Dave Emory's Disinfo Attack on Steven E. Jones

May 12, 2007 - Dave Emory has issued a correction to his broadcast, but the blog entry in which the correction is made is a further smear piece, expanding on the other, weaker points made by Emory, and reinforced by the person who maintains the blog. Correction noted Emory, now get to work on the last decade's worth of corrections. -r.

I used to listen to Dave Emory at length. I found his theory that an "underground Reich" is at work causing mischief, murder and mayhem all over the world fascinating. He bolsters his theory with an impressive backlog of archived radio programs that have been broadcast on station WFMU.

One of the cornerstones of Emory's theory is a book by Paul Manning, "Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile".

Much of the “For The Record” series deals with the Bormann Organization and the research done on that by the late Paul Manning ... The Third Reich has been able to survive—underground—in deadly, Mafia-like fashion ... His death at the end of the war having been effectively faked by Gestapo chief (and later security director for the Bormann group) SS General Heinrich Muller, Martin Bormann proceeded to lead the economic and political affairs of the Underground Reich and (in effect) the Federal Republic of Germany ... When Paul was finally able to get Lyle Stuart Inc. to publish the book, Lyle Stuart had both of his legs broken the week the book was published ... source

There is only one problem with this book. Martin Bormann is dead. D-E-D dead. He has been dead since May 2, 1945. This was proven once, when Bormann's skeletal remains were discovered in 1972. The remains were positively identified using the dental records of Bormann's (and Hitler's) personal dentist.

This proof wasn't good enough for folks claiming that the "remarkable and deadly Bormann Organization" was alive and kicking, so a mitochondrial DNA analysis was conducted, and the results published in the scientific journal, "The International Journal of Legal Medicine".

Contrary to statements of an eye-witness who reported that Martin Bormann, the second most powerful man in the Third Reich, died on 2 May 1945 in Berlin, rumours persisted over the years that he had escaped from Germany after World War II. In 1972, skeletal remains were found during construction work, and by investigating the teeth and the bones experts concluded that they were from Bormann. Nevertheless, new rumours arose and in order to end this speculation we were commissioned to identify the skeletal remains by mitochondrial DNA analysis. The comparison of the sequence of HV1 and HV2 from the skeletal remains and a living maternal relative of Martin Bormann revealed no differences and this sequence was not found in 1500 Caucasoid reference sequences. Based on this investigation, we support the hypothesis that the skeletal remains are those of Martin Bormann. source.

Maybe Emory should be calling it the "remarkable but bogus Bormann Organization".

"But," you may ask, "who broke Lyle Stuart's legs, then?" Well, maybe Lyle Stuart. I sent an email to Paul Krassner, a friend of Stuart's, asking about Stuart's "broken legs". He sent the email to Stuart's widow, who replied that she had "no information" about this incident. Krassner further advised me that, "Lyle would laugh at the notion that his leg was broken by anyone but himself--and he hated Nazis." Some wild speculation here, but maybe Stuart had a fall, and broke ONE leg, singular, and maybe Nazis didn't do it.

Further, it's likely that Manning was sent on a wild goose chase by former CIA head, Allen Dulles. Check out this quote from the hit-and-miss John Loftus;

Several decades after the war, investigative reporter Paul Manning, Edward R. Murrow's colleague, stumbled across the Thyssen interrogations in the US National Archives. Manning intended to write a book about Nazi money laundering. Manning's manuscript was a dagger at Allen Dulles' throat: his book specifically mentioned the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart by name, albeit in passing. Dulles volunteered to help the unsuspecting Manning with his manuscript, and sent him on a wild goose chase, searching for Martin Bormann in South America.

Without knowing that he had been deliberately sidetracked, Manning wrote a forward to his book personally thanking Allen Dulles for his "assurance that I was "on the right track, and should keep going.'" Dulles sent Manning and his manuscript off into the swamps of obscurity. The same "search for Martin Bormann"scam was also used to successfully discredit Ladislas Farago, another American journalist probing too far into the laundering of Nazi money. American investigators had to be sent anywhere but Holland. source

Loftus has been a guest on Emory's show on several occasions. Funny how they never talk about Manning's wild goose chase.

Anyhow, Emory has been attacking 9/11 skeptics off and on, ad hominem remarks, mostly, but last July I noticed a major up-tick in his vehemence toward the subject with an interview he conducted with Daniel Hopsicker:

Daniel Hopsicker: ...Rami El-Batrami’s name is on a plane that’s the sister to a plane that’s busted with 5.5 tons of cocaine. Rami El-Batrami works for Adnan Khashoggi. Rami El-Batrami with Adnan Khashoggi own a company called Genesis Intermedia. For which they were just charged with stock fraud last month. $120 million disappeared. Genesis Intermedia owned John Gray. I mean, owned John Gray. Didn’t just own his book, owned him. Owned his appearances, he had sold himself to them.

Dave Emory: John Gray, by the way, is someone who has cropped up in the New Age milieu, as the author of “Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus”. He also has been one of the financiers of the so-called 911 truth movement.

Hopsicker: And that’s the point. And that’s the point. And that’s the point. He’s the financier of the 9/11 cult movement, which, if you have a whacky idea that leads nowhere, they’ll give you all kinds of publicity...


...and Carol Brouillet walks around at a San Francisco 9/11 conference, which is the one and only one I ever went to, with her arm around John Gray...


...and the whole point of that conference was to pump up Mike Ruppert. Who was the main speaker, like, the two nights and one day I was there. And Mike Ruppert is the biggest charlatan I’ve ever come across. Mike Ruppert took all of the attention associated with questioning about 9/11 a couple years after the attack, and delivered nothing… a 600 page door-stop. Peak Oil! Peak Oil!

Carol Brouillet noticed my blog entry and spoke up to give her version of the events in the comments section below the entry.

Since these two discuss me, I think I need to put in my two cents.

One of the first political events that I ever organized, actually, was with Dave Emory, and Judi Bari and Wes Swearingen, author of FBI Secrets- An Agent’s Expose. Judi suggested that I invite Wes, whom she had only known by phone, and who used to be on the FBI “anti-terrorism squad in New York,” of all places.

I became a political activist, after seeing the film, JFK. So I have only been looking into things deeply since 1992, although I am currently running for Congress on an Impeachment, 9/11 Truth, Peace and Justice platform.

I did organize the first International Inquiry into 9/11 in March 2004 where Hopsicker was actually invited to speak and where John Gray turned up. I had no idea who John Gray was and simply met him there for the first time, as well as Nafeez Ahmed, Webster Tarpley, Nico Haupt, Nicholas Levis, William Douglas, Sander Hicks, Jerry Russell, Lyn Pentz, Les Jamieson, Kris Milligan, and a whole lot of other 9/11 Truth activists (Barrie Zwicker, Grey Brechin, Ian Woods, Ralph Schoenmann, Mya Shone, Sue Supriano, Bonnie Faulkner) for the first time. The idea wasn’t to showcase Michael Ruppert, in fact I asked Paul Thompson to speak on the failure of the government to intercept the planes on 9/11, but he wanted to speak on Pakistan’s role in 9/11 and Ruppert was happy to speak on the failure to intercept- as well as his main thesis.

I believe Hopsicker felt that anyone who wasn’t doing research specifically on the “alleged hijackers” was off on a wild goose chase.

I think it highly suspicious that anyone wastes their time attacking people in the 9/11 Truth Movement rather than those responsible for the attacks, the cover-up, the destruction of evidence, the Big Lies about the Bogus War on Terrorism which are being used to launch innumerable wars, construct a Global Police State, consolidate corporate power at the expense of people and democracy worldwide.

I don’t agree with any one activist on every point about 9/11- there is tremendous diversity within the movement, but 97% agree that 9/11 was an inside job, and that is the critical point. All efforts to put a stop to state sponsored terrorism and war should be supported.

Carol Brouillet

Emphasis mine.

Hopsicker brings up Adnan Khashoggi. Well, Peter Dale Scott has done more documentable, scholarly work tying in Khashoggi to 9/11 elements than Hopsicker and Emory combined, in this single article. Oh, and I'll have to check with everybody else, but I'm going on 6 years, 8 months and change without a single paycheck from the Adnan Khashoggi 9/11 Truth fund. What am I doing wrong? How much sweet Khashoggi coin have ya'll scooped?

But beyond blogging it, I let it pass. I assumed that he would move on to other topics, like admitting that he's been wrong for years and years about Martin Bormann.

I was wrong. On the May 1, 2007 broadcast of "For the Record" (program #592) he launched an attack on Steven E. Jones that is entirely characteristic of his sloppy research, ad hominem potshots, and general vitriol. I'll attach as much of the program as transcript that I could stomach writing below. In the meantime, you can listen to the Real Audio archive stream of his show here;

May 1, 2007: FTR #592: Update on 9/11 and Related Topics PLUS FTR #593: "Three Days of the Falkon"

Real Audio

MP3 stream

In which, Emory says that "many of the volunteers who helped out at the World Trade Center following September 11th, were actually experts in controlled demolition, and a number of them have put together websites debunking the frankly-- not just wrong, not just impossible, frankly, evil contention that this was a controlled demolition."

They have? Evil? Jeez.

But here's the classic. Emory states that the primary reason that Jones' research must be rejected, is that STEVEN E. JONES IS WRITING A BOOK ATTACKING DARWIN!


Dave Emory, is conflating creationist "Stephen E. Jones" with former BYU professor, "Steven E. Jones". I would extend Emory the possibility that he just got "mixed up" between the two, but somehow he has been able to flog the animated corpse of Martin Bormann as proof of the "underground Reich" for going on a decade now. Plus, he summarizes an article by Steven E. Jones, "Was There Death Before Adam?", in which the first line is, "In this essay, Elder Jones shows how death before Adam makes sense from a scriptural sense. He is not necessarily saying that evolution of man is true or untrue."

Wow. That sure doesn't sound like a hardcore "creationist" to me. It sounds like a moderate religious point of view. How did Emory miss that? It was right in front of him.

And he doesn't just bring it up once. Steven E. Jones, creationist, writing a book about Darwin, is the cornerstone of his character assassination.

From his broadcast;

"Steven E. Jones again is the "scientific expert" behind the controlled demolition contention. Steven E. Jones is writing a book, the outline is online, attacking Darwin. Basically, Steven E. Jones is a creationist, and is writing a book the outline of which I will have online as part of the description of this broadcast. Steven E. Jones is a creationist, albeit an intellectual creationist, he's writing a book attacking Darwin, so there's your scientific expert."


"...what Steven E. Jones "scientific expert" writing a book attacking Darwin maintains..."


"And for those riding in behind the scientific expertise, such as it is, of Steven E. Jones, well, all I can say is... check yourselves, 'cause this is a guy writing a book, attacking Darwin."


"We’ve got Steven E. Jones writing a book attacking Darwin, and yet, being help up as the scientific expert du jour of the controlled demolition adequates (sic) and his notion that he found traces of thermite on a welded steel beam reminds..."

Alex Constantine documented Emory's previous attacks on John Judge and others here.

In short, Emory employs the very tactics that he accuses the 9/11 skeptics of using; presenting misinformation & disinformation as impermeable Truth.

WFMU homepage;


Partial transcript, For the Record #592;

Hello my name is Dave Emory and this is "For the Record" program #592, titled "Update on September 11th and Related Topics". This is being recorded on April 8th of the year 2007.

Well today is Easter Sunday, of 2007 and I thought in keeping with not exactly the spirit of the holiday, but the theme of the holiday, of course Easter is the day when Christians observe what they believe to be the resurrection of Jesus following his crucifixion, I should perhaps preface what I'm about to say and do with the following, I don't subscribe to the letter of any religion, I am not into organized religion. As far as I'm concerned, God is in the realm of religion and religion is in the realm of politics. I actually am a non-denominational believer, there's definitely more than just a bunch of dumb molecules bumping into one another but my non-denominational faith is based on my readings of theoretical physics and some of my studies of Buddhism and other things and I definitely don't think any of the world's major religions has is absolutely right, but all of them or just about all of them have parts of it right and the whole idea is to live a righteous life, you don't hurt people, you don't kill them, you don't steal from them, you don't lie to them, that's a pretty good prescription for living. But I don't ascribe to the beliefs of any organized religion, but I'm convinced that there's something, and I call it the force -- laugh if you will, but it's the only reason I do what I do, I believe in the law of Karma, and I think frankly that we are headed to a time of unparalleled darkness, and if you think that's conjecture, stick around, ladies and gentlemen.

I should perhaps stress that I don't want to offend anybody's religious beliefs, but this is a political program, and it deals with political analysis, and in that context we're gonna begin our discussion of September 11th and related topics by taking a look at the intellectual horizons of one Steven E. Jones, up until recently a professor of physics at Brigham Young University, a Mormon University in Utah. Steven Jones has emerged as the number one "expert" on the, frankly, not just incorrect but physically impossible contention that the Twin Towers and other buildings at the World Trade Center were brought down by a controlled demolition.

Leaving aside the particulars of a controlled demolition, and we'll be dealing with that at a future time, and in fact as part of the written description to this broadcast, I'm going to include a bunch of URLs in which this whole issue is discussed at length and in expert detail-- by the way, many of the first res-- many of the volunteers who helped out at the World Trade Center following September 11th, were actually experts in controlled demolition, and a number of them have put together websites debunking the frankly-- not just wrong, not just impossible, frankly, evil contention that this was a controlled demolition.

I exclude from inclusion in the realm of evil those naïves who have been looking at doctored websites on the internet. And people should be aware of what can be done with pictures; an awful lot. But there weren't no controlled demolition, a controlled demolition of such buildings under the circumstances would be physically impossible. As far as I know, a controlled demolition of a building the size of the Twin Towers is impossible, and indeed there was a demolition of a building at the World Trade Center following September 11th, that was WTC3, which had been damaged, but it was too tall for a controlled demolition. And it was a lot shorter than either of the Twin Towers. We'll go into this at some length at a future time. There will be a number of URLs where people can examine the scientific dissection of this argument.

But one of the things we should note is that Steven E. Jones a professor of physics up until recently at Brigham Young University, has emerged as the "scientific expert" du jour, so to speak, for the controlled demolition disinformation. I would note that one of the early people hyping controlled demolition was a guy named Jim Hoffman, who's a software engineer, when people first began floating this BS to me, I said, "You know I think you're gonna find that a lot of these people are actually working for elements of the intelligence community". Jim Hoffman, as it turns out, is employed, or was employed when he was hyping the controlled demolitions stuff in the early part of this decade by a company that's financed by Naval intelligence and the National Security Agency. Surprise, surprise.

Steven E. Jones is not only an elder of the Mormon Church, he was until recently a big supporter of George Bush, by his own contention. Steven E. Jones, his only scientific credit, such as it is, was to coin the term Cold Fusion, which is a bloody poor scientific credit, but that was the high point of his professional career, as far as I can tell.

Steven E. Jones again is the "scientific expert" behind the controlled demolition contention. Steven E. Jones is writing a book, the outline is online, attacking Darwin. Basically, Steven E. Jones is a creationist, and is writing a book the outline of which I will have online as part of the description of this broadcast. Steven E. Jones is a creationist, albeit an intellectual creationist, he's writing a book attacking Darwin, so there's your scientific expert.

And among the other things that he has penned is an essay that I have to figure out, I'm gonna go over it a little more carefully, it’s called, "Was There Death Before Adam?" In which Elder Jones... tackles the issue which is very troublesome to biblical literalists, "Was There Death Before Adam?" Because fossil evidence seems to suggest that there were things that lived and died, but according to the scriptures, Adam and his fall brought death into the world, and was redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ.

In the "For the Record" supplemental section... we have this essay... in which Steven Jones seems to suggest yes, scriptures suggest real death, the death of the spirit came with Adam, but there was physical death before then, sort of equivocal. But what isn't is an essay called "Behold My Hands" that's really the subtitle of an essay called "The Golden Era of Mesoamerica" and what Steven E. Jones "scientific expert" writing a book attacking Darwin maintains here is that he uses pre-Columbian South American iconography and statuary to attempt to prove that after his resurrection, Jesus did indeed visit the Native Americans, as he is said to have done in the Book of Mormon. By the way the Book of Mormon was discovered in 1830, it was supposedly written in hieroglyphics of sorts which Joseph Smith was able to decipher with the aid of the angel Moroni. Now the fact that hieroglyphics weren't deciphered until the Rosetta Stone was discovered, which it wasn't in 1830, and sure as bloody hell not by Joseph Smith creates problems, but not apparently for Steven Jones, again, I don't think any literalist, fundamentalist religion stands up too well under rigorous scientific scrutiny, but we're in the realm of science and investigation, and what Steven E. Jones "scientific expert" du jour for the controlled demolition freaks is saying here... well, in keeping with Easter Sunday let's read a little bit of The Golden Era of Mesoamerica...

(Let's not. You can view Jones' article here. Accompanying pictures no longer available. -r.)

...again, I'm not poking fun at anyone's religious beliefs per se, but I am poking fun at all fundamentalist literalists. And for those riding in behind the scientific expertise, such as it is, of Steven E. Jones, well, all I can say is... check yourselves, 'cause this is a guy writing a book, attacking Darwin. The controlled demolition contentions vary, Jones has also been talking about how thermite was used to bring down the World Trade Center, and even though the wreckage of the World Trade Center was shipped to China, he got a hold of some of it and he found traces of thermite, he says, well, thermite folks, first of all it does not produce long-lasting heat, as he claims, it produces relatively short-lived high heat, thermite is used for, (hold on to your hats, controlled demolition freaks), welding.

Now imagine, imagine finding traces of thermite on steel beams that have been welded. Amazing, huh? The actual primary application now of thermite is for welding rail tracks, I would note that right under the World Trade Center that would have got mixed in with the wreckage were the tracks from a subway station, but uh, it's pretty interesting watching the controlled demolition train leave the station, so to speak, uh, no engineer at that train, folks. We’ve got Steven E. Jones writing a book attacking Darwin, and yet, being help up as the scientific expert du jour of the controlled demolition adequates (sic) and his notion that he found traces of thermite on a welded steel beam reminds me of a ... Firesign Theater ... comedy albums had a routine which centered around the building of a time machine. At one point, one character who has supposedly traveled back in time comes back and he says "It works, it works! Nancy, see I traveled back to ancient Greece, I have proof, look at this grape".

And that's what I think about the thermite contention.

And for those of you who want to ride on the scientific expertise of Steven E. Jones, he's writing a book attacking Darwin, and he claims that after his resurrection, Jesus visited the Native Americans, and that's what all these statues prove.

Well again, I'm not into fundamentalist religion but there's a bit of an Easter touch I guess for those of you who have been deceived by Steven E. Jones. So, if the controlled demolition train is leaving the station with you on it, be aware that it's Steven E. Jones and not Casey Jones at the throttle.

And we've got Alex Jones, another space cadet, who has also assumed a leading position to a certain extent in the so-called 9/11 Truth movement, not that there is not a very, very, large conspiratorial complex involved with September 11th, there sure as hell was, but it ain't the controlled demolition-cruise missile hit the Pentagon stuff, and with Steven E. Jones and Alex Jones driving that train, I guess we can consider the 9/11 Truth movement to be Jonestown under the circumstances...

Program continues.

John Gray?

I don't even know who he is. Hopsicker has been a movement hater for a while now hasn't he?

It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up

i too, found Emory

i too, found Emory fascinating for awhile. he's essentially a 'blowback' theorist. but these attacks are absurd. more sad than absurd.

He's at it again in this show ...

Discusses historical revisionism, in particular 'Holocaust Denial' and the '911 Truth movement' ...

February 20, 2007: FTR #584 "Rewriting History" | Listen

I would like to have those many hours back.

I have spent too much time listening to Emory drone on about this milieu and that milieu... I like Mae Brussell, who is supposed to have been his mentor, but I stopped listening to him when he starting mocking the idea that controlled demolition was seen on 9/11. In my opinion, cd is so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it is either unable to think independently, or is dishonest. Emory seems able to think for himself, so I conclude that his goal is deception.

the question is, whos theory

the question is, whos theory is best supported by the evidence?
was thermite really used to "weld" the wtc together? i doubt it.

the 11+ features of controlled demolition are observed in the collapse of wtc 7. there is no credible theory coming from official sources regarding wtc 7. they refuse to show it, they refuse to talk about, and the continually preach about the controlled demolition hypothesis being factually devoid.

this all reminds me of something someone was saying in another blog:

we have entered the second stage. this means we edge ever closer to the truth being accepted as self-evident. efforts must be doubled, minds must be opened, the truth must come to light.

and it will.

Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month

I like the way Barrie Zwicker described it to me

he said, the official conspiracy theory about what happened on 9/11 hangs by only the very thinnest of threads, and that under any amount of rational scrutiny and analysis, it snaps, both individually and inevitably, on a mass collective scale, and therefore at some stage, because of our movement, it can't NOT break, as soon as enough people have access to the information. There's continuance with our movement... and human curiosity, and the need to know the truth, drives it.

It's inevitable, that we will win the info war, the psych war.

The truth has a center of gravity all its own.

"There is nothing now hidden, which will not be made known, and brought to light."
On the 11th day, of every month.

You made me bring out the

You made me bring out the poetry....

truth can
be used as
a foundation for
a mountain of lies,
and if we dig down deep
enough in the mountain of lies,
and bring out that truth, to set it
on top of the mountain of lies; the entire
mountain of lies will crumble under the weight of
that one truth, and there is nothing more devastating to a
structure of lies than the revelation of the truth upon which
the structure of lies was built, because the shock waves of
the revelation of the truth reverberate, and continue to
reverberate throughout the Earth for generations to
follow, awakening even those
people who had no
desire to be
to the

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

Sick to death...

Of bullshit ad hominem attacks. Are people really falling for this stuff? Even if SteVen E. Jones WAS writing a book about creationism, it wouldn't mean his physics is false. When I first heard that Jones was a Mormon (or whatever) I started to want to back off him a little, but then I listened further. I haven't heard him utter one dishonest word, or even venture as far as fingering a perpetrator for 9/11. All he does is call for investigation and re-institution of the Constitution. Anyway.... WHY IS JONES STILL BASICALLY GOING-IT-ALONE???? Scientists, SPEAK THE FUCK UP!!! PUBLICLY!!

Don't these disinfo idiots realize what the fruits of their efforts will be?

Ok, I'm proposing some action for truthers here. This is our homework assignment for the next two or three weeks...

Start disseminating this information as widely as possible:





It is important that people research this information too, and use it to filter any new information we are fed. If we start educating people about these techniques, they will be less susceptible to them.
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

What a wanker.

Good job Reprehensor. Let's expose these shills for what they are.

Show "Why does Steven Jones help prove parts of official story?" by Killtown

Fuck off idiot.

I clocked myself. I only wasted 10 seconds responding to your disinfo.

"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Show "I noticed you didn't try to answer my question" by Killtown

I am a member of STJ911

And I support the content of the website, including the links you mentioned.

As for st911.org... they are so "good" at "proving the official story false" they can't even disprove *any* of the alternate theories.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Show "That's great but..." by Killtown

Ok, to answer your question...

... for the benefit of our readers here who may or may not appreciate your style, Killtown:

'Proving' with any exactitude in detail to actually finger The Conspiracy is neither practical, necessary, nor a reasonable or rational pursuit. What we can do, and what is quite a bit more productive in the long run, is to examine The Story that Officials and their media told... and changed... and tell anew.

What we can say now with far more certainty, is that these Officials lie through their teeth with a smile, while ordering abominable war based upon those same lies.

It stands to reason, bolstered by the accumulated histories and knowledge of what humans are capable of repeatedly is, that the same people who would innitiate and sustain such lies at tremendous cost are also the most likely suspects to have perpetrated the grand event in the first place.

They (starting with Presidents Bush and Cheney) should be in custody and interrogated strongly WITHOUT further violating our collective human dignity. It is only the people who destroyed the evidence and manipulated mass perception who will most likely be able to reveal the details of The Conspiracy. We have no need to speculate any further, the investigative tool of theories have served us well in narrowing down the list of probable suspects to date.

Now, it is more likely the court of public opinion that will hear and judge this case, as the suspect Officials seem to have also hijacked the Official Courts as well. No problem, we the people have unlimited and ultimate power to reject, restore or even reinvent that which better reflects genuine humanity.

That's easy. If they can't

That's easy.

If they can't PROVE an "official account", that is just as good as debunking one.

It's like saying to people, "Listen, we tried to make sense of the gov't version, and this is the work to show you that we tried, but we have not been successful."

Besides, you can't play 1 side. You want the truth, not a preconceived idea of what you think the truth is. That's not how it works.

My first experiences in 2003 w/ this stuff was trying to DISPROVE everything "anti-official story".

I failed miserably.

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

Show "OoooooK" by Killtown

It's the same reason you try

It's the same reason you try to DISPROVE the official story.

It really is. But the bias overshadows that for some reason.

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

Show "So if a newbie comes across those two pages..." by Killtown

Well I'd a hope a "newbie"

Well I'd a hope a "newbie" would look into other information than the speculation of "what hit the pentagon" and "did a plane crash in PA?"

Because there is MUCH MORE to 9/11 Truth than these two items, regardless of any of our preferences.

911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info

And still...

failed to answer my question.


Focus on the botched crash scene at Shanksville.

The Flight 93 link you

The Flight 93 link you posted links to http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html which states:

"This analysis of the debris distribution suggests not only that the Flight 93 was shot down, but that it might have been flying west at the time it was shot down."

Since when is promoting the possibility of Flight 93 being shot down "trying to prove parts of the official story?"

Show "And what if one of the sheep who reads it" by Killtown

I'm not in a position to

I'm not in a position to speak for hypothetical "sheep" so I'm not sure I can answer that.

That they need to be more thorough and stop being sheep?

Show "If a newbie comes across those pages" by Killtown

Again... hypothetically....

Again... hypothetically.... because I can't speak for the "hope of others thinking."

Anyone who would be looking at ONLY one site or one page and expect to come to any kind of understanding of such complex issues has larger issues to deal with.

And if they don't know how to click a hyper link than they are a) blind or b) not very interested in 9/11 research in the first place.

Show "With a lot of people, you have to hook them fast" by Killtown


When are you going to get a real job?

Show "It's getting harder to tell the difference" by Killtown

Childish argument

Jones is methodical, credible and thorough. He meticulously presents as much evidence as he can to get to the truth.

Your counterargument that he is proving "parts of the official story" is not really an argument at all.

As far as the term "skeptic" is concerned, that would be me. That would be anyone who isn't satisfied with the government's story. Skepticism is what we need more of, not less. Jones is obviously a skeptic, that's why he has put so much effort into discrediting untenable theories and proving them false.

Your "sworn enemies" shtick is anti-science. The truth has no concern for who is telling it. Jones is pursuing the facts. Are you?

70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog

johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.

Show "Well if the "facts" point to the official story..." by Killtown

"Why bother?"

You're pushing some sludge there, KT.

I'm not so sure your concern is actually for truthfulness.

Dr. Jones has done more to advance our understanding of 9/11 than 100 Killtowns. How about some respect for the man's valid contributions?

Your entire approach is juvenile and ignorant. Either present valid arguments and supporting evidence ... or fuck off.

70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog

johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.

"Your entire approach is juvenile and ignorant...fuck off"

Did anybody else find that funny?


Focus on the botched crash scene at Shanksville.

Closet Zionist?

I've never heard Emory utter a single criticism of Israel in many years of listening.

He always pushes the 'evil Muslims did it', and 'they are the greatest threat' line. He loves the term "Islamofascist" and was one fo the first to use it (maybe even before 9/11).

He has never acknowledged the legitimate grievances of any Muslims.

His goal is to actually prove the existence of "Islamo/Fascist" connections. This is pretty much indistinguishable from the neocon/Zionist position.

And I'm afraid that controlled demolition leads directly back to Urban Moving Systems and Mossad "demoltion experts" detained on and around 9/11.

That's the bottom line. The unthinkable "Jews did it" line cannot be uttered, cannot be thought -- and happens to be the most likely scenario for controlled demolition.

Dr. Steven Jones IS credible, and his ideas are not easily challenged, period. They have to resort to other means of challenging him. Fetzer destroyed the "Scholars" group and ruined its reputation. Emory and others pretend that Jones is a fake scientist.

If Jones wasn't on to something very damaging, they wouldn't bother. They wouldn't expose themselves. They wouldn't put their own reputations on the line.

70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog

johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.

This isn't "news".

And I never meant to post it on the front page, in case anyone was wondering why it was moved to the blogs section.

i don't trust dave emory at all

Why don't you interview Alex Constantine?

My hero is Alex Constantine, a brilliant 9/11 investigator and an internationally recognized expert on mind control.

His work is conspicuous in its absence, here.

After all he's endured to bring the truth to the public, he deserves to be presented at length.

Check out what has been done to him at: www.alexconstantine.com

Drinking with Dave...

If you take a drink every time Emory says "milieu", you will be so drunk after 15 minutes you won't care what the hell he's babbling about.

Right on!

Hey, Reprehensor! Please write more about Alex Constantine. He's the BEST 9/11 researcher.

Check out-- www.alexconstantine.com


I've been listening to Dave Emory for a couple of months now, and find him very interesting. As a matter of fact, I just bought Dr. Mary's Monkey, which I find fascinating, and I recorded the middle section of the History Channel piece that aired only once, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, the part about Judyth Vary Baker's affair with Lee Harvey Oswald. A great new sidelight.

But the Islamo-Fascist did hit me very weird. I've spent hours in blogs trying to convince people that Fascism is entirely the creation of Industrialists and Bankers (altogether unsuited for mullahs to manage) as it seems in all the Fascism books I've been collecting since about February, when I read the gawdawful whitewash of Allen Dulles on Wikipedia, which I intend to replace sometime this summer. (I have two weeks off in August, and hope to get 90% of it out of the way then).

But listening to D.E.s treatment gave me more to think about — the collaboration of the Arabs and the Persians (changing the name to Iran in admiration of Hitler) with the Reich is one area where maybe I could give him the benefit of the doubt, that Fascism could be associated with Islamic Fundamentalism, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, home team of al-Zawahiri; certainly Kemal was a Fascist. But then he was a secularist. Italian Fascism was fully integrated with Catholicism, &c., &c.

But by any lights I've got, it's a stretch. It's a square peg in a hole that doesn't want to accept that moniker.

Glad to see some discussion of this topic.

— e sono tanto semplice, li uomini ...