Photographic Analysis of Damage to WTC7 and Critical Errors in NIST's Estimations

Photographic Analysis of Damage to WTC7 and Critical Errors in NIST's Estimations

By "Winston Smith" of 2006-10-19 - Last updated 2006-10-25

An interesting analysis of the collapse of WTC7, incorporating the latest available photographic evidence.

Via poster quicknthedead at the September 11 forum at

Off Topic

Suggestion, when you are voting tomorrow, everybody bring a camera with them to the voting booth and capture any voting error on video or still. (Some digital camera has a video option). I'm sure there are voting fraud sites you could upload them later.

Nice report, Rep. It's

Nice report, Rep.

It's painfully obvious that any damning evidence of the sparsity of damage to this building is being withheld... as is everything regarding the day's events, as we've all clearly seen.

I think we can rest assured that if there was enormous, structural integrity-theatening damage, we'd have seen several photos and/or videos by now.

I have seen video footage from govt/police choppers circling the complex right after the main towers collapsed, and every time the chopper camera approaches the South facade of WTC7, the video footage abruptly stops or cuts to another area. This is either deliberate obfuscation by the holders of these pieces of evidence, or the same kind of bizarre coincidence associated with 95% of the clandestine happenings of 9/11.

We rationalists are the oppressed minority

'We rationalists are the oppressed minority'

Jon Ronson
Saturday November 4, 2006
The Guardian,,1937479,00.html

I've been getting a lot of emails from people who believe 9/11 was an inside job. They say shadowy forces behind the Bush administration brought down the Twin Towers with controlled explosions. I log on to the British 9/11 Truth Campaign forum to see why they believe what they do. I introduce myself. Within minutes, posters are warning other posters not to trust me.

"Ronson's strings are being pulled," somebody writes. "You can bet there is a Zionist agenda somewhere in what he does." Another poster adds that my Zionist overlords and I don't only control the media, we also control "the money supply" and "everything else as well". And it was us "Zionists" who orchestrated 9/11.

Article continues
I tell them to stop being anti-semitic.

"I don't see any references to Judaism in this thread, Jon," comes the instant reply. "So what is your rationale for making this comment?"

"Hahaha, bless your soul, Jon," someone adds. "Playing the old religion card, huh? Don't try that one here, mate. It's cheap, pathetic and disgusting."

I feel battered by the relentlessness of their insults. "I'm not going back there again. Horrible, patronising, codeword-using anti-semitic bastards," I eventually think. "They're so irrational. They sit behind their computers all day, pontificating away, getting their 'facts' from YouTube. They probably all look like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons."

I pause, stare out of the window, and clean my glasses. "They're indicative of a whole New Irrationality sweeping the land," I think. "Yes, that's it. This is a cultural shift I'm identifying. Nowadays everyone's either a conspiracy theorist or a believer in mysticism or the paranormal or a religious zealot. What's happened to the enlightenment? Where is our voice? Nowadays, we rationalists are the oppressed minority."

I stare out of the window a bit more. Then I have a very significant thought: "It is time for rational, sceptical people like me to get off the fence and make ourselves known. It is time for us to be publicly and assertively rational."

I'm serious. And I know how to do it. I determine that, from this moment forth, whenever I meet someone with irrational beliefs, I'll patiently take the time to sit them down and point out to them why the things they believe are nutty and stupid.

"They'll probably be hostile to begin with," I think, "but they'll thank me in the end."

As a first step I buy Richard Dawkins's new book, The God Delusion. By page 67 I'm almost certain God doesn't exist. Dawkins argues that it's perfectly acceptable for us to exclude vicars from all intellectual debate and essentially be militant atheists, laughing in the faces of people who believe in things.

"Harsh," I think as I read, "but perhaps a necessary antidote for these irrational times."

Dawkins and I are the same. He's unshackled himself from any lily-livered residual respect for vicars. He doesn't buy the rose-tinted "country vicar coming round for tea" thing. He basically thinks vicars are no different to those 9/11 anti-semite lunatics. They're all part of the same problem.

"I really ought to feel derision for vicars, too," I think as I read. "And I will!"

After being racially abused by those 9/11 conspiracy theorists, it feels good to belong to a club of like-minded rationalists. And so it is that I leave the house on the hunt for irrational people to whom I can benevolently point out the error of their ways.

To be continued ...

· A collection of Jon Ronson's Guardian articles, Out Of The Ordinary: True Tales Of Everyday Craziness, is in the shops

Agents provocateur could well be the cause of Jon Ronson's

anti-Semitic harrassment (that is, if Ronson isn't one himself, for all we know)!

Anti Semitist

Anti Semitism is the now outdated phenomonon that occured after Jews were released from their ghettoes by their worst oppressors, the Rabbis. Anti Semitistism (opposed to arrogant Semitists, Chosen Ones) is valid disdain for Jewish Supremacists who are carrying out an ideological, economic and military war against the rest of the non Jewish world. Israel claims that criticism of its racist apartheid policies is anti semitic. Is research into how 911 was orchestrated by Israel as well, or that Israel controls the US government, media, academia? See James Petras, The Power of Israel in the United States.


who controls the banks, media, entertainment industry?
when was the last time ANY US senator or congressman spoke out against israel? why? fear or payoffs!
where is all of the $$ going that the US gives israel,
$16M per day going to and for?
what does the iapc do with all of it's funds?
who benefited the most from the 911 attack?
what did b.N. the ex pm of israel say after the 911 attacks?
Who said that the US was under our control? sharon!
Who attacked the USS Liberty and then denied it until they couldn't do so any longer?
who runs the US federal reserve? the fed reserve is no more fed than fed express!!
who is pushing the US to attack Iran?
who has at least 60 nukes of their own?
who stole land and said no country called palestine ever existed?
with alittle research i could list many, many more questions that require only a one word answer that ids no different than the answer to the questions above.
all jews are evil. neither are all gentiles.
unfortunately the ruling gentiles and jews of the US are and have nothing but power, $$, and domination on their agenda.
the same applies to the leaders of israel especially the zionists who will do ANYTHING, and i mean ANYTHING, to maintain contol of the land , and more, in the m.e.
i sorry if this has offended you but i'm calling a spade a spade.
9/11 was perpetrated by zionist israeli and american conspirators.
too much evidence points toward this conclusion to ever dissuade me of such!

you meant *not* all jews are evil right?

I assume so. you make a lot of valid points of course, though I would caution that claiming someone controls something is pretty extreme. while I think it IS odd that Fed Chairmen always seem to be white Jewish males, there is a difference between control and influence.

I DO think we need to have these discussions I just also think that we have to do our best to reframe the debate in less threatening and hateful tones than those used by hate groups (who I really do think get funding from Zionists--nothing like a nasty enemy to make you look good after all.)


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Not "all" evil

you are right i meant to write, not all evil.
i was thinking some about this topic more after writing before and asked myself...
why do muslims hate jews? land
why do muslims hate the US? israel
why do muslims hate the UK? israel
why does the US risk it's fate over israel? guilt about WWII?
why can't people critize israel without being called a jew hater or anti-semite?
why can anyother govt. of the world be critized via all conceivable means and nothing is thought of it?
israel and it's govt. are not infallible!
some zionists ARE terrorists!
israel is hardly an ally! where have they ever come to our aid? it's only window dressing and it is ALL about the money, power and domination.
if i EVER see anything akin to this in print or broadcast media i will thank God and praise him for giving someone enough guts to do so.
but it will NEVER happen because jews are in control of multi-media.
if i'm wrong about ANYTHING i've written here please let me know.
Why should our great nation(s) be pulled down and destroyed by outsiders and corrupt insiders?

fed reserve

research who the bankers and families of bankers were/are who started the fr and continue to control it.
control may be an extreme word to you but if i have something in my hand or something under my thumb i would definitely be in control of that whatever!

Jon Ronson - A special kind of rationalist!

A rationalist who seems to think it's OK to take on faith that buildings just happened to collapse in the exact manner as a controlled demolition without being caused by controilled demolition for the first and only time ever.

Ronson is clearly more religious than the vicars he condemns for being mystics. His religion has a few articles of faith-- 1) buildings can collapse when airplanes hit them or their neighbors, and asking how is sinful. 2) only people of the muslim faith are capable of conspiring against the freedom-loving world. 3) any insinuation that any group of jews anywhere is conspiring to commit a crime is the result of deeply ingrained irrational jew-hatred, aka anti-semitism. 4) being paid to write things makes the things you write make sense whether they do or not, but anything that is posted to youtube or anywhere else online is to be condemned as false whether it is true or not. 5) Reality is not reflected in the media, it is created by the media - to dispute what the media report is a mortal sin.

Did I miss any? This Ronson Church of Rationality has been founded just at the right time, since so many people are having trouble using old-fashioned moral systems to make sense of why an old Jewish real-estate developer's insurance fraud is dealt with by invading two middle eastern countries and murdering hundreds of thousands of muslims. Ronson's Church of Rationality offers the comfort of knowing one is right without resorting to evidence or faith in a higher being. All that matters is that your writing can be posted online with no room for people to comment and point out your errors.

Hooray for Ronson, the new god of reason!! All hail his brilliance and honesty!! Go ahead and collapse, evil buildings! We know that's just what you do!!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Show "Boy, RT, let me help you with that boot" by Anonymous (not verified)

you are qouting Michael

you are qouting Michael Shermer and you expect ANYONE here to take you seriously? your a rookie huh?

I'm starting to get pissed off

because it's obvious that recently we've really been getting the cut-rate trolls. This guy, for example, just posts the same thing over and over, in different threads. Don't you think we at least deserve original posts? I do, but I guess it's not in the budget.

Original? (And no, they can't afford it.)

These fascists are completely incapable of original, creative, imaginative thought, concepts, ideas or expression. THAT is exactly why this Neonazicon crap is destined to fail in the most unfortunately miserable way.

They have no idea WTF they've been doing... and that's why they make a mess of the world. That's why they would burn the constitution to a smoking cinder, fancy their hegemony as palatable to the whole world, and think "democracy-bullets" can be spewed from a gun.

Thanks for nothing, you mind-f*cked power-mad pieces of monkey crap.... Thanks for leaving such a shameful mess for We the People to clean up.

Do you Neo-Controllers REALLY want to do something good for the world? Slit your own damn wrists and become Real SuperPatriot HomeLand Heros.


"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

Show "You should learn to read, Erin" by Anonymous (not verified)

Is that you, 'Bert'? I

Is that you, 'Bert'? I think it's 'Bert', everyone, but Anonymous trolls all look the same.

So, 'Bert', a "handful of anomalies", huh? "Shadowy forces beind the Bush administration", that's what you think the score is, do you?

Get it straight, sunshine: It IS the Bush administration and their neo-con corportate backers and the anomalies are numbering in the hundreds of handfuls. And if you're really here to spread your message of rationality, you'll play alot better to the kiddies if you don't gratuitously insult them. Thanks, 'Bert'.

And Erin, don't let this tosser wind you up. Just give him(or her) a name. Since he can't think of one.

Show "Original posts?" by Anonymous (not verified)
Show "Come again? You CAN"T be serious." by Anonymous (not verified)

you forgot to add that we

you forgot to add that we are a fringe LEFT movement. aint that right Anonymous? so simple huh? ignorance is bliss. im glad youve found someone like Shermer to come to conclusions for you. its gotta be much easier letting others do the critical thinking for you huh? stay Anonymous, its actually a good call on your part seeing as how you can do nothing but throw insults and qoute others.

Show "You forgot something important" by Anonymous (not verified)

ouch! that might have hurt

ouch! that might have hurt if you had a name instead of going by Anonymous and taking snipes like a coward. it would also help if you thought for yourself and used YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS and not insults and other peoples qoutes. but thats asking way too much of someone as simple as yourself.


Chris IS NOT more foul mouthed than me, you psycho neo-con git!

I've got a rep to maintain, sunbeam; but then I guess, with all the half-baked shite that comes out of your arse, so do you.

So why do you bother comming here, 'Bert'? ( It is 'Bert', isn't it? It IS hard to keep all you ANonymous wankers straight. ) What do you want? Cause it's not a better world. It's not for facts, or research. What do you think you're trying to accomplish? What, you'll hurt our feelings so bad we'll--just stop?

Not going to happen, mate. 2,998 counts of premeditated murder. An administration that destroyed evidence and delayed the investigation 441 days. A white house that edited the EPA report on ground zero and lied saying the air was safe to breathe. Now some of the first responders are dying.

That's accesorry to murder after the fact. That's tampering with a murder invesigation. That's destruction of evidence of a felony. That's criminal endangerment of life. And manslaughter or second degree murder.

The above are the laws of the land. We are not going away until someing starts prosecuting the bastards for the above. You can get used to it.


Jenny, thank you.

Seriously, that's almost exactly what I wanted to say.

Anonymous, how much is the government paying you to come on here and post this non-sense? You have to be on their payroll because I don't see how anyone could not see the blatant lies and the cover-up involved in the government's "official" story.

It is obvious that you have no idea what is going on in the world. Do you know the history of America...not what you were taught in history class, but the real history of America? Do you about the Military Commissions Act and the Insurrection Act? Do you know about the detention camps and the FEMA camps that are being built in America? Do you know about the false-flag events of the USS Liberty and the Gulf of Tonkin? Do you know that the president knew that Pearl Harbor would be attacked and he allowed it to happen? Have you heard the truth about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman? Have you studied the Carlyle Group and Halliburton? Do you know that Prescott Bush and his associates backed Hitler in his rise to power? Do you know what happened to this country in 1913? Do you know about George Bush Sr.'s involvement with the murder of President John F. Kennedy? Do you know the facts of John Jr's murder? Do you know about Bush Sr.'s involvement with Cuba in the 50's and 60's? Do you know about Bush Sr's role in the CIA, his involvement with Nixon, his role in the Iran Contra scandal or his involvement in the drug running business? Have you ever heard of the Phoenix Project, Operation Northwoods or Project Mockingbird? Do you know anything about President Adams and Captain William Morgan? Do you know anything about the history of Freemasons and their role in the founding of America? Do you know anything about America and its "leaders"?

It seems like you are convinced that we are living in country where a 9-11 cover-up is not possible. I ask that you educate yourself to the facts and the questions of history.

"The Insurrection Act"?

Is this one of the recent ones I somehow missed?
If so do you have a link?

Also there's the Space Act(forgetting the exact name); was signed the same day as MCA of 2006--basically says nobody gets into space if the States don't like it. Sorry don't have a link; just remember it from 10/18/06 issue of my local crypto fascist daily.


The official title is the

The official title is the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (Bill H.R. 5122). It was signed on October 17 of this year. Some people call it the Martial Law Act of 2007. It's a revision of the Insurrection Act.

These are just a few links. If you do a search, you will find a lot of information on it.


Bert, really, even I was taken aback with that short list. What about you?

Tell me how torture is something I should wave the flag over. You crack-smoke'n shit weasel.

I think you're a bit out of

I think you're a bit out of sequence, but that's okay; we know who you're responding to.

Hey, maybe from now on ALL anonymous trolls should be called 'Bert'.

That'll learn 'em.

Either that or

I was just now waxing enthusiastic about the idea of naming all anonymous trolls after Sesame Street characters, when it is possible to tell them apart by their quirks, as it often is. Much entertainment potential there.

waxing their quirks

Can't wait for the episode where Mr Snuffuluffagus takes a squat on Elmo.

Where did Bert go?

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

Show "It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality" by Anonymous (not verified)

And before that, it was murdering Native Americans & making

Africans our slaves. What a proud history we have!

You have a BIG problem

You don\'t have any evidence. You THINK you do but you\'ve indicated that you don\'t know what constitutes evidence. Be thankful that you have someone willing to educate you on that fact.

Look in the mirror, see yourself:


Larry Silverstein - WTC Lease Holder

I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.

— Larry Silverstein - WTC Lease Holder

And later the same "pull-it" term was used when they "pulled" WTC-6!

And if you watch the video,

And if you watch the video, they physically pull the buildng down with lines, not blow it up!

20 year demolition pro Danny

20 year demolition pro Danny Jowenko thinks Silverstein's "pull it" comments regarding Building 7 meant to "blow it up":

Ronson's forum.

Jon Ronson looks like a 12

Jon Ronson looks like a 12 year old boy who hasnt hit puberty yet. no wonder hes such a douchebag.

Show "Reality bites" by Anonymous (not verified)

what must hurt is that your

what must hurt is that your life is so empty you feel the need to come here(by Anonymous no less, nice touch coward) and put us "9/11 deniers" in line. do you have a job? do you have any friends that you dont exclusively talk to online? your life must really suck man, if you can take so much time out of your day to waste on us. whats the plan? whats your motive? to "wake us up" with your insults and ad hominems? good luck jackass. a better use of your time would be to find some real friends and maybe a job.

Show "Sorry, Chris, I\\\'m an educator" by Anonymous (not verified)

:yawn:. you lose. that had

:yawn:. you lose. that had to be the weakest, most uninspired comeback ive seen yet. Anonymous, haha.

You can\'t stand the truth

You\'re on record, Chris.

And beaten. 9/11 was not an inside job.

I think Jon Gold got really

I think Jon Gold got really bored today and posted all of that. Nobody is that stupid, and Jon is conspicuously absent...

If not, I think we have a growing problem, and someone should put fresh bait in all the troll traps...

Jon is brushing up.

You should help him brush up on The Jon Gold Woo-Woo Credo.

Meanwhile, we still wait evidence that \"9/11 was an inside job.\"

After 5 years of asking.

Hey Anonymous...

Did you write the following on this website about a week ago?

"just so you know who i am: i\'m not an 9/11 truth activist (yet).

i\'m sitting on the fence of wether to actively dive into this movement more deeply.

in the past i\'ve been involved in the european anti-nuclear power station movement.

here i\'m only a lurker for now, since about 5 months.

i\'m visiting this site a few times each week because the topic has triggered my curiosity.

meanwhile i\'m convinced the government lies, and the three wtc towers did not come down because of fires and jet fuel alone.

somebody must have helped the 19 suspected terrorists (or replaced them)."


Are you being serious?

Wow, after making my post above, I scrolled down and read this. You're educating someone "about truth and reality"? So I guess the answer to my questions above about the history of America are "yes" then?

You say that you do know about truth and reality so that makes your opinion that the government's "official" story is true even more confusing. You do know the truth and reality, but you think the government's "official" story is I would disagree that you are educating anyone on "truth and reality".

Your ignorance shows

The canard about a \"government story\" was squashed years ago. You are too ignorant to understand that the massive evidence neither originated from, nor is controlled by, the government. That canard is necessary for you 9/11 Deniers so you can try to get away with avoiding the ACTUAL evidence.

We all have known that for years. And none of us need to rely on what the government says or doesn\'t say. The EVIDENCE is independent of whatever the government says.

Everyone except you handful of irrational nutters understands that the preponderance of evidence converges on an inescapable conclusion that you have never been able to refute.

So, yes, the Truth is on my side and you are in complete denial of it. One day, maybe you\'ll have the guts to face your prejudice and ignorance.

How dare you, sir? How dare

How dare you, sir? How dare you attempt to associate those of us who want the truth about the events of 9-11 with a cult.

You have no interest in any form of the truth. By "official government story", I meant the "official" story that the government supports and if you do not think that story was written and produced with the backing of those in the highest levels of our government then that proves your ignorance to the way this world really works (government, business and corporations) and the way that things happen within them.

To say the "truth" is on your side is the least credible thing you could possibly say. It is also the most insane thing I have read in your posts.

You sir, have proven your ignorance to the world around you.

I never understood the firefighters' claims of heavy damage

to WTC-7! The proof is just not there!

Take Chris Boyle's account for example:

2. Captain Chris Boyle:
Boyle:"...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good."

Firehouse: "When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?"
Boyle: "I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it."

Firehouse: "When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?"

Boyle: "There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it."

Is Boyle sure he is speaking of WTC-7 and not WTC-6 or WTC-5? No photo evidence supports his "huge gaping hole filled with fire at WTC-7" claim!

Also, at what time were Boyle's comments made? (Was it moments before WTC-7 fell, as the incediaries & explosives were beginning to destroy the building?) Why, and at what time, was "debris (still) falling down on the building" as Boyle said?

Remember, the North Tower was 350 feet away of WTC-7; the South Tower much further than that. Why was such heavy debris ejected all the way to WTC-7?

Sheraton Hotel Video

Any news on the release of the hotel footage ? Judicial Watch said a while ago they expect it to be handed to them by November 9th - after the Citgo disappointment, any hopes of this proving what happened there at last ?

sorry to be off topic, but

sorry to be off topic, but isnt that "Flight 77" tape supposed to be released today?

I heard the release will be on Nov. 9.

The FOIA request for the video was made by Judicial Watch, which used to be a valid gov't watchdog group, but it was bought/taken-over by NeoCon shills a few years ago.

the video is supposed to be

the video is supposed to be released by Nov. 9. Rumours have been spreading that if it actually shows flight 77 it would probably be released before the election.

i don't think it matters if it REALLY shows it...

All it takes is for the buzz and BS to stay aloft for 24 hours while people vote, and before they figure out it's another inconclusive blob or a fake. Look for it very very soon, maybe late tonight or early tomorrow morning!

So, now that Saddam has been sentenced, can we say Mission Accomplished? I mean, killing Saddam was always the point, right?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


thanks. yeah, one of the

thanks. yeah, one of the original Judicial Watch guys is suing the current head of the group. i wanna say his name is Tom Fetton, but im not positive. i saw him appear on Fox News after the last "Flight 77" tape was released though, and he seemed way too happy to say "this will now put to rest the conspiracy theories" despite the fact that even O'Reilly had to admit the tape proved nothing. he made quite a few suspicious statements like that in the media after the tape was released.