Eric D. Williams: 9/11 Accountability Conference Director and Holocaust Revisionist!?

Sorry if you find this "divisive," but I think it's an important issue, and one that seems to not have been addressed by the movement.

Does anyone else find it a little disconcerting that the director of the this conference has a new book of Holocaust revisionism called "The Puzzle of Auschwitz?" His prior books were on 9/11, fascism, the matrix, etc., yet his latest release is on a topic that can taint anything connected to it. Even if the information is accurate, it is not a subject or association that is going to advance our cause.

So how did this happen? Someone should have taken issue with this and at the very least asked Williams to play a less visible roll.

Williams' site:

Sorry to point you to Screw Loose Change, but you can see how this might be something the "skeptics" and "debunkers" could use against us very effectively.

A post on TruthMove about this:

I am removing this conference from the TruthMove events page because of this.


Reading some of his book reviews...

He sounds a bit like David Icke...


I really love this book. It's got a bit of everything: JFK, 9/11, The Merovingians, The Da Vinci Code, The Matrix, Aliens, Media Manipulation, The Bohemian Club, the New Age, and a whole lot of sarcasm. It has it all! It begins with Eric's theories of history, and that our leaders have been chosen by a governing "Illuminati" and then runs through various conspiracy `theories' right up to the present day, using the Matrix movies as the glue and center point to follow on this road. And if that isn't enough, Eric looks at the world from a new perspective and helps introduce new theories on how to change the world, as Neo changed his Matrix


In his sophomore effort, Eric D. Williams attempts to connect the puzzle pieces of various conspiracy theories onto one common thread.
By following this thread, he tries to expose the agenda of propaganda and manipulation for the last hundreds of years at the highest levels held together through secret societies throughout various governments.
His theories extend from the likes of Holy Blood Holly Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, & Henry Lincoln and The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown, with the Warner Bros. Matrix trilogy.
Through this book we see a lot of Mr. Williams' ideas laid out, but he tends to drift from one subject to another, trying to show the connections between them, and sometimes he forgets to finish his initial thoughts.


I don't know enough about him to really say, but this conference could do with someone like Mike Berger and someone else similar in knowledge acting as host speakers, maybe Dave Ray Griffin.

Just my two pennies, best wishes

Has Eric Williams pulled a bait-and-switch?

Related thread at DU 9/11:

This is Eric D. Williams's site: /

It promotes his books, the most recent being "The Puzzle of Auschwitz" (2006).

Whois says the site was registered a while ago:

Domain Name..........
Creation Date........ 2005-07-15
Registration Date.... 2005-07-15
Expiry Date.......... 2007-07-15
Organisation Name.... Eric Williams

I looked for older versions on (which mirrors prior versions of websites) but it returns nothing.

Anyone know when the Auschwitz book was first posted? Is it possible this guy organized the conference first, before announcing his book? Did anyone notice this "work" before the Screw Loosers discovered it on Jan 14?

The sample pages from the two 9/11 books are pretty lousy. A mix of the thrice-chewed, the credible-but-incompetently presented, and the flat wrong (Marvin Bush once again starring as Chief of Security, plus some stuff about a beam weapons technology shared with Israel that's instantly therefore the only possibility for what blew up the Towers, etc.). The kind of thing that a lot of people in the movement who know much better have been tolerating all along in the name of unity against the deadly foe, blah blah.

But the question does arise of whether he pulled the Auschwitz trick out after getting the conference going.

By the way, this is no blanket excuse. Plenty of the participants have brains enough to be able to figure out when the "organizer" is engaging in spotty thinking (and butchering the language with one malapropism after the next) even if he had not yet been public about Auschwitz.

All in all a cluster f*ck.

This is a set up watch out

First Hufschmid comes out as a "holocaust truthseeker" an obvious attempt to discredit 9-11 dissenters. He is linked to Rupert Murdoch through marriage, Then James Brolin tells people to watch 911Mysteries, they do and find this site Screw911Mysteries which tells them Hufschmid is a holocaust denier! David Lynch is ALSO linked to Murdoch through his production company. so is David Shayler ; he appeared on Sky News which is OWNED by Hufschmids sister's husband James Murdoch. Now we have Kevin Barrett. DO NOT TRUST ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. Think for yourselves.
The OCT has been just waiting for this opportunity.

I wouldn't worry about it

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you were to say there were five and half million jews killed in the holocaust as opposed to six million jews killed, you be labeled an anti-semite and a holocaust denier. There is a major campaign which has been underway for quite some time lead by zionists. They've been getting away with murder since WWII hiding under the cover of Judaism, perporting that any criticism of their group of murderers, who claim to be Jews, warrants an anti-semite label. But the entire anti-semitism scare on a global basis is pretty much over. Yes, there exists lots of people who hate the Jews, but there are lots of people who hate all sorts of people. The days of specialized treatment are over. If you are looking for a real holocaust, just visit parts of Africa today and you'll find millions being killed and starved to death, millions. Funny how that group of people don't have a Museum in their memory.

"If you were to say there

"If you were to say there were five and half million jews killed in the holocaust as opposed to six million jews killed, you be labeled an anti-semite and a holocaust denier."

That's not true. Most respectable historians agree that the number is somewhere between 5-6 million killed.

What is true is that critics of Israel are smeared with the anti-semite label all the time. What is also true is that if you are a critic of Israel it's best to steer clear of real anti-semites.

Not to be ignored

Delver isn't being divisive at all. Writing books about Holocaust revisionism certainly is.

In fairness to everyone involved, its important to note that Eric Williams may have just announced his new book, and people have not yet had the opportunity to respond. The way he set himself up in the movement, writing books about the subject, certainly made him look legit.

But now we find out otherwise. As Delver points out, this has nothing to do with specific facts about the holocaust, and everything to do with why someone would pursue this topic. Ask yourself who will buy this book? Who does it appeal to?

Not me. And I would hope not many people in this movement.

We must not let this slide. Bigots for 9/11 truth are just like any other bigots. Naive, confused, and scared.

Oh, and here's a link to Eric Williams favorite author.

International Truth Movement

Ad hominen. To be

Ad hominen. To be ignored.

This issue 9-11 has nothing to with any holocaust. Let's keep it that way.


you may find this interesting:

see this?

that sign calls 911TRuth meetings nazis and contains death threats.

the website promotes (Rick Siegel's website)

so - who registered

Admin Name:Marguerite Chandler

remember her? she is known as Peggy here on blogger. a rabid no-planer. but we know her personally from the NY movement. she tailed me all day on 9/11/06 at ground zero - being my 'friend'.


Thanks John

Ya, I saw that. Nutty! Delver posted it to our forum. We've been paying some attention to the latest movement drama over there. You might find something useful.

International Truth Movement is no longer is no longer online.

International Truth Movement

another victory

in the war on disinformation

Albanese commits Libel again. Just can't stop himself.

That's funny. Albanese thinks I have a crush on him.

I was walking with my friend, Nick Levis, who really is a friend, who Albanese happened to be with. And I doubt Albanese didn't know that. He's just playing stupid.

And I didn't speak a word to him either that day. As if.

So we're really "friends?" Like Albanese tried to imply earlier on this very site too? Thank g-d I was never his friend. I don't have to live that down.

I posted that pic of the "erstwhile" Raelian's sign on this very site saying it was a pic I took.

I posted it here on this site myself

So it's no secret I took the picture. Big deal.

Albanese is so dishonest he implies that sign had something to do with me - other than I was reporting the news of what was happening at the Church.

Albanese also slandered me once before - called me an anti-Semite and wouldn't retract it. Claimed I spread anti-Semite material around the Church. Which really is illegal to do. It's libel. If I had the money I'd sue him for it.

Yes, and I do promote Rick Siegel's website. What should I do? Promote this one?!


with all due respect, this is jibberish, peggy.

Straight from the horses mouth.

she openly admits she promotes Rick Siegel's website - which list the work of Nico Haupt, Dr. Fetzer, Judy Woods, Morgan Reynolds, Webfairy and TVFakery.

This is Peggy's contribution to the movement.

She also openly admits that she has posted a photo on that same website that incited violence against members of the New York movement - accusing them of being nazis and declaring "Death to all nazis".

Good work Peggy, Thank you for clarifying your fine work for 911 Truth.

Thank you for clarifying yourself as not in good faith.

I didn't post that pic on Seigal's website.

I posted it on this one.

In fact YT reposted it to make sure everyone had a chance to see it, since my post was closed off from being voted down.

I'm a little confused as to why you represent that placard as expressing my own sentiments, when that's just another one of your bold lies. Don't you realize how transparent you are? It's so obvious. You're discrediting this site - which I assume you are trying to promote.

You are not truthful, twist facts. lie and misrepresent.

Over and Over

And this is plainly obvious.

Once a person is caught as a liar, nothing they say should be trusted.

Also your cliche: "straight from the horse's mouth" and "whacking a moles" show you are not able to think, but just pull up handicapped phrases either out of stupidity or lack of imagination and thought.

That's not all that bothers me

His website contains a very prominent link to The Barry Chamish website which promotes extremist Israeli theories - such as:

"This book deals with the plan to force the jews from Yesha by murdering their rabbis and leaders, the Vatican's plan to create a 2nd holocaust, the murder and blackmail of leaders who do not cooperate, the creation of a palestinian nation from thin air."

This is extremist stuff.

My bet is that this message board will now be bombarded with the usual smokescreen of "criticizing zionism is not anti-semitism" posts - and the usual bait and switch tactics of debate.

Have you noticed a pattern of one after another seemingly legitimate 911 spokesman rising to represent this movement - only to later be exposed as crazy or racist?

Morgan Reynolds - seemed normal at first. Jim Fetzer - seemed normal at first. Judy Woods - seemed normal at first. Rick Siegel - seemed normal at first. One after another these people emerge from nowhere only to later suddenly advocate no planes, space beams, mini nukes, holocaust denial, etc.

Even Kevin Barret concerns me in that he wrote an editorial asking us to not dismiss the "space beams" theory - and his position in this movement as an "islamic studies professor" makes him ideal to scapegoat this movement.

and - the pattern is EVERY TIME that people will insist that these people represent our best interests.

its like wack-a-mole at the amusement park. wack one mole and another jumps up in its place.

You know, for someone who complains about disinf meant to divide

You sure do throw out a lot of accusations. I have no doubt that most of the poeple you mention ARE disinfo. But if I were to suggest that you could just as well be, then I would be "sowing distrust and dividing the movement" right? But when you do it it's OK because you KNOW who is disinfo and who isn't. You're like, the authority. Hell you wrote the book on it! Or edited the video, whatever! What a great cover for a disinfo agent, huh?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


The first thing to look for

The first thing to look for when you're looking for disinfo is this: Will the suspect falsify evidence to prove his case on a given subject?

In the case of Judy Woods the answer is yes. She falsifies the evidence by lying about the damage done to the "bathtub" of the WTC and then by pointing to an absurd cause for the WTC collapses.

In the case of Jim Fetzer the answer is yes. He both pushes Woods disinfo and mischaracterizes the work of other researchers.

In the case of Morgan Reynolds the answer is yes. No planers always falsify the data to an absurd degree.

In the case of Real Truther the answer is yes. He falsifies the data regarding the death toll at Auschwitz, purposefully suggesting that if the Soviet plaque touting 4 million dead at Auschwitz is incorrect then so is the established figure of 5-6 million killed in the Holocaust. But the second figure is not in any way derived from the first.

In all of the above cases the falsification is obvious and serves one purpose only, to discredit legitimate research into 911 by associating the movement with disreputable arguments.

Good one

The first thing to look for when you're looking for disinfo is this: Will the suspect falsify evidence to prove his case on a given subject?

Albanese passes this test with flying colors!

and you support

Nico Haupt- Rick Siegel- no planes- Dr Fetzer - Judy Woods - etc etc

i will stack my reputation up against theirs anytime.

What reputation? As a liar?

You're so pompous, about being what?

and you support

Nico Haupt- Rick Siegel- no planes- Dr Fetzer - Judy Woods - etc etc

case closed.

You have repeatedly

attempted to convince people on this forum that i am a shill. you have bluntly accused me of such.

at the same time you attempt to mock and undercut the very legitimate and significant Pakistan research that people like David Ray Griffin, and Barrie Zwicker, and Paul Thompson, and Press of the Truth, and Jon Gold, and promote.

instead you inject inflamatory shill debates into the dialogue - using inflamatory language like "the evil zionist landlord Silverstein" guaranteed to evoke images of anti-semitism to discredit this movement... so you can then launch into long winded rightiously indignant debates about how criticism of Israel is not anti-semitism but Israel is REALLY responsible for 911.

You forgot to mention that

You forgot to mention that RT is a Holocaust denier cut from the exact same cloth as Eric Williams.

gosh you're a liar

go ahead Mr. Albanese, link to anywhere where I have said "evil Zionist landlord". Just one example will do. The fact that you have to invent things to try to make me look like something I'm not is proof enough that you are not sincere. Like when you trolled around here anonymously to back up your own points, until we sussed you out by your chronic misspelling.

And you are in the business, it seems, of telling everyone who is and is not a shill, with your precious movie about disinformation. And yet you have the gall to complain when others try to point out who they think are disinfo. Obsessions with the Patsystan connection are not as detrimental to the movement as plain old BS like holograms and space beams, but neither are they a productive use of time. For the umpteenth time, any connection Pakistan may have to al Qaeda has as little to do with 9/11 as any connection they might have with Mickey Mouse, since there is scant evidence that either al Qaeda or Mickey Mouse had anything to do with the events of 9/11. Sure, any odd detail about something that has been covered up or lied about points to the shroud of mystery purposely erected around the events, and pointing those out is fine as long as the wrong conclusion are not drawn from them.

You would have people believe, Mr. Albanese, that al Qaeda indeed sent Muslim hijackers to America, that they hijacked planes, cut throats, etc. You would have us believe the official story in other words. By attacking obvious shills like Nico and Fetzer, you hope to make a name for yourself as a man of integrity, so that you can then posture and pontificate on issues of much more subtle disinfo than no planes and space beams. No doubt you have your "helpers" here as well as people who haven't had the chance to really see you in action as some have, letting loose with ALL CAPS RANTS and barely veiled threats.

You're pretty much a joke.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



Here's one example:

You state:

LIHOP=Murderous Arab Muslims
And MIHOP=Murderous Zionist Landlord


Furthermore, there are tons of other examples that a simple search of this site reveals - but - i do not care to waste my time on you.

YOu have repeatedly OVERTLY referred to me as a "shill" and an "agent" on these boards - while posting such immature nonsense and accusations as your post above. Many of your characterizations of my work and beliefs are simply ignorant.

Additionally - your obsession with all subjects pertaining to jews is transparent and offensive.

But i do notice lately your attempts to engage me in dialogue by showing up on my blogs and stirring up strawman accusations.

sorry - not biting. i will allow my actions and my work to speak for itself. go back to your holocaust denials.

those equations are brilliant

LIHOP=MIHOP=terms that present a false dichotomy. Both however describe possible variants of an inside job, one emphasizing the subcontractors, both entailing treason.

so you admit you misquoted me, good!

You and misterguy seem to think that poor Larry Silverstein was duped into buying these towers and that they were then laced with explosives without his knowledge. And Pakistan had something to do with it I suppose? It's not enough that you folks are trying to preserve the "evil muzzle-'ims did it" myth, you then have to also go around accusing truthers of being holocaust denying bigots.

Albanese, I notice your latest blog post is all about Nico Haupt and his obvious disinfo act. Your next film should be titled: "How to See the Obvious and Point it Out to Others to Inflate Your Own Ego".

No amount of posturing will change the fact that you are indeed an insincere player in the 9/11 truth business-and I've no doubt that it is business for you.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Any insult from this guy is

Any insult from this guy is a compliment. Also you have consistently put Silverstein at the top of your Zionist perp list. Do you deny that you think Silverstein was a major player in the murder of the roughly 3000 that died on 9/11?

Your insistence that the Pakistani money drop to Mohammed Atta isn't worth investigating is pretty much the same as your insistence that a Soviet plaque at Auschwitz is the basis for the accepted death toll in the Holocaust. It is disinfo.

Let's accept that Atta was, in one way or another, a patsy. Ask yourself if it's worthwhile to investigate the patsy. Taking a parallel example, if we are trying to discover who killed Kennedy is it worthwhile to investigate Lee Harvey Oswald? Is Oswald's connection to the FBI important? Or should we take the perspective that since Oswald didn't pull the trigger we should spend all of our time investigating the guy who opened an umbrella while Kennedy's car was rolling by? Well that's what you do when you insist that the dancing Mossad agents are more important than Mohammed Atta.

Oswald's connection to the FBI was an important discovery as is Atta's connectio to the CIA through the ISI. But you're not interested in that. You're only interested in your Zionist Conspiracy theory.

Yea, he makes stuff up straight out

It's an historical fact. One can look at the record.

And he's doing it again here today.

I guess the past is the best guide to predicting future behavior

If one has a memory and reasoning powers that will help at least weed out the blatant liars. And Albanese is one.

It's like the Big Lie principle writ on our personal scale. Tell the biggest whopper about a person imaginable, and figure it will fly, because you bully everyone who does not go along.


this will be decided in the court of public opinion. i hope you guys are prepared to defend yourself - because i think the fine work of Nico Haupt and Dr Fetzer and Judy Woods and TVFakery and space beams and Rick Siegel will speak for itself - once the hammer falls on you guys.

silly rhetoric on a message board will only get you so far. but - it appears that this will be taken to the next level and a serious examination and audit WILL legally commence.

best of luck

I agree if this guy has

I agree if this guy has produced anti-Semitic literature then he shouldn’t be associated with us, and will taint that conference. But you also support "Peak Oil" on TruthMove, which is in of its self a highly "divisive" issue. It doesn’t carry the same immediate weight with the average person as anti-Semitism, but never the less it's something that a lot of people disagree with. I love your site though and I applaud all the activism you guys participate in! The point I'm trying to make is that something like "Peak Oil" also splits people, it's what split Alex Jones and Michael Ruppert for example.

there is no moral equivalent

between peak oil and holocaust denial. its not even close.

the president of iran just held a conference to deny the holocaust. the Klu Klux Klan and David Duke advocate holocaust denial. neo-nazis advocate holocaust denial. do you have any idea what a bad association it is for the 911 Truth movement to have a holocaust denier representing us?

have you seen this?

this sign was held up outside a 911 Truth meeting in NYC. They equate us with Nazis - and say 'DEATH TO NAZIS'

peak oil is a debatable point. but it is not the emotional equivalent of siding with nazis and white supremacists and anti-semities who are defending the nazis and claiming they did not have a policy of exterminating jews.

it never f*cking fails. why don't we just all give up because obviously this movement is totally co-opted, and the few honest people who organize these events obviousy have no god-damned f*cking common sense.

Hang on there, John. You're

Hang on there, John. You're putting out a movie on Disinfo, right? You can't be saying that it's impossible to overcome this shit.

You've studied this shit so think for a second, how do we at least try to get rid of the disinfo Nazis in our ranks and the Nazi smear?

how about we start.... demanding that the Phoenix conference immediately fire this guy?

anything short of that is not acceptable.

If he did use the 9-11 platform

If he did use the 9-11 platform to spread holocaust denial.

I would agree. Other wise NO.

We should be the first to know the value of freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

Too late.

There's already been a hit piece in the local media. He has to be surgically removed. Immediately. I don't care if he planned to discuss buttercups and kittens.

Please be smart people! Aren't we the ones who decry those too stupid to connect the dots on 9/11? Connect the dots here! This is being coordinated on some level.

"buttercups and kittens"

"buttercups and kittens" huh?

It just made a strange image in my head juxtaposed with 911...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Ditch the guy fast

I agree with John that this movement does not need this kind of taint right now (or any time for that matter).

Very interesting. First the

Very interesting. First the Paula Zahn piece now this. Like clockwork.

John is correct as to their m.o.: send in a reasonable-sounding individual, have him or her establish a following amongst truthers, then drop the disinfo bomb hoping it will blow us apart, ideally into little squabbling factions who appear ridiculous to the public. Fetzer was a particularly ingenious move, having him actually found the scholars for truth faction.

Well, it ain't gonna work. We beat "no planes", we beat "space beams", we'll beat the anti-semite/holocaust-denier label, and we'll beat the limited hangout they cough up should their be a new investigation.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Thanks Danse, I needed that.

Your focus and optimism are appreciated.

International Truth Movement

No, in terms of a moral

No, in terms of a moral equivalent it's not as recognisable as anti-Semitism but I would say Malthusian extermination of 80% of the world's population is rather immoral. You're right there's not an equivalent because we're talking about a Holocaust of billions, not the 6 million Jews and the millions of other people exterminated by the Nazis.

I know TruthMove arn’t promoting Malthusian population extermination but they're certainly pushing the pseudo "consensus" about "Peak Oil" and "Global Warming" that the "Elite" are using to justify wiping out most people living on the planet today. Global Warming is happening but again it's the Sun heating up, man made emissions and cities acting like heat syncs do contribute but minimally in comparison. Alex Jones is doing his next documentary on all this shit, personally I think it's foolish to be pushing "Peak Oil" and as described by people like Al Gore and Tony Blair, "Global Warming".

I think you have it

I think you have it backwards, Dem. Denying Peak Oil and Global Warming is actually another excellent way of making us appear ridiculous to the public. Why? Because the evidence to support both theories is overwhelming. I recommend you study some scientific literature on these subjects before automatically swallowing A.J.'s hypothesis. The idea that 6 billion people are only having a marginal effect on our ecosystems is ludicrous. There is no evidence to support the abiotic oil theory. Where do you think all that smoke belching out of cars and factories ends up? Oz?

Now, I do agree with AJ that the solutions being proposed to solve these problems are not only grossly insufficient but will, in all likelihood, lead to greater forms of tyranny. That doesn't mean the problems themselves are non-existent.

There are perfecly sound solutions to deal with these REAL problems that don't involve elite or "Malthusian" population control and global taxes. The problem is that neither AJ nor the elite are interested in them.


"Frances Moore Lappe and Rachel Schurman found that of seventy Third World countries, there were six--China, Sri Lanka, Colombia, Chile, Burma, and Cuba--and the state of Kerala in India that had managed to lower their birth rates by one third. They enjoyed neither dramatic industrial expansion nor high per capita incomes nor extensive family planning programs. The factors they had in common were public education and health care, a reduction of economic inequality, improvements in women's rights, food subsidies, and in some cases land reform. In other words, fertility rates were lowered not by capitalist investments and economic growth as such but by socio-economic betterment, even of a modest scale, accompanied by the emergence of women's rights."

Peak oil and related environmental problems are best solved, once again, through egalitarianism and direct democracy. States and corporations have very different interests than regular people. Thus they don't care much about environmental destruction. Decentralized and direct democratic communities with decision-making power vested in the people rather than elites could easily solve these and countless other problems.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

For what it's worth, Danse

I think your argument is entirely correct. The evidence for Peak Oil and Global Warming is quite extensive and overwhelming. And to equate it in any way with holocaust denial is disingenuous at best and misleading at worst.

well, the one-child policy in China had something to do with it

wouldnja think?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


well, the one-child policy

well, the one-child policy in China had something to do with it

wouldnja think?"

You'd think, but you'd be wrong:

"This sequence of events is significant mainly for this reason -- the one-child policy wasn’t adopted by China until 1979, yet China’s huge fertility drop occurred between 1970 and 1979 when live births fell from 34 per 1,000 people to 18 per 1,000 people. Since the introduction of the one-child policy in 1979, there has been no large drop in fertility and in fact China experienced a slight increase fluctuating around 21 births per 1,000 people in the 1980s"

Once again, if people aren't dirt poor they will not feel the need to have a dozen children in order to support themselves. If women are properly educated, granted equal rights and given access to contraceptives they will have control over their own bodies and will therefore have less children.

These are not solutions that elites (or the Vatican) favor, however, so we are told that there is a "population problem" that can't be solved unless half the population is culled or something to that (monstrous) effect.

You might even say this about all (or nearly all) of the problems we face: there are many rational and (relatively) painless ways of solving them but they all entail empowerment of regular people (and a corresponding reduction in elite power), therefore they are ommitted from discourse from the outset, and we are left with an ever increasing number of catastrophes waiting to befall us.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

contraceptives? women's rights?

Don't you know as Aaron Russo found out from Nick Rockefeller that this nonsense was started by the Rockefellers so that they could have women paying taxes, too?

Don't make me come over there!

I hope that was tongue in cheek, my friend. The absolute right to bodily sovereignty for women (and men) is *the* number one answer to humanely reaching a sustainable population.

Damn it...

I am having trouble resisting cute answers that may undermine my feminist cred (well come on over - tongue in whose cheek?) but the short answer is, yeah, I'm mocking the absurd piece from earlier this week, which I'm sure you did not miss, in which the women's movement was revealed as a Rockefeller plot. There seems to be a lot of that - the idea that burning millions of tons of hydrocarbons might have consequences, or that population could stand to be controlled, it's all just lies from the Rockefellers (and Rothschilds), see?

Lets see

if you can keep yourself above a -3 vote today.

you are NEVER going to be Miss America if you keep losing the Miss Congeniality competition.


"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

You wanna be barefoot and preggers in my kitchen?

Okay, first things first: amongst 9/11 blogger feminists, that kind of retort *earns* you cred, it doesn't undermine it. (Ask Erin S. Myers about the "fuckhole" controversy for example.)

Secondly, the Rockefeller plot was discussed, dissected, and deconstructed here a while back in thoughtful, sensitive posts reflecting the best that feminist theory has to offer. So now, instead of taking time to write careful responses, I'm just going to threaten to make someone my bitch if he brings it up.


Does this mean you're handling the straight job (and the tax bill), and I'm greeting you at the door with slippers and a martini?

The Rockefellers DID NOT

The Rockefellers DID NOT inspire women who were sick of being second class citizens in the modern western world to change their lot. Though admittedly they(Rockefellers) saw a "profit" in it and took advantage of the circumstances--like all bastards do everywhere to everyone.

Yes, I saw "Freedoom To Fascism"--excellent movie but that point was more than a bit over-stated. That's like saying blacks were freed from slavery ONLY because corporations wanted special rights as artificial "persons"(14th amendment). That was just a way for the bastards to take advantage of the situation--it wasn't the cause of it, twit.

Oh, and to be clear--no one GIVES me my rights. I bloody TAKE them--or kill the bitch that stands in my way.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

On seeing your post after

On seeing your post after casseia's, I shall reconsider calling you a "twit"--probably.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.


"admittedly they(Rockefellers) saw a "profit" in it and took advantage of the circumstances--like all bastards do everywhere to everyone. "

good point, col. the extent to which people take advantage of existing situations or actually engineer situations to take advantage of is VERY important in developing a reasonably "Theory of Conspiracy".


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Well I stand corrected!

interesting stuff, thanks Danse.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


the Second American Revolution

Danse, your posts provide a breath of fresh air.

Local empowerment measures enabling or including
"public education and health care, a reduction of economic inequality, improvements in women's rights, food subsidies, and in some cases land reform...."

That's it. This is where people will have to go if 9-11 ever breaks open, as it ultimately must. Think of how many institutions will have to change, radically, or be abolished somehow.

LeftWright herre calls it "the Second American Revolution." To be a real revolution, it will in this case also have to be non-violent.

MSNBC Asks Public About Impeachment

MSNBC Asks Public About Impeachment

Please follow this link to the Live Poll for public opinion on impeachment.

Thanks, Delver. I didn't

Thanks, Delver. I didn't know about his Holocaust denial literature. 9/11 Truth should not associate with his kind.

Here's an article for you

Here's an article for you TruthMove guys;

SUV's On Jupiter?

Are humans responsible for climate change on the outer reaches of the solar system, or is it the sun?

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, November 16, 2006

Kofi Annan today slammed global warming skeptics as being "out of step" and "out of time," but how will altering human activity halt climate change when the evidence clearly indicates that the sun itself and not SUV's is heating up the entire solar system?

"The U.N. chief lamented "a frightening lack of leadership" in fashioning next steps to reduce global emissions. "Let us start being more politically courageous," he urged the hundreds of delegates from some 180 member nations of the 1992 U.N. climate treaty," reports Forbes.

But how do we square the fact that almost every planet in our solar system is simultaneously undergoing temperature change and volatile weather patterns. Does this not suggest that global warming is a natural cycle as a result of the evolving nature of the sun? Can Al Gore fill me in on this one?

- Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists
In what is largely a reversal of an August announcement, astronomers today said Pluto is undergoing global warming in its thin atmosphere even as it moves farther from the Sun on its long, odd-shaped orbit.

- New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change
The latest images could provide evidence that Jupiter is in the midst of a global change that can modify temperatures by as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit on different parts of the globe.

- Current Science & Technology Center: Global Warming on Mars?
A study of the ice caps on Mars may show that the red planet is experiencing a warming trend. If both Mars and Earth are experiencing global warming, then perhaps there is a larger phenomenon going on in the Solar System that is causing their global climates to change.

- United Press International: NASA looks at a monster storm on Saturn
NASA says its Cassini spacecraft has found a hurricane-like storm at Saturn's South Pole, nearly 5,000 miles across -- or two-thirds Earth's diameter.

- Science Agogo: Global Warming Detected on Triton
There may not be much industrial pollution on Neptune's largest moon, but things are hotting up nonetheless. "At least since 1989, Triton has been undergoing a period of global warming," confirms astronomer James Elliot, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "Percentage-wise, it's a very large increase."

- Associated Press: Study says sun getting hotter
Solar radiation reaching the Earth is 0.036 percent warmer than it was in 1986, when the current solar cycle was beginning, a researcher reports in a study to be published Friday in the journal Science. The finding is based on an analysis of satellites that measure the temperature of sunlight.

- London Telegraph: The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.

The simple fact is that throughout the ages the earth has swung wildly between a warm, wet, stable climate, to a cold, dry and windy one - long before the first fossil fuel was burned. The changes we are now witnessing are a walk in the park compared to the battering that our planet has taken in the past.

This is not a defense of the oil cartels or the Neo-Con wreckers, who would have every motivation to ignore global warming whether it is man-made or not.

Nor is it a blanket denial of the fact that the earth is getting very gradually hotter, but how do we reconcile global warming taking place at the farthest reaches of the solar system with the contention that it is caused by human activity? Have our exhaust fumes left earth's atmosphere and slipped through a black hole to Triton?

The assertion that global warming is man made is so oppressively enforced upon popular opinion, especially in Europe, that expressing a scintilla of doubt is akin to holocaust denial in some cases. Such is the insipid brainwashing that has taken place via television, newspapers and exalted talking heads - global warming skeptics are forced to wear the metaphoric yellow star and only discuss their doubts in hushed tones and conciliatory frameworks, or be cat-called, harangued and jeered by an army of do-gooders who righteously believe they are rescuing mother earth by recycling a wine bottle or putting their paper in a separate trash can.

Fearmongering about an imminent climate doomsday also hogs news coverage and important environmental issues like GM food, mad scientist chimera cloning and the usurpation and abuse of corporations like Monsanto flies under the radar.

Global warming is cited as an excuse to meter out further control and surveillance over our daily lives, RFID chips on our trash cans, GPS satellite tacking and taxation by the mile, as well as a global tax at the gas pump.

The extremist wing of the environmentalist movement, characterized by people like Dr. Erik Pianka, advocate the mass culling of humanity via plagues and state sanctioned bio-terrorism, in order to "save" the earth from the disease of humanity. Nazi-like genocial population control measures and the environmental establishment have always held a close alliance.

The orthodox organized religion of global warming and its disastrous consequences for our freedom of speech, freedom of mobility and our right to remain outside of the system, needs to be questioned on the foundational basis that the phenomenon is solar-system wide and it is mainly caused by the natural evolution of the sun and not human activity.

I don't get it.


Why are you using this thread as an opportunity to criticize us? Is that what we get for bringing this concern to your attention? Implying that our concern for the decline in oil production is in any way comparable to holocaust denial doesn't sit right with me.

I hope you have actually seen our peak oil page, and recognize our approach to this issue. And I assume that if we took this page down, that you wouldn't just find something else to gripe about. We are not being alarmist, implying that everyone will have to live on a farm next year, and we don't subscribe to some of the research that we find to have a questionable source.

At the very worst we are off base. Considering our apparent concern for getting it right, you could either be more specific about what we have written, and not here (off topic), or just think we don't have this one figured out yet and give it a rest. We aren't trying to deceive anyone, and we aren't trying to keep any gates.

I did enjoy the humor. No hard feelings. We don't mind so much that you're not into peak oil. But we'd prefer if you didn't question our ultimate motivations just because of one page on our site you find to have factual inaccuracies.

We are very clear about asking for critique. But so far you have spent more time talking about the peak oil conspiracy, and less about the science. We are not naive to your opinion and its basis, as you have expressed in on many occasions. Perhaps we have missed something.

International Truth Movement

Re: The Sun and Global

Re: The Sun and Global Warming

"However, researchers at the MPS have shown that the Sun can be responsible for, at most, only a small part of the warming over the last 20-30 years.

They took the measured and calculated variations in the solar brightness over the last 150 years and compared them to the temperature of the Earth. Although the changes in the two values tend to follow each other for roughly the first 120 years, the Earth's temperature has risen dramatically in the last 30 years while the solar brightness has not appreciably increased in this time."

Here's what we know.

Carbon dioxide = greenhouse gas.

Greenhouse gases are molecules whose structures can absorb lots of heat energy.

CO2 levels over the last 650,000 years = relatively constant

C02 levels now in atmosphere = off the charts

One of the few ways for C02 to be absorbed out of the atmosphere = trees

We are cutting down lots and lots and lots of trees. We are pumping lots and lots of C02 into the atmosphere. The Earth is getting warmer at a rapid pace.

Even scientists who think the sun plays a major role in global warming acknowledge:

"Over the past 20 years, human activities such as the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation had begun to dominate "the natural factors involved in climate change"


Except amongst a few rogues working for Exxon and other oil companies (000000.1 percent) there is a concensus among physicists, oceanographers and other scientists than mankind is playing a major role in global warming. The number of scientists who dispute this is equalivent to the number of scientists who believe "peak oil" is a "fraud" or that oil is "abiotic".

There is legitimate debate as to when the peak will occur -- it may be fifty years down the road or longer; there is a legitimate concern that oil cartels are manufacturing artificial scarcities to inflate their profits; there is legimate concern that these crises of peak oil and global warming will be used by elites to create more tyranny.

But the theories in question must be taken very seriously indeed.

Like I said, the solutions being offered by elites to solve these problems will no doubt just make matters worse; this is one of the many reasons why we need to look at different ways of organizing ourselves and living day-to-day than what is provided us by state capitalism or state communism.

Some people are opposed to radically different ways of living, therefore they pretend the problems don't exist and attribute them to a monumental conspiracy by virtually every living scientist.

Alex Jones is a good source for many issues, but science is not one of them.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Dem is bad.

He is not only a Peak oil denier. He denies Global warming.

This is pure EEEEVIL!

I think people are right to

I think people are right to be suspicious about the motivations of certain entities who push global warming and peak oil. But it's not a question of "Deny science" vs. "accept global tyranny to combat environmental problems". There are plenty of sane, rational ways of dealing with our problems that don't involve further enslavement; indeed, the best way to create a sustainable lifestyle for humans is LESS enslavement, MORE freedom, more decision making power vested in regular people who are most affected by these crises. That's the answer.

What does a corporation care about pumping sewage into the water supply? It doesn't: in fact it's legaly mandated to pursue profit at the expense of everything else -- they are BOUND to externalize the costs of their own waste. What do politicians care? They don't: they're paid for by the same corporations.

Now allow regular citizens to enter into the decision-making arena and the priorities will flip outside down: as a rule, people DO tend to care about the health of their children and grandchildren.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month


We have a good relationship and you have helped me a great deal with forwarding me materials for my work, but i think you are a little out of line here. we have enough problems with the obvious disruptors and disinfo in our midst without undermining Truthmove.

You see you guys can vote

You see you guys can vote those posts down all you want but I'm still confident about this.

Here's what I mean, this has been all over British Media the last couple of days;

Humans blamed for climate change

That is just complete bullshit, there is ZERO mention of the Sun's current hot cycle, why is the Sun omitted from the coverage or its affects falsely downplayed? Here is the study from 1998, why is this now redundant?

"Climate changes such as global warming may be due to changes in the sun rather than to the release of greenhouse gases on Earth. "

"The sun is currently at its most active for 300 years.

That, say scientists in Philadelphia, could be a more significant cause of global warming than the emissions of greenhouse gases that are most often blamed.

The researchers point out that much of the half-a-degree rise in global temperature over the last 120 years occurred before 1940 - earlier than the biggest rise in greenhouse gas emissions."

Anything the media pushes so vigorously is almost always a manipulation; this is the same deal with Bird Flu and Terrorism. If TruthMove starts supporting the UN’s “World Tax” next then I’ll be very disappointed. Essentially what I'm saying is, you’re inline with people like Al Gore, Tony Blair and the UN on this, yet you don't think you're being manipulated in anyway?

On this issue I'm afraid guys I think you're all suckers.

Eric D. Williams in his own words:

This is page 107 from The Puzzle of Auschwitz

Chapter Eleven

Obviously, there are more puzzle pieces to assemble and the large
puzzle that we have assembled here is just a small piece in a much
larger puzzle all together.
Will we ever really know what happened during World
War II? No. But with some common sense and some objectivity
we can see the agenda behind not only the alleged Holocaust, but
war in general, to stop the agenda from unfolding further.
In conclusion, subjecting any ethnic group or nation to
torture under any pretext is extremely unacceptable! What is even
more unacceptable is when the suffering is abused, and
exaggerated for political purposes.
By exaggerating the suffering of the Jewish people during
World War II, Zionist groups and the Israeli regime are taking
advantage of furthering their agenda to neutralize any opposition
to their agenda and brand anyone who questions their story, anti-
I am not trying to say that Jews did not suffer at the hands
of the Nazis. No one I know within Historical Revisionism is
trying to ignore it either. The suffering of any group should not
cause the world to justify the suffering of another to justify the
firsts. And this suffering causes more suffering and then leads to
Around the world there are many wars going on. All
military leaders would have us believe that wars are necessary to
prevent future wars, like war is a path to peace. Only through
understanding of why people are made to suffer can we get at the
root of the problem, not by aiming a gun, or firing a missile.
Violence only breeds violence. We first need understanding!

“There is no path to peace. Peace is the path”
- Mahatma Gandhi

The words "alleged Holocaust" are clear, unambiguous and undeniable.

Mr. Eric D. Williams is listed as the "Webmaster / Conference Director" and is scheduled to present in four sessions.

This is a public relations disaster and will turn into a permanent, ongoing and escalating nightmare for the 9/11 Truth movement.

The focus of the Chandler, AZ conference is accountability, unity. strategies and solutions. I, for one, find no humor in the irony here.

If Mr. Eric D. Williams remains as Conference Director and plays a prominent role in the conference the 9/11 Truth movement will not only be shooting itself in both feet it will be shooting itself in the head. The damage this self-inflicted wound would have is orders of magnitude beyond anything the no-planers and space beamers could ever dream of doing.

I encourage everyone to contact Mr. Williams and, in a civil manner, ask him to remove himself from any high profile position connected with the conference.

The politics of perception cannot be ignored when promoting 9/11 Truth.

I take no joy in posting this comment.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Good point, LW: it is possible to read much of the book

via a link on his site, and I have done so. It looks amateurish, not scholarly, and the fact that it is prominently billed as his "Latest Book!" at this time is suspicious, to say the least.

Contacting the AZ Truth people

The Accountability Conference is a project of 9/11 Truth of Arizona. Obviously, they need some feedback regarding this potential public relations disaster, especially from those of us who have made plans to attend. I encourage everyone to remember that people in local truth groups are in general regular folks doing the best they can, and it behooves those of us who are going to get in touch to be reasonable and tactful. If it was *my* group and *my* conference was in jeopardy, I would already be plenty stressed. Just something to keep in mind.

911 Truth of Arizona
5501 North 7th Avenue #412
Phoenix, AZ 85012

Kent (Phoenix) 911cd@cox.n
Steve A.
David K.
Bob (Tucson)
Carl (Sedona, Flagstaff)

The conference itself notes the following contacts.

Conference hotline (being picked up by voicemail at the moment): 602-714-1174

Webmaster / Conference Director Eric D. Williams can be emailed at
Conference Programming Development person Kent Knudson is

Thank you

Good work

I hope his presenting skills

I hope his presenting skills are better than his writing. Seriously though, this is indeed a disaster waiting to happen. We're definitely into the "attack you" phase. They've pulled the anti-semite card and they're running with it.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

This is infuriating! Who

This is infuriating!

Who else from the conference can we contact? Do any of Alex Jones' people know about it? (He had a long segment on his show yesterday about the Paula Zahn interview and the attempt to smear the movement with HD.) He is scheduled to appear in AZ.

I guess I don't have much faith that Williams will step down of his own accord, even if it's just an ego issue.

Let's try to talk with the AZ people first, before giving up.

I am going to be very, very pissed off if this person's poor judgment destroys this conference, and I'm certainly going to give the Arizona people a chance to fix it before I throw in the towel.

Thanks for posting the

Thanks for posting the contact info, Casseia, and ditto to the above.

Um, does Alex Jones care?

There's a prime opportunist. Among other things, his site promotes a book by one Texe Marr. Look it up.

This Eric WIlliams is not the best writer

Which leads me even more to suspect that he's a plant, or at least a useful idiot, and that this Arizona conference was probably conceived as part of the "controlled movement".


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


The timings are suspicious...

The CNN piece, his book release and the conference...

Does anyone actually know this guy ?

Anyone actually met him ?

Something's not right...

Good luck and best wishes

Added... you can listen to a 2hr interview with Kevin Barrett [ HERE ]

I think it's patently

I think it's patently offensive to suggested that the systematic genocidal extermination program that was a Sate policy of Germany during World War II is an exaggeration which is to say that it didn't happen. The only thing I can think of that would be more offensive than that, in fact, would be to use the reality of the Holocaust to justify the occupation and murder of a people today.

Ready for the irony?

This story was broken on Screw Loose Change.

Delver found this story and provided this link in the original thread:

He found this story for the same reason that the Screw Loose Change people found out about Eric Williams new book. Its beneficial to pay close attention to your adversaries. You can learn a great deal.

I could get paranoid and think maybe they got fed the story by people hoping to undermine the movement, but I suspect instead that they were just paying closer attention. Not to be doing us any favors, of course.

We just got duped. Pure and simple. And I'm not sure we could have avoided this one. The guy made himself look kosher up to this point.

But unfortunately, his intention may have been to draw out divisions within the movement as people make different decisions about how to respond to this latests revelation. I hope that there is wide condemnation of this intellectual betrayal, and that all the speakers, who certainly would not want to be associating with Eric Williams, will pull out of the conference. Its not like he can. Its his conference.

International Truth Movement

Do we want...

People to be accountable or don't we? There is a 9/11 Conference taking place in Chandler Arizona. The theme behind the conference is accountability. This cause is bigger than any one person. Just because we took a hit on the chin, and Eric D. Williams' "research" IS a hit on the chin, does that mean we give up? I don't think so. I could be wrong.

To quote the ghost of Mickey from Rocky V, "I didn't hear no bell. Get up ya son of a bitch... cause Mickey luvs ya."

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002


Think of Rocky as us, Tommy Gunn as them, and Don King wannabe as the corporations.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Good point

I was suggesting that because the conference is so directly associated with Eric Williams, that it might be best not to go. I recognize that the sum will be bigger than any one of its parts. But Jon, this could so easily be used against us in the press, and in future characterization of the movement.

I'm at a loss for recommendations. I would obviously like for the conference to happen, but how do you propose this PR debacle be addressed? Won't it be a bit awkward for every speaker to begin their remarks by disavowing any affiliation with Holocaust denial?

Maybe this issue needs to be dealt with at the conference. Maybe we need to hold Eric Williams accountable! I'd recommend this were it not for my concern that whatever our intent, the media will have its way with us. We can't overlook how this will appear from the outside.

Any ideas?

International Truth Movement


All I can say is that this cause is bigger than any one individual. That both answers your question, and solves the problem. However, whether or not the people that need to understand that ,do, is another story altogether.

"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

that's not irony

That tells you that the Screw Loose Change people and/or their backers probably work hand in hand with "Eric Williams". A trap. And see how many people fell for it. Gotta be more careful! I should also point out that if this conference IS the brainchild of Eric Williams, that anyone who is aware of that and still attends is probably just helping to make sure that a 9/11 conference organized by a "holocaust denier"™ takes place. Getting slightly more sophisticated they are, but in the end everything always makes sense.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Spreading ad hominen from

Spreading ad hominen attacks from Screw loose change.

Is that so wise?

More weirdness at Screw

More weirdness at Screw Loose Change:

ewing2001 seems to have gotten a personality transplant.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

His conference?

As I noted above, the conference is a project of 911 Truth of Arizona. Williams is the webmaster and "conference director." I have no idea how that group divvied up responsibilities, whose idea it was originally, and so forth. Williams is *not* described as the person responsible for the conference content -- that is Kent Knudson, who already has a message from me on his voicemail. So is it fair to say it's "Williams' conference"? I have no idea and therefore I'm not going to put forth an assertion one way or the other at this point.

What does your voicemail to

What does your voicemail to Kent say?

It says, "The calls are coming from inside the house!"

I identified myself by name and as a member of Portland 9/11 Truth who is planning to attend the conference and is very concerned about the looming public relations crisis of which he is no doubt aware. I said I would greatly appreciate a call and I gave him my phone number. End of message.

I am acutely aware of the kind of problems that can arise when a group of regular people get together to be activists and engage the public. Therefore, without quite a bit of additional information, I am not going to condemn the entire Arizona or Phoenix area Truth community either of knowingly putting forth a guy who is not the face I would want on my event or of having been "duped by a disinfo agent." I agree with LEH that the guy needs to be "surgically removed" if he will not willingly step down, and if I get a call back, I will tell him that's what I think. Otherwise, he'll be hearing the same thing in an email from me in short order.

It's all good. We're on the same page.

No one here implied that anyone in the movement knew about this guys views. We're all finding out about it right here. And no one here implied that the Arizona 9/11 folks knew any differently. And certainly no one condemned them.

And no one is judging you negatively for wanting to take a measured approach. We all know that there are many questions to be answered, and many personal choices to be made. And we all want the conference to be a success.

International Truth Movement

That's cool, Jules

I would hope to God no one is "judging me negatively for wanting to take a measured response" -- I hadn't even considered anyone might be, and in general, I think people should try to avoid setting their hair on fire and running starkers down the street until they have the full story about anything.

I was hoping you might've

I was hoping you might've said "After recent online conversations with Portlander Misterguy I've determined that Holocaust denial is both ahistorical and horrible." But what you actually said sounds good to me.

Oh jeez, I forgot that part!


Actually, what I read (most but not the entire text is online) *is* something I would probably call "Holocaust denial." What clinched it for me was his use of the phrase "alleged Holocaust." WTF does that mean? He makes it sound like the evil twin of the faked moon landing. And he says something about exaggerating the suffering of the Jews during that period, which I think is just ridiculous. There is room for inquiry into historical facts that need not in any way minimize the suffering of any of the millions who died -- not of the Jews, not of the Roma/gays/mentally ill/disabled/trade unionists/communists/anarchists/occultists, not of the millions of civilians killed all over the place, not even of the many fundamentally good people who found themselves in any of the armies.

Did you ever read my

Did you ever read my response to you about the difference between historical inquiry and falsifying history?

Yes, I did, misterguy

and I started writing a response to it, before all this shit hit the fan. I'll get back to you.

Check Out the Exhibitor's Information Section

Says "Please make checks or money orders payable to: Eric D. Williams."

Check out the program. Eric D. Williams gives the "Mission Statement" right after Kent Knudson (who's quite a character in his own right, having just recently been convicted of a felony in Arizona) welcomes everybody.

I stand corrected. But it doesn't matter.

From Screw Loose Change:

"Note: The point here is not that some idiot Holocaust Denier is holding a conference. The point is that so many other people who imagine themselves to standing up for the "Truth" would care to be associated with such a character."

This isn't a remotely fair statement, as people in the movement didn't know about his views, but it makes one valid point. Its not about him, its about our reaction.

I wouldn't go to the conference even if Williams was just a presenter. But not only is he presenting four times, he's actually highly responsible for the event. He is directly associated with this event, and will be more so by people hoping to mis-characterize our efforts. Whether he is the only organizer or not is not important. What's important is the fact that his intent was likely to associate holocaust denial with 9/11 truth, and that his presence is entirely unacceptable.

I don't mean to sound too pushy, but I don't like to get caught up in semantics when its not necessary. I applaud your effort at maintaining a level head. Its easy to get over excited when you think you are being attacked. And thanks as well for getting the gears in motion and contacting people about this issue.

I very much hope the conference can be saved. But short of kicking out Williams, I'm not sure what could be done. And I don't think that is going to happen.

International Truth Movement

I didn't perceive that as a matter of semantics.

As I said, I'd like some information from the other Arizona people regarding their role(s) in producing the conference before I assume it's a lost cause.

You are correct that it is about our reaction. Right now a lot of people here are reacting like a cat to a vacuum cleaner to anything someone associated with 9/11 Truth might do to facilitate the smear campaign associating Truthers with anti-Semitism. I would say that keeping a level head is the least I can do to resist this disinfo.

"Check payable to" means next to nothing in itself, other than that the guy is collecting the money.

Yes, We Found It By Paying Attention

I noticed the 9-11 Accountability Conference being mentioned over here awhile ago and surfed over there. There's a .gif file on the front page which cycles through the speakers. I've been following this movement since United 93 came out, so I'm going through the names:

Bob Bowman, check, Carol Brouillet--second whistler, check, Tom Foti--Gravy's shadow at the WTC, check, Meria Heller--thanks for Richard Andrew Grove, he was amusing, check, Jim Marrs, check, Janette McKinlay--artiste, check, Steven Jones--super nanothermate, check, Rebecca Cerese--oh, she worked on the Berger snooze-fest, check, Kevin Barrett, check, Eric D. Williams... who?

And if you google "Eric D. Williams" it won't take you ten seconds to find his "What Really Is the Matrix" website, where he lists his seventh book.

Thanks hamster!

Thanks hamster!

I think I speak for everyone when I say i'm glad you guys brought this to our attention. Unlike certain other parties which shall remain unnamed, we truthers dislike fascists and racists and prefer not to associate with their kind. So keep up the good work! Any attempt at rooting out real disinformation artists is welcomed and appreciated by all. Can't say I'm too fond of the whole "pissing on the graves of the 911 victims by discouraging an impartilal investigation" thing, but hey, no one's perfect!

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

I am heartened by the discussion on this thread....

I was actually expecting a storm of "attack the messenger," and I'm proud of the respectful and intelligent discussion being put forth here.

Obviously, we didn't bring up this point to damage the movement, but to encourage constructive debate and informed choices.

The time has come for leaders of the movement to make some loud and decisive choices about disinformation and damaging associations. A good place to start would be a large conference that finally excluded all fascists, holocaust-deniers, no-planers, space-beamers, ufo cultists, etc. And how about holding it somewhere other than some resort outside of Phoenix?

Long live the Truth!

International Truth Movement

Uh, hello?

Phoenix in February is sounding pretty good to me. Or did you mean "resort"? Resorts have good facilities for groups and events, but I can appreciate that such a venue is cost-prohibitive for some people. On the other hand, not having to sleep on someone's living room floor sounds pretty good to me, too.

From the department of constructive criticism, I'm not wild about the fact that you put the picture up. I think that was needlessly inflammatory at a time when we are really waiting for more information about the event itself and the group behind it. The book sucks and in my opinion the link was all the publicity it needed.

"The time has come for leaders of the movement to make some loud and decisive choices about disinformation and damaging associations. A good place to start would be a large conference that finally excluded all fascists, holocaust-deniers, no-planers, space-beamers, ufo cultists, etc."

I would think you might be more skeptical of the whole "leader" idea after this (to the extent this guy is the "leader") and Fetzerpalooza. I certainly don't want some elite vanguard handing down edicts against thoughtcrime when critical thinking, open dialogue and science can do the vast majority of what needs to be done to steer the movement away from disinfo. Damaging associations are a question of PR savvy first and foremost -- and a session on effective public relations for Truth groups, ideally from a pro, would be a great addition to a future conference.

Casseia's point...

... about giving the local organisation a chance to sort it out is a decent one, but I think anybody who goes is going to get hammered for it. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. The Arizona people should have known about this and should not have let it get to this position.

This can be fixed

and should be fixed within the next few days or serious questions will need to be asked and answered.

If Mr Williams quietly slips out of the spotlight then there will be no lasting damage done.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

still no good

Some people, perhaps influenced by certain posters on this board, might ask themselves why Real Truther, and avowed Holocaust Denier™ himself, would be criticizing Eric Williams and this conference.

The problem here is that it is an example of exactly how not to "run" a truth movement. "Leaders" are the kids in school that nobody but the teachers really liked, and they all grew up into professional infiltrator, controllers, and gatekeepers. These eager beavers do everything before sincere but lazy folks get around to it, thus establishing a foothold in any nascent movement.

Most people like being led, so they will say hey look, someone had the initiative to organize a conference! Let's go! Like the mice who say, hey look! someone left a block of cheese on top of that spring loaded wooden block--let's get it!

Of course there is a tendency to WANT to associate with each other, because as truthers most of us have known the dark days when no one around us seemed to understand how serious these things are. The controllers know about this and make a point of going out and offering camaraderie and friendship to real truthers. Truthers are left with the choice of risking getting duped or becoming virtual hermits if they can't find a good balance.

I think that the picture that emerging is clear. In order to attempt to derail the truth movement, the perps and their supporters are playing the anti-semite card. Holocaust revisionism is of course, like claims that the moon landing was staged, one of the most divisive issues out there. Enter Eric Hufschmid, sincere or not, linking the three on his website. Enter CNN with its hit piece, enter the (soon to be notorious) Arizona Conference ™. Remember that Arizona is the one state that doesn't celebrate Martin Luther King day--think that won't come up?

OK the bottom line here is that the perps have a strategy, albeit a fairly transparent one. They are hard at work enacting it. They are coming at us with too little too late, but they will nonetheless try. A tip? Focus on 9/11. Focus on the basics. Don't worry so much about conferences where self-proclaimed leaders will lecture you in exchange for making you feel like part of a big family. That is not how we will win. We will win if every one of us goes out as often as possible with DVDs, signs, flyers, etc. and engages the public on THE PERTINENT ISSUES.

Those do not include the holocaust nor do they include the moon landing. We are all entitled to our positions on those issues. They are, I've found, valid areas of inquiry. In the case of the holocaust there is a tremendous amount of resistance and misrepresentation that takes place, as evidenced by attacks on this board. That does not mean that Eric Williams is not in fact posing as a "Holocaust Denier"™ in order to discredit the movement. I would argue that he is probably doing it to discredit both the 9/11 Truth movement AND the issue of holocaust (and other) revisionism.

Historical revisionism is necessary and good, and there can be no sacred cows, because the truth never needs that kind of protection. We should all chalk this one up to experience and move right along. Let the Screw Loose people debate Eric Williams til they're both blue in the face. Who is going to listen to them?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Damn right man, I agree! And

Damn right man, I agree!

And this just in, everyone get ready for some more Bird Flu hysteria and the politics of fear;

1,000 turkeys killed by bird flu
 "About 1,000 turkeys at a farm in Suffolk have died from bird flu, government vets have confirmed."

Breaking News on Arizona Conference

I had a loooong voicemail from Kent Knudson of Az Truth, who is described as the programming director on the conference website, waiting when I got up.

Knudson says it is NOT Williams' conference, Williams in NOT in charge, Williams is NOT the webmaster even, he is just someone on the organizing committee. Now, this is not what the contact page on the conference website says, but I can think of several reasons that might be the case.

Once again, people, we need a lot more info before people start trying to pull this thing apart

Great work, Casseia! Let's

Great work, Casseia! Let's hope they fix the website and other relevant materials. I don't think he should be a presenter, either, but that will probably be addressed by the organizers now that they have been alerted to our concerns.

I never thought the conference should be scuttled for the sake of a single turd in the punchbowl -- a NIST-verified, fire-proofed, stainless steel scoop will suffice. It may be the only way to ensure that the debunkers don't win a round, either by our having thrown chum into the water on which they can feed, or by cancelling what otherwise looks to be a very positive event.

Now that I'm getting a (somewhat) clearer picture

I'm starting to be raaaather pissed that many bloggerites were all too eager to jump on the bandwagon, based on a hit piece and the always-enlightened perspective of the Screwed people, to try to destroy this event. That is, there most certainly is a problem with Williams, but fact checking regarding his actual role in a group endeavor was not a priority (and more information is still needed.)

Beg to differ...

ScrewLoose may have spotted this first, but the facts are not from ScrewLoose :

1) Knudson may wish to correct this situation, but the Phoenix conference site to the naked eye lists Williams as webmaster and conference director:

Still the case as of Friday 2 Feb 07 at noon.

2) Knudson's books are online. He put them there - not ScrewLoose.

3) Conference participants should have spotted this stuff before ScrewLoose. It could be that Williams suckered everyone by releasing the Auschwitz book AFTER organizing the conference, that remains to be seen. However, his older works already show a very superficial and incompetent approach to 9/11 research, and should have raised the alarm.

4) It is a serious general problem that superficial, incompetent and flat-out wrong approaches to the 9/11 research now dominate, providing such a rich, fat target for ScrewLoose and Co. The relationship has become symbiotic, and serves to rob sun and air from the good research and the political initiatives that could actually appeal to anyone outside the 9/11 truth biotope.

5) Prime example: Loose Change itself, with its "Cleveland Airport mystery" "Marvin Bush ran security" American Free Press and Wikipedia cites, "We just stuck in all these mistakes to fool ya, we'll fix it in the next version maybe" nonsense. Thanks to the music and cool design, they're doing well enough without having an ostensibly academic conference promote them.

Of course, I'm one of those incorrigible hardliners. The Arizona conference from the beginning looked like another one of these "open tent" festivals that are more or less trying to confirm the South Park image of 9/11 truth. I didn't expect the organizer to turn out to be an author of something like "The Puzzle of Auschwitz," but it doesn't surprise me.

The fact in question is Williams' role in the conference

Is or is not Screwed promoting the idea that this is William's conference and that therefore it "is the conference of Holocaust denier"?

He sure is on the website as conference director and webmaster. Equally clear on the website is the statement that the conference is the project of Arizona Truth. The main contact for AZ Truth flatly denies that Williams is "in charge" (Knudson says that he himself is in fact in charge) and that Williams is not even the webmaster. OTOH, they haven't fixed it yet, and all the above listed contacts have heard from me that removing him from the site needs to be job one. Nonetheless, I would say that it is premature to level as destructive a charge as that "This is a conference of, by, and for Holocaust Deniers" in the face of contradictory evidence.

They're not Knudson's books -- they're Williams'.

No, they're not Knudson's books...

And ScrewLoose is full of shit. At the same time, their attacks however generalized often proceed from the weak points, right?

Kent seemed like a nice guy, when I spoke to him lo these many months ago. And until now I was content to keep my views of the Arizona conference to myself. And if they do act vigorously to disassociate the conference from this fellow as director, I'll return to not really caring about it. In fact, I'm just about done with it anyway.

But they put themselves in this situation by allowing the website to announce him as director. You can't really pretend you should not have known what conclusion people reading that will draw.

Again, always keeping in mind the possibility that Williams pulled a bait and switch, i.e., only publicizing his book after setting himself up as the director.


Could be bait and switch.

Could be that the website is factually incorrect about Williams' role, in which case the group was wrong not to keep a better eye on it.

Could be that they knew about Williams' book and thought it would be okay, which is obviously the worst case scenario from the point of view of all the rest of us.

For me, the drama as it has unfolded so far is a lesson in the perils of working with the cracked and incompetant, which, sad to say, seems more or less unavoidable when it comes to small political groups. It is a cautionary tale any way it ends up.

So you personally have closed the case, huh?

Wow, glad that's settled! Now I can stop running around with my hair on fire.

This is the third time in this thread that you have insinuated that people are being overly alarmed about this issue without having all the facts before them. And while I generally agree with your point, you have over-extended it, and I take personal offense to your comment about people in here, such as myself, being cracked and incompetent. We broke the story!

Eric Williams' role in this conference can not be minimized by some cockamamie story about the website being incorrect. Do we really think the webmaster got his or her own name wrong, or listed Eric as the webmaster and director by mistake? Who else is both the webmaster and director? As Reprehensor states below, he did organize the conference!

The point is that whether or not everything seems fine to us from the inside of this issue. From the outside its a total disaster, even if we assume the positive intent of everyone involved. Before we get back to patting each other on the back, lets deal with this.

My original premise when I first addressed this thread, was that Williams is highly involved, that as a result he will not be removed from the conference, but just swept under the rug, which I say based on past experience in the movement, and that the public will be provided even more reason to ignore us, while we are left to fight about this amongst ourselves.

What about that isn't alarming? I think defending the other organizers of the event is a way to avoid the issue. We all know they got duped, and that involves no blame. Actually I think you have just been taking offense to the fact that I said that people shouldn't go if Williams is associated with the event. I certainly stand by that statement, regardless of whether or not he is the man in charge.

As a matter of basic principle, if I was invited to attend or speak at a conference, and I found out before attending that someone significantly involved in the planning of the event were openly advocating Holocaust revisionism, I'd drop out immediately, unless that person was immediately removed and repudiated.

I wish I was hopeful that Eric Williams would be asked to walk far away, but I'm afraid it won't be so simple.

(Edit: Thanks again for writing to Eric about stepping down.)

International Truth Movement

Jules: I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.

I left my self wide open to misinterpretation on that and I apologize. In referring to people who are cracked and incompetant I was referring to some people I work with in real life -- not you, not delver, not TruthMove. I really shouldn't have said it about the people I was actually thinking of either -- it wasn't very nice -- but it wasn't about anyone at 911blogger.

I hope you will rethink your reaction to my other comments in that context.

I have received three emails from AZ people today, in addition to the voicemail I mentioned earlier, and they seem to be realizing the magnitude of the problem. One person said he expects it to be extensively hashed over this weekend, so I'm planning to back off until Sunday evening -- although I am going to catch Kent on the phone (the guy who says he, not Williams, is really running the conference.) I'm the last person who is going to tell you "the case is closed" at this point.

Thanks for clarifying

And I didn't mean to jump on you, but not knowing you well, felt pretty defensive. This whole issue has me on edge as I have had first hand experience in the movement watching people defend the actions of those who acted in a racially insensitive manner. I might not be as optimistic as you that this will be resolved in the manner that I know both of us are hoping for.

Once again, thanks for the letter. Its a brave maneuver and I commend you for representing the seriousness of the issue and all our concerns. I appreciate that you were so definite in your assertion that he must step down. While you didn't address the consequences of not doing so, you left him with the impression that there would be.

And we will take your criticism into consideration when next we turn up some controversial news.

International Truth Movement

I am not speaking for 911blogger.

In my opinion, the conflation of 9/11 skepticism and Holocaust revisionism is disastrous.

I do find it odd that CNN unleashes their hit piece and now this.

I do find it troubling that 9/11 front-men are imploding left and right, kind of a "fire and forget" booby trap from the perps.

When I started to look into 9/11 skepticism I used to link to articles on the American Free Press site a lot, until I learned more about them.

9/11 skepticism is a form of historical revisionism. What is commonly misunderstood about revisionism, is that it should correctly be called "historical clarification". This is the ideal that 9/11 activists should be aiming for.

At the end of World War II, historian Charles A. Beard denounced Roosevelt for misleading America into war. He was right.

He was followed by Harry Elmer Barnes, who also tore apart Roosevelt's war premise.

The book Barnes edited and contributed to, "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace" is a revisionist classic.

Much of what the WWII (and with Barnes WWI) revisionists suspected in the late 40s and early 50s has been proven true, notably with Robert Stinnet's "Day of Deceit".

It is in the late 1950s that Barnes began to obsess about the Holocaust, and all of his other work was tarred with the anti-Semitic brush. Then came the "Barnes Review".

What a waste.

9/11 skepticism should not go down with this ship. In my opinion, Williams should recuse himself from the conference.

Yes, he organized the conference, but when he invited speakers to this conference, did he tell them about his new work?


The best critique of Zionism I have seen is by Jewish author Alfred M. Lilienthal, I recommend his work without reservation.

For a serious examination of the Holocaust as a political issue, I recommend Jewish author, Norman J. Finkelstein.

Agreed on all points, Rep.

Agreed on all points, Rep. and Casseia. Many thanks.

My letter to Williams

Email to Eric Williams

Hi Eric,

I'm Sara, a member of Portland 9/11 Truth. I've registered for the conference, have my plane ticket, and have been looking forward to this event.

By now, I'm sure you are aware that the conference is having a public relations meltdown in the national 9/11 Truth community. I encourage you to read this blog AND the comments that follow if you have not already:

Eric, you will find many people at 911blogger who support your right to free speech and to inquire into any historical narrative. What you won't find is anyone who thinks that you should assume a leadership role in organizing a conference on 9/11 Truth while at the same time publically promoting a book about Holocaust revisionism. Why? Because it is a public relations disaster of the highest magnitude.

Right now, quite a number of people in 9/11 Truth are advocating a boycott of this event by both speakers and attendees. In my opinion, for the sake of the conference and in fact for the sake of the 9/11 Truth movement in a larger sense, you must immediately step down from any leadership role in the conference. You must resign any position as director or webmaster, and your name must immediately be removed from the conference's website, the list of speakers, and the program. I ask you to do the honorable thing and distance yourself from the conference to the greatest extent possible now before a boycott is organized to any greater degree.

I would be happy to discuss this complex issue with you. I can be reached at (503)xxx-xxxx


Sara Lamadrid

Well said, and very diplomatic.

Actions speak louder than words. I respect your get up and go. I think your letter will be much more effective than mine would have been. I was thinking about taking a stab at it, but I'm a bit too steamed.

As I said above I'm rooting for the home team here, but due to my experience in NYC, I'm skeptical about this all going down smoothly. I can only hope I'm wrong.

International Truth Movement

Excellent letter, cas. But

Excellent letter, cas. But I think you should edit out more than your phone number....which is why I'm posting here.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

You know rep, with all due respect...

I'm missing something here. It's true that Nazi holocaust denial and 9/11 truth are a very bad mix for public relations. And it's true that the self-appointed debunkers and propagandists of the terror war want to unfairly create an instantaneous and pavlovian association between anti-Semitism, holocaust denial, and the 9/11 truth movement.

However, is there not another, more fundamental reason to avoid association with holocaust denial? The Nazi holocaust against the Jews and a number of other groups is more than just historical fact. It was the lived horror of the millions who were targeted by extermination policy.

Those who have sought to relativize this crime have generally done so in an effort to justify or at least excuse the Nazi regime -- or to allay some felt guilt of the German people. Rarely do people who pursue this question, who employ selective data and faulty methodology (as Mr. Williams does) and who come to the conclusion that the genocide was nothing more than "war propaganda" do all this out of simple historical curiousity. Normally, one bends the facts with an agenda in mind: a defense of the Nazis, or a justification of anti-Jewish ideology. If Mr. Williams's agenda is innocent of such bias, then he is twice over a fool.

Since the war, the Nazi holocaust of the Jews in particular (who made up about half of the victims) has been instrumentalized as an ideological justification for Israeli settlement and US foreign policy. It's also the case that the Jewish side of the Nazi holocaust has been emphasized to the exclusion of the other groups who were targeted. A political correctness has been imposed around even applying the word to the many genocides that have taken place since 1945. (Finkelstein offers an excellent study of all this, as does the historian Robert Novick.) None of this contradicts the reality of the Nazi holocaust.

The Nazi regime instituted an extermination policy, which was documented meticulously by its own bureaucracy. An attempt was mounted to kill every Jew, Roma and Sinti, communist party member, Slavic intellectual, person with "unworthy life" (the mentally handicapped), and anyone who offered resistance. 10-12 million civilian captives of the regime were killed by various means, but with intent: mass transport in airless cattle cars, imprisonment in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions without adequate food so that the people died off from disease and starvation; systematic beatings and executions; "work to death" programs; and, finally, gas chambers. Such an enormous crime doesn't lend itself to absolute exactitude, though again the Nazis tried hard to keep track of their own doings. If the numbers of those killed by these policies were on the lower end of that scale, it was not for a lack of trying on the regime's part.

The holocaust victims are, of course, only a fraction of the 50 million people killed in the Nazi war of aggression, half of them civilians, about a tenth of them Germans including the 600,000 German civilians vaporized by Allied bombings, often to no strategic end.

In the first two months of the Russian campaign, which began in June, the Wehrmacht took three million Soviet POWs. The Nazis gathered them in fields, put fences around them and let the rain fall on them until, by November most of them were dead. No gas chamber necessary, although Russian prisoners were used as the first experimental subjects for gassing (using the exhaust fumes from a truck).

My parents' country, a neutral nation, was invaded by Germany solely because it presented a strategic obstacle. Our ethnic group was considered an inferior race, and subjected to massacres and an urban starvation policy. My grandfather fell in combat defending his country against that invasion. So I suppose I also have personal reasons why I won't seek or tolerate excuses for semi-literate garage historians who lie to minimize the Nazi crimes, or explain to us how "the Jews" somehow brought it on themselves.

(That Williams also massacres the English language probably annoys me more than it should.)

Sometimes war propaganda picks up on true facts. However, it's not even true that the Nazi holocaust was a prominent subject of wartime propaganda. Allied wartime propaganda actually minimized the massacre of the Jews in particular, to avoid the impression the war was being fought on their behalf. It was only much later that this history was popularized.

In many ways this was a logical consequence of an economic system pushed to its ultimate crisis, and of the racist and eugenicist ideologies widespread through all of the imperialist countries at that time (and sadly surviving in altered form to this day). That's also part of what the holocaust deniers usually want to deny.

Reprehensor, I have a feeling you know all of the above very well. I'd like to hear more acknowledgement (not just from you) that the present dispute is not just about PR. I expect you know that, but your post isn't clear, and I think, by including sources for critiques of Zionism and the modern-day "holocaust ideology," you are almost trying to appease certain others on this board and in this movement who may share Williams's ideas.

I'll say it: this is not only about PR.

I will agree with you that attempts to revise the historical narrative of the Holocaust that are motivated by a desire to trivialize/minimize the suffering of Jews or any of the other groups targeted by the Nazis should earn only contempt from those of us engaged in revising the historical narrative of 9/11.

The problem is that we must be able to discuss Israel, Mossad, and extremist Zionism (the parallel to American imperialism) in a rational, honest, and fearless fashion. As it stands, these discussions inevitably lead to accusations of anti-Semitism.

The majority of posters on this board who want to talk about Israel's role in 9/11 are also people who want to prevent a Holocaust in which the primary victims are Muslims. Privileging research and discussion about al Qaeda, Pakistan, and Muslim hijackers while prohibiting inquiry into Israel's role does not advance this goal.


"The problem is that we must be able to discuss Israel, Mossad, and extremist Zionism (the parallel to American imperialism) in a rational, honest, and fearless fashion. As it stands, these discussions inevitably lead to accusations of anti-Semitism."

Of course. You know what else? We also must be able to leave aside false dichotomies. One can agree with every word you say, and still also accept the following:

I don't see that discussion about al Qaeda, Pakistan and Muslim (alleged) hijackers is in any way privileged on this board. Mentioning these topics in whatever context, even by those who lay primary responsibility with US operations, will usually inspire multiple attacks from those who warn of "limited hangout" and fears that the "war on terror" will magically be justified if we admit that there actually people in the Muslim world who'd love to massacre Americans (like this would be a surprise after all that's been done to them! like they wouldn't have a reason!). I think that's bullshit.

It's true that genocide has been aimed at Muslim peoples, above all in Iraq, but it doesn't follow that the way to avoid it is to show Israeli involvement in 9/11, for which the evidence is peripheral or weak, compared to a US operation.

Many of those who talk about "Israel's role in 9/11" tend to infer it circularly from their assumption that there must be one, and act as though only the PC fear of being labeled an anti-Semite prevents everyone from seeing it.

Three examples:

- There were dozens of reported advance warnings and indicators of foreknowledge, but sometimes it seems that only one instant message really matters, because it came from (gasp) Israelis.

- The Mossad apparently provided the names of the alleged lead hijackers to the US, but all these right-wing analysts like Justin Raimondo know that this information was intentionally kept vague so as to facilitate 9/11 (because a vague FOXNEWS report told them so).

- Sixty of the 120 alleged Israeli spies (and if they were spies as opposed to common racketeers then they had a really weird MO!) were arrested before 9/11, yet in many a telling they are turned into the masterminds of the whole operation.

You can't pretend that there aren't a goodly number of people with automatic Israel-did-it bias insinuating their way into this movement. Yes, Israel is practicing apartheid, ethnic cleansing and worse on the Palestinians and using every means ideological and otherwise to bully the world into accepting that. Yes, Israel is a hidden reason for the Iraq invasion and pretty much the only ally in the plan to attack Iran. Yes, many of the neocons who engineered Iraq and the "war on terror" are devoted to Israel. At the same time, the evidence of Israeli (per se) involvement in 9/11 is weak. These statements are not inherently contradictory.

it is not a false dichotomy

There is a huge difference between:

a) the really were hijackings perpetrated by Arab Muslims who slaughtered the crews and commandeered the airplanes into death-bringing missiles of hate... despite multiple warnings from America's friends. AND

b) the demolition of the world trade center was disguised as the result of a "terrorist attack" that never actually took place as advertised, such that all those helpful warnings amount to the creation of a seemingly plausible but false narrative implicating Arab (and Pakistani) Muslims in a vicious attack on America.

To suggest that this is a false dichotomy is absurd. Narratives that accept the hijacker stories do so on no solid evidence of hijackings taking place.

The demolition of the world trade center is an undeniable, self-evident fact, however, as is the identity of the leaseholder who took control of the doomed buildings only 6 weeks before their destruction.

The fact that the same people who downplay the importance of physical evidence in this case are the same people who insist on devoting special attention to Pakistan all the the while dismissing those who prefer to focus on Israel's much more damning role (dancing Israelis, numerous spies, etc.) as motivated by bigotry is nothing short of a dead giveaway as to the tactics being used to suppress the account that is most likely true.

Finally, conflating the 9/11 issue with historical revisionism viz the holocaust is simply a way of making people think (depending on their initial position) that questioning 9/11 is akin to denying the holocaust occured or that suspecting Israeli involvement in 9/11 is.

The common thread there is not bigotry, sorry to disappoint you. It is the willingness to go against the dominant belief system to determine facts about history unvarnished by media manipulation. Anyone on the fence about this issue who has not yet seen Jewish atheist David Cole's video on Auschwitz should do so before forming knee-jerk opinions about those who raise questions about the accuracy of the holocaust narrative. Don't worry, no one denies that it occured, as some would have you believe. See for yourself what the big deal is...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Interesting AZ development

It appears that Mr. Williams is no longer to be described as "webmaster" or "conference director" but rather "vendor coordinator."

AZ Conference Contact Page

Nonetheless, he is still on the list of speakers (which includes the link to his website) and on the program in a couple of spots, including presenting the mission statement.

He needs to make a clean break.

This minor change is wholly inadequate.

Any official connection between Eric Williams and the conference will be a public relations nightmare.

This demonstrates a serious lack of judgement.

I think it's time people start rethinking their relationship with this conference and the AZ group putting it on. I have a very difficult time believing that either Dr. Jones or Dr. Barrett will want to be associated with this conference if a published Holocaust denier (in his own words "alleged Holocaust") is officially connected to it.

Mr. Williams, if you care about 9/11 Truth, do the right thing and remove yourself completely from any official connection to the conference.

You're absolutely right that it's inadequate.

I'm just hoping that it's a sign the gears may be moving in the group and a process may be underway to ditch the guy altogether if he reluctant to do the right thing and step down immediately and completely for the sake of 9/11 Truth.

I share your feeling that speakers are going to be dropping this engagement like a hot potato if the situation is not rectified.

Ya, what you guys said.

we are all in agreement. On an optimistic note, I think that this implies that many others in the movement also recognize the gravity of the situation, and that it may very well be resolved, better late than never. My less optimistic tone is represented in my other post below. And as suggested, if he doesn't drop out, the conference might just be a bust for lack of attendance.

Once again, I'm really feeling for the well intentioned people in the Arizona 9/11 truth group. If I was them, I'd be flipping a gasket right now. If any of them are reading this, you are at the front lines of our battle for the truth and we wish you the best.

International Truth Movement

And here we are.

As we were discussing yesterday, we both hoped that this controversy would find a solid resolution, but as I feared, instead this may turn out to be a disaster. It looks like the only change made was superficial. What cover does that provide? Not an acceptable response to your letter, which certainly mirrored many other's that he received.

What message does this send out? How does this play? Are they going to at least write a response for their website? Are people going to have to walk into this blind? Are they going to kick people out who are vocally upset when Eric takes the stage? I feel critically under-informed, and this issue requires an immediate and direct response from these people. Imagine if someone high up in Moveon made a racist remark. The next day they would have an official statement on every related website. I'll be patient for a couple more days.

This is really looking like it could be an incredibly divisive moment for the movement. What can we do to prevent that chaos? Should people not go? Should people go and protest Eric Williams involvement? I don't think we can just act like the elephant isn't in the room.

Now admittedly, the movement doesn't want to splash this controversy all over the place. But the best way to have prevented that would have been Williams walking away. Now its not just another 9/11 conference. Its the infamous Eric Williams conference, before it even happens.

I suppose since it looks like this is going to get worse before it gets better, we should probably consider the best way to respond. We have a bit of a PR battle on our hands, and those who find all this unacceptable must make their voices heard.

Thanks again for staying on top of this. I saved the original page for future reference.

International Truth Movement

Fuck that

I don't want to be associated with him.

Thanks for the update. 

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Give Me A Break

screwed on the reply post -- this is a reply to this:

So you are 'okay' with "Murderous Zionist Landlord" but have a problem with "Evil Zionist Landlord"?

Are you stupid in the head, or what?

You seriously make yourself look bad there.

I haven't paid enough attention to tell which one of you is the worse Idiot, but it could very easily be both of you equally.

Ad hominem per factum, beyotch!
You are undeservedly egotistical.... often laughably so.
Pseudo-intellectuality does not behoove you.

mmmmm.... douuuuughnut...

Hello Professor Doughnut. Wouldn't it be best to judge things in context? This was posted in response to a blog that said that LIHOP and MIHOP were the same thing, because if they let it happen they essentially made it happen. And so I pointed out what the difference actually is. I purposely used language to describe Silverstein as part of a MIHOP scenario that was on the level with the dominant narrative implied by a LIHOP scenario. Go ahead and seize on this if you want, but I'm not sure what you think you're proving, John--er, I mean Doughnut. :)

p.s. Patsystan!

Here's the original post:

LIHOP=Murderous Arab Muslims
And MIHOP=Murderous Zionist Landlord

I think the difference is clear. And really, given that the towers were demolished by bombs, not the planes, what does LIHOP dangerously come close to suggesting? That Bush let the evil Arab Muslim terrorists rig poor Larry Silverstein's buildings with explosives. Makes no sense, but a lot of people desperately want to cling to the notion that only evil Arab Muslims go around blowing up innocent people. LIHOP allows for that, true MIHOP makes us face the ugly but ultimately necessary and healing truth.

Arab Muslims were framed on 9/11. That is the worst crime commited that day since it enabled wars that have led to as many Americans being killed as on 9/11, plus the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the Middle East. Let alone the unquantifiable damages suffered by Arabs and Muslims everywhere unjustly tainted by association with fictional hijackings.

"Among the 'spider-man' skeptics are those who claim that no human can shoot web and stick to walls... They conveniently ignore the fact that he was bitten by a radioactive spider."

Daily Bugle editorial debunking the claims of spider-man deniers

Submitted by Real Truther on Fri, 09/29/2006 - 11:03am.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force