Here is the FTW comment on this Rawstory article:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_of_widows_claim_911_Independent_...

[What “The Jersey Girls” have to say here is heartbreaking.

These women have invested thousands of hours into investigating the crimes on 9/11 – a workload that I myself am very familiar with. They know that the 9/11 Commission, the U.S. government and the military are all lying and they have read Crossing the Rubicon as well as Paul Thompson’s book The Terror Timeline. I know this much is true because it is obvious from the testimony they gave back in July of 2005 at a Congressional briefing convened by Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney.

Nevertheless, they seem to be clinging to a delusional belief that there is some justice to be obtained through the official American “legal” system. As we now watch the global elite turn their backs on the Bush administration, I fear the day is coming when The Jersey Girls will be on the campaign trail supporting Hillary Clinton.

May god have mercy on all Americans (including me).

For the real information regarding NORADÂ’s lies and what really happened on 9/11, review the following FTW links:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/members/080406_one_wargame.shtml

http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml – MK]

Mickey Z.: A 9/11 Angle Ignored By Hollywood
As Oliver Stone falls all over himself to appear mainstream, Hollywood continues to ignore geo-political context and questions about the official story. So, if it's all about finding 9/11 "heroes" to canonize on the Big Screen, how about those involved with Peaceful Tomorrows?
http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=4004

Anonymous, I just read that FTW comment as well. And, as you said, so many high-profile Democrats indeed are like back-up Neocons. I was just reading about Kerry's comments regarding Lieberman's defeat. He's backing Lamont. Do these people EVER do anything unexpected? Hey, I'm against Lieberman too, but frankly I don't know anything about Lamont and it wouldn't surprise me if he's just another DINO (Democrat In Name Only) especially if Kerry is endorsing him.

the 911 movement is responsible for, thankfully, breaking me out of my "Democrats are better than Republicans" bullshit point of view.
What an idiot I have been all along thinking that there was EVER a difference.

If some of you guys want to join in into a 9/11-related discussion on one of the most popular websites on the Net to try to wake some people up, get yourself ready, and jump onboard...

http://digg.com/videos_educational/Video_Popular_Mechanics_editor_debunk...

Well the You Tube computer simulation is in line with the official version, and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But it's different. Liked the Mozart!

Christopher,

It looked to me like the designer of the models had to "take out" the support columns to initiate the collapse. Both in WTC7 and the two towers. Not just locally, but all of them, practically simultaneously, across an entire floor. That's not "official story" is it?

I invited mmmlink to post here.

Yeah I think that mmmlink wanted to show how much the column failure theory is ridicolous..

Here is my take on the democrat-vs-republican sham: Democracy - WWF Style.

Terrance,

Implosion World has massive government contracts all across the nation. Due you honestly feel that they would come out with a hit piece against the government for the sake of potential bankruptcy thta would ensue.
Your a big boy and should know better than that.

Thanks Terrance for this great piece of information. I like to hear all sides of an issue. There is a part in this report I can't get my brain around. It mentions the "squibs" were caused by air pressure. I have seen many clips that show the squibs 30 floors below the collapse zone and have an extremely explosive force. I don't see how debris and air could travel that far down.

clearly a computer model would show us all the error of our ways, yes?

The clip that comes to mind is the one they showed on Oprah of the guy who was running down the street with the people eating clouds chasing him. In that clip you can see a squib shoot out much too far down the tower to be air pressure.

"All of your silly conspiracy theories have been dismantled piece-by-piece."

See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth (Terrence's version) to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.

didn't we move to this thread to avoid the trolls?

Thanks for that terrence... I've been anxiously waiting for a statement from implosionworld for months.

Just noticed on the Scholars for 9/11 Truth homepage:

9 August 2006
Interview: David Ray Griffin with appear on
"The TuckerCarlson Show" on MSNBC
4-5 PM/ET (3-4 PM/CT; 1-2 PM/PT); repeats

Terrence... dismantle this ONE discrepancy.

Norman Mineta said he got to the PEOC by 9:20 and Dick Cheney was already there.

The 9/11 Report says that Dick Cheney arrived at the PEOC by 9:58.

Explain.

Jon Gold | Homepage | 08.09.06 - 3:33 pm | #

Unless, unless the words "no plane" or "explosives" are in your argument, there will not be a retort.

so those who complain that it melted through like a knife on butter, you must realize that it crashed into a lot of glass.

DHS - here's a shot of the 'glass' the planes crashed thru: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/docs/fig_2_7.jpg

and here's a video that gives an idea of how strong those planes really are (not certain if this is a 767/757): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3998892467657667670

thanks to mmmlink @ YouTube for those WTC models.

DRG on the mainstream tele. Tight.

let's try this one:

Terrence:
In Norman Mineta's explosive testimony he states that while no plane was in the bunker at 9:20 when he arrived, Dick Cheney already was. Care to SMASH?

:)

I hope someone will be recording David Ray Griffin on MSNBC... It's in less than half an hour...

Can someone put this on the homepage?

Wow, that poll result is crazy. Then we wonder why people can't see the truth. Sheesh!

Anonymous | 08.09.06 - 3:39 pm | #

Must be from the same lot that still thinks Iraq has WMDs

DRG on Tucker Carlson this afternoon!? BTW, I was just looking at the comments section at amazon.com for DRG's new book -- all positive except for one idiot (Terrence was that you?).

Another odd thing about the report Terrence posted is the collapse of WTC 7. In this report it states there were no reports of explossions. This conradicts a live radio interview on WINS in New York on 9/11, where a witness explains it as follows, "We heard what sounded like a CLAP OF THUNDER and turned around to see the windows popping out and what looked like a shockwave ripping through the building and uh, ya know, about a second later the bottom floor caved out and the building followed after that, and uh, we saw the building crash down all the way to the ground." Someone isn't telling the complete truth.

What about the claims that there was no seismic event to coincide with the WTC7 collapse? I believe WTC7 was broight down by CD, but is that claim true?

Anyone have a "catapulting the propaganda" clip? even audio?

Greatly appreciated..

Looking... looking... no response from Terrence. Proving once again, that NO ONE has dismantled all of our "silly conspiracy theories".

I fear the day is coming when The Jersey Girls will be on the campaign trail supporting Hillary Clinton"

I fear the same.

Do any of these familly members actually give a shit about the truth?

Anyone have a "catapulting the propaganda" clip? even audio?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050524-3.html#

I know: they're trying to remainn "credible" in the eyes of the bourgeois press, like Chomsky....

Hello!? Thermate!?

Time for ruckus.

thanks jon

I fear the day is coming when The Jersey Girls will be on the campaign trail supporting Hillary Clinton"

I fear the same.

Do any of these familly members actually give a shit about the truth?
Danse | 08.09.06 - 3:50 pm | #
didnt the Jersey Girls endorse Kerry? no offense to the family members, but that alone shows their ignorance.

Boy, the trolls really have come out in force today! I wonder if that's because the Big Lie is breaking down as evidenced by the stories last week in Vanity Fair, ABC, and the WaPost? You know, where even the establishment gatekeepers on the Kean-Zelikow Commission are now hinting that they're ready to let the military hang for 9/11?

I guess Rummy and the various generals and colonels involved are getting nervous and are directing their internet ops to renewed fighting of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

Of course they do have their moles in the media. Too bad Judith Miller isn't at the NY Times anymore, right boys? She could get front page headlines to reinforce the 9/11 if she were still around. Instead, you criminals have hacks like Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and Glen Beck on the payroll. They're doing their best, but 9/11 truth is too strong for them to beat back.

Just noticed on the Scholars for 9/11 Truth homepage:

9 August 2006
Interview: David Ray Griffin with appear on
"The TuckerCarlson Show" on MSNBC
4-5 PM/ET (3-4 PM/CT; 1-2 PM/PT); repeats
Shoestring | 08.09.06 - 3:32 pm | #
well holy shit. thats great. i wonder if Tucker will tell Griffin to leave the country too. jackass.

Can someone answer this question for me.

Why didn't Bush want to investigate 9/11?

cause his daddy and vice president were deeply involved.

Oh. My. God.

I'm sorry, but DRG?

That man can melt central steel columns!

Totally fucking AWESOME

What is the answer to that question? How can you possibly answer that in an acceptable, reassuring way?

Go Dave!

"Jon, what is your beef with displaying C.M"

I posted it already. I said you need Real Player to play it.

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/McKinney2.rm

When it came to the Iraq war, Carlson frequently used sophistry to undercut the arguments of war opponents who came on the show. For example, on the August 21, 2003, edition of Crossfire, he said, "If it was up to the U.N., Saddam Hussein would still be killing his own people."

Apparently Carlson has done an about-face on the Iraq war. On May 12, 2004, Carlson was quoted in The New York Observer saying the following about the Iraq war: "I think it's a total nightmare and disaster, and I'm ashamed that I went against my own instincts in supporting it." Yet on Crossfire that same day, Carlson had the temerity to criticize Senator John Kerry's (D-MA) statements on the Iraq war, when in fact it is Carlson who has flip-flopped. From the May 12 edition of Crossfire:

Kerry did vote for it, but then he opposed it. Now he wants to prolong it. What does John Kerry think about Iraq? Who knows. Who cares.

More here (near the bottom ,with links):
http://mediamatters.org/items/200406170002

www.j-archive.com/media/2004-12-10_J_23.jpg

ha!

oops!

http://www.j-archive.com/media/2004-12-10_J_23.jpg

ha!

copy/paste into browser.. sorry:
www.j-archive.com/media/2004-12-10_J_23.jpg

ok jon, sure.

But Cynthia has...911...Dyncorp...

Christ. Nevermind. it's not imporrtant.

Long live the demorats.

LOL Here's when Jon Stewart tore Carlson a new one;

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410160003

democrats and republicans?
just like the left and right pockets on the same pair of pants - one holds the wallet and the other the checkbook
---

Whats your fascination with the M$M??

Don't you know you are playing into their hands?

Jane and Joe Average KNOW ALREADY that they cannot trust the MSM. The trouble is that they have no alternative.

Join forces and provide a FUNNY, DAILY TV NEWS HOUR and videobomb.com it! and everyonehelp, please!

In order to FRIGHTEN OFF (and keep out!) the corporate ideologes and money-parties .. and because its a catchy name, lets call it:

ANARCHY TV

There are TWO areas ESSENTIAL:

1) PRODUCE VIDEO NEWS ITEMS
a) the actual clip
b) notes for broadcasters WITH FOOTNOTES TO PROVE VERACITY

2) HELP DISTRIBUTION TECHNOLOGY
a) One-click-Webpage-TV -- A BUTTON!
b) invent new distribution:
i)amateur TV transmitters for the neighborhood
ii) direct to mobile delivery (3G)
iii) video.google.com feed
iv) torrent/P2P www.p2ptv.com
v) Neighborhood CINEMA, shopwindows, project to walls/FM-transmit sound.

ANARCHY TV
ANTI OWNERSHIP TV

thats will be enough to keep the capitalists (and their evil logic) out of it.

Ownershipt is the KEY word. You'll find that there is, more than ever, the contrast between those who OWN and those who don't.

I mean REAL things. POWER, you know. Weapons, money, production facilities, propaganda facilities.

PRIVATE OWNERSHIP of common-good resources, leads to heart-break.
u2r2h

Can someone who has the USA version of the Naudet film tell me what this firefighter is saying in the clip below?

38 Seconds in to this clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y...related&search=

As the firefighter stands in the lobby he says "Alright, I want to use the lobby of Seven (WTC 7) as a ...." and the overdubbing cuts out what he says.

Thanks.

Can someone who has the USA version of the Naudet film tell me what this firefighter is saying in the clip below?

38 Seconds in to this clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWhYdzJ4YEw

As the firefighter stands in the lobby he says "Alright, I want to use the lobby of Seven (WTC 7) as a ...." and the overdubbing cuts out what he says.

Thanks.

^^^ correct link

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/07/answer_the_phon.html

justanidea, he says "Alright, I want to use the lobby of Seven as a triage"

"Can someone who has the USA version of the Naudet film tell me what this firefighter is saying in the clip below?"

The whole Naudet film "9/11" can be viewed here: http://www.jonhs.net/911/911.htm

CJ and JonH -

Thanks for the reply.

I see my comment was erased.

NOW who is the one displaying the same use of techniques you guys claim the government use?

I am glad you did. as I always thought you can always tell the true fruits of a movement by how they act to information that is counter to what they believe. maybe you will be burning books next that are anti-911 conspiracy theory.

Just a few comments on the models. I created them using ProE and have been working on them for about nine months now. I used a modeling program to produce the animation. They are to scale down to a mm based on drawings/literature from NIST and FEMA. There were many iterations. The original only had the upper floors. I was going to try and perform a Finite Element Analysis on fires bringing them down but found out quickly how big the model would become and that it would not demonstrate the collapse. I took the majority of my data from the NIST and FEMA reports but I also research old photographs of WTC 1, 2, and 7. NIST and FEMA were very careful to only show 2D drawings and illustrations because showing a realistic 3D model would make it even more difficult to explain fires causing the collapses (which after $20 million, is yet to be simulated). The most remarkable thing I noticed in 3D modeling is how much redundancy was put into the design of the towers (core columns, perimeter columns, and the trusses). My simulation was going to include the planes showing the damage, but it became clear that I would be using the planes as a diversion, like in the actual crash. I can show the openings were consistent with 767's though. I probably removed more of the columns from WTC #1 than I should, but the loads would have simply redistribued themselves and since the towers were built with so many factors of safety (5 is what I found in literature), I am confident office fires did not weaken the steel causing a sudden global collapse. I was also amazed on my final fly-by scene of WTC 1 (after the collapse of WTC 2) and on how little damage it appeared to sustain in the perimeter columns (the opening wasn't changed and I didn't include smoke which might have caused an optical illusion). My model only shows the effects of removing the core columns which is consistent with the videos of the collapses. If I had more time and computer power, I would like to further investigate the explosive aspects of the perimeter columns which would have been consistent with explosives in the trusses.

I also modeled WTC7 (in a different animation) and was also amazed how easy it would have been to remove the 18 core columns (in red) which was probably the cause of the collapse. NIST would have been better off saying the firefighters had the capability to set charges in three hours (to support Silverstein's confession) rather than produce a report explaining fires taking out base girders which was the most robust part of the building. I also created scale models of the pentagon crash but the most I can prove is the downing of lightpoles is consistent with a 757 wingspan, but is also consistent with a Global Hawk wingspan.

As for me, I have a BS and an MS in Mechanical Engineering. I have a Professional Engineer's license and have worked in construction. I created these simulations to push for a REAL independent investigation of 9-11. The next step is naturally building a scale model and either support or refute the simulation. But I don't have that type of budget.

Finally, if it were not for the free exchange of ideas on the internet and for the movie "In Plane Site" and "Loose Change 2nd Edition," I would have been still one of those that still believes the government's story which has yet to prove one fact or produce one piece of evidence. Also popular blog sites like this one and "youtube.com" help increase the distribution of simulations like mine and spread the word to reopen the 9-11 investigation. Thanks for watching.

mmmlink,

You should join ST911.org

http://st911.org

Thanks for your comments.

mmmlink,

You should join ST911.org

http://st911.org

Thanks for your comments.
reprehensor | Homepage | 08.11.06 - 5:20 pm | #

I agree, those simulations are stunning.

As an engineer myself, I agree with his findings. Good job.

mmmlink,

Really great animation. Thanks. I have three questions. First, do your videos simulate the structural response of the buildings (that is, are your models collapsing in accordance with physical principles or are they based on how the collapses looked)? Second, are you removing core columns manually (as input) all the way down? Third, would it be possible to use your models to simulate what would happen if nothing further was done to the buildings after "collapse ensued" (as the NIST report puts it)?

I've always wanted to a see a simulation of what would happen to the towers if all columns on all the damaged floors were simply removed and gravity was allowed to do the rest.

Best,
Thomas

It's time for our Engineers, our Firechiefs, our Arson Investigators, our Explosive Experts, Our Air Traffic Controlers, our Police Officers, our Reporters on the ground on and after Nine Eleven, our Forensic Experts, our Insurance Fraud Investigators, our Scientists, to put the crime scene back together.
Then we can prove/disprove just what 'really' happened on Sept 11 2001.
It's the only way to bring Justice for those who died. And, Closure to those who were left behind.