Dylan Avery to Debate Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman
dz Thu, 09/07/2006 - 12:12pm
Big news coming in from the Loose Change crew..
About time - loosechange911.com
Ladies and gentlemen, a drumroll...
Democracy Now with Amy Goodman, 8 AM, September 11th, 2006. I'll be on debating Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics, in studio, for broadcast on TV and radio.
How's that for a 1-2 punch?
Also of note, here are the international television stations which will be broadcasting LC2E on or near 9/11:
Planete France,
BNN Holland and Zembla Holland
VRT Belgium
TV2 Norway
TV4 Fakta Sweden
Canal Plus Poland
History Channel Australia
RTP Portugal
Exa TV Mexico
Noga TV Israel
Geo TV Pakistan
MBC Middle East
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ok. this is big news but
ok. this is big news but this could potentially be a trap. we all know how Amy Goodman feels about 9/11, which is, she basically doesnt. i hope Dylan is ready for an ambush. good luck man, make us proud.
breaking on cnn
The Arabic language TV network Al-Jazeera says it will show video of Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders as they planned the 9/11 terror attacks.
Perfect timing.
could be a long-prepared one
could be a long-prepared one by the Neocons. We all suspected they would do such things to crush 9/11 truth, like showing a 757 hit the Pentagon etc.
I can't wait to see WHICH Osama they have to offer. This could be big, really BIG
you guys are behind... the video is more of the same old crap
as has been discussed on the thread devoted to it. shows nothing, just a lot of terror razzle dazzle--the usual._
"Among the 'spider-man' skeptics are those who claim that no human can shoot web and stick to walls... They conveniently ignore the fact that he was bitten by a radioactive spider."
Daily Bugle editorial debunking the claims of spider-man deniers
get your talking points ready.
you have to think like them.
It's Davin, not David
Misspelling words or names makes you and us look stupid.
just covered it as i saw
just covered it as i saw it..
just updated ours, ill let dylan know as well. thanks.
Davin is a budding sociopath
Amy is cautious but not dishonest. Lets not forget Mike Malloy either who is not cautious and has no job. I do respect him much more for his courage.
I do NOT trust Amy Goodman...
Goodman has supported the official version of 9/11 for 5 years now! Goodman allowed a jerk to brazenly heckle David Ray Griffin the one time she allowed any truther to appear on her show! Goodman saw WTC-7 collapse in-person, and has never questioned it.
I do not trust Goodman whatsoever, and neither should anyone else if/until she finally allows some real 9/11 truth to be broadcast on her gatekeeping show!
How can anyone trust Amy
How can anyone trust Amy Goodman.
Here's her paymasters -
http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/chart.htm
Democracy Now is loosing audience because it is wilfully ignoring, (until now, & once in the past), a social & political phenomenon as huge as 9/11 Truth.
Amy is a Stooge, of that there can be no doubt.
There must be caution because Amy is a stooge, of that there can be no doubt. She has gone out of her way to discredit and ignore the truth movement.
Democracy Now has seen its audience shrink to insignificance; people know when they are being lied to. The truth movement at the same time has just grown exponentially. It follows that the controlled left, ergo its controllers (the NWO), is in crisis.
This is an interesting move, but using Davin Coburn is confusing. Using a proxy who is a man who has already had a major "truth spanking" at the hands of Charles Goyette, this is the unknown quantity. At the moment I can't fathom why they've brought the failed stooge (Coburn) out again.
Regardless it must be concluded that Amy and her controllers are attempting to do her best to ridicule and discredit the truth movement any way they can. Why ? Because Amy & Co. are too proud to have a 360-degree turn around.
"From a drop of water, a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagra without having seen or heard of one or the other. So it is that my name is Sherlock Holmes, it is my business to know what other people don't know"
Why is everything in italics?
Shut off the italics after you post.
someone didn't close a tag,
someone didn't close a tag, like this.
I'd consider that a bug in
I'd consider that a bug in the forum software. Nowadays forums usually only allow certain tags, and automatically closes any open tags at the end of posts (or refuses to accept malformed html).
Amy Goodman on 9/11 and all else
I agree Amy Goodman is less than she appears. She has a split personality that may have become somewhat corrupted by fame. On some issues she stands tall but on others not so. And even when she covers the right issues, she often has on the wrong guests who won't rock the boat too much, especially on sensitive issues like Israel where she'll have on Norman Finkelstein once in a great while and then pair him off against a pro-Israel flack who dominates the conversation so we hear too little from Finkelstein who should get all the time.
Today was a good example when she discussed an important issue - the Darfur crisis and had no one on to explain what it's all about and that US interests are central to it. Her segment was a waste, told me nothing and I finally turned it off.
Her "debates" and time-wasting clips of administration officials and others who have no place in our limited time block are also intolerable, and she should be condemned for it. Also wasting time too often with segments on lesser issues while ignoring more important ones.
I think Amy wants it both ways - to have one foot on side of what's right and other in the mainstream. Not good enough for me. Morality and principles can't be half-pregnant or half-baked. You either are or you're not - all of nothing and no in-between. I try my best to live by that.
Pacifica Radio does have a program without DN sins - KFPA's Flashpoints Radio, every weekday for an hour 5PM Pacific time - it's the best. Tune in and see. Hear it live on in its archives. I never miss it.
Steve Lendman
Flashpoints
I love it too, but you have to wonder why Dennis won't ask Ray McGovern about 9/11 when he has him on, like he did the other day. He's a good guy and a great journalist, but he's ignored 9/11 almost as much as the rest of Pacifica.
flashpoints
Amy has been terrible on 9/11, but Flashpoints has had David Ray Griffin on twice, and once for the whole hour (at least.) He's also had on Mike Ruppert. So he hasn't ignored 9/11, but he's got a full palette of issues he's dealing with...
I would Be Surprised if This Happened
I think Popular Mechanics will bail out. I don't think their up to the challenge.
Dylan needs to look both ways . . .
when he crosses the street . . . and please Dylan, don't get in any small private aircraft for god's sake!
They may "pull-it"...
They may just "pull-it"...and watch the building collapse.
Well, that would be the
Well, that would be the smartest thing to do.
I heard the Pop. Mechanics
I heard the Pop. Mechanics fellow on an arizona radio talk show (off 911podcasts), and it was so bad I was half in jubilation because his arguments were so pathetic, and half feeling sorry for him because he is either brainwashed beyond belief or unable to perform any critical thinking or defend arguments in any believable way. Oh, I would love to see this.
should have been someone else
Loose Change is great for all the exposure that it has given 9/11 Truth ideas. But I sure wish Amy Goodman would have picked a more "heavy-hitter" debater. No offense to Dylan, but I wish it was going to be DR Griffin. Or, for entertainment value, Alex Jones.
Though, at least Davin Coburn is not a heavy-hitter, so maybe it's fair. If Amy Goodman joins in, 2 against 1, that will be really slimey.
Didn't Democracy Now have
Didn't Democracy Now have Griffin on once? Wasn't that their one and only attempt to cover 9/11 alternative theories?
anyone remember?
on second thought
On second thought - I apologize to you, Dylan. We all should give you our full support. Go kick some ass. Fight the good fight!
Dylan
Can easily hold his own if given the chance to speak, of all the various news shows go you have to admit DN/Amy Goodman will let people speak without interruption.
However I say this will be pulled because PM knows they will be eaten alive.
if goyette a "agnostic" on 9/11 can trounce coburn
dylan will have a walk in the park he just needs to take the advice alex game to burmas today on the show, first thing out of the shoot demand equal time because it's going to be 2 on 1
Avery will have to refute this
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change
strange how it takes you
strange how it takes you guys so much text&explanation to "debunk" WTC7, when all it takes to show the fraud is the collapse-videoclip of WTC7. You might have success with people that never saw a) bombed buildings in WWII NOT collapsing, b) barbecue forks in a camp fire, NOT melting
And what about 5 and 6
Aerial shots of 5 and 6 show massive damage from Tower debris -- one basically has a huge crater in it. Both buildings burned as well. But guess what? No fall down and go boom in less than ten seconds. In fact, the clean-up guys had to "pull'em."
Tell us what you know
You guys think you know more than structural engineers? Or do you think all strucutral engineers are lying?
Please, let's have evidence not wild speculation.
funny stuff. i said the same
funny stuff. i said the same thing about the 9/11 Commission. lets have some evidence. like of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon for starters. why didnt the Commission mention WTC7 again? oversight? hahahahahaha
Huh?
You don't think Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? What was it?
huh? you buy the Commission
huh? you buy the Commission hook line and sinker? what do you get out of being here? im curious. is your life that empty? poor guy.
That's a pretty weak
That's a pretty weak debunking page, one of the weaker ones I've seen.
Dylan Avery - weakest of them all
Dylan Avery's film is incredibly naive. Do you actually fall for that stuff?
No, Avery won't have to refute that because they are strawmen...
Those are straw-man arguments. Boldfaced liars like yourself have deliberately misinterpreted & obfuscated truthers' allegations, and have then rebutted these distorted arguments.
Which ones?
Which ones are strawman arguments and why?
Good point Tim - this needs
Good point Tim - this needs emphasising and not just for tomorrow. Eyewitness reports especially - so easy to counter-argue.
Dylan
you might want to speak with Jim Hoffman, who has done alot of working debunking Popular Mechanics. Hoffman could probably give you tips on the B.S. arguments Coburn will make, and how to debunk them.
(Or you or Jason could read the new PM book?).
they play up the likelyhood
You don't need to read the book. They always play the same game: Nothing is really 'impossible', even WTC7 collapsing from fire. So what they do is they demonstrate this 'possibility', with 'someone said WTC7 looked bad' and 'fire can collapse buildings' when low and behold the likelyhood for their weird scenario is max. 5 Percent! and ours is 95 % !
In short, it looked 'as if' they had 'pulled it' because they DID 'pull it', NOT because of unprecedented conditions, never seen before, making it look....
Dylan, why not mention this too.... The Heroin Connection
"Just three weeks after Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi arrived on July 3, 2000 to attend the flight school at Huffman Aviation in Venice, FL., the owner of the flight school, Wallace J. Hilliard, had his Learjet surrounded by DEA agents with submachine guns on the runway of Orlando Executive Airport. Agents found 43 pounds of heroin, arrested everyone onboard, and confiscated the plane. Any honest prosecutor in the country would have instantly linked the huge heroin haul discovered on the flight school owner’s plane to Mohamed Atta’s arrival at his flight school, and understood that he was looking into the heart of a continuing criminal conspiracy." Hopsicker 09/06/06
No, only conspiracy-minded
No, only conspiracy-minded prosecutors would have done that.
I don't think so.
Jim Hoffman has been debunked himself. I haven't seen any credible arguments against PM.
says Anonymous.
says Anonymous. hahahahahahahaha
LOL
PM has not made even ONE credible statement to date.
lmao google yellow journalism
are you feelin lucky?
Heard that before
Hope they won't shit in there pants the night before.
Counter!
WTC7
ISI funding Atta
Molten Metal
etc..
you know the stuff that matters...
I would seriously prepare
I would seriously prepare for that Dylan in every way humanly possible. You will be going against a powerful force of symantecs and bait and switch. - just keep your cool, be calm and choose your words with precision and annunciate with conviction. And remember the burden of proof is on the government account not the other way around. Good luck and God speed.
This could be epic.
Dylan, I'm sure advice-givers are going to swarm around you, but please let me make one suggestion: that you hew relentlessly to the position that "We don't know what happened but here are the outright impossibilities of the official report." Don't let him try to make you offer your own narrative explanation about anything -- that was the government's job and they fucked it up, period. Because this guy was so thoroughly trounced by a basic common-sense question on the Goyette show (how'd they get sample dna to compare to dna from the alleged hijackers) I am sure that he will try very hard to lead you out of the realm of common sense and into anything he can get you to say that sounds "crazy." Don't let him. No need to talk about cell phones, Flight 93 at Cleveland, nada.
Yesterday another Popular Mechanics guy on the Thom Hartman show could not explain the collapse of WTC 7, and ended up concluding that "shit happens." Real scientific, real credible... not. Just nail them with the unanswered questions and remember, you don't have to provide ANY explanation of ANYTHING.
Do us proud, young'un. I'm sure you will.
Yup, I agree. It is not our
Yup, I agree. It is not our job to present theories. It is our job to debunk the official version and make them answer questions.
Casseia Has It Right
Dylan, that is the best possible advice anyone could give you. In fact, you might consider having someone practice with you, repeatedly trying to lead you into the area of conjecture in a mock debate. That way you will be ready for the real thing when Coburn tries to spring it on you.
Just remember that you may not get another chance like this.
Good luck!
you've got my word,
you've got my word, everyone. this show is about facts, not speculation, and that's how i've tried to carry myself for a while now. the fact that they can't even provide a satisfactory explanation for WTC7 is more than enough ammunition...and that's just first bullet in the chamber. :D
ask them if they believe in
ask them if they believe in magic passports and bandanas,hahahahah. good luck man.
avery will rip this idiot to
avery will rip this idiot to shreds--
they'll probably publicize the interview a whole bunch---but then quietly have the shill guy back off
to try to create the impression that there was a debate--
just like when hannity cowered on david ray griffin--
creampuffs
---------------------------
off topic---
yall need to go down in huge numbers to dumbya's speech on 9/10/06---
but dont bring any banners or any traditional protest materials
JUST HECKLE HIM MERCILESSLY!!!
personal insults-
yell out '911 was an inside job'
if 20 or 30 people were doing this all scattered in the crowd it would really screw up the whole event
AND YOU COULD LOOK THAT SLUG IN THE EYE AND KNOW ----
PSYCHIC VAMPIRIZE HIS ASS
>>yall need to go down in
>>yall need to go down in huge numbers to dumbya's speech on 9/10/06---
but dont bring any banners or any traditional protest materials<<
That is the dumbest thing I have read all day...
not dumb at all
he's talking about infiltrating...
if anyone brings a protest sign it will be confiscated.
hell anyone who remotely looks like a protestor will probably be removed from the area.
Or do what Medea Benjamin does
to infiltrate congressional hearings, state-of-the-union speeches, inaugurations, etc...
Paint your message on a bed sheet (or portion thereof) that can be folded/rolled under your clothes or wear a cover t-shirt over a message t-shirt and break them out at the appropriate time.
Oh, I like the shouting, er, heckling at his face method too. I'm sorry I won't be there to join in.
hell yeah... or just
hell yeah...
or just everybody go in there and BOOOOOOOOO!!
thats not what this is about it's not a protest it's SOLIDARITY
yeah, so quit with the provocaturing, we are trying to leave the immaturity to the stupid neocons on monday.
quack
youre a pussy
youre a pussy
Dylan, may I offer some suggestions?
First, I'm let me say I am excited for you. Now...
Hit 'em hard about the claims he made on Goyette's show regarding the DNA evidence used to identify the alleged hijackers from 9/11. He said that he would get back to Goyette regarding the source of the original DNA used to match and subsequently identify these men as the supposed terrorist. Use his own words against him. Nail him on this!
Also, please see if you can provide verifiable proof that several of the so-called hijackers are actually still alive. The BBC has reported on this previously, but Davin flat-out claimed that this was a false report. See if you can locate the original BBC reporter on this story, and get him to authenticate. Better yet, see if anyone has found one of these guys and can prove they are alive. This would be HUGE!!!
Also, ask Amy Goodman to comment on the video which purportedly shows her witnessing the controlled collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11. (Have you seen that?) In fact, I would use that specific terminology, "Controlled Collapse". They will most certainly deny that it was a "Controlled Demolition", but visual evidence alone is all that is needed to confirm that these buildings did IN FACT, collapse in a highly CONTROLLED manner. Especially WTC7.
Demand that they refer to our movement as the "9/11 Truth Movement". Flat out reject the label "conspiracy theorists" as it is a meaningless pejorative that says very little about who we are and what we represent. Control the language.
Lastly, I trust you will be filming the whole thing for possible inclusion in LC: Final Cut. Yes? Other than that...
Kick ass brother, and take names!
HoooAhhh!
Caution re: talking about DNA!!!
Hit 'em hard about the claims he made on Goyette's show regarding the DNA evidence used to identify the alleged hijackers from 9/11. He said that he would get back to Goyette regarding the source of the original DNA used to match and subsequently identify these men as the supposed terrorist. Use his own words against him. Nail him on this!
Be careful about DNA questions! I have heard that a possible retort for where the "terrorists" original DNA samples were obtained was from their hotel rooms or from the cars they drove!
(My UNANSWERABLE DNA question is how in the hell could they possibly have IDed 63 of 64 passengers on flight AA-77 that slammed the Pentagon at 530 mph??? No seats, no luggage, no airplane, yet DNA was collected for 63 of 64 passengers! NO WAY!!! But this may still be over most peoples' heads at this time.
This would be an amazing feat. of CSI work
Didn't we see a list of hijackers within the first few days?
Moreover, men sharing rooms, leaving hair samples behind. Who is who? How can you prove that without a sample of known and legitimate provenance?
I know. Hotel rooms, rental cars, very transient...
I know. Hotel rooms, rented cars, have many different people in/out of them every day or two. How could you get reliable DNA from these situations???
Hey Chris....
How about the Heroin connection?
Shouldn't we be asking our representatives, like Dylan, to be up on this evidence?
Wallace Hilliard and Huffman Aviation need to be reported. Hilliard's connection to Atta and drug trafficking is a crucial and solid link that could expose the CIA relationship to 9/11.
believe you me, i'm
believe you me, i'm listening to every single one of your criticisms. this is a huge opportunity, and i'm going to do my damndest to prepare for it. we've already got an arsenal of things against Popular Mechanics themselves, the article nonwithstanding. and their basic claims in their new book are laughable at best.
let's see if davin even shows up for this one first. :D
as for that internet detectives site...wow. some people really need a new hobby.
Dylan, get verified.
You don't want some shill ripping your name.
Yes, I believe shills have
Yes, I believe shills have acted as imposters here on a few occassions.
I kinda pity the kid...
This Davin guy doesn't know what he's in for! LOL!
I would think that the higher-ups at PM have coached him carefully to push certain angles and avoid others altogether. Make sure you do the same!
There is so much that they haven't explained – stick them with the burden of proof and treat it like a trial. You don't have to give away theories, you just have to push for reasonable answers and then tear apart what they offer as REASONABLE.
We're all very proud of you, Dylan. Fight the good fight and make us all proud!
higher-ups at PM
I get the impression that the higher-ups at PM see our point of view as a complete joke. Why else would they have this Davin-Twit as their spokesperson? If they took this seriously, they'd have their senior managing editor on the front line, not Davin Colburn. This plays in our favor, fortunately, as we saw with Goyette.
Mom Chertoff?
Here's one to check: What is the source for the claim that Popular Mechanic Chertoff's mom said that he was cousins with Michael Chertoff?
I've asked that a few times here, but no answer yet.
Chertoff's mom
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist – the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176
Davin A No Show?
Dylan I don't think Davin will show. Im sure he's more intimidated by you than he will ever admit. There is no doubt in my mind you will win this debate. Expect the "where did all the people on Flight 77 go if it didn't hit the pentagon" question. They(Davin and Goodman) will most likely focus on that question. But good luck buddy. Im really looking foward to this.
Dylan, I hope you know this part of the story....
"Just three weeks after Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi arrived on July 3, 2000 to attend the flight school at Huffman Aviation in Venice, FL., the owner of the flight school, Wallace J. Hilliard, had his Learjet surrounded by DEA agents with submachine guns on the runway of Orlando Executive Airport. Agents found 43 pounds of heroin, arrested everyone onboard, and confiscated the plane. Any honest prosecutor in the country would have instantly linked the huge heroin haul discovered on the flight school owner’s plane to Mohamed Atta’s arrival at his flight school, and understood that he was looking into the heart of a continuing criminal conspiracy." Hopsicker 09/06/06
If you want to have some
If you want to have some fun, work the left gatekeeper phenomenon into your arguments. (It'll help if you memorize a list of them.) If my hunch is correct, Amy and other left gatekeepers are more concerned about not talking about THAT, than 911.
I Can't Keep Up
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12474
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi
A Word Of Advice...
Take me with you. ;) Just kidding. Good luck.
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi
Give 'em enough
Give 'em enough rope.
Remember Dylan that YOU do not have to speak - "Truth to Power".
Speaking 'Truth to Power' is a waste of time. The powers that be already know the truth, it is their conviction that power trumps truth. Therefore YOUR project must be to speak truth to the powerless, because strength of numbers armed with truth will always trump power.
God Speed young man!
We're all behind you.
Very cool...
I like that one, bcs.
Excellent mental armor to absorb.
CNN right now
CNN is airing 'Breaking News' that Al-Jazeera has released a VIDEOTAPE showing Bin Laden, et al, PLANNING THE 9/11 ATTACKS. They showed a guy who certainly does look like OBL with a bunch of other dark-skinned guys scrambling around a rocky hillside.
the ABC docudrama, Bush's speech yesterday regarding the secret prisons, and now this! holy christ the propaganda is coming in waves now. we need to get out of our little Movement echo chamber and figure out how to respond to all of this...
they just removed it again.
they just removed it again. ?
senators want bin Laden task force
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/09/07/news/state/120406.txt
I don't see it..where?
Fox news mentions it in their breaking news banner, but that's all.
Wouldn't it be funny if they find it to be a fake or something.
New Qaeda audio tape today
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2405758
Dylan...
One point I'd like you to bring up if you could... something I'm sure their book doesn't cover.
Why is it acceptable that a man who is an expert at creating "public myths" was put in charge of the 9/11 Commission?
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi
a la
Philip Zelikow.
exactly, great point, just
exactly, great point, just give them Zelikows wikipedia biography, that alone could have him convicted in a court of law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_D._Zelikow
Prof. Zelikow's area of academic expertise is the creation and maintenance of, in his words, “public myths” or “public presumptions,” which he defines as “beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community." In his academic work and elsewhere he has taken a special interest in what he has called “‘searing’ or ‘molding’ events [that] take on ‘transcendent’ importance and, therefore, retain their power even as the experiencing generation passes from the scene. In the United States, beliefs about the formation of the nation and the Constitution remain powerful today, as do beliefs about slavery and the Civil War. World War II, Vietnam, and the civil rights struggle are more recent examples.” He has noted that “a history’s narrative power is typically linked to how readers relate to the actions of individuals in the history; if readers cannot make a connection to their own lives, then a history may fail to engage them at all” ("Thinking about Political History," Miller Center Report [Winter 1999], pp. 5-7).
In the November-December 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs, he co-authored an article entitled “Catastrophic Terrorism,” in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded, “the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America’s fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or U.S. counterattacks. Belatedly, Americans would judge their leaders negligent for not addressing terrorism more urgently.”
wow. what foresight Mr. Zelikow.
Here's one of Popular Mechanics claims debunked
Here's something Dylan might want to refer to in the debate. In their "9/11: Debunking the Myths" article, Popular Mechanics claimed, "In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999."
Yet this is very strange, because a 1994 report by the US General Accounting Office said: "Overall, during the past 4 years, NORAD's alert fighters took off to intercept aircraft (referred to as scrambled) 1,518 times, or an average of 15 times per site per year. Of these incidents, the number of suspected drug smuggling aircraft averaged one per site, or less than 7 percent of all of the alert sites' total activity. The remaining activity generally involved visually inspecting unidentified aircraft and assisting aircraft in distress."
This report is available here: http://www.fas.org/man/gao/gao9476.htm
Or a PDF version here: http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat3/151250.pdf
So if NORAD's alert fighters took off 1,518 times over four years, this averages approximately once per day, rather than once every ten years, as Popular Mechanics claimed. According to this report, 93 per cent of scrambles involved "visually inspecting unidentified aircraft and assisting aircraft in distress." So the aircraft must have been intercepted in order for this to be possible.
Nice...
Can you please go post that info in my "NORAD's Response On 9/11" thread? Thanks.
Overall, during the past 4 years, NORAD’S alert fighters took off to intercept aircraft (referred to as scrambled)1,518 times, or an average of 15 times per site per year.
Of these incidents, the number of suspected drug smuggling aircraft averaged one per site, or less than 7 percent of all of the alert sites’ total activity? The remaining activity generally involved visually inspecting unidentified aircraft and assisting aircraft in distress.
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi
Here it is...
NORAD's Response On 9/11
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi
There you go!
Done!
1994 GAO Report on NORAD: Be Careful....
Be careful how you use this information. First, it is a 1994 report. Second, significant base closures, budget cuts, mission changes etc. surely occurred in the 7-year gap. Thirdly, the report itself notes another report that says that the military role in drug interdiction wasn't worth the expense. Fourth, whatever interceptors there were were mostly occupied in the war games, though there still is clear rationale for asking questions re: the response, the communications, etc.
Though this information ius surely difficult to come by, I would rather know the details of the technological internal air-space surveillance capabilities. This also adds some illumination to the evacuation of the NRO office.
Dylan you will have to be
Dylan you will have to be very well prepared, debating on tv is very very diffcult even though on democracy now you will have time to speak freely. don't raise your voice, speak clearly, even if the PM guy tries to make you look like a fonny, you have plenty of element to make him look bad.
This could be a HUGE opportunity, I hear democracy now is quite popular in the US, maybe i'm wrong (i regulary watch it from france).
A french supporter.
Operation Northwoods in Yahoo
Send this link to everyone you know.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/prweb/20060907/bs_prweb/prweb43...
Good luck to you Dylan!! Rock his world!
good god the damns are breaking EVERYWHERE
yeah
A few words on Operation Northwoods?
You may want to get in a few words on Operation Northwoods to demonstrate false-flags & how evil & corrupt gov't really is.
The Stage Is Set, Come Out Swinging!
It's about time and great news. Good luck my friend, this is your moment to be heard, the world will be watching and listening. The facts and evidence can and will indict these traitors. There's millions of people who believe in you, make us proud! FACTS! FACTS! FACTS!
We need a thread on the new
We need a thread on the new "Osama meeting with the 911 hijackers" tape.
first guess
just read the first info at foxnews. It seems they have an old pre 9/11 video of osama (real) but misleading messages about 9/11 "hijackers" and "attacks" displayed to help the viewer 'understand'
Dylan~
Awesomeness! I'm really excited to see how this is gonna turn out. I think you'll do great as long as you keep your cool, keep that poker face on!
One suggestion, if I may:
Get in contact with Dr. Griffin. Because he is the BEST Truth spokesperson out there. I'm sure he would be happy to help you prepare.
Good luck!
I've often thought, that
I've often thought, that when prominent 911 Truthers with websites like AJones, AveryCo etc get on the radio or TV, and manage to make some bullet points, they should point listeners to their site early and often.
But here's the rub, waiting at the site is a prominent banner at the top, saying "Attention Democracy Now Listeners:" and that should link to a page with the MP3 of the show, as well as links (articles, audio/video clips etc)substantiating all the bullet points which the Truther was able to work in during the show. Also link to some of the past post-mortem articles like the ones when DR Griffin was ambushed on Dem. Now., and/or general links to "Left Gatekeeper" articles.
This is the sort of OUTREACH which will bring in new peeps to the movement-- peeps who were intrigued by the show, but were effectively gate-kept re 911 prior to hearing the show.
Here's from FTW's Carolyn
Here's from FTW's Carolyn Baker re Goodman,
The Empress Has No Clothes
also an oilempire.us article critical of DR Griffin's ambush in his DN appearance,
Democracy When? Amy Goodman's not-so-good coverage of 9/11
Wargames...
Wargames, Sibel, Able Danger, General Ahmad and his 100K to Atta, 9/11 Commission now admitting NORAD lied so bad they wanted a Justice Department investigation. Pound those points home.
A couple of ideas for Dylan...
Maybe you could bring some photographs of the molten metal being pulled from ground zero weeks after 9/11 and see if they will play the video of WTC 7 coming down. I realize it's a radio show first but they do make good use of the video stream for showing images and video clips when people are talking.
Give 'em hell.
I wish I still had Dish Network so I could watch it live and in high quality. :(
To Dylan
Go on the attack. Have them prove the official story. Don't be defensive. Ask them how WTC7 came down. Ask them how Osama got NORAD to stand down. Put them always on the defensive. The fact that 9/11 was home grown is self evident. Let them make fools out of themselves and then laugh at them!
This is it! Finally after boycotting amy for so long
I just had to post today becuase I am very isolated out here, little old keyboard warrior, talking to Jim Fetzer via email and actually getting a reply. I've been dying to get to Amy goodman for years, I have called the local station to tell them over and over again the reason I won't give them money is becuase of Amy Goodman's boycott of 911! Maybe it finally sunk in it's costing them money, but it's the public money that keeps them going. After monday I may actually have to give them some.
Wish I could go to NY really thought hard about it, knew I should have gone, but so much moneya nd danger, well I always said they were never gonna do anything different inuless we fought them in the streets like we had to do during Vietnam.
The situation today is much, much , worse and if we don't find a way to organize locally we're srewed. I live in Houston a city of 5 million and I can't find or start a group that will make any difference. Sure could use some feedback.
Goodman seems to accept the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, Bush...
One reason why there are few anti-war, anti-Patriot Act, and impeach-Bush groups is because gatekeepers like Goodman, Chomsky, & others have been basically weak/silent about these things too, just like they have promoted the 9/11 "official story."
Why isn't Goodman helping stop the illegal wars & impeach Bush??? I think she's really a CIA asset, just like Chomsky & MIT!
Confession of Mass Murder with Conclusive Proof!
Dylan,
Here's a signed confession for all those would say our government wouldn't kill innocent Americans.
"I'm glad to reassure the people of New York that their air is safe to breathe."
EPA Chief Christine Todd Whitman
Proof
DOCTORS' SHOCKING PROOF: 7 OF 10
RESCUERS SUFFERED LUNG DAMAGE AFTER WTC
COLLAPSE
By CARL CAMPANILE and DAVID SEIFMAN
GRIM STATS: 70 percent of WTC responders had new respiratory ailments or pre-existing ailments that got worse. Photo: N.Y. Post: Matthew McDermott GRIM STATS: 70 percent of WTC responders had new respiratory ailments or pre-existing ailments that got worse.
Photo: N.Y. Post: Matthew McDermott
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September 6, 2006 -- A staggering 70 percent of emergency workers at Ground Zero developed new or worsening respiratory problems from breathing highly toxic air, according to a grim health study announced yesterday.
Mount Sinai Medical Center doctors - who said the study provides conclusive proof that the WTC site caused illnesses - also found 61 percent of first responders and cleanup workers had no health problems before 9/11 and became ill after working downtown.
Another 9 percent had pre-existing health ailments - such as asthma - but became sicker from working at or near the collapsed trade centers.
One-third had "abnormal" lung capacity - more than double the national rate. And the number of workers who came down with pneumonia also increased significantly, the report said.
Mount Sinai officials called the findings grim, and predicted that many workers will struggle with lifetimes illnesses.
Some will likely develop deadly lung diseases like asbestosis.
"There should no longer be any doubt about the health effects of the World Trade Center. Our patients are sick," said Dr. Robin Herbert, co-director of the hospital's unit that has monitored and treated 16,000 responders.
"Our patients are very, very highly exposed, and are likely to suffer health consequences for the rest of their lives."
The persistent respiratory illnesses - and expected wave of cancers in the years to come - should come as no surprise, said Philip Landrigan, Mount Sinai's head of community and preventive medicine.
"What these people inhaled was extremely toxic. It was pulverized dust. It was like Drano. It penetrated deep in the lungs, deep in the sinus cavities," he said, adding that that "trillions upon trillions of shards of glass" were also ingested.
"It's very logical to project long-term disease," he added.
Mount Sinai is now tracking cancer and other diseases that develop among workers.
The Mount Sinai study comes on the heels of mounting criticism that city, state and federal politicians haven't done enough to treat and provide medical coverage to sick Ground Zero workers.
The press event at Mount Sinai took on a politicized tone.
Sitting on the dais during the release of the scientific findings were Sen. Hillary Clinton, and Reps. Carolyn Maloney and Jerrold Nadler - all Democrats and frequent critics of the White House.
Yesterday, they all teed off on the Bush administration for resisting helping 9/11 "heroes" and for saying the air was safe shortly after the attacks.
"It was obvious that the air was hard to see through, let alone hard to breathe," Clinton said. "Our government was not telling us the truth."
John Howard, the Bush administration's 9/11 health czar, was also present.
He didn't respond to the attacks against the administration, but called the findings "extremely important."
At City Hall, Mayor Bloomberg announced yesterday that he's allocating $37.5 million over five years to help World Trade Center responders deal with their health problems - although he questioned the link between Ground Zero air and illnesses.
"I haven't seen the study. But I don't believe you can say specifically a particular problem came from this particular [thing]," the mayor said.
Bloomberg provided $16 million to expand a WTC treatment program at Bellevue Hospital that was established in August 2005 with a $2.4 million, two-year grant from the American Red Cross.
Officials said the added funds would allow the program - which has a one- to two-month backlog for routine appointments - to treat 6,000 patients for free over five years.
Bloomberg also set aside $21.6 million so the Health Department could increase the unit assigned to investigate WTC health issues from seven to 20 employees.
But the mayor insisted his actions - coming just days before the fifth anniversary of the terrorist attack - weren't an admission that more should have been done earlier.
"A lot of data is just coming, in terms of damage or symptoms that people have," Bloomberg said.
Lawyers representing 6,000 sick workers in a class-action suit against the city said Mount Sinai and City Hall are years behind the curve in diagnosing how sick people are.
The plaintiffs' legal team claims that nearly 400 Ground Zero workers have cancer and more than 50 others have died from WTC-related illnesses.
"I have clients with kidney disease, leukemia, liver disease. The people are getting sicker," said lawyer David Worby.
"They're tracking people with a cough. I'm tracking people who are dying."
carl.campanile@nypost.com
Published on Saturday, August 23, 2003 by the Long Island, NY Newsday
EPA Misled Public on 9/11 Pollution
White House ordered false assurances on air quality, report says
by Laurie Garrett
Simple logical fallacy
New Yorkers in general, your air is safe. Workers on the Pile, wear respirators. This was the official EPA line. Not all New Yorkers were working the Pile, but all Pile workers (just about) have ended up with respiratory problems. Whitman's comments were talking about the air in NY in general, not on the pile. Granted, some pile workers did get confused and/or had no access to respirators, and some of that blame lies with the EPA and Whitman, although of course they are not jackbooted environment police who can make you do anything.
I just hope the show's still
I just hope the show's still on by 9/11/06, and we're not all living in a new "Post 9/9 World".
FalseFlagNews has highlighted the unusual confluence of massive terror drills between today 9/7 and Saturday 9/9, involving Detroit, Chicago, Wisconsin and Virginia among others, see the site above.
The 3/11/04 Madrid train bombings were 911 days after 9/11/01.
I haven't personally verified the number of days, but I just heard on Alex Jones, a caller claim that Saturday 9/9/06 is 911 days after 3/11/04.
Good job Jason Bermas on AJ's show today, AJ was quite excited by the Democracy Now appearance, and handed out lots of advice. I say we get THE BULLDOG WITH THE BULLHORN on Democracy Now!
Also note that FalseFlagNews webmaster Dan Abrahamson has a daily show on RBN beginning this week, 2-3 shows in the archive you can listen to now.
Uh Oh
I just checked the math and you're right 9/9/06 is 911 days after Madrid train bombings. Scary.
Ghost Troop
Yes, there are lots of weird numbers associated with 911. Ghost Troop has been running this numbers analysis for a couple of years now based on US mil intel strategies for cracking the KGB use of coded messages in their mass media during the cold war. Captain Eric May has been very active on the infowar front interdicting several 911-2B setups and you can check out his latest red alert here.
serial killers by numbers
if any day that would be a braggard that would be the day.
it also easliy could represent 06/06/06
let's hope they aren't that brazen.
I wouldn't worry about
I wouldn't worry about Dylan, he'll do fine. I'm guessing they are bringing Dylan in thinking he's just some dumb kid who they'll be able to push around.
Guess again, Dylan's been eating, drinking, and sleeping this stuff for years and hard at work on the Final Cut. I'm sure all the facts are fresh in his mind. Go get em Dylan!!!
The facts aren't on his side.
Dylan Avery isn't taken seriously because he got all the facts wrong. You should watch his film before commenting.
Dylan, When you talk about
Dylan,
When you talk about WTC7, remind them the Secret Service had an office there with a ringside seat at 8:46 and a direct link to the FAA and Bush's detail in Florida.
Remind them the Secret Service failed to perform its most basic protective function for the President for at least a half hour at a predisclosed public location (a recent book on the Secret Service is covering this up, claiming Bush learned of the attacks at 9:30!).
Remind them that Bush twice claimed to have seen the WTC1 hit live before entering the Booker classroom.
Ask them why the "indestructible" WTC black boxes were officially never found (not even in pieces), when an NTSB insider says they were.
Remind them of the blacked-out Convar WTC hard-drive data recovery investigation reported by Reuters and CNN in December '01 as indicating massive money transfers (at least $100 million)through WTC computers immediately prior to and concurrent with the attacks. Ask them if the FBI ever identified the source of those transfers.
I promise these questions will stump them.
And if you have to discuss holes in the Pentagon, make them explain why the exit hole looks exactly like the result of an explosive "wall breaching kit" (cordite). Russel Pickering's site is solid on this.
Go outside their comfort zone.
Good Hunting!
Please please please, when
Please please please, when this airs, someone capture it and get it up onto Google Video, Youtube, Yahoo Video and iFilm. This is too important to just read about.
Amy Goodman is praying that
Amy Goodman is praying that this PM fool destroys Dylan so that people will stop calling her a gatekeeper.
So Dylan, are you feeling the love?
We are behind you 100%! Give 'em hell!!
Perhaps you can get in a plug for www.911blogger.com?
The thing I don't understand
The thing I don't understand is, Amy Goodman is scheduled to be at Cooper Union on the morning of 9/11/06 for a book signing event for her new book. What's the story with this?
The book signing event and
The book signing event and reception at Cooper Union, is in the evening. Reception and dinner ($100) starts at 5;30, the event starts at 7;30.($15). I bought tickets for the reception so I could bring some 911 truth directly to the Gate keepers. I hope others will join me!!!!. I plan to talk openly about 911 with the guests and hosts and hopefully film all of the encounters. I need some help so if anyone is interested.....let me know. Dylan's appearence that morning ( no matter how it goes) will be a great way to bring up facts about 911.
No way
Dylan Avery has been debunked numerous times. It's kind of funny that anyone takes him seriously.
It's funny how you say
It's funny how you say "Dylan Avery has been debunked". Are we talking about a person or about an issue? Interesting how you government apologists are always attacking the messanger instead of the message. It's ok though, you're still going to lose...I promise.
Dylan, Don't forget to mention building 7.
In fact make it the center of your arguement. Everytime they start spewing propaganda keep refocusing your arguemnt on WTC 7.
BTW, if you lose/mess up this debate I'm removing you from my friends list on Myspace. lol
Well Dylan
You better bring your A game and come at them fast and furious and make sure you hammer them with WTC 7 and Norad
If the PM guy doesn't show
If the PM guy doesn't show just stick around and straighten out Amy. Maybe she's reaching out and really wants an intervention? Right. Nice thought, though.
I just found this ironic piece from DN! sometimes co-host Juan Gonzalez: Clearing the Air with the Truth
After nearly five years of lies from top city and federal officials about the health dangers from the toxic dust released by the World Trade Center collapse, the truth has finally begun to emerge.
They lied about the safety of the air but not what caused it. Got it.
Looks like our campaign
Looks like our campaign aginst the gatekeepers worked! Well done everyone.
These people are now feeling the heat. Cockburn just published a major attack piece in The Nation, which hopefully David Ray Griffin will respond to.
I say hit em with the FBI informant who lived with one of the "hijackers", the put-options, the absurdity of the evidence trail, and the NRO drill.
Also, this pm shill may have a trick up his sleeve, so be prepared.
Good luck Dylan. We're all rooting for you.
Why was Anthrax investigation ended? Why were NeoCons...
Why was Anthrax investigation ended once it was determined it was an U.S. military strain of the bacteria???
Why were prominent NeoCons taking Cipro weeks before the Anthrax letters were sent???
Why were the Anthrax letters sent to Democrats holding out against the Patriot Act; and to an obscure editor who published photos of the Bush twins drunk (he died, btw)???
WTC7 25% scooped out
When Davin says that WTC 7 was 25% scooped out, respond with the telephone pole analogy. Take a telephone pole place as much weight as is possible on it's top and start cutting away, see if you can get the pole to collapse straight down on it's self. It won't. Then mention that a steel building is stronger than wood. The scooped out building will not collapse on it's self either. It will fall over. Also mention that NIST said the tanks of diesel fuel were undamaged.
Exactly. Even if the
Exactly. Even if the photographic evidence Popular Mechanics claims to have seen really exists, to claim as Goyette did that would go a long way to explaining the complete symmetrical collapse of the W7TC is absurd. Its important rhetorically to hammer on the ABSURDITY, the physical IMPOSSIBILITY of such a collapse under these circumstances. Anybody who supports the collapse theory must, if they're not simply agents of disinformation, be entirely incapable of imaginatively reconstructing the event because they've never taken enough notice of the basic mechanics of the physical world to have any intuitions about what might happen in such a scenario. Because its extraordinarily unlikely that the staff of a mechanics magazine have no grasp of the gross, common sense physics required to make an absurdity out of the official story, the only possible conclusion is that they're deliberately aiding the coverup one of the greatest crimes in history.
The other thing that bugs me, incidentally, is that people still talk everywhere about molten STEEL, when the pools of molten metal were in fact, if the thermate hypothesis is to be believed, molten IRON, this being one of the products of the thermate reaction. Its important to get clear on this point.
Relax and enjoy yourself, Dylan. The truth is on your side. Listen to the Kevin Barrett interview by Jessica McBride if you haven't already. In every word you can hear Kevin's unshakeable faith that however powerful the forces of darkness, the power of truth is greater. As the great Frank Black once put it: if man is five, then the devil is six; and if the devil is six then GOD IS SEVEN...
premises of debate
A couple of points of advice for Dylan's debate on Dem Now:
1) Challenge the premises of the debate itself. What I mean is that by Amy using a Popular Mechanics guy as the defender of the official story, you're being invited to discuss mechanics, engineering, etc. In these circumstances, it's already a losing battle, because whatever proof you might bring up, the audience will accept what the Pop Mech guy says, 'cause after all they're pros and you're "just" an amateur filmmaker, a college student.
No, the truth about 9/11 is much bigger than that, and here I have to put in a word for the serious investigators of 9/11, who are studiously avoided by the media: Chossudovsky, Ruppert, Catherine Austin Fitts, Peter Dale Scott, Nafeez Ahmed, Webster Tarpley and some others. If they try to limit you to talking about your film, I would say that all the people who report explosions just speaks for itself - for example - and people should see Loose Change.
2) Bring the debate over to a clear terrain that's beyond the PM guy's expertise. Focus on things that don't require judging from a video, because a debate in words lends itself to ideas better than simply saying "hey, look at this video with the squibs" etc. Examples:
a) Stand-down of US Air Force against standard op procedures, shifting explanations of why, each implausible.
b) Long history of CIA/"Al-Qaeda" collaboration and use of jihadis to serve geopol interests (this also helps combat yesterday's Osama video): Afghan., Balkans (all the way up to a few weeks before 9/11 in Macedonia - check out Chossudovsky for this), Central Asia
c) Long history of false flag ops, all
calculated to serve as pretexts for war. Start with real cases: Mexican war, Maine, Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Tonkin, and only then Northwoods.
d) Bin Laden as patsy
-Bush family ties
-Repeated refusal to capture him before and after 9/11
-Closure of CIA "Bin Laden squad" this summer.
-FBI wanted poster doesn't mention 9/11
- Statements by Bush and others about Bin Laden not being important, or even better to let him stay free (Buzzy Krongard in London Times)
e) Massive foreknowledge from put options, warnings from foreign governments, FBI agents with investigations squashed, etc.
f) No one in US gov't bureaucracy lost jobs or disciplined for 9/11 - this is huge.
g) Bush in public place during attacks.
h) Huge oil and arms interests served by "war on terror" and stoking up of fear.
With all the above, who needs to talk about physical evidence, the Pentagon or even the Towers? That's a diversion, because a-h above already gives us an open and shut case for official complicity.
3) Don't get trapped in trying to offer a complete, well-rounded theory of exactly what happened or try to answer things we can't really know - what happened to flight 77 then - but instead insist that the evidence shows the official story is false, and that it also shows significant official complicity, the exact configuration of which needs to be determined by further investigation.
Seems to me that this is the forest that the Pop Mech guy simply CANNOT rebut and that's easy to understand - don't have to debate the melting point of steel, etc- so don't get bogged down in the trees, even if they're two 110-story towers and that 47-story thingy they won't talk about.
Great work James
I would add - don't get trapped into talking about the film in a medium where the film cannot be shown. Just tell people to watch it themselves, and proceed to the kind of stuff that James points, that the shill will not be able to answer. (Though he's probably reading this very thread...)
I don't agree. However
I don't agree. However crucial the wealth of circumstantial evidence, the physical evidence is more definitive. There's no reason that Dylan should feel intimidated in any way by this guy's knowledge of mechanics. Its not necessary to have a physics degree to recognize the absurdity of the official line. All you need are the common sense folk physical intuitions that any reasonably intelligent person can call on if they make the required imaginative effort. If Popular Mechanics had produced a series of technical arguments and equations purporting to prove that symmetrical collapse was to be expected, then we'd be moving into the realm of expert knowledge, and we'd need a structural engineer to refute the purported proof. But Popular Mechanics is just rolling out the same patently ridiculous arguments as all the other official liners. The preconditions they gesture towards don't go anywhere even close to making sense of total symmetrical collapse. I don't imagine he'll make this argument, but if this guy Davin does say: "Dylan you know nothing about mechanics so you're unqualified to speak about this," Dylan should say: "You're asking me to believe on your AUTHORITY as a supposed expert, even though you've put no technical arguments on the table, something that all my common sense intuitions show me to be absurd. That is a BLATANT misuse of the argument from authority. Until and unless we reach the point where you have recourse to mathematics and physical equations that are beyond my competance in order to prove that such an anomaly was to be expected, I'm every bit as competant as you to assess the relative likelihood of our two competing explanations for total symmetrical collapse. Until that time, your supposed expertise is irrelevant, so please don't mention it."
Newton's Laws, the basis of mechanics, are a formalization of our experience of the NORMAL, highly PREDICTABLE behaviour of physical objects acted on by forces of momentum and gravitation. They are a formalization of the sort of expectations that everyone learns to have about how objects move around and interact. To point to a gross ANOMALY, a situation that challenges all our physical expectations, and to say "Hey, I'm an expert on Newton's Laws. You can take my word for it that even though it looks impossible to you that was actually what we should have expected to happen," would be perverse to say the very least!
25% of WTC-7 scooped-out is a boldfaced lie!
I've spent many hours examining WTC-7 videos & photos. To say that 25% of that building was "scooped-out" (whatever the hell that means) is a boldfaced lie! WTC-7 had very minor, superficial damage and a few small, scattered (arson?) fires inside! It was imploded in a controlled demolition!!! Just ask Larry "pull-it" Silverstein.
fyi, it's gonna be David
fyi, it's gonna be David Dunbar, not Davin Coburn.
here's my laundry list so far:
1) John O'Neill's investigation into the bin ladens being shut down months before 9/11, and his new job at the WTC.
2) Able Danger
3) The Mineta Testimony (which I'll have on DVD along with several clips, and a handheld DVD player...no "technical snafus" this time like Tucker Carlson pulled)
4) WTC7, duh. :D
5) a print-out of a couple hundred smoking guns reported by the mainstream media...
How about Operation Northwoods?
Operation Northwoods is an actual de-classified false-flag attack that was going to involve swapped airplanes, imposter passengers, and a number of dead Americans! JFK refused to sign-off on it, and then he was dead too. I think this is worth a mention, IMO.
if they ask me where the
if they ask me where the people are, Northwoods is my first response.
Great List - can I add one to it?
Pakistani ISI funding of Atta (through Omar Sheikh). This could tie into the Able Danger blackout.
Sorry, I can't resist, one more. Bin Laden not being indicted for 9/11. Closing down the CIA bin Laden task force. Our friend Pakistan is now harboring him.
I'm glad you've been picked for this debate. You're going to rock!
More backseat driving.
I REALLY hope that you never let them steer you anywhere near a question like "where are the people from the plane?" Remember, ALL we have to explain is that THEY didn't explain a lot of stuff. The Pentagon issue, IMO, should be a simple matter of "How the hell am I supposed to know what hit it? They won't release the videos." AND "How could ANYTHING strike within the most heavily defended airspace in the world?" Sheesh, I mean what if we had an actual war? (That part's a joke.)
Operation Northwoods and the whole false flag thing is difficult to explain, hard to accept, and easily morphed into "crazy talk" by a host or adversary. I'd completely stay away from it -- DEFINITELY if you are not being given good chunks of time to talk (if they're interrupting you a lot.)
If I was you, I would be discerning just as clearly as I could: How can I take their story apart without giving them my own story, even about the little things? Because that is precisely where they lose their shit.
And once again, many, many people -- certainly me -- will be rooting for you.
Davin Coburn got cut already?
Anybody have any info on this David Dunbar character? I've never heard of him.
Dylan debate now with DAVID Dunbar
I just saw this too, Chris Rose. Dylan posted it on his site:
http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/09/about-time_07.html
Nobody really expected that Davin character did they? Not after he got whipped on that Goyette radio show. Should be interesting..... I can only hope Amy Goodman doesn't take sides or do some sort of passive agressive behavior to subtly take sides with Popular Mechanics.
Remind Amy Goodman...
...that she was there- she saw WTC 7 collapse in person with her own two eyes, right? I think it will have so much power to her audience if you invoke that fact (gently). Why shouldn't she of all people want to hear a reasonable explanation for a spontaneous collapse of New York's CIA headquarters at end of day of 9/11? Why shouldn't she off all people be intrigued that the 9/11 Commission Report ignored the subject and FEMA said they couldn't think of any plausible explanation for its collapse?
Lee Hamilton
In the CBC piece, Lee Hamilton claimed that he couldn't recall whether or not WTC7 was included in the Commission Report. He "couldn't recall"!!! When pressed he brushed it off as if the collapse of a 47 steel & concrete building for no apparent reason was'nt cause for concern.
Also remember that NIST is now investigating hypothetical explosive events that may have contributed to the collapse of WTC7.
Controlled demolition
Have you ever seen one? Just curoius.
explosives vs. Jet Fuel
If they take the NY times angle about getting 'all that' explosives in the buildings you should respond : ' Your question implies that that it would take a vast amount of highly concentrated explosives placed in the perfect locations throughout the building structure , yet at the same time you claim that a quick burst of exploding jet fuel on only several upper floors created the same results: Ie. the complete and total collapse of the building within their own foot prints at virtually free fall speed. If it required tons of explosives than jet fuel (or more acurately (according to NIST) burning office furniture) did not bring down these towers, " Radical Pragmatist
Democracy Now 9/11 Debate
Dylan and Jason from Loose change did a commendable job. One quick note about the end of the debate and Bldg 7. The editor of Popular Mechanics actually had the balls to compare the "conspiracy theorist's" speculation about Bldg 7 to "people who argue for creationism" and "holocaust deniers". Truly amazing. There is no shame. 5 years, two wars, countless civilians murdered and tortured, and the proponents have the nerve to say, 'Sorry we can't answer why 7 came down.' or 'Silverstein didn't really mean "pull" when he said they "pulled" 7.' Ridiculous. There is no other available explanation. Buildings 5 and 6 were far more damaged from debris and fire and stood to be pulled weeks later. But a building with Guiliani's command bunker that coulld withstand 3,000 degrees of burning fire and 200mph winds and a building that also housed the DoD, CIA, FBI, SEC had certain structural anomolies that allowed it to fall on itself at free fall speed. Come on, please.
MP3?
Who's got the MP3?
Pulled...
Were 5 and 6 actually pulled over? Or did they do a controlled demolition of these? These mean two separate things in demolition parlance. Of course, Larry S was no demolition expert, so why would he use demo terminology correctly (or even incorrectly, for that matter). Anyway, I think pulled was referring to the firefighter sense of the word, where you pull your people out and let it burn.
You guys have to be able to
You guys have to be able to counter every point in Meigs' op-ed (eg what's your take on Kim's 'categorically incorrect' statement? Etc.). It's no use saying the Internet Detectives ought to get a new hobby - you have to be able to counter their points coolly and quickly, even if you think they're beneath contempt.
Otherwise they'll win.
Re Democracy Now! I reckon you need to get the suits on, avoid calling people liars, and look for killer counter-questions, then sit back and wait politely for their answers. Joe Schmo'll be impressed when they don't answer immediately (eg why then did Silverstein talk about pulling WTC7? etc).
See what 'experts' PM are talking about - all of them. Interview them yourselves.
They questioned 300 - big deal. You question 500.
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