Open Thread

A lot of events going on today all across the nation, including President Bush visiting all three sites. We hope to get some live reporting from Ground Zero today, and will do our best to stay on top of the news. If you see something be sure to contact us or post it here in the open thread.

I will keep this thread at the top of the page today to better help people keep track of what all is going on, check below this post for other posts from today.

Updates (Newest first):
Kyle Hence, Paul Thompson on CSPAN1 at 11AM EST
Democracy Now debate between Loose Change creators and Popular Mechanics - Video and Discussion

Ann Coulter debates 9/11 widow - Geraldo 7:30PM EST (local station)
Bush national address - 9PM EST

wow, looks like

wow, looks like is covering 9/11: Press for Truth

crooks and liars ironically are the crooks and liars

wow... crooks and liars are so trendy. Now that it's in vogue to be a kook... instead of a crooked liar like the shills who operate and run crooks and liars... they figure they'd better get on the band wagon quick (or at least for the anniversary) so that they can seem "legit" with anyone who stops by tomorrow. Then the following day they will go back to shamelessly censoring visitor comments of any mention of a coverup.

oddly enough this site

oddly enough this site actually started running blogads on their site way way back in the day, back when their ads were $75 instead of $900..

this is a great development

not only C & L posted about it, but FireDogLake did...which is a VERY influencial liberal blog!

And their endorsment for a new independant commission is even better. If this thing can catch fire in the liberal out!

Bush provoked the 9-11 attacks

I'm going to say this no matter who does not want to see this. The 9-11 attacks appeared as blowback for secret foreign policy between George W Bush and his Republican party and the Taliban terrorists and their Al Qaeda friends. 9-11 did not appear unprovoked. 9-11 happened for a reason.

What did George W Bush do between Jan 21, 2001 and July 2001? He negotiated with the Taliban terrorist government for the right for the US oil companies to buiild gas and oil pipelines across Afghanistan. In July 2001, the Taliban would not go along with any deal after months of negotiations. The frustrated Bush administration warned the Pakistanis in Germany in July 2001 at a diplomatic meeting, that the Taliban refused to attend, that The US would invade Afghanistan unless the Taliban went along with these pipeline projects, and to tell the Taliban this. When the Pakistanis informed the Taliban of the impending invasion, the Taliban did not wait, they got their friends Al Qaeda led by Osama Bin laden and Struck us first.

I doubt that the 9-11 attacks would have occurred if George W Bush had not pressured the Taliban to accept oil pipeline building contracts, under threat of invasion.

John Charles Brisard and Guilliaume Dasquie wrote a book "Forbidden Truth: SECRET US - TALIBAN Oil diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for Bin Laden" You can obtain it from

Both Bin Laden and George W Bush bear responsibility for these 9-11 deaths and the attacks that caused them.

Call for the resignation of Bush and Cheney.

Consider this a referendum on the combined impeachment, conviction, resignation of George W Bush and Richard Cheney.

I report, you decide. Pass this text to the ends of the country east, west, north and south.

Resolved that we call for the resignation of George W bush and Richard Cheney for:

1. Starting an invasion of a country based upon lies and that did not attack ours.

2. Wiretapping of people within the United States without obtaining warrants for such wiretaps.

If you do not consent to this call for the resignation simply do nothing.

If you do consent to the call for resignation of George W Bush and Richard B Cheney based
upon the two charges listed above

Call each of Rush Limbaugh's sponsors. Demand they get Bush and Cheney to resign and until they resign you will not ever buy their products again until they accomplish the demand. Spread the word. This referendum shall stand or fall based upon the merits and each citizen will decide. Please spread this text throughout the net and post in libraries, town meeting, supermarkets, everywhere in the United States of America.

Rush Limbaugh's advertisers

Tell them you have called them because they advertise on Rush Limbaugh's show and they help advance the Republican agenda.

Bose Wave Radio 508-766-7781

Lending Tree (704) 541-5351

Life Quotes 1-800-670-5433

Select Comfort 763-551-7460
(customer comments and service email)

300 N. Lake Ave., Suite 1111
Pasadena, CA 91101
FAX 626.585.4040

Inverness Medical (maker of stresstabs)
51 Sawyer Road
Waltham, MA 02021
1-800-899-7353 weekdays, 8 am. - 6 p.m. (Eastern Time.)


Hotwire Corporate Headquarters
333 Market Street, Suite 100
San Francisco, CA 94105
1-877-HOTWIRE (468-9473)

Sleep Number Bed

The Neptune Society of Northern California
Stewart Enterprises
12070 Telegraph Road ..107
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670

Oreck Upright Vacuum Cleaners
Oreck Corporation
100 Plantation Road
New Orleans, Louisiana 70123
Online contact form

Smart & Final
Customer Relations
PO Box 512377
Los Angeles, CA 91001-0377
(Heard on KFI 640 in Los Angeles)

Mid-West Life Insurance Company of Tennessee
9151 Grapevine Hwy.
North Richland Hills, TX 76180
Phone (800) 733-1110
(web banner ads on

AutoZone Inc.
P.O. Box 2198
Memphis, TN 38101
Phone (901) 495-7185
Fax (901) 495-8374

UPDATED - Citracal - Mission Pharmacal
Bennett Kennedy - Citracal Product Manager
Mission Pharmacal
P.O. Box 786099
San Antonio, TX 78278-6099
Phone:(800) 531-3333



Red Lobster
Write to:
P.O. Box 593330
Orlando, FL 32859-3330
Guest Relations Hotline
1-800-LOBSTER (1-800-562-7837)

Lumber Liquidators
Toll Free: 877-645-5347
Contact list:

Avacor (hair loss treatment)
(customer comments email)

Lazerguide® (golf instruction tool)
PO Box 807
New Hudson Michigan 48165
1-877-266-6430 (toll free)

Mission Pharmacal Company
10999 IH-10 West Suite 1000
San Antonio, TX 78230
Telephone: (800) 531-3333

General Steel Metal Buildings
1075 South Yukon, Ste. 250
Lakewood, Colorado 80226
Toll Free: 1-888-98-STEEL
Phone: 303-904-4837
Fax: 303-979-0084

Life Quotes, Inc.
32045 Castle Court
Evergreen, CO 80439

Select Comfort Corporation
6105 Trenton Lane N
Minneapolis, MN 55442
Phone: 763-551-7000
Fax: 763-551-7826

Scottrade Inc
12855 Flushing Meadows Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63131
1-800-619-SAVE, Inc.
1 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 506
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601

The Swap Shop
3291 East Sunrise
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Phone - 954.791.$WAP

Pfizer Inc
235 East 42nd Street
New York, NY 10017


No doubt. The fact that they censor any post that does not fit the Left-Right, Democrat-Republican paradigm shows them to be shills.

I just watched Press for Truth ....

And I'd say that it is as close to a MIHOP arguement as one could get. Any substantive explanation of US relationship to ISI and AlQaeda, in my opinion, implies MIHOP. Press for Truth went all the way to expose this important area of the investigation.

press for truth doesn't just make the case for MIHOP

it practically makes the judgement without explicitly saying so. Plus it uses the heart strings so if anything is going to get america paying attention its a doc like that.

Quote re: Pentagon.

My local news station runs CBS Radio news at the top of the hour. They played a couple of quick eyewitness quotes and the Pentagon quote, I shit you not, was something like "whoever handled that plane moved it like a cruise missile." Is CBS leaking truth on purpose? Haha.

5 yr Anniversary

5 yr anniversary of 9/11 and America is still asleep. Makes me really angry in a society that rejects anger as dangerous. I don't give a f*ck what people think about 9/11 anymore, but if you can't get your muster up over innocent civilians being liquidated in Arab countries on a daily basis and our civil liberties eroding like the beaches, than you don't deserve citizenship. I see people reading GQ and US and PEOPLE and JOHN GRISHAM on the train and think 'Are you kidding me?'

Sucking ink from Hearst c*ck.

Wake up. They blew up building 7. They blew up WTC1&2. They contaminate our troops with Depleted Uranium. They drop cute little blue cluster bombs for little Iraqi and Lebanese kids to pick up months and years later to be blown to bits. They lie, torture, rape, and murder IN YOUR NAME. You won't see these stories in the TIMES or the POST, but it's happening every day. Wake up Amerika. Turn off American Idol. Throw out your TV. Use your daily paper for kindling. Stop Planned Obsolescence. Stop Consumerism. Stop Corporatocracy. Stop the Military Industrial Complex Eisenhower warned of. Dissolve the Fed that Jackson, Lincoln, and Kennedy tried to fight. Take back Habeus Corpus, Posse Commitatus, the Bill of Rights. Support Diplomacy. Support Peace at all costs. Support non-violent action.



the choir already knows the tune... why are you singing it to us

I think you're missing something important. People generally don't give a shit about other people's pain. That is human nature. And we/they have been trained day after day that tomorrow will be just another day like yesterday... you stop and buy gas, food, etc., and it's available... and it will be available tomorrow. So who cares if they took out 3000 americans (as long as it's not us) to allow our "team" to begin a power grab in the middle east. That's how the military works anyways... just pretend it was a draft of those 3000 americans (i apologize for being so glib here... just trying to make a point). We assume we must "lose" some of our "soldiers" in the struggle for "freedom". So we all just think that as long as we can buy food and gas tomorrow and have life be just like yesterday, it's all out of our hands... and we drown ourselves in booze, porn, and other cheap forms of entertainment while we wait for reality to hit the fan...

who knows... maybe this is all about oil.. .maybe there won't be any left in 10 years... then when we don't have any electricity it won't matter much anymore if we're right or wrong... asleep or awake...

I think you're wrong.

I think people do generally give a shit about other people's pain. I think that's an evolved trait that maximizes survival for members of a tribe.

I think the tendency to drown in porn, booze, food, consumer goods, and American Idol is an attempt to drown out that sensitivity, because here in the 21st century, it is completely overwhelming.

i hear you

yeah I suppose you're right.... perhaps half of them do anyway. I've just become very bitter due to the isolation and marginalization I've felt as a result of the people who look at me like I'm crazy if I mention this stuff... I guess I'm pretty much the one who doesn't give a shit anymore to be honest. People just still expect to have their american dream and eat it too... and they can't have it both ways anymore IMO. There's just too much isolated power required to keep the fantasy going... and the result you get is the need to use people like a form of money... kill a few here to get this accomplished... spend a few there to do that.. That's what I imagine has to happen when you have to manage the dream, so to speak... You're talking about 20 oil ships a day into the US just to keep up with current oil consumption here... People won't change by asking them... you have to force them (or trick them).

Also, the truth is that

Also, the truth is that people want the easy way out. They don't want to take the difficult path. Realizing the fact that 9/11 was an inside job is difficult, troublesome, and very upsetting. It can change your entire outlook on the world. It's not easy to convince someone to take the jump and realize something that could make their life that difficult. However, I think the key is showing them how much more difficult their life will be in the long term if those who are guilty of setting up 911 are never exposed and brought to justice.

Keep it up!

Oh man...i t was deppressing reading your discussion.
I understand your bitterness... but remember!:

"Ideas are bulletproof."

and most people are after good ideas. It's true that they've got lost,
but it's our job to wake them up! It is difficult, it sometimes seems
pointless - but it's not!
You have many people behind you OneDay!

wow... crooks and liars


crooks and liars finally came around

no,they really havent, ive

no,they really havent, ive seen them ban and delete at least 3 different peoples comments today because they "went to far" on 9/11.

5yr anniversary


Why is everyone so afraid to admit to the truth? What are we? A nation of cowards? Or are we all blind? Why do we think that our leaders can't / don't commit crimes? Travel & work around the world with the UN like I did and you will SEE the aftermath of our "dear" learders policies!

So yes, Support Peace at all costs. Support non-violent action.




I don't hear you preaching to the choir--I hear you rallying the troops. And be sure I'm not the only one listening--we are millions. To the one who said no one cares about anyone else's pain I say BS. If that were true, no one would have given a damn about 9/11 in the first place. Why do you think they had to lie to everyone? Because they know Americans are at their core good if misguided people. I hear it everyday on the street from so many people--they KNOW what's wrong, and we are changing the course of history with our actions. I don't know anyone who has invested a significant amount of their time, energy, and heart into this movement that is going to ever give up--9/11 Truth is a wake-up call for the ages, it does not conform to the rules of the plastic reality most people are used to dealing with, including the powers that be. Never forget that we are real, they are fake. Everything about them is fake--they count on lies to give them the strength they know they don't really have. They lack our courage, our passion, our wisdom, and our vision. We will bury them. That is an iron-clad guarantee from this truther to the world. If anyone wants to get off the train and settle back into their plastic slavery then by all means make room for others who like us, will NEVER give up this fight!

"Among the 'spider-man' skeptics are those who claim that no human can shoot web and stick to walls... They conveniently ignore the fact that he was bitten by a radioactive spider."

Daily Bugle editorial debunking the claims of spider-man deniers

Well said both of you,

Well said both of you, brilliant pieces!

Check this they just said Donna Marsh O’Connor is going to be speaking!!

CBC - 9/11 health problems

Canadian Television:

TITLE: 9/11: Toxic Legacy
SYNOPSIS: The environmental fallout of Sept. 11.
Sun 9/10/2006 6:00 PM 239(CBOT), 309(CBLTDT)
Sun 9/10/2006 9:00 PM 3(CBUT), 3(CBUT)
Thu 9/14/2006 8:00 PM 26(CBNEW), 26(CBNEW)
Thu 9/14/2006 11:00 PM 26(CBNEW), 26(CBNEW)

i only caught the end of this program... but CBC got it dead on yet again today. They clearly explain that there are health problems related to the dust in both rescue workers and residences. They put the blame where it belongs. I had lost faith in Canadian media, but CBC really came through today. CBC is Canada's only National Public Television Station. Our tax dollars pay to keep this station alive. It's most famous for hockey night in Canada (saturday night), but it's a very popular TV station. There will be a lot canadians watching this... probably would have been more if it wasn't for fucking family guy (though i will be downloading it later, haha). They're showing police and firefighters who have died since 9/11 from the health hazzards. Powerfull stuff.

- visit to learn the truth about September 11th, 2001

CBC docs

Does anyone know where i can download these documentaries??

I live in Europe & can't get CBC TV

first documentry

I didn't saw Toxic Legacy, but I saw the first documentry who was looking like they were going to cover the alternative story, but in fact it was just sh*t about telling how they could have stop the terrorists.

But a thing that made me laugth was the fact that some terrorists didn't have all the right paper to get to US but they were allow anyway. Did you think that the so powerfull AlQuaeda would try to get there peoples sin the US without the right paper for the biggest terrorist attack ever ???

CBC didn't do anything but to point everywhere to blame autority but didn't point WTC7. They are just keeping the focus out of the real questions.

CBC is the PIMP

I had lost faith in my Canadian Media, but CBC comes through BIG TIME. The show they had on this morning, was great, but now, they've replayed it at 10pm. So it was on in the morning, and in the evening, prime time! Looking at the tv scheduel, there's gonna be a TON of Canadians watching this. No family guy, no nothing. This is gonna be huge in canada! The show before was great too, about the health hazzards after 9/11, but this one was awesome. Its about 6 threads down, but here's the video that's airing again, right now on the west coast.

if there's anyone in vancouver reading this, come to UBC campus tomorrow to hand out flyers... wearing the black and white 9/11 shirt if possible.

How many years will it take

How many years will it take to finally convict the hearts of those that were involved with the demolition of these buildings to come forward and tel the truth? Will it take another five years for these individuals to realize that their actions were evil and wrong? Obviously, some of them are so twisted that they will never feel guilt over their actions. However, a few of them must be human enough to feel regret over their actions.

I'm sure more than once the

I'm sure more than once the people that know the truth and can proove it have had to weigh their family's health over that of the world's.

CNN 911 P****d off!

I just caught the tail-end of tonight’s CNN special and its guest debating someone on the 911 Truth issues. As usual, the host was rude and afforded more time to the guest supporting the lie.
Then this guy said he talked to engineers that built WTC and they agreed a plane did indeed do the deed.

Watch this and tell me what is said here:

Isn't Frank DeMartini WTC Project Manager qualified?

Oh, I get it . . . he was qualified "then" but not now he's not. How foolish of me not to recognize that structural integrity changes depending on who you interview.

ATTN: Fox I have STOPPED watching, everything. You control the microphone and content to your benefit. Fair, accurate, NOT. Who is paying you guys to keep this charade alive?

Love of Country is very different than Love of Government, where do you stand?

However, you could be the hero network (if you wanted to) start doing "right" by the American people.

People that ask honest questions deserve honest answers. The whole world is starting to laugh. You can't answer anything with this type of reporting!

May the Love in our hearts

May the Love in our hearts guide us all.

(to finish my previous

(to finish my previous post)

...and make us join only with those who live for love.


I offer neither pay, nor quarters, nor provisions; I offer hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country in his heart and not with his lips only, follow me. - - Giuseppe Mazzini


Wait...wait...wait...Crooks And Liars JUST plugged and linked to a 9/11 Truth film that implies the US did 9/11 through Pakistan and made sure it couldnt be prevented??? SWEET. Wouldn't it be something if the establishment left who has long made fun of us all the sudden rallied behind the 9/11 truth movement?
Maybe the ABC controversy and the 9/11 Press For Truth were the opening trojan horses? Or is this wishful thinking, and they'll continue to go with their incompetence theories? Even LIHOP at this point with the liberals is more acceptable then "incompetence".

Seriously, I hope millions of people take the time to watch press for truth:

And now the moment the 9/11 truth has waited 5 years for(besides a REAL investigation and the media ending its blackout) ...9/11 5 years is here. And I cannot imagine what ground zero is going to be like, especially since thankfully the chimperor puppet in chief won't be there.

If the outrage turns into,

If the outrage turns into, OMG Pakistan is Evil, lets invade them and spread democracy, I'm going to pop a vein in my brain.

Blew me away

I couldn't believe all of the GOOD stuff being said over at crooks and liars about "911 press for truth".

John Gold was right. This is THE movie...


Let me lean out the window..

Let me lean out the window.. and play prophet.

The 5yr anniv did its thing... lots more people became aware OF THE POSSIBILITY that 911 was an inside job. Slowly but surely OF THESE NEWBIES many (50%) will actually start to REALIZE that it was. This will take another year or two.

IMHO the perps CAN NO LONGER DO is to committ another terror atrocity. I think it also is near impossible that they enable a jihad-group to do one... first there will be GOV/MIL people obstructing and secondly the jihadists will smell a rat.

Time is running out for the perps.. and they know it.

Only by

1) keeping their heads down and
2) stamping on every sprouting challenge

can they expect to die natural deaths.

to be continued...

don't forget plan C: A

don't forget plan C: A virus. They haven't been genetically modifying all those nasty little buggers for the sheer fun of it. A viral outbreak would be more effective than 10 dirty bombs. Member SARS? It was basically just a bad case of the flu but it had the whole planete wearing masks and cowering in their living rooms. And there's no need for patsies and drills and other suspicious happenings.

But can't those fuckers mutate?

9/11 Truth audio stream today on radioactive sandiego

In honor of the thousands who died on 9/11/01, and the many thousands more who died in the wars that have been conducted since, RadioActive sanDiego will play audio related to 9/11. Including lectures by David Ray Griffin, Michel Chossudovsky, John Judge, and Ralph Shoenman, interviews with Fred Burks, Nafeez Ahmed, and James Fetzer, as well as audio collected at the D.C. Truth Emergence, and the Chicago 9/11 Truth conference.

listen to our internet stream by going to
in san diego our stream is rebroadcasted by 106.9 FM


Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others. ~ William Greider

Thanks this blog

Thank you very much 911blogger
from Turkey

Can someone post this CBC doc - they suggest LIHOP by the BCF.


It's a 2-hour show, the first 45 covers the Clinton years, the last covers 75 covers Bush.

The last 15 is especially damning of the Bush administration, suggesting they 'LIHOP'ed at the very mininum.

You know, integrity and getting on with the mission and doing it right is more important than loyalty. Both are great traits, but integrity, honesty and performance and competence have to outweigh, in this business, loyalty.

General Tony Zinni - Commander of United States Central Command (Ret.)

The next 9/11

Let's hope the next 9/11 has been cancelled. And let's hope that if it does come that it is not a successful hit on Bush. That would have satan himself (Cheney) at the reins, and martial law just a gunshot away. God forbid. I am afraid for you.

Sign the petition.

Scholarsfor911truth has a petition that calls for realise of 9/11 information.

15 578 has signed so far.

bad press everywhere

Looks like the MSM prepared to collectively insult the truth movement for the anniversary. Virtually every MSM news-site is trumpeting out we're "nutballs" "nutbags" "paranoids" and on and on and on. And Dubya is once again getting away with remembering "the 3000 dead", how compassionate he is.

hit piece

Australian MP outraged by "In Plane Site"-movie

coast to coast

9-11 Special David Hawkins Lisa Guliani & Victor Thorn David Ray Griffin

Excellent letter, Andrew!

Well done!!!

Thank you,!

Thank you to dz and all the people running and maintaining

Thank you for creating an incredibly resourceful venue for individuals and institutions researching and learning about the horrible truth of U.S. government involvement in aiding and abetting 9/11.

The criminals embedded in the U.S. government are running scared and lashing out. A concerted effort is being made to destroy anyone who speaks truth. This simply means we are getting closer to massive widespread knowledge of which groups and individuals are the real suspects.

Recently, we've seen the attack on and firing of Mike Malloy from Air America. Kevin Ryan was fired for revealing truth. And, now Steven Jones is being terrorized by BYU and the forces putting the University up to such actions.

Divide and conquer. Infiltrate. Discredit through shills. All the tired old strategies.

Fortunately, the insane establishment press and criminals in the Bush Administration do not understand with what they are dealing. A fed-up and outraged citizenry will no longer tolerate the lies, fairy tales, and violent evil that is being thrust upon U.S. citizens and people around the world.

We must continue to nurture and support one another as we know judgment and punishment day is coming for the real perpetrators - those in the U.S. government who have used foreigners and natives alike to orchestrate the terror of 9/11.

An Addendum to the Thank You to

Readers, please do not become dispirited by the trash MSM reports on the 5th Anniversary of 9/11. I am actually keeping my television off during this period.

As someone recently posted, the MSM will NEVER be our friend. Our movement is and must be fueled by face-to-face contact with people in our immediate worlds - as well as alternative media. We must remember this.

I also want to offer an additional thank you to "GeorgeWashington" who posted these great quotes at the GW blog. See here:

Thank you to everyone for the dedication and work you are doing. We will continue on past this 5th Year Anniversary until our work is done and we see success.

be sure to watch CSPAN

be sure to watch CSPAN today.. they are taking all sorts of calls today..

one a minute ago said that he was in afghanistan with the military and that they were barely even after him.. that they had come across one of his dialisis machines..

some had been claiming UBL wasn't really on dialisis, but this military guy seemed to believe otherwise.

Dick Cheney on CSPAN now.

Dick Cheney on CSPAN now.

1/3 to 1/2 of Americans...

...believe 9/11 was an inside job.

So, if 100,000,000 Americans know that elements of their own government orchestrated the events of 9/11 and have continuously deceived the public by selling them on the fake "war on terror"...then where are these 100,000,000 people?

What will it take to get you Americans to do something? I'm sorry, but this is so goddamned sad what you guys are letting them get away with. But what's more sad is that if they were hosting American Idol auditions, or were giving away free McDonalds at ground zero, you can bet your ass that there'd be a turnout.

Most Americans are so damn lazy and deserve to lose their country if they're unwilling to defend it.

Sorry for the rant here, just upset about the lack of coverage of truth activists at ground zero. There's 100,000,000 million of you! Where are you?

They are *everywhere*

So, if 100,000,000 Americans know that elements of their own government orchestrated the events of 9/11 and have continuously deceived the public by selling them on the fake "war on terror"...then where are these 100,000,000 people?

A little anecdote I will share: I was at the South Dakota State Fair a couple of weeks ago working the Libertarian Party booth. You know how those things are, people shuffling by, some won't talk to you, some will just say hello and keep walking, some won't even make eye contact.

The first person who actually engaged me stopped and chatted for a few minutes. He said, "We're sure in a mess over there in Iraq." I said, "I think that's an understatement." After a little more chit chat he leaned in and said, "You know what else? That 9/11, I think they knew." After a little more talk it became clear that he was definitely MIHOP. This was from a guy, probably in his 60s, from a tiny SD town on the plains. He said he has a son in Arizona who's been sending him stuff.

THEY ARE EVERYWHERE and we don't even realize it. Kinda like pot smokers. :)


Another example of this - after the truth march on saturday, I was handing out flyers and deception dollars at a concert in the park. My friend eyed two police officers over to the side, not far from us and suggested we go do some outreach with them. So we go over to the cops and ask if we can give them some info. They're like what's this and take a peek without touching the flyers, then back off slightly and say no. Then we explain that we really want police officers to be aware of this information and to know what's going on in this country. At that point, one of the cops said "I know" and started telling me all about WTC 7... we thanked them for their time and went back to working the crowd.

Democracy Now

I saw the entire debate this morning with the PM liars and the LC guys. I thought it was pretty damn good. It was broken into topics: Shanksville, the Pentagon, the towers, and Building 7. Goodman played the moderator and did not take one side at all. They would air segments from LC2E-recut, then they would debate the issue. PM started out, perhaps taking the lead with their "debunking", but soon after Dylan and Jason hammered out so much more info that wan't in the video that left PM sweating and stuttering, eventually trying it to tie this to the likes of Kennedy and holocaust denial. Jason was visiablly annoyed and called Meigs a liar multiple times. Dylan kept his cool and was awesome. Overall it was great and viewers/listeners of Democracy Now got a lot of info they never heard before. Kudos to Dylan and Jason. Great job going up against these liars.

Everyone should check out the archive here

Notice that

PM sent out "top gun" Agent Meigs instead of little Davin as had been announced earlier.

And he did miserably lol 

Dylan & Jason were awesome!!!

I just saw Dylan & Jason vs. the Popular Mechanics con-men & the Loose Change guys cleaned their clocks! Amy Goodman has no excuse now to shun 9/11 truth any longer! (I'll comment much more on the whole thing later, but it was great!!!)


look guys... Amy Goodman and DemocracyNow is a shill. I saw through this pre-iraq war. This being on Democracy Now is how they are dealing with this problem. If it's on DemNow, than we all think something's being done... But notice how she doesn't address the hot stuff up front. She asks about stupid stuff like cell phone calls... and "no trace" stuff... Where is WTC7? Where is jet fighter response? and on and on....


The 9/11 Truth Movement in Perspective

9/11 Conspiracy Theories:
The 9/11 Truth Movement in Perspective
by Phil Molé

At the Hyatt Regency O’Hare near Chicago, a crowd of approximately 400 people has gathered on a pleasant summer evening. Some are old and some are young; some are dressed in colorful tie-died shirts while others wear dress shirts and slacks, but most seem cheerful and friendly. We are all waiting for the opening of the main lecture hall for the evening’s event, the first of many scheduled talks during a weekend-long conference. We bide some time by looking at the items for sale: DVD copies of Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, the anti-Karl Rove documentary Bush’s Brain, and the more recent Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price.

There is nothing especially unusual here, since all of these are available at the Borders or Best Buy near you. But then as the doors to the main hall are about to open, one anxious attendee tries to start a chant of “9/11 was an Inside Job.” A few people join in before another attendee tells him, quite emphatically, “we already know!” The weekend conference is the Chicago meeting for, one of the most visible organizations within a larger coalition known as the “9/11 Truth Movement,” and most of the crowd believes that the United States government planned and orchestrated the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

The statement “we already know!” well summarizes the attitude of the conference attendees toward the material presented during the lectures. Many at the conference do not seem to be looking for new information that might lead to more accurate perspectives about the events of 9/11. A fellow sitting near me admits, “We already know this stuff; we’re here to reconfirm what we already know.” The conference is a way for attendees to consolidate their group identity, and try to bring their message to those people at home and abroad who believe the “official story” of 9/11. As someone who does not share the views of the 9/11 Truth Movement, I have another objective. I want to listen to their arguments and view their evidence, and understand the reasons why so many likable and otherwise intelligent people are convinced that the United States government planned the murder of nearly 3,000 of its own citizens.

The Collapse of
World Trade Center Buildings 1 & 2
When most of us recall the events of 9/11, we think of the image of those two seemingly indestructible World Trade Center towers crumbling to the ground. Not surprisingly, their collapse is also a central issue for the 9/11 Truth Movement. An overwhelming amount of the organization’s talks and publicity materials address the fall of Buildings 1 and 2. But as these materials show, does not believe the official story that the primary damage to the WTC occurred when two airplanes hijacked by terrorists crashed into the towers. Rather, they maintain that the towers fell due to a controlled demolition, planned in advance by the United States government.

Why do they think this? A primary reason seems to be that the collapse of the towers looks like the result of a controlled demolition. Since there is no structural resistance to gravity in a controlled demolition, the building collapses straight into its own footprint, with each floor “pancaking” onto the floors below at or near the speed of a free fall. Many of the presenters at the Hyatt Conference compared videos of the collapse of the towers with videos of known controlled demolitions, noting the similarity in both the appearance and speed of collapse. maintains that if actually hit by an airplane, the steel structure of the WTC buildings should have provided at least some resistance to the weight of the floors above, causing the falling structure to pitch over to one side rather than pancake straight down. They further argue that fires caused by burning jet fuel from the crashed planes could not have caused the collapse, since jet fuel burns at a temperature of no more than 1500° Fahrenheit,1 while a temperature of approximately 2800° is needed to melt steel. David Heller makes the point in a widely read article:

The official story maintains that fires weakened the buildings. Jet fuel supposedly burned so hot it began to melt the steel columns supporting the towers. But steel-framed skyscrapers have never collapsed from fire, since they’re built from steel that doesn’t melt below 2750° Fahrenheit. No fuel, not even jet fuel, which is really just refined kerosene, will burn hotter than 1500° Fahrenheit.2

Since burning jet fuel is not hot enough by itself to melt steel, reports that melted steel was observed at Ground Zero suggest to conspiracy theorists that some other incendiary substance must have been introduced.

Finally, many of the leaders of the movement claim that demolition “squibs” can be seen in videos of the WTC collapse just before and during the time the towers began to fall. In professional demolition lingo, a “squib” is an explosive device used to weaken building structure during a controlled demolition. Several presenters at the conference pointed out small bursts of debris spraying out horizontally from the towers during collapse, and identified these as “squibs” secretly detonated to fell the buildings.

What can we make of these allegations? First, let’s examine the similarity in appearance between the collapse of the World Trade Center towers and the collapse of buildings destroyed through planned demolitions. In controlled demolitions, detonating devices weaken or disrupt all major support points in a building at the same time. Therefore, once the collapse begins, all parts of the building are simultaneously in motion, free-falling to the ground. However, this is definitely not what happens during the collapse of WTC Buildings 1 and 2. Carefully review footage of the collapses, and you will find that the parts of the buildings above the plane impact points begin falling first, while the lower parts of the buildings are initially stationary.3 The parts of the towers below the impact point do not begin to fall until the higher floors have collapsed onto them. This is not what we would expect if the towers collapsed from a controlled demolition, but it is exactly what we would expect if the building collapse resulted from damage sustained by the impact of the planes and subsequent fire damage. A conspiracy theorist may counter that the buildings were rigged to begin falling from the top down, but what are the chances that those planning such a complicated demolition would be able to predict the exact location the planes would impact the towers, and prepare the towers to begin falling precisely there?

Additionally, footage of the collapse of the South Tower, or Building 2 reveals that the tower did not fall straight down, as the North Tower and buildings leveled by controlled demolitions typically fall. Instead, the tower tilted toward the direction of the impact point, and then began to pancake downward with the top part of the building tilted at an angle. The difference between the two collapses can be explained by the different way each airplane struck the buildings. The first plane struck the North Tower (Building 1) between the 94th to 98th floors and hit it head on, burrowing almost directly toward the core of the building. The second airplane struck the South Tower between the 78th and 84th floors, but sliced in at an angle, severely damaging the entire northeast corner of the building.4 Compared with the North Tower, the South Tower sustained damage that was both less evenly distributed and significantly lower on the building’s frame, requiring the weakened point to support more upper building weight than the corresponding crash site on the North Tower. This explains both the tilt of the building as it fell toward the weakened corner, and the fact that the South Tower fell first despite being struck after the North Tower was struck. Again, this scenario makes good sense if the buildings fell due to damage inflicted by the plane crashes, but makes very little sense if the buildings fell due to a planned demolition.

The 9/11 Truth Movement often states or implies that steel would have needed to melt in order for the structure to collapse at the speed of a free-fall. While there are varying assessments of the temperature of the fire at WTC, most agree that the temperature probably reached 1,000° Fahrenheit and possibly higher than 1,800° F. Flames of this temperature would be far short of the approximately 2800° F needed to melt steel, but they would have been sufficient to severely reduce the structural integrity of the metal. Best engineering estimates tell us that steel loses 50% of its strength at 650° F, and can lose as much as 90% of its strength at temperatures of 1,800° F.5 Even if we assume temperatures of no higher than 1,000° F during the fire, we would still have more than enough reasons to expect damage severe enough to result in eventual collapse.

The unique structure of the WTC towers exaggerated the problems caused by the weakened steel. The towers had a lightweight “perimeter tube” design consisting of 244 exterior columns of 36 cm square steel box section on 100 cm centers, with 95% of the structure’s interior consisting of nothing but air (see Figure 1).6 Within this perimeter tube design there was a 27m by 40m core, designed to provide additional support to the tower. Steel trusses, or joists, connected the outer beams to the core at each story, and provided much of the overall support to the weight of each floor. The impact and explosion of the airplane crashes probably knocked off most of the insulating material intended to fireproof the steel beams, considerably increasing their vulnerability to flames. The heat of the flames reduced the steel to a fraction of its initial strength, while also causing the steel trusses to expand at each end until they no longer supported the weight of the building’s floors, triggering the collapse. The expansion and warping of the steel would have been particularly significant due to temperature differences within the burning structure.7 Thus, the trusses went limp much like a slackened laundry line, providing little or no resistance to the weight of the floors overhead.

Figure 1 A cutaway diagram of the
structure of the main towers at WTC
What about the “melted steel” that 9/11 conspiracy theorists claim was at Ground Zero? Dr. Steven Jones’ popular article cites several anecdotal sources speaking about flowing or pooled samples of melted steel found at Ground Zero.8 However, the sources in question are informal observations of “steel” at Ground Zero, not laboratory results.9 To many people, any grayish metal looks sufficiently like steel to call it “steel” when speaking informally. To actually establish that the substance in question is steel, we need analytical laboratory results using atomic absorption (AA) or another suitable test. It seems far more likely that the metal seen by the contractors was aluminum, a component of the WTC structural material that melts at a much lower temperature than steel and can look superficially similar to it. As for the “squibs” conspiracy theorists claim to see in videos of the WTC collapse, these are plumes of smoke and debris ejected from the building due to the immense pressure associated with millions of tons of falling towers (see Figure 2). Videos of the WTC collapse show that these plumes do not begin until after the towers begin falling and increase in intensity as the collapse continues — this is not the scenario one would expect if the plumes were actually explosives used to cause the buildings to fall.

The Collapse of
World Trade Center Building 7

Figure 2 circled area shows an alleged “squib” (actually air compressed by the falling tower)
“Not so fast,” the 9/11 Truth Movement might say. How do you explain the collapse of WTC Building 7, which was not struck by an airplane? Many 9/11 conspiracy theorists maintain that the collapse of this building at about 5:20 pm on 9/11 would not have occurred unless it was already prepared for demolition. The conspiracy theorists assume that damage sustained by WTC 7 during the attack was not sufficient to trigger its collapse. The site claims that “fires were observed in Building 7 prior to its collapse, but they were isolated in small parts of the building, and were puny by comparison to other building fires.” They further claim that any damage from falling debris from WTC 1 and WTC 2 would have needed to be symmetrical to trigger the pancaking collapse of WTC 7.10

These arguments only reveal the assumptions of their authors. First, the fires burning in WTC 7 were extremely extensive, as Figure 3 shows. The reason this is not obvious from 9/11 Truth Movement presentations and documentaries is that they tend to only show the north side of WTC 7, selectively causing the building to appear both far less ravaged by fire and structural damage than it actually was (see Figure 4).

Firefighter Richard Banaciski notes the difference in appearance between the north and south sides of the building in his first-person account:

We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors.11

Figure 3 WTC 7 seen from the Southwest side, showing the true extent of fire and structural damage
Emergency response workers at Ground Zero realized that extensive damage to the lower south section of WTC 7 would cause collapse as early as 3 pm on 9/11, a fact reported on news broadcasts at the time.12 Video footage shows that when collapse occurred, the south wall of the building gave in first, which is exactly what we would expect based on the location of the most extensive damage. As noted for the collapse of the South Tower, the mechanics of the building’s fall are completely consistent with the nature of the damage sustained. The planned demolition hypothesis, on the other hand, fails to explain why collapse would begin at exactly the point where damage was inflicted, since the conspirators would have had to been able to predict exactly where debris from the fallen North and South Towers would strike WTC 7. And while the makers of the documentary Loose Change comment that WTC 7 “fell straight down, into a convenient pile,” the truth is that the pile of debris was 12 stories high and 150 meters across, hardly the kind of “convenient pile” described by conspiracy theorists.13

For those who believe that Building 7 fell due to controlled demolition, some of the most powerful “evidence” seemingly comes from WTC leaseholder Larry Silverstein’s alleged “confession” that he authorized the tower’s destruction. The quote in question comes from a September, 2002 PBS Special called America Rebuilds, in which Silverstein says:

I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.14

Figure 4 The image of WTC 7 commonly shown by the 9/11 Truth Movement, showing apparently minimal damage to the building
To conspiracy theorists such as Alex Jones at, this quote seems to be a “smoking gun” because they interpret the phrase “pull it” to be “industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives.”15 Silverstein seems to be saying that he and the firefighters decided to pull (destroy) Building 7, and watched it fall after authorizing the demolition. No building could be controllably demolished so quickly, the conspiracy theorists go on to argue, so WTC 7 must have been prepared for demolition long in advance.

On closer inspection, this supposedly devastating evidence does not seem to mean what the 9/11 Truth Movement thinks it means. There is far from unanimous industry agreement that the phrase “pull it” always signifies a controlled demolition with explosives — more specific phrases such as “pull away” would be used to designate the specific operation to be performed.16 And of course, “pull” has many common language uses quite separate from demolition lingo. But if Silverstein wasn’t describing a decision to destroy WTC 7, what could the words “pull it” mean? A good place to seek the answer is this September 9, 2005 statement by Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesperson for Larry Silverstein:

In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.

Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we’ve had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building [emphasis added].17

McQuillan’s response also indicated that firefighters were present at WTC 7 to evacuate tenants, and worked at the site until late in the afternoon shortly before the collapse occurred. There is in fact abundant evidence that firefighters were present in and around WTC 7 in evacuation and rescue missions until late in the day on 9/11. As one account describes:

The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the collapse [of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center … It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time [emphasis added] and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn’t] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely.18

Another first responder adds that there were “tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled [emphasis added] us out.”19 The first-hand accounts of rescue operations at WTC 7 tell a consistent story, and the latter quote also uses the word “pull” to describe the removal of firefighters from the vicinity of the building, just as McQuillan’s statement does. Indeed, there is large agreement between McQuillan’s response and the testimony of the firefighters, including the fact that:

firefighters were in fact in the vicinity of WTC 7 on 9/11;
their activities involved evacuation and rescue missions;
firefighters remained near WTC 7 until late in the afternoon of 9/11;
firefighters realized that WTC 7 would probably fall by approximately 3 pm on 9/11; and
firefighters pulled back from the building shortly after this realization, and watched the building collapse at approximately 5:20 pm. Despite the objections of conspiracy theorists, the “official story” is both logically coherent and supported by evidence.
By contrast, the story told by the 9/11 Truth Movement is riddled with holes. It assumes that Larry Silverstein destroyed WTC Building 7, presumably in order to claim a huge insurance payoff. But if this is so, why would he tell the world of his plot on a PBS special? Furthermore, what relationship does Silverstein have with the United States government who, according to conspiracy theorists, destroyed the WTC buildings in order to terrorize its citizens into accepting domination by a police state?20 And if the government controlled the demolition of the WTC buildings in order to strike fear into its citizens, why one this one case would it wait until all of the tenants were evacuated from WTC 7 so that there were no reported casualties?21 The government’s strategy appears wildly inconsistent in the Truth Movement account — killing nearly 3,000 people in the destruction of the two main towers, while allowing an entire afternoon for the tenants of WTC 7 to escape. We should also note that the alleged 9/11 plot was needlessly complicated, since the building was wired for a controlled demolition and targeted to be hit by airplanes — why not just do the controlled demolition, ditch the airplanes and blame it on the terrorists of your choice?

There’s also the problem that, as even the 9/11 Truth Movement admits, prepping a building for demolition takes considerable time and effort. Usually a building targeted for demolition has been abandoned for considerable time and partially gutted to allow explosives intimate contact with the structure of the building. But since all of the WTC buildings were occupied right up to 9/11, how did the government gain access to wire 3 towers for complete demolition without anyone noticing? Imagine trying to sneak wires and bombs into buildings while thousands of people are working in offices, riding the elevators and milling about in the halls — that scenario is unlikely in the extreme.

The Pentagon
Many people in the 9/11 Truth Movement believe that the Pentagon was not actually struck by Flight 77, as the “official story” claims. Instead, they believe that the United States government somehow staged the damage, perhaps through the use of a bomb or strategically fired missile. This claim first attracted attention in French author Thierry Meyssan’s book, Pentagate, which claims that the damage done to the Pentagon was too limited to have resulted from the crash of a Boeing 757.22 The documentary “Loose Change” claims that the hole left in the Pentagon by the alleged airplane was “a single hole, no more than 16 feet in diameter,” and that no remains whatsoever of Flight 77 were found at the crash site.23 To dramatically support this last point, conspiracy theorists cite CNN correspondent Jamie McIntyre’s report from the crash site on 9/11, which says, “From my close-up inspection, there’s no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.”24

Like the previously discussed arguments about WTC 7 not being damaged enough to fall on its own, complaints about the size of the hole in the Pentagon left by Flight 77 rely on selective choice of perspective. 9/11 conspiracy theorists like to reference pictures of the damaged Pentagon in which the hole made by the plane appears to be small, but aren’t as fond of the pictures accurately showing the full extent of the damage. Some conspiracy theorists also don’t seem satisfied that the shape of the hole matches that expected for a crashed airplane. But the expectation that the plane should have left an immediately recognizable hole in the building is delusional — a speeding Boeing 757 will not leave a snow-angel style impression of itself in a concrete building (versus the mostly-glass exterior of the WTC buildings, which did leave an outline of a plane). And the contention that no remains of Flight 77 were found at the crash site is simply absurd. Many pictures taken of the area around the Pentagon crash site clearly show parts of an airplane in the wreckage. In an excellent article about 9/11 conspiracy theories in Popular Mechanics, blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer describes his own observations as the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after Flight 77 crashed:

I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box.

Kilsheimer’s eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: “I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?”25

But if there is so much evidence that a plane crashed into the Pentagon, why did CNN correspondent Jamie McIntyre report that he could find none? The answer is that McIntyre did not report this at all, and the 9/11 Truth Movement is once again selectively manipulating evidence to fit their conclusions. When McIntyre noted that no debris from a plane was observable near the Pentagon, he was responding to a specific question asked by CNN anchor Judy Woodruff during the segment. Flight 77 came in flying very low, and there had been speculation that the plane might have struck the ground shortly before reaching the Pentagon. McIntyre’s response, when quoted in full, makes clear that he is saying that there was no evidence that the plane hit the ground before hitting the Pentagon, but he certainly does not deny that the plane struck the Pentagon itself.

WOODRUFF: Jamie, Aaron was talking earlier — or one of our correspondence was talking earlier — I think — actually, it was Bob Franken — with an eyewitness who said it appeared that that Boeing 757, the American jet, American Airline jet, landed short of the Pentagon.

Can you give us any better idea of how much of the plane actually impacted the building?

MCINTYRE: You know, it might have appeared that way, but from my close-up inspection, there’s no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. The only site is the actual site of the building that’s crashed in [emphasis added], and as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you can pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around, which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse [emphasis added].26

Note that McIntyre never questions that an airplane crash damaged the Pentagon, and indeed describes seeing many pieces of the aircraft around the crash site in an earlier section of the CNN transcript.27 Of course, this has not stopped conspiracy theorists from picking and choosing the evidence to push their own agendas.

Flight 93 and Other Alleged Anomalies
On April 5, 2006, the creators of the 9/11 conspiracy documentary “Loose Change” and their supporters decided to attend the premiere of the film “United 93,” about the hijacked airplane that crashed on 9/11. They wanted to take the opportunity to expose the alleged lies about this flight, and in the words of one “Loose Change” forum member, to “bite these bastards where it hurts, and have this Fight 93 movie backfire on them.”28 To many Americans, the passengers on United 93 who fought back against the terrorists and caused it to crash before it could reach its target are heroes, but the 9/11 Truth Movement sees things differently. Depending on which conspiracy theorist you ask, you will either learn that Flight 93 actually landed safely, or that a US military jet shot the plane out of the sky.29 The first claim stems from confusion in the initial Associated Press (AP) reports between Flight 93 and Flight 1989, the latter of which did land at Cleveland’s Hopkins Airport on 9/11. The AP subsequently corrected the error, but many conspiracy theorists have not followed suit.30 The second claim rests largely on unsupported assertions that the main body of the engine and other large parts of the plane turned up miles from the main wreckage site — too far away to have resulted from an ordinary crash. This is incorrect, because the engine was found only 300 yards from the main crash site, and its location was consistent with the direction in which the plane had been traveling.31 Furthermore, the black box for the flight records the struggle onboard preceding the plane’s crash. Conspiracy theorists are left with not only an evidentially worthless theory, but also a confusing one. Why would the same U.S. government that allegedly destroyed the WTC shoot down Flight 93 before it could cause similar damage to other buildings? Of course, this question assumes a standard of logical consistency that the 9/11 Truth Movement seems to lack.

Another alleged flight anomaly concerns the supposed “stand down” order given by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) on 9/11 to allow the hijacked airplanes to reach their destinations without interference. The 9/11 Truth Movement believes that NORAD had the capability of locating and intercepting planes on 9/11, and its failure to do so indicates a government conspiracy to allow the attacks to occur. To support this assertion, they claim that NORAD could have quickly neutralized the hijacked planes because flight interceptions are routine, with 67 such intercepts occurring before 9/11.32 Significantly, this claim does not specify the length of time over which these alleged intercepts occurred, or tell us whether they took place near major cities or over, say, miles of open ocean. More specific and accurate information comes from the Popular Mechanics article, which states:

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart’s Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts.33

It is not a quick or easy matter to locate and intercept a plane behaving erratically. NORAD personnel must first attempt repeated communication with the planes in question to rule out more mundane problems, and then must contact appropriate military personnel to scramble the planes and direct them to the appropriate location. The situation on 9/11 was further complicated by the fact that terrorists on the hijacked jets had turned off or disabled the onboard radar transponders. Without a transponder signal identifying the airplanes, each hijacked airplane would have been only one moving blip among many others on NORAD’S screens, making it much harder to track. Thus, even a direct NORAD decision to intercept any of the hijacked planes on 9/11 would have still entailed a significant amount of time to reach the jet — time that was simply not available on 9/11.

Various other conspiracy theories focus on the government’s alleged foreknowledge of the terrorist attacks. One popular theory suggests there was a suspiciously high volume of “put” trading of airline stocks in the days just before 9/11. Since “put” trading is effectively a gamble that the price of a stock will decrease, conspiracy theorists surmise that trading “insiders” knew about the coming events of 9/11 and placed their bets accordingly. While this may look suspicious in isolation, the general volume of put trading on these stocks reached similar levels at earlier points in the year. The spike in American Airlines trading was the highest of the all airline companies involved, but that’s hardly surprising considering that the company had just released a major warning about possible losses.34 Indeed, general bad news about the airline industry prompted investment companies to advise their clients to take the put options, removing any need to blame the trading options on foreknowledge of the attacks.

Another theory alleges that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) arrived at the World Trade Center on September 10, 2001, thus showing that the government knew about the coming disaster. This claim is based on a statement by Tom Kenney of the Massachusetts task force, who told CBS news anchor Dan Rather on September 13, 2001, “We’re currently, uh, one of the first teams that was deployed to support the city of New York for this disaster. We arrived on, uh, late Monday night and went into action on Tuesday morning. And not until today did we get a full opportunity to work, uh, the entire site.”35 The rather mundane explanation for this quote is that Mr. Kenney confused his days — not an unusual occurrence for someone who had been working for more than two long days in emergency response activities. Thus, a straightforward interpretation of Kenney’s response is that he arrived at Ground Zero on 9/11 (which he incorrectly identified as Monday, rather than Tuesday), went into action on 9/12 (mistakenly identified as Tuesday) and did not get a chance to work the whole WTC site until “today” (the day he was speaking to Rather, or Thursday, 9/13). Additionally, many sources document the arrival of FEMA on 9/11, and Kenney’s wife confirmed the day her husband was dispatched to Ground Zero as 9/11.36 The degree to which the 9/11 Truth Movement will exaggerate and exploit simple misunderstandings does not speak well of their concern for truth.

Much of this discussion has focused on explanations given by the 9/11 Truth Movement, but we should note that the explanations they don’t give are just as problematic. I have not been able to locate any significant discussion of al Qaeda, radical Islamic terrorists or the modern history of the Middle East in any of the 9/11 Truth Movement’s writings. The most likely reason for this is that, like most other Americans, many of them simply didn’t pay very much attention to the Middle East before 9/11. Yet, it is impossible to understand the threat of terrorism unless we also understand how the fall of the Ottoman empire, the fragmentation of much of the Middle East into new nations with largely arbitrary boundaries after WW II, Muslim reaction to the creation of the state of Israel, the birth of Islamic fundamentalism, conflict with and influence by Soviet Russia, and frustration over America’s support for Israel have shaped the ideology and mission of groups like al Qaeda. Islamic terrorist groups arose in this context, and have actively and repeatedly targeted American interests for over two decades. The idea that Islamic terrorists would target U.S. buildings for attack fits well with recent events over the past two decades, including:

an attack by the radical Hezbollah faction on Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983;
the hijacking of the Achille Lauro in 1985;
a truck bomb attack on the World Trade Center in 1993; killing 6 people and injuring over 1,000 more;
a thwarted attempt to blow up 12 planes heading from the Philippines to the U.S. in January, 1995;
an attack on Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and injuring hundreds more;
the bombings of U.S. Embassy buildings in Kenya and Tanzania in 1995, killing 12 Americans and 200 Kenyans and Tanzanians;
a thwarted attempt by Ahmed Ressam to attack Los Angeles international airport in late 1999;
a suicide boat bombing against the U.S.S. Cole on October 12, 2000, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others.37
Additionally, there is well-documented evidence that Osama Bin Laden has repeatedly organized and prompted attacks against the United States. His role as a financier for major terrorist organizations and the leader of al Qaeda is well-established. Bin Laden issued a 1996 fatwa officially declaring a jihad against the United States, and a second fatwa in 1998 declaring “to kill the Americans and their allies — civilian and military is an individual duty for any Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.”38 Since bin-Laden and al Qaeda have officially claimed responsibility for the attacks of 9/11, there is no point in seeking alternative theories.39

The best explanation for the events of 9/11 is that it was the latest and most damaging attack yet in a series of attacks by radical Islamic terrorists who wish to end what they believe is an evil U.S. foreign policy. As a nation, we were psychologically and strategically unprepared for this attack due to our failure to acknowledge the seriousness of the threat. Sadly, the 9/11 Truth Movement continues to divert its gaze from the real problems, preferring the solace of delusions to reality.

Conclusion: The Power of Conspiracy Theories
This article has analyzed the arguments of the 9/11 Truth Movement and found them lacking. Yet, the 400 people who attended the conference and the thousands of others who support their efforts find these theories convincing, and the reason does not necessarily seem to be grounded in common political ideology. Based on my informal survey of the crowd at the Hyatt conference, I noted that attendees seemed to come from each extreme of the political spectrum. There were representatives of the far right who decry any form of government authority, but there were also members of the far left waging a tireless campaign against the perceived evils of capitalism and imperialism. We need to return to a question posed near the beginning of this discussion: Why do so many intelligent and promising people find these theories so compelling?

There are several possible answers to this question, none of them necessarily exclusive of the others. One of the first and most obvious is distrust of the American government in general, and the Bush administration in particular. This mistrust is not entirely without basis. The American government deceived its citizens about the real human costs of Vietnam, and resorted to military tactics that were ethically questionable even by the standards of war. The revelations of Watergate, the Iran-Contra scandal, and other nefarious schemes great and small have understandably eroded public confidence in government. Couple that with an administration, that took office after the most controversial presidential election in more than a century, and one that backed out of international agreements such as the Kyoto Protocol, misled citizens about the science of global warming and stem cell research, initiated a war in Iraq based on unsupportable “intelligence” about weapons of mass destruction, and failed to respond in adequately to the effects of a hurricanes in the Gulf Coast, and you have strong motivations for suspicion.40 (Suffice it to say, admiration for George W. Bush is not my motivation for defending him against the claims of conspiracy theorists).

However, there are a few things to be said about suspicion. First, there is the simple philosophical point that suspicion alone demonstrates nothing — any theory needs evidence in its favor if it is to be taken seriously. Second, the mistakes made by our government in the past are qualitatively different from a conscious decision to kill thousands of its own citizens in order to justify the oppression of others. Most importantly, there is the fact that most of what we know about the bad decisions made by our government is only knowable due to the relative transparency with which our government operates, and the freedom to disseminate and discuss this information.

The full irony of this last point hit me while I was at the conference. Here was a group of about 400 people gathered to openly discuss the evil schemes of the U.S. government, whom they accuse of horrible atrocities in the service of establishing a police state. But if America really was a police state with such terrible secrets to protect, surely government thugs would have stormed the lecture halls and arrested many of those present, or would at the very least have conducted behind the scenes arrests and jailed the movement’s leaders. Yet even the most vocal leaders of the 9/11 Truth Movement are still going strong, and no one at the conference seemed very worried about government reprisals. This fact seemingly indicates that at some level, the conspiracy theorists themselves don’t really believe what they are saying.

Another reason for the appeal of 9/11 conspiracies is that they are easy to understand. As previously mentioned, most Americans did not know or care to know much about the Middle East until the events of 9/11 forced them to take notice. (The brilliant satirical newspaper The Onion poked fun at this fact with its article “Area Man Acts Like He’s Been Interested In Afghanistan All Along”).41 The great advantage of the 9/11 Truth Movement’s theories is that they don’t require you to know anything about the Middle East, or for that matter, to know anything significant about world history or politics. This points to another benefit of conspiracy theories — they are oddly comforting. Chaotic, threatening events are difficult to comprehend, and the steps we might take to protect ourselves are unclear. With conspiracy theory that focuses on a single human cause, the terrible randomness of life assumes an understandable order.

The great writer Thomas Pynchon memorably expressed this point in his novel Gravity’s Rainbow: “If there is something comforting — religious, if you want — about paranoia, there is still also anti-paranoia, where nothing is connected to anything, a condition not many of us can bear for long.”42 The promiscuity of conspiracy theories toward evidence thus becomes part of their appeal — they can link virtually any ideas of interest to the theorist into a meaningful whole. This point was illustrated nicely during the Q & A session following the conference screening of Rick Siegel’s Eyewitness: Hoboken. An attendee wanted to know what role the Freemasons played in the plot, and seemed very concerned that Siegel’s account had neglected them. After waffling on the answer for a few moments without appeasing his questioner, Siegel finally relented and said, “Sure, they’re involved.” And why not? With the standards of evidence used by conspiracy theorists, there is no reason why the Freemasons, the Bavarian Illuminati, or the Elders of Zion cannot also be involved in the 9/11 plot — it just depends on what you find the most solace in believing. As it turns out, some conspiracy theorists do throw one or more of these other parties into the mix, as a popular and bogus rumor that 4,000 Jews mysteriously failed to come to work on 9/11 shows.43

Solace is something all of us needed after the horrible events of 9/11, and each of us is entitled to a certain degree of freedom in its pursuit. However, there is no moral right to seek solace at the expense of truth, especially if the truth is precisely what we most need to avoid the mistakes of the past. Truth matters for its own sake, but it also matters because it is our only defense against the evils of those who cynically exploit truth claims to serve their own agendas. It is concern for the truth that leads us to criticize our own government when necessary, and to insist that others who claim to do so follow the same rigorous standards of evidence and argument. 9/11 was a powerful reminder of how precious and fragile human life and liberty are — the greatest possible rebuke to those who would live in service to delusions.

References & Notes
2005. “9/11: Debunking the Myths.” Popular Mechanics. March, 2005.
Heller, David. 2005. “Taking a Closer Look: Hard Science and the Collapse of the World Trade Center.” Garlic & Grass, Issue 6. Available at
This is clearly visible in the PBS NOVA Documentary Why The Towers Fell.
2005. “9/11: Debunking the Myths.” Popular Mechanics. March, 2005.
Eager, Thomas and Musso, Christopher. 2001. “Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse: Science, Engineering and Speculation.” JOM, 53(12), 8–11.
Jones, Steven. 2006. “Why Indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse?” Available at
A good discussion of this issue can be found at
This claim can be found at
“World Trade Center Task Force Interview: Richard Banaciski.” Interview conducted on December 6, 2001. Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason. Available at
“America Rebuilds,” PBS Home Video, ISBN 0-7806-4006-3, is available from
A discussion of the “pull it” phrase by professional demolition workers is at 20050327052408/
See “9/11 Revealed? A New Book Repeats False Con-spiracy Theories.” At
“World Trade Center Task Force Interview: Daniel Nigrois.” Interview conducted on October 24, 2001. The text of the interview is available at 20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/
“World Trade Center Task Force Interview: Richard Banaciski.” Interview conducted on December 6, 2001. Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason. Available at 20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/
Read almost anything at for this idea
The FEMA report on WTC 7 is available at
Meyssan, Thierry. 2002. Pentagate. New York: USA Books.
The transcript:
2005. “9/11: Debunking the Myths.” Popular Mechanics. March, 2005.
The claim that Flight 93 landed safely is at The claim that it was shot by a missile can be found at
A description of the confusion between the planes is in Kropko, M.R. 2002. “September 11 Tension Vivid to Controller.” Associated Press, August 15, 2002. The story is also available online at
2005. “9/11: Debunking the Myths.” Popular Mechanics. March, 2005.
One such claim can be found at
2005. “9/11: Debunking the Myths.” Popular Mechanics. March, 2005.
See “AMR Corp Issues 3Q’ 2001 Profit Warning.” Airline Industry Information, September 11, 2001. Available at For a general contemporary assessment of the viability of airline industry in the months before 9/11, see Hamilton, Adam. 2001. “Plummeting Profits.” Zeal Speculation and Investment. June 22, 2001, available at
Schorow, Stephanie. 2002. “Independent Research.” Boston Herald. 5 September (Arts & Life). A sound recording of Kenney’s statement can be heard at
This list is based on information in Strasser, Steven (ed.). 2004. The 9/11 Investigations: Staff Reports of the 9/11 Commission. New York: Public Affairs Books. More information about radical Islam can be found in Rashid, Ahmed. 2001. Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia. New York: Yale University Press.
This quote can be found in many sources, including Strasser, Steven (ed.). 2004. The 9/11 Investigations: Staff Reports of the 9/11 Commission. New York: Public Affairs Books.
Bamer, David. 2001. “Bin Laden: Yes, I Did It.” The Telegraph. November 11.
One source among many possible for this information is Alterman, Eric and Green, Mark. 2004. The Book on Bush: How George W. (Mis)leads America. New York: Penguin.
This hilarious article is at
Pynchon, Thomas. 1973. Gravity’s Rainbow. New York: Viking Press.
See, for instance, “Absent Without Leave” at the Urban Legends Reference Pages:
In addition to the specific sources cited above, readers seeking responsible analysis of the claims of the 9/11 Truth Movement can use the following general sources:
The Urban Legends Reference Pages, containing entries about conspiracy claims such as the put options, the alleged early arrival of FEMA and the Pentagon attack. The forum also contains some intelligent discussion of conspiracy theories.
This is a viewer’s guide to the documentary “Loose Change,” which contains many of the conspiracy claims discussed in this article.
A great general source for all manner of conspiracy claims.

Two courteous options:

1) Get registered and post a blog.

2) Post a link with a brief description.

These are the two polite ways to introduce material like this, rather than dumping a massive stinking pile of crap evidently authored by someone else in the middle of our discussion.

9/11 Conspiracies And Cons

The Rove Campaign Andrew

The Rove Campaign

Andrew Sullivan | September 11 2006

Next week, I'm informed via troubled White House sources, will see the full unveiling of Karl Rove's fall election strategy. He's intending to line up 9/11 families to accuse McCain, Warner and Graham of delaying justice for the perpetrators of that atrocity, because they want to uphold the ancient judicial traditions of the U.S. military and abide by the Constitution. He will use the families as an argument for legalizing torture, setting up kangaroo courts for military prisoners, and giving war crime impunity for his own aides and cronies. This is his "Hail Mary" move for November; it's brutally exploitative of 9/11; it's pure partisanship; and it's designed to enable an untrammeled executive. Decent Republicans, Independents and Democrats must do all they can to expose and resist this latest descent into political thuggery. If you need proof that this administration's first priority is not a humane and effective counter-terror strategy, but a brutal, exploitative path to retaining power at any price, you just got it.

I've just started listening to Democracy Now....and...

Why in the world would they start this show with an excerpt about Flight 93?!?!?!

Because it's Amy's show and

Because it's Amy's show and she's a left gatekeeper.

The arrogancy of POPULAR MECHANICS...

These POPULAR MECHANICS representatives, especially the editor of the fake "debunking" book, are extremely arrogant.

Why listen to Democracy Now, it's on video

Goodman's show is also for tv and is video. Watch the video version becasue she did show clips from Loose Change!

Listened and will now be Watching DEMOCRACY NOW...

I just finished listening to the debate.

I must say I am VERY impressed with how artfully and intelligently both Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery proceeded in the debate. Amy Goodman was polite and did not have the condescending tone she used with David Ray Griffin.

I am looking forward to watching the debate.

Thank you, Dylan and Jason, for doing a beautiful job!


Live c-span link;

Edit: "Could be wrong, they did say calling for a new investigation at 1pm though"

National Press Club Speech
September 11 Terrorist Attacks
National Press Club, Luncheon Speech
Thomas H. Kean , National Cmsn. on Terrorist Attacks
Lee H. Hamilton , National Cmsn. on Terrorist Attacks
The beginning and end of this live program may be earlier or later than the scheduled times.

i'm going to record it via a

i'm going to record it via a digital camera, anyone got a video capture card that is gunna grab it instead?

ReplayTV over here

At least the Press for Truth one; don't give a shit about the 9/11 commissioners. Can't promise I will be able to upload it right away but I will try.

Confirmed, the one at 11 is

Confirmed, the one at 11 is the press for the truth press club. Indeed f*ck the commission’s event lol. Although it might be worth checking because someone might protest it or ask those bitches a real question etc.

NBC anchor: WTC collapse

NBC anchor: WTC collapse planned"

"This was clearly -- the way the structure is collapsing -- this was the result of something that was planned. This is not, it's not accidental that the first tower just happened to collapse and then the second tower just happened to collapse in exactly the same way. How they accomplished this, we don't know. But clearly this is what happened." ... (more)

Where is the Video of the Democracy Now throwdown?

Reading the positive comments here and at is making me very eager to see it. I hope that if its half as good as the early buzz that those who spent a lot of time dissing Dylan here will come out and give him (and Jason) their props.

Everyone who can put together a polite email should take the time to send a letter of thanks to Amy Goodman for providing that forum. I know she's taken a beating from 911 Truthers for being a 'left gatekeeper' and for her half-contemptuous handling of David Ray Griffin, but she deserves our gratitude for letting the subject be discussed- particular on the 5 year anniversary show- before her audience. That she would allow this to happen is truly historic.

What is *really* surprising about this is how this debate is being framed at They're calling it an "EXCLUSIVE"! (Jeez- they could've had that EXCLUSIVE for the past year! ) What does it say that Goodman would frame the debate this way? That they KNOW it's going to be hugely popular?

BTW - the debate is online now... (here is the link). Off to listen.

Bob Scheer on board?

Robert Scheer: Gaping Holes in the 9/11 Narrative
A Dig led by Robert Scheer

Five years out from the attacks, why do we still know so little about what really happened that day?

Truth rally yesterday at Cooper Union NYC

I went to the rally yesterday at Cooper Union in NYC. It was really inspiring.

One thing is clear: This is a PEOPLE'S movement!!! There were all kinds of people there, young, old, black, brown, white, professional, non-professional. I was very happy to see that it wasn't just a bunch of 30-something white guys like me.

Thanks everyone for organizing it. I'm very sorry that I couldn't make the protest this morning. How is it going? How did it go?

Democracy Now

Well, I haven't had a chance yet to watch or hear the Amy Goodman debate. But I see that Davin Colburn was dropped, right? It looks like Popular Mechanics is taking this seriously now, sending in some senior editors, rather than their twit intern. We've got them sweating, no doubt. Congrats, everyone!

9/11 Press for Truth press

9/11 Press for Truth press conference on CSPAN1 now

Subliminable Message

Flood C-SPAN lines with your comments

Right after this event 8am, there will be open lines

Flood the CSPAN lines with your comments:

202-737-0001 "Support Bush" - say you do to get on
202-737-0002 "Support Democrats" - say you do to get on
202-628-0205 - support others - you can get on no matter what


[dz: comment removed - profanity and adhomenum attacks]

DRG and Shayler on BBC

Kyle Hence

and Paul Thompson are kicking ass on C-Span.

God bless the Truth Movement.

Donna Marsh O'Conner

is kicking ass now.

She's the mother of someone who died at the WTC and she's sick of being called a conspiracy theorist when she asks questions.

Donna Marsh O'Conner FANTASTIC live on C-Span now!!!

Wow, Donna Marsh O'Conner FANTASTIC live on C-Span now!!!

Michelle Little just

Michelle Little just followed up and questioned WTC7.

This woman is incredible


Wow. Quick thought....

Swarm Amy Goodman with calls to have Donna Marsh O'Conner on Democracy Now. She is an excellent speaker.

i agree, Donna Marsh

i agree, Donna Marsh O'Connor is an amazing woman. i dont understand why shes not in the film.

Yet another idea

I think the interview went quite well.

Notice that PM would not return a "specific" answer when challenged. But, instead, changed the subject or attempted to throw unrelated facts. Next time (and this is what I'd like to see in a Presidential debate) you stay on “the” question until it’s fully answered – questions are known in advance and the debaters come to the table with everything they have – paper, video, audio, whatever.
Overall, good job – alas, the only thing that will settle this is an "independent" investigation.

I have a closing comment and suggestion with regard to the fuel issues addressed in the interview and Dr. Jones could get this done for sure:

1) Calculate the size of the "fireball" to determine how much fuel was consumed externally.

2) Take the net difference and model how much surface area the remaining fuel would cover.

3) Calculate flame travel and burn duration – how far down the structure could this liquid travel

4) Obtain a similar piece of steel (same dimensions as the box columns) and place this specimen steel in a hydraulic press and load it to maximum columbar stress - now apply the flame.

If this collapses with atmospheric oxygen should we expect a barbeque or wood stove to melt?

These tests would provide conclusive evidence and should be done in a laboratory setting and filmed.

quivering, tactical, media rant

Commentary and drivel

Korey looses his cool,COOL!???

Perhaps he will be able to prove the man is a liar, but he was provoked into that. Those guys were tough they meant to provoke him and they did. Bet he was asking for it he was itching for a fight. Dylan did better but we have got to be ery careful who represents us from now on. Dylan a and Korey deserved their day and they got it, now we can debunk the lies!YEAH! Something big is happening I can just feelit. God I wish I waZs o the streeets of NY today.
I called the local KPFT station here in Houston and thanked them for AMY finally letting the gate open. Underwriters labratories does not test steel? What does everyb ody think about the actual debate?

Great debate, indeed.

I just finished listening to it, and I'm thrilled. It wasn't just that the substance of the debate was great and provocative- though it certainly was- it was the style of it. The contrast between the parties and personalities was so striking.

The Popular Mechanics folks came across so incredibly poorly- one because of his absolute arrogance, the other because of his weasely oilyness. Meanwhile, Bermas' burned with righteous indignation and Dylan managed to be cool and above all cautious- trying to steer the conversation away from the realm of the fantastic and wildly speculative.

Any reasonable listener will walk away- at a minimum- very troubled and I daresay many will be greatly angered. Popular Mechanics made a HUGE MISTAKE likening those who doubt the official story to creationists and holocaust deniers- given that it is an absolute certainty that the vast majority of Goodman's audience rejects the government account of 9/11 (regardless of whether they have a LIHOP or MIHOP worldview).

Congratulations Dylan and Jason. You just scored a major victory in an incredibly decisive battlefield, and you deserve a hearty congratulations from everybody here.


Thta's a great point, it shoes how desperate they are, they are likening them to holocost deniers, Well that's their final ace and it''s been played, now it's time to demeand to tcall their bluff.
P>S> Coast to coast tonight with Lisa Gulianai?
I wish someone would report in from NY .
Your right though the guys did a good enough job, and they actually resorted to calling him a holocost denier!

suspect radio caller

I nornally don't normally don't listen to the local right wing radio nut (John Gormley at but I happened to just before 9:00 am MT. The show today was all about 9/11 of course. A caller came on with the smoothest patter. The jist of his story was that he was back in Saskatchewan on 9/11 visiting and was watching the events with his father, a building contractor. His father with all his professional expertise was predicting the towers would collapse and the caller didn't believe it was possible. Sure enough the towers collapse and the callers closing message was that he should listen to his father. The problem I have is that the caller was just too smooth and cadenced in his delivery, plus he had a very obvious American accent (to a Canadian ear all American have an accent, the callers was more mid-west). I'm going to scan other radio shows up here for similar callers.

There are lots of very smooth shills out there sowing disinfo...

The caller should've asked his brilliant dad if WTC-7 would collapse too.

Canadian TV poll

Please vote here. I don't like the biased way they ask the question but the results are piling up.


PM guys

Anyone notice how these PM guys have the same vocal tics & tone as White House Press guys?

twin collapses unlikely

CNN has the real-time coverage on their Web-pipeline. It just struck me what makes the official version fundamentally suspicious is the fact that two skyscrapers (the 2 twins) had subsequently the same fate: hit by a plane, fireball , burning, collapse straight down. - this was a big mistake by the conspirators: had just one such building been attacked, e.g. the Empire State Building, but you can't have something like it happen *twice* without people wanting to know why.

Good point, and timing. At

Good point, and timing. At the C-SPAN press conference Donna Marsh O'Conner's sister just said, "Nobody should have died in tower two." Indeed.

No Heckling

You mean to tell me that there was NO ONE booing or heckling this retard pres? This is like Charles Manson paying tribute to Sharon Tate. Un-fricking-believable!


That is the inherent problem with the use of "coincidence theory" to explain events that appear to be highly coordinated and unlikey. The official story employs the more logical approach of conspiracy theory to explain the coordinated nature of the simultaneous attacks in NYC and Washington, but then they begin relying on the inherently dubious explaination of coincidence theory to explain all of the other highly suspect, unlikely observations of fact such as the collapse of 3 buildings in a straight-down free-fall manner into their own footprint as a result of localized damage and fires.

The problem is with "coincidence theory" is, since it relies on chance, you reduce its likely hood of its reality as an explanation of events every time you employ it.

Empire State Building

I recall a discussion about wiring the Empire State Building to blow if it became a target again to ensure it didn't topple sideways.

Any comments??

Could they have preset explosives or at least a plan in many different structures to prevent lateral damage?


paul thompson is about to

paul thompson is about to start swinging. the walking talking 9/11 encyclopedia! :)

The dog

that did not bark. Why didn't the secret service remove Bush from the School on the day of the attacks?

The poster that did not link!

press for truth press conference

I just watched the hour-long press conference and thought it was excellent, but what struck me was how few PRESS were in the room. Hard to tell if ANY of them were actually press -- and very few questions during the Q&A session. Paul Thompson looked a bit frustrated at the lack of questions -- BUT he stepped up to the plate and spoke eloquently about a number of issues, all of which support the need for a new investigation. I'm glad C-SPAN ran this -- hopefully this will reach some more people out in the country at large.

Kyle Hence stated at the end that they're going to be delivering a copy of the DVD to each and every member of congress. And he implored people to contact their senators and representatives as part of the campaign to launch a new investigation into 9/11. Please follow his lead and when writing to your congressperson, don't forget to mention the documentary 911: Press for Truth.

I could swear that Kyle

I could swear that Kyle Hence pointed and said, "Dana Milbank" as the microphone was passed to the first questioner. Although I'm not sure I'd call him "actual press" after his hatchet job on people John Conyers and anyone raising issues over the Downing Street Memos last year.

But yeah, low press turnout & few questions. I did notice that the Press for Truth site was loading very slowly before it stopped working at all. I think that's a good sign.

Bush right now in

Bush right now in Shanksville, i guess he just shook hands with the major that said he never saw a plane. Amazingly ridiculous video when you consider it's all a lie - they're standing in a plain field for nothing, for a lie.

Sad day

The Press for truth NPC panel was rather a failure. There were no significant media present etc. All the media hacks were covering the traitor ceremonies incl. parading death uncles Dick, Donald and the W. boy..

In any case cudos to C-Span, Thompson for his research and the courage of the Jeresey girls. Now it's crystal clear we lost the cause and it won't matter if some poll will show in five years we have reached the majority..

In the most optimistic scenario I can see some limited "new investigation" ala HSCA of the 70s which had it both ways in the end (yes to more shooters/conspiracy and yes to magic bullet theory).

But in any case lets circulate the movie perhaps partial justice could be done the more people see it
the more chances are that someone will take individual hard core action against the traitors, which I don't endorse but as the frustration mounts you know what I'm talking about.. is down is down right now. Too many people are trying to access.

Somebody must have been watching...

A new investigation by the

A new investigation by the US government would have been a waste of time anyway. They'd just grab a scapegoat or two and call it a day. The invesgitation must be independent of government officials or experts who currently receive grants from the government. The only way we'll ever see the perps brought to justice is via a military coup. That's not something we should necessariy welcome. Military coups never end well.

The purpose of 911 truth is to expose the tactic of false flags, thereby rendering the weapon of terrorism impotent. Another obvious benefit is that it makes people understand the nature of the gangster state and start looking for alternatives. It's a gateway to the next layer of the onion.

That's all we can ask for at present.


I see it the same way. If the real criminals can participate in ceremonies as the "compassionate" leaders, and even MSM talk shows, without any *pressure* on them because of 9/11 truth, then chances for more progress at the 6th, 7th, ...10th anniversary are low. They said it at, too, that the main achievement is having made a second 9/11 tougher a job for them.

ABC/Disney & The Powers That Be

As governor of Florida, Jeb Bush serves as a trustee for the state employees’ pension fund. That fund owns approximately 7.3 million shares of Disney stock.

Disney’s agreement with the state of Florida “gives the entertainment company near complete control over 40,000 acres” in the central part of the state. Disney’s theme parks operate “free from government oversight – [Disney] is in effect the government – and can do almost whatever it wants with its land.”

So, Florida essentially set up a franchise government called Disney: a state within a state. And the franchise Florida giveth, Florida could taketh away:

According to the 4/28/01 Palm Beach Post, Michael Eisner, in a private speech to Jeb and his executive staff, stressed he was acutely aware “the success and result of [Disney’s] relationship with the state is taken for granted.” A member of Jeb’s staff, apparently appreciative of his remarks, then asked Eisner “what more the state could do for his company.”

In the days after 9/11, many Americans were wondering what they could do to help their country. President Bush urged the country to “Go down to Disney World in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life.”
-- --

The Disney Corporate Timeline:

1955 - Disneyland opens in Anaheim, CA at a cost of $17 million. The ABC television network is partial investor in Disneyland.

1986 - Company changes name from Walt Disney Productions to the Walt Disney Company. Capital Cities Communication, a large broadcasting group, acquires the ABC television network for 3.5 $billion.

1995 - Disney announces its intent to purchase Capital Cities/ABC for $19 billion. The deal is the largest media merger in history to the point and the second largest sum of money ever paid for a U.S. company

-- --

William J. Casey, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, said today that his stock holdings in Capital Cities Communications Inc. were not included in a trust he set up in 1983 because they were too large to meet requirements for such a trust. The C.I.A. issued a statement about the trust arrangement in response to news reports that Mr. Casey, a former director of Capital Cities, holds some 34,000 shares in the company, which last week agreed to acquire the American Broadcasting Companies.

-- --

ABC and the rise of Rush Limbaugh

The following brief history of ABC offers a perfect snapshot of everything that has gone wrong with the media. This remarkable story includes ABC's takeover by a conservative parent corporation, the demise of the Fairness Doctrine, the rightward shift of the evening news, the rise of conservative talk radio, and the cozy relationship between a state and a press that are supposed to be separate.

In 1985, ABC was taken over by Capital Cities, a conservative, Roman Catholic media organization with extensive ties to the CIA.

(If you think we're making this up, you should know that the Capital Cities takeover of ABC is one of the most analyzed in history, and the subject of many books by Wall Street experts and scholars. Especially recommended is Networks of Power, by Emmy Award-winner Dennis Mazzocco.) (1)

Capital Cities was born in 1954, and rapidly prospered. Many of its founders had previously worked in the U.S. intelligence community and had a great amount of wealth, social contacts and influence in government. Yet they opted to keep the company's actions out of the public eye -- they did not flaunt their wealth with private planes and lavish offices the way so many successful companies do. Just exactly how well-connected Capital Cities was to the CIA is unknown, but it is clear that the CIA concerned itself with the company at various times. The fact that the CIA has often used private businessmen, journalists and even entire companies as fronts for covert operations is not only well-known by historians, but legendary. (Recall Howard Hughes and Trans-World Airlines...)

One of Capital City's early founders was William Casey, who would later become Ronald Reagan's Director of the CIA. At the time of Casey's nomination, the press expressed surprise that Reagan would hire a businessman whose last-known intelligence experience was limited to OSS operations in World War II. The fact is, however, that Casey had never left intelligence. Throughout the Cold War he kept a foot in both worlds, in private business as well as the CIA. A history of Casey's business dealings reveals that he was an aggressive player who saw nothing wrong with bending the law to further his own conservative agenda. When he became implicated as a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal, many Washington insiders considered it a predictable continuation of a very shady career.

Another Capital Cities founder, Lowell Thomas, was a close friend and business contact with Allen Dulles, Eisenhower's CIA Director, and John Dulles, the Secretary of State. Thomas always denied being a spy, but he was frequently seen at events involving intelligence operations. Another founder was Thomas Dewey, whom the CIA had given millions to create other front companies for covert operations.

Capital Cities prospered from the start; its specialty was to buy media organizations that were in trouble. Upon acquisition, it would improve management and eliminate waste until the company started turning a profit. This no-nonsense, no-frills approach, as well as its refusal to become side-tracked with other ventures, made it one of the most successful media conglomerates of the 60s and 70s. Of course, the journalistic slant of its companies was decidedly conservative and anticommunist. To anyone who believes that the government should not control the press, the possibility that the CIA created a media company to dispense conservative and Cold War propaganda should be alarming. Rush Limbaugh himself calls freedom of the press "the sweetest -- and most American -- words you will ever find." (2) Apparently, he is unaware of the history of his own employers.

By the 1980s, Capital Cities had grown powerful enough that it was now poised to hunt truly big game: a major television network. A vulnerable target appeared in the form of ABC, whose poor management in the early 80s was driving both its profits and stocks into oblivion. Back then, ABC's journalistic slant was indeed liberal; its criticism of the Reagan Administration had drawn the wrath of conservatives everywhere, from Wall Street to Washington. This was in marked contrast to the rest of the White House press corps, which was, in Bagdikian's words, "stunningly uncritical" of Reagan. Behind the scenes, Reagan was deregulating the FCC and eliminating anti-monopoly laws for the media, a fact the media appreciated and rewarded. The only exception was ABC. Sam Donaldson's penetrating questions during press conferences were so embarrassing to Reagan that his handlers scheduled the fewest Presidential press conferences in modern history.

Another controversy involving the liberal slant of ABC was its airing of the anti-nuclear war movie The Day After. This movie angered conservatives like Henry Kissinger, who believe that the willingness to use nuclear weapons is actually a deterrence to war. But Kissinger got a chance to respond to the movie on national television. Nightline followed the movie with a group discussion that included Kissinger and other conservative pundits. The reason why ABC was so even-handed, presenting both a liberal and conservative viewpoint on nuclear war, was because they were required to by law: the Fairness Doctrine.

The Fairness Doctrine was repealed in 1987 by the FCC. Reagan had staffed the FCC with prominent media businessmen who were intent on slashing government regulations… the equivalent of letting the fox guard the chicken coop. Among the many other regulations slashed during the Reagan years were anti-trust laws that prevented the media from becoming a monopoly. Much of this was done under heavy pressure by corporate lobbyists.

In this atmosphere of deregulation, Capital Cities found the perfect time to take over ABC. Not only were all the legal restrictions removed, but by now Casey was head of the CIA, and whatever contacts existed between the CIA and Casey's company (in which Casey held substantial stock) were immeasurably strengthened. Capital Cities soon began buying out ABC stock. The facts of the acquisition remain curious and unconventional. Capital Cities was only one-fourth the size of ABC, and there were much wealthier corporate giants who were salivating over a plum like a television network. But word got out on Wall Street that the Capital Cities takeover bid was "protected" by Warren Buffet, a legendary trader often described as the "Darling of Wall Street." (Until 1995, Buffet was the richest man in America.) With Buffet's help, Capital Cities took over ABC. According to one source, a high-ranking CIA official teased Casey, saying, "I understand Sam Donaldson is working for you now."

Sam Donaldson would not be tormenting Republican presidents for long. By the Bush Presidency, Donaldson was removed from covering the White House and paired with Diane Sawyer in a weekly news magazine that covered political fluff. Brit Hume, a staunch conservative, would take his place, and the same torment that ABC once reserved for Ronald Reagan would now be directed towards Bill Clinton.

The new conservatism at ABC was subtle but apparent. Peter Jennings, noting that the program's "American Agenda" had a liberal slant, stated that the news would pay more attention to conservatives, since their ideas are "more provocative and less predictable on some issues."

During the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Washington Post TV critic Tom Shales noted that of all the networks, ABC was the "friendliest to and least critical of the Bush Administration and its policies." After the war, ABC marketed a video of General Schwartzkopf's famous briefing of the war, entitled "Schwartzkopf: How the War was Won." It sold 80,000 copies. Later, it would market a video on life and times of Richard Nixon.

It would be wrong, of course, to conclude that ABC had gone Attila the Hun. ABC News remained a source of somewhat balanced coverage; both Sam Donaldson and George Will continued to do battle every Sunday on This Week With David Brinkley. Indeed, some of the most scientific pieces warning about the destruction of the ozone layer came from ABC. The owners at Capital Cities/ABC couldn't make the Evening News blatantly conservative because such a change would be too controversial. But this did not defeat their effort. They could still create a conservative forum from scratch, and in this regard, the dying market of AM radio offered the opportunity of a lifetime.

There are about 11,000 radio stations in the U.S., and Capital Cities/ABC is by far the largest player. Either through outright ownership or the sale of numerous services, they reach about half the radio stations in America, and this number is growing. With the Fairness Doctrine repealed, Capital Cities was able in 1988 to begin broadcasting one-sided editorials on conservatism. ABC Radio Network President Edward McLaughlin scoured the nation's radio stations for conservative talent, and his search led him to Sacramento, to a little known disc-jockey named Rush Limbaugh. Rush had attracted an audience with his vigorous and spirited defense of Oliver North during the Iran-Contra hearings. McLaughlin brought him to New York City for a one-month "on-air" trial at Capital Cities/ABC's flagship radio station, WABC. For the next two years, ABC put him on the fast track, handling all his marketing, advertising and promotion. For legal purposes, and to protect ABC's image of supposed objectivity, Rush formed his own media company, Excellence in Broadcasting. But to this day Rush continues to broadcast out of WABC's studios in New York.

ABC initially promoted Rush by arranging his appearance on other debating shows, from Nightline to Donahue to MacNeil/Lehrer. (Unfortunately, he did so poorly against real live experts that this practice was eventually stopped.) Perhaps the most eye-brow raising example of Rush's promotion was when he appeared on an episode of ABC's 20/20 for an interview with Barbara Walters. Given Rush's criticism of feminists as "feminazis," this interview was built up as a confrontation between a female reporter in the mainstream media and Rush's supposedly misogynist views. The fact that Barbara Walters herself is conservative was nowhere mentioned. During the interview, Rush came across as charming, humorous, reasonable and moderate, and Walters closed the segment by stating that she actually liked him.

Ted Koppel's incessant praise of Rush Limbaugh is also an attempt to bring him into the mainstream. The back cover of See, I Told You So blurbs: "As no less a liberal than Ted Koppel... said, 'You ignore him at your peril.'" On television, Koppel has laughed with admiration over Limbaugh, calling him "terribly articulate." But the anchor of Nightline is far from liberal; indeed, Rush Limbaugh had to publicly apologize to Koppel for calling him one. And researchers have criticized Nightline for featuring a highly disproportionate number of experts who are white male conservatives.

Rush Limbaugh explains his success as the result of his individualism, of his refusal to do it someone's else's way. But the fact is that his success has been orchestrated, financed and promoted by Capital Cities/ABC. He also seems extraordinarily well-connected to the Republican leadership in Washington, carrying out their campaign strategies so faithfully that it is difficult to distinguish his promotions from their campaign commercials. For example, when Rush's television show debuted nationally two months before the 92 election, his producer was Roger Ailes, who was Bush's media advisor throughout the campaign. Many of the themes that Ailes had inspired earlier in the campaign showed up in identical form on Rush's show, which resembled a program-length commercial for the Bush campaign. When asked to give equal time to his opponents, Rush responded "I am equal time!"

In 1994, not only the Rush Limbaugh Show, but hundreds of other conservative talk shows dutifully raised the issues that Newt Gingrich's Contract Information Center faxed to them each morning about the Contract With America. Many went so far as to read them verbatim over the air. And when the Republicans captured Congress in 1994, they held a ceremony in honor of Limbaugh, naming him "an honorary member of Congress" and "the Majority Maker." That night, the conservative propaganda machine had reached its full potential.

-- --

Mr. Casey was chairman of the executive committee of the Office of the Presidentelect, chairman of the Interim Foreign Policy Advisory Board, and a member of the Transition Appointments Committee. He is counsel to the law firm of Rogers & Wells of New York and Washington.

From April 1971 to January 1976, Mr. Casey served as President and Chairman of the Export-Import Bank of the United States, Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, and Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. From 1969 to 1977, he served on a number of Presidential commissions, including the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, the Commission on Organization for the Conduct of Foreign Policy, the General Advisory Committee on Arms Control, and the Presidential Task Force on International Development.

-- --

One of the milestones in Capital Cities growth was securing the rights to broadcast the Adolf Eichmann trial, a gem of an acquisition that must have been aided by Casey or Dulles, or both. Even though Cap Cities owned only a small number of stations it was chosen over many larger and more appropriate networks to become the world producer and broadcaster of this event by the government of Israel. The incredible publicity given to the trial of the former Nazi gave the young company credibility and recognition.

-- snip --

By 1977, Cap Cities also had bought a few important newspaper holdings e.g. The Fort Worth Star Telegram and The Kansas City Star. It also bought into cable companies in the seventies. And through these latter two acquisitions, it began another popular modern practice: cross-platforming of the news. That is, having its print companies provide copy for its cable news outlets. This of course rapidly accelerated to the point that today many stories, across many media platforms --- cable news, newspapers, Internet --- differ very little in content and phrasing.

One of the most revealing acquisitions of Capital Cities was its purchase of The Wilkes Barre Times Leader in 1978. This episode in the company's history is described in detail in the book by Thomas J. Keil entitled On Strike! Capital Cities and the Wilkes Barre Newspaper Unions. Like many major media companies, although Cap Cities had little difficulty paying executives like Burke and Murphy millions, it repeatedly denied union requests for higher wages, benefits, and better working conditions. Yet, it managed to keep negative publicity of these denials to a minimum. Except in the Wilkes Barre case.

As Keil writes, the newspaper had to "control costs, increase productivity, improve the quality of the paper, and expand its market" in order to justify the Cap Cities expenditure. But the union in this small Pennsylvania town saw a secret agenda at work. They felt that by moving the paper's editorial policy and news agenda in a more conservative direction, Cap Cities was attempting to lower wages and working conditions in the entire area, which was heavily unionized. (One of the company's demands was for more "objective" journalistic practices.) Since the area had been historically involved in serious industrial strikes in coal and steel, it recognized a past corporate parallel in this case. From the conflict that followed, they seem to have been correct.

During the contract struggle, Cap Cities hired security guards, used surveillance cameras, tried to get local authorities involved on their side, and built a 12 foot high fence around the newspaper building. Predictably, it hired the infamous Wackenhut Corporation as its security and investigative arm. (Wackenhut is so tied into the national security state that it is sometimes called The CIA's CIA.) Casey played a large role in this conflict by serving as the Cap Cities counsel and the former counsel for Wackenhut. Therefore Casey was probably key in implementing one of the more controversial practices Wackenhut used leading up to the strike: the employment of virtually all African-American guards over the nearly all-white union ranks. This, of course, tended to foment racial tensions and exacerbate labor-management problems. In addition, Cap Cities wanted to hire part-time workers and install a merit system, thereby weakening the hold the union had in the workplace and increasing their own.

When the strike escalated, and the inevitable violence broke out, Cap Cities grew angry that the local authorities did not help it end the strike by interceding on their side. So they used the newspaper to print a story that there was an FBI investigation pending of the local police for its failure to protect the replacement workers the company had hired. (Wackenhut employed many former employees of the Bureau.) The FBI looked into the matter yet ultimately took no action on the printed charge.

When Keil interviewed some executives on the scene they admitted that the company had badly mishandled the strike. They learned a valuable lesson though. Namely to use more clandestine surveillance in order to remove popular union leaders before the strike reached a crisis stage. This, of course, is what the CIA does for major American corporations abroad.

-- --

The broad topic of the suppression of news by the media was previously debated at CGCS:

-- --

ABC hired me to help produce a story about an investment firm in Hawaii that was heavily involved with the CIA. I had earlier provided the same story to BBC’s Newsnight, which aired it. The story was fully documented, and nobody, including the CIA, was able to disprove the charges. Part of the report charged that the CIA had plotted to assassinate an American, Ron Rewald, the president of [the investment firm]. The ABC report provoked a brutal response from the CIA. The CIA demanded a full retraction without providing any counterproof other than their denial. (pp. 130, 131)

At the center of the uproar was Scott Barnes who said on camera that the CIA had asked him to kill Rewald. After the show aired, CIA officials met with ABC News executive David Burke. They presented no evidence to counter the charges made in the program. Nonetheless, Burke was sufficiently impressed “by the vigor with which they made their case” to order an on-air “clarification” in which Peter Jennings acknowledged the CIA’s position but stood by the story. But that was not good enough. [CIA Director William] Casey called ABC Chairman Leonard H. Goldenson. The call led to three meetings between ABC officials and Stanley Sporkin, CIA general counsel. On November 21, 1984, despite all the documented evidence presented in the program, Peter Jennings reported that ABC could no longer substantiate the charges, and that “We have no reason to doubt the CIA’s denial.” He presented no evidence supporting the CIA’s position. (pp. 131, 132)

That same day, the CIA filed a formal complaint with the FCC, written by Sporkin and signed by [CIA Director] Casey, charging that ABC had “deliberately distorted” the news. Casey asked that ABC be stripped of its TV and radio licenses. This was the first time in the history of the country that a government agency had formally attacked the press. Yet, there was no uproar. (p. 132)

During this time, Capital Cities Communications was maneuvering to buy ABC. [CIA Director] Casey was one of the founders of Cap Cities. Cap Cities bought ABC for $3.5 billion, which was called a “bargain rate” by the trade media. Besides Casey, two other founders of Cap Cities had extensive ties to the intelligence community. Within months, the entire investigative unit [of ABC] was dispersed, and the commentator on the Rewald program was assigned to covering beauty pageants. Needless to say, my contract was not renewed. (pp. 132, 122)

Anyone talked to Jon Gold or

Anyone talked to Jon Gold or anyone at Ground Zero? I wonder how many Truthers are out in mass today? When is Immortal Technique going to play?

Please explain DNA results to me?

Can someone please explain to me how 99% of all the passengers & crew were identified through DNA at Shanksville & the Pentagon "crashes"??? There were no significant airliner parts, seats, luggage, etc., but they IDed all those people? How can this be possible?

Everyone seems afraid of this issue...

How come everyone seem afraid to address the obviously fabricated DNA results? Is this smoking-gun too hot to handle???

What is the Wanta Plan?

What is the Wanta Plan?

has anybody got more information on this?

go to

truthout -- f'd up as ever

Just saw this ridiculous piece over at truthout, by the director Marc Ash. If anyone ever wanted to know why they don't run 9/11 truth pieces, just read how ignorant Ash is in this article.

In this report, we will attempt to clarify to the best of our ability what brought about the attacks of September 11th, 2001. ... We will proceed on the premise that persons of Islamic faith and militant resistance to American and Western influence in Islamic countries did carry out the attacks of September 11th, 2001.

September 11, Our Report
by Marc Ash

Damn, talk about bearing false witness against Muslims...

Damn, talk about bearing false witness against Muslims/Islam... you couldn't do it any better than that diabolical liar, Marc Ash!

Bush did not plan it, did not let it happen but he provoked it

and failed to defend against it.

I'm going to say this no matter who does not want to see this. The 9-11 attacks appeared as blowback for secret foreign policy between George W Bush and his Republican party and the Taliban terrorists and their Al Qaeda friends. 9-11 did not appear unprovoked. 9-11 happened for a reason.

What did George W Bush do between Jan 21, 2001 and July 2001? He negotiated with the Taliban terrorist government for the right for the US oil companies to buiild gas and oil pipelines across Afghanistan. In July 2001, the Taliban would not go along with any deal after months of negotiations. The frustrated Bush administration warned the Pakistanis in Germany in July 2001 at a diplomatic meeting, that the Taliban refused to attend, that The US would invade Afghanistan unless the Taliban went along with these pipeline projects, and to tell the Taliban this. When the Pakistanis informed the Taliban of the impending invasion, the Taliban did not wait, they got their friends Al Qaeda led by Osama Bin laden and Struck us first.

I doubt that the 9-11 attacks would have occurred if George W Bush had not pressured the Taliban to accept oil pipeline building contracts, under threat of invasion.

John Charles Brisard and Guilliaume Dasquie wrote a book "Forbidden Truth: SECRET US - TALIBAN Oil diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for Bin Laden" You can obtain it from

Both Bin Laden and George W Bush bear responsibility for these 9-11 deaths and the attacks that caused them.

Call for the resignation of Bush and Cheney.

Consider this a referendum on the combined impeachment, conviction, resignation of George W Bush and Richard Cheney.

I report, you decide. Pass this text to the ends of the country east, west, north and south.

Resolved that we call for the resignation of George W bush and Richard Cheney for:

1. Starting an invasion of a country based upon lies and that did not attack ours.

2. Wiretapping of people within the United States without obtaining warrants for such wiretaps.

If you do not consent to this call for the resignation simply do nothing.

If you do consent to the call for resignation of George W Bush and Richard B Cheney based
upon the two charges listed above

Call each of Rush Limbaugh's sponsors. Demand they get Bush and Cheney to resign and until they resign you will not ever buy their products again until they accomplish the demand. Spread the word. This referendum shall stand or fall based upon the merits and each citizen will decide. Please spread this text throughout the net and post in libraries, town meeting, supermarkets, everywhere in the United States of America.

Rush Limbaugh's advertisers

Tell them you have called them because they advertise on Rush Limbaugh's show and they help advance the Republican agenda.

Bose Wave Radio 508-766-7781

Lending Tree (704) 541-5351

Life Quotes 1-800-670-5433

Select Comfort 763-551-7460
(customer comments and service email)

300 N. Lake Ave., Suite 1111
Pasadena, CA 91101
FAX 626.585.4040

Inverness Medical (maker of stresstabs)
51 Sawyer Road
Waltham, MA 02021
1-800-899-7353 weekdays, 8 am. - 6 p.m. (Eastern Time.)


Hotwire Corporate Headquarters
333 Market Street, Suite 100
San Francisco, CA 94105
1-877-HOTWIRE (468-9473)

Sleep Number Bed

The Neptune Society of Northern California
Stewart Enterprises
12070 Telegraph Road ..107
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670

Oreck Upright Vacuum Cleaners
Oreck Corporation
100 Plantation Road
New Orleans, Louisiana 70123
Online contact form

Smart & Final
Customer Relations
PO Box 512377
Los Angeles, CA 91001-0377
(Heard on KFI 640 in Los Angeles)

Mid-West Life Insurance Company of Tennessee
9151 Grapevine Hwy.
North Richland Hills, TX 76180
Phone (800) 733-1110
(web banner ads on

AutoZone Inc.
P.O. Box 2198
Memphis, TN 38101
Phone (901) 495-7185
Fax (901) 495-8374

UPDATED - Citracal - Mission Pharmacal
Bennett Kennedy - Citracal Product Manager
Mission Pharmacal
P.O. Box 786099
San Antonio, TX 78278-6099
Phone:(800) 531-3333



Red Lobster
Write to:
P.O. Box 593330
Orlando, FL 32859-3330
Guest Relations Hotline
1-800-LOBSTER (1-800-562-7837)

Lumber Liquidators
Toll Free: 877-645-5347
Contact list:

Avacor (hair loss treatment)
(customer comments email)

Lazerguide® (golf instruction tool)
PO Box 807
New Hudson Michigan 48165
1-877-266-6430 (toll free)

Mission Pharmacal Company
10999 IH-10 West Suite 1000
San Antonio, TX 78230
Telephone: (800) 531-3333

General Steel Metal Buildings
1075 South Yukon, Ste. 250
Lakewood, Colorado 80226
Toll Free: 1-888-98-STEEL
Phone: 303-904-4837
Fax: 303-979-0084

Life Quotes, Inc.
32045 Castle Court
Evergreen, CO 80439

Select Comfort Corporation
6105 Trenton Lane N
Minneapolis, MN 55442
Phone: 763-551-7000
Fax: 763-551-7826

Scottrade Inc
12855 Flushing Meadows Drive
Saint Louis, MO 63131
1-800-619-SAVE, Inc.
1 Civic Center Plaza, Suite 506
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601

The Swap Shop
3291 East Sunrise
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Phone - 954.791.$WAP

Pfizer Inc
235 East 42nd Street
New York, NY 10017

George Dubya Bush didn’t

George Dubya Bush didn’t provoke a damn thing, he was Governor of Texas putting people to death and snorting coke, while "Osama" was allegedly finding justification for an attack on the US. If your talking about American Foreign Policy, then that's another issue. And his father Bush sr certainly contributed to the now massive anti-American sentiment felt in the Arab world. But for you to come here and state absolutes like,

"Bush did not plan it, did not let it happen but he provoked it, and failed to defend against it."

Shows you have an invalid stance. I think you need to take a second look at 9/11, start looking at the research that has been done contradicting the official story. A lot of people who question 9/11 thought as you do now, so its hypocritical for anyone to say that the shit you wrote is stupid. But honestly if you look at the facts you'll find you are deeply mistaken, 9/11 is incredibly suspect and a new investigation into it is vital.

And hey if this is

And hey if this is true.....

"What did George W Bush do between Jan 21, 2001 and July 2001? He negotiated with the Taliban terrorist government for the right for the US oil companies to buiild gas and oil pipelines across Afghanistan. In July 2001, the Taliban would not go along with any deal after months of negotiations. The frustrated Bush administration warned the Pakistanis in Germany in July 2001 at a diplomatic meeting, that the Taliban refused to attend, that The US would invade Afghanistan unless the Taliban went along with these pipeline projects, and to tell the Taliban this. When the Pakistanis informed the Taliban of the impending invasion, the Taliban did not wait, they got their friends Al Qaeda led by Osama Bin laden and Struck us first."

Then "Osama" provided the Bush Administration with the perfect excuse to get those pipelines. Don't you see that?

PM rhetorical move - watch out for this one

On the Democracy Now interview -- Notice the PM argument that most of the "conspiracy theorists" data is based on the first couple days of reporting, therefore not as reliable as later, "well-researched" reporting.

This is a potentially powerful rhetorical device, and tricky to defuse. I bet we will see it used in the future.

If you reply, "well, that's because it gave time for the 'official story' to be solidified," you're going out on a limb and implicating the entire mass media in a cover-up. Which may of course be true, but makes your position even more doubtful in the eyes of some than it was already.

But if that's the best they can do... Coburn was obviously nervous the whole time. He must really need that promotion. Meigs seems to actually believe the official story.

Transparently weak argument

I was aghast that the PM guys would be so conspicuously stupid.

There is a difference between evidence that requires analysis -- yes, very early, on-the-fly analyses may prove to be in error more often than ones conducted in comparative leisure.

However, eyewitness testimony to sensory events is most accurate IMMEDIATELY afterwards.

That's what a lot of the early reporting was -- what things sounded like (continuing explosions after the plane impacts), what they smelled like (cordite at the Pentagon), what they felt like (the vibration of an explosions from below, not above.)

Meigs was on CBC video

and had "little Eichmann" written on his forehead, no joke!


"Among the 'spider-man' skeptics are those who claim that no human can shoot web and stick to walls... They conveniently ignore the fact that he was bitten by a radioactive spider."

Daily Bugle editorial debunking the claims of spider-man deniers

Agent Meigs

Does anyone know if this is the perp responsible for the slander that got Proferssor Jones in hot water with BYU?

Alex Jones on WNYC - Public Radio International

I just heard Alex Jones on WNYC, a Public Radio International program called "To the Point". They played a short clip of Alex saying that 9/11 was an inside job. They reported that there are hundreds of protesters with him. Congratulations all you protesters!

great video, comparing Alex

great video, comparing Alex Jones to G.W.Bush's fake ceremony
says Alex Jones, "conspiracy theorist" - very well said

Alex needs to calm down

just a little bit...alex looks so crazy when he yells "9/11 was an inside job...etc etc etc" i love alex because i RESEARCH most of the things he say..but the avg person 1.) doesnt know who he is 2.) does not research so they will believe he is a crazy kook :0(

hit piece attacking Bowman

Live from GZ on the Alex Jones show

This is totally fucking thrilling... damn, I wish I was there.

But... I got MY bullhorn and I'm about to leave the house.



national tv broadcast

I got hold of this website in the loose ends documentary which was played on the largest national television of Pakistan ( It is truly amazing and reveals alot of issues with logical facts and figures. Brainwashing to the extreme!

Where are Archives in the new layout?....

I'm trying to find an August 2006 news article....the piece Michael Ruppert wrote regarding his departure from the United States.

under the news tab there is

under the news tab there is 'by day' and 'by month'..

Thank you...

Thanks, dz.

np, ill prolly remove the

np, ill prolly remove the 'quotes' and replace it with 'archives'.. it isn't very intuitive..

No dude the quotes are

No dude the quotes are wicked I think.

nah, i mean the quotes tab

nah, i mean the quotes tab at the top.. the random quotes will stay, with a link at the bottom for more quotes.. then the quotes tab at the top will turn into archives..

Cool I get it, what's the

Cool I get it, what's the difference between archives and search though?



Hi, I'm very alarmed on my campus that there is not one person doing anything 9/11 related to the point where even though I have no current activism going on. I'm going to go out and flyer during a memorial service our university is having later this evening. If this 9/11 passes and no one does anything on my campus it would be a shame. Therefore I must do something.
I've seen some good .jpg fiers posted on here before and I don't have the time to go digging them up.
If anyone has something that would be good for targeting a college audience that would be great. I just want to go out and hand out 20-40 flies and at least talk to somone. Something has to be done on my campus. Please help me by posting some links to some good fliers I can use. I need them by 5pm to have time to go make copies and so forth.

If you want to get peoples' attention...

Say they're auditioning for American Idol outside the campus. When everyone comes running out, hold up a banner saying "9/11=Inside Job".

This is the problem. I'm so pissed off that 100,000,000 Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job, and yet, only a tiny fraction of those have the drive and care enough to do anything about it. Isn't it about time you put down your Playstations and pull your fat, lazy asses off the couch!?

Do you not understand where the hell your country is heading? And do you not care that America is going to drag the whole Western world, not to mention the middle East, down the toilet with it?

Damn I'm mad today! Sorry again for the rant.

On another note, good work Researcher488, you are a patriot and should be proud.

report from ground

report from ground zero:

not sounding good.

A prominent activist's T-shirt reads, "Planehuggers did 9/11." By that he means, he says, "The people who think real planes hit the towers."

further proof that a bulk of

further proof that a bulk of the "no-planers" are not just useful dupes, but a sophisticated disinfo operation.

it seems like everyone's

it seems like everyone's getting along together swimmingly at the pentagon---

maybe everyone will see how to make this a good memory


Deborah S. Simon received special thanks in the video's credits for
providing footage and other help in producing Loose Change. Simon told AFP that
she even handed out copies of the video in front of the White House.. Who is
Deborah Simon, and why is she helping produce and promote Loose Change?

Deborah Simon (nee Cox) is married into the billionaire Simon family of
Indianapolis. The family owns the Simon Property Group, Inc., which boasts as
being the largest U.S. real estate company. The Simon family owns, develops, and
manages more than 280 shopping malls in the United States and 50 similar
properties in Europe and Japan.

The Simon family, strong supporters of Zionist causes, the Clintons, and the
Democratic Party, also own the Indiana Pacers basketball team. The campus of the
Jewish Federation of Greater Indianapolis is named after Max and Mae Simon, the
parents of Melvin, Fred, and Herb.

Melvin Simon, the Brooklyn-born founder of the company, also owned a
Hollywood production company and produced more than 20 films. Simon is
remembered for such films as Porky's, Love at First Bite, and Zorro, the Gay

Early morning ground zero blog.

From Jenna Orkin at From The Wilderness.

GROUND ZERO September 11, 2006 8:35 A.M.

Jenna Orkin

Any radiohead fans out

Any radiohead fans out there? Check out this video which looks at radioheads insight into 9/11 on their album Kid A.

suspicious Blair comment

Britain's Blair, hours after the planes hit the WTC, with WTC7 still standing, made this comment, according to CNN live coverage teleprompt:
"Mass terrorism a new evil in the world"

- how come, when noone had yet claimed responsibility and terrorists were still a rumour?

LOL, I think those ads are working

21,659 hits so far and counting!!

Terrorism: "The Power Of Nightmares"

Article: Where was Osama bin Laden on 9/11

New Delhi: It is not clear where al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden had parked himself to watch the World Trade Centre crashing on 9/11, but just a day before he was in a Pakistani military hospital in Rawalpindi, it has emerged

the DAY BEFORE 9/11? is this

the DAY BEFORE 9/11? is this true? and Osama BL was supposed to direct the biggest ever terrorist attack the next day?
- Govt. believers, please explain

Dz, where's the "Advertise

Dz, where's the "Advertise here" link if people want to buy a blogad on the blogger dude? I found the google ads one but the blogad I don't see. Cus I was thinking sometime instead of just donating for the next ad, I could buy a blogad on the blogger for a great book like Barry Zwicker’s "Tower's of Deception" for example. As the dough still goes to you, and it promotes something else worthwhile simultaneously etc.

hrm.. thats odd.. im

hrm.. thats odd.. im guessing the 'advertise here' link is hidden since we are full until 9/20..

blogads keeps about 35% of the ad money, but you can go to if you want to purchase one.. just turn on the filter and put '9/11' as the keyword, this site is the only one ;)

CNN's streaming "9-11-01 As It Happened" WAS Just Censored!

I've been watching some of the CNN online streaming video "9-11-01 As It Happened". It's 1pm PST, 4pm EST.

A few minutes ago, while one of the CNN anchors was talking about something, the video -- that was advertised as "The entire broadcast as originally aired, from a few minutes before news of the North tower impact was first shown on CNN, to midnight on 9/11" -- was immediately and unexpectedly CENSORED WITH THIS IMAGE FOR APPROXIMATELY 3 FULL MINUTES!


While that image was on the screen, there was audio of musical instrumentation dubbed over it. So, it was NOT the image simply placed over the video of CNN's streaming broadcast, with CNN's streaming broadcast audio still audible.

When the CNN's streaming broadcast resumed,  it was during the middle of a replay of the North tower collapse.



So, from during the anchor talking, to during the middle of a reply of the North tower collapse, there was 3 minutes censored. No video of it broadcast. No audio of it broadcast.


They just aired building 7

I just watched the CNN live feed and yes, they did indeed show building 7 collapse.

It's still airing right now.

I just watched that also.

I just watched that also.

CNN explains the lapses in video

They're cutting away again, saying that because of such a chaotic day, there are pieces of video missing.

HIGHLY suspect...

I would think CNN would have pulled out all the stops to ensure continuous coverage that day...

I wonder if anyone in the truth movement was videotaping CNN that day and could tell us what would have been there?

I just watched that

I just watched that also.

What an absolutely bullshit excuse that womans voice said.

I agree, very suspect.

Especially since that was just a few minutes after the collapse of WTC 7, then when the video resumed, it was in the middle of the female anchor in Washington talking.

Just like the pics that I posted above of the earlier censorship. CNN is censoring video, then resuming the broadcast during the middle of other video.

It is so suspicious.

I'm glad that you're watching and saw that also, BennyBob.

I was watching something different in another window while the collapse of WTC 7 was broadcast "live" on CNN during the streaming broadcast. The CNN broadcast was on mute. As soon as I noticed WTC 7 had collapsed, I paused the video in the other window, un-muted CNN and watched the replay stuff of WTC 7's collapse a few minutes later.

Did they show the Aaron guy saying that WTC 7 looked like a controlled demolition? Because he did say that on 9/11 while watching the collapse of WTC 7 or a few minutes later.

Maybe that's what CNN edited out.

So, since you were watching with volume the whole time, did CNN show the Aaron guy say that WTC 7's collapse looked like a controlled demolition immediately after the collapse of WTC 7? However he worded it? or was that not shown?

im wondering if they are

im wondering if they are having bandwidth issues? dunno..

i do know that i have recorded all 9+ hours so far, so all youll really have to do is see if it starts back where it stopped..

No. It isn't doing

No. It isn't doing that.

It's cutting out during the middle of a part of video, showing the image with the music dubbed over for approximately a couple minutes to a few minutes, the two times that I saw it happen, then cutting back in during the middle of completely different video.

So it isn't bandwidth issues. It's blatantly purposeful censorship.

It is very suspicious.

Strange? I'd say.

Can we all bombard CNN with emails asking them to provide the missing footage? Afterall, they did say that they were offering the "complete" footage did they not?

If they are censoring, and I suspect they are, that's BS! If we can confirm, then we can make a huge story out of this.

you all dont have to worry

you all dont have to worry anymore about spreading the word about the 911 hoax----

sean hannity was having some kind of breakdown on his radio talk show---

he told everyone---

very strange---he was telling millions of people about us ---repeatedly
in a manner that made him look waay evil

i'd be interested to hear that hannity

If you know where to look for that clip you're talking about, I'd like to see it

WTC7 collapse was just played on CNN

Great to see this on T.V.

They even highlighted the building in the video during the collapse.

I hope some people go "Hmmmm... that looks odd. How did the building fall strait down so fast?"

Did you just watch that

Did you just watch that Former Secretary of State, Lawrence Eagleburger segment?


It wasn't even 6pm on 9/11, and he was already saying "attack Osama, Taliban, Afghanistan"!


sean hannity has been

sean hannity has been yelling in fear about us on his radio for like two hours

he's doing all the work for us!!


Any audio available of it?

Crook & Liars cuts Press for Truth post

The stooges over at Crooks and Liars have cut the entire post about "9/11 Press for Truth". I guess they realized how hypocritical it made them look. May they rot in hell.

Crooks & Liars cuts "Press for Truth"

The stooges over at Crooks and Liars have cut the entire post about "9/11 Press for Truth". I guess they realized how hypocritical it made them look. May they rot in hell.

History Channel show last night...

Here's a new one for you guys. Did anyone happen to watch the show about some volcanic eruption on the History Channel last night? My wife was watching it and they tried to compare the WTC collapse with a type of volcanic eruption called a "column collapse". It was quite humorous how one of the "experts" on the show said when he saw the collapse of the towers he immediately knew what caused the collapse. They did not go into detail in explaining how the tower collapse was like a volcanic eruption, which was odd. Basically, a column collapse is when a volcano starts to collapse due to the intense pressure produced by hot gasses erupting from the earth. As the mountain collapses the hot gasses creates an even larger opening causing more hot gasses to escape. Kind of like Mt. Saint Helens. Anyone see this? Seems to me they are getting a little desperate to explain these collapses. I guess we can add a 4th theory to the official story now.

Judy Wood said the same thing last night

Judy Wood said the same thing last night, that the towers erupted, comparing it to a volcano. Except she was making the point that there must have been explosives involved.

also on Geraldo

also on Geraldo tonight:

Plus, were we lied to about the events of 9/11? At Large exposes the conspiracy theories that are sweeping our country.

gee, i wonder which side the jackass Geraldo is on?

Update from Paul Thompson.

It doesn't sound like it is going too well.

Loose Change Final Cut might be the last great chance.

Talking with Amy Goodman

I saw Amy Goodman on Sat. at Bobfest in Baraboo, Wisc. and grilled her on her not supporting us 9-11 truthers! I gave her a DVD of What's the Truth? to watch and asked her to PLEASE have on David Ray Griffin. She told me to watch her Monday show on debate on Democracy Now. There were more 9-11 truthers there besides me, giving away DVD's! Most people there said they agreed with me about 9-11 being an inside job! Others talked with Amy too, I think. We MUST do more then ever before to reach out to ALL people and quickly! Pisses me off NO mention yesterday of our 9-11 truthers on ANY MSM news but doesn't surprise me! We MUST, MUST take back our media and NOW! For far too long, corporate interests have controlled the media! We need to demand people BOYCOTT ALL MSM and NOW, until they start reporting the REAL news and NOT fluff and not ONLY about truth about 9-11 but other issues as well! BOYCOTT ALL MSM NEWS AND NOW! When their money dries up maybe they will change their reporting! It is worth a shot!

I was watching the CNN

I was watching the CNN coverage yesterday with the sound off, and have got to say that without the 'shock factor' of America being attacked, the whole deal looked blatantly staged. I got the impression that anyone viewing yesterday would be able to see it for what it was- lots of people saying bombs were going off and 'the top of the building exploded' etc. Plus the 'collapse' was so fake looking on th TV screen that I'd be surprised if it didnt wake a few people up....


Thank ypu very much from