Morons and Magic: A Reply to George Monbiot by David Ray Griffin

Morons and Magic: A Reply to George Monbiot

03/07/07 "ICH "
Wednesday, 07 March 2007
By David Ray Griffin

In “Bayoneting a Scarecrow The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a coward’s cult.” (Guardian, February 20), George Monbiot accuses members of the 9/11 truth movement of being “morons” and “idiots” who believe in “magic.” Having in his previous attack---“A 9/11 conspiracy virus is sweeping the world,” Guardian, February 6---called me this movement’s “high priest,” he now describes my 9/11 writing as a “concatenation of ill-attested nonsense.”

If my books are moronic nonsense, then people who have endorsed them must be morons. Would Monbiot really wish to apply this label to Michel Chossudovsky, Richard Falk, Ray McGovern, Michael Meacher, John McMurtry, Marcus Raskin, Rosemary Ruether, Howard Zinn, and the late Rev. William Sloane Coffin, who, after a stint in the CIA, became one of America’s leading civil rights, anti-war, and anti-nuclear activists?

If anyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job is by definition an idiot, then Monbiot would have to sling that label at Colonel Robert Bowman, former head of the U.S. “Star Wars” program; Andreas von Bülow, former State Secretary in the German Federal Ministry of Defense; former CIA analysts Bill Christison and Robert David Steele; former Scientific American columnist A. K. Dewdney; General Leonid Ivashov, former chief of staff of the Russian armed forces; Colonel Ronald D. Ray, former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense; all the members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, Veterans for 9/11 Truth, and Pilots for 9/11 Truth; and most of the individuals listed under “Professors Question 9/11” on the “Patriots Question 9/11” website.

One of the reasons these people reject the government’s conspiracy theory is that, if they were to accept the official account of the destruction of the World Trade Centre, they would need to affirm magical beliefs. A few examples:

The Twin Towers came straight down, which means that each building’s 287 steel columns all had to fail simultaneously; to believe this could happen without explosives is to believe in magic.

At the onset of each tower’s collapse, steel beams were ejected out as far as 600 feet; to believe that these horizontal ejections could be explained by gravitational energy, which is vertical, is to believe in magic.

Virtually all of the concrete in the towers was pulverized into extremely fine dust particles; to believe that fire plus gravity could have done this is to believe in magic.

WTC 7 and the towers came down at virtually free-fall speed, meaning that the lower floors, with all their steel and concrete, provided no resistance to the upper floors; to believe this could happen without explosives is to believe in magic.

Pools of molten metal were found under each building. Because steel does not begin to melt until it reaches about 1,540°C and yet the fires could not have gotten over 1000°C, to accept the fire theory is to believe in magic.

Monbiot, regarding the 9/11 truth movement’s conspiracy theory as a wrong-headed distraction, fails to see that the obviously false and truly distracting conspiracy theory is the official 9/11 myth, which has been used to justify imperial wars and increased militarism, thereby distracting attention from global apartheid and the ecological crisis. We focus on the 9/11 myth because, until it is exposed, getting our governments to focus wholeheartedly on the truly urgent issues of our time will be impossible.

David Ray Griffin has published over 30 books, including four about 9/11. His next book, Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory, will be out in April.

Link to this page:

Thank you,DRG!!!

Man, how I love to see this man's words in print! Anyone with half a brain and not working for the enemy can put the story together. I'm beginning to seriously worry about his safety. I keep plugging the smoking gun video:

-and the Tikkun article whereever I go. Last stop was the Burlington Free Press :

Go give them a hello!


Uh huh....

....oh yeah....

I confess to taking no small pleasure in witnessing DRG dispatch this poseur gatekeeper without so much as breaking a sweat....

Yeah, it's small beer in the grand scheme of things, but I take my amusements where I find them these days....

Excellent response DRG!

If anyone cares to join in... I'm trying wake up some people to 9/11 over at the website.


"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" -- Edward R. Murrow


.......Incredible, logical, and a true gentleman. What an honor it is having a man like you in our quest for the truth. Thank you Dr. Griffin.



Sorry it was Buried.

Yazza Mazza

Moonbat could only say that from a distance, since I know how hypnotizing you are in person. I tried, honestly I did. I resisted with every sinew in my body, yet somehow, Berkeley was NOT a safe place to be that night and there were MANY casualties wandering the hilly neighbourhood after you'd bewitched them, Oh Great One !!

But alas never fear, Moonbat isn't the first to succumb to the terrorists at large, but never mind he's served his purpose and now he'll walk into the valley of the shadow of death with Mr Death himself, or a reasonable enough of a facsimile to suit HIS needs; namely his permanent transportation to the land of the undead.
His soul is wasted, his body turned to ash, his future bleak and sleepless. Forgive him for he knows not what he does.

NAAAAaaaaaaaaawwwww ! Fry the bastard !!!

Remember; Nixon never thought he'd be caught either !

9/11=PNAC Plot
Over 800 links by story title, including your Emminence,

Marketing is the key

When enough people turn, congress will turn. Congress is like a loaded barge headed down river on the Mississippi...there's a lot of mass, and it will take persistent pressure to halt it and turn it around, so don't think we aren't making progress. Slowly but surely we must be.

The problem now is marketing. "George Monbiot calls 9/11 truthers 'morons' and 'idiots.'" I got that. I remember it. Short sweet, to the point, and the message sinks in. What was DRG's response? It was awesome...I know it was awesome, and I remember reading it...well, I read the first part of it anyway before I got bored.

We've done a pretty good job of reframing our position from "conspiracy theorists" to "9/11 truth seekers." That was a great move. Now we need to reframe the other side...."official story proponents" just doesn't have any memorable and emotional punch.

How about reframing the other side: George Monbiot is just another Official Conspiracy Nazi who believes in magic passports. Sorry, George, but I don't believe in spontaneous demolitions.

Make it personal: George Monbiot has such a low opinion of the extraordinary men in the United States Air Force, he doesn't think our finest can stop a couple of bungling hijackers who can't fly 4-seat Cesnas.

Official conspiracy nazis...
magic passports...
spontaneous demolition...
Official conspiracy nazis...
magic passports...
spontaneous demolition...

Repeat, repeat, repeat...hammer it home over and over...the barge WILL begin to turn...and after that it will pick up speed in the opposite direction...

I think you are on to something.

Yep, Official conspiracy nazis...
magic passports...
spontaneous demolition...

If only we couild run this as an add in all major newspapers, and as spot announcements on TV.

Substitute goons

for nazis.

imo - Calling anyone a nazi just makes you (us) look bad.

Not good PR. Name calling rarely, if ever, does any good.

I sometimes refer to Islamic Laws of Physics, but only when I'm dealing with someone who clearly knows better and is just being obstinate.

Keep in mind that the people that we want and need to reach now are going to be turned off by excessive rhetoric. It is a better tactic to take a calm, patient and well-reasoned approach with this audience.

Negative rhetoric makes people defensive. By definition, defensive people close themselves down and will not consider new ideas, especially ideas that directly contradict their core beliefs. Engage your audience on common ground first (the horrific nature of the 9/11 crime, the plight of the first responders), then shift the dialogue to building seven or the lack of air cover for 100 minutes. Treat every interaction as a long term conversation, don't expect to convince anyone in two, five or even ten minutes. Draw them out, let them ask the questions. Leave them with questions lingering in their minds as they walk away, something to puzzle over until they run into you or another truther the next time.

Always keep in mind that we have the truth and physics on our side, we can take the high road and don't have to fight in the gutter to win.

Be positive. Be patient.

I hope that you and yours are well.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.


I agree the main need is for respectful presentation of the facts, but I also think the truth movement is missing an audience...

For instance, there's a lot of Coulter/Limbaugh fans out there that never even look at the facts because it would take a loudmouth, arrogant butthead to reach them. This movement needs a loudmouth butthead--at a distance, on the side--funneling some of these people into the movement, enticing them to look at the facts. It's sad, but there is a big segment that judges who's telling the truth by how arrogant and cocky they evidenced by the support our current administration still gets from a lot of people. These people dump a lot of money into congress' pockets. If the truth movement could get some of the rural red state folks to turn, and start talking around the race track, and then have the respectful polite megaphone to feed the facts to their curiosity, I think it'd be something the members of congress couldn't easily ignore any longer...

Coulter/Limbaugh fans will NOT be attracted

to 9/11 truth by calling their heroes/heroines NAZI's.

(If you can prove me wrong on video I'll buy you dinner for a week)

We do need to reach out to the NASCAR crowd, but I don't think a "loudmouth butthead" at any distance will do the trick.

(btw - 9/11 truth already has a very loud, aggressive and confidant proponent with a large following)

No, I think the best way to make headway with the NASCAR crowd is to get ex-FBI and retired military to speak about the obvious problems of the government myth beginning with the fact that the FBI admits that they don't know who the 9/11 hijackers were and have "no hard evidence" linking bin Laden to 9/11.

Also, if we can take advantage of Dr. Griffin's tactic of pointing out that Jesus was an anti-empirialist and gain traction with the Christian and evangelical crowds, we could begin to shift another significant segment of the population.

I was in Memphis in January and was very pleasantly surprised at how many folks from the middle of the country are hip to 9/11 and ready to take it to the next level.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Official Conspiracy Nuts

And so, to keep the train of thought going, JoeC suggested honing our talking points to three very simple phrases. Look above to find the phrases he suggests.

If we take LeftWright's suggestion, we will alter these to...

Official conspiracy goons...
magic passports...
spontaneous demolition...

Although, frankly, I would like to turn the tables by using a name that others use for us, as follows:

Official conspiracy nuts...
magic passports...
spontaneous demolition...

Joe, are you still looking at this thread? What's your response?


LeftWright, I always find your advice good. I learn from it. So I am glad to be corrected here.

In particular, the word 'Nazi' doesn't help us. I agree with that point, now that I think about it. I bet that others here will also see it, on second thoughts.

You say, "It is a better tactic to take a calm, patient and well-reasoned approach with this audience." I am certain that we can choose to either follow this approach, or fail to have the impact we want -- the impact that the country needs. The world too. Everyone. This is quite serious.

People who advocate learning the truth about 911 (that's us) start out looking strange to most other people. This is not maintstream. They expect weirdness from us already. Not smart to alienate them.

You say, "Negative rhetoric makes people defensive." And, on the postiive side, "Engage your audience on common ground first."

I hope others here will re-read your two posts above, once or twice.


One of the best posts I've seen on this site yet. You're extremely correct. (I really gotta write up my thoughts on this!!)

Want to figure out 9/11? Ponder the 9/11 "Mineta Stone"

Why Monbiot gave up his skepticism?

It is ok to express things in straight and emotional way for ourselves. But not outwards. It does not help at all.

Monbit was skeptic to official accounts in October 16th 2001. He was sincere then. Why he not skeptic anymore or skeptic in more radical way (MIHOP), is a question.
Gagging the sceptics
The US, founded to protect basic freedoms, is now insisting that its critics are its enemies
October 16, 2001
....There are plenty of reasons to be sceptical. The magical appearance of the terrorists' luggage, passports and flight manual looks rather too good to be true. The dossier of "evidence" purporting to establish Bin Laden's guilt consists largely of supposition and conjecture. The ration packs being dropped on Afghanistan have no conceivable purpose other than to create the false impression that starving people are being fed. Even the anthrax scare looks suspiciously convenient. Just as the hawks in Washington were losing the public argument about extending the war to other countries, journalists start receiving envelopes full of bacteria, which might as well have been labelled "a gift from Iraq". This could indeed be the work of terrorists, who may have their own reasons for widening the conflict, but there are plenty of other ruthless operators who would benefit from a shift in public opinion.

Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism. Unless we are prepared to question, to expose, to challenge and to dissent, we conspire in the demise of the system for which our governments are supposed to be fighting. The true defenders of America are those who are now being told that they are anti-American.

Namecalling does not help to find open and rational thinking again. Maybe Monbiot like so many other otherwise clever people just want to preserve their dignity, imagined or not, as resisters of "mere sensationalist thinking".

Re: Marketing is Key

Morgan and Henshall in 9/11 Revealed offer the best frame fro this debate: between Believers (in the official theory) and Skeptics (9/11 truthers). I prefer to call the former, particularly the Monbiot-Cockburn-Chomsky types, True Believers, because it accurately gets to the DENIAL that is the heart of their psychological affliction. Google True Believer to explore this syndrome.

I sent DRG's reply...

to Monbiot... I'm interested to see if he replies.

Keep up the good work on this site.

Didn't know DRG wears steel toed boots

That was effective.

Interesting link on Antiwar .com sources Counterpunch's Ketchem

"Did israel know in advance of the 9/11 attacks?"

that article should be up on

that article should be up on the frontpage here, from CounterPunch

News editor at The Watchman Report,, delivering 9/11 truth to the Christian community

David Schippers should not be forgotten either!

David Schippers and the FBI Agents: The first example involves attorney David Schippers, who had been the chief prosecutor for the impeachment of President Clinton. Two days after 9/11, Schippers declared that he had received warnings from FBI agents about the attacks six weeks earlier--warnings that included both the dates and the targets. These agents had come to him, Schippers said, because FBI headquarters had blocked their investigations and threatened them with prosecution if they went public with their information. They asked Schippers to use his influence to get the government to take action to prevent the attacks. Schippers was highly respected in Republican circles, especially because of his role in the impeachment of Clinton. And yet, he reported, Attorney General Ashcroft repeatedly failed to return his calls.[21]

Schippers’ allegations about the FBI agents were corroborated in a story by William Norman Grigg called “Did We Know What Was Coming?”, which was published in The New American, a very conservative magazine. According to Grigg, the three FBI agents he interviewed told him “that the information provided to Schippers was widely known within the Bureau before September 11th.”[22]

If Schippers, Grigg, and these agents are telling the truth, it would seem that when FBI Director Mueller claimed that the FBI had found no one in this country with advance knowledge of the plot, he was not telling the truth.

Blog it

Tomi0, this would make a good blog entry here. Would you be willing to submit it? More people will see it that way.

yes, marketing is key!

we really do have to use the system's methods. reframe, repeat repeat repeat. it's really just one big game, and the more we learn how it is played, the better we become at playing it in our loose, decentralized way. nothing is more exciting than watching the cumulative actions of thousands of dedicated individuals bringing about unprecedented change. Now just one thing--as we all become expert at the system's own shady tactics of mind control, let's be sure not to be absorbed by the dark side...


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force


Thanks Dr Griffin

.......As always , still a gentleman! Quite frankley my wording to this fool would have been alot more on the brash side.
Still there side runs from public debate.I wonder why? Thanks for all your effort & God bless you!

Why run the risk of public debate...

....when they can always smear us as "holocaust deniers" and "anti-semites"....(sarcasm)

This tactic's obvious transparency is to be mocked at every opportunity.

"Hey, why won't you man-up and debate us on the facts?"

We have legions of Truthers chomping at the bit for that day.....(and they know it)


Anti-semitism is the cointelpro tactic du Jour. Anti-semitism is the "no-planes" theory of 2007.

So what's the antidote to this poison?

Condemn it. Shine as much light on it as possible - and watch who cries the loudest.

Remember how quick....

Meigs and that other scumbag went to the holocaust denier tactic once WTC7 was brought up on Democracy Now with the Loose Change guys....?

Here's that part of the show:

It's really laughable....


I have observed you cry the loudest, Jess.

Who is Jess?

Who is Jess?

your mom

metaphorically speaking...

(Sorry I just couldn't help it)

Why not in The Guardian?

Professor Griffin's reply is indeed excellent, yet it should of course (have) be(en) published in The Guardian itself instead of some website which most Guardian readers won't even know.
Has Griffin sent his reply to The Guardian as well?? And if yes, why hasn't it been published??
Having his reply in The Guardian would be 1000000 times more effective than this, I think.

Thanks for posting this,

Thanks for posting this, Reprehensor -- I was going to start a blog entry yesterday but didn't have time.... so, it was great to see this on the front page.

I think this is a great response to Monbiot -- it's short and to the point. Monbiot has a lot of splainin to do.

Rigorous Intuition

There's a thread on this over at Jeff Wells' Rigorous Intuition discussion board, which I frequent.

Unfortunately, I was rather disheartened to read this posting by Jeff, who (if you weren't aware) wrote the amazing "Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11" a few years ago.

Jeff: "I think Griffin's piece is slipshod. For instance:

"At the onset of each tower’s collapse, steel beams were ejected out as far as 600 feet; to believe that these horizontal ejections could be explained by gravitational energy, which is vertical, is to believe in magic."

If it was controlled demolition, then why are those steel beams being thrown 600 feet? That doesn't sound very controlled to me. And of course there were other forces than gravity at work: an explosive force of compression, for instance, that had now where to expend itself but on the horizontal.

No need to invoke magic here, just critical thinking."

Like I said, his comments are really disheartening to me. Oh well....


Ah yes, the "explosive force of compression". LOL And what, pray tell, would be the origin of such a force (it not gravity)? Critical thinking at its finest!

Comments like this really depress me and make me believe that ultimately nothing will ever come of the 911 truth movement.

The scientific evidence is by far the most compelling evidence of CD. The officially offered explanation for the collapses of WTC 1, WTC2 and WTC7 have been sufficiently falsified to the mind of anyone who understands 8th grade level physics. Any scientifically literate person knows that unless the laws of physics were suspended on September 11, 2001, the official explanation of the collapses (like most of the events of that day) CANNOT be true.

The following are facts that have NEVER (to my knowledge) been specifically addressed, let alone refuted, by anyone advocating the official theory:

(1) Large quantities of molten iron/steel remained pooled at the bottom of the rubble of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7 for several weeks after the collapse. Yet it is an accepted fact that none of the fires burned anywhere near the temperature required to melt iron/steel. How then was this molten iron/steel produced?

(2) Hundreds of thousands of tons of structural concrete; and a significant quantity of the contents of a million square feet of office space (including computers, telephones, filing cabinets, chairs, desks, etc., as well as the bodies of almost 3000 human beings) were pulverized into MICRON sized dust particles. As the collapse footage shows, this pulverization begins high up in the towers at the point of initiation of collapse. The kinetic energy of the buildings collapsing under the force of gravity simply cannot account for this phenomenon. What can?

(3) The official theory of 'pancake' or 'pile driver'-type collapse of the towers cannot be reconciled with the actual collapse of the towers at close to free-fall speed without violating (at least) the law of conservation of momentum.

Again, the official explanation CANNOT be true.

So what's the problem? Almost SIX YEARS later, why aren't there some people behind bars where they belong?

The problem is that the overwhelming majority of the American population does not understand 8th grade level physics. Accordingly, the best arguments for CD are completely lost on the overwhelming majority of the people you are trying to convince. Think your Congressman understands this stuff? LOL. How about Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity? LOL. Your mom? Your brother or sister? Again, the answer is likely ......NOPE.

How the hell do you change THAT?

I don't think you can, and that's why I think this movement has been successfully and PERMANENTLY marginalized.

"How the hell do you change THAT?"

Give them "911 Mysteries".

It's almost impossible to watch that and deny the reality of CD.

Burn it and have copies in your car to pass out wherever you go....the gas station, the convenience store, etc....(I highly recommend having an explanatory insert in the sleeve)

Gave one to a lady cop yesterday.

I do. I do.

I have sent copies of Loose Change, copies of SB Jones' article etc. etc. to everyone in my family and lots and lots and lots of friends. The most encouraging response I've ever received was: "So you think the government actually did this? Interesting questions but I don't buy it." That came from an M.D. that I know understands physics (because I took the classes with him).

I will never stop, but I am definitely starting to despair that it will ever amount to anything. We are swimming against enormous oceans of apathy and ignorance (willfull or otherwise).

Those who orchestrated this knew for an absolute fact that they would (not could -- WOULD) get away with it, otherwise it would never have been attempted. These folks don't "try".....they do. End of story.

Then you give that person.... show historical precedence for governments' murdering their citizens to justify military aggression. 9/11 allowed for the wealth-transfer in the Trillions...most people can understand greed and crime....

State-Sponsored False-Flag Terror must become a household term and common knowledge.

When everyone is aware of how corrupt and criminal the government is, they won't participate in the system...they won't pay taxes, they won't patronize multinational corporations, they won't use fiat currency to conduct transactions, they won't let their kids serve in the military...believe me, we have weapons at our disposal.....

But knowledge comes first.

What you say

makes perfect sense if most people were like you and wanted to know the truth.

Most people aren't.

"The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim."

---- Gustave Le Bon, "The Crowd" (1896)

The sad fact is that most people don't really care all that much about 911. Things are (mostly) good. They have a job, a decent car, cable TV and the NFL. Why shake things up? Besides.......who has time for that kind of crap anyway? People have lives and most them have no room whatsoever for 911 activism.

The High Perps....

....are relying on that....

We'll see.

Thanks for playing.

No need to shake things up.

The dollar bubble is set to burst in the not too distant future, there are 3 strike groups in the Gulf, camps are in the works...

People who believe they can keep their head in the sand and all will be jolly good are mistaken, and if they don't realize that now, the sands of time will show 'em, soon enough. The more that can make sense of what will happen, the better - so keep on pushing.

The revolution is inevitable.

We can not overt it, nor hold it off indefinitely (see history and the unsustainable fantasies of ALL fiat currencies).

However... if We choose, We can effect its character. (paraphrase of JFK)

That is why I am here with you rag-tag band of truth and justice seeking folks. I love you all.

Me too!

I've just been to shy to say it. Or something...

People DO want to know the truth

And here is how you show them:

1) Open the discussion of 9/11 however you like.

2) Listen to their objection(s). Most people have just one, sometimes two. They will tell you what it is. Usually you don't even have to ask. Just LISTEN carefully.

3) Repeat their objection IN THEIR OWN WORDS. Example: If they say, "I can't believe the government would do that." Repeat that phrase exactly as they said it. Then either ask or look for confirmation in their expression. Be friendly, non-argumentative, polite, etc.

4) Answer the objection once they have confirmed that you stated it correctly. Use a short answer, then provide more details if requested.

5) Repeat this process if they have a second objection.

So far, this has worked almost every time for me. People DO want to know the truth, but many have emotional problems accepting it, factual misunderstandings, a poor grasp of physical principles.

Find the objection, repeat it in their own words (very important), answer it. Be sure to use THEIR OWN WORDS.

When People Say....

...They can't believe their Government gets down like that, just school them on WTC 1993. That the strongest argument to make. Things like USS Liberty and Operation Northwoods seem to far out of the woods to the average person. But WTC 1993 brings it right home right to their faces and says HELLO!

Just spreading doubt is already something

The myth loses the force it is used for.

When just only questioned once people are more open when questioned next time by someone else.

different people

are affected by peer pressure in different ways. some people can very easily see the evidence, understand it, and adjust their beliefs accordingly. other people need to see first that many others are doing the same thing. until we have more visibility, we have to be content and work with the people who don't need the herd to validate what they can tell is true, and those who have mulled it over long enough to become used to the idea of being in a minority, albeit one that is growing.

Be patient--if you look at where we are now versus two years ago, the difference is astounding. Given that that pace compares quite favorably with the FIRST four years, it means our rate of awareness and acceptance is increasing. If there were no pressure working against us, it would obviously happen overnight, but since we are encountering various methods of delay and distract it will take a little longer.

But it will happen. Just keep doing everything you can think of to wake even one person up at a time. Everyday, in every way you can think of. And just think that your actions are being multiplied thousands of times by others. The satisfaction of seeing our growth is tremendous. Knowing that with every DVD you give out or poster you put up, you are making some fans of the OCT sweat just a little more is a great feeling. Just picture them waking up from their false sense of security and realizing there is no real way out for them. many of them will be in denial til the very end. Some will literally go insane when they see the jig is up. Others will commit suicide. It is GOING TO HAPPEN--have no doubt about that.

Instead of worrying, just act with the knowledge that you will be vindicated in front of everyone you know. YOU will be the person in the family or group of friends credited with turning them on to the truth about 9/11. YOU will be regarded for the rest of your life as more prescient and courageous than your peers. YOU will be able to say--I TOLD you so!!

It's gonna be SO sweet!!!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero - Harvard Task Force



Even if you doubt the effectiveness of your actions (which I definitely do at times), you have to look at the alternative -- doing nothing in the face of this evil.

That is just flatly unacceptable. You can't do that and call yourself fully human.

I am going to keep telling the truth no matter what.

I'd really like to see

I'd really like to see articles demolishing the official theory in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Why aren't there any, if the issues are so clear?

I know about gate-keeping and peer pressure, but still...


Journal of 9/11 Studies? Or does it have to be print?

Some people will not believe it...

.. unless it is not printed in Nature or something like that.

For instance, Chomsky told me he is still waiting for a demolition article to be published in some peer-reviewed construction/engineering journal. It would be nice to satisfy such people's appetite for authority. :-)

Well then...

one has to ask: who owns Nature and Science? On the corporate, not the universal level that is, of course...

Dr. Jones

et al have been trying to get a mainstream science journal to print at least one of their papers.

No luck so far.

My guess is that we'll see something in a EU based journal first (not the UK).

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.


is owned by Holtzbrinck, a rather large company that also owns "Die Zeit", a respected german newspaper completely oblivious to the truth just like any other.

We will never see anti-establishment articles right out of the establishment - EU, UK, US, doesn't matter, they're all in the same boat.

Point out to Jeff...

That 'explosive force of compression' implies RESISTANCE.

The fact that this person thinks bursts of air ejected massive steel beams up to 600 ft makes his 'critical thinking' remark all the more laughable.

here's the link

to the Rigorous Intuition discussion I was referring to:

To st8nme:

Yeah, I know where you're coming from, some days here at the blogger I get my hopes up, like last week with the BBC Premontion episode. Then I look around the computer lab where I'm sitting and realize that 911 Truth is the last thing from anyone else in this room's mind. Especially the girly-girls.

I've become much more active online lately, went to the Burlington Free Press to drop off links to the Smoking Gun video on their comment page. If just 10 people go to it, maybe 1 will realize The Truth. I've been e-mailing it to people around the world that I haven't seen for years with the hope that I can reach just one of them.

This DRG article is going out to people on my contact list today because I'm pissed off by some of the comments at the BFP yesterday after the Reinvestigate 911 was voted down. Democracy at work!

Another lesson of 911? "Democracy" failed. If we can't get out the Truth at some point, global fascism will be waiting, smirking-and it seems that most of the population of my town couldn't care less. As long as they get laid tomorrow night, or at least on Saturday, all is well.

So I must work harder, "put in the time". Now excuse me, a bunch of people around the world are about to be introduced to mister David Ray Griffin...whether they like it or not. (Jerk their heads out of the sand? No, I'm no optimist).

Maybe Monbiot isn't so stupid

George Monbiot and Gwynne Dyer are both leading journalists who are highly intelligent, perceptive men with long track records of criticism of the Bush administration. Noam Chomsky, John Pilger and Michael Moore have also been conspicuously silent on the 911 issue.

How, then, do we explain Monbiot's near-hysterical abuse of those who have the temerity to suspect that the Cheyney administration is not telling the truth about 911?

Monbiot et al are all heavyweights with the potential to pose a serious threat to the incipient fascists running America today. Whereas the 911 critics were largely unknown before the WTC and Pentagon attacks and could be dismissed as nuts, serious, well-regarded journalists would be a different matter. Were Moore, Chomsky et al to come out of the closet and speak out for an independent inquiry, those responsible for 911 would be facing treason charges, for which we can assume the penalty would be death. With the entire power structure of the United States under threat, it is not too difficult to see how the Cheyney administration would react.

Sherlock Holmes used to say that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. The only rational explanation for the seemingly irrational behaviour of Monbiot et al is that they have been warned of what will happen when the camps begin to be filled.

Come to think of it, maybe Monbiot is trying to tell us something. His outburst was so uncharacteristic that he wants us tot know that it's not the real Monbiot speaking.

So he's either a liar or a coward,

or both?

I think it's pretty funny to think that if Moore, Chomsky, and Monbiot et al. have the power to force an independent inquiry. They don't.

It's easy to see why they won't tell the truth. These people are as establishment as it gets. Moore and Monbiot are millionares for God sakes. So they are on the far left wing of the establishement? They nevertheless have all a vested interest in maintaining the idea of the state itself as legitimate.

Would they like to see the creeps currently in power out of power? Sure, they would, but they also want to make sure that their creeps are capable of taking over and weilding power on behalf of their pet causes.

If the state itself is delegitimized by the revelations of the truth of 911 (and it would be), they lose out just as much as the right wingers. They all have a vested interest in maintaining the state and it's control over the unwashed masses.

Monbiot felt hurted

Monbit was skeptic to official accounts in October 16th 2001. He was sincere then. How could it be otherwise.
Gagging the sceptics
The US, founded to protect basic freedoms, is now insisting that its critics are its enemies
George Monbiot
October 16, 2001

There are plenty of reasons to be sceptical. The magical appearance of the terrorists' luggage, passports and flight manual looks rather too good to be true. The dossier of "evidence" purporting to establish Bin Laden's guilt consists largely of supposition and conjecture.

It is hard to think he has become malevolent, insicere now.

He has not come back to this perspective until now. New skepticism is too big thing for him. It is not as his fresh sensible skepticism used to be. He feels this new sceticism is just sensationalism, typical behaviour of "less civilized Americans". He thinks this spoils image of the real well-founded intellectual scepticism and everything respectable he is used to identify himself with. Planted explosives, no airliner hitting Pentagon sound him too sensationalist, something appealing only for amusement of "ignorant masses".

Maybe Monbiot has forgotten he doubted. Maybe "bin Laden confession tape" made him believe there wasn't reason to doubt and made him to concentrate in "real questions". He feels someway the new doubting of the truth movement discredits his orginal "right way of scepticism".

st8nme:My point also:

Good point, that is what lies at the root of 911. I'm looking more from the sociological perspective: Power. To Foucault, "knowledge" is "power". To me,the words of DRG in this article are power. Hope I reached alot of people with my e-mails of it today.

Legitimacy of all current regimes is questionable, since none have come to our aid-except for Chavez, as far as I know.They wouldn't want to look like "morons" now would they?

This Whole Thread is a Perfect Example...

...of what is imperfect about the 911 Consciousness Movement. Nearly everyone wants to write a book instead of making their point and heading for the exits. How can you raise consciousness when your very method is making people un-conscious and tired. The early posts had great ideas. Propaganda. Goebbelize it. Dumbya said to "catapult the propaganda" and keep repeating it. Catchphrases. DRG uses a great one: Official Fairy Tale [of 911]. Continue along that line. Here's a quick collecting of Catch phrases:

Official Fairy Tale [a David R Griffin Classic]
911 Consciousness [as opposed to 911 Truth some call Twoof]
Spontaneous Implosion [something interesting]
NORAD was a NO-Show [rhymes]
Vigilant Warrior hit NY and DC [enigmatic and mysterious]
Where was Cheney on 911? [Good darn question period]
Two Buildings were hit, Three Fell, What gives? [great slogan]
Why was the WTC Molten for Months? [enigmatic]
WTC 1993 Was an Inside Job [enigmantic and damning]
Bush Knew, just ask his Pet Goat [humorous and musical]
Will The real Osama Please Stand Up!? [humorous]


The stuff that ryhmes will stick in people's heads that music you sometimes can't get out of your head.

The 911 Consciousness Movement needs to define it's objectives. Is it just spreading Truth to change voting trends? Are you fighting imperialism? Are you trying to prevent WW3? Are you fighting a future Police State or One World Government? A North American Union? The Corporate annexing of the Earth's resources?

People waving signs need full size pictures of Molten Metal pouring out of the building and in the rubble, with incredulous captions asking HOW?!

Just as NY and DC were the epicenters [or Ground Zero] of The Great neo-CONJOB, those two cities might also be the best place for the expansion of 911 Consciousness to take root.

Caution: Do Not Protest about 911 AT Ground Zero. Keep away from there and let the victims have peace.

Hitting DC with 911 Truth activities is a MUST because you guys need to "win the hearts and minds" of THE POLITICIANS some of whom are blind deaf and dumb, sleepwalking and oblivious to the many things the internet has brought us face to face with.

Sport Tee shirts with 911 websites on the front and back pointing the way to sites such as and the like.

One last thing. It might be better to argue the politics of 911, ie; how the rules of Norad were altered right before, Norad and FAA wierd behaviour, the destruction of the Air Traffic Controller tapes, Bush's strange behaviour and statements, Cheney's strange behaviour and statements, Mineta's statements, the statements of 911 Commission Commissioners that the Commission was an Ommission, etc. The Science behind 911 is the Icing on the cake and should come AFTERWARDS when you aim to convince. The average person isn't persuaded by the nuances of scientific anomolies by themselves. They are unscientific in the sense that a verbal description of a physical phenomenon doesnt create concrete mental perceptions in them.