A Critical Review Of WTC "No Plane" Theories

By Eric Salter
www.journalof911studies.com

Click Here

Conclusion
There are many solid pieces of visual evidence–video recordings and photos–that show 767's impacting the World Trade Center towers. If only one of these images is authentic, the entire no-plane hypothesis is invalidated. There are absolutely no images of anything else hitting the towers despite the attention the burning WTC1 tower was receiving from a city of millions. The attempts by the no-planers to create credibility for their hypothesis by citing purported anomalies in the visual record have been characterized by a high degree of technical incompetence and illogical thinking. Because an authentic visual anomaly would only prove that that particular image was faked, and would not prove that something besides 767s hit the towers, it is clear that there is no supporting physical evidence whatsoever for the no-plane hypothesis.

Show "Planes? maybe." by craniac (not verified)

"Absolutely Disproven"

I talked to an 8 year old who watches Looney Tunes all of the time, and he told me that the "No Brainers" are full of it.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Look, Jon, I may agree with

Look, Jon,

I may agree with the PDF's main points (the one you linked to above) once I read and studied it.

However, please do not try to invoke the testimony of an unknown-to-me 8-year old (even if he may be a prooven genius), who watches an unknown-to-me title all the time and tells you something about a $make-up-a-ridiculous-name-for-someone-you-and-I-oppose. I'm even embarrassed to see "arguments" like this by someone whose other points I very often do agree with.

First, you won't convince me (and other readers) with that type of argument (or polemic). Why do you use the same "weapons" as your opponents, if you know they are uneffective?

Second, take into account all those readers (I guess there are more than just myself), who do not easily follow your ominous "insider"-inklings.

Please make serious arguments, with no or as little polemic as possible. It will help you convince me of anything you want to convince me of.

The 8 year old...

Is a complete fabrication. Much like the idea that no planes struck the towers on 9/11. In other words, I'm mocking them. Much like they have mocked us with their ridiculous efforts.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

And you honestly think, ....

...."mocking them" does work? I don't.

(It "works" in ridiculing yourself. Even in my eyes you're ridiculing yourself if you think this works.)

You are entitled...

To your opinion.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Incidentally...

You tell me... what does work? We have debunked their junk science. Time, and time, and time again. We have asked for cooperation on this site from its' users, and asked that people are considerate of others.

They have refused, and instead chose to collaborate efforts against this site through email. Under the leadership of Nico Haupt.

So you tell me, what does work?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

And you don't see...

Anyone coming to refute what I'm saying. Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't that piss you off? These individuals are purposefully trying to destroy this site.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

What about censorship for everyone?

Some individuals may be purposefully trying to destroy this site. They are far away from succeeding...

...but self-imposed censorship for everyone will (unpurposefully?) self-destroy this site.

(For my proposal how to avoid this, see these comments of mine:

http://911blogger.com/node/4131#comment-84537
http://911blogger.com/node/4131#comment-84639

I'm seriously concerned about censorship. How are we different from G.W.'s and the elite's methods if we go down this road? The only difference is, that we are less powerful, and can cause less damage. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I stand by the principle that "Freedom always is the Freedom of those who think differently".)

Jon Gold asked: "You tell me... what does work?"

Jon Gold asked: "You tell me... what does work?"

Jon,

for my proposal how to avoid this, see these comments of mine:

http://911blogger.com/node/4131#comment-84537
http://911blogger.com/node/4131#comment-84639

I'm seriously concerned about censorship. How are we different from G.W.'s and the elite's methods if we go down this road? The only difference is, that we are less powerful, and can cause less damage. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I stand by the principle that "Freedom always is the Freedom of those who think differently".

I do not think that any single human is beyond error. Bo-one owns the absolute truth. I do not want individuals to be the master censors.

I want the community to rate contributions, and give those with less rating less prominence. That avoids removal of individual freedoms and liberties from certain people. It still leaves a fair chance for unpopular views to gain more prominence over time (if they are argued well, and backed with convincing evidence).

It does not weigh down the shoulders of individuals with the responsibility of being "just" in their execution of censoring.

Of course, this proposal also is not a guaranteed way to find the truth. But it is a way to avoid going down the road of an internal dicatorship....

The way I read this

was as an attempt to inject some humor into an area which is usually grim and bitter. I think even a newcomer would be able to read it this way.

BTW, the PDF makes a very convincing case for the idea that NPT/TF is a dead end, a waste of time, and probably disinfo just to top it off.

See...

I knew I liked you for a reason.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "you must still be 8 for" by CB_Brooklyn

You have been outted.

You, and Nico's little band of collaborators against this site have been outted. You are scum beyond comprehension. I can't even stomach looking at your name. It makes me nauseas. To think that individuals like you exist in this world almost makes me want to stop fighting for it.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "more and more scientists are" by CB_Brooklyn

Thanks...

For not denying ANY of my statements in this thread. You are scum. To think that you have tried to destroy THIS site... THIS &%#^$*% SITE?!?!?!?

It boggles my mind. Take your "scientists", and shove them up your @ss.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Ya know...

It's one thing to be an idiot and not know any better, but to maliciously, and purposefully try to destroy this site that SO MANY people have worked SO HARD for... there are no words. Scum isn't a strong enough word.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Eric Salter's...

Commentary
When I told friends who were open to 9/11 skepticism that I was working on some articles critical of these no-plane theories, they looked at me askance, as if to say "why are you even wasting your time on that?" Overall their reaction was appropriate. Frankly, I've been embarrassed to admit to ordinary folks that I've been working on these articles and have begrudged every moment of time I spend on it. These theories never were and never will be broadly accepted among the 9/11 skeptic community, let alone the broader public, even with the attention of high profile figures like Morgan Reynolds or Jimmy Walter. But that doesn't mean that they are not a threat, especially to a particular minority segment of the 9/11 skeptics community.

The treatment of the pod issue by Popular Mechanics should be a warning.

The pod theory was never supported by any more than a small minority of 9/11 researchers. But as a result of Von Kleist's error-ridden "In Plane Site" DVD and forwarding of pod articles by naive individuals who thought they were encouraging dialogue, enough noise was built up around the issue to give PM the justification to portray the "pod" as a widely-held view. And their treatment of it was a master stroke. They gave it marquee position at the beginning of the article: a first impression tainting all the other stronger evidence to follow. And then their debunking was weak, simply a one-liner from an expert claiming it was an illusion, allowing the pod advocates to declare victory and continue to push their theory. Overall, a lose-lose scenario for 9/11 truth.

One has to wonder, with the no-plane theories gaining the support of big shots Morgan Reynolds and Jimmy Walter, if a repeat of the pod debacle is in the cards. If so, there are many reasons why it has progressed to this point. The phrase "Fools Rush In" has never been so appropriate than in describing the rougher edges of the 9/11 truth movement, in which we've seen all sorts of instant experts talking about technical subjects far removed from their expertise. Some researchers who are quite good at tracking down information have proven themselves completely incompetent at making a sound technical analysis. It's a completely different skill set.

The no-plane ideas are a manifestation of an epidemic of "smoking gun fever," the rush to see promising evidence in any and every perceived anomaly. One could chalk this up to technical incompetence, reckless enthusiasm, or a desperate desire for ammunition to use against a terrifying conspiracy, but the problem is deeper. It is often driven by a partisan imperative to pursue a more radical case. And by radical I don't mean "leftist" but simply more divergent from the official story. If you look at the rhetoric of a no-plane supporter, such as Nico Haupt, you see an attempt to make accepting no-plane claims synonymous with pursuing the "real truth." Likewise, the "Gatekeepers" research of Bob Feldman (for which I helped build the flowchart graphic) has been hijacked and transformed from a complex analysis of elite control of lefty media into a simplistic ideological litmus test: "If you don't support my spurious physical evidence claims you're a 'gatekeeper.'"

The discussion of physical evidence has been politicized, subject to the old and tiresome radical moderate dialectic. I worry that the 9/11 truth movement is devolving towards a predictable, manufactured divide: moderates who treat physical evidence responsibly but who advocate limited-hangout analyses of both 9/11 and world politics, and radicals who pursue a deeper and more accurate overall analysis but who lunge after spurious and sensational physical evidence claims in the name of exposing a deeper truth. For example, you can find Haupt questioning the "peak oil" theory one minute and posting the windshield UFO garbage the next. That behavior discredits those who are pursuing more radical analyses.

Discussion of physical evidence should be egoless and non-ideological, characterized by stark realism. First the evidence has to be demonstrated simply to be reliable. Then it must be decided whether there is enough evidence to make a convincing case. The no-plane theories don't even make it past the first test.

Every day prosecutors drop charges in criminal cases because they don't have enough evidence to go to trial, and they may do this even though they know the suspect is guilty as sin. Why? You pick your battles carefully, pick those you can win. In the end, the physical evidence may only support a limited hangout. If that is the case the answer is not to give up and go home but to augment the physical evidence with research about the past history of elite manipulation. Despite some forays into questionable evidence,

Webster Tarpley has done exactly this in his book "9/11 Synthetic Terror."

On the other hand, massaging the evidence to fit a more radical analysis is exactly what the perps of 9/11 want: It leads to straw man arguments that the debunkers can knock down.

It should go without saying that an investigation of a conspiracy like 9/11 will always be a two-front war against disinformation: On one side are the gatekeepers pursuing a limited hangout. On the other side are crackpots and disinfo agents pushing bogus, discrediting evidence. . Weeding out bogus claims is neither gatekeeping nor censorship but an absolutely critical activity. In defending no-planers and pod people, some who don't even support the theories have cited "freedom of speech" in defending those theories' place at the table, evidently feeling that if there is any tendency to reject any lines of inquiry, then there will not be an atmosphere conducive to uncovering the full truth. This attitude simply ignores one front of the two-front war we're involved with. The treatment of the "pod" issue by PM is a perfect example of how this "freedom of speech" argument can backfire. It's clear the advocates of certain theories have shown themselves to be completely egotistically and ideologically attached to those theories. They'll never change. So if this breaks through and embarrasses us like the pod issue did, the real responsibility will be with those who kept forwarding or tolerating the no-plane material in the interest of "dialogue" or "exploration" or "askin' questions" and who failed to use their powers of discernment to see through a baseless argument.

In between the two fronts of this information war there is a lot of grey area, with quite a bit of room for principled disagreement about both evidence and tactics. Of course, principled disagreement is exactly the opposite of the obnoxious behavior of the no-planers, some of which I've documented in my articles, and which has included aggressive bluffing, bald-faced denials of obvious mistakes and personal attacks upon critics of the theories. This behavior creates an acrimonious and divisive atmosphere in a movement that prevents productive work, and is usually the MO of deep cover agents. But I'm not suggesting noplane advocates are agents. In fact I believe that most are deluded "useful idiots," as the terminology goes. As such, their offerings are misinformation, not disinformation. But that doesn't mean that the spooks wouldn't flood lists and forums with vociferous multiple-pseudonym supporters of these theories, in a tactic similar to the astroturfing of mainstream politics. If I were in charge of the cover up I would let the authentic fools emerge and then use mind control to encourage egomaniacal, narcissistic, and aggressive tendencies. But while general comments on what theories constitute disinfo are reasonable, it's useless to let fly specific accusations of disinfo activity regarding individuals. There is never any evidence. Charges going back and forth is what the cover-up crew wants: Divide and conquer. And given the historical record of COINTELPRO, the ones making the accusations are most likely to actually be the agents.

Of course, the no-planers have been constantly accusing other activists of being agents, always without proof and based on the most tenuous of reasoning. Simply working at a university that received government funding is cause for suspicion in their eyes. Imagine what they would say if a 9-11 activist used to work for the Bush administration itself. They would go ape, slandering that activist incessantly, accusing them of posing as a defector to be able to encourage the most unproductive areas of 9-11 research. But wait, I forgot: Morgan Reynolds IS from the Bush administration. But, of course, for the noplaners he's completely above suspicion because he supports their arguments. Just goes to show the incredibly biased thinking going on in those quarters.

If this is a disinfo operation we can expect that more "defectors" from high places will come forward to support it. The ongoing strategy will not be to win over the entire 9/11 truth movement, but simply to establish the legitimacy of investigating it so that people like Morgan Reynolds or Jimmy Walter will have just enough political support to give the impression to the general public that this is a key issue to 9/11 research. Therefore, the action for 9/11 activists to take now is not just to oppose the no-plane garbage but to shun the figures who promote it. After all, the success of the Loose Change DVD showed us (despite its flaws) that you don't need to be famous or rich to have a profound influence. We don't need standard bearers who push discrediting ideas, no matter how fortuitous their support seems.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Opinion piece

This is not a scientific treatise.

It's an opinion piece.

What is your point?

Opinion Piece?

The 8 year old laughed when I told him you said that. Given the fact that every piece from Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood has many colorful adjectives that could also be construed as "opinion."

My point is, I denounce the "No Brainers" and everything they stand for. They do not speak for me. I do not wish to be associated with them. They have tarnished the efforts of so many individuals, including myself.

My point is, everything I posted here, can not even be challenged because every word of it is truth. I know this because no one has even tried.

My point is I don't want to be doing this one day longer than I have to.

The "No Brainers" are doing everything within their power to make this fight longer than it has to be.

That is unacceptable.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Hypnotism

Why don't you figure out why you can't look at the evidence and see what is right in front of you? And why it makes you so angry?

If you could figure that out, you'd be so much closer to your goal because you'd have the diagnosis for why it is no one can see the very obvious evidence that you yourself accept, and try to promote to others.

If you figure out how to get around this block in yourself, maybe you will have the solution for others as well. And we can really get where we need to go.

If you figure out the key - why you get so angry at just a discussion over evidence - then you can understand why others get angry at the evidence you yourself present. And maybe help them get over that?

Why don't you...

Stop defending these individuals who are purposefully trying to destroy this site?

Unless of course you are here to do your best to see that it is destroyed. Is that the case Peggy?

Are you part of Nico's band?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

that's your opinion

and you state it like its fact

that is why you are so obnoxious.

these no-planes blogs have consistently been voted down by the community. you consistent rate very LOW in the ratings.

please - with all die respect - take a hint.

Show "Jon un Alabanese .. please become humaine again" by u2r2h

"evidence"

is a word that has somehow lost its meaning, about since i started visiting this (otherwise great) site.

Much like the word...

"Conspiracy."
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

which is why..

..we conspire to get the evidence back

Taken as a whole, the PDF is not an opinion piece.

The author does express his personal opinion, but only at the end of a well-reasoned critique of No Planery.

It is obvious...

That there has been a concerted effort by the "No Brainers" to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com.

Under the "leadership" of Nico Haupt.

Shall we put that in perspective? Let's...

dz created this site because he believes in this cause. So much so that he has spent $1000's of his own money to ensure its' success.

He has taken donations, and used them to place some of the most important banners in history on other websites so that people can see that there is something wrong with the official story of 9/11.

He and his crew, have updated this site technically so that its' users have the "best experience" when visiting this site.

He and his crew, have provided some of the most important media ever released.

He and his crew, have written some of the most powerful pieces in this movement.

Important 9/11 activism has been birthed on this site countless times.

Now, under the "leadership" of Nico Haupt, certain individuals are attempting to destroy everything dz and his team have worked SO HARD for, not to mention everything each contributor of this site has worked for.

Nico Haupt... an individual with a history of causing disruption within this movement. An individual who starts email campaigns directed against certain individuals in this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles against certain organizations within this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles about certain events that take place within this movement. An individual who keeps tabs on what certain individuals within this movement are saying so that he can use their statements against them in the future. An individual who makes sure to act like a lunatic when the mainstream media decides to give this movement some attention. An individual who takes it upon himself to "investigate" certain individuals within this movement in the hopes of discrediting them.

Why anyone would want to follow the "leadership" of that type of individual is beyond me.

That being said, I wanted to thank dz, somebigguy, reprehensor, and GeorgeWashington for everything you've done, and any decision you make regarding these "No Brainers" will be perfectly acceptable to me.

You have my UNDYING support.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "So why then . . ." by Craniac (not verified)

"9/11 truthers gleefully point out..."

I do? You asked the wrong question, to the wrong person.

Incidentally, I just wrote the above.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Oh...

I think I made my point clear. You said this is directed against, "any one that dares to suggest something other than what you think", and I CLEARLY pointed out that this is directed against a, "concerted effort by the "No Brainers" to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com."

In other words, click here.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

...

"Great, so then ANY photo of the WTC towers without a squib taken that day disproves the enitre controlled demolition theory"

Do you seriously think this is a good analogy ??
Come on, think about it again, please.

Jon Gold speaks for this community

These blogs have consistently polled VERY LOW on the blogger rating system.

yet, you guys rudely insist that you are entitled to swamp this board with your nonsense.

I would say Jon has the higher ground here - and you sound like a petulent child.

Show "it is clear that there is no" by brianv

Seriously...

The 8 year old presented graphs, documentation, satellite imagery, a video from the cockpit of each of the planes that showed the collision with the towers, etc... it was really incredible.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

And then...

He reminded me what Willie Rodriguez said that family members have told him that they are offended by the "No Brainers."

Speaking of which, I'm #98 on the families' petition.

As it stands now, the signatures are at 4704.

What number is Nico Haupt? What number is Morgan Reynolds? What number is Judy Wood?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

#36...

On this one. Same question.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

For The Families...

Something I have NEVER forgotten.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Thank you for this very important blog

I think it is essential to blow the cover off this issue in as public and decisive a way as possible. Ultimately it ends up being yet one more arrow in our quiver if we can demonstrate - demonstrably - that this movement is being targeted.

The media has a lot they need to bury:

On August 4th, 2006, 9/11 family members Lorie Van Auken, Patty Casazza, Mindy Kleinberg, and Monica Gabrielle released a statement that questioned the "entire veracity" of the 9/11 Commission's report.

On September 5th, 2006, a documentary endorsed by the families that fought for the creation of the 9/11 Commission was released entitled, "9/11: Press For Truth."

On September 11th, 2006, at the National Press Club in Washington D.C., family members Donna Marsh O'Connor, Michelle Little, and Christina Kminek asked for, "a new investigation into the events of September 11th, and this time, a truly bipartisan, global, with families invested from the beginning, middle, and throughout the end."

On October 14th, 2006, Monica Gabrielle, Lorie Van Auken, Mindy Kleinberg, and Patty Casazza released a petition that calls for, "the immediate declassification and release of all transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice" as well as "the declassification and release of both the redacted 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (JICI) and the CIA Inspector General’s report, "CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks." In the span of three days, they managed to get 2041 signatures.

so - we will take this new challenge on. whether it is intentional or unintelntional - disinformation or misinformation - cointelpro or simply stupid people - we will use it to create the necessary contrast between truth and fiction.

Where...

Have I seen that before? ;)
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

I think every no-planer/tv faker here at 911blogger

has an obligation to read this article in full and attempt to rebut it, or STFU. "Argue the science, argue the evidence" is a common NPTF rejoinder to those of us who object to the prominence these "theories" have gained here and elsewhere. Well, Eric Salter does, he does it logically and well, and if the NPTFers can't produce a similarly logical, dispassionate counter-argument, then that whole avenue of "research" needs to be cast on the ash heap of blogger discourse forthwith.

of course you realize

that this is the entire objective of good cointelpro disinformation..... suck us all into debating them.

now, one of their crew - probably Thomas Mattingly the "intellectual" wil write a longe verbose 'treatment" on the article - designed to appear scholarly or SINCERELY objective - but - within that treatment there will be many conspicuous holes in his logic - some SO conspicuous that it will be obvious it is bait.

some will fall for the bait. they will attempt to deconstruct his logic. a fool's task as sudddenly we will find ourselves caught up in adding more attention to a subject that is designed to distract.

i do not beelieve in dignifying this group of "researchers" with debare ceause it is MY opinion that this is organized disruption.

I don't think they can debate it.

The reason I felt comfortable making that statement is because I honestly don't believe they can even come close to a reasonable rebuttal. I have no interest in debating them -- zero, zilch -- and I won't even post on an NPT thread at this point, even to disagree. I'm certainly not getting into it with Thomas J. Mattingly, who has persuaded me that his effect, if not his intention, is disinfo.

I guess I was just looking for a polite clause to attach to my "STFU."

Show "Salter's supposed to be dispassionate?" by Peggy Carter

...

"If the research is so weak, why is it so threatening?"

this is something i just dont get. seems to be a common phenomenon among you tvf people. "oh, our 'research' causes alot of disturbance, that means we really must be on to someting'."

how f**n s**id is that. sorry, but pretty much all your arguments either follow such a pattern or are some sort of attacks. in other words, not worth reading anymore.

Show "ad hominens are not" by CB_Brooklyn

...

and once again your 'how break Newton' argument.
as already said, you failed to convice it DID break that law. got it?
this thread really did no good to your 'movement'.
Good night.

Show "Salter's paper fails many standards." by CB_Brooklyn

Are you on...

Nico's mailing list? Are you one of the individuals he calls on to disrupt this site?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

erh, that seems to be the

erh, that seems to be the kind of logic that is all over your theories.
why should Steven Jones have to explain us how it can be violated? Its you who has to prove that it *does* get violated. i know you think you did already, but it hasnt been convincing. Its time to debunk that pdf now, you have some work to do !

[i]prove that something

[i]prove that something besides 767s hit the towers[/i]

LOL. The burden is on Mr. Salter to prove his *positive* thesis of a 767 crash, not to make wild, unsupported, proclamations and bait others to prove the negative. This is all highly illogical and anti-scientific. Is this truly indicatice of the direction taken by the "Journal of 9/11 Studies"? Who "peer-reviewed" this tripe?

Dude...

Listen to the 8 year old. You can't go wrong.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

?????

?????



(In other words: I don't get what you mean. Honestly.)

Ok...

To explain the joke to you... the "No Brainers" have used the phrase "Cartoon" to describe what hit the towers on 9/11.

They have often used a Warner Bros. creation called "Road Runner" to emphasize their ridiculous point. The "Road Runner" appears on a television show entitled, "Looney Tunes."

The reference to an 8 year old shows that someone with an 8 year old education of the world is intelligent enough to see through the "No Brainers" nonsense for what it is.

Nonsense. I thought invoking an 8 year old that watched the "Road Runner" on "Looney Tunes" to debunk the "No Brain" nonsense would be a funny irony.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "WTC CD vs. No-Planers" by Anonymous (not verified)

I don't think anyone has suggested that "motel" metal

was present. Hotel metal, probably not either. Inn metal, no way.

As for modelling the collapses, you need to check out mmmlink's work.

Why risk utilizing cartoon-ery when real drones work just fine

for slamming into buildings?

My Favorite Argument...

May I ask how you know that using real drones would be easier than using cartoons - have YOU ever tried it? And if you want to know just how easy it is to fake landing a 747 on a Southern California Freeway, just google "405 The Movie".

IOK

Shhhh...

It's ok. Your wretched theory has died. Move on.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

so, I am sure you are all

so, I am sure you are all waiting to see wait I will say.

But won't actually read it, most of you will just scan it for something that you can use to justify immediate dismissal.

There is only ONE TRUTH.

The EXACT WAY that 911 WAS DONE.
IMO it was done almost exactly as planned. Yes, including the loose ends.

Fun question:

Q: Why do you think the pentagon was attacked?
A: Because it was a military operation.

Why is NoPLane so offensive? You say it loud and clear.
Because it is not true it HURTS THE MOVEMENT.

So if it was true, it would not hurt the movement?

No !! you have answered that as well.
Even if is was true, it would hurt the movement.

I tell you a little story.

Once I was shocked to hear about WTC explosions and WTC demolition.. I was ignorant.

I looked into it, and found such a multitude of indicators that contradicted my previously held view... So I asked myself:

Why did I not turn off the talking heads (mute!) and just WATCHED the towers coming down... and then I would have seen it. Demolition, plain and simple. Not even the most unstable building goes down LIKE THAT (with huge squirts, upward-and-outward ..bla bla)

The plane buttering into the building.. same story. It is actually easy to see.. like the towers behaving IN THEIR TOTAL MASS so unbelievably, so does the UA175 impact into WTC2 look, IN IT'S TOTAL MASS, behave not believable. That aside...

So I asked myself

How was it possible that i once believed that the towers were brought down by weakening steel, fires, 767 aeroplanes??

bear with me. I am tired.

Did i HEAR VERBATIM some TV talking head say the towers were brought down by airplanes? Probably, but it was more implied than actually said out loud ..

If it WAS said out loud, it was embedded with STUN-PICTURES that switched off my brain.

I did not question it. I never did imagine, nor try to test the validity of other scenarios.

NO! I was fast asleep. ... until one day (visiting my then boyfriend in Germany) there was a TV station that staged a debate.


Head count:

1 moderator
4 Official version protagonists
vs
1 conspiracy theorist


here I found you the full story (download

(such interludes you will have to forgo in future. I compile info as I see fit, and if it is contained in a censored blog-entry of mine... your loss.

Back to the german programme.

Boy, was he shouted down. He was insulted. His intelligence was doubted, and he was accused of instilling dangerous thoughts... he was made to look like a child-porn promoter.

The noplaners on this BBS are treated EXACTLY the same way. Now 911blogger will censor blog-posting, presumably to protect the poor 911 truthers from the child-porn of this crazy and evil Cointelpro, shill NOPLANE shit, not worth discussing, (protect freedom!)

The german TV (WDR) showed nice computer-animation -- coloured wireframe -- fresh from the USA to show how the tower-structure was hit badly and the structural faliure ensued. Wow, I thought. thats a bit sudden. Why show the footage here? Why not in the main TV news?

(because it wouldn't wash there!)

Then, fairly late in the piece GERHARD WISNEWSKI spoke:

"And the towers were brought down with explosives"

And I threw my hands into the air and thought:
Now he didi it. He lost all credibility.
His painful facial expression gave me a hint that he knew that this would happen.

Apparently this was the last time he appeared on TV, he previously made TV productions, now there is no money for him.

The corruption of STATUS is total. As 911blogger gains STATUS, dz "and his team" are doing what INDYMEDIA stil hasn't done. They will stop the instant publishing, and I am certain that news flavoured with NOPLANE will not be published...

protect who?

Are you...

One of Nico's merry band of collaborators against this site?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

This isn't...

Just Eric Salter's "Critical Review" of "No Brainers." It is also mine.

Tell me... are you part of Nico's email list?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

own up or retract, Jon

dz, please ban JON for this insult.

(just kiddin)

No I am not in any way associated with Nico Haupt.

I do like him though. His bloglines
http://www.bloglines.com/blog/ewing2001/
are getting to be more informative than 911blogger...

No need to be a camp guard. Everyone has his viewpoint. Nobody should censor anyone.

Jon, tell us where Nico called upon anyone to DISRUPT 911blogger... or retract your statement NOW.

To be an honourable person is a value in itself.

I feel

Being an US-resident almost prevents one to be one.
You pay taxes for war and torture. You should emigrate for your sanity. Staying in the USA is a huge corruption of one's mind. Maybe you get 'interned' before you can. What THREAT LEVEL ARE YOU ON?

is it orange?

You know what...

The emails exist. I don't have them. However, it's my word against yours which is worth nothing.

Why don't you tell Nico to come say hi, and refute the charges in this thread. That is something I'd like to see.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Every single charge...

And then after he fails, I would like you to tell us why you defend scum like him.

Now, under the "leadership" of Nico Haupt, certain individuals are attempting to destroy everything dz and his team have worked SO HARD for, not to mention everything each contributor of this site has worked for.

Nico Haupt... an individual with a history of causing disruption within this movement. An individual who starts email campaigns directed against certain individuals in this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles against certain organizations within this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles about certain events that take place within this movement. An individual who keeps tabs on what certain individuals within this movement are saying so that he can use their statements against them in the future. An individual who makes sure to act like a lunatic when the mainstream media decides to give this movement some attention. An individual who takes it upon himself to "investigate" certain individuals within this movement in the hopes of discrediting them.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "Actually, No. Conspiracy theory?" by Peggy Carter

Nico...

Won't come here anymore? That's funny... he sure likes to vote.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Talk about audacity...

They have posted so many links on this site about TV Fakery that 911Blogger.com shows up before http://911tvfakery.blogspot.com/ in a google search for "TV Fakery."

And they don't even have 911Blogger.com listed in their links section.


__________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Low And Behold!!!

Neither does Morgan Reynolds.


___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

I can't believe...

dz has put up with you "No Brainers" for so long. I give him all of the credit in the world. He has patience I do not.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

That is some FUS.

The Google thing. Really, it is.

Not now Jon, I gotta get on with this ...

Apparently Jon Gold is reduced to nausea by the very mention of TV Fakery. Apparently it desecrates all of his ‘hard work’.

You discovered all about the War Games, did you Jon? You discovered that there were no Arabic names on the Passenger Manifests, did you Jon? You discovered that AA11 & AA77 had no entries in the BTS Database, did you Jon? You investigated Val McClatchey’s “End of Serenity’ photograph, did you Jon? You became a magnet for every possible 9/11 video, did you Jon? You worked out Controlled Demolitions, did you Jon?

To read his rants, one would be forgiven for thinking that the Holmgren-Grable-Haupt Axis (of Evil?) has world-wide tentacles, and creates enslavement worse that that of G.W Bush.

I think it might be an idea to explain something. Something that seems to have been missed.

I have never personally met any of the following people: Nico Haupt, Gerard Holmgren, Rosalee Grable or Jon Gold.

Nico lives in New York City. Rosalee lives in Chicago. Gerard lives in Australia, and I live in England.
(I have no idea, not do I care, where Jon Gold lives … I guess the States, somewhere … judging by his ego).

The point is how is it that I am ‘under the spell’ of these TV Fakery/No-planers?

What ‘hold’ do they have on me … such that they can ‘command’ me to write articles such as those I have written recently (in support)?

Why do I do it?

Is it because I see the whole thing as a game?

If it is a game, then (surely) it is a very risky one. Do I have to spell out the situation to anyone who is engaged in exposing 9/11 Truth? Really? Do I have to explain the NSA to anyone?

No … it’s not a game. Very much not a game.

So exactly what ‘hold’ do these people - I have never met, and probably never will - have over me?

Can they command the NSA, or the Police, or somesuch, to break my arms if I do not support them?

I really don’t think so, somehow.

So what is it then? Why do the rants of people like Jon Gold, and John Albanese et al actually make *me* want to throw up?

Could it be that I want to expose the TRUTH? Could it be that, I wonder?

Could the fact that the Homlgren-Grable-Haupt Axis has actually exposed the Truth, and that – as a seeker of the Truth myself – I have BOTHERED read all of their work, and can see it makes far more sense than Jon Gold (& Co.), spouting ill-informed garbage?

Like it or not, that’s the ‘hold’ these people have over me, funnily enough.

They have exposed the Truth, and I support the Truth … not white-foam-at-the-mouth-you-people-make-me-want-to-vomit ranting.

Do you let Gold & Co. make up your mind for you? For goodness sake, just READ the TV Fakery evidence. Make up YOUR OWN mind.

It won’t hurt you.

Will it?

You will almost certainly come to the conclusion that Gold & Co. have simply created a mountain of empty bluster (from which, at some point, they will somehow need to extricate themselves), instead of actually reading the evidence themselves … before ‘going off on one’.

The same goes for Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin, actually. Science? You MUST be joking! (Thermate CUTS, Prof. Jones ... but it does not reduce 47 massive steel columns & 110 floors-worth of concrete to fine powdery dust ... leaving paper sheets untouched. Neither does it cause burned-out vehicles in the surrounding area).

Scream on Jon & Co. Just more words you will eventually need to swallow. The ‘eye-witnesses saw’ the planes, because the Government told them there were planes. No other reason.

See, it's this kind of crap

that completely undermines your credibility:

"(Thermate CUTS, Prof. Jones ... but it does not reduce 47 massive steel columns & 110 floors-worth of concrete to fine powdery dust ... leaving paper sheets untouched. Neither does it cause burned-out vehicles in the surrounding area)."

Do you think he doesn't know this? I have never read anywhere that Steven Jones thinks thermate alone was responsible for the implosions. Can you link to where he does?

Being unable to make this kind of distinction (that's the generous interpretation) does not help your ability to make a persuasive argument. The anti-Jones character assassination (realistic interpretation) is why people call the No Planery folks shills.

Why do I do it?

You're an idiot?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Let me expand on that...

Are you an individual with a history of causing disruption within this movement. An individual who starts email campaigns directed against certain individuals in this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles against certain organizations within this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles about certain events that take place within this movement. An individual who keeps tabs on what certain individuals within this movement are saying so that he can use their statements against them in the future. An individual who makes sure to act like a lunatic when the mainstream media decides to give this movement some attention. An individual who takes it upon herself to "investigate" certain individuals within this movement in the hopes of discrediting them?

Obviously you condone these actions. As well as a concerted effort to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com.

You're worse than an idiot. You are scum, and these are the reasons why people like you make me nauseas.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "Steven Jones is a Junk Scientist." by CB_Brooklyn

This has...

Nothing to do with Jones scum. This has to do with Nico Haupt collaborating with about 10 individuals through an email list to disrupt this site. You are one of them. You are scum.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "sorry, but that won't hold" by CB_Brooklyn

Before...

I really flip out, I am going to say good nite. This thread has been EXTREMELY successful in outting Nico Haupt, TV Fakery, No Planes, and everyone who promotes it.

I'm going to call this a good day.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "at least you'll get one good" by CB_Brooklyn

flipped out

Could you flip out any more than talking to yourself all night? You've got the schizophrenic third-grader vote locked up with this round of politicking no diggity...

Show "One big mistake Jon.........." by CB_Brooklyn

Say what?

The entire time I knew you over on Raw Story's message board, you NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about no planes at the wtc.

For those who are wondering what CB's talking about:

He/she contacted me about a year ago on Raw Story's message board asking for help with a project he/she was working on, which involved emailing structural engineers some of the 9/11 oral histories from the New York Times website and other quotes from people at the WTC who described hearing and seeing explosions. I thought his/her heart was in the right place so I decide to help him/her out. I also mentioned to him/her that he/she should get a hold of dz and ask if he could get his/her project posted on up 911Blogger.

I had no reason to be suspicious of this person, because from all indications he/she seemed all right to me at the time.

But now it's my opinion that CB did this in an effort to build his/her credibility within this movement, to later discredit it by promoting debunked theories about no planes at the WTC.

CB, you've been exposed for being a disinformationist. It's obvious to anyone who's been paying attention to your behavior on this website.

Show "Anti video fakery Hysteria" by Peggy Carter
Show "yes, as I said, you got me" by CB_Brooklyn

Pssssssssst.

........i don't think people like you here.

Show "I'm sorry but this cannot go" by brianv
Show "More Unanswered Questions for Eric Salter. (Proof he is a fraud)" by CB_Brooklyn

What...

Is the name of your movement, and does it have anything to do with 9/11 Truth?
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Forgot to thank you yesterday for

this post. I wonder how you found out about a mailing list, as that information was sent to me privately via 911Bloggers's new PM function. Is your post confirmation that at least one 911b mod is a spook?

You Know...

This is a 9/11 Truth site. Here are some sites I recommend for you, and your group.

Looney Tunes
Looney Tunes UK
Tom & Jerry

There are many more, but the point is, this site is a 9/11 Truth site. It is not a site for talking about cartoons.

Please do us all a favor, and leave.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

9/11 Truth = Laws of Physics. [TV-Fakery is Now Proven]

If you'd like to discuss the reality (or lack thereof) of aluminum airplanes gliding through structural steel and steel-reinforced concrete like it glides through the air, then let's hear your arguments.

I suggest you start here, and explain how and why Newton's Laws of Motion were violated.

The only thing violated...

Has been 911Blogger.com by you and your cartoon lovin' friends. The fact that you don't even deny the harm you've caused shows me that at this point, I would be perfectly ok if every reference to "TV Fakery" was removed from this website, and a statement was made denouncing it from this site, and the movement.

Since it has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 Truth, it doesn't belong here.

I happily did it on my site a long time ago.

People still love me. I have no doubt that if a similar decision was made here, people would still love the team at 911Blogger.com.
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Show "Tv-Fakery Proven via Broken Physical Laws, TV-Fakery=9/11 Truth" by CB_Brooklyn

Want Solid Proof that Eric Salter's Pro-Planes Paper is CRAP?

Read this article by a real 9/11 researcher
and
set yourself free!
 

First Responder, David Miller said...

"This build up of people in very very coordinated efforts trying to take this movement apart. We, who are still dying from 9/11, who went into the towers, and into that pile, now live with those buildings in our lungs, our digestive systems, and our blood, and if you allow these scumbags to strip you and this movement of our legitimacy, you condemn first responders to death."
___________________________________

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."