Loose Change Final Cut trailer.

My take on a Loose Change Final Cut trailer.


Give me some feedback on what you think.

In case you missed it in the Opening Post;

This is not an official Loose Change trailer.

I did...

and one more point.The truth is being told to all those smart enough to research it. This does'nt take long.
So with that i say........The truth needs to be HEARD!

I was ok up until the end

where you cut the flow by stopping the music, and inserted the larry quote, amid silence, then ended.

the whole point of a trailer is to end with the viewer wanting to see more. The way you ended it, it was like huh?

Sorry if I am not explaining it properly, just seemed odd. Was good until then tho. I liked how you used the lc music.

Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB

? Good ?

I can wait for the official trailer though..... I want to hear A taste of Charlie's narration!!!
Together in Truth!


I thought it was a GREAT video. GOOD JOB!

Getting to the Real Point

Maybe it's too dry to spend a lot of time on narrative, but it seems to me the most important point of LC FC should be that, above all, a new official investigation is called for.

What, another cover-up? I don't trust the Gov't to honestly

investigate anything, let alone investigating themselves regarding 9/11!

That's why we usually say a

That's why we usually say a new INDEPENDENT investigation--which I'm sure is what bg meant.


Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Loose cHangout Final Cuban

I know I'm not the only one, so I figured we should get this out in the open.

I'm going to go on record now questioning the legitimacy of Loose Change as an honest truth film.

We've all heard by now of the admission by the Loose Change kids that their movie is flawed and that they left the errors in to promote debate (lame excuse.) More likely the mistakes were left in to enable the creation of anti-truth sites like Screw Loose Change. I realize a lot of people consider the Loose Change kids heroes of the movement--I remember how great it felt to watch it for the first time thinking FINALLY someone made a 9/11 truth film with real mass appeal. Not the dowdy Dave von Kleist's In Plane Site, or the eccentric Eric Hufschmid's painful deceptions, but instead an agglomeration of the two set to snazzy edits and hip rhythmic tunes. We marvelled at the precocious young filmmaker's ability to produce such a polished film with such fancy graphics. And we wondered what his two tag-along friends' roles were. But in the end it didn't matter--we felt a strong tide rising just after we first saw David Griffin lecture at the University of Wsiconsin.

But we know much more now than we did then.

We've seen the vast reach of disinfo, not just in the obvious caricatures of a Nico Haupt, but in the time-bomb ruthlessness of a Jim Fetzer. We know they are trying to destroy us with a diversity of tactics, heavy on infiltration and misplaced trust.

And so we come to a crossroads. Rosie O'Donnell has sounded the call in the mainstream media as the movement girds its loins for the release of LCFC. No explanation has been forthcoming (to my knowledge) as to the reasoning behind Loose Change's affiliation with anti-truth billionaire Mark Cuban. Criticism of Loose Change is dismissed by the boys and their fans as the griping of jealous player haters. And yet in a seemingly characteristic "debate" the Loose Change boys missed a clear opportunity to put Jim Meigs out of business. How hard would it have been to go through the Popular Mechanics article in order to put Meigs on the spot about any one of its many gross deceptions? Instead we get the boys getting upset and calling Meigs a liar, as left gatekeeper Amy Goodman, clearly having a good time, helps the boys reveal their ignorance of recent history by exposing the fact that they did not know that Dick Cheney was secretary of defense under George Bush.

Unfortunately what the boys revealed in that interview is that they, like their movie, are not really grounded in rigorous analysis of history. It is, as evidenced by the cottage industry of debunkiing sites it spawned, primarily Screw Loose Change, a collection of poorly sourced references to odd factoids peppered with some of the real issues, all receiving the same level of scrutiny which is to say not much. Most astoundingly the film does not include a single instance of the word Israel (go ahead and do a search through a transcript!) You don't have to be anti-semitic to wonder why these boys wouldn't "go there." In an America living under the stranglehold of the Israel lobby, the truth movement must stand up without fear and expose the almost inexhaustible laundry list of leads pointing to Israel--otherwise what's the point? I can understand a balanced approach including references to all the other foreign nations that possibly assisted in planning any aspect of the crime, but the complete omission of Israel in Loose Change is the nail in the coffin for the film's credibility, without even having to bring anti-truth billionaire Mark Cuban into the discussion.

When the time comes, when those who may be reluctant to speak out at this point see where LCFC begins taking the movement, and if that is indeed toward a limited hangout that preserves the evil muslim myth or by its omissions seeks to make bringing up Israel's role make one stick out like an anti-semitic thumb, when the Loose Change boys are screwing up another interview while basking with their shades on under the hot lights of fame and fortune, I hope people will grasp the importance of distancing ourselves from and actively opposing, as we did Nico Haupt and Jim Fetzer, the herd mentality that will no doubt ride roughshod over our efforts.

Yep, you heard me right--it's my opinion that Loose Change is disinfo. I see that some of you are coming towards me with a cross and some nails chanting DIVIDER! HERETIC! Well, do what you must. Some ideas live on precisely because they divide and flourish, even after a crucifixion...

Onward truthers!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


Egad, I hope you have one of these

I share similar concerns....

...why would the perps let this movie be made and distributed? It would seem all too easy to kill in the early stages....I don't really understand why that hasn't happened....

Cuban's actions (extinguishing Halifaxion's sites), remarks (O"Lielly interview) and biography are not reassuring, IMO.

And, I read here recently that the Carlyle Group owns something like 80% of the nation's movie theaters...is that true? Do we really expect them to show an honest 9/11 expose?

LCFC has been pushed back and pushed back...now Aug. 07. Delay is not our friend, it is the perps'.

Personally, at this point, I'd rather look forward to a well-financed extended version of Danse's "The Third Stage".....

I hope my concerns are baseless, and I really love many things about LCSE.....and in that vein....

....I still have tremendous confidence in David Ray Griffin (in spite of his emphasis on the ISI connection) however, and his vetting of the script bodes well...that is one reassuring aspect.

Carlyle bought Loews

But they may have already sold it... not sure. Dunkin' Donuts is a recent Carlyle acquisition...

I should say that even if I'm right about about LC being some kind of disinfo, it will still raise the visibility of the fact that tehre are many unanswered questions--my concern is that it not become the Loose Change movement--that it be a departing point for much more rigorous and nuanced discussions by the public.

As awareness grows, an dthe debate occurs more and more on our terms, I think we can also afford to ratchet down the vitriol-we should NOT follow the example of Daryl Bradford Smith and Eric Hufschmid, who take criticism of Israel and Zionism to an uncomfortably and unnecessarily accusatory and shrill level. We cannot fault Jewish Americans or Israelis for recoiling in horror from these guys sometimes, particularly when they throw around labels like "crypto-Jew".

One of the things I learned from researching Lucky Larry's activities in trying to force a free trade zone into existence in Israel with his IEDC as the sole concessionaire is that we have more Jewish allies in Israel than many people think. Some leftist Israeli poltiicans went so far as to reasonably suggest that the laissez-faire zone desired by Silverstein could easily serve as a haven for the global drug trade, for example, not to mention the risk to fair labor standards. The concerns over the cheap labor that the free trade zone in the Negev desert would facilitate resonates with working Americans' own concerns over Bush's guest worker program--when it comes down to it, we are ALL natural allies against the corrupt elements who appeal to ethnic or religious bonds to get away with their crimes and pre-empt a united front against them.

By exempting criminal elements from scrutiny because they are either Israeli or Jewish is both wrongheaded and dangerous. Not only are the criminals aided by this but the divisiveness created breeds its own problems. There is a huge difference between preaching the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and pointing out the corrosive effects of blind nationalism disguised as "anti-anti-semitism" as practiced by demagogues like Alan Dershowitz, who has taken the defense of murderers to unparalleled levels in his career. Others, while not nearly as loud or effective, follow his lead when they pretend that the only reason people might have for speaking out against a Jewish mafia is anti-semitism. As if criticism of Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, or any number of other famous mob figures was a sign of anti-Italianism! It is time to call spades spades with impunity. Did Douglas Feith and other Jewish (and non-Jewish) neo-cons conspire to lie us into war in the middle east? Yes they did and it is disingenuous to say that this rabidly pro-Israel crowd was just in it for the oil.

Did Larry Silverstein attempt to strongarm Israeli hawks like Netanyahu and Sharon into giving him a piece of Israel in which to create an Ayn Rand fantasyland of corporate tyranny and criminality? And that among others was hired the wife of right-wing legend Newt Gingrich? Or that this sort of free-market zone was called for by Doug Feith and Richard Perle in their document A Clean Break: Securing the [Israeli] Realm? Are we wrong to think about what it means that this is the man who profited from the demolition of the WTC, an event "documented" by proven Israeli agents working for a Mossad front company owned by a man who imemdiately fled to Israel, leaving the shell company in disarray? And that the release of these agents was secured by none other than Michael Chertoff, a dual American-Israeli national whose relative assisted in the production of Popular Mechanics rambling coverup of 9/11? Does taking notice of these facts and believing them to be important to share with others make one an anti-semite? Obviously not, but anyone who does will be tarred with the same brush used on the likes of David Duke, who is given an inordinate amount of publicity by the same media who call us lunatics for questioning the free fall collapse of building 7.

These are just a few of the things that need to be discussed but are not discussed nearly enough. Can you imagine what would happen if Rosie raised tehse concerns? No offense to Rosie, because she is indeed the bravest of her colleagues, but questioning the collapse of building 7 is quite literally the least one could do with regard to exposing the truth about 9/11.

Will we be up for the challenge ahead? It's not easy to defuse a minefield of hatred maliciously sown by those with everything to lose from unity among peoples.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force


I don't know about the

I don't know about the honesty of the film, but I do hope people stop expecting "the next big thing" to be the lifeblood of the movement, whether it's the next celebrity, next film, next breakthrough...

No person with a microphone is going to speak with precision accuracy every time, any film will be discredited in some circles if there is so much as an improper punctuation mark, and the release of new information will usually force previous assumptions to be revised.

Things get corrupted in many ways. People get corrupted for many reasons; sometimes they're aware of it and sometimes they're not.

Alex Jones has a big ego (despite his occasional "I'm a humble guy" protestations), and he wants to be known as the guy who "broke the story." That makes him succeptible to running with bad information at the same time he is doing a lot of good things. His radio personality is not everyone's cup of tea, and self-professed martyrs can be problematic. Solution? Don't mentally endow him with an elevated leadership role -- he's just one guy. Besides, the ball is rolling with him or without him.

The LC guys are very young and ill-spoken, and a significant percentage of people just won't take them seriously. They have a very high profile and they're being plied from many sides. Solution? LCFC is just one of many documentaries on 9/11, so whether it makes it into theaters or not doesn't make or break the movement. Another solution? "Hey guys -- how 'bout the next '9/11 Mysteries?' Don't you love Danse's new film? How many people have you sent it to?  Got cable access channels in your 'hood?  See if they'll show PFT."

Rosie's been great, but to put pressure on her to be an "official spokesperson" is a mistake. Who knows where that will lead? Solution? Celebrate the fact that she's encouraged a new wave of people to research 9/11, support her right to speak out, and get back to work.

No one has a bead on exactly what happened, who did what, and how it all fits together. Focus on the commonalities in all of the efforts --they add up to the fact that the official story is a lie.  And that is why the dam is breaking. 

VERY well said

that's what I would write about Loose Change and Alex Jones if I wasn't such a playa hata... :)

seriously though you nailed it. isn't it great that it isn't just the same old same old anymore? doesn't that kind of fertility mean we are indeed a viable growing living movement?

thanks for putting the positive spin on what i feared might be a divisive broadside.


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force



Michael Berger is an excellent representative. He's calm cool and collected. He seems to stay on point with effortless precision.
Together in Truth!

haha, you act like this is

haha, you act like this is the first time you've bashed Loose Change. heretic? not at all, you just fail to see or admit the overall positive impact that Loose Change has had. i dont trust Cuban either(or think that LC2E is perfect.far from it) but that isnt gonna blind me to the fact that LC2E has changed many minds about 9/11. also, considering Loose Change was far and away the most visible 9/11 related documentary on the net, does it surprise you that it has sites devoted to bashing/debunking it? you dont think that would have happened with WHATEVER 9/11 movie happened to make it to the top? as far as "maintaining the muslim myth" goes, i would say that LC2E shouldnt be your biggest target. i can think of at least 2 high profile 9/11 docs off hand that are more guilty of that charge. and as far as ignoring Israel goes, i couldnt agree more, Dylan and the guys were fucking cowards on that one and continue to be, but again that doesnt blind me to the cold hard FACT that the film has opened many many eyes. so the media seeks out the makers of the most visible 9/11 film who happen to be pretty young and therefor not as up on history as maybe they could be. that makes them disinfo?

HERETIC! HERETIC! I'll light the fires--WITCH! He's a Witch!

Actually I respectfully disagree, but do take some of your points under consideration.

I think it's more likely, --if you are broadly correct, if not in specific cases--their enthusiasm and naivete has gotten them entagled with someone elses program.

Also--re: Amy Goodman interview--and I totally agree it was wince induceing in places--their behavior can just as easily be explained by anger, impatience and inexperience. AND the interview with our Mark and my Ronnie was 10X better--in exactly the way someone improves after having good constructive critizism about the last interview.

So, cards: Loose Change disinfo? Jenny says "no", but has an open mind and will consider new info.


Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

I'm open to being proven wrong

and even would say I hope I'm wrong. to Chris--look man, I've said plenty of times how much Loose Chnage helped to raise awareness. It served a purpose at a point in time. It could just as easily serve a very different purpose at a point in time in the near future.

My purpose here (as it seems to often be) is to go with that nagging feeling because I realize a lot of others have the same nagging feeling but don't enjoy getting crapped on as much as I seem to.

When the time comes, if Loose Change Final Cut proves to live up to the hype, or even just be decent, then I will sing its praises as merited.

I just want people to know where I stand, in case others feel simialrly, so that we don't feel like lepers for having taken down our AJ and LC posters from our walls some time ago....

DRG is still up tehre, of course--man looks GREAT in speedo, for his age!


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force



"Look at his hair!"
"That PROVES it!"

lol--BTW those are "Black Adder" references, 1st season, "Witch Smeller Pursuivant".

God, I'm such a geek.

Seriously, I respect what you're saying. My paranoi-a-meter is going off all the time--mostly false alarms. I do have questions about how this whole going public in major theaters is going to work. I'd feel less twitchy if they were focusing on art houses first--expecting to be picked up when the sales force theatre owners to go with their greed.

So I remain cautiously optimistic--but still cautious. ;-)

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

let geekdom reign

OK so I thought you were mangling Monty Python--She LOOKS like one! But I have to say I missed that Black Adder ref, though I've seen em all--and I was very nearly moved to tears by the finale of BA goes forth--the futility and insanity of war as seen from the front by the poor shmucks unlucky or stupid enough to end up there. Beeeh!

As for why the elites/perps find AJ useful/tolerable... I'm starting to think of disinfo as a continuum of sorts, where any and every truth is allowed to be spoken so long as it is muddled with a few choice flavors that limit its appeal. For an example I came across recently, check out www.saneworks.us, their mission and about us links, and tell me that it doesn't somewhat resemble something I would call "Alex Jones for the rabid neocon".

I think we who have had the truth of 9/11 burst our bubble tend to think of the truth as something that is guarded at all costs. In a way it is, but not by not being allowed to be spoken. As someone said, in America we're allowed to believe anything, but to know nothing. It foesn't matter how much AJ reveals, that is his role, in addition to flavoring the facts with a healthy dose of "mainstream joe repellent" in the form of a few extreme views, the bullhorn, etc. The elites/perps/we need a new word for them/people know that you can't possibly hide good information completely, so best to obscure it in an impenetrable fog of other info that makes exposing it problmatic for the would-be truthseeker.

Anything we discover has the potential to be disinfo and make us look like kooks. Think of the reaction of a total mainstream sheeple or whatever to AJ at first glance--damn what a freak! is many if not most poeple's reaction. The fact some of us still think so even after seeing him provide us with so much truth just goes to show that there is something rather "truth containing" about him that is more effective than any "truth vault". You can't deceive without credibility, and as more people discover the extent of the lies it becomes necessary to keep up. So of course the biggest lies AJ won't touch--let's say the fake moon landings or the exagerrated claims about the holocaust--those remain firmly in "REAL moonbat" territory. But are those really such outlandish and incredible claims? They are to AJ fans, but not to Hufschmid fans, who have all kinds of credibility issues to deal with. See what I mean?

AJ groupies make the mistake of thinking that they've found the holy grail (to tie it all back to Jenny's witches, or my confusion about them anyway) and become very defensive and protective of a certain narrative that seems to be telling them the whole truth--but how do they know if they don't know what he's actually intended to hide from them?

Compartmentalizing good knowledge to prevent its synthesis into the "master debunkation of the elites' (or whomevers--AJ would say NWO) would seem to be the goal. It's more managed than we really want to believe I think is the other problem--we like to think we have a fighting chance--and we do, as long as we avoid groupthink and constantly question and challenge our own personal orthodoxies and compare notes with other thoughtful and honest free thinkers, which is why I hold my tongue so as not to get banished from all yous for good!

cheers--RT gets on a plane tomorrow so if you don't see the secret coded message I passed around to everyone on these boards in the next few days, you'll know "they" got me. Whoever "they"is. ;)


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force



This mean you have a dicky bladder and a wooden leg? Or was that a dicky leg and a wooden bladder? Whichever--as long as it keeps you behind the lines and closer to Blightey, eh?

I found this very insightful:

"As someone said, in America we're allowed to believe anything, but to know nothing. "

I would add that the awareness of the difference between "belief" and "knowledge" are completely muddled in the American mind, or at least how it's discussed publically.

IMO, this is due to the historically strong influence organized religon has had on the States, for good or for evil. Unlike the Old World, whose democratic traditions developed out of rabble rousers speaking in town squares and public markets, in the States, even before the colonies suceeded, the habit was to discuss politics inside, and this was usually a church. And somewhere along the line "freedom of belief" turned into "freedom to ignore physical reality", then mutated into a "right to ignore physical reality".

This has made anyone Stateside trying to understand ANYTHING with adegree of mastery almost impossible, by the usual channels. Seriously, some adults should be suing the high ranking administrators of the school system who approve text books for the deliberate indoctrination of ignorance. The only reason I don't push this stronger is I KNOW they will find a way to pass the blame on to individual hardworking teachers. We have instiutionalized ignorance, as well as neglecting to teach people how to think logically--MY GOD--I'M TURNING INTO MY EX-BOYFRIEND! He'll get a laugh if he sees this--it's one of his peeves, that IMHO, he's overstated--but he's still basically right.

Anyway, yeah, --most of what you said. And casseia told me about that "saneworks" tot--I'll check it out when I'm done with the garden.

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

hahaha, no AJ or LC posters

hahaha, no AJ or LC posters here man, but i cant in good conscience let you shit on them as much as you always seem to without at least having a say. Alex Jones pisses me off in a lot of ways(obsessing over global warming and illegal immigration, focusing on religious issues too much etc.) and i tend to agree with you that he "fear-mongers" a bit too much, though i wouldnt put it like that. i feel like hes just letting people know about the most extreme possibilities if they dont wake up. personally i never really liked his style and felt he would be more effective if he toned it down. but to call him disinfo? if thats so hes doing one TERRIBLE job and should probably be fired. his website has some original stuff but mainly just links to other alternative news sites and has essays by people like Paul Craig Roberts, Kurt Nimmo and others. all disinfo? thats all my point is. i find it hard to believe that someone who does such a good job of putting such important and suppressed information out there is disinfo. yes, i know, disinfo is usually 90% fact. but tell me what the payoff is for Alex Jones handlers? hes been spreading the same type of info and news for over a decade at least. how many people has he woken up in that time? the (insert agency here) aint getting its moneys worth. as far as Loose Change goes, im not gonna lie, the very fact that its the biggest name in 9/11 truth(for better or worse) has me plenty worried about whats going to happen with it. not to mention the Cuban connection. and RT, seriously, DRG in a speedo? you had to do that? and for the record i usually agree with your "nagging feelings" on this site, haha.

thanks, RT

let the record show, i agree with you. not that i'm building silly alliances to highjack (no pun intended) threads.
as public enemy used to say, "don't believe the hype!"
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil 89 (1886).

public enemy also said

fight the powers that be

that means essentially "subvert the dominant paradigm"

no better way to avoid being taken for a chump. if you doubt EVERYTHING, you'll only be wrong once. if you trust, you'll be wrong many times.

and wolf, it figures you'd agree, since I was lurkin on your own forum at anti-neocons for some validation before "coming out"as a loose change playa hata....


Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force