to great agitation or distress. (I suspect orthodox Muslims and Jews will feel similarly off-put by these questions...)

The traditionalist Christian believes that the echatological character of the Bible offers a truly apocalyptic future- one that is in fact unavoidable and pre-ordained- full of massive catastrophe, unprecedented loss of human life, a one-world economic system, a "Mark of the Beast" that will be forced upon the right hands or foreheads of all, etc. etc. etc. Yet in the midst of the crisis- the traditionalist is encouraged not to lose hope, because God ultimately will intervene in order to stop humankind from destroying itself.

The apocalyptic traditions of Islam are equally grave- and in some cases parallel- notably in that the Hadith also speaks of a mark that all mankind will be forced to take upon their foreheads, lest they be killed... (I should note however that in Islam this mark identifies the believer, and the death of those who resist is a just one.)

Forgive my digression, but I mention it to illustrate the very specific character of the prophetic traditions of the world's two largest monotheistic faiths. In eschewing the literalist view of eschatology, Griffin invites the reader of traditional views to consider something previously unthinkable- that the future is uncertain. (I recognize that for the majority of people, this is in fact a commonplace assumption- so forgive me if this seems like an obvious statement of fact. I do not believe that the majority of American Christians view the future this way, however...)

It is particularly interesting, and I would say even a bit vexing- that Griffin asks his Christian readers to perceive America as a reconstituted Roman Empire- more great and horrible than even that omnipotent state at the height of its glory- even as Griffin implicitly asks Christians to reject a literal reading of Christian prophecy (particularly those of Daniel and Revelation), which expressly suggests that the final world empire which will arise and terrorize the whole of the globe will specifically be a reconstituted Roman empire. (I would expect he may receive an email or two from people asking him to reconsider, in light of his argument, a more literal reading of the prophecies of Daniel and John...)

The book ends powerfully if a bit abruptly with Chapter 10- "A Call for Action and Reflection". One can not help in reading it to feel both anger- particularly as Griffin recounts the seemingly deliberate and systematic ways in which our media is failing us on this most critical of subjects- and melancholy, as his evocation of Bonhoeffer's resistance against Nazism reminds us that sometimes resistance leads to martyrdom. Yet one can sense here as in all of Griffin's writing a sense of eternal optimism- and of true spiritual purpose. In this way, the book is somehow hopeful, even as it confronts us with the full extent of the spiritual darkness of our times.

It's actually been the 9/11

It's actually been the 9/11 truth movement and people exposing the OTHER big evil coverups of the globalists and the US that I think is making people look at Christianity in a positive light again...or at least other spirutal beliefs.

You say most Truthers are agnostic, yet most acknowlege the idea that a secret society of occult worshippers runs the show. Hell I've seen direct evidence of this...tho, again I'm not Christian...I just have a lot of studies in theology, Judaism and Islam.

I applaud DRG for trying to shift the view that all Christians are Bush worshippers.

disinfo, wow thanks for the

disinfo, wow thanks for the thoughtful and lengthy review of Griffin's new book. Since I am an atheist, and gay as well (meaning, a lot of Christians think I'm damned), it's not a book that I was drawn to EXCEPT in hopes that it might illuminate the truth to my Christian relatives. But, since you said this:

The first five chapters of the book are condensed versions of prior arguments made by Griffin in "The New Pearl Harbor" and "Omissions and Distortions" and in other presentations. Due to the comparative brevity of these chapters, I would not recommend this book as an introduction to the tenets of 9/11 Truth, even for Christian readers.

I'm less inclined to buy copies for my relatives.... plus the fact that they aren't liberals, so will probably just scoff at any interpretations of the Bible other than their own (think southern conservative head-in-the-sand rapture believers). Oh well....

All that being said, Griffin is still one of my favorite 9/11 truth researchers.

"David Ray Griffin's new

"David Ray Griffin's new book synthesizes his role as a Theologian and spokesman for alternative views of the events of 9/11."

There is no such thing as "alternative views" of 9/11. There are only the facts of 9/11 which show Griffin to be spokesman for the Inquisition.

your sucky

your sucky

pockybot: I definitely don't

pockybot:

I definitely don't think that most Truthers are atheist or agnostic- just that many are. I could've made that point more clearly, though.

I would also note that there are a great many Christian leaders across the political spectrum who have expressed considerable frustration with Bush and the administration's belligerent foreign policy. Many of the opponents of the War in Iraq were Christian leaders, rejecting the doctrine of "pre-emptive war", as it did not meet the criteria of a "just war". Jim Wallis is one of many who fought against it before it began, and fights against it still, editorializing about the war in nearly every other issue of Sojourners Magazine...

All that to say this- there is certainly the stereotypical "Bush evangelical base"- those who believe him to be a true Christian. A few even believe God put him into the White House because only an evangelical Christian could rise to the challenges of the post-9/11 world.

But outside that visible minority that contributes greatly to the stereotype of the blind, gullible, warmonger Christian fool- there is a much larger group of believers with a wide diversity of opinions, across the political spectrum. David Ray Griffin, then, is perhaps less of an anomoly than he may appear. But certainly, he is a positive witness for what it means to be a Christian.

The movie that got Mr.

The movie that got Mr. Douglas all fired up is scheduled to be aired again on Saturday night on CINEMAX:

"Protocols of Zion"

Cinemax is scheduled to rebroadcast this film on July 29th at 3:20am. Could someone please arrange to tape this film, and send in any images here of the 911Truth movement at ground zero.

Check out the cover to this "film";
http://crisisinamerica.org/zion.html

Subtle, huh? Stacks of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" stacked up like the Twin Towers.

There must someone out there with a TIVO who can supply 911blogger with some screen caps of the 9/11 Truth stuff being conflated with anti-semitism?

"your

"your sucky"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

im agnostic. i feel like

im agnostic. i feel like atheists are as absolutest as hardcore religious people.they both claim to know "the truth" without any proof.sort of like the governments official conspiracy theory.
Chris | Homepage | 07.28.06 - 11:38 am | #

Chris, like most things it's not so simple. Sure, there are absolutest [sic] people (myself included, at one time) of all flavors but don't slap that label on all atheists. Do yourself a favor and read these definitions of strong and weak atheism.

Then, ponder this. I consider myself to be a weak atheist (I lack belief in the existence of any deities), a strong atheist (I specifically disbelieve the existence of all deities I have ever heard of) AND an agnostic (I don't KNOW if those beliefs are correct).

So, are any other atheists/agnostics/freethinkers at all bothered that MUJCA excludes them by the very title of their organization?

Well, I was baptized a

Well, I was baptized a Methodist, attended Congregational churches as a teen (stop going as a teen), married a Catholic in a Congregational ceremony and then a Catholic ceremony, divorced her, married a "lapsed Catholic" in a civil ceremony, raised two wonderful kids without any religious involvement, have read a lot about Buddhism, Hinduism, and others, revere an itinerant preacher named Jesus for what he said and how he acted (not how he is interpreted or proselytized by humans),and consider myself dominantly a student of taoism. (Other than that, I'm still learning.) And, no, I'm not offended by the MUJCA positioning; I think it's intent is to be inclusive. The issue of 9/11 and its sequelae has to be seen in the dominant three religions; they are the ones seemingly being set to war among one another by humans, one result of which was 9/11. 9/11 doesn't have anything to do with God, however you see him or her, or don't acknowledge or believe. But 9/11 sits in the context of billions of people whose cultural backdrop includes one of those three religious faiths.