The Elephant in the Room

There is an elephant in the room of the 9/11 Truth Movement. A few can honestly say they can’t see the elephant. A larger number can clearly see it, but have somehow convinced themselves it is really a piano. Yet the elephant remains. It is big. It is menacing. No one really knows what to do about it. But if we do not deal with the elephant, all our efforts for 9/11 truth may be for naught. Our movement will lose credibility, and will drift into the kind of obsolescence and irrelevance now associated with the theories of JFK’s assassination.

The elephant in the bedroom of the 9/11 Truth Movement is the obvious connection of the attacks with the state of Israel and its fanatical supporters within the United States government, military, and media. A sampling of some of the evidence:

• The Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz reported that the Israeli message service ODIGO broadcast a warning to Jewish employees of the Trade Center on the morning of the attacks.

• The company in charge of security at all the involved airports was an Israeli company called International Consultants for Targeted Security. Its president is Menachem Atzmon.

• The owner of the Trade Center buildings was Larry Silverstein, who is reported to have close relationships with leading Likud party Israelis such as Benjamin Netanyahu.

• Mohammed Atta and some of the other Arab patsies were closely followed closely (managed?) by numerous Mossad agents in the months before September 11, 2001.

We could go on with such examples, but the purpose of this essay is to suggest what we should do with this overwhelming evidence now that we have it. I watched with much frustration Jim Fetzer’s appearance on Hannity & Colmes last week, including the following exchange:

Alan Colmes: “I want our audience to understand exactly what you believe... you think it was a controlled demolition, it was not al-Qaeda, it was not people from abroad who want to kill us... it was Dick Cheney in a bunker directing an attack on the United States?”

Jim Fetzer: “Well, there are massive motives here..."

Fetzer went on to list as motives the missing trillions from the Pentagon, Silverstein’s insurance money, something about Halliburton... in other words, everything in the world except the most obvious motive of all: the usefulness of 9/11 in the furthering of the Neocon/Likud agenda of an Israeli empire in the Middle East based on their control of oil, and the transformation of America into a Bolshevist police state. Just think how much more compelling Fetzer’s arguments could have been if he would have named the perpetrator with the means, the motive, and a well-documented history of similar criminal activity in the past.

I believe this exchange represents a fork in the road for the future of the movement. In the future, we will be judged less on what we know than on what we have the courage to say. Do we have the courage to grapple with the elephant? This is what Alan Colmes and his viewers really want to know about us; for it is probably true in our society that the majority would rather align themselves with a criminal gang who bravely defend their lies, than with a group of timid truthseekers who are unwilling to follow their own evidence to its logical conclusion.

With this sobering reality in mind, I say to those unwilling to see the elephant that your work in the 9/11 Truth Movement is done. You may as well move on. Go back to playing Half-Life or reading spy novels or whatever you were doing before you started looking at 9/11. If you’re Jim Fetzer or David Ray Griffin, go back to your careers as left-wing America bashers– before you taint the rest of the movement with your absurd insinuations that “we did this to ourselves.”

For those, however, who decide to stay and deal with the elephant, I have heartening news. There is no need for any anti-semitism or for an ethnic confrontation of any kind. There is no need for pogroms or expulsions or a war with nuclear-armed Israel. It turns out that the elephant can be tamed if enough of us simply have the courage to call it what it is. A grass-roots movement to curb the power of Israel over our government could begin simply by demanding an end to the $3 billion subsidy U.S. taxpayers must send to Israel every year. On another level, we as a society must start treating the Jews as just another group, capable of both good and evil just like any other group.

In his 2005 book Galilee Flowers, the Israeli anti-Zionist writer Israel Shamir writes this about the current unbalanced relationship between America and the Jews:

“The fate of the Americans is not better. Proud to the point of arrogance, they assumed the White Man’s Destiny will lead them from conquest to conquest. They took over the great landmass of North America, forcibly opened the doors of Japan, and won two world wars, just to find themselves strangers in their own house. Now, instead of their own history, they study the Holocaust; instead of promoting their own interest, they fight mercenary wars for Israel. They work harder and harder to supply the goods to their new elite. They judge the world by one criterion, ‘whether it is good for Jews.’” [p. 333]

This is the state of spiritual sickness that existed in America on the eve of 9/11, and it persists today. As long as this sickness persists, the coverup will continue unabated and the truth behind 9/11 will remain hidden. When we can finally overcome this unbalanced relationship and view our history, and the history of the Jews, in a more realistic manner, the real truth of 9/11 will finally tumble out for all to see, and we will be able to move toward a future in which another 9/11 is not a possibility.

-Andy Kornkven

Anti-Zionists are the Elephant in the Room

The attempt by anti-Zionist to "piggy-back" onto the 9/11 movement is either an expression of irrational destruction, or a counter-movement which is trying to defeat the 9/11 movement by linking it to wacko theories. One only needs to listen to remarks from such individuals as Eric Hufschmid, whose book "Painful Questions" presents a rational argument for 9/11 conspiracy, when he discusses his beliefs regarding Holocaust denial, the fraudulent Apollo program, and so on (the audio of his remarks is available on-line from an interview with the makers of "Loose Change", in which he tries to convince them to inject his wacko theories into their work)

There is no question that the activities of other agencies needs to be investigated, whether it be the British Secret Service, the Mossad, the Paskistani ISI, and so on.

However, to try the elevate the role of any such entity as the "elephant in the room" really just reflects the fact that for some individuals, Zionism in the "elephant in their mind", and whatever they look at, they cannot resist blaming in on the "international Jewish conspriacy" (Whoops - I just relaized they now call it the "international Zionist conspiracy", since they hate Zionism and not Jews!)

Let us remember the elephant in the room is the Bushitler admiminstration, who as we all know, seized control of America with the help of the religous Reich.


you're right there, in the crosshairs - no amount of fingerpointing can get you out of it. "We are Israelis, we are not your problem, Palestinians are your problem..."

It's funny though that you would feign compassion with our cause by "warning" us about being fringified upon investigating the very clear indications of Mossad complicity. Oh, and of course none of PNAC's members are Zionists by any stretch of the imagination...

Also, upon closer inspection, there appear to be more questionable theories starting with Holo- than just Hologram-Planes.

Neo-Nazis Reveal Themselves by their Violent Threats

It never seems to fail - whenever you challenge Neo-nazis with facts, they respond with threats such as "you're right there, in the crosshairs"

If this forum were moderated, these remarks from bruce1337 would result in immediate and permanant expulsion.

As I mentioned, we need to investigate the complicity of any and all agencies involved, but notice the fixation upon the Mossad Mossad Mossad Mossad.

There is no question that American Jews (who may or may not be Zionists as well) have been tricked into supporting Bushiter. There is also no question that PNAC includes Christians as well, and that the basic key to Bushitler's power is the unrelenting support he recieves from the evangelical religous right.

Finally, as if this needs to be said, if we wish to demonize any religion, political entity, or culture throughout history, it is pretty obvious that the most horrendous and diabolical events were not due to Jews/Zionism/Israel, but to Christians who were certainly not behaving as Christians: I give you the Crusades, the Inquistion, and the Holocaust.

With regards from a free American, a Jew, and a Zionist.

Why are you a Zionist?

What does that mean to you, Shalom?

A Brief Response: Don't Want to Take Detour from 9/11

I mentioned above that I am reluctant to take this detour into all the argument pro and con regarding the re-establishment of the State of Israel.

I think my concerns were well founded, based upon this comment from bruce1337 above:

"Also, upon closer inspection, there appear to be more questionable theories starting with Holo- than just Hologram-Planes."

It doesn't take much to get these individuals, who really have a separate agenda from exposing Bushitler's 9/11, out into the open.

I do understand the need to be sympathetic to any of the victims of historical wrongs, whether they be American Indians, European Jews, Palestinians, and so on. If you read history and the news, you will realize that the populations of such victims, past and present, is enormous. (And, as I pointed out previously, the perpetrators of 99.9% of this misery has not been Jews, and for that matter, have not been Muslims).

As compassionate citizens of the world, we distort history by focusing on one pet set of victims, and one pet set of demons.

Very few nation-states are called upon to defend their creation and existence, since in almost very case (witness the existence of the US) history is not entirely fair to all.

I mentioned the re-establishment of the State of Israel to remind us that historical and religous scholars agree that there was a Jewish occupation of Israel, from which Jesus and all his disciples derived.

As we all know, in fact there has never been a Palestinian state in what is now Israel, and in the fact the word "Palestine" used by the British to designate a territory is based upon the peoples referred to as the Philistines in the Hebrew bible.

I mention this history to demonstrate that there is much more basis and justification for the State of Israel than many other nations (were Europeans living in the Americas 2,000 years ago?).

Being a Zionist (one does not have to be Jew to be one) is simple: it recognizes history, it recognizes that Isreal has as much right to exist as any other nation, it recognizes that it is time to stop the hypocrtical demonizing one group in order to not have to look at your own antecedents and your own history in the eye.

I'm sure there are arguments and couner-arguments to what I have said, but I feel this whole subject is really a diversion. Respond however you wish, but please understand if I don't continue this dialog. It IS important, but I don't want it to hijack this forum.

My agenda is simple: I want the truth

and so did he: Germar Rudolf

Imagine an expert in DNA analyses. He is asked to verify if a defendant is the father of a child. He complies and confirms the fatherhood of the defendant. With his testimony, however, the expert contradicts the statements of many witnesses who claim the opposite. Imagine the judge ruling not to admit the expert testimony because it makes spectators assume that the witnesses lied out of sinister motives. The judge even puts the expert witness on trial for inciting hatred against the witnesses and sentences him to 14 months in jail. You think it can’t happen? It does happen in Germany...

Truth does not need dictatorial laws shielding it from scrutiny, only lies do - that is pretty self-evident, isn't it?

Considering the enormous "moral capital" that's being squeezed out of this supposed fact, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see what's going on.

PS: Sorry, fellow truthers. I really don't want to taint 9/11 Truth by saying what I said here. I can't help but speak up in light of the situation.

Should We Tie the 9/11 Movement to Holocaust Denial ?

Regardless of how people feel about Jews/Israel/Zionists, do we want to tie the 9/11 TRUTH movement to bruce1337's hero ? Just follow the link he has obligingly provided, and decide:

(From Herr Germar Rudolf, regarding the claims of his movement)

They deny that there was a plan to murder all Jews
They deny that Jews were murdered systematically
They deny the existence of gas chambers for mass murder
They deny that six million Jews died in the Holocaust

You already associated both...

so isn't that a hollow threat (Holo-threat^^)? Do you believe the truth requires laws shielding it from scrutiny or not? I'm not saying the holocaust did or did not happen, I'm saying draconian thought-crime laws are dictatorial and suspicious.

And I stand by that assertion.

It's akin to the US Government saying: "It's now illegal to doubt that 9/11 went down just as you have been told. If you dare to question any aspect of it, we'll send your ass to jail!"

(Care to source all that you're accusing Mr. Rudolf of?)

Are you surprised at the smell of the shit you shovel ?

The stench only seems to appear when you're around

might be your after shave...

Keep on playing the Eternal-Victim-Card

until it is so stained as to become unusable. Time takes its toll.

There is no fixation on Mossad, au contraire, there is a distinct avoidance of it, because everything remotely associable with Judaism will be covered by that greasy card you like to play.

Who here wants to "demonize" anyone or anything? It is you that, seemingly for reasons of ideology, demonizes scrutiny of Israeli institutions as antisemitic, and thus by association, neonazi-esque. Give it up.

thanks for speaking out Bruce

You just happen to be one of the few who know all of these things who isn't afraid to speak out, to risk having people like "Shalom" try to make others think there's "something" wrong with you. Real truthers know that Israel is up to its eyeballs in 9/11 guilt. And not just 9/11 but the ubiquitous spying operations that every time they leak into the mainstream media are denied, then acknowledged, then claimed will never happen again.

Who is responsible for linking 9/11 with questioning the holocaust, Eric Hufschmid or all the people who thought they would shut down the truth movement by claiming that all 9/11 truthers were holocaust deniers? For that matter Hufschmid doesn't deny the holocaust, he rejects the falsification of history as everyone should, especially those about whom it is written. If it becomes mainstream to question what we are taught about the holocaust it will be a result of two things--the incessant linking of "holocaust denial" to 9/11 truth by Zionists, and the fact that people will have learned, through 9/11 truth, that some HUGE lies are possible when people are afraid to question things, when they let themselves be cowed by propaganda, no matter how well-meaning that propaganda purports to be.

Same goes for the Apollo missions--if the perps of 9/11 almost got away with it, how can we know that Apollo wasn't a similarly well-controlled lie? Where is the concrete, unfalsifiable proof? It's no longer enough to say "well that sounds absurd so it must not be true." We now know just how big and bold the lies have been--our efforts to investigate must be as big and as bold. There are NO sacred cows anymore. NONE. I and many others will no longer take anything on faith, because the 9/11 lie destroyed what faith we had in humanity as a whole. There aren't just people who would do something like what happened on 9/11, there are people who would not hesitate to frame an entire fifth of the world's population and use that suspicion to kill and rob them in numbers.

What goes around comes around. 9/11 changed everything--it doesn't matter who ultimately is found to be responsible. The rules don't change when the perception of guilt does. It has been clear from the beginning that the truth was being hidden. Why didn't people do more to demand the truth about what happened? Did people give Larry Silverstein a pass on being investigated for the massive destruction of his property because we were all too afraid to sound like those who were saying that "Jews were warned to stay away from the towers?" Who started that rumor, anyway? If we are to learn anything of value from 9/11 it should be not to jump to conclusions, or allow the media and corrupt politicians to do it for us.

It bears repetition--we will never forget 9/11. We will never forget, and we will not tolerate being lied to anymore.

The chips will fall where they may--from now on please refer all complaints to those responsible for the mass murder, coverup, and ensuing mass murder and illegal wars of conquest that were set into motion on September 11, 2001. May god forgive the perpetrators, becuase we will not.

Thanks for your support

I appreciate it, and concur wholeheartedly. I know there are more people thinking like us, subdued into submission by the notorious exemplary character-assassinations the antisemitism-card, paired with pretty massive conditioning, enables. But as it's happening with 9/11 Truth now, the wall of silence is cracking, and once the dam breaks, we'll probably find a lot of nasty stuff in the mud...

Going out on the next limb here, but I personally believe that a successful Apollo scam nurtured the reckless audacity required to pull off 3 controlled demolitions with the world watching and expect everyone to be fooled by the propaganda machine afterwards...

Arrogance comes before one's downfall.

I also think Apollo was faked

And the main reason is, it happened almost forty years ago and has never been repeated since. Everything else becomes easier after forty years, and our technology is infinitely superior. Why hasn't anyone repeated this feat? And why do the astronauts seem so uncomfortable at their press conference?

As far as the holocaust, I suspect it has been grossly exaggerated. Did Nazis round up Jews? Yes. Were they used as prison labor? Yes. Were lampshades made out of them? No. Were there huge ovens? Show me the evidence and I'll tell you what I think. Was the Auschwitz "gas chamber" what it is claimed to have been? See this video, where an atheist American Jew (David Cole) checks it out for himself:

Am I a little disturbed that there seem to be lots of lies that we're told about things growing up? Yes. Am I surprised? Not anymore. Do I hate anyone as a result of any of this? Just liars. Are Jews to blame for the actions of Zionists and/or the state of Israel? No. Could Jews as a general rule be a little more critical in their thinking on these issues? Yes. Would that help defuse the manufactured anti-semitism that Zionists have thrived on since the beginning of their insane pseudo-religious project. And how.

War is over if you want it, AND if you have the guts to admit when you've been wrong. And when you can get everyone else to do the same.

That press conference

was what finally convinced me. No amount of scientific elaboration can trump this footage. Also, have you seen that one small speech by Armstrong, where in the White House he spoke about the many layers of truth and how peeling them could expose a great many secrets? And all that while he was close to tears. Poor guy :o(

I entirely agree on your penultimate paragraph. Exactly my opinion!

If you think of it, "Antisemitism" serves Zionism so damn well I wouldn't be surprised if they staged some every now and then. It terrifies and thereby unites the jewish people in support of rather radical policies, blurring the line between zionism and judaism, and thereby precipitates critique that can in turn be painted as antisemitism.

Anon, do you feel an affinity for Rumsfeld's

rhetorical style by any chance?

There are good reasons not to BOTHER with a return to the Moon. Why use a ton of fuel to escape one gravity well just to go back down another? The interesting and useful stuff is going to happen in orbit.

But that press conference was extremely weird, and I've always wondered why Armstrong became so averse to any publicity afterwards.

Ultimately, we will have to...

...tie in 9/11 truth with "Holocaust denial." That is because the Holocaust Lie is used as a psychological weapon against us to reduce us to such a cowed state that the perpetration and coverup of a crime such as 9/11 is possible.

Yes, you heard me right: The Holocaust LIE. For those of us who have done the research-- for example, reading Arthur Butz's "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: the Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry"-- know that the story of the Nazis exterminating six million Jews in gas chambers during WWII is every bit as concocted and provably false as is the story that 9/11 was carried out by 19 Arabs with boxcutters. The only difference is that the "Holocaust" lie was introduced and accepted by the masses before the invention of the internet.

I can understand that a lot of 9/11 truthers do not want "to go there," regarding revisionist history and the "Holocaust," but ultimately we will have no choice.

It looks like

"Shalom" is the cowed one, now.



Admit it - your buddy was the one who feels emasculated:

"That is because the Holocaust Lie is used as a psychological weapon against us to reduce us to such a cowed state that the perpetration and coverup of a crime such as 9/11 is possible.:"

Why don't you just admit you are Neo-Nazis, and then claim "censorship" when 99% of the country turns away in disgust ?

Rather than being in a "cowed state", those who are the victims of your Nazi soulmates (Hitler, Eichmann, Goering, Goebbels) have a different response: NEVER AGAIN !!

In case you have difficulty understanding English, this means that the next time the Nazis try to "finish the job", we will be waiting.

And we will know exactly when you are ready to make your move, because the MOSSAD MOSSAD MOSSAD MOSSAD will tip us off.

Yes. Never again!

Stop the state-sanctioned murder of Palestinians!!!

certainly explains

Why the two have been tethered together by those afraid of the truth...


Forget about the white elephant, what about the 800 pound guerilla in the corner?

Apparently there is an 800

Apparently there is an 800 pound Idiot in the room, and his name is Grolf Stinksgreen. (Grolf should have more respect for this thread which is rated 10 out of 10!)

May be some Zionist, certainly not a jewish conspiracy

That some jews, extreme zionist smay have taken part of the 9/11
conspiracy involving members of the US elite and perhaps Israel
elite does not make 9/11 a conspiracy by all jews and neither does
it make a conspiracy by all the american people.

This a conspiracy from inside the american defense apparatus which
is so closely tied to its client state Israel defense apparatus that they
tend to be two branches of the same military complex. Are some
zionists constantly manipulating the Pentagon: like Chomsky, I do not
think so. Do some Israely take part or influence the Pentagon's decisions
regarding ME: it may be so. But other powers also influence those
decisions, like Big Oil and corporate capitalists inside the military
and industrial complex.

how many different elephants

how many different elephants in the room are there now?


Shalom makes a good point. If this were "a moderated room" Holocaust denial and pointing out Zionist activities might just be expelled. The gatekeepers do their best to keep any discussion of Zionist thought, nevermind, complicity, behind the smoked mirrors. We are all being lied to. An American Jew is a Jew and an American, but a Zionist is another thing all together, and American Jews would be wise to remember that they are Americans before they are Israelis.

Sad Truth

The sad truth in all of this zionism stuff is quite simply this, and Shalom even enlightens us a bit.

There are Jews, and I know them, they are friends and customers, that don't even consider themselves Jews outwardly. Yes, yes, you know by their name and their appearance that they are of Jewish extraction, but philosophically they are very secularized Jews, agnostics or even consider themselves atheist. Yet, when pressed they will espouse Zionism. All peoples the world over have experienced some sort of Holocaust event, Scots, Irish, certainly the Welsh, Gypsies, etc. EVERYBODY. Yet, Jews even those who avoid being Jewish in public have a shared agenda, and it is a Zionist agenda. Who are these people to espouse the Holocaust for the Palestinian people? When the saying, Never again" was invented, it referred to a holocaust of any kind ever happening to anyone here on a civilised planet Earth, and yet when Jews say it now, it really means that they will take what they want and bully who they want and that they will be standing on top of the heap. Your Jewish neighbor is part of a Fifth Column whether they know it or not.

Why did the Jews not choose Uganda or Madagascar as the new Jewish home back in the 30's when these were offered by the British and Germans, respectively? Why did they HAVE to go back to the Middle East? Did they want to live in peace and security or did they want perpetual war and strife? Ask yourself these questions and remember that everybody involved knew that there were indigenous people, the Palestinians, that already lived there that would have to be forcefully removed, and that all parties knew that there would be never-ending strife as a result.

Now, Israel is armed to the teeth with the best weaponry, courtesy of the American tax payer, and has in it possession hundreds of nuclear weapons and delivery systems capable of hitting Europe, possibly India, China, Japan. They also have enough sympathizers thanks to the Fifth Column that resides in this country to sneak in nuclear weapons to strike us if they so desired. Who do you suppose Israel needs to use nuclear weapons on? Do you really believe that Israel would need such weapons against the Arabs? The Arabs have never been able to co-ordinate a successful conventional war against Israel. No, Israel's nuclear arsenal is their trump card in dealing with the industrialized West. The UN and Europe talk a good game, but they dare not lift a finger agaisnt Israel, and the UN is packed by Zionists anyhow. The US elites are hand in hand with the Zionist power structure, but if there were ever a rift we would still be powerless. As long as oil is the engine of big business we can never afford to displease Israel, or they might very well hit the Arab oil fields, effectively turning the US and all other industrialized nations into Third World countries. They could also easily smuggle nuclear weapons into this country and set them off making it look like radical Muslims.

Whether any of you realize it or not, we are already at war with Israel. They attacked without mercy the USS Liberty in 1967, knowing full well that it was an American ship. They just murdered Rachel Corrie.

WAKE UP AMERICANS!!! We are all equals here, no one gets to be equaler than the rest.

Look up George Galloway's interview on Sky News during the Lebanese incursion. Get educated. The US media lies to you every day. Jewish human rights organizations scream at the top of their lungs about Darfur so we all look that way instead of at the continuing slaughter and imprisonment of the Palestinians. By the way, under the UN Charter it is the RIGHT of any people who live under occupation to fight said occupation. It is technically the Palestinians right to fight with whatever means necessary to drive out their oppressors, it is Israel that occupies their territory that is acting illegally. Do not be swayed that it is terrorism, terrorism is the weapon of the weak. The Free French did likewise to the Germans, as did all "freedom fighters" under German occupation. Odd that it is suddenly frowned upon when it is the Palestinians against the Israelis.