Reaching Authoritarian Personality Types with 9/11 Truth

9/11Blogger poster no_body is working to figure out how to reach authoritarian personality types with 9/11 truth. Below are his initial conclusions. No_body posted some general scholarly research in this area here, but that research did not specifically address how to reach these types of folks. So I asked him if he could write something summarizing how to reach authoritarian types with 9/11 truth, and this is his response.

Debating the Debunkers and The Authoritarian Personality

In my experience of blogging for 911 truth and any other truth you'd
care to mention. I have on many occasions met TAP (The Authoritarian

Both from the left, who use someone like Noam Chomsky as their
authority or on the right who use NIST, Popular Mechanics or Bill

It should be pointed out that the roots of this personality type can
be very deep, extending back to adolescence - peer group pressure and
conformity, or even to childhood - a dominating father for example.
Further programming takes place say in a military boot camp or in any
form of hierarchical power structure such as the work place.
(Engineers seem particularly prone)

TAP doesn't just mean "bossy types" TAP personalities are in the main
conformists i.e. they know their place and are involved in a life
that revolves around maintaining or improving their position in a
hierarchy. If they can be "top of the pile, king of the heap" then
they will happily occupy that position, but will equally happily
"follow the leader". Whoever that might be.

It would appear that transcendence of the self does not occur and
their motivation is to bolster the self. In other, words debunking
your arguments for 911 truth makes them feel good!

Whether their authority figures are eminent engineers or celebrities
they rely on these authority figures to formulate their own world
view, very often they don't have the necessary acumen or intellectual
skills to form their own judgments, though they often claim to be an
expert themselves, they rely heavily on their authority figures or

TAP humans show no introspection if you can get them to do some
introspection then it is possible for them to realise why they do
what they do, but don't hold your breath. One way of doing this is to
point out that they have TAP.
Another way is to spot the lies and distortions they use. If you
catch them lying in a debate about the truth.....;-)

Here's one example of a foray into enemy territory in the info war.
It involved one of the truthers favorite lines.

"Never in history has a steel framed building......"
The debunker countered with two examples of steel framed buildings
that collapsed due to fire. They were basically sheds. The truther
made the mistake of using "buildings" and not skyscrapers. The
debunker made the mistake of describing one of the fires as a "small
electrical fire that lasted 30 mins" when in-fact the fire lasted
over seven hours and there were many other contributing factors to
the collapse. This was a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts to
demonstrate how easy it is for fire to destroy steel framed buildings
i.e. a lie.

It is estimated that 23% of the population have an authoritarian

Recognising TAP doesn't mean there are easy ways to win the argument
they won't respond to reason and evidence in the same way as you or I

So no magic bullet I'm afraid. But knowing what you are dealing with
will help you in how you formulate your arguments, will win over the
less programmed non psychopathic types and help stop you from
becoming frustrated and end up just resorting to name calling.

Here are some ideas.

First undermine their authority figures (which isn't too difficult)
e.g. the administration - point to the EPA having to lie about the
air quality at ground zero. Use any examples of experts lying to
cover up you can think of.

Use the video of John Gross lying about the molten metal at ground zero.
followed by the first responders story of boots melting.

This combination works at a very powerful level.

If the Debunker you are debating shows no empathy for the First
Responder then you are probably dealing with a psychopath who also
has TAP You probably have no chance of winning an argument using
evidence and reason alone if this is the case.

the NIST report is full of "pathological science"

For example NIST claim that there was a slow creep in the towers
before they collapse. They support this claim with a non-time stamped
photo and the testimony of a guy in a helicopter. Creep can be
directly measured by measuring from a known point on the building to
the roof in the last frame of video before the collapse begins. This
is an empirical measurement i.e. Scientific truth - this kind of
science is more authoritative than the pathological science of NIST.
David Ray Griffin said in an recent interview with Jack Blood - "It's
time to get Empirical"

Kevin Ryan has written some very good articles pointing out the
pathological nature of the science carried out by NIST.

and (if you can afford it) David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 911

We have gathered some data from the Topix news site that JJJames (who
is a 911 Blogger posted an article) "3000 Died Bush Lied" We met a
very authoritarian Debunker Tomk52 who also showed signs of being
psychopathic. We are analysing the data to see how the Debunkers
formulate their arguments and the methods they use such as ad-hominem
attacks etc. Research is continuing and we'll be writing more on this

If you've read the background on TAP on Wikipedia

and think you have encountered TAP in your Blogging experience. We'd
appreciate it if you could notify us of the url where you encountered
this personality type. So we can collect further data.

Leave a comment to this post-
"Debating the Debunkers and The Authoritarian Personality"
on this blog
(which has a reading list for further research)

Great Help

This was an excellent overview, simple enough to apply immediately. Thanks

Wanna understand this personality better?


EGO is in here a main factor for TAP personalities ..

What is sad . . .

is finding this authoritarian personality at DailyKos, a so-called "progressive" blog.

Here is the acrimonious end of a long debate I had the other day with a couple of people about the "collapse" of the twin towers.

Great article on the authoritarian personality

I just came across this excellent article about the authoritarian personality, and its relevance to the current political climate in the U.S. This is an excellent introduction to the subject:

'The Authoritarian Personality' Revisited
The Chronicle of Higher Education

For those who may have missed it.

Totally agree

I was debating a few guys over here:

Mainly SF.CB who totally fits the description of a TAP, and my pitfalls:

1. I described the upper block to be similar to wood in density, because it would be the average of 90% air and 10 % steel. He kept arguing "but steel does not float!" and had no clue what average density is.

2. Now I was trying to prove that the WTC towers could withstand their own weight many times over, based on quotes from skilling, but sadly none state that fact directly.
The only statement I have is from Jim Hoffman at

"Steel structures like bridges and buildings are typically designed to withstand five times anticipated static loads and 3 times anticipated dynamic loads. "

He has been arguing for pretty much the past 2 days that WTC cannot sustain many times its own weight. So if I could find a similer statement to that of Jim hoffman, his argument would be totally destroyed.

Any one has any independent sources for that statement that steel buildings are designed to withstand 5 times static load and 3 times dynamic load?

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give me an "A", give me a "D"...

when 911 truthers start getting into adorno you know something exciting is just on the horizon. ha ha. this is great stuff!

A Couple of TAP Sites

My favorite TAP site is screwloosechange. They are a great bunch of TAP fellows. You have also offered great points also on how their feeble mind works.

Another one would be JREF forum. That is a site littered with pseudo intellectuals, anyonmous engineers, and wanna be structural engineers. Enjoy the true TAP found at those debunk sites.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

A Couple of TAP Sites

My favorite TAP site is screwloosechange. They are a great bunch of TAP fellows. You have also offered great points also on how their feeble mind works.

Another one would be JREF forum. That is a site littered with pseudo intellectuals, anyonmous engineers, and wanna be structural engineers. Enjoy the true TAP found at those debunk sites.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

JREF is the worst of the

JREF is the worst of the worst.However I don't think the goal of debating TAP's is to convince them but rather to win over the audience.One way of debating the molten metal arguement is this: Most debunking sites concentrate on proving the molten metal observed in the wreckage & the video tape of WTC 2 try to prove that the molten material was aluminium or something other than iron/steel.This actually works to our advantage.Once they try to prove that that molten material was something other than iron/steel they have de facto admitted that there was a substantial quantity of molten material present.Let them rave have on about color etc. & then say,"well.what was it? You claim a though investigation has been done & that another isn't needed,the site has been cleaned up & the cooled,hardened,slag of whatever that molten material was has been removed from the site, what was it?why are we still debating it's compositon six years on?"They wont have an answer.Then point out that these 'conspiracy theories' have been around since day one & suggest that if that material had been anything as benign as aluminium that they would have paraded that colded,hardened slag ingot out for all the world to see.Suggest the fact that this wasn't done suggests it wasn't something as begin as aluminum slag.


Is for the Truth movement to start churning simulations of the collapse of the Twin towers and Building 7. It needs to be open source, and we have to show the world why the collapse should not have looked the way it did on 9/11 had it been a natural (fire+damage) cause.

Physics papers are not cutting it anymore, Gordon Ross on one hand and Greeing on the other hand, and both are trying to nit pick one other's work, although I think Gordon Ross has the edge.

Any one has any idea about any projects attempting to simulate the collapses? I mean it should not be hard with all the vast research information we have around and the newly released blueprints.


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scale model

instead of computer simulations, build a 1:100 scale model (one story tall). hit it with scale projectiles one or more times. light it up and drop buckets of kerosene on it for a few hours. then cut off the top third of it and lift it up another fifty feet and drop it straight down onto the remaining structure. see if you can initiate a "progressive collapse". unless you want the burnt out carcass standing there for hundreds of years, someone's gonna have to get busy with welding torches and a wrecking ball...

How about both

Although a scale model is still probably going to cost far more than a computer simulation. And with Computer simulations, you have a chance to repeat the tests infinitly, while models are going to be very limited number of trials.


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JREF TAP the Audience

I agree you are often appealing to an "audience" , but the audience is also made up of humans with TAP

I think the debunkers are at least partially aware of this and so formulate their arguments to appeal to this audience.

Because they rely so heavily on experts and NIST and the experts and NIST have so obviously had to distort and lie, then showing how those experts distort, ignore evidence, and lie will help to psychologically realign humans with TAP away from their authorities (NIST) and towards the authority of those seeking the truth.