Tales of Infiltration!

"...there is a significant penetration of the so-called "9/11 Truth" movement by elements funded and supported by the Russian-Israeli Mafia and its supporters in the Bush administration and U.S. media. The reason for the penetration is primarily to deter the movement from looking at the role of the Russian-Israeli Mafia in the terrorist attacks and ensuring that more far out disinformation theories are accepted as credible explanations for the systematic and coordinated "failures" of the U.S. air defense, air traffic control, law enforcement, immigration, and intelligence systems." - Wayne Madsen Report, Dec. 26-27, 2006

"We shouldn't be secretly on the lookout for 'suspicious looking people'... because, they're not gonna be suspicious looking! ... Agents, will do anything to establish their credibility, up to and including cold-blooded murder. So, in our movement, they would tell any lie ... in other words, anyone of you could be an agent. I don't mean that in any mean-hearted way... I just mean it literally, and on the face of it ... the British at the highest level were accomplishing what they wanted, which is always, "Divide and Conquer"... 4 out of 5 dictators agree! Divide and conquer works! ... you guys who are agents in this room, you know... that you don't know, which other people in this room are agents. I know you don't know. And it's better that you don't know because if you met one of the other agents and something went wrong, and you spilled the beans, then there's a lot of damage done... it's all 'need to know' all the way up." - Barrie Zwicker, June, 2006

"So I’m going to say this group, more than any other that I can think of in terms of a movement, is going to be infiltrated, is infiltrated and there are going to be all kinds of efforts to subvert your work, all kinds of efforts to corrupt your work and all kinds of efforts to discredit you. Please understand that and take it in the spirit in which it is being given because this is what will happen and probably is happening. So please... your work is too important, your mission is too precious. Be careful in every aspect of the work, make sure your allegations, your claims are well founded because if they're not you will be discredited."
-- Dr. William F. Pepper, June, 2006

"At one point in my life I thought that real conspiracies were a left-wing fantasy, and that sophisticated Marxists and other social theorists would not have reason to want to acknowledge the existence of such conspiracies against the Left or against anyone else. But when I was indicted for "conspiracy and using the facilities of interstate commerce with the intent of inciting to riot" (as one of the Seattle Seven federal conspiracy trial in 1970 arising from a large demonstration against the Vietnam war and in support of Black liberation which I had organized and which turned violent when police attacked the demonstrators) I quickly learned that my organization (the Seattle Liberation Front) was totally infiltrated by police agents.

Indeed, many of those most vociferous in denouncing me and other leaders for being "too timid" were actually paid FBI informants or members of various law enforcement agencies. When one such changed his mind and began to reveal his story of having been solicited by the FBI to try to engage us in violence that would have led to some of us being killed, I really "got" that conspiracies do sometimes happen--paid for by the U.S. government." - Rabbi Michael Lerner, in 9/11 & American Empire Vol. II, Christians, Jews and Muslims Speak Out, draft. (emphasis added)

"When the Communists approached my father as the leader of the tenant's association, his response was to go to the RCMP where he was advised to join the Party and report on its activities... I was to know none of this until many years later. For me my father was a good Communist, an officer in the Party and the regional distributor of the Party weekly... Family pressure finally forced my father's hand. He withdrew from the Party and informed the relatives of the real nature taken by his work there..." - David MacGregor, Canadian Dimension Sept. 1977.

"On 29 March 1971 two RCMP operatives – a man and a woman posing as Canadian journalists – shot Mario Bachand, a prominent 27-year-old FLQ member, in his friend’s Paris apartment (McLoughlin, 1998). The RCMP may have targeted Bachand to inform the FLQ that the game was over. Indeed, following his assassination there were no further FLQ operations. Canadian secret police prepared carefully for the Paris shooting, putting out false news stories about an FLQ rift that centered on Bachand months before agents shot him three times in the head with a silencer-equipped 0.22 pistol. The few scattered remnants of the Quebecois terrorist group likely realized Bachand’s death was a state execution. But left-wing independantistes in Quebec (who shared the FLQ’s aim of a sovereign Quebec, if not its methods) never questioned the official story – the alternative, that Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau’s government brutally murdered a Canadian citizen overseas was not even considered." - David MacGregor, SEPTEMBER 11 AS ‘‘MACHIAVELLIAN STATE TERROR’’, in The Hidden History of 9/11, 2001.

"The Mounties bombed an oil installation as part of a dirty tricks campaign in their investigation into sabotage in the Alberta's oil patch.

The revelation came at the bail hearing Thursday of two farmers who the Crown says have turned their complaints that oil industry pollution is making their families ill into acts of vandalism and mischief.

Their lawyer produced evidence that the RCMP bombed a wellsite and that they did it with the full support of the energy company that owned it. The Crown admits the allegations are true." - CBC News

"Secret intelligence agencies are fatalists to the extent that they regard all large-scale sociological and political changes as inevitable. As soon as they identify a new phenomenon which they have not yet penetrated, their only thought is how to infiltrate their agents and assets into it, so they can steer it or influence it when the time comes. Whenever the leaders of intelligence agencies see a train leaving the station, their only thought is to climb on board, quite irrespective of the destination, as Gen. Paul Albert Scherer, the former head of West Germany’s Military Counter-Intelligence (Militärischer Abschirmdienst) and one of the greatest experts in this field, assured me some years back." - Webster Griffin Tarpley, Synthetic Terrorism, Chapter 2 (emphasis added)

Sometimes the infiltration can be subtle, or overt. In the following example from an anonymous source, the subject is not even sure if it was true infiltration:

The subject and three others decided to protest the banning of an appearance by the "Red Dean" of Canterbury at McGill University, in approximately 1947. A decision was made to pass out fliers to organize a protest rally. People stayed up late mimeo-graphing the fliers, and the subject planned to start passing them out the next day. However, there was a practical monsoon the next day, making the distribution of paper fliers first thing in the morning impossible, so our subject went back to bed.

Nonetheless, later that morning a few police started to turn up around the McGill Student Union (just off campus). As they began to attract a curious crowd, the number of police continued to increase, until there were police on horseback in the street (Sherbrooke, a main artery) and about a thousand milling students. However, subject and friends had sworn silence about the protest, to the extent of not even discussing the event by telephone. The fliers had not been passed out at all. Thus, either someone did talk by telephone or one of the four must have been a mole. There were two Social Democrats, a Communist, and one other, an activist in the Student Christian Movement whose politics were unknown. Was one of them a mole?

The historical record is crystal clear as far as intelligence services and the penetration of the Left. In some cases, organizations that already had radical tendencies were infiltrated and then encouraged to be more radical. In William Pepper's case, he tells us the story of infiltration of the “National Conference for New Politics” in 1967, a movement designed to challenge the political status quo with an anti-war, anti-poverty agenda. Martin Luther King and Dr. Benjamin Spock were to lead this political movement. Pepper describes how agents provacateurs positioned themselves within the nascent party and pushed through highly questionable “unacceptable” resolutions designed to divide the participants.

It worked.

Check out Pepper's speech from last June, the most relevant part starts at the 30:00 minute mark (the whole speech is well worth sitting through);

(Title graphic inspired by I Was a Communist for the FBI radio programme.)

Show "CIA, FBI, LANL... ?" by Robert Bruce Banner (not verified)

Aw man...

A troll is using the alias of one of my favorite comic book characters. The bastage.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002


I'm concerned about infiltration. I'm also concerned about individuals attacking members of this movement that do not deserve it. Hmmmm... where did this "Los Alamos" information come from... I wonder... could it have originated from an untrustworthy pos? I think it did.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Who originated the idea...

That because Steven Jones was in some way linked to Los Alamos, that he must therefore, be untrustworthy?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Steven Jones wears star wars pajamas with the death star on them

I couldn't resist reposting this:

Did you know that Steven Jones likes Elvis?
Did you know that Steven Jones washes his dishes?
Did you know that Steven Jones is completely different than Alex Jones?
Did you know that Steven Jones likes science fiction movies?
Did you know that Steven Jones was born in 1831?
Did you know that Steven Jones works for a laser beam company?
Did you know that Steven Jones wears star wars pajamas with the death star on them?

Who gives a crap?

Examine his argument and his evidence. Everything else is irrelevant. Those who personally attack people are suspect.

9/11 truth is not a popularity contest. It is not a distortion campaign. It is not a smear campaign against individuals.

It is an idea. Ideas are considered on their own merit and their merit alone.

Those who try to convince otherwise are not interested in the truth. They are interested in their own version of the truth and their own reality. They are interested in their own personal vanity. They are interested in covering up the crime of the century and two illegal wars.

Ideas are Ideas. People are People. Don't confuse the two. And stop telling us what to think about Steven Jones, the man. We should only be concerned with his ideas.

Failure to do so is intellectual cowardice.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."


is not an admirable trait.

Just because you're paranoid

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

vile creature


Plenty of people know my name

I've been active in the truth movement since way before it was a movement. More than a few highly respected people would vouch for me if I asked them to. I lost family on 9/11.

I don't give a shit what name you use or what projects you've managed to attach that name to - your actions here speak far louder. And what your actions say is that you are full of shit.


My condolences...

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Thanks Jon

Your actions speak louder than words as well and are greatly appreciated - more than I could possibly say.

Now I'm curious.

I don't know anyone with the initials YT.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Yours Truly

YT is a phonetic representation of the nick 'whitey' - no connection to my real name. :)

Don't tell me what I must do

And there's no need to hang around here whining about how horrible we are either. I have no desire to engage you in discussion - I simply want to encourage you to leave instead of just making a lot of noise about it.

Show "I am sorry about your family, YT." by CB_Brooklyn
Show "Amen brother CB, tell 'em all about it!" by PreacherMan (not verified)


Let me be the first to say: What?

What are you on about? You've gone around the bend...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

So then stop coming here.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

That makes sense...

Anyone know who Bizarro is?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Me, no--he be, who

Me, no--he be, who is?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

From Wiki...

Due to a somewhat disjointed continuity, several versions of Bizarro have appeared in DC comic books, all of them inversions of Superman with gray or chalk-white skin, a twisted sense of logic and a resultant speech pattern ("Me am going to kill you" would mean "I will save you" in Bizarro speech). Due to his imperfections, Bizarro is frequently a foe of Superman, but sometimes finds himself in the role of hero (In this case, an anti-hero).

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

"a twisted sense of logic

"a twisted sense of logic and a resultant speech pattern"

Yes, Jon--got that--observe my fake speak impediment?...or was that for everyone else?

BTW: you ever read "The Authority"? And I am also annoyed a troll has decided "people wouldn't like them when they're angry". Maybe they should sign off "TROLL SMASH!"

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Fetzer was attacked before

Fetzer was attacked before the Woods/Reynolds flap because he was irrational on the radio. Go listen to what he said, and how he behaved.

Why haven't Wood and Reynolds been threatened with unemployment?

If their theory is on the right track? After all, wouldn't the public at large demand it? Wouldn't it make a great example out of the "outrageous conspiracy theorists"? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the public at large would approve of them losing their jobs? After all, how many people would believe their theory?

It doesn't seem fair that Steven Jones lost his job over a reasonable theory.

Answer that one.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Show "Los Alamos' legacy" by Robert Bruce Banner (not verified)



No, but what does bug me is

No, but what does bug me is that Judy Woods was in a 6 year coma, exactly in the 6 year gap between her MS and PhD...

That is peculiar...

Doesn't that just beg to be questioned in the slightest?  I mean that is pretty much a MIRACLE!

6 years is a long time to be absent from the world...   



(right click, "save link as" works better)

Her resume lists 9 years between her MS in 1983 and her PhD in 1992.

Not that you have shown any evidence she was in coma for any period.

I'd love to know more

about Wood's alleged 6 year coma. Where does this story come from?

Woods - 6 Year Coma

found it from the comments at some website where students get to rate their professors. I don't recall the exact url for the site, but I can't imagine many in existence with that business model.

Oh and to the dude above, 9 years is the time between her MS and PhD, subtract the time it took her to get her PhD, and you get roughly 6 years.. If she does indeed state that she was in a coma for 6 years, then it would have to be in this time period...


- found the link - http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=495285

EM 201
Like others said, she had good intentions and when she wasn't trying to convince us Bush blew up the WTC she was actually nice, but she wasn't a great teacher. Too many times she starts examples and doesn't finish them. And yes, she was in a coma for 6 years. How crazy is that.
EM 304
She woke up from a coma and decided her calling was to become a professor. She did not really seem to know the material, and she was hopeless at trying to convey it to the student. She fails to be able to complete a thought if not a sentance. If it is possible at all, aviod her.

<edit: For completeness I registered at the site to get access to all of the entries for Judy Wood... There is no validation other than email so anyone can enter posts on any prof. as long as they are at the same Univ. as you designate when you register.  Seems strange that these LAST TWO entries are the only ones that mention anything about a coma, (goes back to '04 3 pages total) and are within 2 weeks of each other, and around the same time that Prof. Jones announced his paper, and about the same time Fetzer latched on to him like a vampire.

I doubt the story is true, but the entries are there... to be found later and used to discredit Judy Wood and damage the 9/11 Truth Movement.

I can just see Bill O'Reilly having a field day with that one... Can't you? Too coincidential...


Now I remember reading those messages before - thanks.

Very strange.

Battleships exist...

Battleships exist... Battleships in orbit around the earth do not.

btw, I watched the redub of Akira the other day, and burst into tears laughing about the space beam theory when I saw the part with the SOL weapon blasting NeoTokyo from orbit.  Is that what you guys watching when you dreamed up this lil theory?

Is there some hidden relevance to your question?

Just more trolling bullshit?

Yes I did, I support the

Yes I did, I support the professional method of scientific research... Prof. Jones outlined several points that the TV-Faverky supporters should have addressed and FAILED to miserably...

I am all about putting up or shutting up...


And you and your fellow hacks know my name, and you know I kept the same alias I had while in the scholars forum in order to maintain some continuity...

I have only one name in this realm, unlike your cohorts (Jim Jones - Kool Aid Supreme)

oh and FUCK YOU! 

Looks like those dossiers are coming right along

Have you considered employment with an intelligence agency?

s/he does work for an

s/he does work for an intelligence agency... its obvious...

the moderates troll around looking for leakers and such, playing the part of the disruptor is what they do while looking...

just a guess... 

Perhaps it could explain


Just teasing Andrew (;

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Ha ha ha. That guy ain't no Fire Engineer.

He's either a 9/11 coverup perp, or a certifiable dunce.


He didn't explain how Newton's laws and Conservation of Energy weren't violated in the obvious CGI video and he claims NPT has been debunked? Duh.

His constant use of f words and others place him more in the dunce category. Oh well.


imgstacke is no engineer! 

I left the University of

I left the University of Maryland FPE program to take care of a family member, I never claimed I was an engineer...

I joined ST911 to offer any assistence I could, one was to create the logo for the Journal of 9/11 Studies...

That is the path my life lead, no shame here... How about you?

And that is all the freebies I will give you... The rest is on a need to know basis, and obviously YOU don't need to know...

But it is nice to know that I must be an irritant to you (Fetzer, et al)... Pointing out Judy Wood's coma story must be premature huh? Saving that for Bill O'Reilly or something? (Rovian tactic)

Oh where you attacking me?

Oh where you attacking me?

I used to be good friends with someone in your line of work... A very lonely life she had... I learned a great deal about the self-imposed lifestyle of an attache...

So save your probe for someone who is susceptible...

and oh EAT A DICK! ;D

Thanks for the link back to

Thanks for the link back to the Raw Story comments - found this gem that would be helpful for people who save good posts of other people seeking to expose the lie of 9/11.

Conspiracy nuts...I was in the vicinity of the Pentegon strike and I can tell you with 100% certainty that a 757 flew direcly into the building..how do i know this? I watched it happen.

Anonymous | 12.05.06 - 1:49 pm | #

Were you walking? ... Driving? ... Flying?

How Close to the Pentagon's crash site were you?

What is your expertise on aircraft? ("I can tell you with 100% certainty that a 757 flew direcly into the building")
was it a 757-200 or a 757-300?
maybe it was a 767 or a 707 or 717 or 727

What kind of background do you have to be able to tell that it was a 757?

Did it fly over you?
did it fly to the North, South, East or West of your location?

Was the plane loud?

Did you see it hit anything before the impact with the Pentagon or was it to high up?

How far off the ground was it flying and for how long were you watching it before impact?

Were you interviewed by the media?

Were you interviewed by the FBI, Police or anyone else that you might have had to make a statement to?

Oh and Pentegon is spelled PENTAGON
and direcly is spelled DIRECTLY

not just his cohorts

Andrew has posted here under other names too - at least one that he's admitted to.

As I have stated before,

As I have stated before, Madsen appears to want us to become paranoid about infiltrators.

It is good to identify and recognize true disinfo people who are working to weaken the movement.

But since "the movement's" only real "actions" are educating and waking up more and more people by spreading videos or maybe speaking up in a highly visible public venue or having a highly public person speak up in mainstream media, I do not see that we have to be much concerned about infiltrators. Heck, we aren't actually doing anything.

But when some people in the movement want to try to get through to congressmembers in some kind of effective and concerted way and that effort is squelched, then that real action squelcher needs to be looked at.

That is when I drop out of a group - when no one is wanting any deliberations about taking some actions that are indeed real actions.

Yes, infiltrators are real, but the only time we have to really worry about them is if attempts to accomplish some meaningful action(s) always gets headed off at the pass, rather than followed through, acted upon and completed.

It really is a catch 22. You need large numbers of people thinking and acting and working together and that means groups and movements. At the same timeL groups because of their nature, get screwed up and lose effectiveness. They get bogged down in arguing and drowned in debates and compromises and full of factions plotting and sceming against the other factions, so that taking real action based on principle, not compromise, becomes the furthest thing from the group's endeavors.

I saw a movie about the French Resistance movement in World War II. They had to contiually worry about moles and infiltrators and sabateurs. It showed how they handled those matters . They did handle it well and were able to still carry out their activities. "We" most probably would not have won World War II without the activities of the French Resistance. Now THAT was a group that worked, so it is possible

But I am afraid that our non-war situation is far far different.

But we are about to lose all freedom for every human being and we are about to engage in endless unjust wars, so just as much is as stake as was in WWII Europe, when Hitler's Third Reich was about to take over all of Europe.

I personally feel that I accomplish the most by myself. If a "keyboard warrior" has any effectiveness at all, then I guess I have to take my satisfaction in knowing that. Almost always, one does not have any idea of what positive effect for the movement one has.

But I intend to just keep on fighting in my way, not because I feel fulfilled knowing I have really made progress for the movement, but because I know that it is the right thing to do. It is morally useless and injurious to keep one's head in the sand. I also do not spend much time trying to wake up people who love their state of denial.

Again, I just myself have become suspicous of Wayne Madsen. I am suspicous of anyone who does not seem to truly recognize the phony left/right paradigm and the uselessness of Democratic Party and Republican Party. For heavens sake, haven't we seen how duplicitous the top Democrat members of the U.S. Congress are. They are not going to really make an effort for impeachment and none of them are going to press to get our troops completely out of the Middle East right now. Of course, the entire Senate has been a bad joke for a long time. Total traitorous "millionaires club" sell-outs of America and Americans.

Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.

No, Madsen speaks very prudently about infiltration, shills,

moles, etc. are a serious threat!

Dachsie, there must be groups in Austin

Have you been to meetings? What was your impression?

There is only so much you can do by yourself and it's great to meet with others, even if only once every few months. Give it a thought.

I hope all is well with you and yours.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Show "Alex Floum No Clean Hands As He Steals Scholars Domain Names" by CB_Brooklyn





Make it more clear please

I do not quite understand what is being said here.

Let's see. Alex Floum has been the webmaster for st911.org, Dr. Fetzer's and Original Scholars for 911 Truth website. Now, Dr. Jones has broken away from that orginal group and has a website called STJ911.org. Dr. Fetzer was always "in charge" of the ST911 website while Dr. Jones was "in charge of the forum for scholars only associated with ST911.org.

What makes you say domain of ST911.org was "stolen".

Please explain this all more clealy. Is Floum no longer associated with ST811.org website?

I agree that Mr. Floum and Mr. Burks seem to be running some kind of scam and are juicing donations in a sneaky way, but I am still unclear about what exactly was "stolen" from Dr. Fetzer's group and website. Burks does clearly show signs of being connected to the government, so I guess by the transfer of domain to Burks, Floum is also connected to government.

FYI, this phony nonprofit organization scam was made famous by Abromoff and DeLay. But I would mention that David Icke has had some kind of "Bridge of Love" (or something like that) nonprofit organization for many many years.

As for Dr. Jones, I do not believe Dr. Fetzer would have openly accused him of trying to take over or steal the ST911 website without real justification. Those are pretty strong words and Dr. Fetzer would not have said them without some basis in fact. I personally do not trust Jones. He apparently did some behind the scenes power plays that definitely breached the bounds of ethics.

Dr. Fetzer is trying to get the Scholars original group set up under good organizations and ethics protocols. I do not know where that stands at the present time.

Please fill us in on what exactly Mr. Floum has done.

Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.

Quote ST(!! re. Floum

"In the interim, I would ask that Alex Floum, a founding member, assign and transfer all rights in st911.org and our journal’s website as intellectual properties to Scholars for 9/11 Truth, with the understanding that Scholars for 9/11 Truth is going to incorporate as a non-profit organization. Alex has been exceedingly generous in securing domain names for Scholars at my and Steve’s direction and hosting our web sites. I am overwhelmingly in his debt for doing so. At this juncture, a more formal structure suggests that different arrangements would be more appropriate.

My intention is that, once Scholars has been established as a non-profit organization, I will take steps to secure it 501(c)(3) status, which will enable supporters to have tax-exempt status for contributions in support of the society. We have been doing what we have been doing with no budget, no funding, and no source of income. In the past, I considered that a strength of Scholars, but I readily concede that we need to be able to finance research, sponsor lectures, arrange conferences, and publicize our discoveries."

I found this quote in an article by Dr. Fetzer regarding the Anniversary of ST911 .

However, I am still unclear on what Floum has done.

Seems whatever is being alleged in regard to all of this ought to be made crystal clear not only to us 911 bloggers, but most importantly to Dr. Fetzer and ST911.org

Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.

Show ""As for Dr. Jones, I do not" by Mark Roberts

Just out of curiosity Mark...

When Jim Fetzer was interviewed by Alan Colmes, did you happen to see any of the comments regarding his absurdity on this site as it happened?

For instance, I had a long correspondence with Jim that ended up in an argument over his interview.

And since when has the 9/11 Truth Movement ever had a "leader" aside from those elected by the Mainstream Media? You know the ones... Dylan Avery, Corey Rowe, Jason Bermas, Alex Jones, Jim Fetzer, and so on...

This is a leaderless movement. If you were as knowledgeable about this movement as you claim to be, you would have known that.

It seems to me as if you're deliberately focusing on the "weakest links" of the movement in order to portray it as something bad.

What am I saying? "Debunkers" would never do something like that. *rolls eyes*

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Show "Jon, I was responding to a" by Mark Roberts

You're right...

There are people who "organize, promote, disseminate, publish, etc...", however, they are activists, and patriots, not leaders. Every individual that makes an honest effort to make a difference is a "leader", however, there is no one that has been "elected" as a "leader". Instead, the media has done as you have by focusing on the "weakest links", and proclaiming them "leaders", and the public, and yourself, have eaten it up.

Instead of focusing on the "most prominent promoters of falsehoods" or people trying to answer questions the Government will not, why don't you focus on the fact that we were lied to about the world changing event of 9/11?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

By The Way...

I think you're a little confused. The "most prominent promoters of falsehoods" regarding the 9/11 attacks are not members of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

The most prominent promoters of falsehoods:

The most prominent promoters of falsehoods about 9/11 AND about the 9/11 truth movement... are often curiously the very same people who do not want a new investigation.

How do you plead, Mark Roberts?

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

That's a good question...

Do you want a new investigation Mark, and what number are you on the family member's petition?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Show "Weakest Link?" by James (not verified)

You mean...

Like family members calling for a new investigation, and the declassification of relevant documentation? Hmmmm... where has the coverage been from the media in regards to that?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Show "non sequitur" by James (not verified)

Thousands Of Family Members Believe 9/11 Was An Inside Job


Alex Jones interviews 9/11 victim's father Bill Doyle who lost his son Joseph Doyle during the September 11th attack...

Original airdate: July 7, 2006

Alex Jones: Founded in September of 2001, the World Trade Center United Family Group is a nonprofit 501c3, and you were its founder and head and you say you represent over 7,000 people. What is the average view of those that you represent about 9/11 and the cover-up?

Bill Doyle: What they want is... If you want to believe the 9/11 Commission's story -- like a lot of us don't, ok? You really gotta go look in the... It almost looks like there was a conspiracy about 9/11 -- if you really look at all the facts. A lot of families now feel the same way.


Alex Jones: With your 7,000 members, I'm sure you've talked to most if not all of them. What percentage would you say believe 9/11 is an inside job to some extent?

Bill Doyle: Maybe half... Probably 50/50.

Full interview here:

Uhh, "who they are" Never

Uhh, "who they are" Never post before coffee.

It's you who is the lying fraud, Mark Roberts!

BTW, aren't you also that imposing goon who stalks truthers at Ground Zero?

Show "Doing the Floum Jam Shuffle or Doublespeak In the New Age World" by CB_Brooklyn





Show "JOHN F KENNEDY Warns of Secret Gov & Speaks Against Censorship" by CB_Brooklyn

This is a good speech. But

This is a good speech. But it's not about infiltration of the press or leftist groups by the government. It is a speech directed to the press about communism, the cold war, and the threat from it. It talks about the problem of self-censorship in a time of war. The images shown while he speaks are a bit manipulative. Kennedy wasn't talking about a nwo or the 9/11 attacks.

Just listening to Kennedy's speeches makes me admire him. He was so idealistic and uncompromising -- It's no wonder they wanted to and succeeded in taking him out.

Rather ironic how CB_Brooklyn & Mark Roberts are posting on a

blog about infiltration.

I concur. They rarely post

I concur. They rarely post in other blogs and in constructive ways. And yet when a blog comes out about disinfo and infiltration they post and swarm like flies to poo.

You Know...

That's a blatant lie don't you Andrew? As a matter of fact, I remember dz went to GREAT lengths to get portions of that movie just to post on this website.

As a matter of fact, here it is.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

I don't comment...

In a lot of threads. And "most important documentary footage of the WTC demolitions" is an opinion.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002


I was pointing out that Mark forgot to mention the fact that people were furious because of Fetzer's performance on the Alan Colmes show.

You know... so people wouldn't think everyone agreed with what he had to say.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Show "Infiltration Guide" by Between5thand6th (not verified)

Jon, has Mark Roberts ever answered one question

you've asked him?

I mean really answered it, not the coniving deceptive deflections he offers as answers.

Just curious.

He has yet to answer any of the rather straight forward questions I've asked, which is no surprise, actually.

Keep up the good work. We are winning and it is more obvious every day, especially with all the new editions to 9/11 Blogger. (nothing like negative confirmation, sigh)

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.


The one question I wanted him to answer was, "Is the United States Government perpetrating a cover-up in regards to the attacks of 9/11?"

He responded by saying he has found no evidence of LIHOP, MIHOP, and no cover-up regarding the "cause" of the attacks.

That's not what I asked him. You would think someone that has "researched" 9/11 as much as he has would have at least stumbled across one tiny little cover-up? Not Mark though. No siree bob.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

"So please... your work is

"So please... your work is too important, your mission is too precious. Be careful in every aspect of the work, make sure your allegations, your claims are well founded because if they're not you will be discredited."

This should be highlighted in six foot high letters...or perhaps used as one of this site random quotes?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

recycled MO

"agents provacateurs positioned themselves within the nascent party and pushed through highly questionable 'unacceptable' resolutions designed to divide the participants"

Spacebeams, anyone?

Perhaps a bit of the old TV Fakery?

Recycled actors, too - have you heard that the Zapruder film was a hoax?

"Lets burn our copies of the

"Lets burn our copies of the 911Commission in a BIG bonfire in front of the Capitol Building"--remember that one?

As for the "space beams", I'm not so much bothered by the research(as long as its not screamed fromthe rooftops) as by persons(hint, hint) who call anyone who isn't gun ho about it a "dis info agent".

Same goes for other persons who want to attack anyone who recommends "Loose Change" as a "dis info artist".

Or attack those who recomend impeachment as "dis info agents".

Listen you NSA gits--it's not amateurs night.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Show "Alex Floum gives Scholars website to Bush buddy, Fred Burks!" by Truth Teller (not verified)


Some have called this a "War on Terror"....a war that may last our entire lifetimes.

The "War for Truth" will be the same..... The Truth that we are searching for is not a Truth that will die with the prosecution of a few.... This is a war that has many perpetraitors.... This is a war that must endure.... After we reveal the truth... we must not stop the pursuit.... and these people who are guilty of useing their power for improper means.... will know that they are under our watchful eye.... Soon we will once again control the fate of the people and the world.

They wanted a never ending war .... they didn't expect this!

Didn't you post the exact same thing on Christmas?

Right after drawing up your blacklist of "enemies of truth"?

Can't wait until the holidays are over.

2007 is gonna be kickass -

I missed this "enemies of

I missed this "enemies of truth". Sounds like a giggle.

That said, I'd be willing to consider ALW's olive branch if it is sincere. Must say though: I DO NOT let people tell me I've said things I haven't and I DO NOT let people bullshit their way out of being called on disruption(Mel spinning his/her call to attack supporters of Loose Change as disinfo artists as an "etiquette problem".) More relevant to ALW is his confusing my critizism of RESEARCH with critisizing him as a PERSON, in spite of my choice of pro-noun, "it". (Different thread) I am also WAY under impresssed when someone responds--explosively in some cases--to something I DID NOT write. Especially when I basiclly agree with their position. I will NOt have a manufactured drama with an ally. For this reason I will not get into discussions with RT.

None of these problems make one a dis-info agent--though persistantly failing to learn from ones communication mistakes will lead people to wonder. And if they have good reason to wonder, it is disingeneuos to pretend otherwise. That said, there just may be a goodly many of us who have written communication problems--or, more likely, don't recognize the limits of the written word, especially on-line. For those I give the following caveats:

On-line you neither give nor recieve the usual communication cues you get face to face: facial expressings, intonation, body language. As a result we have a GREATER responsibility to ensure written clairity. And to recognize our jokes/sarcasm have a greater probablity of being miss-interpreted.(Been on both sides of that one!) So for those who post obviously controversial comments, insults etc and then call others "enemies of free speech" when called out, GROW UP.

And for those of of the last group who ARE dis info agents/trolls, independent or paid, get a life. Let me remind you:

THERE ARE NO LEADERS AT 911Blogger; we are each our own leader. Targetting the most vocal of us will not magically make 911Truth go away. Think of why you are doing this-- YOU are part of the problem. You are welcome to become part of the solution anytime you wish--YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Excellent points

Speaking of RT - has anyone heard from him recently?

Where *is* RT?

I haven't seen him post for several weeks. Maybe he's travelling for the holidays. Or maybe he's enjoying a holiday on the Romanian coast, courtesy of the USG. (Hope not.)

No idea - they probably

No idea - they probably spooked him...  A full on psych job is a tough thing to handle...


RT's been on vacation

He's doing fine and he'll be back soon. :)

That is good to hear, both

That is good to hear, both that he will be back, and he is on vacation. 

[deleted-double post]

[deleted-double post]

Offer's off.

That was quick...well for me. I'd just seen it...

You really need to relax, Mr. Watson, no one is "hindering"

anyone's 9/11 research.

(BTW - who is doing actual research on the use of directed energy weapons?)

The fact that nano-thermate exists AND, when combined with other KNOWN explosives, can account for ALL of the observed phenomenon regarding the destruction of the WTC buildings on 9/11/01leads most thinking people to accept this as a reasonable working hypothesis.

Now, if someone can actually show me some real evidence that points to some exotic, never- before-seen method of destroying large steel-framed buildings AND that these technologies actually exist and that ONLY these technologies could have been used, I might begin to consider them as an alternative hypothesis.

For now, it is much more logical to consider that the perps did it the old fashioned way, they blew the buildings up with chemically based explosives.

The number one mission of 9/11 Truth is to point out that literally hundreds of claims made by the government about what happend on 9/11/01 are not true and demand investigations that completely answer ALL the questions in a comprehensive and coherent manner.

As these investigations procede we will find out exactly what happened and who did it, including the precise mechanisms used to destroy the WTC buildings. So, for all those that worry that 9/11 Truthers are being led away from the truth, chill out and get your backs into working for new investigations.

The 9/11 Truth movement is like a train going downhill, nothing will stop it and all those who try will be crushed, best to get onboard or step aside. This train will be arriving in 2007.

Excuse me, I have some signs to paint and put up.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.

Two blatant lies in one day?

And you wonder why no one likes you.

The "war" you described was not started by people like me.

It was started by individuals with a history of causing disruption within this movement. Individuals that start email campaigns directed against certain individuals in this movement. Individuals that write denouncing articles against certain organizations within this movement. Individuals that write denouncing articles about certain events that take place within this movement. Individuals that keep tabs on what certain individuals within this movement are saying so that they can use their statements against them in the future. Individuals that make sure to act like lunatics when the mainstream media decides to give this movement some attention. Individuals that take it upon themselves to "investigate" certain individuals within this movement in the hopes of discrediting them.

It wasn't started by people like me.

Tell me Andrew, do you know anyone that fits that description?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002


You knew who I was talking about.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

I checked it out.

It looks like a pretty well-put-together site. Not that I'm trying to get rid of you here, but it looks like you would be a lot more comfortable there, if you really think we're truth charlatans.

One desperate emotional gambit after the next

No one works harder at trying to scare up some sympathy, I'll give you that. You're like the energizer bunny of emotional blackmail. How's your health? Are you still typing these messages out with one hand? It's touching to know that even though this site is the death of free speech, run by thugs - the very heart of the 9/11 coverup itself - etc etc that we're still at the top of your contact list in the event that anything happens. Hopefully you'll get to finish compiling your dossiers on each of us before you're taken away for telling so much truth.

I took it a different way

It sounded to me like Andrew was saying that this is an important website, and that he posts here because he is concerned that this important website is being infiltrated. I do not read this as a statement that the site is run by thugs. Whether or not this site is "the death of free speech" is a separate issue -- I don't think it is, but I think that free speech is discouraged on certain issues.

Andrew was responding to the question of why he does not leave -- that's when he said he does not post here for fun, and that in fact his partner and he are seriously concerned about possible retaliation. (Casseia's comment was more nuanced that "why don't you leave then," and she clarified it later, but Andrew was not unreasonable in his response.)

Further, I read his requests to his familiy that that his death be reported here to further show that he thinks this website is important, and would bring his death to the attention of a great number of good people who would be concerned about the death of someone vocal against the 9/11 official lies.

I agree with dz's "About" statement that this blog is "an excellent opportunity for 9/11 researchers to reach a wide variety of politically active individuals."

I also like this statement on the About page: "We do not seek to force any opinions on the subjects or articles covered, nor do we necessarily advocate the positions stated in the news we cover. It is up to the viewer of this blog to do their own research, and to reach their own opinions."

With all due respect, it seems to me that this blog, through the prevalence of abuse focused on certain ideas, which often seems to be against the spirit of the About page as well as the Rules, effectively advocates certain positions and even forces certain opinions.

If someone wants to put up a blog about their favorite baseball team or whatever, I could see them banning criticism of their team or allowing advocates of another teams to be abused by supporters of the owner's favorite team.

Even where the website addresses more serious issues, like Daily Kos, I can see Kos banning discussions of 9/11, because he makes it clear that he speaks for Daily Kos, and that "It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory." So If Kos thinks 9/11 talk will hurt chances for electoral victory, that's his prerogative. It bothers me, because Daily Kos is such a widely read blog which discusses many issues of foreign policy and war that have arisen out of 9/11. In my view, "Al Qaeda did 9/11" is the fundamental premise of much of the discussions at Daily Kos, yet questioning of that fundamental premise is banned, reinforcing that premise among a great number of intelligent, politically active citizens. But Kos is not dishonest about this -- he states what he believes, that he does not question it, and that it is his prerogative to ban discussions. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

This site is different, I would submit. This site is about events of criticial importance about which the truth is not known. We all should agree that we are seeking truth about this event.

I appreciate dz for funding this, and he should be very proud of this site. However, but think that this site has taken on a life of its own as a central location for so much 9/11 news and commentary, and that it is not appropriate that certain views be effectively censored through abuse.

Drawing lines is not at all easy, as concerns about the effects of certain alternative views on the credibility of those advocating different alternative view is a valid topic of discussion, but it seems that this has gotten way out of control, and that almost any topic devolves into cross attacks between advocates of certain positions.

This started with Andrew making a proposal that accusations of "disinformation" stop. Perhaps Andrew said something else earlier, and is being hypocritical. That does not take away from the soundness of his proposal.

This diary is itself about infiltration, so it is natural that disinformation is being discussed here, but it seems to happen on most blogs, especially the ones with lots of comments.

In conclusion, I think that Andrew's desire to keep posting here should be seen as a compliment to the person that founded this site and the people that post here.

I think we share many views about 9/11, and are concerned about these views not prevailing because we genuinely believe they are true. We also seem to share the view that this website is a key place where consensus on this issue is being forged.

I think what Andrew is saying, and I would agree, is that the importance of this site is why it would not be surprising that site is infiltrated by people representing entities not necessarily interested in finding the truth about 9/11.

(This could include those who do not represent the perpetrators - I can see the government, the media, and big business having an interest in covering this up, even those agencies or corporations not involved in 9/11. Who wants the people to learn that the government and media got such a big event so wrong -- not the government that used this as an excuse to go to war, not businesses that have profited from the war, and not the media and advertisers who don't want the media so profoundly discredited.)

LeftRight, you made a fair point, politely. You are right that no one is hindering areas of research, and you are right that investigations will be necessary. My concern is that an investigation might avoid uncomfortable areas if there is not a group advocating that these areas be investigated. Therefore, I think this forum is an important place to hammer out a consensus as to what areas should be investigated.

Exotic weaponry might be one such area. I see your point that it may be impossible to do actual research in this area, but I am not qualified to say what methods might be available. It does not strike me as at all beyond the realm of implausibility, though, and it seems reasonable to develop an explanation by ruling out other explanation.

No planes is another area. I will go out on a limb here and say that I have been looking at this issue in depth for two months, and am convinced that it is irrefutable that there no planes hit the World Trade Center towers. I base that in main part on the amount of kinetic energy the planes had and how much they would needed to penetrate the towers, so that video images of "butter-knife" depict a physically impossible event. That might be narrowed to "no big Boeings," but unless there is some kind of denser plane that can fly, which has not been shown, one might as well say "no planes." One might also say another object could have hit, but that also has not been shown and is not really the main point. The plane impacts are a fundamental premise of so much of the government's explanation, and knocking this out is hugely important ans simplifying. This should not go unquestioned merely because of some obviously falsified videos and varying eyewitness testimony.

It bothers me that other people don't agree with me, and I want a chance to convince people at this important website without being accused of being a "shill" or whatever. Sure, no one's stopping me from doing my own research, but I have made up my mind, and simply want to move the consensus toward recognizing this as a valid line of inquiry. That's all. I want this investigated by real experts backed by resources. If the 9/11 "truth" movement comes to a consensus that this theory is absurd, what chance is there that an official investigation will look at this? That would be a tragedy, in my opinion.

I'm sorry this was so long

Also, I want to say that I meant this:

"I think we share many views about 9/11, and are concerned about these views not prevailing because we genuinely believe they are true. We also seem to share the view that this website is a key place where consensus on this issue is being forged."

but it could apply to all of us and to many subsets of us that agree on certain issues and want them to prevail, or at least to be considered.


"Also, I want to say that I meant this to apply to me and Andrew"

I only bring up your health because you do

- usually in the middle of a discussion where your advocacy of all things shady is being shot down.

Regardless, I wish you good health - physically, mentally and spiritually.

"I don't think you are an agent"

Congratulations, you're right for once.

I do think you are an infiltrator - my only evidence is your unceasing infiltrator-ish behavior so I'll just mention that it's my opinion and move on. I'll also say that I'm quite pleased you showed up for this discussion - you're a virtual EXHIBIT A.

Re your comment in that other thread

where I also responded: that's the difference between you and the trolls you think we should be "defending the truth to." If something happened to you, I would raise holy hell (as much as possible from the West Coast, at least.) I know where YT is coming from, respect him, and I'm skeptical of *everyone* but based on our history of interactions, I don't read that as emotional blackmail but prudence. The same is true of me (that I am not remotely suicidal and I could be in the blackest, nastiest pit of depression and would NEVER leave my daughter motherless.)

Anywas, when I said I wasn't trying to get rid of you that was a sincere remark.

My sincere response.

I think you know this, but I would be pleased if you would give it some real consideration, while simultaneously entertaining the idea that I am no kind of shill and on no kind of "anti-research hit squad."

I had the privilege of having a really first-rate education, so that even though I was a theater major, I had to take biology at a school whose biology program is nationally known. (I could have taken physics or chemistry, but you get the point -- it was not the standard "science for humanities losers" that you can get by with elsewhere.) It left me with a decent understanding of and a great enthusiasm for the scientific method as one way humans attempt to arrive at the truth. My belief, Andrew, is that that is the method used by Steven Jones and what Judy Wood, et al, are doing is NOT that. Steven Jones is not going to arrive at an all-encompassing explanation of the WTC destruction over night, or possibly ever. That's not how it works. Nonetheless, what he is doing is leading us closer to the truth along a carefully defined, rigorous pathway and I think that effort has more value than making wild guesses about exotic weaponry.

that site has Rick

that site has Rick "Mini-Nukes" Seigel's fingerprints all over it...