How Did They Know?

Now includes BBC and CNN videos.

On September 11th, none of the New York City rescue people thought any of the World Trade Centers would collapse. For example:

The battalion chief of the New York Fire Department stated "there was never a thought that this whole thing is coming down" (page 15)

The Emergency Medical Services Division Chief, in charge of planning for the Chief of Department’s office said "No one feared that the building was in any danger as a result of two airplane attacks and subsequent fires . . . ."(page 7)

A lieutenant firefighter said "I never thought the whole thing would come down"

A firefighter stated "I never expected that a tower might collapse"

A lieutenant Investigator with the Bureau of Investigations and Trials said "no one ever expected it to collapse like that" (page 18)

The firefighters killed in the towers clearly never expected that they would collapse

And no engineer in the country, including the designers of the world trade centers, thought they would collapse. Indeed, "experts said no building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire" (summary is free if you register with the New York Times; full article is pay-per-view), and the twin towers were designed to survive airplane strikes.

Indeed, the 9/11 Commission Report itself states:

"They also received advice from senior FDNY chiefs that while the building might eventually suffer a partial collapse on upper floors, such structural failure was not imminent. NO ONE ANTICIPATED THE POSSIBILITY OF A TOTAL COLLAPSE" (Page 291)

"Prior to 9:59, no NYPD helicopter pilot predicted that either tower would collapse" (page 304)

"Though almost no one at 9:50 on September 11 was contemplating an imminent total collapse of the Twin Towers, many first responders and civilians were contemplating the possibility of imminent additional terrorist attacks . . . " (page 320); and

"Contrary to a widely held misperception, no NYPD helicopter predicted the fall of either tower before the South Tower collapsed" (page 321)

And yet, somehow, on 9/11, Mayor Rudy Giuliani knew in advance that the world trade center was going to collapse.

And newly-released tapes of firefighters and other emergency personnel show that New York's Office of Emergency Management told a handful of people that the twin towers were going to collapse BEFORE any building had actually collapsed. For example, a paramedic testified that, before ANY of the world trade center buildings had collapsed, the following occurred:

John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse . . . .

I mentioned to the EMS people there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you need to get away from here, the building might collapse, we need to leave this spot . . .

I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get
out . . . .

He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the fuck told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down” (page 6)

And there was also warning that building 7, which was not even hit by a plane, was going to collapse. Indeed, people “waited around” for the building to collapse.

For example, right before WTC7 came down, a NYPD police officer said clear away, the whole building is "about to blow up"

A firefighter stated "They moved us back south. We ended up back up on Vesey Street and West Street and just hanging out until tower 7 came down. After tower 7 came down, we went right to work over at tower 7 to put the fires out" (page 9)

Another firefighter testified "Once they got us back together and organized somewhat, they sent us back down to Vesey, where we stood and waited for Seven World Trade Center to come down" (page 14)

A firefighter said "I don't know what happened to No. 7. I knew the building was coming down" (page 8)

A lieutenant firefighter said Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess" (page 17)

A paramedic testified “Then it was about 5:00 . . . We didn't do any further because building number seven was coming down. That was another problem, to wait for building seven to come down, because that was unsecure. It was about 5:30 that building came down” (Pages 13-14)

Indeed, many news reporters, including reporters from the BBC (and see this BBC clip; BBC clips authenticated here, here, and here), CNN and other stations reported the collapse of Building 7 before it actually fell, thus strongly implying that someone informed the reporters of the collapse ahead of time. (Whereas the BBC clips announce that WTC 7 has already collapsed, the CNN clip says it "has either collapsed, or is collapsing". While the CNN video is somewhat less dramatic than the BBC videos, given that no modern, steel-framed building has ever collapsed due to fire alone, and given that WTC 7 still looked strong at the time, why did CNN say the building "is collapsing"?)

See also this collection of evidence regarding building 7.

What if a police detective was investigating the murder of a guy named Joe, who had previously been healthy, and discovered that a suspect had said on the day of the murder "Joe will be dead within 2 hours"? The detective would believe that the suspect killed Joe, or at least conspired with those who did.

Similarly, the foreknowledge of the collapse of buildings 1, 2 and 7 – when steel-framed buildings simply do not collapse due to fire – is strong circumstantial evidence that Guiliani and some key people within New York's Office of Emergency Management -- or their superiors in the chain of command -- are guilty for the demolition of those buildings.

We've all watched enough detective shows on TV to recognize this foreknowledge as evidence of guilt.

So you have the dis-info

So you have the dis-info spin ready to go--after all you've spent the last decade supporting policies that cut new's room budgets and make them more dependent than ever on canned sources--but when do you loose the wolves?

Timing's everything. Too late, the news might spin out of control, with every station asking the obvious: How the Fuck did THAT happen? Too early, then people start wondering, "And how the fuck did YOU know THAT was going to happen?"

Frankly the bastards did pretty damn good, all things considered. They could have waited a day before pushing the spin, but this was already too rich for someone's blood. Or maybe everything wasn't so smooth on their side as we'd like to think; maybe it WAS all going to go pear-shaped and the lesser risk was pushing the spin immediately to silence any whistle-blower.

And it's been working well enough--until now. This is what comes of trying to build a facsist police state with tax-cuts for the rich and outsourcing. :-P

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Dear George

i used to reply GW.......Then it hit me holy s**t! ....sorry.
Yes it's mind blowing that all the evidence we have here,and yet no new private investagtion.
How can the american people let them get away with this?

Pat Dawson talks to a firefighter on the scene

The reason I include this clip is that some have said that when everybody saw the twins fall suddenly other damaged buildings were suspect of collapse. Surely buildings like 5 & 6 which were much flimsier , closer and more damaged (and were eventually "pulled" )would also be in danger? Wouldn't all high-rise office fires threaten catastrophic pulverizing collapse?

b

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Great piece. Thanks. The

Great piece. Thanks.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

When was this clip recorded?

Unless we know when this clip was recorded, it is not of much use. For all we know, it could have been recorded after Building 7 went down (the night shot implies this), so there could still have been earlier fears of buildings collapsing, fears which had now dissipated. Watcha think?

Well it looks like the sun had set...

So it must be post WTC7's collapse.

That's my take on it.

I agree..

This was shot in the evening, presumably on 9/11 itself.

By the way, it was great hearing you, 911veritas, on the Louder Than Words show yesterday (assuming that was you) - you've done the movement a great service by locating, analyzing and distributing the BBC clip and I hope you know that!

Keep up the good work!

Yeah... It was me... Had to wish the guys well and thank all...

Those ad / music breaks are very hard work mind (seems like years).

So much to say, so little time, plus I have never done that before.

Thanks dude and best wishes

Yes after

I'm well aware of this and never claimed otherwise.. My point is wouldn't 5& 6 be in danger of collapse if they had more damage than 7 , since on 911 it became possible for minimally damaged buildings to collapse. Don't be so quick to dismiss a video contribution 'Nobodyinparticular'

Good post...almost

You've bundled firefighter statements about their opinions on whether the twin towers were going to collapse with st6atements about whether WTC7 was going to collapse.

Isn't the whole point of your post to make the case that these first responders didn't think that WTC7 was at risk of collapsing? If so, then why would you include quotes where the firefighter was clearly talking about the twin towers?

I find the pre-collapse premonitions - or lack thereof - of WTC7 to have limitied evidentiary value anyway. Here, in 2007, we all know that no steel framed building has ever collapsed due to fire. On September 11, at 4:00 PM EST, two steel framed building had just collapsed, presumably due to fire - at least as far as some people knew.

So it's not implausable to think that a few people would be a little shell-shocked about burning buildings collapsing. You can't expect people on 911 to have the perspective of post 911 researchers.

My point is this: I know that someone sent out the message that WTC7 was going to come down. That person most probably knew that the building was wired with explosives.

But trying to verify this with firefighters who may or may not have thought the building was going to collapse is a long shot at best. It is actually possible that someone, who did not know the building was wired, thought WTC7 was going to maybe collapse and spread it around. Unlikely? Maybe.

My point is it doesn't matter and this whole line of investigation, having limited evidentiary value anyway, is somewhat of a diversion. Somewhat.

That rumors started flying about WTC7's possible collapse, and that those rumors ended up being blown up on CNN and BBC to "already collapsed" is interesting but proves nothing.

I wish as much attention were being given to the evaporation of the steel in WTC7. This is the smoking gun and people are obsessing over what firemen, who are not structural engineers, may or may not have thought about WTC7's likelihood of collapse.

For those Saying, "There was NO Water for Firefighting WTC7"...


I have been having a look at some pictures located at :

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/02100/02121/

and

http://web.archive.org/web/20021205024232/http://www.subwaywebnews.com/wtc.htm


Here are a few (all post both towers coming down - not much smoke coming from WTC6 and 5 eh)...




Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us     Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us


Here's one showing the south-west corner (top 25 floors).

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us


I hope the above at least displays that hoses were not too far from WTC7, nothing that a bit of hose coupling wouldn't have sorted anyway.

Certainly the claimed fires on the lower floors.

Best wishes