New Justin Raimondo Article on the Israelis - "The High Fivers"

The High-Fivers
More proof the Israelis were shadowing the 9/11 hijackers
by Justin Raimondo

It was the tail-end of a bleak November, 2001: a pall of shocked numbness hung over the country, and a rising war hysteria had nearly everyone cowed. Americans were just beginning to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and focus on what had happened, and how to react. It was very early on the morning of the 23rd when, scanning the headlines, I came across a Washington Post story by John Mintz: "60 Israelis Detained on Tourist Visas Since Sept. 11." Odd, I thought, why go after the Israelis, probably the least likely suspects?

The subhead was even more intriguing: "Government Calls Several Cases 'of Special Interest,’ Meaning Related to Post-Attacks Investigation." Apparently organized groups of Israelis had been arrested, and "dozens" held without bond. Inquiries to the Justice Department had yielded this response:

"In several cases, such as those in Cleveland and St. Louis, INS officials testified in court hearings that they were 'of special interest to the government,’ a term that federal agents have used in many of the hundreds of cases involving mostly Muslim Arab men who have been detained around the country since the terrorist attacks.

"An INS official who requested anonymity said the agency will not comment on the Israelis. But he said the use of the term 'special interest’ means the case in question is 'related to the investigation of September 11th.’"

It wasn’t some anti-Semitic conspiracy crank sitting in his parents’ basement, or Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who first linked Israeli nationals to the events of 9/11: it was the U.S. government, specifically its law enforcement arm.

Continued at:

Coming to the correct conlcusion is what counts

Raimondo describes an Israeli shadow army "tracking the hijackers."

See, there's evidence of the Israelis. Evidence of the hijackers, though, not so much.

Evidence of Israeli agents celebrating.

Evidence of actual hijackings taking place? Ummm, no, not really.

So we have a shadow army in our country for lord knows how long, culminating in a bizarre "terrorist attack" involving the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center complex which had been taken over just 6 weeks before by a personal friend of Israeli right wing leader Benjamin Netanyahu.

Come on. Don't give me any crap about this not looking quite possibly like a covert Israeli/American Neocon false flag op.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


ANother great essay by Kevin Barrett - must read

Amen, brother!

It is time for the West to relinquish its myth that a religious minority, perceived as brown-skinned and Semitic, spills blood as a function of its religious identity. And it is time for Jews, the main victims of such libels in the past, to stand up for their Muslim brothers and sisters, and speak out against today's greatest blood libel: the myth of "Islamic terrorism."


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Why shadow patsies?

As so many people here are fond of claiming the 19 alleged hijackers were simply patsies (which they may have been) - and Pakistan is simply a patsy (which they clearly are not)- and Israel is in fact complicit in the attacks..... then why would Israel expend their valuable intelligence resources to 'shadow' these insignificant patsies?

Additionally - If Israel was working "in concert" with the United States to facilitate and coordinate these attacks - then why all the cloak and dagger spying at all?

If they were "in on it" and this was a "Mossad" operation - why would the Mossad go to the trouble of cloaking their actions by depending on 5 men in a van to video tape the event? If Israel was working "in concert" with the United States they would have enjoyed top level privileges - and the sharing of information (to make it possible) - and would not have needed to send "art students" to SPY on us. If they were PARTNERS with us in coordinating these attacks, hand in hand with Dick Cheney and the neo-cons, would they really have needed to insert spies into the equation? Why would they need the men in the van? Would they NOT have been privy to all the intelligence they needed if they were working "from the inside"?? Hell, they would have been standing side by side with our own black ops in Building 7. Why would they opt for the 'conspicuous' option of filming from a van with spies?

No. Israel has the best intelligence agencies in the world. The 9/11 plot was picked up on their radar and they tracked it every step of the way. You COULD say they are guilty for not trying to stop the attacks more aggressively. But, besides the fact that their intelligence services appear to have had foreknowledge - the case has not been made that Israel was responsible for these attacks - and, in fact, the evidence seems to discount this possibility.

where to begin!

Who said that the US government, other than a few rogue neocons like Cheney and Rumsfeld had to be in on it? This was a covert op, period, and as such no one was going to be given a little card saying "part of sanctioned covert op, disreagrd".

So let me get this straight, Mr. A. According to you, Israel was not shadowing the patsies as part of a joint investigation with the US. So what were they doing in our country? Shadowing the patsies to stop them? Obviously not. Shadowing the patsies to simply watch what they would do, and document it on video and cheer them on? What sense does that make?

The obvious conclusion that you seem not to want to come to is that because by your own logic the Israelis would not have had to be sneaking around if what they were doing was sanctioned by the USG. So it was not. And neither was the conspiring of Cheney and Rumsfeld with regard to what happened that day.

The question may well be did Cheney and Rumsfeld know about the Israeli spies? Did they know what their mission was? Or were the spies thrown in for some reason we don't yet know? Did they include a team of explosives experts allowed by Silverstein to rig the towers for demolition? Did Cheney and Rumsfeld know this was part of the plan? Or did they just know about the war games turned real, the spectacular plane attaacks that likely would have been enough without the demolition of the WTC to achieve their objectives?

I'm glad at least that you are finally coming out blatantly in favor of LIHOP, Mr. A. And that, according to Kevin Barrett (and I agree 100%) is a means of preserving the anti-muslim blood libel without which the entire 9/11 fantasy falls apart.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


The usual accusation that i am LIHOP

which is not true.

Your response seems to be all over the map, but never really seems to come in for a landing.

If this was truly a joint USA/Israel MIHOP operation, with the hijackers serving no other role than as ornaments, Israel would have no reason to be assigning spies to shadow their every move. Period.

Shadow their every move?

On what evidence do you base that claim? The addresses of two separate teams being near each other? That's pretty flimsy given the source of those addresses.

So how are you NOT LIHOP if you really believe that muslims hijacked the planes, and that the Bush admin let them do it? I'm confused by your rejection of the label. It's fine if you reject it, but you have to say what you actually believe. It sure sounds like you believe LIHOP is the answer. And why do YOU think the Israelis would have not done anything to alert US authorities of the specific time day and nature of the attacks, which they must have known? And why the celebrating? Shouldn't they have been gnashing their teeth at having failed their ally? Or are you implying that the Israelis LET IT HAPPEN ON PURPOSE?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Always putting me on the defensive

How am i not LIHOP?

"but you have to say what you actually believe"

actually - not. i have always felt that the more mature approach to 911 activism is to compile all the evidence and confront the media and government and public with it. i have always felt that activists who insist that we 'take position' on the Pentagon or Israel or the Hijackers are actually serving to divide us - because 100% of us will NEVER agree 100% on the issue.

All too often RT you get testy with people who simply do not subscribe to your opinions.

My film CLEARLY shows that the alleged pilot of Flight 77 could NOT have possibly flown that plane. So when you state: "So how are you NOT LIHOP if you really believe that muslims hijacked the planes" you are clearly misrepresenting my position.

I would like to point out that the terms LIHOP and MIHOP were coined by the most divisive member of this movement - Nico Haupt - who IMMEDIATELY began dividing us by accusing people of not being PURE ENOUGH in their activism. He began demanding people declare their beliefs.

You can see where that has led us.

I do not have to declare my beliefs. My opinions are OPINIONS. Your opinion are OPINIONS.

my only objective is my work is to stimulate interest in the subject - ask questions - demonstate that the official story is a lie - and demand ACCOUNTABILITY from the public.

Your approach seems to be to state your opinions as fact. you STATE that Pakistan is simply a patsy. you STATE that there was no plane at the Pentagon. and you seem to demand that others sign an oath of loyalty to your beliefs.

Some possible answers...

"... then why would Israel expend their valuable intelligence resources to 'shadow' these insignificant patsies?"
--To maintain their own cover story? To make sure the Arab patsies didn't do anything off-script?

"Why would they opt for the 'conspicuous' option of filming from a van with spies?"
--Weren't these 5 guys posing AS ARABS? Wouldn't it make sense to be as conspicuous as possible, drive to different locations, create a scene about celebrating, carry explosives, box cutters, etc. just to frame ARABS? Isn't that what a false-flag op is all about?

Your conclusion shows that you're begging the question. Are you being honest, or is this deliberate disinfo?

Sorry, but I have to go with Real Truther on this.

I don't think they meant to get pulled over...

But yes, they were dressed as Arabs, and someone had called suspiciously to report "men dressed in those sheikh costumes" messing around on one of New York's bridges. Then of course once they were pulled over, they said that "the Palestinians are your problem".

I just can't see what kind of "shadowing hijackers" this represented. It sure does seem like so many other instances where US, Israeli, and British covert ops have planted evidence and otherwise commited false flag terror ops.

Remember, being implicated in huge crimes together is what keeps the elites united. 9/11 was just more of the same--the question of specifics will come out in an investigation that leaves no stone, no matter how taboo, unturned.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Accusations of Disinfo

One of the things i have consistently noticed about the Israel discussion is that it almost always results in personal accusations of one sort of another.

I have already been called LIHOP and Disinfo.

The reverse is true to. the word antisemitism is thrown around.

I suggest we simply discuss the evidence based on its merits.

It is just my opinion that the key evidence in this case - the art students - the van - the shadowing of the 'patsies' indicates almost 100% foreknowledge of the attacks - but, is weak in making the case of complicity.

Now - i just disagree with you. Lets not turn this into a German opera.

Not so

1. You have not been called disinfo. I simply asked a question, and you answered it. I assume it's that you're being honest.

2. "I suggest we simply discuss the evidence based on its merits." Absolutely! I think we all agree on this.

3. We all want to avoid personal accusations, as well as the dreaded "A" word.

4. What have you got against German opera?

the German opera

references how this discussion has digressed in the past. i've seen this topic get pretty ugly and want to head it off at the pass before it does again.

when you are asking me if i am employing disinformation you are basically asking me if i am intentionally passing off false information.

what we have here are slightly different INTERPRETATIONS of the evidence available.

Why down vote legitimate questions?

I can't help but notice that the Israel topic consistently get censored.

This community is FAR from unified on this topic.


Number 1, the so called 19 Hijackers as far as we know for sure might not even exist at all.
We know at least a few of the alleged hijackers are still alive and we really don't have any real evidence that any of them were on any of the planes.

So this is MIHOP

factions of the Pakistani Gov we know for a fact were involved.

This is MIHOP

It is quite likely Israel was involved, even though all there is is circumstantial evidence there is enough of it and all of it leads to the same place to draw a conclusion that they could very likely be involved.
As far as Mossad tracking what is happening, why wouldn't they?
They sure as hell wouldn't trust the Bush administration to give them any reliable info, and as incompetent and ignorant as Bush is they may have felt a need to over see what was going on.

Then again it is possible they just KNEW it was going to happen just like apparently 1/2 the planet did and they just sent agents to watch and record.

This is still MIHOP

Your position

Is very close to mine. It does not draw conclusions from the evidence - because the evidence is not conclusive.

at best we can speculate on the possibilities. there is some smoke. and where there's smoke.....

I'm sorry, which half of the planet knew?

And on what do you base this assertion? On reports that several intel agencies warned BushCo about hijackers that didn't hijack planes that day?

And your explanation of what may have motivated the Israelis is just bizarre, sorry. What the hell business of theirs is it?

So, they wouldn't trust Bush to give them any info, which is probably why they have so many spies in the US, and that is OK with you?

Here's a tip--anyone who thinks it's Mossad's job to "oversee" a terrorist plot in the US has some weird idea of what national sovereignty means.

Finally, you seem so sure about Pakistani involvement. Based on what? A wire transfer to a man who hijacked nothing? Um, do you know what circumstancial evidence is?

MIHOP is not some magical phrase. It is simply the word for "not LIHOP". Accepting MIHOP over LIHOP is the first step--once people get there then they can try to figure out WHO made it happen and how. The WHY will then become apparent.

So where does Silverstein fit into the picture? Was he working with Pakistan? Or was he an innocent victim?


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



I really have to wonder why you still distort the Pakistan evidence. i KNOW this has been mapped out for you over and over again.

it is NOT just the money transfer. it is the entire HISTORY of Pakistan the CIA the ISI the Taliban and AL Qaeda - and how they all served the interests of US black ops and created the 911 cover story - building faux terrorist camps and sponsoring the cover stories and aiding the taliban's escape and the proximity of the the ISI on the say of the attacks and the TOTAL lack of accountability. the list goes on and on and on.

its kinda dishonest to claim that the wire transfer is the only evidence.

I base that

assertion on the fact that the Bush Administration received at least 50 warnings from about 12 different countries.

You are going a bit off the wall and apparently don't have a clue what I just said, and I'm not too inclined to start into a tail chasing argument with you.

You have your undies wadded to tight to know that I'm actually agreeing with you...LOL

But sorry I'm not at all interested in arguing with you about it just so you can misunderstand everything I say all over again.

RT and JA - A Pie in Both Your Faces

Come on guys, do you have to do this every week?

I know that you're both intelligent and really want to solve this puzzle, so you need to do one of three things:

1) Stop speculating beyond the known facts, or

2) Agree to disagree, make a bet and work really hard to get new investigations so we will know what actually happened, or

3) Set your egos aside, have a civil debate based on the known facts and logic and arrive at a speculative narrative that you both agree on.

That said, I just have to add my two cents here.

(please make my creme pie chocolate)

Start with the knowns:

1) 19 Arab/Muslim patsies to be framed as hijackers that have to be real people with real histories to make the myth plausible.

2) Several groups of Israelis totaling about 200 spread around the country, many very close to the patsy "hijackers"

3) Israelis caught taking video of the Twin Towers being destroyed. Their (Mossad) connected van is found to have explosive residue in it.

4) The CIA is prohibited by law from conducting domestic surveillance.

5) The CIA, Mossad and MI6 often ask each other to spy within their own country to circumvent these laws, avoid oversight and maintain plausible deniability.

6) If the CIA follows the protocols they would ask the FBI to follow the "hijackers" but most field agents would do their jobs too well and the patsies would get busted, like Moussawi did, and then you have no patsies. Additionally, the incompetence excuse would not be plausible as there would be too much FBI documented foreknowlege.

7) Patsies have to be observed/managed so their movements can be plausibly woven into the myth.

8) If US Military intelligence acted as the primary observer/manager of the patsies you run the risk of having your operation exposed through oversight (AbleDanger) and either preempt the operation or blow the incompetence excuse by having too much foreknowledge.

9) Saudi Royals and the ISI provide much (if not all) of the funding for the patsies vacation in the US.

Now, given that we know the government myth all too well, what probably happened?

The patsies are allowed into the country (many with express visas from Saudi Arabia courtesy of the CIA). Some of the patsies are trained by the US military and/or the CIA (Atta for sure), but most are just monitored and allowed to come and go as they wish.

The CIA asks the Mossad to track these "possible terrorists" in the US and report back. Note that the Mossad agents don't need to know anything about the 9/11operation to perform this function. The Mossad keeps a close but careful eye on them and lets the CIA know what's going on. Also note that the Mossad tracks more than just the 19 as some patsies may need to be replaced at the last minute (as, in fact, happened).

Before 9/11/01 the Mossad "warns" the CIA of a "terrorist plot in the US" to provide a cover story for their foreknowledge and explain their massive presence in the US. Once again, please note that the Mossad field agents would not need to know about the 9/11 operation and could feel that they did their jobs correctly.

Just before 9/11/011 ISI/al Qaeda double agent Saeed Sheikh wires $100k to Atta. This provides the cover story for the link between the "hijackers" and al Qaeda. At this time some of the "hijackers" quietly return to their home countries, others may assume new identities or are killed, some may have been slipped out on the Saudi flights right after 9/11 with false documents. Some could've even been on the 9/11 planes. (let's find out, shall we?)

On 9/11/01 Atta and al-Omari do their screwy trip from Maine to Logan and disappear. We know that the "hijackers" don't have to be on the planes for the operation to go forward and the government has not proved them to be on the planes as of today.

The "dancing Israelis" are caught video taping the destruction of the WTC in New Jersey. They are intentionally provocative when they don't need to be indicating that they wanted to get caught (mistakes like this just don't happen). They are documenting the event because no one has ever demolished buildings like this before and they want a record. They get caught so as to further confuse the story about possible Israeli involvement and create a perverse form of negative cover (cynically playing the anti-Semitism card).

The only real hitches in these aspects of the operation occur when Lt. Gen Ahmed of the ISI gets exposed and quickly retires and when Abu Zubaydah was shot while being captured and an alert FBI agent prevented him from dying. Zubaydah then named some Saudi princes as having 9/11 foreknowledge (who then died in short order).

Please note that I have yet to fully study and assimilate Ali Mohamed's role into the 9/11 operation.

Gentlemen, and any ladies, I look forward to your candid and civil critiques.

Bring on the dark chocolate creme pie!

I hope that you and yours are all well.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

let's have fun with letters

urban MOving SystemS incorporAteD = MOSSAD

First of all, let's see

First of all, let's see where Raimondo stands on 9/11. In September he wrote this hit piece:

in which he mocks truth activists for "prattling on" about controlled demolition at the WTC, and idea which he describes as "daffy." He also says the failure of US air defense was obviously due to "simple incompetence," and laughs at anyone who suggests otherwise.

It is with this in mind that we should view his interpretation of the "art student spy ring" that allegedly followed the allegedly Arab hijackers. He detailed this in his book Terror Enigma, and it was also covered in a story by Karl Cameron which aired on Fox News.

That a Mossad spy ring would have followed around a bunch of Arab hijackers is ridiculous for all the reasons listed by John Albanese. The only way it makes sense is if the spy ring was meant to discovered, to lead us to believe that the Israeli role was limited to "foreknowledge" and LIHOP-- and not something much greater and more sinister. That's why the "art students" made such a big show of themselves, knocking on the doors of federal agents and such. The whole operation was a diversion; it was meant to be revealed, to lead us away from the true role of the Israelis in 9/11-- which is that they conceived of the whole operation and carried it out.

This is called a "limited hang out,"-- you accept guilt for a small role in a crime, so that your much larger role goes unnoticed. The Israelis know the Americans will forgive them for only "knowing about" the supposed al-Qaeda plot, but not telling us; as long as the truly dastardly figures are still thought to have been the Arab fanatics.

Real Truther, you are wrong that there were no hijackers. The phone calls clearly indicate there were, although there is no evidence those hijackers on the planes were Arabs. They could have just as easily have been dark-skinned agents playing the role of Arabs, so that the Arabs would be framed when the passengers relayed their false impression of an Arab hijacking via their phone calls.

As for the "hijackers" being followed around by the spy ring, they may have been Mossad agents themselves, who happened to have the appearance of Arabs. They had assumed the identities of the Arab patsies-- some of whom are of course still alive-- and then paraded around the US in completing the sheep-dipping process. That explains why they were so often out on the town, drinking and getting lap dances and such-- activities most un-Islamic, but to be expected from an arrogant Mossad spy.


Part of the war games

involved inserting REAL TIME mock hijackings into the exercise - in which agents would play the role of hijackers in real time.

this is speculation - but, if it is true that Atta trained at Maxwell airforce base - and seemed to be tied in with the CIA drug running money laundering paradigm - he COULD have been a trained pilot agent who was called on to participate in the war games - as a patsy - a dirty agent that they used to create the mythology.

this COULD explain why the Pentagon stepped in to stop Able Danger from arresting him.

Maxwell airforce base is KNOWN for training foreign pilots in service to the USA.

This is not LIHOP.

but - again - it is speculation. some of the pieces fit. others do not.

I'm open to being convinced of hijackers

but I don't think phone calls are proof. I tend to believe more in electronically flown drone Boeings, but I'm not wedded to that since I have no proof. On the other hand I find it hard to believe the staged hijacking story. I suppose it's a possibility, but I have trouble imagining that scenario. Were the passengers told that they were taking part in a drill? What kind of agent would otherwise agree to participate in a drill where passengers were unaware that it was a drill?

And then the planes were flown into the buildings, conveniently enough to create a cover story for the pre-planted explosives demolishing the towers?

Nah, I think the essence of this whole thing was an emphasis on theatre, special effects (as in pyrotechinics not video fakery), and a fake cast of characters. I believe the reality to be fairly simple, notwithstanding how many people were convinced/bribed/tricked to play a part.

They knew once the shit all went down, anyone daring to talk about what they knew, which would only be a small part of the bigger picture, would be laughed at and scorned, implicated themselves, or intimidated into retraction or silence.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Good questions

Have you ever looked at the passenger list of Flight 77? It appears that the overwhelming majority of the passengers were in the military/intelligence community. They may have been observers for the war games. Their role was top secret - so even their families did not know. But - many people HAVE asked why the plane was so empty.

"Have you ever looked at the

"Have you ever looked at the passenger list of Flight 77? It appears that the overwhelming majority of the passengers were in the military/intelligence community. They may have been observers for the war games. Their role was top secret - so even their families did not know. But - many people HAVE asked why the plane was so empty."

The plane was so empty because the conspirators chose low occupancy flights so as to minimize the risk of a passenger revolt. The plane was full of military/intelligence people because it was out of Dulles-- although certain people may have been manipulated onto the flights and to their deaths a la John O'Neill. Otherwise, the only "role" of the passengers was to be victims of 9/11.

how do you "choose a low occupancy flight"?

How do you plan this in advance, time it just right, AND be able to pick between several flights for the emptiest ones? Sounds much weird to me.

I think the planes were so empty because there weren't that many people who wanted in on this Northwoods inspired fake your death scam.

I know I can't prove that, but it's really not that important. Bottom line is the planes did not cause the buildings to collapse, and there is no credible evidence of Arab Muslims having been involved.

If we got to the bottom of the WTC demolition I'm sure we would find out the truth about the planes.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


"I think the planes were so

"I think the planes were so empty because there weren't that many people who wanted in on this Northwoods inspired fake your death scam."

Their deaths were not faked!  They were real!  The passengers were not  fake, they were real, and their deaths are real.

Operation Northwoods has nothing to do with 9/11.  Operation N'woods never happened.  It was firmly rejected by President Kennedy and others.  The plotters of 9/11 may have learned a lesson from that: no plot that requires a large government conspiracy to carry out.   

it's not a large GOVERNEMENT conspiracy

It's more like Enron. A bunch of citizens with connections in the government pull off a big crime under people's noses and because of tehir connections no real investigation happens. Enron was a huge criminal conspiracy that no one knew about until it was too late because no one reported on it. No one "squealed". It's easy to hide the fact that you are manipulating energy prices even when your employees are commenting to each other about ripping off grandmothers in california if no one bothers to print a huge headline story about it. Two of those conspirators just got off with 2 years probation and "forfeiture" of 2 million (ill gotten) dollars. BOO HOO. Crime pays, that's the moral.

Probably more foreign agents and private citizens were involved in 9/11 than actual USG employees. Maybe just Cheney and Rumsfeld--who knows. But this was not a conspiracy OF the government it was a conspiracy in the government by criminals.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



and I assume most of the dirty work was outsourced to private or in the case of Urban Moving Systems probably semi-private entities. What was the name of the company that meddled with FAA software again?

Hijackings not part of any drill..... they were real

"Were the passengers told that they were taking part in a drill? What kind of agent would otherwise agree to participate in a drill where passengers were unaware that it was a drill?"

This is not my scenario at all. It was no drill. It was all real: the hijackings, the stabbings of stewardesses, the passengers herded into the back. Then the actual planes flown into the buildings-- either by the hijackers or by some remote guidance system quickly installed by the hijackers. It was all too real. The only part of it that was fake was that the hijackers were not Arabs at all, but professional commandos playing the role of Arabs so as to frame Arabs.

But you're right about the emphasis on theater. The events on the plane were staged so as to maximize the horror-- real horror-- experienced by the passengers, so they would convey that to the rest of America via their phone calls, and so the rest of America became enraged enough to support wars in the Middle East.

suicide commandos? i don't find that very persuasive...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


I don't blame you. But ask

I don't blame you. But ask yourself, do we know the hijackers stayed on the planes as they flew to their targets? It is possible to exit an airliner in flight with a parachute.  Sounds exotic, but Navy SEALS do it all the time. I'll be writing a blog about that in a few days.

I think that this more than

I think that this more than a limited hangout. If you have paid attention a schism has been developing between the criminal partnership that existed between the old guard criminal intelligence establishment led by Bush Sr., based in this country, and the newer Neocon/LIkud/Israeli faction led by Cheney and other prominent neocons in this country and Israel(Netanayhu).

Basically, there is now a real fear amongst that this criminal enterprise, which used 911 as its lynchpin to obtain its goals (global economic hegemoney through neoliberal privitization, U.S. domestic political control, middle-east and central asian oil hegemony, Israeli geographic and oil security), is going to come undone.

It has become clear to the old guard (Bush/gates/Baker) that aggressive pre-emptive war against moslem nations worldwide may help Israel obtains its geographic security and resrouce security, at least in the short to medium term; these interests are not one and the same of those security aims for the United States.

It is clear that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have not gone as Bush and his evangelical Israeli-phillic friends were told by the neocons led by Cheney, Rumsfield, Sharon, and Netanyahu. This war has had disastrous consequences for U.S. economic and political strength; with now over 3,000 dead American troops. But what to do?

Well, Bush Sr. and Baker want to negotiate with Syria and Iran; but this would leave the job undone as far as Cheney, Ledeen, Netanayu and the neocons are concerned, so naturally they are pushing for more war. But this would lead to disastrous consequences for this country and Bush Sr. knows it. Meanwhile Bush Jr. (and Cheney) knows that capitulation from the orginal plan would mean that 911, the most treasonous act by any group of individuals in U.S. history, may have been for nought. It is just too much for the Bush to consider, so he keeps pushing for more war, evn though it would mean disaster for the country; ergo Bush is "delusional".

meanwhile Israel could turn out to be the winner if they can keep using our troops in its proxy war. They get "order our of chaos" in all Muslim nations in the world, access to oil for northern Iraq, and with the world economy being run by a handful of individuals from a few money centers around the world, they can dominate via a contrived "matrix of control".

So? Who to blame? why the Israelis!!! Certainly Mossad was present, as was the DIA's ABLE Danger, and knew of the pending 911 psyops; a combination of LIHOP and MIHOP. So now we will get a psyops about the Urban Mover company, dancing Israelis, and the Art Students. This is only the beginning of a growing chorus of blame Israel; and hope that no one will look farther into the matter.

well done, thebigwedding!

we need more of your succint summations. i've had too much aspartame and msg to concentrate.

All too plausible...

....and infuriating...

I can think of no punishment too extreme for the High Perps.

yes, well done, TheBigWedding....

9/11 = TREASON

I agree there has likely been a schism and some double crossing

especially as the crime is exposed and the rats scurry off the sinking ship pointing fingers at each other. BUT I don't think Bush Senior has American security interests at heart. He has Bush security interests--always has, ever since he played his role in the JFK assassination. It's just the coming of age of a bunch of people who have a lot of dirt on each other from years of collaborating on behalf of the super-rich elites. Corrupt Americans and Israelis uniting the two countries in a sick embrace... that's why it's called the big wedding, by the way. US and Israel get hitched in anti-arab/muslim bliss...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



"The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards."- FOX (09/14/01) 


Focus on the botched crash scene at Shanksville.

Whole lotta speculation posing as fact around here.

I just spent the last week collecting hard facts about the 9/11 attacks:

In it, I addressed the Israeli topic:

45. Up to 200 Israeli agents were arrested and detained in relation to September 11th. This includes five Mossad agents who were celebrating the World Trade Center job with "cries of joy and mockery." The Justice Department (sic) released all of the Israelis, and the entire matter was made "classified."

46. "According to several Weehawken neighbors of the [Israeli MOSSAD front operation] Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the warehouse, discovered fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax. After anthrax was discovered, investigators wearing hazardous material suits went through the warehouse."

47. "On the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House Medical Office dispensed [the anthrax drug] Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David..." The public was not warned about anthrax or alerted about Cipro for another six weeks, when anthrax-laden letters were sent through the mail to top Democratic congressmen and to others.

48. "Palestinians" were accused of committing the 9/11 attacks by Israeli MOSSAD operatives. One of the arrested MOSSAD agents told the police, “We are Israelis, we are not your problem. Your problems are our problem. Palestinians are the problem.” A phone call to the "Jersey City Police Department ...claimed 'Palestinians' in Arab clothes were seen celebrating the attacks." Was this MOSSAD referring to their own covert agents? At 9:43am on 9/11, "Abu Dhabi television reports it received a call from the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, claiming responsibility for crashing two planes into the WTC. However leading officials later deny the claim."

49. Israeli instant messaging firm Odigo received warnings of the World Trade Center attacks 2 hours before they occurred.

50. Zim American / Israeli Shipping broke its lease in the World Trade Center and evacuated one week before the attacks. The company is 49% owned by the Israeli government.

51. Although the Israeli government sent MOSSAD officers to "warn" the U.S. about imminent terror attacks in August 2001: "'They had no specific information about what was being planned but linked the plot to Osama bin Laden and told the Americans that there were strong grounds for suspecting Iraqi involvement,' said a senior Israeli security official." Mixing Osama bin Laden together with his enemy Saddam Hussein has been a ridiculous propaganda exercise, and exposed as such.;$sessionid$52PMOXQAADW5PQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/09/16/ixhome

59. President Bush's brother Marvin Bush had been a director for Securacom (now Stratasec) that was in charge of security for the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport (where Flight 77 originated). An Israeli security firm, ICTS International had security responsibilities at Boston Logan airport and other airports involved in the September 11th attacks.

Those are facts.

If you want to start on about what the Israelis were actually doing, I have theories too, of course.

For starters, the "Art Students" were warning the government that something big was coming and it involved Israel. Israel is the third rail of US politics. Not one Congressman will say a negative thing about that pariah state. If Israel is involved, there will be a cover up. Everyone will cover their ass. We will not find out the truth. This is what happened. So, the theory is pretty strong. Congress is Israeli-occupied territory, and that was exploited.

Many of the top neocons are Israeli (dual citizenship), and/or strong Israeli sympathizers. The US media is heavily influenced by pro-Israeli owners. All of these things come together to bring the US potatos a skewed picture of reality. That is the mission of the "art students."

In addition, they apparently were working directly with explosives. We have the possibility that Israeli agents demolished the World Trade Center. This can't be proven at this time. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog

All information is vetted for accuracy. If you have a factual challenge to any of the information, email: johndoraemi --at--

just don't show this evidence to albanese...

these are quotes from earlier in the week...
"i have looked at the evidence - and while i certainly do see that the neo-conservatives share common interests with the Likud party in Israel - and Israel certainly may have had foreknowledge of the attacks - most of the attempts to link Israel directly to these attacks fall flat. I see no evidence of ANY operational support - financially - logistically - operationally - or otherwise. None. Zilch."
"is israel somehow tied to building 7? oh - and PLEASE do not tell me Silverstein is jewish."

i also came across his co-worker, ewing 2001's website where he has identified 'wolfowitz in sheeps clothing' as ryan dawson. wrong. idiot.

Yeah, his internet sleuthing skills

leave a great deal to be desired. It becomes especially obvious (and hysterical) when you are yourself the target -- and can see how completely far off he is.

the attempted bombing of the

the attempted bombing of the mexican national parliament building in oct 2001 by mossad agents

caught red handed with bombs

is the smoking gun of mossad involvement

i've been having a pretty good discussion with a jew----telling him how it wasnt "the jews" that were there caught with bombs

it was mossad

a complicit AGENCY that was involved in the cfr911attacks