Firefighters' Union Shuns Giuliani

The Firefighters' Union is holding a bipartisan election forum on March 14, 2007. They have invited several presidential candidates, but not Rudy Giuliani. Here is an excerpt of a statement from the firefighters:

"His actions post 9/11 rise to such an offensive and personal attack on our brother and sisterhood — and directly on our union — that the IAFF does not feel Rudy Giuliani deserves an audience of IAFF leaders and members at our own Presidential Forum.

The disrespect that he exhibited to our 343 fallen FDNY brothers, their families and our New York City IAFF leadership in the wake of that tragic day has not been forgiven or forgotten.

In November 2001, our members were continuing the painful, but necessary, task of searching Ground Zero for the remains of our fallen brothers and the thousands of innocent citizens that were killed, because precious few of those who died in the terrorist attacks had been recovered at that point.

Prior to November 2001, 101 bodies or remains of fire fighters had been recovered. And those on the horrible pile at Ground Zero believed they had just found a spot in the rubble where they would find countless more that could be given proper burial.

Nevertheless, Giuliani, with the full support of his Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen, decided on November 2, 2001, to sharply reduce the number of those who could search for remains at any one time. There had been as many as 300 fire fighters at a time involved in search and recovery, but Giuliani cut that number to no more than 25 who could be there at once.

In conjunction with the cut in fire fighters allowed to search, Giuliani also made a conscious decision to institute a "scoop-and-dump" operation to expedite the clean-up of Ground Zero in lieu of the more time-consuming, but respectful, process of removing debris piece by piece in hope of uncovering more remains.

Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill.

Our Local presidents at the time attempted to meet with the Mayor to stop this despicable treatment of those who perished, but he refused to even see them face-to-face.

The scoop-and-dump continued. And when hundreds of family members of the fallen joined with our affiliate leadership and members to protest Giuliani's decision, he ordered senior officers of the New York Police Department to arrest 15 of our FDNY brothers, including a number of local elected IAFF leaders.

Giuliani modified his policy after the protest because public opinion was so strongly with our members. Ultimately, he was forced to put the fire fighters back on the pile. Our protests were later proven justified as more bodies were ultimately recovered and those families given a chance for some closure and a decent burial.

Giuliani argued that the change was for our own safety, but his argument was empty and without substance. Fire fighters had been on that pile since minutes after the twin towers fell — why all of a sudden, after nearly two months working on the pile, was Giuliani concerned about fire fighter safety?

In our view, he wasn't really concerned. The fact is that the Mayor's switch to a scoop-and-dump coincided with the final removal of tens of millions of dollars of gold, silver and other assets of the Bank of Nova Scotia that were buried beneath what was once the towers. Once the money was out, Giuliani sided with the developers that opposed a lengthy recovery effort, and ordered the scoop-and-dump operation so they could proceed with redevelopment."

he is just a useful idiot for there causes

Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill.

Not just Goulinani our whole damn Government the press acdemia I would like to know who is bank rollin this fool.

Hey WAY TO GO NYFD !!!

You tell'im boys. That rotten bastard should be shunned all the way into the middle of the garbage barge as it heads out to sea.
He was in on it, he orchestrated it, he viewed it coming down from the safety of WTC 7, he lied about it, and he's culpable for murdering everyone who died there, and those who are STILL dieing.
BURN THE BASTARD !!
That gold in the basement was pulled out BEFORE the hit.
see #400

Remember; Nixon never thought he'd be caught either !
808 links to stories exposing the Plot
9/11=PNAC Plot
http://erroneousbusczh.homestead.com/9-11Plot.html

Vote in these opinion polls

Vote accordingly against Giuliani:
http://minguo.info/usa/node/4

Is 9/11 the most important campaign issue for you?
http://minguo.info/usa/node/13

And if we want better elected officials, we also need a better voting method:
http://minguo.info/usa/node/3

The news "Firefighters' Union Shuns Giuliani" was reported on that site, too, with a back link to here:
http://minguo.info/usa/node/11

Wow...

And don't forget the radios.


"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

This can be useful

Reading this letter leads one to the next question: why did Rudy feel he had to switch to a "scoop and dump" approach to clearing the site? His defenders will say that it was necessary to restore the site as quickly as possible, but others can ask why the debris was removed so quickly and with so little time for analyzing a crime scene.

It really sickens me to see how Rudy is riding 9/11 to a Presidential nomination. Everyone should read a recent cover story in New York Magazine about this. It's bad enough for him to be milking the tragedy, but if he was connected to the attacks, it's disgusting.

There's one particularly galling section in the New York piece where Rudy talks about the image of the firefighters raising the flag at Ground Zero: "I knew what they were standing on top of, Guiliani says. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days. And they put their lives at risk raising that flag." The room is silent. Not a fork hits a plate, not one gold bracelet rattles. "They put the flag up to say, 'You can't beat us, because we're Americans'".

Gee, Rudy, what did cause fires to rage at 2,000 degrees for a hundred days? Jet fuel from two airliners?

Good question...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/07/terror/main503218.shtml

"When there is a car accident and two people are killed, you keep the car until the trial is over," he says. "If a plane crashes, not only do you keep the plane, but you assemble all the pieces, take it to a hangar, and put it together. That’s only for 200, 300 people, when they die. In this case you had 3,000 people dead. You had a major machine, a major manmade structure. My wish was that we had spent whatever it takes, maybe $50 million, $100 million, and maybe two years, get all this steel, carry it to a lot. Instead of recycling it, put it horizontally, and assemble it. You have maybe 200 engineers, not just myself running around trying to figure out what’s going on. After all, this is a crime scene and you have to figure out exactly what happened for this crime, and learn from it. But that was my wish. My wish is not what happens."


"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

Another interesting quote from that story

"He also came across severely scorched members from 40 or so floors below the points of impact. He believes that the planes obliterated the elevator walls, allowing burning fuel to pour down into the building, igniting blazes hundreds of feet below the main fire. "When the plane hit," he says, "the walls around the elevator shaft were gone, just thrown away." These lower-floor fires may have contributed to the collapse, and certainly added to the death toll."

Some day, I would like to see a group of specialists explain this phenomenon, because the whole "fuel ignited fires hundreds of feet below the impact" theory doesn't make sense to my amateur eye.

For one thing, the momentum of the planes (500mph, something debunkers like to emphasize) clearly carried most of the fuel forward (and into a fiery explosion external to the towers), so how would enough "burning fuel" fall downward into these elevator shafts, most of which don't go all the way from the top of the tower to the bottom?

They make it sound like the fuel traveled down from impact like a bucket pouring water; but this is a bucket moving 500mph and clearly launching the water forward, not down.

That story

That story is interesting in that the investigator seems confident that the official theory of collapse is the right one, even as he notes that they didn't do a good job of protecting the evidence.

But Horrors! He's Iranian!

To our true 9/11 hero's

The firemen and women.....Thank you!

From another IAFF article

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257902,00.html

"Regrettably, the situation with former Mayor Giuliani is very different. His actions post 9/11 rise to such an offensive and personal attack on our brother and sisterhood — and directly on our union — that the IAFF does not feel Rudy Giuliani deserves an audience of IAFF leaders and members at our own Presidential Forum.

The disrespect that he exhibited to our 343 fallen FDNY brothers, their families and our New York City IAFF leadership in the wake of that tragic day has not been forgiven or forgotten.

In November 2001, our members were continuing the painful, but necessary, task of searching Ground Zero for the remains of our fallen brothers and the thousands of innocent citizens that were killed, because precious few of those who died in the terrorist attacks had been recovered at that point.

Prior to November 2001, 101 bodies or remains of fire fighters had been recovered. And those on the horrible pile at Ground Zero believed they had just found a spot in the rubble where they would find countless more that could be given proper burial.

Nevertheless, Giuliani, with the full support of his Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen, decided on November 2, 2001, to sharply reduce the number of those who could search for remains at any one time. There had been as many as 300 fire fighters at a time involved in search and recovery, but Giuliani cut that number to no more than 25 who could be there at once.

In conjunction with the cut in fire fighters allowed to search, Giuliani also made a conscious decision to institute a "scoop-and-dump" operation to expedite the clean-up of Ground Zero in lieu of the more time-consuming, but respectful, process of removing debris piece by piece in hope of uncovering more remains."
-------------------

America's Mayor? Gimme a break! This former 'prosecuting attorney' was well aware that he was engaging in the destruction of evidence from the crime scene at Ground Zero. And this man has the gall to run for President of the U.S.???

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" -- Edward R. Murrow

where has IAFF been until now?

This is a great development. I even heard Ed Schultz talk about this press release on his radio show today. And yet, why isn't IAFF talking about the eye-witness testimony of several of its members regarding explosions inside the towers. OR the evacuation orders prior to building 7 demolition. This is a great statement from IAFF, and yet it doesn't go far enough. They could have made reference to the fact that a thorough investigation of the crime site was thwarted by rapid removal of the steel for recycling, the pools of molten metal, etc. And lastly, why isn't IAFF talking about the toxic dust and lost of life due to the air quality of lower Manhattan? All of which could be related back the Ghoul himself!

New York Press

http://www.nypress.com/blogx/display_blog.cfm?bid=50106812

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/NEWS/7...


"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

Ghiuliani: Disrespect? The IAFF is being Diplomatic

This scoundrel Ghiuliani ran out of his uber-bunker aka EMC aka 911 HOAX Operational HQ site like a verminous rat leaving a sinking ship.

He gave no orders for anyone else to evacuate the WTC 1,2.
In fact, after some civilians in the WTC 1,2 started to leave those towers, orders were given to "GO BACK TO YOUR DESKS, ALL IS SAFE"...
Admittedly he did not give these specific orders, but surely if he is to apparently "get credit" for his POST-911 HOAX "leadership" then surely he should be held responsible for his actions DURING the 911 HOAX operation.

Indeed his aides were in contact with the White House and told to leave the area, and yet no such information was passed to the poor innocent souls in WTC 1,2.

President Ghiuliani ?
This man needs to be tried for Treasonous Acts Against His Country and immediately brought up on War Crime Charges and yet the Whore-ish MSM is positing that he is a likely candidate for US President.

Just goes to show you how fracked up the world is when the USA is the greatest country in the world.

---
September 11, 2001: The Greatest HOAX ever perpetrated on Earth

very strong statement

In this statement from Firefighting News, by heads of several unions and associations, they go on to say: "The fact is that the Mayor's switch to a scoop-and-dump coincided with the final removal of tens of millions of dollars of gold, silver and other assetts ... Giuliani had said he was committed to the recovery of those lost right down to the last brick... he really meant the last gold brick."

This, and the rest of the statement is a gold mine! Every appearance Ghouliani makes on his run for President is an opportunity to bring attention to 9/11 Truth as I did just last Monday. The Sheriffs gave me plenty of space when the press gathered round, and I made plenty of references to firefighter issues. So much so, that one reporter even asked me if I was a firefighter. I smiled and said no, but I care about the firefighters. The press seems interested in this angle.

as they should be...

One reason for the over the top glorification of the role of firefighters during and shortly after september 11th was the fact that the perps knew that they had shafted and would be further shafting them. Thus the complicit MSM talked the talk knowing full well that no one was going to be walking the walk for the firefighters, who truly were the Americans most victimized by the real 9/11 criminals.

I remember someon a while back quoting a firefighter who said upon being offered some truth materials that he would not even look at them, because if he found out it was an inside job he would have to "do something about it." That says a lot. I think I know what said firefighter meant--he would feel like doing something he knows he shouldn't do.

How many of us don't feel the same way? The firefighters symbolize all of us--we are the ones who work for a living, we are the ones called on to sacrifice, we are the ones who are lied to by the powerful, we are the ones whose voices are censored.

When the firefighters come out strong for the truth, the nightmare will be over for all of us. That will be a sign that no one will mistake, no one will be able to ignore, and that no one can stop from happening in time.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

 

No FF Truth?

When I read this post, I immediately searched for a 'firefighters' 9/11 Truth group. I cant seem to locate one though...this is not something Ive ever noticed!
Are there any firefighters that support this cause?
I see so many of them speaking the truth on these online documentaries that I always assumed that there was some sort of collective involving firefighters. What will it take to get these people on our side?
When I see these confrontations in public, they always seem to make the assumption that because we are 9/11 Truthers, we are somehow disparaging or disrespecting the victims of that crime. From my perspective, that is far from it; supporting 9/11 Truth means supporting the victims. The people and their families are the principle victimes here, but we have all been affected in the aftermath of that day.
How can we get people to understand this? We want this crime to be solved. We want the true 'masterminds' to be brought to justice, and even a casual perusal of evidence contradicting the 'official theory' is enough to lead to the realization that we're not being told the whole story. Lets hope that the fireman will stand up beside us.

Yes, we need to do a careful, well-planned

outreach campaign with all the firefighters across America.

In this regard, there are three principle challenges we need to overcome:

1) The generally conservative nature of most firefighters means that they will not be inclined toward 9/11 Truth, and

2) The FDNY members and retirees are under enormous pressure to not speak about what they know about the events of 9/11/01 in NYC, and

3) Some debunkers (e.g. Mark Roberts) have intentionally framed the debate about WTC 7 in a way that pits the Truth movement against the firefighters. The fallacious claim they advance is that the Truth movement believes that all of the FDNY was complicit in or is actively covering up the controlled demolition of WTC 7 (good old divide and conquer yet again).

These challenges are not insurmountable, we just have to be aware the oppositions tactics, be smart and make a concerted effort at reaching out to firefighters. Once we get a solid group on the side of 9/11 Truth they should be able to make real progress with many of their fellow brothers and sisters.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

He's obviously concerned

He's obviously concerned about being hurt by this. He seems to have responded with an astroturf group, "Firefighters for Rudy".

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/mar/09/rudy...

and Hillary

They should not give Hillary a free ride either. The Senator from New York knows what happened that day, and she is part of the cover-up too.

sure, all silent politicians

sure, all silent politicians are, but Rudy actually played a direct role in the cover-up. im not saying dont hound Hillary and others, but Rudy is on a different level.

Who's gonna go in court againt

Who's gonna go in court againt that screwed up ex mayor that help kill thousands of people. Is there somewhere a firm of lawyer to take his case in charge. So much had been said about him, we have enought proof... I can't believe there is not out there a group of lawyers willing to jump on the case.!

Drummerboy

This is a big story. This

This is a big story. This could make national mainstream news.

Big story indeed.

This will effectively sink his presidential bid. The prevailing image in the national psyche of Giuliani is one of him in the FDNY hat.
This will destroy that public myth. (There's a juicy one for you MR. Zelikow.)

Is Guliani talking out his ass? Or deflecting?

"He believes that the planes obliterated the elevator walls, allowing burning fuel to pour down into the building, igniting blazes hundreds of feet below the main fire. "
Where was the smoke from that? coming from the impact areas? What did the NIST surmise? that it wasn't fire that brought these structures down? Guliani..tsk tsk...A former mayor...If You cared at all about those lives that were lost, then you could say something more significant than that, instead of making it sound like you didn't know that much about those structures. I'm thinking that He had stepped foot in those buildings before 9/11, a few times.

The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles.

Jersey Girls' list of questions

I've been looking for the list of questions the Jersey Girls submitted to the 911 Commision, for Rudi Giuliani. Anyone iknow where that list is? I couldn't find it on Jim Hoffman's site, nor at the Press for Truth site. It is a really good list.

Whenever Rudi goes anywhere, at any political rally or whatever, someone should bring out that list and ask him about it. He needs to answer each question on it. The public needs awareness of that list, and of the items on the list.

Here it is...

http://911independentcommission.org/giuliani31804.html


"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

Oops... and thanks; also, blog it?

I think I should have said 'Jersey Widows.' They deserve the dignified title.

(Athough, oddly, Googling with Jersey Girls does seem to get to articles on them.)

Thanks for the link, Jon. That is the exact document I was looking for.

I hope people here look at this list of questions. Anyone going to a Giuliani event should take it with them.

Jon: blog it?

Go ahead.

Though I think it's possible those are the unanswered questions for Rudy Giuliani. The complete set, I believe, exists on www.911pressfortruth.com in the Downloads section. It's a review of the 9/11 Report, and ratings for each question asked.


"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

Your first list is the one

Jon, for some reason the longer document you mention here has nothing regarding Giuliani.

I think I remember something about that in the PFT video, about them not being able to get their questions to him, and some run-around they got into on that topic? I think there is a story behind it. I gather that the Jersey widows got pretty disgusted with how he behaved towards them.

So I submited the list of questions for consideration as a blog entry. It's sort of an old document now, but just as relevant as when they put those questions together. Maybe more so now, with him on the campaign trail.

Don't you think...

We should get that list into the hands of any political opponents that he might face, and into the hands of hecklers at campaign rallies, with stacks of them there for people to read, at every campaign stop. And give it to the press, whenever his name comes up.

In that way, at least potentially, having Giuliani on the campaign trail helps our cause.

David Hawkins and Captain McClellen

I just thought it would be interesting to bring up what other investigators are doing to bring about a real trial for the 911 perps. I think Hawkins incorporates more evidence into the big picture of 911 and gets us thinking also in the areas of the war games, investment groups and exact people who would gain from 911 and who might have been the perps in 911.

Hawkins is a forensic economist and has been investigating the money trail of 911. His bio http://www.hawkscafe.com/bio.html

Talk about an ambitious investigation.

I am amazed at the level of detail of his investigation. Only time will tell if he is on the money.

His website is at:
hawkscafe.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Hawks CAFE claims NYC police and firefighters were killed on 9/11 during an engineered panic of the stock market to generate kickbacks to two-tier pension funds in the custody of the CAI-Carlyle Canada private equity

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/message/120

There are about 380 members in this yahoo group. Apparently now this group is acting as a cyber space virtual grand jury. 350 of this members signed up in the past week.

Anyone can join this group. I wonder if there are any perps who have joined ? I am sure they want to know what is going on.

A grand jury is a jury, at common law, of 12 to 23 persons, designated to inquire into alleged violations of the law in order to ascertain whether the evidence is sufficient to warrant trial.

http://www.hawkscafe.com/061306.html

I am asking for help from Boeing's board of directors in tracing the teachers' national pension funds (TIAA-CREF) through the CAI private-equity group of world bankers, allegedly including David Rockefeller, who appear to have sponsored Boeing SWAT* teams in simulated attacks on America during the war games of 9/11. http://www.caifunds.com/ourinvestors.html

let me preface by saying i

let me preface by saying i love 911blogger.com and dont know what i would do without it. that said, a John McCain ad? i know you need money to keep this site going but jesus, have you no standards?

Why refuse the income?

The shaft of the arrow had been feathered with one of the eagle's own plumes. We often give our enemies the means of our own destruction.
--Aesop

quite simply....

because John McCain is a scumbag. not to mention he took some cheap shots at the 9/11 truth movement in that P.M. piece of crap book.

i assure you we have no

i assure you we have not approved any john mccain ad..

now, if it is showing up as a google ad, there is little i can do about that.. although i should be able to request not to have that ad run on my site..

if you see it again plz grab me a screenshot and email me!!

Are you kidding? Take the money!

Wouldn't google just have to find a replacement site to run it? (or run it more often at other sites or whatever?) When I've seen it, I've experienced sheer pleasure at the knowledge that his money is being wasted by putting that ad in front of the audience here.

haha, good point. i guess

haha, good point. i guess its better than a Giuliani one at least.......

will do!

haha, its cool dz, i was only being kind of serious. i only saw it once and it jarred me a little bit,haha. keep up the good work man.

Ghouliani

likes drag? This could have been the opening of "the Aristocrats"...

Is that ...

Giuliani or Amanda Reconwith?