The Hamburger Report

Here is a report from "Randy" regarding the Ronald Hamburger presentation last Sunday...

I was waiting for a real techie to write this report, but it falls to me. I did not record the talk or take notes, but I'll try to sum things up. (I did see someone recording this, and maybe it will turn up, or maybe it will be available from CFI West.) I got there early with my sign, but I decided to leave it in the truck and pick up my ticket and check the place out. I ran into Zan right away, and he said "There's more of us here than there are of them". We decided to wait until people were leaving to hand out flyers for our event on Dec. 8. This Center for Inquiry West in the Steve Allen Theatre seems to be like a skeptics society or something. I think the place may have seated around 150 or so. Full house. SRO. There were maybe eight of us from and clearly alot of other people who did not buy the official line. There appeared to be a fair number of tow-the-liners too. The guy who introduced Ronald Hamburger appeared to have questions of his own and said that it is their mission to look at all sides of an issue. (Coming up, they will have a talk about whether the story of Jesus preceeded the birth of Jesus) The tone was set, so we all gave the speaker our respectful attention. He said he was glad to be here. Or at least he was for now. He made a point of telling us that he does not work for the government. Yeah right.

He had slides and some video, and there were times when members of the audience couldn't keep from bursting forth with a question. When he showed a clip where the top of one tower starts to tilt, Chris said "We have a question about that." He said he would answer questions at the end. He was interrupted a few more times like that and gave some quick yes/no answers. I think most of us wanted him to finish his talk so there would be more time for questions.

Alot of it was pretty technical and dry, and I won't be able to relate that too well. And alot that we have all heard before. I think I'm versed just well enough on the technical issues that, combined with my gut feeling, I can usually tell in which direction the truth lies. A couple of the main points that he got grilled on at the end revolved around how severely the core columns were damaged. The biggest laugh was when he said he didn't even remember how many columns there were, and the audience shouted 47! Also, Tony asked about the fires and made it quite clear that he did not believe there were enough combustibles, such as carpet and furniture for the fires to be hot enough and long lasting enough to support his findings.

Andrea asked if it was a pancake, why didn't it look like a stack of pancakes. I think a couple times he used the stock answer that the WTC towers were unlike any other buildings. He touched on Bldg. 7 and said that uncontrolled fires had burned all day and that a couple core columns were severely damaged and then gave a detailed analyses, and I thought that was all pretty lame. He was asked when that report was coming out and he said that it was delayed when the report on the towers took longer than expected. He was asked the question that someone pointed out above, having to do with if the possibility of controlled demolition had been considered, would the investigation have proceeded differently. He didn't have a good answer for that, and I think he may have been starting to feel the heat, and the host had said only two more questions, and that was that.

I don't think he changed many minds, if any, on either side. As we left, someone had arrived with a sign who I don't think had been inside, and we handed out fliers for the screening at UCLA next Friday with a Q & A w/ Ken Jenkins. Check out the events calendar for Dec. 8.

Show "In other words" by Anonymous (not verified)

"He touched on Bldg. 7 and said that uncontrolled fires....

......had burned all day and that a couple core columns were severely damaged..."

Oh, well, that explains it, of course, how obvious...why didn't we realize that before?...I feel like such an idiot....guess I can go home now....of course, fire brought down 7 (for the first time in history)....that's the ticket...

....just how many hours is "all day", anyway?.....

They think we're stupid.

Mr. Hamburger:

Set any skyscraper in New York on fire for TWO whole days and lets see if it collapses.
From now on, instead of spending weeks rigging up old casinos in Vegas, they should just set a few fires on random floors and just set charges on one side of the building. Mr. Hamburger knows that it will implode onto its footprint in under 10 seconds.
Mr. Hamburger, will you finance my project? Think of how we can change the demolition industry!

Excellent response

I'm going to use that one. Yeah, the demolition industry has a whole new approach, just bring a pack of matches to bring down a skyscraper, no planning needed, and rest assure it will come down directly in its own footprint. Guarenteed, considering the perfect record of three collapses.

You have to make sure

only to rig two of the three buildings you want demolished though, because the natural result of this method is always N+1 buildings destroyed...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



haha but of course!

Poor Laughable Hamburgler.

Facts & reality says your full of s*it, Hamburgler.

You can't remember how many core columns were in WTC 1 & 2? Hmm, Maybe the omission commision had the same problem, that's why they just denied their existence all together.

How does it feel to be a Traitor, Hamburgler?

Show "Too bad for you" by Anonymous (not verified)

And, don't forget...

...gravity explains the huge pyroclastic dust flows and massive amounts of microscopic particles....


Show "See this for your education" by Anonymous (not verified)

And you're SO, SO Dumb...

Not to grasp ALL the evidences that have been presented to you on this site for several days now. You're really too dumb to be real.

Show "You have to hide the real truth" by Anonymous (not verified)

Too bad for me...

Maybe then you can explain why both cores remained standing until the outer walls had collapsed completely?

In any case, suggesting someone is stupid for not 'realizing' that lightweight horizontal floor trusses played a role in supporting massive vertical box coluns is absurd. Even if this is the case, it is COMPLETELY unproven speculation. Of course, I think the fact that they built the cores first, adding floor tursses later, pretty much disproves your silly little idea.

You guys are SO, So stupid...

You're Stretching Shill.

"That the 47 columns are hardly relevant."

They were relevent enough for the omission commision to omit.

"the welded connections of those floor trusses to the outer walls and the core columns failed, much less admitting what 120,000 tons and 40,000 tons of mass of falling upper stories of each tower does when it hits those connections"

The WTC towers turned to dust from the top down, either you're blind or insane.


Hey...Mr Anon! Yeah, you, the guy who has a backslash before every apostrophe! The same guy posting here for WEEKS (at least) every single day and you have yet to register! Yeah, you!
They built the core columns first, buddy. Then added the trusses.
So how would the columns be standing without their support?!
Fill us dumbos in with your brilliance.

Hamburger report

anon. you're not helping your cause by calling people stoopid nor are you offering anything constuctive or heplful. I'm doing every thing I can to remain open-minded and objective on this issue, and I'm still looking for an answer that makes sense explaining the collapse of building 7. I don't know if you believe your own rhetoric or are actually "debunking" truth seekers but if you saw this collapse video without knowing it happened on 9/11/01 you would have to conclude, like most viewers, that it was a controlled demolition.


Damn! I'm just aching to know how much $$$$$$ he sold out his country and his soul for...


stinking traitor. Who does he thinh he's fooling with that shit?

Maybe that's why these

Maybe that's why these traitor creeps are not leaving a calling card. They're afraid after the coming investigation they will be considered traitors.

The Hamburger Report

XL serving of lies included. Ketchup with the latest sanctioned talking points. Coke assists natural digestion.

But the funniest thing ...

I almost forgot, was when the sign started slipping off the podium that said CFI West. First one corner, then it slipped a little more, and people started snickering. Then one guy shouted "It's a conspiracy!" And we tried to tell Hamburger what we were laughing at, and I don't think he really ever got it until someone came and took the sign down.

This might explain what else he doesn't get.

Hamberger!! Hamberger!!

Use this for some more comedy. Remember the Zip Lock fingure man. And the hamberger helper hand. Together they form a unit. The 9/11 fiction commission. Said that the twin towers were hollow that they did not have a core inside of them. They were hollow like a coke bottle. Then that means maybe that every tall building in the USA are junk and unsafe to work in. Did the 9/11 fiction commission fail to see a film or any other proof like pictures on how the WTC was built? no they did not look. The WTC buildings were strong tough buildings. Just because of the middle cores were the main strength of the two towers. We have all seen typical house fires. And some have burn longer then 90 minutes and i have never seen a house that was on fire collapse. And thats for WTC7 That collapse due to CD. What is outrageous is the government thinks the american people are stupid. The 9/11 truth movement has done more justice for the falling victims of 9/11. More then any commission or government agency has so far.

All books detailing the

All books detailing the construction of the WTC are out of print..... never to be printed again?

more evidence of cover-up.... I wish I still had one.

the unique design of the Twin Towers

I love how people refer to the tube structure, hollow buildings, whatever. Basically the towers were a building inside a building. The core was built like a normal skyscraper withe the girders crisscrossing throughout. Around this was built a massive cage. Between the skyscraper and the cage they hanged the trusses. For the truly clueless, there is the jet fuel melting steel theory. For the slightly more discerning, there is (was) the pancake theory which later became the killer truss theory.

For the rest of us, there is the truth. The simple ugly truth. It does not allow us to continue to listen to uor iPods as if nothing were wrong--it is not, in other words, the path of least resistance. We, like the tops of the towers are crashing through the path of most resistance. In the case of the towers as in our own, that means that something real is driving the progress. In the case of the towers, explosives. In the case of our movement, the TRUTH.

Truthers will go down in history as heroes. Get used to it.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



We're just like the Americans in the 1770's who fought back against the King. Remember, there were still many Americans who bowed down to the King and thought that he was God. They spewed their venom at the evil terrorist George Washington who was using war tactics that the British thought was barbaric.
Of course, since he won, all the naysayers joined his side and cheered America. Had he lost, he would be written in the history books as a terrorist and those cowards would still be bowing to the King.

Show "Not a chance" by Anonymous (not verified)

ok, once and for all, what

ok, once and for all, what is wrong with your computer where you must use backslashes next to every quotation? kind of defeats the purpose of going by Anonymous doesnt it dumbass?

Show "All slashes have a purpose" by Anonymous (not verified)

so is your computer broken

so is your computer broken or is it some kind of nervous tick that causes you to use backslashes incessantly? OCD maybe? whats with the fucking slashes? cant answer that?

It's probably so he can

It's probably so he can prove to his bosses how many posts he has made each day. What do you think he makes? $3 per post?

Seriously, though, what is it going to take before people just vote this guy's comments down and refrain from responding?

better yet, what is it going

better yet, what is it going take for this guy to finally be banned? at least the s.Kings and Nicos of the world have an angle as shills. this guy is boring and predictable on top of being disrespectful and clueless. he is clearly obbsessed with all of us. its kind of sad really. DZ, for this guys own mental health you should probably just ban him already. its not like hes serving a purpose like keeping our arguments sharp or anything. he adds nothing.


Evidently he's difficult to ban because his IP address changes rather frequently. To get rid of him will take eliminating anonymous posting, which is fine with me.

goddamn, and i thought my

goddamn, and i thought my life was lonely? think of this guy sitting at his computer, changing his IP address regularly so he can come by here every single day to "set us straight". maybe bashing this guy isnt such a good idea, it makes me feel like im kicking a homeless person or something.

Although I'm probably making

Although I'm probably making his sad day better (and wallet fatter) by responding...

... if I keep him busy on one thread he may not have time to drop as many turds in other sandboxes.

Gov pay rules dictates it

Any good 9/11 Denier like you should know the slashes indicate to the government that I am doing my job, right? I DO like to get paid like you, right? The slashes mean I do not have to submit a weekly job report to the CIA and White House and I get paid for my work within 4 weeks instead of 8 weeks.

Rummy resisted the new method but he is out of the picture and the CIA got its way.

Of course, you knew that already, Chris.


That shut Chris up

Poor kid is now running scared that the CIA is after him.

Show "Why do you not understand?" by Anonymous (not verified)

"9/11 Conspiracy" on the cover of Skeptic magazine

Skeptic magazine writes a 9/11 hit piece:

If they are truly honest skeptics, then they would have
no problem participating in a public debate with
Scholars for 9/11 Truth. How about a challenge?

Just one example of their tactics:
They claim that steel-framed buildings did
collapse from fire before 9/11, but do not
cite their (nonexistent?) examples.

Show "Yes, they are true skeptics" by Anonymous (not verified)

no debate?

So if there's no debate...why are there still reports coming out about the collapses?
There's no debate, right? Why stoop to us evil holocaust deniers level and explain why the buildings collapsed?
We already know why, right? No why more reports?

Show "No one will debate deniers" by Anonymous (not verified)

join us!

so what are our goals? You never respond to any questions...just say we're all liars and holocaust deniers.
It's actually getting kind of're sputtering and running low on gas so you just repeat the same thing again and again.
Don't be upset you're losing, come join the winning side!

So...instead of wasting your

So...instead of wasting your time here with the nutjobs, why don't you get out there and holler for the proper legal venue whereby subpoenas can be issued to the principals and witnesses and we can settle this little dispute once and for all? Oh, what a jolly wet dream for you to see all of our theories come pancaking down! Can't you just see all of us blubbing like babies when the jury finds that the official story's "evidence" is air tight? How can you forego that pleasure? Spit spot! Here's your coat, what's your hurry?

Prosecutorial proof -- the gift that'll keep on giving.


Anonymous are you sure you are not CAL-CAP from ground zero in NYC? Anonymous if you think we are a bunch of conspiracy nutts. Then back off this site. And go put your own website up. Did you write the 9/11 commission yourself? You seem to love fantsy novels. And according to that book of fiction. physics took a day off on 9/11. You can tell us here the true people that want to know the truth of what happen on that tragic day. What is your claim what is your goal. And by the way what the hell is your name!!!!

Mr. Backslash!

he can't tell us his name! It's secret! Shhhhhhh.
I'm going to compile a list of all his posts one of these days this week and you'll see how 99% of his posts are just screaming and yelling and name-calling.
It just shows, the only people who still believe the official story are nutjobs like this guy. Can't even control his nervous backslash tick.
I know I said we have to ignore these guys...but it's so hard to when the guys posts are so hilarious!
LETS BAN ANONYMOUS POSTS - i'm laughing too damn hard reading this nutjobs posts.

Look how backwards this guy is:
He says "no one will debate 9/11 with us Truthers."
Then he stays on this site ALL day posting to us! So are you debating us or just name-calling like a 3rd grade?
Hilarious! Give this guy his own blog!
Mr. Backslash!

Show "You are really hillarious" by Anonymous (not verified)

good job!

well i think you just showed everyone who the real idiot is.

Even Hamburger first thought it looked like "conspiracy"

NIST contributor Ronald Hamburger said he had the first impression that it looked like explosive “charges” had been placed in the WTC buildings. See here: The Wall Street Journal, Sept. 19, 2001.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Fantastic catch.

That article is well worth the read, and would be a great basis for directly confronting Hamburger in another public appearance.

Kevin Ryan should take the credit

I got this "catch" from Kevin Ryan's outstanding presentation on the NIST report:

A New Standard for Deception by Kevin Ryan.

I highly recommend it to everyone.

I found the news article and quoted it in one of my blog entries on the NIST report.

Hamburger in his own words:
"It appeared to me that charges had been placed in the building," said Mr. Hamburger, chief structural engineer for ABS Consulting in Oakland, Calif. Upon learning that no bombs had been detonated, "I was very surprised," said Mr. Hamburger. The buildings "certainly did not do as well as I would have hoped."

also noteworthy in the article:

"By now it is accepted wisdom that the Twin Towers collapse was inevitable -- the result of extraordinary trauma followed by extraordinary fire. But this was far from the initial reaction of the nation's top structural engineers. The collapse of the two buildings stunned them. After all, other buildings had withstood trauma -- earthquakes, for instance -- akin to the assault by two 767 commercial jets. And despite the intense heat of the jet-fuel-fed flames that raged through the Twin Towers, fire-protection experts said other skyscrapers had been subjected to flames as hot without collapsing

"I was absolutely flabbergasted when it happened -- that it happened at all, and that it happened in less than three or four hours," said another panel member, Charles H. Thornton, an engineer and chairman of Thornton-Tomasetti Group Inc., a New York structural engineering firm."

A hilarious paragraph:

"One tantalizing question is whether the hijackers, who were sophisticated enough to commandeer commercial jets, also had sufficient knowledge of structural engineering to target the buildings at vulnerable points. In particular, the approach of the second jet -- its wings tilted at a sharp angle, its nose pointed toward a corner of the South Tower -- was primed for maximum damage. "He came in banked so that the fuel and the impact would hit over more than one story," said W. Gene Corley, a Chicago-area structural engineer who is leading the ASCE World Trade Center team. But Mr. Thornton suspects that would be giving the hijackers more credit for expertise than they deserved."

Giving the hijackers more credit than they deserved for the collapse of the towers is precisely what the official story has accomplished.

It's unfortunate that I didn't mention this earlier, before the Hamburger presentation. It would have been a great question to ask about.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."