Mid Week Open Thread

Notice: Sorry for the site outage this morning, this occurred due to abuse being done on the web which referenced this website, and was not within our control.

We've been getting more and more non-9/11 related submissions lately. Seems like there is a desire for a site that is 9/11 skeptic friendly, but covers a lot more than just 9/11 related subjects..

So, here is an open thread. We will try to have these more frequently, in return please understand that we would like to keep the blog submissions 9/11 related - that is what people are coming here to find!

Open thread, have at it!

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Terror police 'found 9/11 speech'

Tuesday, January 30, 2007

A speech by al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden was found at a London flat used by the alleged 21 July plotters to make rucksack bombs, a court has heard.
The November 2004 speech addressed the American people on the "causes" of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the US.


Show "SEPTEMBER112001.COM" by Amanda Reconwith
Show "SEPTEMBER112001.COM" by Amanda Reconwith
Show "Why are you hiding this post?" by Amanda Reconwith

US mercenaries attack US troops, US blames Iran

Do the numbers 01-31-07 mean anything to the occultist creeps in power? Just in case it is an unlucky number, I ate some kelp tonight for its high potassium iodide content (blocks thyroid from radiation poisoning). Bet Cheney is taking his.

I think the crap is about to hit the fan due to this false flag op where US mercenaries attacked US troops and now Iran is getting the frame, I mean blame.

Check out this CNN story. They forget to mention one of the attackers was blond. But they do say they had American vehicles, American weapons, spoke english, wore American uniforms and knew where to find the American troops. I say if it walks like a duck . . . http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.main/index.html?eref=rss_...

or it could have been a

or it could have been a Mossad operation.

News editor at The Watchman Report, www.watchmanreport.com, delivering 9/11 truth to the Christian community


mossad, i can believe, but what's with that web site? All that creepy god talk just let's people off the hook. End times? Now you're looking into crystal balls. My sign is Scorpio, should I play the lottery today?

Just silly. My six year old likes ghost stories, too.

Ask Jerome Hauer

He's the one who told the WH to start taking Cipro on 9-11-01.

He was also the guy behind building Rudy's OEM Bunker in WTC 7.

George Galloway disses people who question official 9/11 story

Thinks Muslim fanatics did 9/11:

Galloway on Talksport Radio Show, January 26, 2007

Oh well...

Sometimes, the experience of seeing one journalist or public figure after another whose commentary I've previously found valuable take a dive on 9/11 and shill for the official story, I'm reminded of the old Queen song, 'Another One Bites the Dust'.

I loved it when Galloway skewered Christopher Hitchens and the neocons regarding Iraq. But now, to heck with him.

1. Go to www.youtube.com 2.

1. Go to www.youtube.com
2. Search for "911"
3. Organize it by view count
4. Go to the 911 video with the highest views
5. Write a comment that goes against the official story
6. Wait
7. Observe you're comment be deleted in real time.

Youtube.com Censorship
Youtube and Foxnews censorship

this is kind of

this is kind of funny------------------

but you can go to those sites----and act like you are a 911debunker

but complain about how you dont know how to beat the wtc7 smoking gun----say what it is

then lie and act like youre ticked off cause you cant beat it

ha ha---this works real well when calling into fake msm shows too

What this country needs is a

What this country needs is a online community to share information. We need to create one, just ONE website that we can spread the word about. It does us NO good by creating thousands of websites that makes the information spread out instead of centralized. We need to mimic corporate news and create a few websites and maybe even create our own news station that will spill facts and news and not be available for sale. The owners should be the people who want the truth and want to impeach bush.

that's what the idea was

that's what the idea was behind my website. if you haven't seen it yet, check it out.


There's room on my site for all the information and evidence relating to 9/11. Then i have 'other info' sections that can contain other information that doesn't relate to 9/11.

My collection of movies covers topics such as 9/11, false flag terrorism, the federal reserve, war on drugs, free energy, JFK, etc.

I've made this site pretty much by myself. But if everyone likes my website, i'm hoping that people will help me expand on the information i have on there, so that we will create one central resource to educate people about 9/11 and other important topics.

The url is catchy and easy to remember. Truth - 911 - dot - net . .. .has a nice ring to it. The design is edgey so that people will enjoy surfing a well designed site. I don't sell anything or make any money off the site at all. Everything on there is free. I don't censor information and there's room for lots of information about lots of topics. So i've pretty much done all i can do by making the site, and i'm hoping that more people could help me to make it the place to send people to learn about 9/11.

Universal webportal

9/11=PNAC Plot
I too have realized that need and actually went to 100 of the most prominent sites, procured contact info, built a mailing list, set up a separate email account and emailed each of the webmasters, requesting them to consider uniting through a single sign -in portal.
I got few replies, most of them were abusive. 9/11truthny was the most insulting and belligerent, and Mr. oilempire just wanted off the list.
Carol Brouillett of deception dollar was the most eloquent.
But still in all, zip was the response.

My site had already been well under way, so I figured that I'd just promote mine instead. I've gotten 20,000 hits since August 25th, so I figure my work is getting out there. I have everyone listed there in the numerical list of 700+ stories by title, I have every petition I could find, and photographs to boot, which I have captioned myself.
Along the top right corner in an alphabetical list linking directly to several prime sites, this one is b, CLG is e etc.

Jeff Rense calls my site a " Massive database "
Karl Schwartz calls it " a virtual Library of Congress on 9/11 matters ",
and just yesterday,
Rick Siegal said " WOW ! ".( twice )

I have a link in the top right corner to a music page I built which may help cheer us all up sometimes, free handpicked oldies and such, online listening.

Rick Siegal ( #1 video of all- Eyewitness 9/11 ) has asked me if I have a search widget that he can post on his site 9/11 Researchers, ( letter c ) that will search mine, and we're still looking for it. You can find me if you go to my Surflinks page ( top right ).

The Plot page started because I was saving bookmarks, and wanted to share them with a client of mine, lo and behold, a government employee. That was before de-li-ci-ous. It kept growing because the cause is; well, unleavable.

For more information than you'll ever need on 9/11, go check my site. I'm not selling anything, I'm not asking for anything. The counter is only there because I wondered if anyone was even seeing it. They are. I guess my promotions are working.

From an office in a shipping container down by the harbor,
Peace Out.
Reverend Michael Valentine Goldsun

" Remember, Nixon never thought he'd be caught either"

Constructive criticism

A large database indeed ....... and all on 1 page! I could have sworn the lights dimmed when I clicked the link.

If you lost the pics and reduced the width of the page by 5 feet or so it would improve it immeasurably especially for those without broadband. Partisan commentary is a turn off aswell. Letting the dog see the rabbit is all thats required (or should that be rabbit see the dog?).

Well maybe you should show us YOUR site as an example

and instead of being a wise ass you might have something other than caustic remarks disguised as pertinent to anything.
Did you READ anything or just look for faults.
The object is not to coddle the feeble,that's why you didn't like it and dial up people are just sol too.
WHAT have you EVER contributed to

Allow me to retort

The most effective way to ensure people dont listen is insist they listen.

If your objective is to "not coddle the feeble" then you advocate bullying the feeble (whoever they are?).

Fear does not breed enlightenment. Presenting established fact in a way that lets the reader draw their own conclusion does.



If one single individual learns the truth by my posting of that link above I feel I have contributed more than you.

We are far better served by

We are far better served by those thousand sites than just one, especially if they break up further along specializations. Remember that a single site can be knocked out of service, hit by a lawsuit or hijacked by shills. Don't put your eggs in one basket.

In any case, I think the idea of creating several "so you've decided to learn the truth" intro sites would be greatly beneficial. Sending someone to 9/11 Blogger or the myriad of other sites meant for a large audience who know what is going on isn't too bad but I'd far rather have a place where a new person can get acquainted, then go on from there. There are intro sections on other sites but they aren't too robust. I don't really have the technical skills to make such a site now but I'm trying to learn.

The other thing we need is a few sites focusing on activism materials: flyers, instructions, ideas, case studies etc. Once again there are sections of sites (such as this one) that are fairly good but a detailed and expansive resource for organizing and expanding away from the Internet would be ideal.

Nico Haupt Causing Trouble

He's admitted in email that his intent is to harass the New York Group, and many of us have received strange messages both by email and regular mail. Who else is being bothered? Any insight as to his motivation?

I got a call last night...

From someone in the NY Group that says Nico is going "all out" in his attempt to disrupt, and slander the movement, people within it, and especially, the NY Group.

As far as his motivation, he is either:

  • Insane

  • A "Glory Hound"

  • Paid to do what he does

Those are your choices.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

option d

or option d) Supreme Troll Master (all of the above)

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Does Nico...

Have a job? How does he get money to live? That's something I'd like to know.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Working On It

Hopefully answers soon.

it is interesting to note:

..that Nico's newest website is registered and paid for by Rick Siegel. Rick Siegel is the guy who produced 911Eyewitness which attempts to blame helicopters for the collapse of the towers.

Siegel also registered many many other websites that carry Nico's content - and space beams research - and no planes research - and mini nukes research - and pods.

check out: 911researchers.com

it is LITERALLY a clearing house of EVERY illegitimate 911 website on the internet - including Nico and webfairy and serendipity and Judy Woods and Morgan Reynolds and Holmgren and holograms etc etc.

now - i seem to remember getting quite a bit of heat from NY911Truth for publicly criticizing your group for distributing Rick Siegel's DVD.


do you understand NOW why members such as myself and Nicholas Levis and Jules and Max from Truthmove were so concerned about your group's carelessness with distributing weak research.

in fact - for awhile the NY group picked up and distributed Nico's attacks upon me and Levis and Truthmove.


and now YOU find yourself on the receiving end of the disinfo crowd's propaganda? i see.

i am working on a new film to be released on 02/19/07 on this very subject. if you have anything you would like to submit demonstrating intimidation tactics and attacks originating from Nico and his circle of shills - please do so.

in this one subject i think we can agree - and i hope you now have some perspective on the issue.


Rick Siegel Nico's source of income?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002


btw - i was at this party last night when you called:


it was too loud to call back and i got home very late. but you can email me at my hotmail account of you have anything important to report.


Impotent, just wanted to see the movie. :)

Actually, Michael Wolsey wants you to be his guest. Like today.

How does Nico make money?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

he works for the CIA of course

pays really well - although it does not appear that he is taking advantage of their dental plan.

Nico is in the computer consulting business. i will not publicly release private information about his employment online.

but i will say that he worked previously for Pseudo.com, a big dot-com scam of the 90s that was rumored to be a front for drug distribution and money laundering and porn. it is interesting that the founder of Pseudo.com (Josh Harris) was caught with a heroin overdose fatality in his apartment - yet never was charged with a crime or an investigation.

anyhooo..... Pseudo went bankrupt, despite tens of millions of dollars of investor money that somehow amazingly disappeared into a network of shell corporations that did independent consulting for them. i was one of those consultants doing audio design and advertising. Nico was a consultant there as well. My wife was Josh Harris' personal assistant. (i might as well admit this since Nico will probably attempt to use it anyway) its small world.

you could say that, although my wife and i both worked in the same place as Nico we had very different jobs.

Josh Harris, btw, was the founder of Jupiter Communications - known as the private-sector CIA of Silicon Alley/Valley - and walked away with billions.

Harris later cried poverty when Pseudo went under. (wipes away tears of laughter)

Everyone, over the age of 30, involved with Pseudo knew something was deeply wrong with this company. They had no business model. They had no known sources of income. They just had parties. great parties - btw.

as you know, billions of dollars poured into the dot-com craze of the 1990s. it all collapsed with a very few key established mega-corporations absorbing what was left - and the idea of mom-and-pop internet success stories dying with it. its kinda like the history of Las Vegas. once Bugsy put it on the map it became a free-for-all of money and organized crime - and independent investors didn't stand a chance of competing.

No 'big tent' and no split: Its always been two movements.

Here's a response to this issue I posted to the TruthMove forum. I compiled the list of websites recommended at 911truth.org, taking out the summaries, and also present the list recommend at 911researchers.com.


My comments relate to the fact that the obvious divide between these two lists demonstrates no change in the past three years. There is little crossover in reference, and there never has been. My conclusion is that there is no split happening in the movement, but that there has always been a mutually supportive circle of those attempting to undermine our efforts, and that they have never really been a part of what we are trying to do.

And right now, at this moment, the forces of control are aligning like never before against the 9/11 truth movement. MSM attacks. Divisive infiltration. Intimidation. We have to keep our eye on the ball. Our premise is largely a legal one. A crime was committed, and we want to determine the criminal. In this pursuit the movement has established probable cause to suspect many forms of US complicity based on irrefutable documentary evidence, has exposed the long-running cover-up of the issue, and has determined the 'official story' to be entirely without basis or even logical consistency.

As John points out, we can't use slogans to identify our peers. We must look to their actions, their associates, and the things they produce.

Don't get distracted. We've got work to do.

International Truth Movement

where do you get these ideas?

I hardly think that the issue is as clear cut as one web site versus another defining the line between disinfo and legit research.

Disinfo has many faces. Some of them are the obvious Fetzer and Haupt clown faces. Then tehre are the "serious" faces, the ones who try to make a name for themselves by "exposing" the clowns.

As such, there is no sense in pretending that there is an authority that has any say over who is disinfo and who is not. I could very easily, for example, say that you are disinfo Jules because in your comment you only refer to "forms of US complicity" when you know very well that many in the truth movement consider the perps to be more international than all that, and that they simply worked with homegrown traitors in the US.

While it's certainly fun to bash Uncle Fetzer, Judy Jetson, and Nico, they are just the most obvious disinfo agents. The real controlling agents are not all that blatant--how could they control anything if they spout nonsense?

Everyone should just continue to push the research that they find most compelling, and not be afraid to disagree with anyone, even if those people then follow your posts and take snippy little cheap shots at you. That's in fact exactly how you know when you're hitting a disinfo nerve!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


its about networks

people working in concert with each other - regardless of their espoused beliefs.

for example - when the pod people support the hologram people you have a basic contradiction. which is it? the planes had a pod - or the plane was not real in the first place? yet - you have these two camps working IN CONCERT with each other. do they even care what the truth is?

Jules is correct in pointing out the mutually exclusive circles that these two camps move in. the websites are very effective in demonstrating this.

you on the other hand appear to be stating the obvious - while also stoking paranoia.

"Then tehre are the "serious" faces, the ones who try to make a name for themselves by "exposing" the clowns."

what exactly does THIS mean? sounds paranoid to me.

well - you have accused ME (as well as numerous others) of being shills for simply not agreeing with your opinions. and i might add that many of your opinions - such as the continual downplaying of anything Pakistan related - and the constant overplaying of anything Israel related - and your habbit of stating opinions as facts, such as stating that a large boeing did not hit the Pentagon - seems to contradict your own basic philosophy.

do we really want to start a witch hunt here? would you call David Ray Griffin and Barrie Zwicker and Paul Thompson from Cooperative Research and Jon Gold and Carol Broullet and myself and 911Truth.org all "shills" for promoting the Pakistan research?

Or are you claiming some sort of superior knowledge? should i call YOU a shill for bashing some of the most credible research of this movement? I never have - and i never will.

my work on this subject is NOT about creating a witchhunt - looking for those 'serious' faces who are secretly government agents.

i am more concerned about the big name activists who get themselves on TV and tour the country and get themselves on the radio and in newspapers - and discredit the objectives of this movement - while attacking ATTACKING ATTACKING. You may call these people "obvious clowns" (which they are) - but - they have also overplayed their hand and are now stuck with their losing hand. they are ripe for the picking. they WILL be exposed - and it WILL demonstrate that this movement has integrity when we do it.

well this is an improvement.

but still, there is a fatal flaw in your logic. one man's clown is another man's freedom fighter. Apparently, there seems to be a threshhold beyond which we all seem to agree that it's OK to let people have it--Fetzer and Nico are two examples. By consensus we all agree that there is no sense in "playing fair" with them. I don't hear you defending them based on their different OPINIONS, because presumably you don't think tehse are their honest opinions. Similarly, I do not think it is a matter of opinion whether or not AA77 hit the Pentagon. It is an unproven allegation that is not supported by the evidence. We could debate what the evdience seems to indicate, but instead, people just refer us to Jim Hoffman's website. Sound familiar? "You have to READ the space beam treatise by Judy Wood to understand!" Right. So anyway, you'll notice that I do not treat Jim Hoffman, or you for that matter, as people do Uncle Fetzer. It means something, you know, but it doesn't mean everything.

Anyway, I think everyone is perfectly capable of coming to their own conclusions and resisting crippling feelings of paranoia in the process. If they can't, maybe they should find a different hobby...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force



i have found debating semantics to be a waste of time.

some things are just self evident. people tend to wear their agendas on their shirtsleeves.

its amazing how many posts have been devoted towards 'debating' the semantics. it is a waste of time.

looking over your last few posts i do not see what you are even trying to express. all i see is a stirring of the pot - with some thinly veiled accusations and paranoia mixed in. it seems like a bait and switch type approach to stimulating endless debates about nothing.

the issue here is a very obvious one - and unless you really have some information and facts to share - i am unsure what you are exactly trying to accomplish.

He's trying to accomplish

He's trying to accomplish exactly what you said, that is he's trying to stir the pot or muddy the water.

Repeat, sorry.

See below


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - JFK

The 9/11 truth movement has been distracted by its myth makers. I was disagreeing with these people, and I will continue to do so, as you suggest, despite your 'snippy little cheap shots'. You presume that I am naive, as you did on the Israel thread, and then mis-characterize my comments.

I never suggested that movement infiltration could be summed up only by looking a conflicting websites. I presented the websites lists to show the networks of affiliation. This isn't just a bunch of different people doing it in their own unique way.

You say there is no authority in determining what is disinfo, and I was making the point that we need to all figure this out for ourselves. You are the authority.

I want a new investigation of the US government's role in 9/11 because that's my country, and it seems that we played a big role. I also want to know about everyone else involved as well.

I don't think its fun to bash people, except in a mutually accepted give and take. You said it, the most obvious disinfo agents, but you act like everyone knows this already? We can only out what's obvious while we are searching for that which is not. And I wasn't trying to bash them. I was trying to say that they are all on the same team, and its not mine.

Finally, no, everyone should not just continue to push the research they find most compelling if its not true or even likely. Back to JFK at the top. The 911 truth movement isn't about all our various opinions. We have our comfortable myths, provided by our all too welcome myth makers. People pushing myths and speaking for the 9/11 truth movement need to stop.

International Truth Movement

Show "Pssst...Real Truther is real" by misterguy

Hey, misterguy, do I know you?

You live in Portland, huh?

Do you think it's possible that people upvote his posts because they find them insightful if sometimes uncomfortably assumption-challenging? That some intelligent posters do not find his posts to be "dribble"?

Show "It would disturb me if" by misterguy

i gotta say casseia is right

i gotta say casseia is right on the money again. this is just me personally, and ive been here for a long ass time now,over a year easily, but as long as RT has been here i have yet to see him "deny" the holocaust. if he does, or if he happens to think the numbers were inflated he sure hasnt made this a priority of his here. also, and im not just saying this because a lot of our theories mesh and i happen to agree with him a lot, but i find RT to be pretty respectful and his comments thoughtful. but then im pretty sure you may have attacked me irrationally at some point as well. sorry in advance if im wrong on that.

Show "He denied the Holocaust" by misterguy

The point of saying where you're from...

You yourself have recently posted that you live in Portland. I am curious to know whether you are someone I am acquainted with off the board. No need for paranoia.

"Clearly you've mistook having your beliefs stridently echoed back at you for insight."

No, I haven't made that mistake at all. That kind of patronizing, derogatory tone just gives your reader one more reason to question your motives, by the way.

You go right ahead and

You go right ahead and question the motives of the guy who is trying to confront the Holocaust denier. I'm sure I'm the one who is suspicious and destructive.

By the way it's not patronizing to criticize someone, even to criticize someone harshly. However if, in the course of this conversation it becomes apparent that you agree with RT's methods and conclusions then I would have to be condscending to continue, that is I'd have to lower myself to really an obscene degree.

We're talking about a guy whose idea of truthing is to deny one of the most appalling crimes of the 20th century.

Denial versus inquiry.

So the historical event know as the Holocaust is simply off-limits to any kind of inquiry, is that what you're saying? Are you able to make a distinction between inquiry and "denial" in this area, or not? That's a simple question, and I'll go first: I make a distinction between inquiry, on the part of people for whom the Holocaust is a historical event like other unspeakably horrifying events -- say, 9/11 -- and "denial," or conscious, deliberate lying.

I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that you are using exactly the same rhetorical strategy as our friends from JREF and elsewhere. According to them, there is an established, correct narrative about the events of 9/11 which is outside the bounds of acceptable questioning. People who question this narrative have evil motivations that leave decent folk aghast. "9/11 deniers" hate the US, our government, pretend people didn't die, don't have sympathy for the families, are without tact, etc. The 9/11 narrative is a sacred cow, just as the Holocaust narrative is for some others. Saying that you or I want to "deny of of the most appalling crimes of the (21st) century" is a sentence that could -- probably has -- popped out of the mouth of pomeroo or Mark Roberts.

Remember, in that paragraph I was discussing rhetorical strategy, not drawing a parallel between the obviously factual bankruptcy of the 9/11 narrative and the factual basis for the commonly-accepted Holocaust narrative.

I no longer believe any historical event is a sacred cow, off-limits to any kind of inquiry. The reason is obvious: I have found that the establishment-sanctioned narrative of the MOST important historical event of my own lifetime is a complete fabrication. It would be idiotic and moreover ethically slip-shod for me to swallow whole any official narrative about any event on which world politics depend.

Moreover, I had the luxury of a really first-class college education and one of its greatest benefits to me, as I have discussed elsewhere, is a confidence in the scientific method as a means for arriving at the truth on hotly contested subjects pertaining to physical reality. Just as important is a confidence in the efficacy of open historical inquiry to arrive at an understanding of human events. What it comes down to is this, then: I don't see RT practicing "junk history" in a manner akin to the junk science of the space beamers, and you obviously do. We will not agree on this. The question is, can I continue to have a civil, reasonable discussion with you, or will you be insulting? If you're going to be insulting, then I obviously won't waste my time. And do me the courtesy of skipping any disingenuous inability to discern the difference between criticism/disagreement and insult.

Could not have said it better...

Thanks casseia

Best wishes

I am able to differentiate

I am able to differentiate between inquiry and denial. I'll give you an example. Norman Finkelstein who wrote the book "the Holocaust Industry" and who has spent a good deal of time discrediting various accounts of the Holocaust is not a Holocaust denier. He doesn't deny that there was Final Solution, that somewhere between 5-6 million Jews were exteriminated, and that there were extermination camps. Real Truther and his friend David Cole (who has renounced his former position) denies that the Holocaust as Holocaust occured.

I'll give you another example. Holocaust deniers like to blur the difference between real historical debate and their own ahistorical positions. The IHR (a Holocaust Denial group) suggests that those who deny that there was a State policy of genocide in Nazi Germany are merely functionalists.

"A lack of hard evidence for an extermination order by Hitler has contributed to a controversy that divides Holocaust historians into 'intentionalists' and 'functionalists.'"-IHR, What is Holocaust Denial

But in fact what divides 'intentionalist' from 'functionalist' historians is not their answer to the question of whether or not there was a State policy of genocide but whether Hitler had planned to institute such a policy when he came to power. The question that divides intentionalists from functionalists is "Was there a master plan on the part of Adolf Hitler to launch the Holocaust?"
and not "Did the Holocaust exist."

Everyone who denies the Holocaust wraps themselves in the cloak of revisionism. I'd ask you to look into Holocaust denial, how it works, and what the evidence is. You might compare the Institute for Historical Review with the Nizkor project for instance.

I'd also advise you to consider how it makes the 9/11 Truth movement look when those who advocate for a new investigation can't tell the difference between legitimate historical questions and pseudo-history, disinfo, and lies.

ZZZZZZZZ--Oops! Sorry, my

ZZZZZZZZ--Oops! Sorry, my browser took so long I've forgotten what I was going to say--

Oh yes! RT! "unabashed Holocaust denier." "Unabashed"? You must be reading the fake 911Blogger Nico put up in dz's name.

RT does get into what I would call bizzare misunderstandings with people--considering he writes quite intelligently. It makes me wonder if his English, while fluent, is not native--just enough for some sublties to get missed leading straight to drama-ville. But I do respect his independent thinking, and, while I have a few quibbles with his positions, I have never seen him write anything like "The Holocaust didn't happen".

He has writen words to the effect Zionists cynically use it to their own ends, which I agree with. But saying a group is using a tradgedy to advance themselves is worlds away from saying that tradgedy didn't happen in anyway whatsoever.

"Clearly you've mistook having your beliefs stridently echoed back at you for insight."

So, are you trying to say cassiea is an "unabashed holocaust denier", too? Tell yeh what--you want to kick the real thing, wait for Concrete Man to show up and have at him with my blessing.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

You say he's never written

You say he's never written that the Holocaust didn't happen, but I happen to have saved a post where he wrote exactly that.

Let's remember what the Holocaust actually was, shall we?

Here's a simple (condensed) definition from Brittanica:

Systematic state-sponsored killing of Jews and others by Nazi Germany and its collaborators during World War II.[...]As German armies moved into Poland, the Balkans, and the Soviet Union, special mobile killing units, the Einsatzgruppen, rounded up and killed Jews, Roma (Gypsies), communists, political leaders, and intellectuals. [...]By the end of the war, an estimated six million Jews and millions of others had been killed by Nazi Germany and its collaborators.

Now let's see if RT denies that the Holocaust occurred, shall we?

He says: "The numbers are inflated...the numbers have already had to be revised down. The managers of the Auschwitz memorial had to change a plaque because it overstated the number killed there by millions. That's simply a fact."

This is a bit of misdirection. The plaque in question is not used by historians to determine the 6 million figure.

He says: "They died in great numbers, mainly from disease. There were no "huge ovens" just regular crematoria."

Which is to say he denies the State policy of extermination and extermination both.

If you understand what the word Holocaust means then you'll see that he does, in fact, deny it. And he distorts the facts in order to fit his theory of Holocaust denial.

Saying numbers are inflated

Saying numbers are inflated IS NOT the same as saying there was no premeditated plan to kill a group of people.

The second quote you list is admittedly garbled--the crematria did not kill people; they were just used to dispose of the bodies. But what he says--people dying in great numbers, having regular crematoria IS NOT mutually exclusive from a systematic premeditated plan to murder masses of people.

And from the department of lets-not-over-emphasize-words-hysterically, the word "holocaust" actually means:

 holocaust-Middle English, from Old French holocauste, from Latin holocaustum, from Greek holocauston from neut. of holocaustos burnt whole(13th century)  1: a sacrifice consumed by fire.  2:  thorough destruction, especially by fire.  3:often cap: the genocidal slaughter of the Jews by the Nazi's during WWII.

 There is no need to capitolize it--the definition by itself includes absolute, deliberate destruction. I think one of RT objections is the cynical playing up of the Nazi genocide by Zionists when anyone tries to call them on their shite as if Jews were the only people ever in history to have a campaign of total genocide directed at them.  The  Amer-Indians given blankets infected with small pox by the Federal Troops might have something to say about this gory claim. 

I suspect what is most horrifying about the Holocaust to the bastards in charge of the world isn't that millions of people were systematically murdered--it's that millions of  Europeans, in modern times, systematically murdered other defensless Europeans.  That is not done--you save the genocide for the wogs and towelheads in your colonies on the other side of the globe.    The Powers that Be have to have some plausable deniability and openly slaughtering people on your doorstep who look like you does not help. 

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

He's denying the

He's denying the extermination camps existed. He's suggesting that there was no plan to exterminate the Jews. I'll quote it all to you. I don't understand why you want to stick up for this guy.

"Issue number 3: Not even revisionists deny that the Nazis rounded up Jewish people. They question whether places like Auschwitz were literally "extermination camps" where people were taken to be killed en masse. In fact they were taken there to work. They were considered prisoners of war and they were used as slave labor. Nothing nice about it. They died in great numbers, mainly from disease. There were no "huge ovens" just regular crematoria.

Issue number 4: Gas chambers were used to delouse clothing and other supplies--lice were a major problem as they spread typhoid, from which a large number of inmates did die. The gas chamber at Auschwitz has a peculiar history, as can be seen in the documentary by David Cole, who is himself"

How about you just give us

How about you just give us the link?

If it's in this comment's thread just say so--and I guess I'll comb throught it...

I was up late and I really don't want my tired eyes crossing more than I need to...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Show "If by "hitting a disinfo" by misterguy

That's something I'm looking

That's something I'm looking forward to seeing.

911 Researchers

Is linked to prominantly on the Scholars for 9/11 Truth Webpage. I feel bad because I used to visit ST911 pretty often, but not anymore.

I noticed those links at 911 researchers. Quite a dandy list of disinformation links if there ever was one.

I wonder why they don't link to any good websites like say--Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice?

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Rick Siegel

was appointed to the Scholars steering committee as well.

now - how do you explain that?

CLEARLY Fetzer executed a hostile takeover of Scholars and is seeking to introduce known disinformation to their agenda.

did you know he had WingTV linked on Scholars as well?

it is amazing to me that anyone can debate - with a straight face - whether this movement is being infiltrated.

He had WingTV...

Prominently displayed even though several "elders" of the movement contacted him to try and educate him about their practices. He didn't care.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

I fully support your film project

It is very important.

This is my favorite piece of disinformation by Judy Wood/Reynolds:

“[Steven Jones] fails to account for what molten aluminum looks like if heated to the same temperatures as molten iron (1538°C).

Just one small problem:  Maximum temperature of a jet fuel fire [as in the WTC] is 1000°C.

Aluminum melts at 660 °C, so it is very hard to get the temperature higher in a liquid state.

Read Frank Legge’s analysis of Wood and Reynolds “thermite hypothesis”:  

“This study shows that the paper by Wood and Reynolds is largely a collection of untrue, illogical, absurd and vexatious assertions and questions. While it contains some truths it appears to have been contrived to confuse rather than to illuminate. This suggests that its purpose is not to raise serious questions for debate but simply to destroy the credibility of Prof. Steven Jones. It has of course failed in this attempt.”

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Show "Your Hero Steven Jones is a Government Plant" by CB_Brooklyn

Exploding Thermite

“How many hours of labor would it take to cover every surface of the building, carefully avoiding detection by WTC office workers? In any event, thermite does not explode and pulverize. It cannot explain the data.”

With every question their vexatious nature becomes clearer. Note the words here: “thermite does not explode”. Jones has never said that it did. It is therefore not logical to ask this question. It is also extraordinarily absurd to say that explosives would be required to cover every surface of the building.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

I'm not following you here, Arabesque

ST911.org is now kaput -- a page directing you to your choice of new, post-ST911 pages (Fetzer's and Jones', to oversimplify.)

I simply meant that

when you visit the scholars for 9/11 truth homepage you can see a prominant the link to 911 researchers. Right on the top. I was responding to a previous post, which is why my message may have been unclear.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Okay, I see what you mean.

I had been thinking of that organization as sharing the name of its website -- 911scholars.org -- rather than having taken the name "Scholars of 9/11 Truth" with them when they went, as I see they have done. In fact, I don't see any advantage to participating in their use of the name. They are *not* the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" now, in the post-Fetzer-coup era -- they are a distinctly different group.

Pasted Text From The "Truthling" Blog

Here's a taste, John ( there's way, way more)-

"Let's put the facts as boldly and wide open on the table to analyse the current situation between ny911truth.org, 911truth.org and the 9/11 "truth" movement itself.

We're" doing this boldly because the purpose *IS* actually to indeed destabilize the top of this structure or to confuse and weaken the self-appointed leadership of this 9/11 "truth" movement.

It is done to minimize their "limited hangout" manipulations, their abusive power and to make sure that the leadership will not be replaced by similar elements.

I consider the 9/11 Truth Movement as a CULT."


i have been gettinga flood of emails with links to stuff like this. it appears that while the SURGE is not just limited to Iraq.

please stop padding your

please stop padding your comments with these 6 blank rows with periods in them, if there is some reason this is necessary please contact me.

Show "It's breaking my heart..." by Nicholas

sad but true

when david ray griffin spoke in NYC his presentation was interupted by a showing of excerpts of Rick Siegel's 911Eyewitness - and DVDs were passed out to the crowd.

we now know who Rick Siegel is. he supports Nico and the whole circus of disinfo websites.

have any lessons been learned here? anyone? anyone?

i also find it interesting to note that when several members of the new york group finally STOOD UP against this sort of careless distribution of GARBAGE literature - which NOW some people are speculating originates from the perps of 911 itself (sheesh) - we were accused of attempting a coup de tat against the NY movement - and emails were circulated accusing us of being AGENTS and SPIES.

have any lessons been learned here? anyone? anyone?

we were trying to protect the NY movement from the very same people who ATTACK YOU NOW.

have any lessons been learned here? anyone? anyone at all?

and when i release my film in NYC at the friggin Tribeca Film Festival in Robert DeNiro's own friggin private screening room - did the NY911Truth website promote it?


Rick Siegel - yes. John Albanese - no.

instead Tom Foti was busy circulating emails insinuating that my research was a Trojan Horse.

seen Nico's latest attacks against Foti? funny stuff.

Nicholas, I Control Nothing

And personally I've always valued your work. While I've felt I needed to add my voice in defense of certain souls, it's always been a source of great dissappointment about disputes in the past that affected all of our relationships. For we all have a simple and common goal.


So - can you arrange for me to give a lecture at St Marks Church on the subject of Disinformation in the Information Age?

The best defense if a strong offense - and we find this war forced upon us. I could video tape the lecture and we can get some decent circulation out of it.

No - i will not rehash the Criminal Politics Magazine imbroglio. that's be concession.

i feel that the more attention we pour on this problem the more neutralized they will become - but - by showing we are the targets of an organized disruption campaign we also demonstrate that the TRUTH ITSELF is being attacked.

i have been battling it out with the Columbus, Ohio chapter of 911 Truth and The World Can't Wait coalition. They are hosting Dr. Fetzer at an event in February. Thet refuse to see the light on this issue. You could say they are in the same place NY911TRuth was in a few years back. Well intentioned - but making a mistake.

i am flying to Columbus to attend and video document the event - and if possible confront Fetzer in person.

Lets at least agree on a common front on the issue of Fetzer, Siegel, Haupt, Holmgren, Woods, Reynolds - and the websites and groups that promote them.

Yes, Let's Let Bygones Be Bygones...

As I said, I control nothing, but I feel my opinions are respected by the others, and I will do my very best to work for that, John.

I know how you feel about the WCW folks. This time last year I attended many of their NYC meetings with the goal of getting them down the rabbit hole, with only limited success...

Best of luck on your Ohio trip, and with you on the common front!

Now see...

That's the way it should be.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

I second that.


Thanks for the positive attitude. I'm sorry to hear that things are chaotic over at St. Marks. I hope you guys can come up with some strategy for maintaining order. That venue is useless if everyone who shows up leaves thinking the movement is wacko, and sooner or later, if things don't get better, the church may shut it down. That may be what some of the disrupters are intending, so it may be now or never.

My recommendation, that I made SO MANY TIMES during my participation in the group, was that there be some explicit set of rules for the venue. Everyone who walks in should get a handout, every Sunday, which should be addressed at the beginning of each meeting. Then, you have established the authority to kick people out who violate those guideline.

Maybe those folks will appreciate the suggestion more from you. If there were some ground rules like that, I know I would feel more comfortable attending the meetings again.

And our condolences go out to everyone at NY911Truth who worked with Dan Wallace. Maybe this tragedy can help us find more unity of purpose.

International Truth Movement

Johann Adam Weishaupt - FOUNDER of the ILLUMINATI.

"With the help of Adolph Freiherr Knigge, on May 23, 1776 Weishaupt formed the "Order of Perfectibilists", which was later known as the Illuminati. He adopted the name of "Brother Spartacus" within the order. Though the Order was not egalitarian or democratic, its mission was to establish a New World Order, which meant the abolition of all monarchical governments and religions.

Weishaupt wrote: the ends justified the means. The actual character of the society was modeled on one of its traditionalist enemies, the jesuits, and was an elaborate network of spies and counter-spies. Each isolated cell of initiates reported to a superior, whom they did not know, a party structure that was effectively adopted by some later groups, including more recently by the early Ba'ath party in Syria and Iraq."


Just had to correct your 'mythology about the Illuminati' bullshit. I won't even touch the fact that you include loose change in with the likes of eyewitness, or plane site. That speaks for itself.

Thanks DZ

I am guilty of posting a few non 9/11 related items. I see now that the open thread are for those topic's.
This one is associated with Aaron Russo,and the Fed. A man named Ed Brown from New Hampshire is standing up to the IRS.He and his wife were found guilty of tax evasion.The appauling part is the judge would'nt allow past supreme court cases to be told to the jury,and did'nt allow him to bring in his own experts.
Please everyone go check out the story on prisonplanet.com,and e mail some support.Mr. Brown is held up at his home surround by federal agents,along with approxamatley 2500 supporters.
He has been quoted as saying show me the law & i will pay right now.
He also said he is willing to die so that all Americans know the truth.
He thinks they will invade his home as soon as
the support dies down.Here's the link.http://infowars.net/articles/january2007/250107Brown.htm
Thank you!
P.S......Please pray for Aaron Russo.He's having a hard time with his fight against his cancer.

C-SPAN's Washington Journal

This morning while I was watching C-SPAN they were mainly focusing on the Iraq war and the 'threat' from Iran. Two callers called in to say "9/11 was an inside job".

P.S. I hope 911 Blogger continues focus mainly of 9/11 and false flag related news. There are many other sites to discuss other new stories.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

Scared President!

While the entire town of Peoria was shut down yesterday for the Presidential visit.... the interstate was shut down along with all overpasses.... The President was enjoying Breakfast for over an hour.

People sat in their cars and waited..... commerce was halted.

He stopped at one of the biggest dive restaraunts in the whole town.... a very unsuspecting location.

What did the President have to eat?

DRY WHEAT TOAST..... was he not hungry? He didn't even eat that.
Scared of being poisoned?

Why did they even stop? if he wasn't hungry?

Perhaps they wanted to throw off any attempt at hitting him.

He seems pretty paranoid. He didn't give a public address.

This is the first time he has spoken outside a government or military installation in years.

This whole stupid town was standing outside in 0 degree temps for hours just to catch a glimpse of his motorcade.

He was impressed by all the people standing outside holding signs. Unfortunately they didn't mention what they said...and Georgie can't read so we're not sure if he got the message.

Ignorance is NOT Bliss


How long do you have to be registered to be able to vote posts up or down?

I have no vote function
Ignorance is NOT Bliss


look at the top left of your message. It's grey until you click on it.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

I've stood along the Bush

I've stood along the Bush cavalcade route twice holding my large "Expose The 9.11 Coverup" sign when he has visited Cincinnati. It was a very good feeling knowing that he or some members of his staff had to have seen it.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow


The responders have gotten $600 in donations just today.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Anyone have further info about Chip Burlingame's daughter, the

woman who had recently uprooted her life & moved to NJ & then died in suspicious apartment fire there. (Her dad Chip was one of the pilots of the airliner that purportedly struck the Pentagon.) Has her rather implausible death been swept under the rug?

Show "Can someone tell Jenny" by chippy

Why? According to your

Why? According to your post on JREF at this link:


Saying, in part:

>>> She left my journal, thankfully. She probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment of being exposed as a total lunatic.<<<

Yeah, chippy has some funny moments.

Listen up, sunshine: I left your journal because WE WON--admitted by default, but a win's a win. Since anonymous posts are now banned here, you and your mates can't troll without consequences. So I have NO REASON to return to your journal. Want to say something to me? Say it here--or on my blog:


And thank you for your contibution to the JREF Sceptical Roundtable!

Seriously though, let it go and GET OVER IT. You should be happy I'm gone. But, I must echo a question from one of your readers: if you weren't posting over here, then why did you register so soon after we banned anonymous posts? And I'm still waiting for that link where I supposedly tell you I'm a man--LMAO!

Love, get a bleeding life.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

This has to stop. Get

This has to stop. Get instant messenger and instant message me at fasthands26. I am so sick of your BULLSHIT! I am NOT the person you accuse me of, no matter what you say, and I WILL settle this once and for all. Stop dancing around like a lunatic, grow some balls, and actually talk to me.

Oh, and learn how to spell

Oh, and learn how to spell "skeptic" while you're at it.

I'll take my -500 points now, you bastards.

Why don't you acquaint yourself with British English

spelling conventions then, okay, bub?

I wouldn't want to interupt

I wouldn't want to interupt your bliss, chum. As you have said, you're glad I'm gone from your journal. I think we can both agree I was there long enough for you to know I've got stainless steel ovaries.

Oh, but you live in the "Mirror, Mirror" universe where I told you I was a man. Got that link yet?

I haven't checked my blog yet, but if you've posted there I'll be happy to discuss anything there. I'll even share my coconuts. Ahem--but only in an official capacity. Our lawyers would frown on anything else.

We won, you lost--GET OVER IT!

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

I'm sorry, what did I lose?

I'm sorry, what did I lose? And what did you win?

Wow, all I ask is for Jenny

Wow, all I ask is for Jenny to talk to me, and you give me -5 points.

laying the groundwork for war......

Would you be surprised if Iran aided an attack on U.S. troops in Iraq?
No 93%
Yes 7%
Total Votes: 25,640
Note on Poll Results

President Bush says he has no plans to invade Iran. Your reaction?
I don't believe him 47%
I believe him 31%
Not sure 22%
Total Votes: 25,828
Note on Poll Results

Iran is behind THIS in Iraq and Iran is behind THAT in Iraq and you "dont want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud" do you? who here is in the age range of 18-27 or whatever the draft ages are now? be prepared.



OK... there are no plans..... We totally believe you because you are like Honest Abe

Just so you know.... the Draft age has been elevated to include men up to the age of 39.

and if there is a draft..... it would have to include women as well

That should be interesting.
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

I absolutely agree women

I absolutely agree women should be included--the tests for physical capability will weed out the hapless, just like they do with the men.

Course I also absolutley believe in telling the draft board to go fuck themselves period---then run to Canada.

Actually, you want to run first, then insult later...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

"Don't ask, don't tell" appears to be on the way out

as well -- why in the world would they turn down well-qualified homosexuals who happen to be out? It would be sheer lunacy.

Alex Jones interviews Prof. Stephen Jones now...


"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

GCN archives with Jones on Jones is available for free today!

At least until Feb 1st, you can download any of the GCN archives, including Stephen Jones on Alex Jones

Simply go here

and go into the members area and enter

for the name and password.
Next go into the archive for Alex Jones and get today's show (or anything else)


All aspects of the truth are consistent

Aaron Russo on Alex Jones today

Alex Jones is scheduled to interview Aaron Russo in the next hour (see above URL)

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

New 7/7 info.

Daniel Obachike was on the lower deck of the Double Decker that blew up at Tavistock Square. He has written a book about his experience, and started a blog;

The book:

The blog:

"...That morning many good human values immediately came to the fore, amidst evil in one of its purest forms. I’d hurriedly left the death strewn by the blast in my wake but was befuddled by what I saw ahead of me. I stopped, turned round and was even more dumbfounded by what I saw. Strangely I found myself drawn back to the scene of the crime and meandering between the angels and agents in Tavistock Square headed back towards the bus.

The angels I refer to were the healthcare professionals and staff that were quickly on hand in such shocking circumstances, trying to do whatever they could despite initially being aghast at the dead pieces of human flesh and bodies littering the square. The agents on the other hand were conspicuous by the way they diligently adhered to their assigned tasks, proceeding busily, workman like almost as if they’d already displayed their grief and horror prior to the explosion. Apart from the obvious foot soldiers, (the blokes in blue) there were one or two more covert ones that stuck in my mind for differing reasons. Their cover was blown, not because of what they did, but because of what they didn’t do. Faced with such an unprecedented and horrendous event most reactions would come down to fight or flight. After my own flight and initial rage at all things and persons Transport For London (Bus drivers in particular), I turned to comfort a shocked victim showered with blood who had been walking alongside the bus at the time of the explosion. Those few who did neither were notable. They stood back, observing the events and activities in its entirety, positioned in the same spot.

The man with the hat was one such individual but his case is particularly intriguing when compared to the plain intelligence officers and foot soldiers I referred to. I was going to make a point of highlighting him in my forthcoming novel: The 4th Bomb, but editorial considerations meant his 15 minutes is surplus to requirement. My editor felt that whilst interesting the section on him ‘acted as a diversion’ to the storyline. The irony is, a part of me thinks that is what he was doing there that morning.

I present compelling evidence that the smartly dressed man in grey was fully aware of what was about to take place and was prepared to be part of the aftermath but got caught out because the bus blew up just a couple of meters into Tavistock Square while he was positioned 60 meters away further down from the blast. Images show the main force of the blast went backwards and one victim, a woman died because she crossed the road from the square behind the bus at the time of the explosion. So how can anyone 60 meters head of the bus to be hurled aside or sustain any kind of physical injuries. I knew his injuries were improvised, immediately putting 2 and 2 together when I saw his hat lying on the ground next to him. He wore a large bandage around his head and had a tear along one trouser leg that went neatly along the seam. The bandage 60 seconds after the blast. This was way too fast, long before any medical assistance had arrived..."

Here is an uncanny similarity, regarding the OKC bombing;

"...According to a local journalist who has investigated the bombing, [Dr.] Chumley was asked to bandage two federal agents who falsely claimed to have been trapped in the building [that] morning. Since the pair was obviously not hurt, Chumley refused. When the agents petitioned another doctor at the scene, Chumley intervened, threatening to report them..."

Booga, booga.


Alex Jones covered this stuff yesterday.

This story is looking like a hoax, Rep

I agree, after reading that

I agree, after reading that I think you’re right. I do like AJ, but the dude seems so desperate to make headway he’s clutching at straws all the time. First it was "LJ Chavez" and he attacked us lot for showing the fraud up with his fakeass papers. Then it's this Jewish man “clipping English Ivy and overhearing the 9/11 plot in Hebrew" - where's the hardcore proof this guy went to the FBI before 9/11 happened to tell them on record about what he heard? I want to see papers and I want to see interviews with FBI officials confirming that before I start to consider it credible it thanks Alex. Then we have this, now I know 7/7 is suspect as hell, we haven’t even had any whitewash investigation into yet, only a pathetic "narrative timeline of events". But this shit, especially after reading that guy's analysis you posted Stallion, just doesn’t smell right at all. Yet again though Alex is all over it, he says he's trying to vet it but why can't he see how blatantly f*cked it looks. Someone needs to send him that analysis.

David Cameron answers second question on 911: Press for Truth

Says he hasn’t watch the whole thing but is aware there is a concern about 9/11, thinks "911: Press for Truth" while not mentioning "conspiracy" contains "one sided arguments" and it is his "strong belief" that a real investigation isn’t needed.

If anyone wants to keep the pressure on here's another blog that needs voting up;


Can't watch @ work

Did he say "Real Investigation"

Ignorance is NOT Bliss

No I think what he said was

No he said "new investigation", I put the "real investigation" in there because that's what we need and that's what this sell-out doesn’t get.

England's getting theirs

The TRUTH has crossed the pond

I'm not worried

Should we be surprised that Cameron is a stooge?

He didn't even watch the whole film

Time for him to see the first 15 minutes of "9/11 Mysteries"

Ignorance is NOT Bliss

One sided arguments...

Like the ones portrayed in United 93, World Trade Center, Path To 9/11, the 9/11 Commission's Report, the Joint Congressional Inquiry, and every single "hit piece" that has come out against us?

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Exactly, the guys talking

Exactly, the guys talking raw shit.

FYI, may be worth checking

FYI, may be worth checking out woot today:

$99 for an 8" dvd player with divx playback.. should be good for some street activism..

Show "Tactics" by nlight

actually, your repeating

actually, your repeating what you already said almost word for word so i might as well just copy and paste my response to your blog(which was originally a response to someone else but fit as an answer to your blog):

wont gain any converts? i'll just copy and paste my message from another thread, as it seems to fit here as well:

ive heard many people say this. In Plane Site gets bashed more than Loose Change 2 around here, and yet ive found that it has opened more eyes than any other 9/11 video except for Loose Change 2. funny how that works out. obviously In Plane Site has some questionable info in it but that doesnt mean it hasnt opened many eyes. it most certaintly has. so fuck the micromanagers who get pissed whenever Pentagon questions or CD is put front and center. your arguments have no facts to back them up. the pentagon theories and CD theories have done more good for the movement than harm. that is an indisputable fact. yet some people still get all pissed when others lead with CD or the pentagon. anyone remember the Pentagon flash video and the huge impact it had before LC2E came out? think it would have had the same impact if it only focused on the ISI connection? USE ALL EVIDENCE. thats all my point is. im not talking CGI or mini nukes here, im no fool, i know what it would look like leading with that even if their was good evidence to back it up(there isnt in my opinion). the pentagon and CD theories are not on the same level as those things. the pentagon and CD theories have been proven to be effective in changing minds and opening eyes. thats why i find it so ridiculous when people around here get all bent out of shape when these things are mentioned.

and yeah, lets NOT mention PNAC, that makes perfect sense..............(huh? the one part of 9/11 that liberal gatekeepers are NOT afraid to speak about? you want us to ignore that?)

we cant limit ourselves like that. we should press on all fronts. i find it disturbing that some people are urging us to limit our activism and play it "safe" when the proof shows how effective the pentagon and CD have been in opening eyes. i for one will not only talk about the Pakistan(aka-the fall guy) connection. i will talk about CD, i will talk about the ISI, i will talk about Israel, i will talk about Saudi Arabia, i will talk about put options,i will talk about wargames, i will talk about warnings and executive orders and i will talk about the Pentagon. why not rally around the victims families while asking ALL the questions that need to be asked and putting forward all evidence? it really shouldnt be a question of either or. some evidence works for one guy and doesnt work for the next. show that guy something different about 9/11 and that might be the hook that opens his eyes.

we should take our cues from daily Kos!!

C'mon Chris, that guy and his 500 loyal readers have it going ON. If we tailor our message to satisfy folks like Mia Dolan and Hungry Hippo, and Mad Liberal Granny, we'll do so much better than we have until now! Yeah, that's the ticket! What's good for the gatekeepers is good for us! And great for America! Woo hoo!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


HA! Mia Dolan, that name

HA! Mia Dolan, that name brings back memories. she works hard for her money for sure. and very good point of course, tailoring our message to satisfy scumbags like that is insanity. that seems to be a pretty constant theme from those that want us to play it "safe" though. they say -"but "they" will us it against us!". well fuck "them". "they" only want us to go away and would attack us with anything we choose to use.


Clean Break's chutzpah-rich love-child won't help you, because it's in plain sight. Using the term neocon in the wrong context is anti-semitism.

If we divide people into 2 groups : those who want to know the truth and those who don't. Well, I would guess that all those in the first group are already on board and except for New York itself they are in a distinct minority. So the question for me is how do you present the case to the second group in a way that they can't evade ?

No point preaching to the choir with esoteric points of physics when their experts outnumber yours by hundreds to one.

nlight-"Using the term

nlight-"Using the term neocon in the wrong context is anti-semitism."

WHAT? how do you figure? looks like our argument is done, i didnt realize i was arguing with an AIPAC/ADL soldier. and again, you are clueless and unrealistic if you think the CD theories have not opened many eyes. i see right through you buddy, so do most here.

Loose Change 2 v 911pressfortruth

Do you honestly believe that LC2 does a better job than 911p4t ?

I think infiltrators would be canvassing for something a lot wilder than 911p4t. Cameron was unable to call it a conspiracy vid. He said it was one-sided. Just the sort of smooth evasion I'd expect.

yep. i cant tell you how

yep. i cant tell you how many times ive been told by someone that LC2E has caused them to seriously question 9/11 or even become a 9/11 activist themselves. i can count on one hand how many times that has happened with PFT. both are good, this is just my personal experience. i would say its because LC2E has more evidence and is more direct. like i said, some evidence grabs one guy that wont grab the next. you seem to care WAY too much about what a scumbag like Cameron says/thinks. he was unable to call it a conspiracy vid, wow. what does that mean? he still didnt answer shit. please stop worrying about what corporate shills like Cameron think. thats your first mistake. you got a smooth evasion from PFT. mission accomplished huh? do you always try and appease shills? is that your first objective? personally, mine is causing people to doubt the official story of 9/11. LC2E has served me well in that respect. this is about activism, not appeasing douchebags like David Cameron or Fox News or whoever else.


..would have ridiculed LC2. It's not a question of appeasing, more a question of not giving the deniers an easy way out. The fact that Cameron has been forced to admit it's not a conspiracy vid. makes it acceptable for others to comment on its contents without them being told their tinfoil must have fallen off.

Remember that Michael Meacher the only Brit MP to have raised the issue is routinely pilloried for his views. At the time, he and von Bulow were the only public figures to speak out.

Time for a General Boycott?

The idea has been brought up before. No movies, no ice cream, no vacation travel, basically no luxuries until the House impeaches. If everyone who opposed the Iraq occupation participated, congress would notice. Best of all, it wouldn't take any extra time. What do you think?

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

On it

For the past 6 months.

Still have cable and internet.... that's it.

Bought my family silver for X-mas

Americans would never buy into a true boycott

Unless everyone did it.... it would only affect the little guy

Stop shopping at Wal-Mart... support your local businesses and restaraunts... no to fast food... buy American MAde Products.... don't use credit cards if possible.... pay those things off and really make them mad

Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Loose Change v 911pressfortruth

So do you think Loose Change does a better job than 911pressfortruth ?

Can you give reasons ?

Sorry wrong thread.

Steps to Mainstream media.

The reason it is important for us to blog on sites like Crooks&Liars, DKos, AirAmerica, and even Democrats.org, is because those are the next logical step to find people who are willing to open their minds up to this government corruption. I started over at C&L and ended up here! I wouldn't have come here if I hadn't seen it on C&L etc. We know the MSM isn't hearing our noise, but if we can be smart enough not to get edited while getting some points out there, then we might convert a few and open up the blogs a bit. I have gotten edited at C&L numerous times, but I've taken the tack now of saying how outraged I am that Osama and a few of his followers were able to penetrate our defense system. I just point out my disbelief and anger at how the official story says things went on that day. Anyway. That's my opinion.

Aaron Russo's Documentary.

We can also post Aaron Russo's documentary "America: Freedom to Fascism" at most of these blogs who won't let us post 9/11 stuff. That is a good start to get people to open up to the reality of what occurred on nine eleven. Here is the link to view or to pass...


It sure caught my attention.

What's going on at google!?

Just scan the top 100 vids & prepare for a shock... or a few.


At the time I posted this. (Just in case)

#3. Loose Change 2nd Edition Recut

#4. America Freedom to Fascism Authorized version

#11. TerrorStorm (911, London, Madrid Bombings, Conspiracy)

#15. 9/11 Mysteries (Full Length, High Quality)


Could this be a post Peace March fallout?

That would be awesome!... would be indication of a tidal wave of information...... I checked it yesterday and LCII was at 63!

Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Hundreds of thousands

may want to find out why they were described as tens of thousands.

Truthers Everywhere That Day

At least 2,500 DVDs were handed out that day, as well as many thousands of "Deception Dollars". And there were at least 3 tables with 9/11 related materials offered, too. There was no way we could be missed.


Google decided to be honest for a day to see if anyone would notice
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Freedom to Fascism's been getting a LOT of airtime...

lately on the AM talk/news shows, in the context of the Ed Brown IRS standoff discussions, also.

Tax time... where's YOUR money going? Nothing wakes (most) people up faster than hitting em' in the wallet.

Paula Zahn Video??? TRUTH=RACIST

Can someone find the Puala Zahn (CNN)Video I believe from yesterday. I heard some of it played on the Alex Jones Radio today and it appears the new strategy to stop the spread of TRUTH is to label everyone involved (as we are) as RACIST.
I cannot locate the video.

We must be the change we wish to see in the world. M Gandhi

Here is the hideous transcript

We have all heard some absolutely incredible 9/11 conspiracy theories. The web of course is full of them. But tonight we're bringing one out that feeds on racism out in the open. We were absolutely shocked by one recent poll that found out that one in every three Americans believe the terror attacks were not the work of America's enemies, but some sort of inside job. And Deborah Feyerick found a smaller percentage who believe an even uglier theory.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This 9/11 attack was not by 19 Arabs. It was not by Muslims.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They talk about a Jewish plot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everywhere you look you find a Zionist agent.

FEYERICK: A conspiracy by Zionist Israeli intelligence or by Zionist moles in the Bush administration allegedly calling the shots in the Middle East. Websites, magazines, documentaries, radio programs, dozens of them disputing the fact that al Qaeda was behind the 9/11 attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was done by a group of Zionists.

FEYERICK: Are you suggesting that al Qaeda had nothing to do with it, that this was all part of a large conspiracy, Zionist or otherwise?

CHRISTOPHER BOLLYN, WRITER: Al Qaeda is in my opinion -- has been exploited. I question whether such a group even exists.

FEYERICK: Chicago writer Christopher Bollyn is one of the conspiracy theorists.

BOLLYN: I believe that there are Israeli elements that are connected to the Mossad, that are involved in this attack.

FEYERICK: There's no physical evidence to support claims that Jews were behind 9/11, but the speculation and rumors, mostly discounted here in the U.S., have gained momentum in Muslim countries where they're discussed and believed. Deborah Lauder is with the Jewish run Anti-Defamation League.

DEBORAH LAUTER, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: What's most puzzling is when it reaches the Internet and goes into the Muslim-Arab world, we have this cross-fertilization of hate and this is something we've never seen before.

FEYERICK: A whole web of beliefs has grown to support this conspiracy theory. Listen to these Americans interviewed on Iranian television.

VOICE OF ERIC HUFSCHMID: This is a big plot to take control of us, to start war.

FEYERICK: One of the beliefs is that some 4,000 Israelis or Jews in the New York City area were warned by instant messages not to go to work on 9/11. For Wilton Sekzer, a retired police sergeant who is Jewish, the claim is outrageous.

WILTON SEKZER, FATHER OF WTC 9/11 VICTIM: The remains consistent of a piece of bone two and a half inches long and about an inch long, about the size of your index finger.

FEYERICK: And that's all they ever found?

SEKZER: That's all they ever found.

FEYERICK: Sekzer's son Jason died in the towers. He says Jason received no warning. Neither did some 400 Jews who died in the tragedy.

SEKZER: Give me the names of the 4,000 Jews who stayed home. Show me something. There is nothing to show. This is a total, ridiculous, asinine rumor that was started by anti-Semites.

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: I think the conspiracy theories in general really do work a bit like a game of telephone. They are told and retold and tend to get more and more far out in the telling.

FEYERICK: When you imply that somehow Israelis were involved in the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, people are going to look at you, critics will say you are an anti-Semite. Are you?

BOLLYN: No, I'm not an anti-Semite. This is the main charge that's leveled against me and has been for years, even before 9/11, because I am a critic of Zionist policies.

LAUTER: That's a very common technique among anti-Semites. They will twist things. I'm not an anti-Semite. I just believe XYZ.

FEYERICK: Anti-Semitic or not, the question now, will this 9/11 conspiracy theory become like the Kennedy assassination, analyzed for generations as an unsolved mystery? Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.


ZAHN: Time to check with our out in the open panel. I'm sure they have plenty to say about this. Lauren, Michael, Deroy, welcome back. All right. So let's start with the resident Jew on our panel here. You hear this stuff and it just makes you sick to your stomach. There is absolutely no evidence that anybody, other than al Qaeda, was involved with this attack. How upsetting is this to you?

GROSS: Look, we've been kicked around for 2,000 years. The face you're looking at has got a lot of anger in it because of that. That's not a way to live, wandering around the globe never having a home. It's pretty difficult because every time there's trouble, we're scapegoated. We're not the only ones that are scapegoated, but we're scapegoated by people who are frightened. They don't care. They are paranoid. You can't debunk this theory. It's madness as well as idiocy to think that the Jews brought down the World Trade Center on 9/11, but you cannot argue logic to someone who is mentally ill. What frightens me is that the whole nation is frightened and that fear is being fueled by this administration and by the media -- not you, just the opposite. I congratulate you and I'm grateful for you seriously, to bring this stuff out, because it is in those times that Jews like other minorities better get scared, better get angry, better fight for what's right and try and convince people courage is the cure for paranoia, not racism.

ZAHN: Is this just a smear campaign for anti-Semites?

MURDOCK: I agree with Michael. The blame the Jews theme is something that goes back about 2,000 years. It's a really hardy varietal. But look, I mean we know who pulled off 9/11. Richard Minard (ph) writes about it in his book, the disinformation. He quotes directly from Osama bin Laden who says on a tape we found, we calculated an advanced the number of casualties from the enemy who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day, unquote, says Osama bin Laden himself.


LAKE: We have a government that has led us into a war and most Americans, even the smartest of us, sit around and go why, again, are we here in the war? When there are blanks, we often fill in the blanks and those blanks are filled in by misinformation, urban legends. We create stories and people believe things.

ZAHN: You're talking about a very unpopular war. We're talking about 9/11.

LAKE: What I'm talking about is the war is based upon what our government told us, this fear that we have from 9/11.

GROSS: This will get worse as the unrest in the Middle East gets worse. This problem will not go away. The reason it wasn't go away is because we don't have an administration as we once did that said and counseled us, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. We have just the opposite. We have an administration that fuels fear, that puts up the sign every day that tells us be frightened, stay scared, be worried, and so we are suspicious. We are xenophobic and we don't like anybody that's different from us.

ZAHN: How concerned are you that these conspiracy theories will take even deeper hold?

MURDOCK: Look, I think it's entirely possible. The kind of people who are spreading this sort of stuff will continue to blame the Jews for anything that can go wrong. I think it's very important as this war on terror continues to point out exactly who the bad guys are which are Islamo-fascists who want you, you, you and me dead and want people dead around the country and they're engaged in tremendous violence, killing thousands all around the world starting even before 9/11. The '93 attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. This is a really serious enemy and we need to identify it and we need to educate people.


LAKE: That's my point. There are reasons why people are open to belief theories and these reasons will not change unless our government more actively works to inform us of what the real truth is so people are not just playing guessing games.

ZAHN: Lauren Lake, Michael Gross, Deroy Murdock, fascinating discussion. Your anger was palpable during that piece as well. Well understood.

Larry king live is coming up just in a few minutes. Hey Larry. You're going to talk to the owners of Barbaro tonight?

LARRY KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, who wouldn't be angry with that last story?

ZAHN: I know. I know, but it's astonishing, wasn't it, the statistic that one in three Americans believe not that particular conspiracy theory, but one of many?

KING: The old Goebbels theory, you tell a lie long enough, more people will believe it. We've got an exclusive coming up, race horse Barbaro's owners and his doctor, their first interview since the champion was put to death yesterday. Plus Jack Hanna and animal right activist Bo Derek on whether racing pushes horses too far. And the latest on that woman convicted today of murdering her Marine husband with poison. All that at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific immediately following the lovely, talented, exquisite Paula Zahn.

ZAHN: Thank you Larry, you didn't have to say that.

We must be the change we wish to see in the world. M Gandhi

KING: The old Goebbels

KING: The old Goebbels theory, you tell a lie long enough, more people will believe it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. oh boy, the irony in that statement. old Larry doesnt realize how true that statement is. too bad he has his lies mixed up.

A NEW POLL? Anyone?

A NEW POLL? Anyone?

Hello Everyone, here is an idea. We can commission a new poll on how many are aware of the TRUTH. The last (Scripps) made a lot of waves and those waves keep reverberating. Our numbers have grown since then (Oct.). Several groups could collect towards paying and there is ample talent and know-how among us to get this done. Any thoughts on this? Is this an idea to spread around? Besides the obvious boost this would provide we could also assess our growth and rate.

We must be the change we wish to see in the world. M Gandhi

Show "911blogger has been" by misterguy

Why did you vote this down?

Just wondering if anyone would like to specifically clarify why they feel that this post is negative.

Show "I find it pretty revealing" by misterguy

misterguy, do you even believe 9/11 was not the work of al Qaeda

I honestly wonder what your purpose is here. You don't talk about the truth about 9/11, you just complain that everyone here is anti-semitic, that we deny the holocaust (as you call it, because we do not necessarily accept on faith what we've been told about it) It seems you are vaguely schizophrenic when it comes to revisionism. You are presumably here because you believe in the need to revise the mainstream account of 9/11, but you accuse anyone of wanting to revise the history of Nazi crimes against Jews as being motivated purely by hate, without any basis whatsoever for your very serious accusation.

I have very patiently tried to present my position, noting for example the influence on my thinking of the documentary on Auschwitz produced by David Cole, who is Jewish, and whom you simply dismiss as a holocaust denier without actually explaining what problem you have with his work. Your groundless objections speak volumes--you simply do not want anyone to consider what revisionists have to say. Period. Everyone should just trust you like they are told to trust the 9/11 Commission.

Again, I urge you and Jules to articulate in your own words specifically what you think David Cole gets wrong in his documentary. Providing links to oilempire, which is disinfo linked to the revolutionary "communist" party (quotes mine) simply doesn't cut it.

If this issue is so blatantly simple to understand, why can't you just put into words a coherent argument for why people should not look into it for themselves? Do you realize how much mistrust you yourself are breeding? How much your hysteria makes people wonder what exactly you are so afraid of people finding out? I go out of my way to make clear that when average people are lied to and manipulated, we cannot hold them responsible for the crimes of those doing the lying and manipulating. I've made it clear that even if the holocaust was exagerrated to gain support for the Zionist project that the Nazis indeed commited atrocious acts against europes Jews, and that Jewish people are not responsible for the actions of corrupt elite Zionists like those who collaborated with Hitler.

Our entire point is that those people who CNN wants Jews to believe are leaders with their interests at heart are nothing of the kind and never have been. If Zionists or the Israeli government cared so much about Jews, why have they slashed welfare spending in favor of destructive and antagonizing military aggression?

Why don't holocaust survivors get more than a tiny fraction of all the reparations collected by Zionist groups on their behalf?

Why did Zionists refuse to allow Jewish refugees to go to England or America, so that they could be sent instead to the front lines in Palestine to help them fulfill their political ambitions?

Why are they being lied to about 9/11, being told that again the Jews' worst enemies, the Muslims, are out to kill innocents? And encouraged to deny what we know to be true--that their "enemies" are INNOCENT? Is this manipulation good for Jews? Are comforting but ultimately debilitating lies good for people?

Your methods are morally reprehensible and your agenda bankrupt. Your intention is to divide Jew from non-Jew by sowing distrust and suspicion, just as CNN does by completely misrepresenting the issue of 9/11 truth vis a vis Jews.

Guess what though? You are losing and all manner of righteous Jews like righteous Christians and righteous atheists are wising up to the way this game is played. If you think that we here are racists go ahead and let your accusations fly--reasonable people will listen to what we say and are perfectly capable of evaluating your position and ours.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


Show "See this where you and I are" by misterguy

Downrating of sensible comment

A valid warning in my opinion. I'm new here, but already suspicious of what I'm seeing.

"The 9/11 truth movement

"The 9/11 truth movement should not be co-opted by those who want to pretend that one of the greatest crimes in history was oversold by Jews in order to justify a land grab in Palestine."

So, if you believe Zionists used a horrific event to justify a land grab, that means you don't believe the horrific event happened?

If a rich relative of mine is murdered, and I take advatage of the power vacum to get more of her wealth, the person who calls me on this doesn't believe a murder happened?

Your logic on this leaves something to be desired. I suppose the next thing you'll conclude is anyone who says 9/11 is being used as an excuse for US global hegomeny is ALSO saying 9/11 never happened.

All sorts of bastards use real tradgedy to advance their causes--but according to your logic we can never call them to account without denying the tradgedy they're using.

That's daft.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Cartoon/video: Make Mine Freedom

Link on Google Video

A cartoon produced by Harding College called "Make Mine Freedom," a decades old echo back to a time when understanding liberty was second nature to Americans. I think people of all nationalities can take something good away from this also. And I swear that sounds like the British national anthem in the intro.

Molly Ivins dies of cancer at 62

AUSTIN, Texas - Best-selling author and columnist Molly Ivins, the sharp-witted liberal who skewered the political establishment and referred to President Bush as "Shrub," died Wednesday after a long battle with breast cancer. She was 62.


Very sad news. One of the great liberal voices is gone.

Who to believe?

Anyone heard of Margie Schoedinger?

I hadnt. But it wasnt on the news so it couldnt have happened and anway, they'd a war on terror to think about.

Disturbing story.


New comedy act

I was working on my new comedy act and I wanted to test this one out... it's my "Ann Coulter Chant"

Ann Coulter
She's our man
If she can't do it

*I was going to shout that last part*
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Any truth to the rumor she.....

....has prostate cancer....?

Hmmmm,....probably not.....scurrilously unfounded, I'm sure....

I do find credence in that she is milking her vicious, virulent and vitriolic smears of the Jersey Girls in hopes of getting that vaunted Playboy spread she so obviously so desperately covets.


You meant PlayGIRL right?
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Very sad...

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002



God-damn-it. Anyone else

God-damn-it. Anyone else wonder if the bastards are keeping these guys quite by holding their health benefit ransom?

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.


They are letting our heros die a slow and excrushiating death.

You'd think that if they had something to say then they'd say it.... it's not like they are currently being taken care of and if they talk they would cut it off.
Ignorance is NOT Bliss