Cars On Fire

Like many others, I am saddened by the internal wrangling of the 911 Truth Movement. It is a shame. We should be focussing on what we agree upon: that we refuse to accept the official theory, and demand a new genuinely independent inquiry.

Furthermore, I have been highly sceptical to the claims of "space weapons", and think that Dr Jones' work so far explains the collapse of the towers far better. HOWEVER I am drawn to the issue of the burnt out cars today, by Jim Fetzer.

Can anybody confirm this? Never mind about the cars near the WTC. What about the burn out wrecks on the FDR Drive. Is this true? If so, how in the ****** could this have happened?

Perhaps alternative explanations, however bizarre, need to be examined.

I find it telling that

I find it telling that perhaps the cars from the parking lots near the WTC complex were towed to another location to give more space for the vehicles and other heavy equipment(etc.) of the rescue teams is not even suggested as an explanation for the cars being a half mile or more away.

good point

that definitely sounds possible

Sounds Sensible

This sounds more like sense. There must surely be some New Yorkers here who can answer this ridle once and for all.

Did cars spontaneously burst into flames at the FDR Drive? With everyone so roughed up on 911 someone must have seen something?

If there are no eyewitnesses then quite frankly, I shall settle for your explanation, folks! :) And as said, I am with Dr Jones for how the towers fell.

The shame about all this is that we are dividing the movement. We must agree on the essentials! We need an independent inquiry now!

I agree it is worth considering

and that the possibility should have addressed by Wood. I still wonder what it is that burned the cars, even if there were near the WTC towers.

So it is possible they were moved, but are still odd.

If they chose FDR drive to store WTC debriis,

Why not WTC steel beams? ;-)


Cars along FDR drive were randomly toasted. These cars are at least 1/2 mile away from the WTC. Note the waviness of the tire tracks. What happened?
It sorta looks like the tires were melting onto the roadway as the drivers were instantly cooked.


This firetruck's front tire looks like it melted onto the roadway as it was turning the corner.


It really makes you wonder what happened to the driver and maybe even the passenger. I wonder if the passenger was reaching for the fire extinguisher. This looks like a police car, so it would have a fire extinguisher in it. This is car 2723 on FDR drive.


More Toasted Cars



"In the debate over toasted cars ignited by this article, some have argued that the wrecked vehicles on FDR drive were damaged at the WTC and were loaded up and transported and dumped on FDR drive for storage. First, there is no evidence that this was done. Second, it makes no sense to load up wrecks, transport them, only to dump them in a busy thoroughfare for storage. These wrecks would have had to be picked up yet again and transported again. If vehicles were truly moved from the WTC to FDR Drive, we wonder why WTC steel beams were not stacked up on FDR drive, as well, if it was such a good storage area. Third, governments may be stupid, but we doubt they could be this inefficient. If reported, it would have been a minor scandal. Fourth, we might be wrong about the facts here, but it looks like the motive for this speculation about shifting wrecks around lower Manhattan is to protect the official story or thermite story or other pet theories. We fail to see any other explanation for such a "forced" interpretation for these photographs. Fifth, marks on the roadway suggest that some of these vehicles were pushed to the side of the roadway until they could be removed. For example, see this figure. This is a more natural explanation for why some of the cars appear to have been moved from where they were damaged rather than all the way from the WTC."

If they did transport the cars to FDR drive for storage,

why didn't they stack the cars up neatly?

And why didn't they store the WTC steel beams in the middle of FDR Drive? ;-)

Imgstake, you must be from Baltimore, MD.

I know they clean up wrecks on side streets around Baltimore and then move those vehicles to the middle of I-95 or out there in the middle of the BW Parkway to store them.

As for NYC, you're probably right there, too. After all, they wouldn't want any major thoroughfares open for emergency vehicles, so why not store vehicles there. Hey, maybe it was the drivers hauling those vehicles that had that idea. This way, they could get paid for twice the work of hauling the vehicles! Great idea!

creep

So much for the glamorous life of a spy, eh?

Is this true?

In Baltimore, do they really store wrecked cars in the middle of I-95? Maybe they store them in the Harbor Tunnel.

Hey, did anyone check the Holland Tunnel shortly after 9/11? That would have been another great place to store toasted cars.

"Perhaps alternative

"Perhaps alternative explanations, however bizarre, need to be examined."

i kind of disagree with this unless those alternative explanations are kept private and/or seperate from other legitimate and highly provable assertions regarding 9/11 altnerate theories.

i dont mind somebody wanting to do serious research on such a wild theory, however i think by focusing on it and publically talking about such issues does nothing BUT harm the credibility of the truth movement. TO me its the same deal as the no-planers, sure there is a .000000001 % chance that those planes are actually holograms, but please dont talk about it, its embarassing.

I think your concern is way overblown

but agree that both sides have been unnecessarily divisive, and it may have started with Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood attacking Jones.

I also agree it is good to separate what is agreed and easily provable from what is speculative. I don't think it should be private, though, because the minds working on this the better. Lots more noise, true, but also lots more signal.

You can say anything you want, 'cause we think for ourselves.
You can think anything you want, 'cause we all want to know.

Concern

You say, "both sides have been unnecessarily divisive, and it may have started with Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood attacking Jones."

Please give references, otherwise you are promoting "a divisive ad hominem attack" on these fine researchers. Why would you want to do a thing like that? What purpose does it serve?

These two researchers are courageous enough to point out that the "research" of Steven E. Jones violates "the Scientific Method" on at least 30 separate points. Don't you wonder why Dr. Jones has not addressed these points?

Drs. Wood and Reynolds aren't campaigning for a popularity contest; they are conducting real research to uncover the truth and to bring the perpetrators to justice. Right now, they are doing far more for this country than anyone else I know of. Surely you don't have a problem with that, do you?

Perhaps you are not aware that Dr. Wood's lawyer friend, Jerry Leaphart, addressed the NCST panel last Thursday about flaws in the NIST study. You can read the documents he submitted into evidence, here, including documents from the research of Drs. Wood and Reynolds.

So, let me say this again. Right now, Wood and Reynolds are doing far more for this country than anyone else I know of. Perhaps someone should ask why Dr. Jones chose NOT to present any of his "evidence" to that panel.

Time is running out for the truth movement. If anyone has any evidence to bring forward, now is the time to do it. In a few weeks, it will be too late. So, I wonder why you are defending someone who is hiding the truth while attacking the only courageous individuals out there who are willing to bring their evidence forward.

This popular quote seems appropriate. "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." Time is short.


Where did you get your information ?

It is very plausable that they were moved.
Does he have any specifics ?

"What about the burn out

"What about the burn out wrecks on the FDR Drive"

i think this was cherry picked evidence to support the space weapon theory similar to the "powderized" core/spire time lapse you see Judy Wood pushing. In other words it wouldnt surprise me at all if those cars were moved to another location.

the only cars Ive personally

the only cars Ive personally seen burned were all government agency vehicles. I fthere are pics of civilian vehicles burned, can someone link them plz.
Thx

It's not just that they were burned, you see . .

It's not just that they were "burned" in a typical manner. Rather, paint and steel were etched in a manner I've never seen. Metal door frames sagged, yet their plastic door panels didn't even melt. Windows in fire trucks exploded outward, in otherwise lightly damaged vehicles.

And, there is new focus on the fact that every building with a WTC prefix was utterly demolished, some with gaping, multi-story chasms within them. This would be easily explained by falling debris from WTC 1 & 2, except the voids in the buildings are nearly empty, hollow holes.

I lend no credence to "space beams", but there is some damn interesting new stuff on ST911 about this, for which I can form no logical explanation from known mechanisms. 

 As for the burned cars on FDR, that was a confusing day to say the least. But the cars look as if they were not towed to that location. Some are very askew, most are covered in WTC dust. Again, no endorsement, but a call from craniac for others to view the new information and respond.

  

 

 

 "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it might cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know it - now" - Patrick Henry

Yes

whatever you think of Wood's argument, her webpage has brought awareness of the other buildings, which are part of the puzzle, even if she is solving it wrong. I knew nothing about the other buildings until I read her paper.

People attacking her are throwing the baby out with the bathtub.

Why worry about what Sean Hannity or some theoretical average person will think? Your credibility depends on what you say, not what someone else says.

911 Bloggers, let's stop the attacks on free inquiry.

Pyroclastic flows?

Those both constitute evidence for controlled demolition and have the capacity to transfer a lot of heat. However:

"...paint and steel were etched in a manner I've never seen. Metal door frames sagged, yet their plastic door panels didn't even melt. Windows in fire trucks exploded outward, in otherwise lightly damaged vehicles."

this, if correct, is weird. My first question would be: Is it correct?

Anything that heated the steel as to warp, no matter if the passing of a pyroclastic flow or possibly even some hypothetical resonant wave phenomenon (analog to water in the microwave..?) would, by sheer vicinity to the affected steel, also affect the attached plastic panels (as well as just about any iron-based alloys within the massive radius that allegedly encompassed those cars and the WTC!), so I have a very hard time believing this allegation is correct in the first place.

Regarding the cars on FDR, it would be telling to see their surroundings - if they're isolated cases, they have been towed there...

Pictures of Toasted Cars Over Half a Mile Away From Ground Zero

See Judy Wood's paper for numerous pictures

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html

Very selective spacebeams, aren't they?

These cars have clearly been towed under the overpass, or else the overpass itself would have been damaged by the supposed spacebeam. Unless it was some as of yet to be invented non-electromagnetic beam scavenged from the Roswell exotic vehicles garage, of course. The damage to the vehicles near the WTC can easily be explained by pyroclastic flows...

Here's a simulation of what really went down

magnifying glass game

wicked!

Again, CB, "truthers" like

Again, CB, "truthers" like you are using pictures with zero context or background information to make your self detective crime solvers. This is no different then Woods pointing out that Jones used a picture of research team at ground zero "peering into an inferno" as proof of molten metal at ground zero. It's sad and all you weekend crime solvers do is hurt everyday the chances of getting a real investigation in 9/11. It's sad that you don't know how to point your "energy" in the right direction instead of bantering about burnt cars. Speculate all you want, all you doing in hurting your country be making the truth movement look like a bunch of teenage losers out for a smoke on a freezing 10 below day during lunch time.

Maybe not serious, but for

Maybe not serious, but for what its worth:

http://u2r2h.blogspot.com/2006/12/towers-masered-into-dust.html

Update From Judy Wood's Paper Regarding Toasted Cars

"In the debate over toasted cars ignited by this article, some have argued that the wrecked vehicles on FDR drive were damaged at the WTC and were loaded up and transported and dumped on FDR drive for storage. First, there is no evidence that this was done. Second, it makes no sense to load up wrecks, transport them, only to dump them in a busy thoroughfare for storage. These wrecks would have had to be picked up yet again and transported again. If vehicles were truly moved from the WTC to FDR Drive, we wonder why WTC beams were not stacked up on FDR drive, as well, if it was such a good storage area. Third, governments may be stupid, but we doubt they could be this inefficient. If reported, it would have been a minor scandal. Fourth, we might be wrong about the facts here, but it looks like the motive for this speculation about shifting wrecks around lower Manhattan is to protect the official story or thermite story or other pet theories. We fail to see any other explanation for such a "forced" interpretation for these photographs. Fifth, marks on the roadway suggest that some of these vehicles were pushed to the side of the roadway until they could be removed. For example, see this figure. This is a more natural explanation for why some of the cars appear to have been moved from where they were damaged rather than all the way from the WTC."

 

From Here

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html

Wow, you mean someone in New

Wow, you mean someone in New York might have
made twice as much money by towing the cars twice?
Shame on them.

Did Thermite do this?


I notice the East River in the background, so this is quite a distance from the WTC. How would thermite get there? And, does thermite leave such a weird distortion yet not burn through?

I don't think so.

>Furthermore, I have been

>Furthermore, I have been highly sceptical to the claims of "space weapons", and think that Dr Jones' work so far explains the collapse of the towers far better. HOWEVER I am drawn to the issue of the burnt out cars today, by Jim Fetzer.<

I've seen some of these pictures too, but I would include the ones in the parking garage as part of the anomaly due to their uneven damage.

Fact is there are electromagnetic devices that could cause some of these effects, but you don't need to reach for "space beams". Actually that's a misnomer; you'd be reaching for an orbital platform, which a high powered amature telescope should be able to pick out. Considering the obviousness of such a thing, and the inability to hide it, this part of the alternate theory is VERY doubtful.

But a terrestrial based energy source, that was perhaps used to produce an EMP to knock out communications? I don't know.

But if one IS going to investigate this do it with these caveats, PLEASE:

1: be clear you ARE NOT representing 911Truth or the strongest evidence against the government. This is a side curiousity that may have significance in time but is not nessecary NOW to put the bastards in prison.

2: approach the evidence properly: physically examine cars if you can; check the tow companies and see if they have arrangements to store damaged cars along the public way; find out how many vehicles were damaged that day; research insurance claims--what does the adjuster say?

3: then compile your evidence accordingly and do experiments on a small scale, trying to replicate the effects. Yes, people preform high frequency experiments as a HOBBY all the time--if you're a scientist you should be able to get access to the right equipment.

4: not in a position to do the above? Pass these guidelines on to Dr. Wood, et al. Please--and do not confuse this research with activism.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

>why all these caveats

>why all these caveats<

So it looks like bleeding SCIENCE, not wacko-jacko-ness.

Getting a new investigation and impeachment proceedings is the priority--but if this is the FIRST thing the public thinks about reguarding 911Truth--we haven't got a chance--911 or 7/7.

Please, someone tell me it's a coincidence they rhyme...

We haven't got a chance

if you keep attacking those who are trying to help uncover the truth and identify the perpetrators.

Mr. Jones just admitted that he knows of no way thermite could have brought the towers down. So, where does that leave us?

It leaves us with two weeks left to solve the crime before the perps are "found not guilty."

I'm not attacking anyone

I'm not attacking anyone over this--Mr. Disruptive Jones, except you, right now, for saying I'm attacking someone.

Please quote where I am attacking someone over this--as opposed to giving them constructive criticism. If you've read my posts in other threads then you'd know I think some of these anomalies have merit--but should not be the VANGARD if you will, of the truth movement.

Good night, chum.

Still waiting for those

Still waiting for those quotes...

That's directed at the

That's directed at the RESEARCH, not a person. "It", "it", "it"--

Bloody hell...

Don't you wonder? And why no one else here seems concerned?

Don't you wonder why this engine is on fire, yet the paper is not?
And isn't it strange that the gas tank at the back of the car isn't on fire, either?