9/11 Protest Sign

Steve sent me this new video with the following comment:

"Please watch this 4 minute video of me in front of the World Trade Center on September 11, for the 5th anniversary to understand the extent of the police state we are currently living under when the NYPD order me to remove my banner from PUBLIC property because it said that 9/11 was done by the USA. Please also witness to the degree the movement has been infiltrated and compromised by police informants. 1 minute and 38 seconds into this video for 15 seconds you will see a young government agent wearing a black hat and black hooded sweatshirt disguised as an organizer work with uniformed police to silence my free speech and stop other activists from helping me."

Note: I don't know any of the people involved, and so can't vouch for who is who.

Gee, I wonder why the person who submitted this

didn't want to log in and blog it themselves?

Maybe cuz they're totally full of shit?

Since all the comments disappeared when this was pulled from the front page (it shouldn't have been there in the first place) I have to repeat -

The person that "Steve" is accusing of being a "young government agent" is Luke, an NYC truth activist who did a lot of work organizing the 9/11/2006 events. He organized the First Responders event. Someone's got it out for him, obviously.


I know Steve. I believe that he is a good person. I believe that he has good intentions. Sadly, I believe, as do many others here in Vermont, that (for reasons about which I will not speculate in this public forum) his greatest success is in dividing and ultimately destroying groups working on good causes. I don't think he sets out to do this deliberately, but this is what happens. Just look at the time and energy wasted in dealing with this groundless allegation of his. He has made similar allegations here in Vermont. I suggest that everybody move on, but be aware of the effects of groundless accusations like the one at hand (attributed to Steve in this case) and discourage this sort of behavior in the future. I am not singling out Steve, by the way, we need to guard against groundless accusations from ANY source. We cannot waste our time and energy on pointless battles among ourselves. This sort of thing is far more dangerous than any secret agent could be.



"1 minute and 38 seconds

"1 minute and 38 seconds into this video for 15 seconds you will see a young government agent wearing a black hat and black hooded sweatshirt disguised as an organizer work with uniformed police"

^ Whoever wrote this is a c*cksmoker, from what I've seen that "young government agent" who's actually called Luke is one of the most committed 9/11 Truth activists in New York. And regardless that sign is completely untactful and offensive, let alone inaccurate. "USA" didn’t "DO 9/11", by saying that you're implying that the people and their county did something heinous to themselves. That's going to insult anyone. It wasn’t "USA" it was a group of rouge "elites" who don't regard themselves as American, or connected to any moral peoples at all I'd imagine.

Which one is Steve?

Photobucket - Video and Image HostingPhotobucket - Video and Image HostingPhotobucket - Video and Image Hosting


Which one are you, Steve?

Do you have anything to say for yourself or your sign or your smear attempt against Luke?

What do you think of this one...

The provocateur guy that's going on about communists, 60's etc.. 18 secs into the "protest sign vid"

Is it the same guy that was "not very nice" on the 9-Sep-2006 at St. Marks Church (pictured below).

Can see the Google video footage (approx 27 mins in, after Sander Hicks) - HERE

good catch

I think "Steve" made a big mistake sending this in - and not the kind of mistake Peggy Carter would like to have us to believe.


You don't even know which one is the guy who brought the banner.

yep, thats the guy

i meant (when i posted below..).
highly supspicious guy. totally outlandish, in a way.
and hes showing all this interest just 'cause hes sick of these conspiracy theories' ...

same hair, ears, nose,

same hair, ears, nose, sunglasses, jaw line, black soul...

THIS guy is a real paid-for flunkie.

They don't grow like that natural.

Pretty obvious.

Classic agents provocateur to smear the truth movement!

The guys with the controversial “USA DID 9/11” banner at the 5-year Ground Zero truth memorial seem like classic agents provocateur (Federal agents or undercover NYC police officers). They typically have accomplices in the crowd who will heckle them and try to stir-up the rest of the people against them. In this case, the goal was clearly to make truthers look foolish, crazy, and “anti-American.”

Real truthers like Luke at the 1:38 mark knew that banner would do more harm than good at the 9/11 memorial services, and he rightly pointed this out to the 2 shills.

(Also notice that the shills didn’t have an “Investigate 9/11” banner, but a much more contentious “USA DID 9/11” banner.)

Another reason agents provocteur are used is to incite the crowd

into becomming unruly or violent, so then mass arrests can be made.

Show "Get a clue" by Greg Nixon (not verified)

So "steve" isn't his real name?

And you want to call us morons?

"Alec, what is 'how to really undermine your own credibility?'"

Could you tell us more about "Steve" please?

Since "Steve" seems to have a problem speaking for himself, maybe you could help us out. Which one is he in the pictures above? What kind of "hard working activism" is he up to? How did he manage to make it through the anniversary activities without learning that Luke was the primary organizer of the whole weekend? Does he feel that the First Responders event had any merit? Does he have any regrets for sending in an anonymous post to this site attempting to smear Luke as infiltrator?


Wow, good work guys.

Wow, good work guys.

Also nice to get a picture of one of these scumbags... The guards at the Nazi concentration camps were just 'following orders' too.

 <edit: And I sure as hell am not talking about Luke>

I don't know why, but I love

I don't know why, but I love that guy talking about "traitor" and saying "Bin Laden did it" with such conviction...

There's just something really comical about it. I mean, it's sad, but I find it humorous. I don't even get angry at the hostile ones anymore. Funny how things transition like that.

Oh, and Cool Hand Luke FTW!

Oh, and Cool Hand Luke FTW!

Maybe it sounds so "comical"

because they are acting out a ridiculous script. As someone noted above, that's often how provacteur operations work - one part of the team does the provoking and the other does the responding. Both of the "angry" shouting men in that video struck me as completely FAKE.



Great banners !!!!!

I love the banners.
Very striking, unambiguous, no limited hangout ...
the whole truth .....

"USA did 9/11" is a fact.

As long as the American people continue to collaborate and play along with the entire false-flag terror hoax.
Especially the cowardly cops and firemen who have remained silent ("to protect their jobs" ?) ....
when thousands of them KNOW that the buidlings were blown up.

Thanks to these brave activists for carrying those banners, and for speaking truth to power.
I don't give a good goddamn who is offended by the truth.

Americans were murdered in cold-blood, on American soil, in full public view ..... by their own government and military.
The corporate media made the hoax possible.
And the firemen and cops were complicit by default.
They make it worse by continuing to collaborate with the Big Lie.
I'll tell any one of them precisely that ....
I'll get right up in his "good German" face and tell him.


Am I afraid of making people angy ?
Hell no.
They SHOULD be angry.
And if they weren't such gutless, mindless sheep ...
they WOULD be outraged.
It's called "appropriate emotional affect".

Anyone who isn't consumed with rage at the brainwashing of America, since 9/11 ....
simply isn't human anymore.

I plan on contacting the activists who made and carried those "provocative" banners and contributing whatever I can afford, to help their effort.


Isn't it spelled "shillgirl"?

Do you use a script writer or is this your own work?

Is that what passes for an argument these days ?

I have no idea who "Luke the long-time activist" is.
But from the description in this thread, he sounds like another left-gatekeeper to me.
"Investigate 9/11" (especially at this ridiculously late date) is so transparently lame and morally limp-wristed, it sounds like it was penned by George Soros.

"Investigate" ?
Like we haven't already presented briefs to Spitzer and Morganthau and the rest of these criminals ?
How about "indict and arrest" ...... ?
It's good enough for legal expert Morgan Reynolds.

"Investigate 9/11" is pure gatekeeping against the truth; even more gratingly so 5 years after the fact.

Are you old enough to remember to remember the aftermath of the JFK hit, and the methods that were used to silence dissenters and critics of the Warren Report ?
spircy and the gatekeeping that was used to silence That's when the term "conspiracy theory" first entered popular parlance ... as a gatekeeping meme.
To see it used by "progressives" and "leftists", as a form of counter-insurgent thought control was disgusting.
How nauseating to watch the work of all the fake "movement" orl "left" gatekeeping sons-of-bitches like Chomsky, Alexander Cockburn or Amy Goodman ...

The critics of "USA Did 9/11" lack the backbone to stand up for the truth and fight for it.... defend it.
That's why such cowards will never be followed by the American people, whatever sort of media-endorsed or cult "following" they might hold at the moment.

Mass movements don't follow lame, limp, mushy rhetoric, limited-hangouts, quibbling about the truth;

That's not what leadership is about.
It's not about stroking people, or reinforcing their illusions.
It's not about surrendering before the real battle has even started.

That is what "Investigate 9/11" REALLY translates to, at this late date.

When I see overt gate-keeping, I recognize it.
And I am long famiiar with the typically self-serving, opportunst, careerest or just plain intellectually dishonest ratonalizations that try to excuse it.
And it is that sort of mentatlity at work, effectively on behalf of the 9/11 perps themselvesl
... by attempting to censor or silence people who would proclaim "USA Did 9/11".

"USA did 9/11" is just not accurate.

WTF does it mean? Bush/Cheney? All three branches of government? The governors of all fifty states and Puerto Rico acting in evil collusion? Just because it fits on a banner doesn't make it right, and when it's inflammatory in addition to being sloppy, it's full of shit.

You talk a good game...

The INVESTIGATE 9/11 t-shirts

are badass.

I wore mine in a federal courtroom this morning and there was nothing I would rather have been wearing. The new INVESTIGATE 9/11 hoodies are cozy and chic as fuck - you can feel the impact of the statement you are making as you walk down the street. ;)


yep, the guy with the sunglasses

at around 0:30, saying 'bin laden did it, communist'... he's in another video from 9.11.06, where he attends some 'conspiracy nuts' event , to stir things up...
he indeed is totally 100% suspicious.

Where oh where is "Steve"?

It's hilarious and quite enlightening to see who is sent out to speak for "Steve". You guys are so fucking busted.

Double post, then added info.

On the other side of "US did 9/11" was "9/11 was a U.S. Black Op"

"Investigate 9/11" slogan has historically caused fights.

If we are not confident in what we say and what we are doing, how can we inspire others?

I would wager that Luke is not one of those who supports an "Investigate 9/11" type banner. He was so stoked to parade this Halloween with the "9/11 was an Inside Job" banner. Thousands saw it. Some cheered when they saw us. And afterward everyone felt, "Good job tonight." And it was. (We gave out ~800 "9/11 Mysteries" DVD and 8000 fliers). Many that night said it was important just for people's eyes to see it and that itself will do something.

The whole concept of what is going on in this thread just overwhelms me and I'm at a loss for words. Also, I know, in saying what I think, there'll be renewed attacks. Bleh.

I spoke with the man who brought the banner down from VT, since it was the best banner there. He was told to leave the small park near the South-East corner of the erstwhile World Trade Center complex. He was told the "people who own the park" - who were watching from above in a nearby building, were offended. I spoke to local activists who said we should find someone willing to get arrested for it, since in the agreement with the city, whereby private owners gave that land for a park, there was a stipulation that civil rights, i.e. in particular the right of free speech and assembly, would still be guaranteed there.

My friend, from the No Police State coalition, said that we could probably get damages from the city for this (often the city doesn't mind paying damages after the fact - and just want the protestors out of the way for public events.) The feeling was that, if possible, we shouldn't allow this precedent. And should make clear our rights in court. We should get used to defending our rights.

The man with the banner, I'll call him Steve, since that was the ID given for the blog entry, (and I don't remember his name anyway, if that isn't it), wasn't prepared to get arrested. Neither was I. So nothing came of it and he rolled up the banner. But later paraded with it.

And I've got a nice photo of it in front of Spitzer's office. :)

Luke was representing the position of the Loose Change fellows who had made an agreement beforehand with the police to keep in tune with the theme of the day: "memorial."

We were scripted in as part of the event!

We were allowed to ring the memorial bell and do a procession, in some kind of perfectly timed ceremonial way. Back and forth across from the subway entrance we marched.

We were *so* part of the ritual.
Completely integrated.

Merging with the crowd and passing out loads of DVD's, and also just giving the message via the black T-shirts. It was good.

At the time I felt our treatment was in tune with a fairy story logic: As "Don't repress the unconscious or it will curse you and come back with a vengence" is taught from a fairy tale. The witch will curse, when she is not invited to the christening. So they invited us to avoid our curses. We were formally integrated into the ceremony and I think this was a way for the perps to attempt to avoid our revenge. ;)

It's difficult to explain to those at 9/11 blogger, who are apparently so brainwashed/conditioned by the mass media that they do not know reality, that we were completely accepted by the crowd.

There were so few counter-protestors, it was pathetic (for them.)

We were *very* strong in numbers. But the Press and the family-official mourners/ Press went into the site for their own ceremony, by another entrance on the other side, (North side), from where we were.

Alex Jones was also allowed across the street from the subway entrance with a bullhorn. (East side)

Some people were saying that the leniency towards us was allowed since the police themselves knew something stank.

It's seems to me they must have a good idea of that.

At some point, while circumambulating the entire site I found myself with a friend walking through an area in front of the memorial mural at the side of the firehouse, across the street from the site. They told us this was just for people who were mourners. Well, I am, since a unique (vouched for by the chief of police at his funeral), irreplaceable and very close friend, a police officer, died there. (He was also someone committed to civil liberties.) So they allowed us through, even sporting the t-shirts. Me, in the black official protest "INvestigate 9/11" t-shirt, and my friend, in white, with the more discreet:

Someone, whom I met later at St. Mark's, asked to interview us, just as we were walking out of the place demarkated for mourners. In the midst of that a woman started screaming at me: she had someone die there.

I said I had too.

Then I told her, "Respect the dead. Respect the dead. Honor the dead."

She couldn't understand me and kept screaming. Then it finally sank in and she said "that is what I am doing here."

I said, "We are doing that too. The dead deserve the truth. The dead deserve the truth.The dead are not honored by lies. Honor the dead."

The police made the woman get away from me. It's all caught on film somewhere.

Many of the police are hip to the actual situation. Ditto the local fire dept. people. Last time we had a big presence at Union Square (I need to post the pics of that. It was quite amazing, the crowds we attracted) a fire truck came by on 14th St. They cheered us as they passed. It was surreal and encouraging.

I'm unsure of the reasoning behind why we were treated so well at the memorial. The vibe of the police was tangible. I've been to many protests and we are usually not. Ever. (Except one Halloween ago, when I was marching with the anti-torture people. The police were more encouraging than the public.)

Discussing the very positive police vibe with people familiar with activism around the city, during our participation in the memorial event, the conclusion was drawn that it wasn't the police themselves, but the "suits and brass," who must've given the orders, to the foot-soldier police, that we should be totally tolerated, and even protected from those who might start shouting at us. Our treatment was not an accident, of that there is no doubt.

Per the instructions by the LC organizers, no leafletting was permitted/engaged in, but ~8K (so I was told) Loose Change DVDs were literally grabbed from our hands.

I found the mourners especially eager for the DVD!

There was no mistake what the DVD was about either, since we all had the T-shirts. Many people from the public, on the street, kept calling out to me all day, "Where did you get that T-shrt?" followed by "I want one so much." If someone had more of them, and wanted to sell, thousands could've been sold that day.

The sick follow-up on the very retro issue of the "investigate 9/11" slogan, at 9/11 blogger, is that I just got an email from our local group saying a new banner was needed and the slogan would be "Investigate 9/11".

I made my case in the email list and we'll see what happens.

Here is what I wrote:

"I believe "Investigate 9/11" is too weak for a slogan. Even in the first year after the event some people were preferring, "9/11 was an Inside Job" and there was a fight over it.

"Investigate 9/11" implies there needs to be a new investigation. Which is true. But what it suggests, in practical application, is a new investigation by the Government. That's how the slogan will be interpreted.

In other words, we seem to be asking the Powers-that-be to investigate themselves. Once again. Or it can easily be construed or spun that way. Which is already the plan, I believe, should things get too hot.

A new investigation can be controlled just like the last one was.

The perps will just make a new fake investigation like they did 10+ years after the Kennedy murder. I'm sure a fallback postition is for a "limited hangout." And to cast the blame on some patsies or foot soldiers of the actual planners, movers and shakers."

I think half or more of the peeps at 9/11 blogger don't even themselves hand out fliers or otherwise try to spead the word. They're waiting for the Media to break the story. And for the government to call for a new investigation of itself. Suckers. They argue an "9/11 was an inside job" - type slogan is too "extreme," but have no idea how any of this is actually received by the public here in NYC.

One could argue, "USA did 9/11" is actually true because of all the US hangouters, Media complicity, denial, and refusal to look at the obvious, by the majority here? Still I think "9/11 is an Intelligence Black Op" is superior. Because I really do think the American public is better than that.

The choice of words matters.

I totally agree with Peggy Carter's observations and summary of the situation.

At worst, the slogan "USA Did 9/11" might be accused of casting too broad a net, or implying that the Ameircan people themselves bear the guilt, not only for allowing such a transparent and bloody false-flag psy-op to be perpetrated, but for the last 5 yeras as well: the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, the continuing brutal occupation of Iraq, the open rigging of the Presidential eledtion of 2004, the gutting of basic Constitutional rights, the official sanction of torture and "extraordinary rendition" (abduction), the secret prisons and dungeons .....
..... all these things we have witnessed over the last 5 years.

Do ordinary Ameircans bear any kind of moral responsibility or accountabillity for the last 5 years ?

Or are we skittish about being too " confrontational" ....
too "antagonistic" ..... too ... honest ?

Leadership is, essentially, CONFRONTATION.
Confrontation with illusion, with deception, with self-deception, with apathy, with feeble ratiionalization ....
Confrontation with the whole "good German" mentality that has historically accomdated outrages like 9/11 (eg. the Reichstag Fire)...
and cleared the popular path to fascism and tyranny.

The challenge of leadership is to force people to confront their own failure to face the truth, To strip them of illusions.

We can argue about which slogans communicate best and which are most effective. That is certainly an issue of strategic importance.
It should be discussed and argued, point by point, pros and cons.
It is a legitimate argument.
I respect the criticisms of those who argue from an honest commitment to the whole truth, and to the justice that truth demands.

But there can be no compromise with the truth.
The WHOLE ugly truth, not a sanitized or limited-hangout version.
Not a version of the truth that is "acceptable", "tolerable", popular.... because " ... it won''t upset people's feelings..."
5 years after the fact, we are well beyond "sensitivity training sessions" for 9/11 activists......
"USA Did 9/11" might be legitimately criticizezd or questioned for its confrontational style .... it is certainly a blunt and broad instrument.
But is is infinitely closer to the truth than the creakingly feeble and senile slogan "Investigate 9/11".

Thanks to Peggy Carter for her thoughtful reflections on her own experiences at street level, with these issues.

I see it differently

I don't see the INVESTIGATE 9/11 slogan as asking the phony fascist US government for a goddamn thing (although it certainly implies that an actual official investigation hasn't been done, which it hasn't). I see it as an exhortation to anyone who reads the message: INVESTIGATE 9/11 - for yourself! - which obviously many, many people need to do. Anyone with a few firing synapses left can't miss the message behind the statement and in a way it's more enticing than a declaration of INSIDE JOB (a message I wear as well) as it encourages people to look for themselves.

I'm talking t-shirts tho - if I was making a new banner I would go for INSIDE JOB, for sure. :)

re: Signs, banners, t-shirts .... just opening the door

I have several t-shirts purchased from propagandamatrix, some years back, that show the now-iconic visage of Osama bin Laden (the classic "skinny" bin laden, of course).
Captioned underneath, it says: CIA Operative (1979-89)

At best, the t-shirts can only be an entre to serious discussion.
I wear them just about everywhere, especially to public places like the mall or Wendy's.
And of course they are convenient to wear to 9/11-related events.

Very rarrely, usually sympathetically, some stranger will ask me if I encounter hostility towards me for wearing such a big picture o bin Laden.
But the truth is, most people probably can't remember who it is when they first see it.
The ones who know, hardly ever show any reaction.
On occasion, in a mall or coffee shop, fteenagers will nod approvingly and compliment me in passing.
Very brief and kind of hip, cool, edgy thing.

I can count on one hand, the number of times that someone has actually stopped, stood and stared long and hard.
Usually an older person, someone in their 50s or 60s.
I was wearing the shirt at a WorldCantWait/After Downing Street/Kevin Zeese campaign event last year, and Ray McGovern was standing next to me silently smiling, as if to indicate interest or even approval of the t-shirt.

The best responses I ever got to a t-shirt, were down at the Vietnam Veterans Wall on Memorial Day this year.
This is another one that propagandamatrix doesn't sell anymore, for some reason...
It is a bright red shirt with a color picture of the melted remains of the girders at the Towers ... you know ... another photo-icon shown widely in the media.
The caption reads
"Look What Your Government Did .
Now Shut-up and give up your rights."
It is really striiking.
I wish Pau Joseph Watson would make those available again.l
I also pasted a bumper sticker from Alex Jones to a manila folder that simply says "9/11was an Inside Job" and carried it around.
The Viet vets and their friends and relatives were either oblvious to us, neutral, or actively and positively approving.
Quite a few laughed and cracked jokes about the shirt.
NO ONE actively disapproved or displayed hostiity.
All this is the gods-honest-truth, as a well-known local Baltimore-DC 9/11 Truth organizer (also active around the DU contamination issue) will confirm, since she co-ordinated our little foray.
T-shirts are powerful weapons.
We should be distributing them for free by the thousands to everyone who will wear them.

But the messages should be well-thought out and shirts should be of better quality than the ones I got.
I doubt that the attached images will stay glued to the t-shirt through more than one washing.

Yeah... I'm a big advocate for the t-shirts.
I really fell in love with the Deception Dollars at first.
Was handing them out and mailing them by the dozen or so a day.
Sometimes a couple dozen in a parking lot or down at Harbor Place.
I don't especially like all the WEB sites (especially Ruppert's) listed on the D-Dollars, but the artwork and graphics are fantastic.
Never fails to get a big laugh fro people.
They take 2 or 3 at a time for the kids and friends.

Tools like the t-shirts, Deception Dollars, DVDs (even brash John Connor style), posting videos at youtube ....
all of these things show us that the real war over 9/11 is a "kulturkamf", a war to be waged principally in the arena of popular culture and the arts, BEFORE it transforms into an active mass movement of great numbers, in preparation for such inevitable circumstances as economic failures, general strikes and likely attempts at military coups.

The messages popularized (as memes) should be simple, direct, complete and well-thought out ... encapsulating an entire discussion.
For example, in the French Revolution, you had popular slogans like "Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite" ... or "Apres Mois Le Deluge", etc.
Lenin and the Bolsheviks packaged their entire program in the simple slogan "Piece, Land, Bread".
And they merged it with pcitorial symbols as well (memetic icons)

Long before modern mass marketing arrived (Bernays and Madison Avenue) American history was chock full of these memes:
"Taxation without Representation is Tyranny"
"Live Free or Die"
"Dont' Tread on Me"
"Millioins for Defense, Not One Cent for Tribute"
"54-40.. or Fight !"
"John Brown's body lies a mouldering in the grave ..."

These word-packets help communicate the substance of a democratic political culture.
Conversely, effective use of well-crafted phrases can be a useful tool for totalitarian regimes as well.
As Goebbels understood.

And as the intellectual godfathers of the "War on Terror" (from Leo Strauss to PNAC) also clearly understand.

Peggy Carter

I find it odd that you imply that you know Luke but you didn't have one word of support for him in the face of this attempted smear.

Useless Smears

Luke didn't need any defenders. He was getting plenty of cover from you-all.

I'm sure, too, that we all put a lot of importance on the useless smears coming from 9/11 blogger .com.

Luke could give a damn about the tempest in a tea pot. I'm sure he'd get along fine with the guy from VT were they properly introduced. (They are both very cool). It was a mistake in communication.

I didn't put too much importance on you-all's attacks based on ignorance. I didn't like the automatic pile-on I saw here. The guy from VT made a mistake. But he's right to know how the police and infiltrators work. So it was an honest mistake, from someone from out of town.

It was interesting to watch this group flip-out with vituperative language and get all high and mighty and self-righteous - thinking they know who's in the right and who's wrong, and being so certain of it.

Really illustrates this group's dynamics.

I spoke to Luke last night, told him what was going on on this board - as much as he was interested. He wants to join in, but his computer is down. And he let me know he completely despises John Albanese. I'll have to find out more why.

They're down to Ground Zero today. I should get myself together and head over to the Ethical Culture Center. There's a big jamboree around Cindy Sheehan there today.


He was pretty upset about this being posted and was glad that someone, even if only one person, stood up for him.

Good looking out, Peggy Carter.


By the time I found the post, it wasn't needed

If the info was new and needed, I would've added it.

By the time I found the thread, Luke's reputation was already being defended.

Your powers of reasoning (or lack thereof) are showing through yet again.

That's a passable excuse

But pretty fucking lame, really.

I'm going to make you work for your pay.




Meant to edit, but was stymied

Started to add : You should get a job as a fink!

You are making shit up.

45 minutes after the post was up, Dem Bruce defended Luke and ID'd him.

"Oh he was waiting for one person....."

The lengths to which you stretch, to make me "wrong," or somehow "evil," are truly amazing.

If your powers of reasoning were better (unless you are just pretending to be stupid) you'd realize you are the one with the personality of a fink.

I was going to suggest you get a job as one, if you don't already have it. But you beat me to it, accusing me of the same first.


yep DBLS called it too

But no one else seemed to know who he was - though they realized what was going on they couldn't stand up for him because they didn't know him. I also found it odd that all the respondants standing up for "Steve" and his smear attempt were characters with either a) a history of provocation or b) no-planers.

until 3 days later

That is, until 3 days later - when your team finally figured out that flaw and cobbled together a real earnest-sounding post by an Anonymous who wasn't blatantly affiliated with the disinfo that you and your ilk purvey.

What "flaw?" Are you Nutszo? Quack ! Quack!?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you think I'm part of a "team" out there to discredit Luke, you'd better adjust your meds. Seriously.

Everyone knows Luke. No one who I know would take the posting from VT seriously. Ever. They would know it was a mistake. As I did.

Here's the analogy:

If you all actually knew the TV Fakery and the Wood's commentary were absolutely untrue, you wouldn't be twisting yourselves all up, in and out, every day, hour, and second, trying to smear it, attacking the people who are looking at it, energetically and constantly attacking the messengers.

You would just let it drop. It would be a waste of your time!

Your own information, and what you are doing with it, would be enough.

(You perhaps would instead be better spending your time by attacking the people who really should be attacked: the people who are blocking 9/11 info to the public....i.e. the Media. And passing the word to the people who really have no clue.)

So I knew: The guy from VT was blatantly mistaken. But a good guy.

I sit on the sidelines and skim the thread while your "ilk" tear someone to shreads: someone you take a dislike to or somehow sniff-out, (in your own "minds" only, of course).

I don't need to defend myself to you for not taking part in your little hate-fest. Obviously fed by your, now quite obvious, paranoia.

I let it drop. That's not a crime. That's not a sign I'm an agent. I have other things to do. Others threads to follow. Other things to watch. I need to make dinner.

The fact i did not post anything sooner than I did....proves one big fat thing:


And if you can't get that, NO SURPRISE, since you have not impressed me with your reasoning powers up til now.

Ever read "1984?" I am now. You remind me of those kids in it who are in the club the "Spies.":

You're trackn' people down.

The fact they are innocent, doesn't seem to faze you. Or occur to you. As this incident proves.

The truth outs. It has its own reality.

You're really nutty if you think I deliberately tried to sabotage Luke's reputation by not joining in with your stupid little meaningless sqawk-fest, demeaning someone as the most evil agent on the planet when you had no idea anything about this guy.

It was ridiculous.

This stupidity just proves your serious lack of reasoning power and I really glad you brought it up - since you are just demonstrating for all to see your "powers" of reasoning! (better called "lack")

And as far as posting anonymously so that, supposedly, people would be more open to what I have to say.....that is an Albanese trick, as any careful observer would've noticed by now. I don't do that shit.

Is that the best you can come up with?

Quack Quack?

"If you all actually knew the TV Fakery and the Wood's commentary were absolutely untrue, you wouldn't be twisting yourselves all up, in and out, every day, hour, and second, trying to smear it, attacking the people who are looking at it, energetically and constantly attacking the messengers."

Absolutely wrong, Peggy Carter. If it was just some idiot's mistaken research it would indeed be easily ignored. Unfortunately, as you very well know - it's wrong on purpose. And it's promoted - SPAMMED relentlessly, in fact - on this board day in day out. It's disinfo garbage designed to impede the movement and it will be confronted, resisted and removed. Energetically. :)

What happened to the Ethical Cultural Center?

Did you blow your load early and decide to stay in?

Got distracted by your stupid attacks.

I think you're wrong that the TV Fakery and Wood's research are promoted by deliberate disinfo.

I think the deliberate disinfo are those who would block it.


And "blow your load" is not a term easily applied to a female. For your information.


I meant metaphorically.

Your gender will get you a pleasant remark from casseia and that's about it.



I have no idea what you are talking about
Not sure what you refer to here.

If I do something like that it's not metaphoric.

"Lord of the Flies" anyone?

So let me get this right. I'm being attacked now because I didn't join the pile-on in attacking the guy from VT ?

Sick fuck.

Have you seen this person?

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Falcon is a member of the "Spies" in good standing

Are you going to get out your stick and turn me into the ThoughtPolice?

Hey Peggy

You know we completely disagree on very important stuff, but I gotta say, you are a very attractive woman. Striking, even. Just sayin' (and now I will duck in anticipation of the shitstorm of negative points.)

Thank you Casseia.

It is scary to get one's picture put up as though on a "Wanted" poster.


Also, above...meant to say "turn me in to" not "turn me into" Thought Police.

I do very much appreciate your personal,( though I realize not political), support......it can get like a nasty boys club around here.......from both sides.....so thank you.....

But you blocked my edit again!

No problem. My fault, I know. :)

Don't bother playing for sympathy

Everyone on this board has witnessed your relentless attacks on Steven Jones.

You Got Your Facts Wrong Again YT

Oh, so I guess all your attacks on me were based upon your assumption...that I attacked Steven Jones?

Same as you attacked the guy from VT without checking any facts?

I never attacked Steven Jones, not once.

I don't know where you get "relentless attacks."

Can you show me my "relentless attacks?"

No I don't think so

And no I'm not going to dig up your shit.


Because it doesn't exist!

Can't even show me one? When it's been "relentless"?
You're a liar!

It doesn't exist.

What a bogus liar! Full of criminal libel.

You are a big liar, sowing discord in the 9/11 group by your relentless hatred and lies. As shown by your relentless posts as recorded here:


Submitted by Dem Bruce Lee Styles on Sat, 12/09/2006

"...There is no need for "pods/missiles" "no-planes/tv fakery", that stuff is all nonsensical sensationalist bullshit designed, along with "space beams" and "mini nukes", to discredit 9/11 truth..."

Submitted by bruce1337 on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...No, Neutron rays destroyed the WTC!
No, Godzilla in thermoptic camouflage destroyed the WTC!..."

Submitted by YT on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...You are a fucking piece of shit DISINFO SPAMMER.
You and your sickening cohorts should be banned from this site..."

Submitted by Danse on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...The rotten fruits of Haupt, Wood, Reynolds and Fetzer..."

Submitted by Jon Gold on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...Cynthia McKinney's Last Stand..."

Submitted by Christopher Briggs on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...I am saddened by the internal wrangling of the 911 Truth Movement. It is a shame.
We should be focussing on what we agree upon:
that we refuse to accept the official theory, and demand a new genuinely independent inquiry.
Furthermore, I have been highly sceptical to the claims of "space weapons", and think that Dr Jones' work

so far explains the collapse of the towers far better..."

Submitted by videohoax on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...i dont mind somebody wanting to do serious research on such a wild theory, however i think by focusing on it and publically talking about such issues does nothing BUT harm the credibility of the truth movement...."

Submitted by imgstacke on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Do you have anyone on that doesn't have bizarre whacked out theories?..."

Submitted by 911 DamBuster (not verified) on Fri, 12/08/2006:
"...Good luck to Professor Jones and all the true patriots and justice seekers..."

Submitted by YT on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...The Little Disinfo Gang That Couldn't is so fucking busted.
Their complete stupidity and incompetence is a gift to the truth...."

Submitted by NJcpaTOM on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Dr. Jones has once again proven
that he is a thinker and scientist and I am in full support of his new project.

Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Jim, why are you concerned about John Albanese editing the interview in ways that distort your position, but you don't give a SHIT about the media, OUR ENEMY'S GREATEST TOOL AGAINST US, doing the same thing with your "energy beam" nonsense?..."

Submitted by John Albanese on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...[Killtown] can you tell us WHY you go on and on and on and on and on about holograms on your website? i can use the answer for my film. in fact - can i interview you in person?..."

Submitted by YT on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...Fetzer you are a backstabbing fraud and a traitor...
...You are a foul disgrace to humanity.
I hope I never see your abominable visage in person.
I will spit in your face..."

Submitted by FFlagNews (not verified) on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...I am also one of the most popular radio hosts because I have a low tolerance for stawman theories..."

Submitted by Dem Bruce Lee Styles on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Fetzer, Wood and Reynolds shovelling disinfo dirt..."

Submitted by Falcon (not verified) on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Agent Peggy Carter Is it just me or does she resemble a young Dick Cheney in a wig?..."

Submitted by Dem Bruce Lee Styles on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...Watching you shills and disinfo morons attempting to vote down everything is hilarious..."

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 12/08/2006
"...This business about no-planes is absolutely ridiculous. You've seen the videos, you've HEARD the engines roaring. What did they put on the hologram missiles that went into the towers, big sound speakers too? As for the laser stuff, leave it for another day! The goal is to turn public opinion with credible theories and information..."

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...The current thermite-vs.-beam-weapons debate is unfortunate because it only serves to highlight the disunity within the 9/11 Truth movement..."

Looks like you've returned to your posting duties

at the exact same time as CB_Brooklyn - yet again!

Funny how you ALWAYS post together, isn't it? 

You're a nutter. :)

Yea, I'm CB_Brooklyn.

Though we write and research in a completely different style.

You really think the "No-Planers" are out to get you...

Be careful, there could be one lurking behind your window.


No, clown

I didn't say you were CB_Brooklyn, I said you always start your posting chores at exactly the same time.

What would that prove?

What is the implication? We live together? Even if we did, (and just to be clear I do not know who he or she is), posting at the same time proves what?

I fail to see the sinister implications.

Gee, I don't know

I just think it's interesting.

YT, Get a grip.

That is so lame that no matter what I try to write back also get dragged down into your absurd stupidity.

What were you doing this evening? Waiting around and watching the clock to see when CB_Brooklyn and Peggy Carter returned?

We both live in NY.

In case you don't realize, bars and restaurants here are open late. People go out. Maybe some come home around the same time?

Not sure why ya'll are so jonesing for a pic of CB_Brooklyn? So you can send hate=rays at him or her? Is he like "Snowball" in Animal Farm.

Or is that Fetzer? CB can be Snowball? And Fetzer can be Emmanuel Goldstein?

Be sure you get your 2-minutes of hate in, as scheduled.


I can tell my friends a spacebeamer told me to get a grip w0000t

Show "It's all over your head." by Peggy Carter

How accurate could I possibly believe you to be?

I mean...have you been timing us for awhile or what?

I haven't posted much this week, compared to earlier. Are you logging me? And CB both.

Oh yea, I get it. You can't be bothered to show any evidence for your wild conjectures.

It's "truthiness" you know. The kind of truth that is what you feel in your gut.

You're right, I can't be bothered

I'm not out to prove anything - we're not in court yet. :)

So Fetzer is stoking discord?

The people who are flipping-out over research that they don't like and don't want to surface blame the others for the discord they themselves create with their relentless attacks.


"Everybody has witnessed" ? "Relentless attacks?"

If , as you say, "everybody has witnessed"..... I don't have very much faith in the "everybody" you invoke.

(Deja vu?)

Check out a list of my posts. Find one where I attack Steven Jones, please.

I'm curious, cause I don't believe I did it. It's not my style. Ever.

In fact I have a little warm spot in my heart for Jones. Which may make me a sucker, but whatever. That doesn't mean I've ever believed his testing of thermite (thermate either) to be the best evidence for the destruction of the Towers by means other than airplane fuel (Kerosene). Ever.

If you can't produce even one example of my "relentless attack" I will know you to be a blatant bullshitter and smear artist like Albanesse - who claims via his vicious smear and outright lie about me that I spread anti-semitic material around St. Mark's Church. And wouldn't retract it when I informed him he was guilty of libel.

If there weren't absolutely loads of people (and I not speaking of your kind of, what I believe to be, fictious "everybody") who absolutely know this to be total rubbish, Albanese would be dangerous. He's obviously disinfo.

He never answered me when I accused him of libel, but just let his absolute bullshit accusation stand.

Speaking of bullshit and libel

you might want to stop speaking for Luke - implying that he agrees with you on anything at all, trying to stir up shit between Albanese and him, whatever. He knows what you're up to.

You're out of your mind - deluded.

Can't stop lying?

I guess it's *you* (who obviously live in your own extreme fantasy world) who believes I'm the one who caused the intense hatred Luke feels for Albanese? One more point for your credibility?

And it's you who speak for Luke! :
"He knows what you're up to."

And exactly what is that?

You couldn't even prove, after you accused me of it, that I "relentlessly attacked" Steven Jones. What is it now? I'm working for the Feds? I post in concordance with CB_Brooklyn?

I'll ask Luke today what he thinks of your sorry ass.

As far as Albanese, I didn't need to stir anything up between them. Luke hated him before I even brought up the name. And when I did, he started cursing him out. He really doesn't like him.

I'll find out why that is too. But it's certainly no surprise.

When you talk to him

make sure you let him know where that nasty slander about him being a drug smuggler comes from.

By the way, aren't you also the author

of a hit piece on someone who helps run this site?

I thought it was wrong to take the site from Fetzer

I wrote about Floum's owning, or at least controlling, the Scholar's website address and satirized his email where he invoked God and Blessings, calling him "Pope Floum".

I thought it was disingenuous to invoke God for support to one's own side in a political, scientific disagreement.

I thought it was wrong, and maybe even suspicious, to take the site from Fetzer, when Fetzer was the one who was open to rational further questioning of the events which others wanted supresssed, and when he had been the actual founder of the group.

I'm glad now that doesn't appear to be happening.

I grateful that I haven't been banned from here, as you would so much desire, for that. And I notice and give credit to the fact that the moderator(s) of this site allow criticism of themselves and posting of opinions probably different from their own.

Peggy Carter with bad information? Imagine that!

So yeah, you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about but decided to write a hit piece anyway, which was then spammed heavily on this site by your associates.


Is that more libel and lies too?
In what way was I wrong?

Or can't you bothered to show any evidence to back up this bogus accusation either?

How is it I didn't know what I was talking about?!

Can't be bothered to prove it or back up your accusations?

You're a total liar and bullshit artist. Is that how you like to represent those you protect? You're so pathetic, you discredit those you would like to defend by your ignorant thuggishness.

You speak as though you were someone in a criminal gang:
Submitted by YT on Sat, 12/09/2006
"...Fetzer you are a backstabbing fraud and a traitor...
...You are a foul disgrace to humanity.
I hope I never see your abominable visage in person.
I will spit in your face..."

Is that your deal?

Hmm no I'm not in a criminal gang

Are you?

You can repost my message to that sleazebag Fetzer as many times as you'd like - I stand by my words.

Well you outdo me with the poison pen

And so, I find it amazing that you would baselessly accuse me of "relentless attack."

I guess that's how Propaganda artists work.

Your style is blatantly thuggish

So yea, that's why you remind me of a criminal strongarm type.

All nasty force. No light.

Straight thuggin'

But seriously, you remind me of a criminal too.


No kidding. Talk about redundancy.

I know. That hasn't gone over my head.

It's because your warped and ignorant.

Luke is still under attack by the disinfo clowns

I just got this message from Luke:

someone came out to my event last night with a big sign infront of the entrance stating:

"Luke Rudkowski is a drug smuggler, eminem wanna be NAZI"


What a nasty thing for someone to do. But you know, those accusations are familiar to me because I read them in a piece of trash written by Nico Haupt, an associate of Peggy Carter's.




Liar Again.

You're really "on" something.

You're accusing me of calling Luke an "Eminem Wannabee?" As if that's even a criticism? Or being friends with someone who has?

I *heard* the "accusation" for the first time last night. So you must keep up better on Nico's writings than I do. But considering your past performances in the truth and accuracy dept. I will have to give Nico the benefit of the doubt re: your attribution of the origin of the phrase to him.

And I asked the guy, "Is that the best you can do?" "EmInem Wannabee?" ( to spell it out....you mean there's nothing stonger than *that* to speak against Luke? I guess he's a pretty good kid!)

It's not even a criticism. It's a joke. It's like telling people I look like Cheney with a wig. But less, even ;) It means nothing. The sign was a sick joke.

And it was brought by a Raelian, who never called Luke a drug smuggler.

As you can see for yourself. If you can read:

Unfortunately I didn't get a great pic of the bloke who brought it, since it was too dark:

The pic doesn't even really look like him.

Here's a link to Nico's report about last night, if you can bear the bad spelling and poor english:

ny911truth BizarroGate: Pressure on Urantia-Jamieson increased with NYPD Intel Unit showing up and Protest by ex-Raelian

Maybe someone can find Nico's article

with the exact same accusations in it.

I'm at work. 


Reposting these since Peggy Carter's posts are likely to end up hidden.

The text on the sign is a direct lift from the writing of Nico Haupt.

Nother Lie

God, it's hard to keep up here.

You're just not tuned to the subtleties of Nico's writing.

But I can understand for someone not paying attention it could look similar.

Nother Lie

God, it's hard to keep up here.

You're just not tuned to the subtleties of Nico's writing.

But I can understand, for someone not paying attention, it could look similar.

Blog it?

Maybe you should ask him if he'd mind if you wrote a blog about it. I'm not sure if everyone here realizes the personal attacks these guys engineer (and more importantly, real-life personal attacks.)

Our primary goal in the 9/11

Our primary goal in the 9/11 Truth movement is education. Putting a sign up that reads USA DID 9/11 is ignorant and insulting and the activist in the black hoody handed the situation perfectly.

I also understand the guy who was calling people communists. You MUST put yourself in the position of the people who don't know. I joined this movement about two months ago, but three months ago I would have laughed at some of the signs in the video. Passing out DVDs is very, very good. Putting up signs without putting yourself in the shoes of those who don't know is a recipe for failure. We must be intelligent, strategic, and thoughtful in this movement if we wish to have the success we so desperately need.

Los Alamos Weapons Developers ... retiring to 9/11 "truth"

HeavyWaterGate: Consultant of Army Future Weaponry Committee linked directly to Tesla Science!

Steven "Los Alamos" Jones/HeavyWaterGate: Cold Fusion Patent Holder
linked to U.S. Army Future Weaponry Committee


Consultant of Army Future Weaponry Committee linked directly to
Tesla Science, but all links are DOWN!!


NORMAN M. HALLER Technical Consultant
works under
ROBERT A. FUHRMAN, chair, Lockheed Corporation (retired), Pebble
Beach, California

part of Air Force Hypersonic Technology Program

Review and Evaluation of the Air Force Hypersonic Technology Program
Publication Year:1998


links down, also at

Robert A. Fuhrman, (BSE AA '45) was a prominent leader at Lockheed,
holding a number of key positions before retiring as vice chair and
chief operating officer. Fuhrman, a member of the National Academy of
Engineering, also sat on the President's National Security
Telecommunications Advisory Committee and the Defense Science Board.

Kenneth J. Krieg
Under Secretary of Defense

Kenneth J. Krieg is the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition,
Technology and Logistics. The Senate confirmed him to this position in
June 2005...

...He joined the Department of Defense in July 2001 (!) to serve as
the Executive Secretary of the Senior Executive Council (SEC). ...
...Before moving to industry, Mr. Krieg worked in a number of defense
and foreign policy assignments in Washington, DC, including positions
at the White House, on the National Security Council Staff, and in
Office of the Secretary of Defense.