"On September 19, 2006, I filed a lawsuit in Federal District Court over a FOIA request regarding Flight 93 ... The speculation regarding Flight 93 and whether it landed at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport or was shot down by our military over Shanksville, Pennsylvania continues. One web site makes an allegation that a mystery plane landed after Delta Flight 1989 at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on 911. This web site gives a time line of planes landing and passenger interviews and makes the statement: "Flight X landed at 10:45, and at 11:15 the 200 passengers were taken into the evacuated NASA Center." This site maintains this is not Delta, but an unknown Flight...

"Did United Flight 93 land at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on September 11, 2001? That was the focus of my Freedom of Information Act request which was ignored for ten months until I filed the lawsuit. On October 2, 2006 while I was out of the state, a Mr. Brad Preamble, an attorney representing the FAA, called me because his agency had been served. On October 3, 2006, I returned his call; it turned into a conference call with a woman named Melanie who handles the FOIAs and a woman named Dottie. Preamble did most of the talking with contributions by Melanie. I was told that the FAA and the DOT had no "responsive documents" for my FOIA. Preamble explained that the Department of Justice had commandeered more than a million pieces of information or documentation relating to 911, and it was unlikely, even if there was anything, that DOJ would probably not release it...


Thanks, E.J.

If it's been 'classified' they lied.

Unbelievable. They have a paper thin story and blood on their hands. It's a wonder the US Citizens don't lynch them all! :) Traitors!!!

Dude - you are so....

... lost.

You cannot see the large picture can you?

This is not about 9/11 - it is how the world has been run for hundreds of years.

Do you know what the term "Spotty Lincoln" means? Maybe you just look into it.

What about every "war" we have been in other than the first one.

Do you study history?

Do you understand the illegal Federal Reserve?

Do you understand the big picture?

9/11 is just a small part of all of the NWO.

But, it is the smoking gun....

Study your history my poor friend.

so the NWO is real and not

so the NWO is real and not stuff Alex Jones says to raise a cult following? i admit it's a creepy line when Bush41 announces the start of a new world order. Bush41 creeps the hell out of me anyway. That guy has so many secrets. So dark...

If Bush 41 gives you the

If Bush 41 gives you the creeps now, watch this Discovery Channel Documentary and be prepared to be truly disgusted.


Great Documentary. This stuff gets sicker and sicker the deeper you dig. I hope we have more good people than bad in this country and that we can eventually get all of this stuff out into the light. Good job on the link regardless. Keep it up. Peace.

Beyond revolting

Just finished the documentry at this link, greenback.

Thing is, there've been rumours of this rubbish for years but I could never get a solid source. So it went into my mental "maybe, we'll see" file.

Well, now there's no surprise the FBI has been so bloody useless re: 911. If child rape can't light a fire under their arses, what's the death of 3,000 people?

Thanks for the link, as depressing as it is. Makes me want to shoot Larry King's kneecaps out--then shoot a little higher...

Impeachment. Acountability. A better world.

Physics and 9/11 truth

Thursday, November 30, 2006
Physics and 9/11 truth

``9/11 Truth Movement\'\' is mostly a sham; excellent antidote at Counterpunch

A sad event featuring 9/11 conspiracy theory sponsored by kpfa and broadcast by C-SPAN 2 over Thanksgiving weekend--and I normally admire both Pacifica and Ray McGovern; David Ray Griffin should be ashamed of his misuse of evidence.

I spend a good bit of time each week teaching introductory physics. Every semester--in the impulse and momentum chapter--I pay special attention to dynamic forces generated by impacts of moving bodies. These are the forces that break things when they fall, contrasted with static conditions where the same objects happily remain intact under the reletively mellow forces due to their own weights. The example I always bring up is how the collapse of the WTC twin towers in New York on 9/11/2001 happened because of the enormous dynamic forces generated once the upper sections began to fall.

Partly I bring up the WTC collapse to counter a load of nonsense on this topic that lives mainly on the Internet, and sometimes on C-SPAN. On many facets of 9/11, a conspiracy industry has emerged to promulgate alternative explanations, calling itself by the misnomer ``9/11 Truth Movement\'\'. It is led by a strange cast of characters also known by the misnomer ``Scholars for 9/11 truth\'\'.

Of the voluminous silliness promulgated by these people, perhaps their lowest appeal to ignorance is their notion that the airplane impacts and subsequent structural weakening did not initiate collapse and bring down the towers. Rather, explosives planted in a government conspiracy did it.

The evidence? None really. There exists no document, no whistle-blower, no witness who has come forward from a diabolical conspiracy that must have involved hundreds of workers to pull off. Oh yes, they have a physicist from BYU, Steve Jones, who has made some unconvincing claims about chemicals that were in the wreckage that suggest explosives were used. But they really go astray when they claim that it is impossible that the towers fell without the help of explosives. Why? Because they fell at ``close to the free-fall time in a vacuum\'\'. Without explosives ``undamaged floors below the impact zone would have offered resistance that is thousands of times greater than air.\'\' That\'s the ``proof\'\' offered.

Now the article at that last link (supplied by Scholars for 9/11 Truth) totally misstates the physics involved in the collapse. Air resistance produces a continuous upward force upon a falling object that increases with velocity until it balances the gravitational force. This is not analogous to what happened during the collapse of the twin towers.

A Tuesday article in Counterpunch by physicist Manuel Garcia supplies the facts to counter this asinine rubbish in a slightly technical but totally coherent explanation of the fall times of the towers. It includes discussion of the disastrous effect of dynamic loading on the structures resulting from rapid momentum changes and stress waves--essential discussion completely left out of ignorant conspiracy literature.

Certainly there are mysteries about 9/11. The relationship of US intelligence and the shadowy networks that are referred to as ``al-Qā`ida\'\' deserve much more investigation. I would like to be able to appreciate the writing of some of the ``9/11 Scholars\'\' on these issues. But their embrace of asinine silliness and misuse of physics really taints their work.

I support Alexander Cockburn, Matt Taibbi, Noam Chomsky, and Matt Rothschild in their efforts to expose the intellectual bankruptcy of the ``9/11 Truth Movement\'\'. This bankruptcy is no more well illustrated than in the rabid accusations flung by conspiracy adherents when faced with skepticism about their wild, unsupportable claims. They scream incoherently about ``left gatekeepers\'\' surpressing their version of the truth.

Like Chomsky has written, ``One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be.\'\' It\'s time to focus our attention away from conspiracy mongering and towards building a movement to stop the continuing crimes of state that are costing the lives of tens of thousands of people every week.

Bush 41 was once involved in

Bush 41 was once involved in 2 out of 3 high profile political assassinations! that would be funny if it wasnt likely true......

"She explained that these

"She explained that these flight strips are destroyed after 15 days, but somehow she had one lone survivor. ... I asked if I could have a copy of this one surviving flight strip and was told they would try. "

Set-up city; look for ye olde wild goose in future. Whatever they give Devvy, expect dis-information.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

That is affirmative.

That is affirmative.

Flight 93 is being neglected

The Flight 93 crash site - lie is almost as big a smoking gun as is WTC7. All that 9/11 truth needs is to proof that One of the handful of events (the building collapses & 'passenger' planes) was a staged event, then the rest of the house of cards comes down automatically.

I think the non-crash of Flight 93 is tied or

even higher than WTC 7 being pulled as an obvious conspiracy. I had a couple of truthers say Flight 93 was "very low on the totem pole."

 It's obvious no 757 crashed there with the lack of fire damage to the grass outside the crater and I showed how the burnt forest at an odd trajectory got that way:

Faked Shanksville crater and the burnt forest section


Show "You knuckleheads have been" by Anonymous (not verified)

* Troll Alert *

* Troll Alert *

Show "I'm not a troll...I'm just" by Anonymous (not verified)
Show "I rest my case. New 9/11" by Anonymous (not verified)

Poor you.

You're not a troll, you are just reminding everyone of how stupid people can be, that's all.

we have absence of evidence

What we do have, is the absence of evidence for the official story. No independent court would buy the story of paper passports surviving plane crashes, coincidencially those of the hijackers, building collapses by fire (imagine WTC7 being shown by defense lawyers in the courtroom, a' la' Johnny Cochran, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit"), and also the flight 93 crash site: An independed investigation would ask the government for independent confirmation of their claims, which they don't have, because it was all self-made.

I'd find it ok if the official story would first of all be declared dead, and the true events unknown. An intermediate phase. Then many people would be in big trouble for not caring about what happened, and things would get moving, e.g. Silverstain being visited by the big papers, and frontpages reading "Silverstein in denial".

Flight 93 is not a smoking

Flight 93 is not a smoking gun it is a smoldering empty pit. Can anyone imagine how open and closed the case of 911 would be if we did have a legitimate investigation and prosecution. To use an infamous phrase, it'd be "a slam dunk."

Right on!

While Flight 93 is clearly a smoking gun...

and probably the easiest to prove based on the available physical evidence, the official myth created around it also has the greatest emotional power attached to it. I think this was intentional as the perps knew that this was the most obvious foul-up in their operation.

I think it is more effective and time efficient to get 9/11 newbies leaning your way on WTC 7 and then introduce them to the problems with the official account of Flight 93. Generally speaking, you'll find much less emotional resistance this way.

At this point in the evolution of the Truth movement we've gotten most of the easy converts and have to fine tune our approach to keep the number of new truthers growing.

Well, I need to get back to my signs......

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.

"the official myth created

"the official myth created around it also has the greatest emotional power attached to it."

Thanks in a great part to that bleeding travesty of a movie.

You're right; you can't attack people's 'heros' head on. WTC7 is an excellent start, but there's even less emotional resistance if you start with means, motive and opportunity: ignored warnings, delayed investigation, supressed EPA reports of health hazards at ground zero, yada, yada..

"Bugger this; I want a better world."

Remember that Shanks was a military flight corridor

Apparantley this is one reason they choose Shanks as the site to fake the 93 crash:


(this post is for everybody)

Tarpley make an excellent point regarding how it is most

improbable that any Muslim hijackers flew those planes on 9/11. To quote part of his point on page 188 of "9/11 Synthetic Terror, Made in the USA":

"...The hijackers are supposed to have abruptly wrenched the airliners out of the influence of all navigation aids, beacons, and positioning systems, and flown them by the seat of their pants to hit three demanding targets under conditions of conflict and stress inside the planes...The issue is the transition from instrument flight techniques to visual flight rules and techniques in a context where all the usual instrument aids would have been inoperative"...

I guess another way to say this is that the "hijackers" stormed

the cockpits, mudered the pilots & others with boxcutters, (I assume blood was gushing everywhere), and then they manually spun the jets around and flew-them hundreds of miles off course "cowboy-style" without instruments, no military crafts ever saw them, & they found & hit their targets like darts hitting a bull's-eye!!!

All that by a bunch of misfits who couldn't fly Cessnas?

They were obviously classic patsies!

and they flew directly over

and they flew directly over nearly every military base on the East Coast without their transponders on..... a definite NO NO

At least 3 out of the 4 Flights....

...made major changes of direction over Airports....this is an underinvestigated aspect of 9/11, IMO. Another in the endless list of coincidences. One can't help but think of Operation Northwoods and the substitution of airplanes it talks about.

This shows two of the flights, 11 and 175. 93 "changes direction" near Cleveland's airport.

Not to mention the near collision of 11 & 175 over Stewart Air Base.

I would love to see this more fully explored with better maps and timelines.

And, has anyone ever explained why 77's flight path is partially hypothetical, compared with the other ones?

DO catch up, please

Why is it that 9/11 Deniers are always SO far behind?

How often do you have to be shown that AA 77 hit the Pentagon, bubba?

It\'s not surprising that 9/11 Truthers had such a rotten time in Junior High School.

I encourage everyone to

I encourage everyone to visit the 911 Debunkers Guide at the link above--they actually let you leave comments! Anonymously, even! How long they stay is anyone's guess; I'm anonymous but I sign my name.

So if you have a rock solid argument that can't be dismissed( how did they have the terrorist's DNA on file to make a match, for instance) and you have time, share it with them! ALLOT!!!

Then maybe our anonymous 'friend' won't be tempted to give us dis-info links.

You poor kid

You really ought to consider going back to junior high.

Hey, I'm the spirit of the

Hey, I'm the spirit of the 20th Century--106 bloody years old, you cheeky little bugger!

What are you, a spotty twelve?

*wink*--to all those who get the reference. If not, no big...

"Bugger this; I want a better world."

Show "You poor kid" by Anonymous (not verified)

911 Debunkers Guide

Sorry, I had to report--it's sad. The level of debate is if you believe X about the truth movement I will assume you believe YZ and Q, even if you haven't said so. I spent most of my response pointing out I hadn't said this or that.

If it's a psy-op, it's a bloody clumsy one.

Show "Every thing is a \"psy-op\" to you poor bubbas" by Anonymous (not verified)

So, it was YOU who gave us

So, it was YOU who gave us the link to the 911Debunker's Guide, 'Ernie"?

Someone's soon to regret you did that, sunshine. You might also regret trolling our site with unprovoked insults, attacks and time wasting rubbish.


Here is what i think is the best Pentagon truth site

Even the French weren't fooled but Bush still lays memorial wreaths there and nobody bothered to ask Gates about it at the confirmation hearings.

Look the emperor has no clothes. He is making a laughing stock out of this country while committing mass murder.

He ought to be brought up on charges for lack of sufficient mental ability.

Neither Flight 77 nor 11 was scheduled for 9/11

There are no flights with those numbers on the American Airlines schedules for 9/11.
Flight 11 has been reported as boarding at 2 different gates - they even screwed up the cover story.


not to mention over Pentagon airspace almost a full hour after the first plane was hijacked.
It's a joke.

Yup and..

Interesting how all the automated defense batteries failed to operate when a non-military aircraft violated the airspace... I guess they must have been being cleaned that day...

CCC-Media: Read, Watch, Think - Decide!

Zelikow resigns

Interesting to note that the NYT omitted his 9/11 commission role in describing his background.

Senior Aide to Rice Resigns From Post

WASHINGTON, Nov. 27 — Two months ago, the State Department’s counselor, Philip D. Zelikow, offered an oblique criticism of the administration’s failure to push strongly for an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan in the Middle East.

In a speech to the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Mr. Zelikow, an intellectual known for peppering his statements with historical references, said progress on the Arab-Israeli dispute was a “sine qua non” in order to get moderate Arabs “to cooperate actively with the United States on a lot of other things that we care about.”

A State Department spokesman was quick to distance the department officially from Mr. Zelikow’s remarks, which ruffled the feathers of American Jewish groups and Israeli officials. But the administration may soon be doing what Mr. Zelikow advised, starting a renewed push for a Middle East peace initiative, in part to shore up support in the Arab world for providing help in Iraq.

Great comment about the NYTs

Great comment about the NYTs ommission of Zelikow's 911 Cmmission role. Things like that, and things like a revolution taking shape in Mexico, things like a man burning himself alive in Chicago the other day in protest to the Iraq invasion, the fact that these items do not make it into the mainstream media, yet Paris Hilton's life is front page news just speaks volumes about the undeniable fakeness of mainstream news.


Hey Greenback, or anyone else, where do you suggest I get a good introduction to the concept of Greenbacks and their role in the monetary policy of our country.

I've heard they are good and that Lincoln was possibly assassinated because of the ingenious idea of creating them?

I've also heard that they were fiat money in which had no value and could be used to dupe less sophisticated money handlers?

Let me know the story and where I can get more information from credible sources etc.


try for this infor and more....

For one thing

To all the self proclaimed "debunkers" who yell out "deniers" and "twoofers": Sorry to see your Iraq war isnt going so well there...I know you believe firmly in your "war on terror"...yet "were" the clowns. I love it.

I saw a documentary last night, just about how 9/11 affected everyday people. The coronorer for Sometset country(shanksville) was interviewed and it sounded like they were pulling charred bits of people from way down in that hole. I have no doubt Flight 93 slammed way down in to the earth. That plane coulda been brought down(or heck "shot down") anywhere, and people would be saying the "it doesnt make sense".
All I'll say is the Woodybox/Loose Change posit of the Cleveland scenario, h eck any of the fake plane stuff ...I wont call it disinfo, but I find it on par with people who say 9/11 was just Osama from a cave. It makes no sense.

you are hilarious.

you are hilarious.

Speaking of what doesn't make sense--

Ahem--your post. Satire at its finest or copy desperately in search of an editor?

For fucks sake, preview and edit before you post, sunbeam.

Pockyrot, you lie about the Shankville coroner. He said there

were no bodies, & not even a drop of blood anywhere.

No doubt UA 93 slammed way down into the earth?

Then what happened to it's tail after it apparantely only left a faint impression into the grass?

This whole scene has always

This whole scene has always appeared staged to me?

Do we have any idea who owns this land..... which is now a national monument.

the owner had to get paid for this sacred land

Of course it would

You still don't know that "killtown" was hired by the government to discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement?

The skinny "wing-like" ditch that runs....

....southwest to northeast in the picture was there prior to the "crash"....I have seen pictures of it, prior to the circular crater occurring....has anyone else seen that?

To me, it looks like someone shot a missle at the ground in the middle of the ditch....

Ok, I haven't found the "pre-crash" picture of the ditch....

....but, i did find this....a great slideshow of pics from the post-impact scene....

BTW, this guy's site is a motherlode of great 9/11 video shorts....

America's "War on Terrorism" by Chossudovsky, 2nd Ed.

America's "War on Terrorism" by Michel Chossudovsky, 2005
"Chossudovsky's book presents its readers with a harsh reality: terrorism is a tool used to maintain and expand the growth of corporate capitalism, led by the U.S. dollar and backed by the U.S. military might. His book is one of those 'connect-the-dots' works that should be required reading, especially for media-misled, history-starved Americans." - Kellia Rameres, Online Journal

"Chossudovsky has written an alarming book that ought to serve as a wakeup call for every citizen of the world. In a very straightforward manner, Chossudovsky uncovers the truth behind America's covert intellegence operations, international economic interests, and goals of U.S. foreign policy." -Antony LaFratta, Chapters-Indigo

direct download:

has anyone else noticed how

has anyone else noticed how rough the media has been with former president Jimmy Carter in the past few days? he put out a book titled-"Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid", and of course the media has been trying to get the guy to basically say hes sorry for speaking the truth about Israel and stating some obvious facts. im not big fan of any recent president, but at least Jimmy Carter is making some sense and saying what needs to be said. Carter stressed how the Israel lobby has too much sway over the congress(my jaw hit the floor when i heard a former president state this obvious fact), he points out that the bombing of Lebanon was criminal, that the american people have a skewed vision of Israel and dont get a full picture, meaning we only get pro-Israel points of view here etc. all he did was speak the obvious truth and hes been getting a bunch of shit on every appearance hes made. he even got into it with Judy Woodruff a bit on PBS-"you didnt include the fact that Israel has thousands of Palistinians in jail,women and children included while asking the question about the 1 Israeli soldier Hamas has". take a look at this article with a bunch of "democrat" traitors running as fast as they can away from Carters views:

Interesting how they make

Interesting how they make much of him being the only president to succesfully work with arabs and Israelis, but don't want to draw the obvious conclusion that he might know what he's talking about.

Fact is most westerners know sod all about the modern state of Israel. I admit I don't know as much as I could. But it's not a western democracy as any of us understand it. There is an obvious Israeli ruling class and not only do they not like Arab Palestinians, they don't even like-- this surprised me-- Arab Jews.

The anti-semitism of the Israeli ruling class is ironic in so many mind-boggling ways it'll drive you mad. And it's almost impossible to discuss online without turning into a flame war.

Hope you wore your asbestos knickers, everyone. And cheers, Chris, for the new addition to my reading list.

"Bugger this; I want a better world."

no problem, i might have to

no problem, i might have to read it myself. i never thought i would be interested in a book by a former president.

A great quote from a wise

A great quote from a wise philosopher...

"You must show the unlearned man the truth, and you will see that he will follow.
But so long as you do not show it him, you should not mock his inability to learn,
but rather feel your own incapacity to teach."


We all must stretch ourselves to be wiser teachers as we forge ahead.

Best of luck my friends.

Just today I was researching various legislation

that was pushed through around 9/11. I was amazed that these new laws could even be drafted, let alone passed through both the House & Senate of the 107th Congress. I think HR 2926 was made law on 9/22/01.

I had printed out so many pages at work that they all wouldn't fit in my briefcase. BTW I am a forensic accountant who discovered the bulls--- late due to a case I was involved in that was against a large national bank. That lengthy case was finally settled in the fall of 2005.

Anyway, back to United 93. One of the pieces of legislation established an "Air Transportation Stabilization Board" (ATSB) that is under the US Department of the Treasury.
The purpose of the fund is to guaranty loans and "compensate air carries for losses incurred as a result of the terrorist attacks on the United States that occurred on September 11, 2001."

The "Press Room" of the website contains a December 4, 2002 announcement that the ATSB rejected a proposal submitted by United Airlines, Inc. According to the announcement it was rejected because "the plan is based on unreasonably optimistic revenue projections".

I had to leave the office and since I was going to write up my findings anyway I brought only a few docs. The related United Airlines request was for a $1.8 billion federal guarantee on a $2 billion loan. I have just scratched the surface at this site.

There is another sheet that summarizes "Recent Activity".
I was hoping the this list would contain the insurance claims that I have been looking for but the list that goes back to 2001 appears to be "applications" for loan guarantees.

The best part is that American Airlines does not appear on the list at all and the only United Airlines "application" was received on June 24,2002.

However, the list contains the names of other smaller companies which will require a great deal of time to dig into. Such as Aloha Airlines, Inc; America West Airlines; Vanguard Airlines; Frontier Flying Service, Inc; Evergreen International Airlines, Spirit Airlines; US Airways, Inc.; MEDjet International, Inc.; Ozark Airlines, Inc dba Great Plains Airlines; World Airways, Inc.; National Airlines, Inc.; American Trans Air, Inc. and Gemini Air Cargo.

If the purpose of the bill was as stated above each of the above companies should be asked questions about how they were damaged by 9/11.

Apparently I still have a great deal of work to do.
If anybody knows anything about any of the above companies I will be grateful for any information. I wonder if any of them are getting paid for their involvement or assistance flying out the bin Laden family.

On July 22, 2005 the ATSB approved the merger between US Airways and America West Airlines Inc.

I live in Maywood, New Jersey. My sister lives in Brick, NJ. After I convinced myself that 9/11 was phony I mentioned Flight 93 and the lack of anything at the alleged "crash site" to my sister. She firmly told me that Flight 93 crashed because she and her daughter had a friend who was on that plane and the went to the funeral.

I prepared a set of articles stories, cell phone tests, pictures of the crash site, etc together and gave that stack about 1" thick together with a couple of DVDs to watch. She is know questioning the crash and asked about where the passengers were. I told her that they got off the plane when it landed in the Cleveland Airport and to the best of my knowledge are missing.
I didn't say that they died the government did.

I'm sorry that I didn't get any further information yet. I do have to work for a living and only get to do this in my free time at the office or here at home.

I will gladly discuss this with you further but I can't guaranty that a new client won't be assigned to me tomorrow and the holidays are here followed by the tax season.
Good Luck


I don't have an answer to your question, Tom.

Perhaps one of these guys can help you...

Rumpl4skn or Killtown.

I took your advice and it is there also

BTW I have also posted it at the;
It's almost 11:30 pm here. I have a court date tomorrow regarding an Estate matter and I haven't started to be sure I have everything ready.

Thanks for the Tip


Well Flight 93 has always been a tough bird to fly (no pun intended). I remember the initial footage, on the ground and aerial reports, and it just immediately shouted of blatent mis-information. Every1 has seen the effects of a plane crash on so many other reports and even 1s which crashed into mountain sides at normal speed leave a mass of reckage, I don't remember seeing any of 93.

The amazing thing is that they believe, like with the Pentagon, they can keep selling these lame ducks. I guess they are hoping 90% of the population are so busy watching trash and working 3 jobs to repay ever increasing credit card bills...

CCC-Media - Watch, Read Think, Decide!

Jimmy Carter

I havn't read his book, but I saw him on the Jim Lehrer news hour tonite...what a truly heroic man. I have more respect for him than ever. It's so rare to see integrity in politics or the media these days. And yeah, then over on CNN headline news they're bashing him for the old Iran- hostage thing, so pathetic. As far as the Shankville crash site, I seem to remember that the local coroner was marveling over the fact that there was NO BLOOD. And the locals were confused because they had got there before any "officials" and there was NO PLANE at the "plane crash" site. And a 125 ft wide ,70 ft (or so ) long plane had buried itself underneath a hole that was probably less than 20 ft wide and 10 ft deep. The Shanksville site is one of the weirdest aspects of 911. And as with all 4 planes that day, no matching change-part serial numbers,not one photo of any plane part which positively identifies it as a Boeing passenger plane.

jimmy is a tri-lat

it's a waste of time to hang on his words.

hes also an ex-president who

hes also an ex-president who is speaking honestly about Israel, its lobby, and the crimes of its military. thats a good thing no matter how you look at it. nobody is hanging on his words, but to give credit where it is due is only natural. Carter deserves credit for using his name to speak honestly about Israel. i dont need to remind you how much that is lacking in this country and in our media. its not easy to go out into the MSM and tell it like it is, especially about Israel. trilateral or not, its good to hear Carter shed some light on the Israel problem.

Has anyone done an academic study of Flight 93?

I have Flight 93 Revealed by Rowland Morgan, but has anyone actually done a scholarly study of UA 93?

I spoke with Jim Hoffman in Berkeley a few weeks ago and he couldn't think of one on UA93.

Does anyone know any Truthers in PA that might want to take this on or assist someone from out-of-state that does?

I'm also looking to make contact with a Truther south of San Francisco on the peninsula (San Mateo County) to help with freeway blogging in that area.

BTW, I have the Chossudovsky book and it's a great addition to any library.

Keep up the good work, brothers and sisters. We are winning.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.

Another investigation.

Here is some online stuff, Killtown and Rumpl4skn's analysis of the Flight 93 "plume" shuck and jive;

So, Morgan's book is not well-documented, is that the problem? Does he speculate too much or what?

Rumpl4skn and Terrorcell are from PA

So is Victor Thorne.

Email me ( if you want their emails.

I got minus points for answering who lives is PA???


This points system is a joke and a form of censorship.

Animation of a 767 impacting a rigid wall

Imagine a 757 impacting "soft dirt".

Why did I get minus points for this comment???

Obviously blogger is censoring.

Sorry, killtown, it wasn't

Sorry, killtown, it wasn't me, but I'll guess why: It looks like you're injecting one of the no plane theories, and many think no plane theories are a liability to the truth movement.

Honestly, that is true; they are a liablity, and even if true, unnessecary. There is nothing in the no plane theory that that cannot be explained with stronger theories.

You've done a lot of good work; I've used some of it to hammer trolls with. AND I do think there is something odd about the footage of the plane melting into the towers--I always did BEFORE I heard of no-planes. But I think video doctoring can explain that, perhaps to mask some inconsitancies or even evidence of say planted explosions that made it easier than it should have been for the plane to breach the wall.

Personally, on this aspect I'm undecided. But, without clarification, I think that's why you've been rated down.

Should clarify no-plane would apply to WTC1&2. Now I've thought about it, considering the topic, you must be refering to 93(doh-wake up, Jenny!). In which case I guess I do understand your confusion: even I doubt a jumbo jet hit the ground; I'm guessing buried explosives. Still, a clarifiction from you will help.

[If this post looks different, you are NOT going crazy. I've edited it twice because in my bleary state I kept getting the wrong event. Going to bed NOW-promise!!]

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

lay off that Wild Turkey!

lay off that Wild Turkey! haha, just kidding.