Well, to play the pessimist

Reading the message board here I often feel optimistic about the Truth Movement. Back near this site's inception the flow of news was so much slower than it is now. I see optimism reflected in the comments of others on this site. I just want to make sure it's healthy I guess.

I originally intended this text as a response to a post in another blog. But it got too long so I decided to make a blog about it instead. I'll post the comment to bring context to the conversation (btw the blog was the Rosie O'Donnell one, didn't think many people would be reading it.)

nomoremrniceguy: It is the quiet before the storm so to speak. When following Arthur Schopenhauer's three steps (ridicule, violent opposition, self-evident) it seems anything less would mean we are headed in the wrong direction. Think of all the increased attention as of lately and we are only in the third month of 2007!

Me: It's not impossible to go backwards in Schopenhauer's three steps is it? I mean if a people were apathetic enough to reality in general...? It seems that Truthiness is all people need to live their lives. It seems as if people have grown accustomed to the truth/facts being politicized. Living by what makes sense to them without regard to what the actual truth is and what those implications would be. Blatant disregard for reality, that's what we are faced with.

The people are pacified. Unfortunately I am pretty pacified too.. We should all be marching on Washington right now, demanding that our questions be answered... but we are not.

Maybe the 9/11 outrage will be placated by a Democrat in the White House? I can already imagine the arguments on Daily Kos:

"We can't re-investigate 9/11, that would look vindictive. It's better to just enact new social policy and fix what's wrong that Bush screwed up so bad. If we look bloodthirsty then maybe we'll lose votes!!! Don't lose focus on 2010."

It may take another false-flag attack to attain critical mass. But what if it's too late and another attack catapults us into a police state.


Ok, well I do have dark thoughts sometimes.

I don't think the breaking point has to be a terrorist attack (nor am I advocating terrorism). What else could it be?

Obama coming out to support 9/11 truth or maybe some reporters start asking Tony Snow the big questions. Could you imagine every single talk show host (or maybe just even the late night ones) dedicating their show to 9/11 truth all on one day. Our country just needs more dialogue and the truth will spread naturally. Maybe someone should hack comcast and broadcast loose change and/or a dozen other documentaries. That'd get people talking.

The buzz we have right now is good. But it's not reaching a boiling point.

My question to you:

How is everyone here feeling about the progress of the movement?

I've grown frustrated sometimes, but it is indeed a lofty goal and a long path to get there, so I try to see the big picture. Am I denying the reality of the situation when I do that? I do not know. Is my hope in the movement misplaced? I don't think so.

-Drew "Let's Talk About Feelings" Miazga

I am very optimistic.

What you say is true, people have been pacified and blatant disregard for reality is widespread. It has been like that for a long, long time, but 9/11 Truth is changing that before our very eyes. Just listening to the Vox Populi in regards to BBC Gate, in comments on Youtube and Richard Porter's blog, it is clear that this movement has already gone a long way.

I believe that most people have cultivated blatant disregard for reality and passivity not because they approve of how the world is run, but because they truly felt they couldn't change things - there was no singular lynchpin to focus on, only uncoordinated inneffectual quagmire, as advocated by people like Chomsky. Tasting the forbidden fruit of wisdom that 9/11 provides, things change, however:

Not only does it become clear where to apply pressure to rectify our desperate situation, but the act of insurmountable betrayal invigorates people with an adamant will to fight. That is why truthers, unlike career politicians or sheeple, don't just have opinions, but they make them known, with as much devotion as they can muster.

Add to that the fact that the constituency of 9/11 truth can only grow while its complement can only shrink, and you have all the reasons in the world to be optimistic.


Especially the last week, the discovering of the BBC clairvoyant reporting on WTC7, was a huge progress here in europe. Many people questioned the BBC, many fell to our side of the fence. Basically all forums in several media outlets were overwhelmed by truthers commenting, and the OCT's remain mostly silent.

Truth will prevail, perps and "debunkers" to jail!


I know this will be hard to hear - but i sometimes think some good hard self-criticism is a good thing.

It is my opinion that this movement passed a threshold where simply ignoring us was no longer an option for the government and media. So - I think we have passed over into the "attack" mode where we now see very sophisticated and well-funded covert operations taking place against us. It is my opinion that this movement is under attack.

And while we may perceive that - at long last - we are finally getting the attention we wanted for this subject, keep in mind that most people are watching from 'the outside' getting only kernels of information from unreliable and sometimes SUBVERTED sources.

For example: Rosie O'Donnel is now directing people to Dr. Jim 'space beams' Fetzer's website.

Is this good or bad news?

For example: A conference is held on 911 in Arizona - but a huge scandal erupts tarring the entire event as "anti-semitic" which the media then picks up on and solely focuses on.

For Example: disinformation about space beams and no-planes and anti-semitism is getting AIR TIME - while sober credible calls for reopening the investigation are being virtually ignored by the media.

For example: the movement ITSELF is marred by infighting and cross accusations, with no central leadership or unifying themes. Various competing theories and interests have created a chaotic environment where fights are breaking out regularly, projecting negative vibes to the public. I myself am guilty of this.

For Example: Mainstream media is now marginalizing us NOT by ignoring us - but by acknowledging our existence - but as a full-fledged cultural phenomenon akin to UFO groups. A 'common consensus' is emmerging from the LEFT as well as the RIGHT on such maintream media as South Park, and many left-gatekeeper pundits that we are not to be taken seriously.

For example: We are now LARGLY considered "conspiracy theorists" - as opposed to ACTIVIST DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY. Instead of focusing on the LIES this government has foisted on us - they instead focus on our THEORIES.

Simply by CALLING us conspiracy theorists they marginalize us. It is for this reason that our enemies LOVE debates about planes at the pentagon.

Please note that there was a complete media blackout on the press conference the victim's families held in Washington DC calling for an investigation.

And lastly - i am pessimistic because i believe that this movement has indeed moved into the "attack" stage, and it appears that the "dirty tricks" are ramping up. Organized Disruption. Disinformation. Junk Science. These are all very real weapons.

Anyone who doubts this should listen to Dr William Pepper's podcast from the Chicago conference.

Now - know there are many things positive we can focus on. in no way am i implying that its ALL bad.

But = without strategies for dealing with these problems I personally feel somewhat pessimistic about how we can reach the general public and make a compelling and air-tight case for reopening 911 to investigation.

We deal with all of this

on a everyday basis, some of us for over 5 years. And despite all this we still gaining traction.

In some way it is good to have no leaders, as someone lately mentioned. And they can only play the same old tricks on us, we knew all about.

The latest direction, a fast kick-out of everybody who play dirty tricks on our common goals, the quick recognizing of all foul play and to immediately adress that, is the way and strategy to move forward. Concentrate on the holes in the OCT. Shot them!

Trust! Believe in our aims! Together we can and will reach them!

i love the "quick kick-out" idea

but who gets to decide who gets kicked out?

and how would we enforce it?

The majority, hopefully from an informed perspective

Remember the case of Jim Fetzer? "Leader" one day, outcast the next. Doesn't take anyone to "enforce" a self perpetuated loss of credibility.

yes and no

its funny you use Jim Fetzer as an example. He recently was one of the presenters at the Arizona conference. He recently spoke in Columbus Ohio as part of that Truth movement's efforts. He was just recently presented by the BBC as an authority on 9/11. Rosie O'Donnell advocates his website.

I would disagree that these 'leaders' simply fade away on their own. They don't. in fact - some of the most virulent disinfo artists - Nico Haupt and the Rick Siegel network are in fact GAINING momentum. Germany just picked up a series of stories by Haupt on his Urantia BULLSH*T he has been hawking.

another concern i have is the inverse - and the dangers of 'mob rule' where legitimate and sincere hard working activists have their reputations ruined simply because they profess opinions that 'the mob' do not like. labeling people 'limited hangout' and 'LIHOP" is JUST as damaging to this movement as anything our enemies could levy against us.

Don't mistake media momentum

for real momentum.

Your concern that reputation won't shield anyone from "mob rule", as you call it, is noted. Others would probably call the same democracy...

our forefathers recognized

that democracy is not a cure-all for all of society's ills. that is why we have a Bill of Rights - to PROTECT the minorities from the scourge of the majority.

democracy alone does not work. in nazi germany the vast majority of Germans supported Hitler - and they ended up with selective discrimination - and the holocaust.

Truth is not determined by popularity. The majority of world citizens believed the world was flat at one time. It took the brave minority to stand up and expose the truth.

Of course Galeleio had his eyes burned from his head. Big oops there....

Haven't you heard?

We have entered a new era, an era brought about by a profound paradigm shift - the total democratization of information. And that leaves the "scourge" of the uninformed as the only element to worry about.

It's not even true that the "vast majority of Germans supported Hitler", most were simply intimidated into submission, the rest blinded by centralized propaganda. Where the parallels lie is clear...

Once honest information is readily available and people dare to use their heads, the majority isn't such an inadequate indicator for the score in the contest of truth anymore, or is it? No need to bring up anachronistic examples of an era long past to dispute that.


"For example: Rosie O'Donnel is now directing people to Dr. Jim 'space beams' Fetzer's website."

Have you contacted Rosie and told her about the resource here at www.911blogger.com. If she is new to the movement, she might first be attracted to the Scholars' site like I was. We've been around longer. Let's help educate her and at least give her a chance to direct her audience to the more reliable and effective 9/11 Truth sites like 911Blogger.

Many good points

Thanks for replying to my post, John. Loved EGLS. That part about the Visa Express program was really damning (amongst other things).

You make a lot of good points that are distressing... but once we have a unifying message and a strong leader hopefully these problems go away.

This forum (911blogger) is great, but I wish there was a more formalized or central organization system for spreading 9/11 awareness.

I think it is almost inevitable these things will get worked out as more and more people are actively questioning the OCT.

There are reasons to be both glad/sad at the movement's progress. However, I think that the benefits of catching the "real killers" outweighs hopelessness at this point in time. There is certainly an Orwellian foreshadowing, but there is also a potentially equally likely peaceful future.

Maybe I'm blinded by the light, but I've arrived at Mild Optimism.

You're right though, the key is the quick air tight case that catches on like wildfire. Like loose change x10.

Lone Lantern

"This forum (911blogger) is great, but I wish there was a more formalized or central organization system for spreading 9/11 awareness."

I agree and thought of something like The Lone Lantern Society from GCN World Report

Won't it become unstoppable at some point?

I don't know about optimism or pessimism here. But this I do see: learning the truth goes one way only. Learning that something is quite false also goes one way only.

Most of us here started out believing in the official story. I did. A 9-11 truther got me to look at the evidence. That is all it took. The truther had posted a comment to an article. I read the article, then the comment. It got me to look at some evidence.

Have you ever heard of someone who doubts the official 9-11 fable later coming to believe in it? It never goes that way.

You asked, "It's not impossible to go backwards?" My answer is that a person cannot see that something is a lie, and then later believe it. Therefore, it can't go backwards -- at least, one's understanding can't do that. Motivation is another thing...

Each person here who realizes the government sham exerts an influence on many others to do the same. So this can only grow. As it grows, its growth rate can only accelerate. Won't it become unstoppable at some point?

This points to a remarkably simple strategy for us, as 9-11 truth advocates: show people how absurd the official story is. Once anyone sees this, they never return to the official fold.

precisely... critical mass

For a long time, we talked about "reaching critical mass". Not the point at which everyone knows, but the point at which ENOUGH people know so that containing the debate would be impossible. I think we already reached that point, and what we're seeing now is a scramble (in many senses) to control the fallout.

Remember the peprs thought they would get away with this, so they really didn't have a plan B if their containment strategy didn't work. We see their strategies, whatever they were (infiltration, disinfo, etc.), have been grossly inadequate, and yet aside from some variation on themes, they don't seem to have much else.

As more people become aware, at this point by word of mouth, DVDs, the internet, and even through hit pieces that backfire, there will be increasing pressure on people to take a stand and be accountable for it.

Renmember again, this is UNPRECEDENTED. We were challenged on 9/11 by the perps who knew that many people would see through their scheme. They were essentially saying--we know the thoughtful among you will know exactly what happened, and that is the point--you will see how futile it is to oppose our reality-creation, and you will give up. the masses are too stupid and brainwashed to ever listen to you, and we will paint you as holocaust denying animals anyway.

Now they see they miscalculated and you can bet your thermite that they are nervous. As more and more people wake up, we gain momentum, and they lose it. They are being put more and more on the defensive as we chip away at the monstrous lie, and pretty soon the whole story will be blown wide open with nowhere to hide.

As those with nothing to hide distance themselves from thjose with something to hide, the guilty begin to glow in a tell tale way. As they see each other in trouble, they know all bets are off and that the criminal's code of honor is out the window--it's every complicit character for themself.

The fuel is awareness--publicity--exposure--the light of day. Make yourself a walking billboard for 9/11 Truth--others will follow--soon it will be the national obsession, and when that happens, look out! history in the making is a bit like sausage in the making. it could get messy.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


I see your point about going backwards...

My main concern was that people are too good at deceiving themselves nowadays. That they choose for themselves what is true and not true without giving it the thought and intellectual obligation of not ignoring the consequences.

In many ways I see parallels in the Global Warming debate (somewhat on both sides), leading me to believe its a societal problem, essentially: ignoring contrary information.

From a strict logical or real argumentative standpoint, though, you're right... the OCT is unbelievable and eventually people have to come around. We just need to keep pushing for that format where ideas are weighed equally.

Scientific Method

The other day a blog here approached the pentagon information using the scientific method; in fact, this approach should be the paramount goal for any credible analysis of all topics of such magnitude. The process theology of David Ray
Griffin appears to share this principle.

If people get out in the street we might have a chance

If all the keyboard warriors keep sitting on their asses, we might not.

See you in the streets.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month


9/11 Action Net: A "9/11 Truth" Activist Networking Tool
Online at http://www.911action.net/ and featuring
activist directory, campaign index, forum and more.


Wouldn’t it be great to have 9/11 signs in all the news coverage of the march?

On January 27, at the anti-war rally on the Mall, we gave out over 400 "9/11 TRUTH NOW” signs. But that still wasn’t enough, and the TV news ignored us in their clips. This time, we’ll double that and try to position ourselves better in the crowd. But we need help. Come to DC and let’s get into every living room in America!

Marching on the street isn't

Marching on the street isn't necessarily more effective than writing online. What's really effective is setting goals and then deciding on tactics to achieve the goals. What is the overall goal of the 9/11 truth movement, what is the immediate goal?

These look like good questions

You ask: "What is the overall goal of the 9/11 truth movement, what is the immediate goal?"

With no leader, and no leadership organization, we can't really expect a collective answer to these questions. Here is my shot at them anyway, for what it is worth:

The overall goal of the 9/11 truth movement is that the governmental and societal systems underlying and perpetrating the 9/11 attacks -- or, at a minimum, enabling them -- be radically reformed, into people-oriented systems.

In other words, democracy has been all but killed, IMO, and it now needs to be restored. Same with freedom of the press. Funding priorities need to be restored, from dominance politics, both at home and worldwide, to people politics -- again, both here and internationally.

The immediate goal is to get a valid investigation, which uses valid means to come to valid conclusions about who did what, both prior to the 9/11 attacks and after them. Included in this immediate goal is that proper legal ramifications then follow, in the form of (many) prosecutions, including capital prosecution, and also resignations in the case of lesser crimes, such as gross negligence and/or deriliction of duty.

Really, this amounts to a re-building of society. I do believe we need that. You think this is too idealistic? What other choice is there?

Things will go from grim to grimmer, unless we unleash our idealism.

As I see it

the conflict pits two concepts of diametric opposition against each other: Centralization vs decentralization. If we succeed in overcoming the centralized media's influence by decentral grassroots action, we'll win, plain and simple, paving the way for a society manifesting true democracy, by the technical means now at our disposal. The internet will be our townhall, and discussions will be open to anyone. No more "special interest" bribery, no more two party theatre, just honest public debate to decide on the best course of action.

It will be amazing, and unleash the potential of our collective intellect, no doubt about it.

Stating the obvious...

Your comment about the internet is right-on. Where would 911 truth be without it? It would resemble where the official-story-doubters were after the Kennedy assassinations back then, i.e., nowhere. I don't think the perpetrators of this operation quite appreciated the powers of the internet, during the planning.

Watch for more efforts to control the internet.


The internet is not some toy or candy that we get when we are good and is taken away when we aren't--it's the natural evolution of human communication. It's not going anywhere.

On the principles of decentralization and individual empowerment we will achieve what previous movements have failed to do--break free of the managed and controlled existence of our parents and grandparents.

We really do have within our grasp a new world where we all participate in the process of governing. Our short term goals are simple--expose the 9/11 lies. There are enough of us now committed to make this succeed provided we keep this issue firmly fixed in the public view--mainly in the streets but also of course online where we can cross-pollinate with diverse local groups. Such an effort is impossible to thwart if it involves enough INDEPENDENT and FREE-THINKING individuals and groups. Sure you can go after a part of it, but while you do, the rest will adjust and create a new reality for you (god i love using that against the perps!) and you will then have to sit down and study the problem again, while we make gains.

I've had more than a few shilly types in the street ask me the same question, along the lines of "what are you trying to accomplish?" I always thought it was a weird question--isn't it obvious? I want the truth. I think I know why they ask that--knowing what your ultimate goal is is the best way for someone to try to thwart you. Publicizing our plans and goals is not as important as working towards them. Anyone who has to ask the question does not deserve an answer!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


Chipping ice.

Pushing the 9/11 Truth Movement is like chipping away at ice. You gotta love it.

I'm pretty optimistic,

I'm pretty optimistic, myself. Despite the blackout, our numbers are growing, and as bruce1337 likes to point out, that's a 1-way street in our direction.

John Albanese: For Example: disinformation about space beams and no-planes and anti-semitism is getting AIR TIME - while sober credible calls for reopening the investigation are being virtually ignored by the media.

The MSM aren't going to help us. They are owned and controlled by the very perps behing 9/11. So, our progress can't be measured by their acceptance of our legitimacy; they won't ever accept us, at least until the truth is so overwhelming and undeniable that they can't pretend any more. (What happens then, I don't know; is there any precedent?)

Real Truther: We were challenged on 9/11 by the perps who knew that many people would see through their scheme. They were essentially saying--we know the thoughtful among you will know exactly what happened, and that is the point--you will see how futile it is to oppose our reality-creation, and you will give up. the masses are too stupid and brainwashed to ever listen to you, and we will paint you as holocaust denying animals anyway.

I've thought about that very angle on all this a number of times. The less credible the lie, the bigger the intimidation factor achievable if you can get people to go along with it even if they don't personally believe it -- in fact, I wouldn't put it past them to get off on knowing how many people don't buy it but stay silent anyway. Think about that for a minute. But the big reward is the other side of the big risk coin, and we seem to be seeing that big risk (for them) coming into play now. My only real fear is, like RT hinted at, what will they do when we become a serious threat to their hold on power? Saddam, it's often argued (I think credibly), mustn't have had any WMD or he'd have used them against Bush's invasion force; these people do have various means at their disposal for attacking us and I don't think they're going to hesitate to use them when the time comes. To use the old phrase from the Bible, "gird up thy loins" 9/11 truthers. It's probably gonna get bumpy before it gets better.

Want to figure out 9/11? Ponder the 9/11 "Mineta Stone"

Optimistic, eh?

"these people do have various means at their disposal for attacking us and I don't think they're going to hesitate to use them when the time comes. To use the old phrase from the Bible, "gird up thy loins" 9/11 truthers. It's probably gonna get bumpy before it gets better."

Sounds pretty grim to me.

On the other hand you're right still, perhaps... if it comes down to that our movement will have to have progressed, right? Hence optimism.

Nobody said it would be easy

I'm optimistic that we're going to win. I'm not naive enough to think it'll happen without some trouble on the way.

Better? :-)

Want to figure out 9/11? Ponder the 9/11 "Mineta Stone"