For over 5 years, private citizens have researched 9/11and found overwhelming inconsistancies with the official story of what happened on the day America was attacked. For over 5 years, those citizens have demanded a truly independent investigation of the attack. For over 5 years, Americans have seen investigations which failed to investigate, and have been handed answers which failed to answer. While there are literally hundreds of questions that have been asked, which to date have not been answered, the question that absolutely must be answered is: WAS 9/11 AN INSIDE JOB? That is the only question that will never be answered in the afirmative by inside investigators, appointed by government insiders. A truly independent investigation must be of the people, by the people and for the people. It must be conducted in the full light of day, with nothing hidden, and nothing held back. Secrets are for those who have something to hide!

More: http://www.911initiative.org/

Thanks Joe, for the submission.

So well said!

The questions deserve answers! Like i said before.
We don't need to solve what happened on 9/11.The questions are enough.We need our congress to do the job we appointed them to do,and a media to cover it.
We also don't need to argue between us truthers.
So to the new congress....WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS!

content good . . . format hurts my eyes

It is my opinion that you should get rid of the eye straining color scheme. Black on white is always right.


the website looks shit.

the website looks shit.

fucking hell, people have gotta stop setting up more 9/11 websites.

image is everything unfortunately, i dont want to downhearten you, but what are you offering that we cant find somewhere else?

rant over....

make friends with a web designer

Lisa Beamer

Lisa Beamer Discusses Her New Book
Aired August 23, 2002


KING: So you feel Todd is somewhere now?

BEAMER: Absolutely. Todd is still alive.

Do a Social Security Death Index search for Todd
Beamer at http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

You get one record with the date of birth as SEPTEMBER
ELEVENTH, 1968 and date of death as 6/10/97.

So Lisa Beamer was correct when she told Larry King
that Todd Beamer is still alive!

Lisa Beamer's book, "Let's Roll: Ordinary People,
Extraordinary Courage", was published in association
with the literary agency of Alive Communications,
Inc., 7680 Goddard Street, Suite 200, Colorado Springs, CO 80920.


No Plane

John Yates was an Army civilian employee and 9/11
Pentagon survivor.

“There was no noise. I did not hear the plane. The
room just suddenly exploded, and as I was blown
through the air,” said Yates, security manager for the
Assistant Secretary of the Army, Manpower and Reserve


She's talking about heaven

She's talking about heaven you simple minded fool.

Government Shill

And why would you defend the governments conspiracy theory? You attacked the person who posted this and avoided the fact that Todd Beamer is not listed in the SSDI.

More research needs to be done regarding which passengers

were real and which were ficticious. (It is possible for a gov't agent to portray the widow of a "passenger.")

"60 Percent Of Ground Zero

"60 Percent Of Ground Zero Workers Sick" PBS News


Lukemia caused by jet fuel?

This report highlights the plight of 911 first responders who have subsequently contracted disease from contamination at the WTC site. It is sad to see NYPD detective John Walcott mistakenly supporting the official story by stating that his AML Lukemia was caused by benzene in jet fuel. Benzene, a powerful carcinogen, is not used in commercial aviation fuels, Jet A and Jet A1. Some references maintain that military jet fuel JP8 contains benzene but it would seem that the likely source for benzene at WTC would be from burning plastics and not aviation fuel.

911 Truthers have not illustrated the simple math regarding "Destruction by Jet Fuel" as advanced in the "Official Story". Each of the twin towers had a mass of 500,000 tons. The Boeing 767s that struck the twin towers had a maximum fuel load of 24,000 gallons. These numbers exceed our ability to quantify mentally. But divide each specification by one thousand to maintain the ratio. Now, try to consider that you could purchase 24 gallons of kerosene to MELT and annihalate 500 tons of steel and concrete. Yeah, right ... pull the other one! Everyday common sense makes a sham of the findings of the 911 Commission.

Also, didn't all jet fuel burn-up in a matter of minutes anyway?


I LOVE this analogy: Can 24 gallons melt 500 tons of steel?

Sometimes it takes something like this to help put the idea into the perspective of common sense.

Fire by Simple Math

Airliners never fill planes to capacity unless the length of the flight demands it (cost efficiency). East Coast to West Coast usually require 10,000 gallons of fuel for the five hour flight. Considering the planes were flying for a half hour or more already, they burned up 1000 (likely more) gallons leaving 9000 gallons. The initial ball of fire has been estimated by pyrotech specialist as a 5000 gallon burst, but let's low ball it at 1000 gallon. The end result leaves 8000 gallons of jet fuel. The Towers were some of the largest office towers on the planet, potentially holding thousands of office cubicles. A typical office cubical is 10ft x 8ft and stands 6ft tall occupying a total of 480 cubic feet of space. 1 cubic foot can contain a little more than 5 gallons. 480 cubic feet (one office cubicle) could hold 2400 gallons of jet fuel, 480 x 5 = 2400. That means all of the jet fuel from the planes would have occupied 3.3 cubicles of space per tower, 2400 x 3.33 = 7992. Jet fuel, like all fuel will burn fast when spread out and contacts air quickly.

The official conspiracy theory will have you believe that 3.3 cubicles worthe of jet fuel which was quickly airborne managed to stay liquid, after it had already been aflame, and seep into over 500,000 tons of steel infastructure standing at a quarter mile in height and then universally heat thousands of steel joints within an hour and cause cataclysmic collapse not once, but exactly in the same way, twice.

Enough of the absurdity. If you are still pitching the official conspiracy theory, you're either dim and have major problems witth math, or you are aiding and abetting the criminals - whoever they are. If you care not to stand up for America upon recognizing the truth, in the very least, please do not stand in the way of an independent investigation.

A-bloody-men. Ever read


Ever read "Brave New World"? There's this creepily similar shying away from details/ math/physics of the collapse in some people's eyes that remind me of the deltas or "D"'s, (I think that's what they were called) in the book. Those were the people who, as part of their training to be ONLY manual workers, were taught to fear just the sight of a book.

Your analysis is excellent, unfortunately, before you can verbally finish, that wary look will spring in eye and your audiance will start hedging away...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Thank you for the great analysis

A quick question - do you know if the 10,000 gallons includes a reserve?

Another thing we are asked to believe is that part of the fuel went for fireballs that went all the way down to basement. One precision fireball in the North Tower shot down to the 22nd Floor, where the security command center for both towers just happened to be. Assuming this is true, how much of the fuel went for these fireballs, I wonder.

Alan Dershowitz never misses

Alan Dershowitz never misses a chance to lobby false charges of anti-semitism at somebody. i cant stand that man.

Engelhard: Carter’s Book is Mein Kampf, Protocols

Novelist Jack Engelhard, minus a firm grip on reality, absurdly lambastes former president Jimmy Carter as the author of a modern day version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Engelhard is whirled into a tizzy by Carter’s Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid published recently by Simon & Schuster, not exactly the publishing wing of Hamas.

“Israel’s continued control and colonization of Palestinian land have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land,” writes Carter.

For Englehard, however, telling this simple and undeniable truth is akin to “Holocaust Part 2,” and is downright biblical, as in the Old Testament part of the Bible. “Historians tell us that Pharaoh was the first to stir up the multitudes against the Jews, and we have it from Scripture that a new Pharaoh will arise to torment us from generation to generation.” Carter, according to Englehard, is this “new Pharaoh,” arrived to persecute the Jews, never mind the colonization Carter writes about is an established and verifiable fact, one systematically ignored by Englehard.

Instead of reading Carter’s book “chapter and verse,” Mr. Engelhard relies on the pro-torture advocate, Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz. “Dershowitz, to find point-by-point where Carter turns history on its head, truth inside out. That’s where we find exactly how Carter casts five and half million Israelis as villains against 300 million peace-loving Arabs,” the novelist writes.

But then, of course, novelists specialize in fiction.

Carter has not cast five million Israelis against “300 million peace-loving Arabs,” a sarcastic enough portrayal—in fact, racist, as it appears Engelhard believes most of these Arabs are anything but “peace-loving” and are instead stubbornly determined to kill the Jews, or at least push them into the sea, a common enough Zionist myth, for some reason usually accepted with little challenge, at least here in America. No, in his book, and on C-Span and elsewhere, Carter asserts a rudimentary and irrefutable fact: Israel is an apartheid state (although the term apartheid is less than sufficient) and so long as it remains so there will not be peace in the “Holy Land,” or for that matter anywhere else in the Middle East.


Dershowitz is a repulsive little shyster


he sure is. i wonder who in

he sure is. i wonder who in the hell would feel the need to give you a negative point on that comment? no worry though, i just upped you.


NOUN: Slang An unethical, unscrupulous practitioner, especially of law.
ETYMOLOGY: Probably alteration of German Scheisser, son of a bitch, bastard, from scheissen, to defecate, from Middle High German schzen, from Old High German skzzan. See skei- in Appendix I.
OTHER FORMS: shyster·ismNOUN
WORD HISTORY: Calling someone a shyster might be considered libellous; knowing its probable origin adds insult to injury. According to Gerald L. Cohen, a student of the word, shyster is derived from the German term scheisser, meaning literally “one who defecates,” from the verb scheissen, “to defecate,” with the English suffix –ster, “one who does,” substituted for the German suffix –er, meaning the same thing. Sheisser, which is chiefly a pejorative term, is the German equivalent of our English terms bastard and son of a bitch. Sheisser is generally thought to have been borrowed directly into English as the word shicer, which, among other things, is an Australian English term for an unproductive mine or claim, a sense that is also recorded for the word shyster.

What does knowing for

What does knowing for positive truth that the official story of 911 is false tell us?

That there is a sophisticated massive cover-up involving thousands of government officials at every level.

Those cover-up activities have involved many crafty schemes to mislead and distract and divert the truth seekers. The time honored tactic of deliberately setting up numerous dead-end rabbit trails has been used to the max in the cover-up.

Many people have lost their jobs (government and private sector jobs) because they would not go along with the cover-up. There are now reports of people being diappeared and suicided.

We have enough information to establish that the official story is false. We really do not need much of an investigation to establish or verify that information because we are talking about the laws of nature, the laws of physics and the laws of construction engineering being said to having been violated, and that is an impossibility.

There can be "no independent nothin'" in the U.S.A. Our whole government and business establishment structure is made up of people who have all been purchased and who are now owned. Webster Tarpley and Jimmy Walters and others have tried to get the independent investigating panel to be mainly an international one made up of people from other nations. Now that sounds infinitely more promising that trying to get something honest and truly independent going in the U.S.A.

I think a more appropriate question to ask such a commission would be


Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.

Wow -- tell me more

"Many people have lost their jobs (government and private sector jobs) because they would not go along with the cover-up. There are now reports of people being diappeared and suicided."

Could you elaborate, please, and provide sources if you have any. Thanks.


New York Film Critics Living In A Fantasy World

In case the word hasn't been spread the "New York Film Critics" have chosen the fictional propaganda piece
"UNITED 93" has it's "Film of the Year". I will admit that I haven't seen the movie but "Film of the Year"?!!!!!
Was this the only film the critics watched all year? This movie was nothing less than a pathetic attempt to have us believe what DIDN'T happen. I'm not sure how the timing of this announcement fits in with mass media government cover up but let's not be fooled into thinking this "award" was given out on merit. Does anyone ever wonder how when people call into radio shows on their cell phones while driving that more often than not the connection becomes intermittent or simply breaks off ? BUT, we are all to believe that numerous, lengthy cell phone calls were made at 35,000 feet in a 757 going 500 miles an hour all without a hitch........ truth is stranger than fiction.

Get Organized... *Repost*

Personally I think we need to condense our arguments..... we have compiled so much evidence and speculation.... on so many aspects of this event.

We need to have a top ten..... from there the evidence and arguments can branch out.... the people that we need to attract to this movement are those not willing or able to invest the time to go to the depths of the information that many of us have explored.

1.) Forknowledge and Lies about that Knowledge
2.) Building #7
3.) FBI, CIA, Military / Hijacker, Terrorist, Osama bin Laden Connections and Training
4.) Physics and the Phsical Properties of Steel and Fire Etc.
5.) Proven errors and omissions of the 9/11 Commission Report and NIST report.
6.) Cover-up and lack of investigation
7.) Characteristics of Controlled Demolition
8.) Norad and Military failures and relationship to the "Coincidence" of simultanious drills
9.) Evidence & Lies and with-holding of evidence of Pentagon Event
10.) Operation Northwoods, PNAC, Etc.

Just throwing this out there... there may be better reasoning..... but if we can narrow these down... we can better focus.....

The discussion is great.... but if someone could create a blog where we can compile evidence under 10 headings.... with sub-headings.... we can get our ideas together... give opinions as to why this info is important..... and create a system where the best liked additions are always at the top then if people want to dig a bit deeper.... they can move down the list to the lesser liked additions.

With this we can pin the appropriate evidence, speculation and thoughts on the appropriate people.... everything related to Dick Cheney or Condi Rice could be right under their heading

I have absolutely no technical savy or I would set this up.

There is just so much information out there..... we need to be able to front the best stuff and be able to explain to people its importance then be able to link that info to the next related item.

Let's build our own pyramid of information hierarchy..... What makes many of us different is that we can connect the dots.... we need to create a platform that helps others to more easily do the same.... in a timely manner.

From this we can more easily formulate a case if we were ever given the opportunity to prosecute these criminals... we can communicate with each other and be able to offer suggestions to improve prior posts...and sharpen our arguments and evidence..... we will be able to create a list of questions that need to be answered and designate those who need to answer those questions.

We have to focus our energy if we are going to take this to the next level....

we need a platform to do this.... we have the people.... we have the knowledge.... we have the resolve.... We just need to bring it all together.

When we get it together... with the evidence and the questions.... they will not be able to deny us an investigation.

Sad but true

The one thing people need to realize is that both the democrats,and republicans sold us out a LONG time ago to the global elite.You know the ones....The own the Federal Reserve,and the central banking system.They also own and control the media.

Organize information

For someone coming at this fresh, most of the 9/11 truth sites are daunting. Most use the design principal, "Everything and the kitchen sink". What captured my interest a few years ago was the picture of the pentagon lawn without a mark on it.

We need something like Moveon.org that organizes workflow for active members.

Guess I should do it.


Excellent idea and breakdown...

....maybe Steven Jones and his offshoot group of scholars could tackle this on a new website...

There are so many aspects to 9/11 Truth that it becomes overwhelming at times; i'm reminded of the 8 blind men describing different parts of an elephant parable....breaking 9/11 down into manageable components that can be pursued exhaustively is a great idea...

Wouldn't it be great to be able to go to one, well-organized place to fully examine one 9/11 topic exclusively at a time?

It could be set up like a

It could be set up like a blog.... like 9/11 digg it.... where the best presented or essential info could be bumped to the top instead of the most recent... we put in alot of effort and much of it is lost.... we can moderate ourselves... combine efforts... and know that our efforts will pay dividends..... making our posts that much more precise and concise.

but we need to agree on our talking points.... focus on what we can prove... what we can take to the people.

we can still go to the depth of the subject... but our audience needs to start at the surface

this is a very daunting subject.... a beginner could get lost very easily.

But we also need to start compliling our case..... if we had good questions.... the people will demand answers....

You don't have to be a lawyer to ask the right questions.

You don't have to be a judge to know right from wrong.

Excellent Idea

I was just planning on making such a post. I'm in the process of researching the War Games some more and just finished crossing the Rubicon.

Top 10 facts that prove an inside job, and a list of the most damning facts. The top 10 list is about 80-85% done with extensive notes (over 65 footnotes). I'll likely make a pre post for just feedback and then repost it with the suggestions accounted for.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

For the scientifically minded truthers here

For the scientifically minded truthers here, I recommend this blog,


It's been going on since Friday and I just don't have the time to go on...
The arguments are getting technical too, but the bullshit is still flying..

Bullshit example: "What appears to be material ejected upward could actually be the light alluminum panels..."
They say that even though I continually point out that steel beams were photographed 200' away embedded in nearby buildings...

Below are two examples of OCT defenders quoting me, followed by their response.
Can you join it?

solar roller:
[You say that] Near freefall time is suspect? Just time one of the many videos yourself! I know that dust obscures the view, but it's really not hard to extrapolate to get close.
I don't need a website to tell me the collapse time.
Don't like that imprecision?
OK then please read the seismic proof link I gave above (for the twin towers).
THAT is exact. It is PROOF that the the official conspiracy theory is a farce.

Parts of the building not in the 208/208 ft square of the building's footprint fell faster than that in the footprint. How hard is that to get? The videos show this. The exterior walls peeled away and fell unimpeded. The core had to fall... through the core. The perimiter walls began to make it to the ground in a bit more than 9 seconds. The core appears to follow at between 11 and 13 seconds (dust, smoke, debris cloud makes it hard to tell exact time).
The seismic proof is anything but. The second collapse event that the seismograph records is less than free fall time, and therefore, cannot be correct. Instead, it shows us what the seismographs detected compared to background signals. So the beginning or end of the collapse was less "noisy" than the ambient vibrations. This teaches us a valuable lesson on attempting to use any device near its limit of detection.
So we have proof that the official story is closer to correct than this supposed gospel truth.
Regarding the fall of WTC7, it is the first time that a steel frame building collapsed after having part of another building fall into it, causing structural damage, accompanied by fire. So another first.
What appears to be material ejected upward could actually be the light alluminum panels that were attached to the exterior of the building, caught in the turbulent airflow, not steel support beams. Some clearly do not follow a balistic path, further evidence that these objects move at the whim of the airflow.

solar roller:
"Perhaps an accurate [NIST] computer model could explain how multi ton steel can be thrown horizontally over 200 feet!"

Perhaps. But I think you underestimate the difficulty of modelling the collapse process. You need collision detection. (Computationally expensive, but tractable). You need to model the elastic and ductile behaviour of the steel. (Also tractable). There will be a great many elements to model, which you will need to fit into RAM. (I believe current machines top out at about a terabyte of ram, so maybe). You need to model the fracture of the steel and failure of the joints (um ...). You need to model what the concrete is doing. You can't model every fragment of concrete (there are far to many), so you'll need approximations of the dynamics of concrete rubble in violent motion (it's safe to say they're unknown). You'll probably want to model the (turbulent) flow of the air, but current computers are simply not powerful enough, so you'll need approximations. (Computers a just getting powerful enough to model turbulent 3-D processes now.). There will be large relative velocities during collapse so you need a very small time step size. Combine that with the number of elements to simulate, and current hardware is simply inadequate to model the entire collapse within a human lifetime, even if you could design a model.


All aspects of the truth are consistent

The NIST computer models are a joke

They refuse to release the models:

“World Trade Center disaster investigators [at NIST] are refusing to show computer visualizations of the collapse of the Twin Towers despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers, NCE has learned. Visualisations of collapse mechanisms are routinely used to validate the type of finite element analysis model used by the [NIST] investigators.”

Taken from the official NIST report:

“The Investigation Team then defined three cases for each building by combining the middle, less severe, and more severe values of the influential variables. Upon a preliminary examination of the middle cases, it became clear that the towers would likely remain standing. The less severe cases were discarded after the aircraft impact results were compared to observed events. The middle cases… were discarded after the structural response analysis of major subsystems were compared to observed events.”

“The more severe case… was used for the global analysis of each tower... To the extent that the simulations deviated from the photographic evidence or eyewitness reports [e.g., complete collapse occurred], the investigators adjusted the input, but only within the range of physical reality. Thus, for instance… the pulling forces on the perimeter columns by the sagging floors were adjusted...”

NIST also revealed:
“The software used [by NIST] has been pushed to new limits, and there have been a lot of simplifications, extrapolations and judgment calls.”

Does this evidence prove anything besides the fact that computer models are fun to play around with?

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Anthrax update.

Anthrax attack on US Congress made by scientists and covered up by FBI, expert says


.... ah yes.... those evil scientists.... they had been waiting on their opportunity to unleash the anthrax and the attacks on 9/11 were their lynch pin.... their window of opportunity was fleeting.

seriously..... what was their motivation?

and if this was their intention then Bush knew about this too..... he seemed to be taking the proper precautions at least.

and what an investment.... owning a good part of the only company that makes the anthrax vaccine..... genius!

And where's the "Bird Flu" now?..... how much useless vaccine did the tax payers buy again.....

we are the Eskimos..... and they are selling us ice

Rummy made millions of $$$ on stocks re: that bird-flu vaccine


Donald Aspartame ...

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

yep, we'll never know!

Except that anyone can google "camel club" and "anthrax" and probably figure out which of the scientists had the motivation to send out anthrax with a note saying death to America, death to Israel.

Yeah, we'll just NEVER know ANY of the truth about 9/11. What a MYSTERY it all is!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force



I can not believe you read this and just nodded away?

There are so many things patently wrong with this article.... the fact that they want you to write this off is sickening.

How long did it take them to figure out and tell us all that the terrorists sent those letters.... then they told us it was terrorists with-in our own country.... which brings the fear and questioning of your neighbor factor.... and now it's the FBI covering for our own scientists... because they wanted to protect them???????????

My head is spinning?

Move on people.... there's nothing to see here..... we will do all your thinking....I think?????

It is one thing to claim inconsistencies

It is entirely another to willfully deny the answers. Unless you stop, you will, as always. go nowhere.

You talking to me?

Who are you addressing in this post? when you remain anonymous... you must be more specific

perhaps you should consult a mirror prior to these comments.... then listen to your words.... think for a moment about what you just said..... then if this still makes perfect sense to you... then feel free to type away.

The FBI is breaking it all down for you to understand.... they have your best interest in mind.... they really do.... have you noticed how hard they are trying to cover all their bases.... one by one... they explain them all..... why?

If we weren't asking these questions and pointing out their fumbles.... you'd never hear anything about any of these things.

Show "You are as bad to talk to as any other 9/11 Denier" by Anonymous (not verified)


Lets see who gets in trouble for this....

wanna make a bet..... I bet you that nobody gets in trouble for this.

The FBI or any of it's agents will nott get punished.

The Evil Scientists will get off scott free.

It's just another coincidence.

such a good story though.... keep an eye out for those indictments

where's www.journalof911studies.com ??


been offline since at least this morning. It WAS the only scholarly site left after Fetzer threw off his mask & pulled his Benedict Arnold by destroying the credibility st911.org.

Journal of 911 studies url

site nearly gave me an

site nearly gave me an epileptic fit..