This Is Not The Controlled Demolition Movement
Yesterday, the Associated Press reported on some questions that ex-CIA case officer Robert Baer has about 9/11. Putting aside his attempt at linking Iran to 9/11, the one thing that stood out to me in that article was how AP described the "conspiracy theorists" (the 9/11 Truth Movement) as a group of people that "think the U.S. government destroyed the World Trade Center." Is that what we're known for? Is that what we're all about?
I THINK NOT.
However, with all of the attention Controlled Demolition gets within this movement, I can understand why someone might think that. Not the media. Lord knows they've helped to create that appearance with their hit pieces that focus solely on whether or not a missile hit the Pentagon, and whether or not the WTC was brought down by Controlled Demolition. It's easier for the media to deal with us if we're only about one or two issues.
There are OTHER aspects to 9/11 Truth that don't involve "science," and it's time they start getting AS MUCH attention, if not more.
Today, most of our signs say, "WTC7," "9/11 Was An Inside Job," "9/11 Was A Black Op," and "USA Did 9/11." Signs in the movement used to say, "Support The 9/11 Families," and "Call For A New Investigation." Those points are just as valid today, as they were 4-5 years ago.
When most people get on the television, the first thing they do is talk about Controlled Demolition. When most people are interviewed on the radio, the first thing they do is talk about Controlled Demolition.
We can not allow the media or anyone else for that matter help create the image that all we're about is how we "think the U.S. government destroyed the World Trade Center."
In the last year, we've seen family members declare the 9/11 Commission "derelict in its' duties", and question the "entire veracity" of the 9/11 Report. We've seen family members call for an entirely new investigation into the 9/11 attacks. We've seen a documentary released endorsed by the family members that calls into question the entire 9/11 Report. We've seen a petition released by the family members calling for the declassification of pertinent 9/11 documentation. We've seen family members support the 9/11 Truth Movement by appearing at a recent conference in Arizona. Recently, family members filed a petition with NIST, and we learned that new family members, John and Bev Titus, spoke out in support of the truth.
When Fahrenheit 9/11 was released, those of us in the movement would stand outside of movie theaters and chant, "There's More To The Story." Some of us even got angry with Michael Moore because his movie only told half-truths.
If this movement continues to make Controlled Demolition its' focal point, then we are no better than Michael Moore.
9/11 Truth is about absolute accountability, and absolute truth regarding the attacks of 9/11. Each question we have, each piece of evidence we find, are all a part of acheiving those goals.
- Jon Gold's blog
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Amen Jon
I think one of the glaring anomalies of that day, which isn't nearly as much discussed among 9/11 truth circles is the inexplicable lack of standard protocols being followed by the FAA, Pentagon, Secret Service (at the school). etc.
Perhaps a diagram should be drawn, sort of a 9/11 perp "family tree" that connects the dots between the procedures that were not followed on 9/11. Someone with artistic ability should get on this.
Good point.
Your post got me thinking. I do usually use controlled demoltion when I talk to people, because it is the most concrete evidence (and very scientifically sound) - but I try to throw in the war games, and Norman Mineta as well to illuminate some of the circumstantial evidence.
It's just such a complicated topic. We as a movement should work on a concise, yet all encompassing way to engage the public with all the key areas - just enough to get them hooked.
It certainly isn't easy. The more we get together and talk about it, the more we can learn from each other. That is, as long as we are willing to listen.
Jesse
Part of the enemies plan.
I think part of why they made the demolitions so obvious, was so that it would make us "forget" about the family members. Serving as a huge wedge issue between us two groups.
When we can unite both groups and ideas - that is when we will win.
Thank you...
...for the reminder, Jon.
--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Definetly Man!
The physics is now in the buzz.....Time to make a buzz for the political points......Time to make a buzz about DRILLS!!! Things that don't need a physics expert to prove. Angel is Next and Drills are rock solid....Let's focus the attention...
http://www.thesonsofliberty.us
Angel is next is BS!!
Look at the Bush family history!! Look at Marvin and Securacom!! Look at Jeb and stolen elections!! Dubya WAS NOT some fucking pawn in this thing. YES there are others behind him calling the shots, but the whole Bush family is up to their necks in complicity!!
Why does Tarpley try to argue that Bush is innocent, and that peak oil is fake? Sounds like things an Exxon employee would say!!!
Sorry. I think Webster has done a lot of good, but trying to take ANY heat off Bush is ludicrous, and the peak oil debate DOES NOT need to be attached to 9/11 Truth.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Oh Please
It is an error to claim Angel is next is BS cause......it happened. It was confirmed by Dick cheney, New York Times, Richard Clarke, Condi Rice, Israeli Intelligence (who tried to pin it on iraq) and more.....Why not try and back up a statement instead of name calling. Some of these figures have even tried to back track once people started asking questions about a mole in Defense Dept. So no...it's not BS....Another funny thing is you trying to accuse Tarpley of pulling punches towards Bush. This is almost comical cause Tarpley is the guru of exposing the Bush Dynasty. Ever read any of his books?? Even Synthetic Terror has very serious criminal implications for Bush and 9/11. But come on....Bush's family has always been willing tools and schill's. There are not all intelligent, but are willing to take part in the larger continuity of criminality. Webster Tarpley is a historian and an expert on many subjects. When he references peak oil., he is discussing Dutch Royal Shell documents that are common knowledge(artificial scarcity etc.) Tarpley exposes oil company fraud regularly. Perhaps you have only been exposed to a small portion of his work. From what I have seen, Tarpley backs up his statements and is a true historian. You can't just call him BS.....Sounds like things a FAUX news employee would say.
Peace
http://www.thesonsofliberty.us
yep, these sources never lie
"It was confirmed by Dick cheney, New York Times, Richard Clarke, Condi Rice, Israeli Intelligence..."
they're all masters of mass deception, kdub. what's your point?
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
I think it's another indication
that a lot of stuff was being made up as they went along. I think "Angel is Next" may have been floated as a story to explain Bush's movements, but then scrapped. (I put Silverstein's "pull it" phone call into this category as well -- evidently it seemed like a good idea at the time to admit to demolishing 7, but later on, not so much.) I also think it may really have happened -- Tarpley's scenario hangs together quite well.
cool beans
i like you, casseia. you make a lot of sense. i'm still waiting for the feds to beat the shit out of me. where are you losers? can't you sense the grip is slipping? hurry up, time's a wasting......................
everybody...empty your pockets of all loose change...cameras ready...this is the final cut. we don't accept funds from assholes around here.
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
I just haven't read Tarpley's sources
for the quote. It would have to be authenticated, and even then, it wouldn't necessarily be significant. And it by no means absolves GWB or any of his kin from criminal guilt. There is plenty of evidence on these people, and I don't want to see the movement getting conned into letting ANY of the culprits off the hook.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
The statement needs to be authenticated.
And as already mentioned, those sources you quote are far from credible. My worry is that many people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that this ALLEGED statement somehow absolves GWB of guilt. That is ludicrous.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Newbies
should examine the work of Michael Ruppert, Jeff Wells ("Rigorous Intuition"), Mark Rabinovitz (www.oilempire.us), Paul Thompson, Peter Dale Scott, and Sander Hicks, for example, if they want to see Truthers who focus on deep politics rather than CD.
I agree with you.
There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence, to a large extent unknown to the public. This provides the context for understanding the whole 911 complex. But it is all relative.
The evidence for controlled demolitions of the WTC towers is absolute proof. Inescapable.
We are still in the process of breaking the 911 hoax to the public. So concentrating on the CD is still a wise approach. This makes Steven Jones/Richard Gage with teams very important for the success of the truth movement.
I agree with both Jon and
I agree with both Jon and pagan on this one. Both approaches are valuable, but the pulverization of the Towers was and is the central image of the whole day. Many people remember enough from science classes that they can fairly quickly grasp the impossibility of the top fifteen floors of the North Tower crashing through the lower 90 floors at free-fall speed.
Also, sometimes the longer we spend with 9/11 information, the harder it can be for us to remember the main hooks for beginners--WTC 7, no planes, Bush and the Secret Service, events at the Pentagon, etc.
I have found that a good approach for many beginners is quietly presenting them with a simple series of weird anomalies--the passport found in NYC (an obvious plant), Atta's suitcase, the very quick confiscation of the Pentagon gas-station videos, the disappearance of flight 93, the intact windows in WTC 7 and the Towers up until the very onset of collapse (this shows that the fires were not hot enough to weaken the steel), plus the ones mentioned just above.
It seems that many people simply have not looked at the evidence, so it is our job to provide some interesting details that will make them want to dig deeper.
I believe that it is also helpful to get out of the way as soon as someone becomes really interested. Almost all people enjoy ideas more if they believe that it is "theirs" or that they "discovered" it on their own. Best to provide appropriate hooks tailored to our audience, and then let them do their own research with just an occasional "follow-up" session if we notice them getting too lazy.
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JFK on secrecy and the press
Mostly agree
I think explosive demolition is a pretty good point and it's definitely a good idea for people like Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan and Jim Hoffman to start with it. However, I suppose there is too much focus on it sometimes and some people would be betteabout other things.
it WAS controlled demolition
"When most people get on the television, the first thing they do is talk about Controlled Demolition. When most people are interviewed on the radio, the first thing they do is talk about Controlled Demolition."
ummm...that's backed up by what? if it is true, maybe it's because it's obvious. yeah, the families lost loved ones that day, but i think i lost my country. how can we get it back? controlled demolition and the idiots with explosives in their van or a laundry list of limited hangout questions?
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
I consider...
Limiting our message as a "limited hangout."
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Michael Moore
I do agree that there is more to 911 than CD, and im glad some people are researching /speaking out on all those areas.
But I think your 'no better than Michael Moore' analogy is flawed.
CD shows clearly that something about 911 is terribly wrong. Its not a 'half truth', just because it doesnt involve/explain all the other circumstantial evidence there is. Moore shows us that something about 911 is a bit weird, maybe. *That* is a half-truth.
I don't care...
That this blog is getting voted down with 1's. I expected that. My question to those voting it down is, are you saying this IS the "Controlled Demolition Movement?"
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Thats a bunch
Thats a bunch of bullshit. If a blog like this gets voted 1's theres definate dis-info'ing going on.
Keep posting blogs Jon, its clear what THEY are doing. Your blogs are very welcomed site to read.
People need to read the content of important info posted in such blogs. Dont let them discourage you Jon, it only hurts the rest of us if they silence you or anyone else.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
I suspect...
The ones are coming from regular posters of 911Blogger.com. I'm sure they will disagree with your disinfo assertion.
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i voted it down because its
i voted it down because its so typical coming from you. no offense, but it just sounds like sour grapes again. and i say this as someone who promotes EVERYTHING except tv-fakery and DEW.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
So you're saying...
That almost every 9/11 conference does not revolve around Prof. Jones and/or Controlled Demolition, that almost every member of this movement that has managed to get on the television has not promoted CD, that 95% of all the posts on 911Blogger.com don't have something to do with CD, that most people that manage to confront our elected officials don't do so with "WTC7", that most people that manage to get interviewed by newspapers don't mention Controlled Demolition? You're right. I do have sour grapes because the direction of this movement has been controlled from outside and within.
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no, that actually wasnt my
no, that actually wasnt my point. i just responded to you saying that people would vote it down because they want the movement to be only about CD. thats not true in my case and i voted you down because ive heard this from you and John way too many times. that if we would just talk about what you want us to talk about the media would somehow start reporting those things. should Steven Jones just take his ball and go home? because there are still developments on the issue of CD, this would also explain why you hear so much about it from within the movement, new evidence keeps coming. that said, i agree, it would be nice if the people who confronted elected officials about 9/11 could mix it up a bit more and get more specific when needed and if members of the movement who got on tv would talk about more than CD. but you have to remember the setting, 3 minutes of abuse at the hands of Hannity isnt exactly the best enviroment to lay out a full understanding of 9/11. in that setting you have to take what you can get and unfortunately that isnt much.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Direction of Movement...
Where would you like it to go, Jon? I think the goal is to wake as many people as possible in the shortest time possible.
CD is the elephant in the room. The images of the destruction are what is burned into people's minds, and the evidence for controlled demo is irrefutable.
Yes, there are other important elements that will resonate with some people more than the demoliitons. But a picture is worth a thousand words, remember? So much information is contained in those videos of the collapse sequences, that just asking people to re-examine what they think they saw becomes a very powerful technique.
The movement SHOULD be controlled from within to a degree. We need direction, focus, and strategy. We just need to make sure WE'RE controlling it, and not the spooks.
Everyone just disseminte the information you are the most comfortable with explaining to people. There are millions of us. It will all get out there.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Good question...
Although I don't agree with your goal. Absolute truth, absolute accountability, absolute justice, and finally, closure. Unless you're referring to short term goals. There is most certainly a difference. Recently, our goal was to get 15,000 signatures for the families. Another goal is to get $5k for the first responders. Another goal is making the Vancouver conference a success. That particular list goes on and on.
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Well, yeah. Short term goal.
I would go even further and say that we need to restructure our whole system of government, and our whole economy to make sure that this doesn't happen again. I think the ultimate goal would be a full blown cultural renaissance. But first, Wakey-Wakey!!!
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
CD is not the elephant in the room
Controlled Demolition is not the elephant in the room that everyone wants to avoid any real discussion about. The elephant in the room concerns research into the parties who orchestrated and set up the controlled demolition with the authority of the NY/NJ Port Authority and foreign agents working out of New Jersey.
For us, or the general public?
For the uninitiated, CD is the elephant in the room. For those of us within the movement, yes, it may be the Mossad angle. (That is what you are referring to, right?) Still, Zionists are only one of the parties. We shouldn't get tunnel vision. Look past 9/11. In case you hadn't noticed, there is a bit of a world take-over thing going on right now. It's not all because of Israel.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
are you saying this IS the "Controlled Demolition Movement?"
YES
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
This is a strawman exercise to waste our time
Jon, the MAIN EVENT of 9/11 is the demolition of three skyscrapers in downtown Manhattan -- two 110 stories and one 48 stories. It is the main element of the 9/11 "shock and awe" campaign. It is the very event that killed all those firefighters and 9/11 family members' relatives, and the event that still keeps on killing. Yes, there is a whole host of political, military and economic contextual events as well, but the controlled demolition of those buildings is the easiest to see and the easiest to explain. The idea that someone needs an advanced degree in physics or structural engineering to understand these things or explain these things is a strawman argument. Simple High School physics and general science is involved.
Why can't we...
Bring up points as simple as this...
This Administration fought against the family members for the creation of the 9/11 Commission, and then when they were forced to do so, they created a compromised 9/11 Commission that, by the Commissioners' own admission, was "set up to fail."
"Jersey Girl" Lorie Van Auken recently said “it was a pathetic excuse of a report."
NORAD failed on 9/11, and lied to the 9/11 Commission, and they considered filing, "criminal charges against senior members of the military."
Simple statements like these are POWERFUL in the public mind, and they can't be refuted by papers like this.
Controlled Demolition was "taboo" 2 years ago because it came across as "crazy." It wasn't until Prof. Jones came out that it finally gained credibility. We need to start spreading more information for those people who still think things like CD are "crazy."
I suspect that part of the reason CD is promoted so often is because of the fact that it's "easy." All you have to do is show a video. As Allen Dulles once said, "Americans don't read." This issue is too important for us not to read.
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"I suspect that part of the
"I suspect that part of the reason CD is promoted so often is because of the fact that it's "easy." All you have to do is show a video. As Allen Dulles once said, "Americans don't read." This issue is too important for us not to read."
yep, i would say you are right on with that assumption. thats the tough thing about the evidence that you want to promote(and which SHOULD be promoted along with CD)though, its so easy for people to say things like-"well they must have gotten it wrong or we would be hearing about in the liberal media", "thats only words on paper, that means nothing to me","why isnt the media reporting this NOW if its true?" etc. but when they see WTC7 with their own eyes its not something that can be explained away as a journalists mistake a la Flight 93 landing in Cleveland etc. Americans are too trusting. they asssume that if what we were saying about 9/11 was true that the media would no doubt report it. we all know how wrong that is but the average american doesnt. their eyes dont lie though and this is the importance of CD. and again, drop CD and the media is not going to magically start talking ISI/CIA,NORAD etc.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
An important point.
I would submit to you one important point. The kind of apathy we are battling is pretty severe, and people are kind of used to a base level of bad news - they lied about WMD, they lied about the war, the elections were stolen, etc.
People are so used to lies, that sometimes, what they need is that huge slap in the face.
"The world trade center buildings were demolished. Look - you can see the blast points."
That is what did it for me - so it can't be downplayed. Controlled demolition is important - but it's always important to say that it is part of a larger picture including the Jersey Girls, First Responders, 9/11 Comission, etc.
Were doing fine people! Just keep up the good work - let's embrace everyone's individual strengths.
I personally think we should have a First Responder benefit concert TOUR - if someone would sponsor that.
You could call it "First Aid"
My band would gladly throw in it's hat.
www.myspace.com/culturalrelativity
exactly. ALL evidence that
exactly. ALL evidence that points to inside job should be used. i wish all sides felt this way.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
In that case . . .
I hope you will watch this new film about the involvement of the media in 9/11:
http://www.livevideo.com/socialservice
sorry, i should have been more clear here
and i say this as someone who promotes EVERYTHING except tv-fakery and DEW.
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 06/07/2007 - 8:30am.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I take that to mean you won't watch
That's your loss, Chris. And ironic, given your signature quote.
The media hoax and DEW are completely separate issues.
actually, i tried to and it
actually, i tried to and it wouldnt work for me(im still willing to watch if you can drop me another link). im not against learning new information but im also pretty tactful. so no, i wont be promoting tv-fakery anytime soon.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
...
I had trouble with it -- it worked when I let it load completely and then played it.
Sounds good.
I think the server's getting jammed up today, so you might try in a day or two. That's the only link I know but if I find another I'll let you know.
If anything, this is the easiest way to see exactly what the TV Fakery people think is the best evidence, with tasteful music and no poop shots. (I hope you get that joke!) If you think this is disinfo, you won't like it, because it really is well done and likely to appeal to more people.
I think the content is accurate and the conclusions are sound, and the only poop is in the pants of the media perps.
haha, enough with the poop
haha, enough with the poop already! and like i said, i will watch it.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
i watched all 3 parts. not
i watched all 3 parts. not our best evidence. not even close.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Chris man why are you even
Chris man why are you even watching what this "no planes hit the Twin Towers" disinfo artist is pushing here?
Because he thinks for himself
Give it up, DLBS. People know that I am sincere about this. You can't respond on the merits -- all you can do is attack me as a "disinfo artist."
Steven Jones appears to agree with me that the airplane wheel at West and Rector could not have passed through the core of the North Tower. I say that means it was planted there, and that suggests (but does not prove) no planes. Regardless, this debris cannot be used as proof of planes. Other debris is equally implausible, though Professor Jones has not acknowledged that yet.
http://911blogger.com/node/9182
Please stop making baseless attacks on me. We disagree on this issue. Leave it at that. If you want to say this is disinformation, fine, but quit accusing me of thinking it is disinformation and intentionally spreading it. That's a lie. And quit accusing me of talking about holograms and space beams. No one believes holograms were used, and "space beams" and "mini-nukes are each separate issues that I don't talk about because I am not convinced.
"No one believes holograms
"No one believes holograms were used"
Yea, except for "Ex" MI5 agent David Shayler;
"Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/11."... "The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes," "Watch the footage frame by frame and you will see a cigar-shaped missile hitting the World Trade Center."... "I know it sounds weird, but this is what I believe."
http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028
You don't fool me, what you are is quite blatant.
I rest my case
I distrust Shayler for the same reason you do, and surprise, he's the only one talking about holograms.
I think he's changed his tune, but the damage is done.
What am I? Are you saying I am paid to write this? By who? Please be clear about what you are accusing me of.
What will it take for you to quit hassling me? How about the below signature?
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Dem Bruce Lee Styles says I'm a shill.
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calm down man, how long have
calm down man, how long have you known me? i have an open mind and never reject information. ive seen the research on the "no plane" theories before and was unconvinced. i was told that this was the latest and best presentation of the info and simply watched it. whats the big deal? i stay unconvinced after watching all 3 parts. i believe its possible there was some sort of video manipulation, not to hide the fact that there were no planes but to possibly hide the fact that it was not the original flights that struck the towers. this would dovetail with Northwoods swapped planes etc. understand, this isnt something im married to by any means and isnt something i ever even bring up when pushing 9/11 truth, im just thinking out loud here. its an interesting presentation but doesnt even come close to causing me to think that a missile was used and that all of the people in manhattan that saw the planes are somehow all wrong.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Yea, it's clear disinfo dude
Yea, it's clear disinfo dude and we should'nt even be humouring it though is my point.
we can ignore it or we can
we can ignore it or we can confront it. i choose not to ignore available information, no matter how absurd it sounds. i watched it and remain unconvinced. no big deal man.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Thanks for watching it, Chris
You talk about witnesses to planes. Aren't you thinking a bit circular? It happened, so there must have been thousands of witnesses, so it happened.
Here are some firefighters that did not see planes, just explosions.
http://ningens-blog.blogspot.com/2007/06/why-didnt-these-firefighters-se...
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Dem Bruce Lee Styles
says I'm a shill.
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Wrong witness
Here's a reporter brushing off a witness because what he saw didn't comport with what the reporter had seen on television. if this is for real, it could be an example of how the myth spread. Note that the reporter does not have to be in on it, he just has to have low journalistic standards.
http://ningens-blog.blogspot.com/2007/06/obviously-wrong-witness.html
I agree that the entire 9/11
I agree that the entire 9/11 scenario needs to be put into its full "deep politics" context; unfortunately, that takes more time than most people are granted in short conversations and encounters, but it should definitely be attempted whenever possible. It's rather frustrating that even when we gain some traction on 9/11, we can't make people read the books that will suss out the full context, so more articles along those lines should be encouraged on 9/11 sites.
And although we are reluctant to be branded as overall "conspiracy theorists," it never hurts to quickly lay out the coverups involved in the '93 bombing, Oklahoma City, Waco, Columbine, etc., in addition to the oft-cited phony war pretexts in "Terrorstorm." (I recently got one person here in D.C. to consider 9/11 on the basis of Dave McGowan's pieces on the D.C. Snipers: http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr45.html , and another after reading John Judge's analysis of Jonestown: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html . In both cases, they were able to see that a deluge of media attention to a story doesn't indicate full disclosure -- and that the feds are no strangers to massive coverup and collateral damage indifference.)
The subjects of the families and CD can be combined. I try to bring up the families when discussing CD: "Remember, the majority of 9/11 victims died because those buildings imploded, not because they were hit by planes. If there is even the slightest evidence that the buildings were brought down by any other means, don't you think the families deserve a real investigation to determine the truth? "
But we need to help generate more media for the hardline, outspoken family members, because the silent ones (whatever the myriad reasons for their silence) are presumed to be satisfied with the investigation results. After nearly six years of "unanswered questions" and coverup, they must realize that they've received their answer, and it is COMPLICITY. The awakened ones see that this issue is about the fate of the entire world, not only about the individual victims of 9/11, which is the most important context of all.
"The subjects of the families and CD can be combined."
Thank you, LEH. Nice comment.
Jon, you seem to imply that there is a contradiction between the controlled demolition and the families. How can that be. The vast majority of 9/11 victims died because those towers "collapsed." How can this not be the focus of this movement?
Deep politics is very complex, as is the military response. I disagree with your assertion that because the destruction of the buildings raises scientific issues, it is more complex and less accessible to the common person. It is actually the opposite. The laws of physics are taught in every high school in this country, and are simple and immutable. The facts are openly accessible --- the rapid pulverization of the towers.
Deep politics and military response are the subject of secrecy, conflicting testimonies, and varying interpretations, and I vehemently disagree with the assertion that these matters are the best proof.
All the deep politics and actions of the military and intelligence apparatus ended in the destruction of those towers, and that's what killed and injured so many. I find it hard to believe that the families are not concerned about this, and if they are not, then they are misguided.
The families...
Want justice, accountability, truth and closure, as should this movement. That is what this movement is about. Not Controlled Demolition. I did not say, "Deep politics and military response" are the "best proof." I said, "there are OTHER aspects to 9/11 Truth that don't involve "science", and I said, "each question we have, each piece of evidence we find, are all a part of acheiving those goals."
However, I have never seen a member of this movement get on the television, and say that the family members called for a new investigation. I have never seen a member of this movement get on the television, and promote the ridiculousness of the 9/11 Commission. I have never seen a member of this movement get on the television, and talk about the 70% of unaswered questions supplied by the family members. I will say it again. There are OTHER aspects to 9/11 Truth that don't involve "science."
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OK
I agree that the family members calling for a new investigation and the ridiculousness of the 9/11 Commission should be mentioned every time. This should particularly be mentioned to counter or preempt the propaganda line that questioning the official story hurts the families. And I agree that there are other aspects of 9/11.
However, the main arguments for controlled demolition were published within days of 9/11 and resisted for years by the so-called "truth" movement, apparently for the misguided reason that it is "sounds crazy."
I don't see a problem with the media presenting controlled demolition as the central and common belief of the "conspiracy theorists." It is simple, powerful, and is the central and most deadly act of the crime.
It needs to be addressed by the government, now.
Which reminds me -- the real problem with the AP statement is that it says we all "think the U.S. government destroyed the World Trade Center." It is far too simple and is extremely misleading to say that the monolithic "U.S. government" did it.
What I think - know - is that the World Trade Center was destroyed by means other than airplanes. I think we all agree on that, and that it is the central act of the crime that leads to the perps.
Who did it and why the government is covering that up is the next question. How it was done may help lead to the answer of who did it.
This may and probably will lead to elements of the U.S. government, but "the government did it" and "Bush did it" is obfuscating propaganda. And where did it start? Wasn't it Murdoch's New York Post that put "Bush Did It" in bold words on its front page?
Finally, I am very wary of the word "closure," which could as easily be achieved by believing the official story and is often used by the media and people like Les Robertson to stifle debate.
I see a focus on the destruction of the towers as advancing, not hindering justice and accountability.
Where did "closure" come from?
I think the idea that we are anywhere near a juncture where "closure" is an appropriate goal is deeply disturbing. To coin a parallel to one expression, the shortest route to closure is straight through a limited hangout.
Ultimate...
Goals. Short term goals are another story entirely.
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The Families and Firefighters want to know
WHO WIRED THOSE BUILDINGS FOR DEMOLITION. Then there might be some closure if the people who authorized, supervised, and physically wired those buildings are rounded up for questioning. They need to be taken off the streets so that they don't do it again and kill more FAMILIES and FIREFIGHTERS.
This is excruciating, how
This is excruciating, how can anybody be falling for the crap this guy "Ningen" comes out with? For anyone not paying attention it goes like this - "No planes hit the Towers".. blah blah... (voted down) *next post*..."random contrived agreeable comment"... (voted up) *next post*... more "No Planes hit the Towers with bazaar and completely nonsensical citations of NIST" (voted down) *next post*.. more contrived fake as hell junk that he knows most of us will agree with i.e. showing support to the family members. What the HELL is up with all this? Why does it seem only me and John Albanese see what this suspect individual is playing at?
Let's see it
Show me a "bazaar [sic] and completely nonsensical citation of NIST." Explain.
Or perhaps we should just wait for Professor Jones to respond. He will respond with reason and civility.
You responded with a British agent's "holograms" disinformation.
I've been clear that support for the families goes only so far.
Still waiting, DBLS
Professor Jones has responded and I replied with cites to NIST. If you have anything to add of substance, please do so.
http://911blogger.com/node/9182
I'm also still waiting for your explanation of what I am and who you think is paying me.
If you cannot substantiate your allegations, you need to quit making them. It is disruptive.
That's just it...
You and I read, but "Amurrikins" DON'T. They need colorful pictures and flashing lights and girls in bikinis shakin' their junk. People can't string together a couple logical thoughts to save their lives.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
You can, Jon
But each of your points can be, and already has been for several years, explained as bureaucrats covering their ass.
In the context of the pulverization of the towers, of course, your points take on more significance. So keep pushing them.
You cite Bazant's paper as if it is difficult to refute. It's not. It's an obvious fraud. CD is easy. It's completely obvious, and that was explained many years ago by people like Jeff King.
Thank you
Thanks for making a much needed point. CD is best treated as part of a much larger, multifaceted whole. It's useful, but many of the other anomalies in the story are more important to focus on as a movement and should be given priority -- those that can get somewhere in court, based on documents. Areas concerning the investigations (or lack thereof) of financing; put options; air force response; military/terror drills coordination; activities of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers et al. during the attacks; ISI - Al Qaeda connections; Able Danger etc., are all more worthy of pursuit -- and exposure in public forums.
Thanks, Jon.
Buzz
and if you think ignoring CD
and if you think ignoring CD and the Pentagon would cause the AP or any other MSM to talk about what YOU want them to talk about concerning 9/11 i have a bridge for sale.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I didn't say...
We should ignore Controlled Demolition. Nothing will cause the AP or any other MSM to talk about what "I" want to talk about. My point is though, that we can MAKE them talk about what "I" want to talk about. What's to stop the next person to confront an elected official from bringing up the families' call for a new investigation at the National Press Club in Washington D.C.? What's to stop the next person to get on the television set to focus the discussion around other things that aren't "scientific?"
Just imagine...
Sean Hannity: Welp, there's one born every minute. Today, we saw another looney left celebrity speak out in favor of the lunacy that is considered to be "9/11 Truth." Talk show host Oprah Winfrey publicly questioned on her show that reaches millions of people, including the 9/11 families, whether or not the Bush Administration was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
Let's go to clip:
BEGIN CLIP
"I just found out today that Secretary of Treasury, Paul O'Neill wrote in his book entitled, "The Price Of Loyalty", that 10 days after Bush's inauguration, he asked his principles to "go find me a way" to invade Iraq. Then, I looked back a little further, and I found this organization called the PNAC that comprises a large portion of the current Bush Administration. They came out with a document in September 2000 called, "Rebuilding America's Defenses" that spoke of things like removing Saddam Hussein's regime, etc... in order to conform to this so called, "process of transformation" that is mentioned 27 times. Disgustingly, this document states that this "process of transformation" would not be possible without a "paralyzing and catalytic event like a new Pearl Harbor." One year later, September 11th happens, and this Administration gets its' war. I saw this movie the other day called, "9/11: Press For Truth." The entire 9/11 Commission was compromised from top to bottom. The 9/11 Families are furious with the outcome of that report. They only answered about 30% of their questions. Bush and Cheney refused to testify publicly and under oath. Why the Hell should we take these people at their word? What is their word worth? Not a God damned thing."
END CLIP
Hannity: Alright, she's as nutty as a fruitcake. With us today is 9/11 Truth Activist Peter Griffin. Mr. Griffin, what gives you the right to promote this garbage and dishonor the 9/11 family members who lost loved ones that day?
Peter Griffin: Well Sean, as Oprah stated, if you watch 9/11: Press For Truth, you will see that the family members that fought for the creation of the 9/11 Commission are furious with what they were given as the definitive account of how their loved ones died. Representatives of the fam...
Hannity: Well wait a minute. Let's step back, and take a look at how Sandy Berger stole documents, and pleaded guilty for it. Surely the Clinton Administration is just as to blame for the 9/11 attacks, if not moreso than the Bush Administration.
Peter Griffin: Well Sean, the fact of the matter is, the Bush Administration was in office on 9/11/2001. When does the President of the United States take responsibility for his or her oath of office? 9 months and 12 days later? I'm also interested in what Sandy Berger stole. You're trying to make this a partisan issue, and it's not. As I was trying to say, representatives of the family members called for a new investigation this past anniversary at the National Press Club in Washington D.C., and Fox News did not cover it.
Hannity: What was it like 3 family members? C'mon, they're as nutty as you are.
Peter Griffin: Sean, you're dishonoring the family members. As Bill Doyle stated, upwards of 50% of his organization of family members...
Hannity: Oh just shut up... shut up shut up shut up...
Peter Griffin: ...believe as they do. In 2004, 50% of New Yorkers were polled by Zogby, and they also believed as they do. In 2006, out...
Hannity: Would you shut up? Go to commercial. Hmmm Hmmm Hmmm, I'm not listening... Hmmm Hmmm Hmmm...
Peter Griffin: ...of 70,000,000 registered voters, 45% believed as they do. The family members that fought for the creation...
Hannity: Oh my god... why won't this end... Alan... why won't you say something?
Peter Griffin: ...of the 9/11 Commission declared that 9/11 Commission "derelict in its' duties", and they questioned the "entire veracity" of the 9/11 Report.
Alan Colmes: Sean has collapsed. Medics are looking over him now. Thank you Mr. Griffin for your comments today. Next up, the terror alert that will really knock your socks off.
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i've damn near abandoned the movement
i've damn near abandoned the movement b/c the debate has been willfully pigeon-holed to hinge on the controlled demo theories. I'm still around though...
ok
and we'd like to keep it that way. some people push CD, others push NORAD, etc. theyre all different paths to the same truth, and as long as we continue to accept ALL the different roads, we'll be an effective movement.
there are indeed forces working to divide the movement into pieces, to decrease its effectiveness in communicating truth to the people. we must acknowledge this, and continue to move forward. i will not sit idly while people like Tiguhs OndaBayou contemplate abandoning the movement because some people are louder than others.
that is unacceptable, and if we let atrition like that take place then our priorities and focus need to be re-directed. this is such a critical time for 9/11 Truth that we need EVERYONE to do their part, or we'll falter as a movement and become relegated to the history books. think on this.
_________________________________
Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Unacceptable.
You can choose to do whatever actions you think are best to wake people up. Quitting... Well, I'm sure you can imagine the consequences of failure...
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
WTC demolition is not a
WTC demolition is not a theory. It was done. Here is a picture you won't see in a coffee table book. Notice this is a core box column, by its dimensions provably from below the 60th floor. It was not hit by a plane. What do you think peeled it like a banana and partially vaporized its flanges?
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/Photo%20archives/bomb%20marks/1391NY...
The other aspects of the "inside job" are important, but the centerpiece of the psychological operation against all of us, the main source of trauma (disorientation/regression/transference), was the spectacular felling of the towers. The argument that "just crashing the planes would have been enough" is rubbish. Two smoking holes in still-standing towers would not have sufficiently awed a public accustomed to Hollywood disaster movies.
For this reason exposing the demolitions is critical, because until the main ritual is deconstructed, the victim cannot be deprogrammed, not matter how much circumstantial evidence you muster.
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Obvious Demolition
The reason CONTROLLED DEMOLITION is a major focus is because it's obvious. Watch the videos.
The controlled demolition is the most powerful and explosive evidence that 9/11 has not been adequately explained.
I disagree with your premise that we need to focus on a whole slew of areas. Ever put too much water in your coffee? Yuck!
It's the most obvious path to a new investigation.
One thing I don't agree with, which I think you would concur, is the "US GOVERNMENT DID 9/11" mentality. Do we know that? Why conclude things we don't know? Are we sure there were no other state sponsors?
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
Actually...
Voicing the family members' call for a new investigation is "the most obvious path to a new investigation." I do not agree that 9/11 was orchestrated from top to bottom by the U.S. I believe countries that are considered to be our allies played a role. However, I do believe the quickest path to 9/11 Truth is right through the White House. It was the White House that stymied any effort for an investigation. It was the White House that stacked the deck of the Commission. It was the White House that limited the funding, and the time for the investigation. It was the White House that lied under oath. It was the White House that refused to hand over pertinent documentation related to the 9/11 attacks. It was the White House that vetted each and every page of the report before it was released, even though it was supposed to be an "independent" commission. It was the White House that came into office with a pre-existing agenda for war in the Middle East. It was the White House that used the 9/11 attacks to achieve that pre-existing agenda. No one has benefitted more from the 9/11 attacks than the White House, and the military industrial complex.
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That is...
Exactly how I present 9/11 Truth to people. Your paragraph about the White House is money. I show the controlled demoloition of the world trade center complex then I show, in chronological order, the things you stated above.
It works because the imagery from the towers destruction cant' be matched and it opens the door.
That would be an effective 9/11 video...show the demolition of the WTC complex as a quick introduction...say 1/4 of the movie...then show the White House's reactdion since. It's pretty tight case.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
But the White House works for somebody else
The White House works for somebody else, and the Families of the Firemen want to know who put the explosives, thermate cutter charges, etc. in those buildings, for that is what killed them and is still killing them, and you know as well as I do that Lewis Eisenberg and friends at the Port Authority and the Mossad front in New Jersey -- Urban Moving Systems -- was involved in those operations. So I support your concern for the families, but trying to steer people away from the demolition crews who set the charges does not serve the TRUTH of the situation, and that is what we are after. Controlled demolitions are the clearest signal that there is no LIHOP involved, but is clearly a situation of MIHOP only.
The OP Should have explained himself further
Good post Jon, but I believe you didn't communicate your message effectively.
For example, with regards to controlled demolition, it's a subject that I rarely address when introducing 9/11 to unwary people. Other things that I initially avoid are Bush's inaction in the classroom and the "no plane at the Pentagon" - which is a huge red herring in the court of public opinion.
Those kinds of discussions are simply unwinnable when faced with a skeptic or the unitiated whose reality is based upon network news.
So where do I focus? I always start with the political whitewash by the 9/11 Commission, beginning with the whereabouts of Gen. Richard Myers while NORAD and the NMCC were ramping up, two towers had been struck, hijacked planes were still roaming our skies, and supposedly nobody knew how much further this series of attacks might go - including potential foreign forces or nuke strikes once our military was distracted. He claims to have been unaware of the unfolding attacks.
That type of intro takes all of the heat away from the political wedge that the mainstream and Micheal Moore propagandists have injected into the 9/11 Truth movement since the beginning. Additionally, I start the conversation without referring to 9/11 as an inside job. The initial discussion is about how nobody was fired because of dereliction of duty and incompetence. What this does is open the reader or listener to accepting that the 9/11 Commission has failed without ever mentioning a "conspiracy". The mind becomes open to further details, for the sake of future security.
From there I simply continue the same thought process and I move from Myers over to Sec. Def. Rumsfeld. He was also MIA until the Pentagon was struck by one of the hijacked planes. And when that happened, instead of rushing from his office to the NMCC to make sure that our defences were activated, he rushed to the other side of the Pentagon, ran outside, and posed for a photo op while he helped load a victim into an ambulance. "The lack of appropriate response is mind boggling. and the fact that the 9/11 Commission held nobody accountable isn't acceptable for the victims or their family members". That's how I present it.
Then it's easy to shift gears and talk about how Bush knew that he'd changed the rules of engagement for hijacked planes in the spring, and he knew that his Seretary of Defense now needed to approve any military action to stop them. "He should have been out of his chair immediately to make sure that was happening." After that, the Aug PDB is ripe for introduction. "He was just briefed on an OBL effort to hijack planes as weapons to target US cities and he didn't change the new hijacking rule - then when the attacks unfolded he sat still when he's been warned about the attacks and he had no idea how far it would go."
Then you move quickly to Bush's security. "Even the Secret Service failed! Bush was in a highly public location, terrorists were flying the skies in hijacked planes and taking out prominant US targets, yet they left him in front of the camera's as unknown inbound planes were still heading to additional targets!"
It's a simple progression:
1. The 9/11 Commission was a whitewash and should be re-investigated
2. What about Gen. Richard Myers...
3. And Rumsfeld was MIA too...
3. And the President knew that Rumsfeld was needed, yet...
4. Bush was told a month earlier about OBL/hijacks/US targets...
5. And the Secret Service did nothing to protect him...
6. "I don't think we know half the story - the 9/11 Commission Report didn't mention any of this or hold anyone acountable. I think the victims' families and the country deserve the whole story..."
That's a thought process that's not present in the psyche's of most Americans. It opens airplane sized hangar doors in peoples minds once they get a grip on the fact that the 9/11 Commission didn't report any of these failures that allowed the attacks to succeed. Once that message is received the "inside job" theory becomes feasible without ever mentioning controlled demolition, without ever mentioning "no plane" at the Pentagon, without ever mentioning WTC7, and without having to into the history of OBL relations, oil, or the plethora of additional circumstanbtial and physical evidence.
The key to bringing 9/11 Truth to the public isn't to convince people. The key is opening people's minds. If you start with an issue that hasn't been politicized and then move into additional failures and the unaccountability of the 9/11 Commission, you can effectively cultivate an open mind regarding the additional issues. WTC7 and "9/11 Was An Inside Job" are important for demonstrations and bringing immediate public attention to the issue, but when it comes to opening minds and de-politicizing the issues in writing or in conversation, it's the circumstantial events that will move mountains. They can't be denied, so they must become part of the focus.
Excellent post
Very well said, Shorebreak.
"The key to bringing 9/11 Truth to the public isn't to convince people. The key is opening people's minds."
Right. Most of us need to be invited, not pressed, to discover we may be wrong in our understanding. Our natural psychological defences will resist even the most rational arguments when we feel threatened. "Going lightly" with people is not a compromise -- it's wise strategy. The turn-off-forever switch is so easily triggered in most of us. For this reason, the slogan "9/11 was an inside job" is in my opinion unskillful as a message intended to reach new people. "9/11 Truth" or "Investigate 9/11", for example, will probably be much more effective in planting the seeds of a healthy doubt in so many who'd otherwise react dismissively. They'll then be ready to listen to more.
It's also helpful to provide a context which shows the real possibility of doing something about the mess we're bringing attention to, once someone has opened their ears a bit and the horrifying new vision of the world threatens to replace their old comforting one. Otherwise the reaction is so often glazed eyes and the "Well, what can we do about it anyway?" Shrug of Apathy. Expressing faith in our society's capacity and wish to clean the criminal systems up and move forward in a healthy way, drawing attention to the exploding numbers around the globe now waking up and getting out there as a burdgeoning movement, etc., is always a helpful context to give listeners, I've found.
Buzz
Agree with ...
considering a number of topics that show the breadth of the 9/11 evidence.
In my talk tonight, I plan to discuss the collapse of WTC 7 -- a common starting point in talks given -- with an immediate emphasis that the 9/11 Comm report failed to even mention the collapse of WTC 7. And the lateness of the NIST report on WTC7. And yes, the peculiarity of the collapse and the papers on WTC 7 in the Journal of 9/11 Studies. And the FEMA comment "Our best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurence" -- relating to their treatment of WTC 7.
It's a strong case, altogether -- not just the WTC 7 collapse itself, but all that surrounds it. Also, sulfidation in WTC 7 steel (observed by WPI).
I also talk about the LACK OF AIR DEFENSES, Mineta's testimoney re: Cheney, published papers on the destruction of the Towers, money made on PUT OPTIONS (and the 911 Comm light treatment of this), the toxicity of the dust and EPA/white House denials of that,
iron-rich microspheres in the dust, conditioning by the media, quotes from Rockefeller and others re: NWO.
I have often sought for feedback, in writing, and can report that the majority find that hard physical evidence provides a compelling case -- along with the Put Options and lack of air defenses. These seem to provide the strongest arguments for most. (A quick survey, however.)
Tonight, I will also talk about the North American Union as I get asked about that a lot lately...
I wholeheartedly...
Expect YOU of all people to talk about CD. But what about everyone else that don't have a degree in physics, that don't have a degree in structural engineering, that don't have a degree in metallurgy, etc... on top of that, there are other aspects to 9/11 that never get mentioned when the spotlight is on. Things that won't come across as "crazy", and will wake a helluva lot of people up. You promoting CD is not as "crazy" as me. Which is why I stay away from the argument, and just refer people to you.
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And deep politics is easy?
The matters you want us to focus on are very murky, hard to prove, and subject to varying manipulations and interpretations. Moreover, a lot of it has been public record for years, leading nowhere. It all ended in the pulverization of the towers, which is what killed most of the people on 9/11. The trail leads back from there, and may lead into the murky areas where you want us to begin. You want us to begin in that swamp.
You don't need a degree in physics to understand physics. Certainly we want physics professors and structural engineers on our side, but Newtonian mechanics are taught in our high schools and the facts and theories are accessible to everyone.
There's nothing at all "crazy" about this, and it disturbs me that you would use that word. It reminds of John Albanese calling this movement a "cultural phenomenon."
Who said anything...
About "Deep Politics?" I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. The matters I want to focus on are EASY to prove which is WHY they should be promoted by EVERYONE.
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The things you want to focus on
have been proven, in many cases, to little effect, because they are subject to such varying explanations and interpretations.
And deep politics is just a way to describe the ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda links, the Sibel Edmonds mystery story, etc.
Promote what you want, Jon. Nobody is stopping you.
Representatives...
Of a good portion of family members called for a new investigation. Please tell me how that is subject to "varying explanations and interpretations."
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It's not, of course
I'm talking about the reasons offered for a new investigation, which then influence the scope and foci of the investigation.
If the majority of the families of people lost in the Twin Towers do not know that the government is lying about the "collapses," and are not making that a key part of their reasons why a new investigation is necessary, then something is seriously wrong.
It's not...
Period.
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Controlled Demolition is not Astro-physics
The emperor has no clothes, he is plainly naked, as anyone can see from watching other controlled demolition videos. Basic High School Newtonian physics -- Conservation of Momentum, Galilean Free-fall, etc. Get out a stopwatch, time the towers coming down, calculate the fall of 110 stories in roughly ten seconds, and you are plainly looking at controlled demolition adding enough energy to get the visual effects you are seeing with your own eyes. Thanks to Dr. Jones and his colleagues, we also now have forensic evidence of arson/demolition. Pretty simple. It is a shame that professional scientists have to spend their valuable time illustrating a clear case of simple CD. This part of the 9/11 research is over, and we need to move on to the next phase which is looking into who would have the means and opportunity to wire up those three buildings.
?
Now you're just not making sense. I think that using the means, motive, opportunity rubric, most people would see the first sentence as a reasonable conjecture. The only "ridiculous" part is giving weight to Larry's specious suggestion that a decisive phone call took place the day of.
My point is...
Was it Larry Silverstein that told the fire commander to "pull it" which is often promoted as fact (referring to "pull it" being the command to CD the building), or was it the Israeli Mossad which is also often promoted as fact? The fact is, no one in this movement knows if either is the case. My suggestion would be to promote the science over the "whodunnit" because no one knows, and it's all conjecture, and speculation. My point is, never promote the speculative arguments as fact.
It's ok to say you don't know what happened on 9/11.
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Yes, I agree:
promoting the science (the demolitions) over the whodunnit (in which category I would certainly include the allegedly Ahmed-authorized wire transfer to Atta, which involves speculation about such basic issues as the use of the money) is often the best way to go.
Why...
Is everything about the $100,000 wire transfer to Mohammad Atta? Is it either or? Incidentally, that falls into the category of funding for the 9/11 attacks. Which may lead to "whodunnit", unless of course you don't think following the money is important.
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That's just an example...
but apart from the problems with the story itself, which jpass has elucidated, I haven't seen ANY evidence that the money was used for the funding of the 9/11 attacks. What are you arguing? That it bought plane tickets? That it went to the alleged hijackers' families? That they bought thermate with it? Waaay into the speculative realm here.
What was the money used for?
I have never seen you address this question. Without an indication of what it was used for, the idea that "it was the funding for the 9/11 attacks" is speculative.
I am not trying to "start arguments" with you -- I am arguing with you over important issues where we disagree. I try to be rigorous about questioning my assumptions and expect the same from others. If straight talk sounds aggressive and thus objectionable to you, then perhaps you're not suited to the heat in this kind of kitchen. (As far as sarcasm, I plead guilty -- but I suggest that you don't want to cast the first stone on that one.)
Really, what did you expect with a blog post titled "This is not the controlled demolition movement"? I'd say that was inflammatory from the get-go and commenters, including myself, have been civil. In order to do my part in keeping it that way, this will be my last post on this thread.
Lap Dances and Cocaine
According to Atta's stripper girlfriend, He and Marwan and the fellas were blowing thousands of dollars an hour at strip clubs just before 9/11. If Atta was flying one of those planes on 9/11, he was doing it with a severe hangover, because he was in heavy party mode the night of 9/10.
Are you of the assumption...
That there is no indication that Mohammad Atta was on that plane?
As far as never having answered this question, here's one instance of me doing that very thing, and guess what, it was a post in response to you specifically.
Would you like me to find other instances of this?
Making the point that there is more to the story is "inflammatory?" Making the point that there are other aspects to 9/11 Truth that need as much, if not more attention than Controlled Demolition is "inflammatory?" Seems to me my idea of "inflammatory" is a lot different than yours.
In this thread, you stated that "it's our responsibility to keep comments friendly and constructive, hahahaha."
Is there something funny about that request or would you like 911Blogger.com to be destroyed?
The amount of time some of us spend fighting about who's way is right, and who should take the highway is absurd considering how much more productive things we can be doing.
Please take your sarcasm, and direct it at someone else.
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I think you are replying to Casseia's above comments, No?
But in regards, to Muhammed Atta being on AA 11, according to his father who was visited by him after the 9/11 events, no he was not on any plane on 9/11. His father believes that shortly after he was visited by Muhammed, the Mossad took him out. After all, you wouldn't want the so-called lead highjacker" of the 9/11 operation wandering around, would you?
Actually
He allegedly received a phone call from him...
On Sept. 12, Atta claims, he was at his vacation home on the Mediterranean coast, shielded from the radio and television and thus unaware of the attacks the previous day, when his son called. They talked about “normal things.” Only later that day, did he hear about the destruction in New York and Washington, and see his son’s picture in the newspaper. He concluded: “They forced him to make the phone call after the attack to cause controversy. Then they killed him. This was done by the Mossad, using American pilots.”
His father also said the videos released of him prior to 9/11 were fake.
Maybe he is valid, or maybe he's a father who refuses to believe his son would be responsible for such an atrocity. Either way, we don't know.
The fact of the matter is CBSNews reported on September 14th, 2001 that "the Boston Globe reported on its web site Thursday that it had obtained a copy of the complete manifest list of the planes hijacked from Boston. The Globe said according to the manifest, Mohamed Atta, one of the suspected terrorists, was assigned seat 8D in business class on American Airlines Flight 11, directly across the aisle from Hollywood producer David Angell and his wife, Lynn, who were in seats 8A and 8B, respectively. Seated next to Atta in seat 8G was Abdul Alomari. FBI investigators have searched Alomari's home in Vero Beach."
So the possibility exists, or there is what is referred to as "reasonable doubt" to think he was on that plane. The possibility also exists that his father is right, and he wasn't. The bottom line is, I don't know, and I am not going to ignore information pertaining to Mohammad Atta just because other people seem to think we should. Nor am I going to state as fact that he was not.
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Thank you for your detailed reply
It seems from the Pilots for 9/11 Truth guys though that it would be impossible for Cessna trained pilots to hit those towers on the first try when even professional Boeing 747 pilots could not do it even after ten tries in a simulator. You can listen to an interview on their site where the instructor describes this experiment. They therefore highly suspect that remote control technology was used, i.e. those planes were flown in "on a wire," and we know that one of the Bushie/PNAC guys Dov Zakheim who was CEO of Systems Planning Corp. has something called the FTS (Flight Termination System) where up to eight large commercial or military test planes can be flown remotely all at the same time on eight different programmable flight paths that are given precise GPS coordinates for targeting operations. With this system you can hit the towers on your first try. Here is their web address where you can download the entire PDF for this system and read all about it http://www.sysplan.com/Radar/FTS Here is yet another Israeli/Republican/Neocon connection along with the technology to create the event we all saw. Remote-control planes and controlled demolition. Nice package, eh?
You say we can't prove anything, but with the thousands of little nicely fitting puzzle pieces we have, one thing can be proven and that is we need to have an investigation into 9/11 that is government-independent, and that Usama and the Saudi kids did not orchestrate this or even materially participate in the actual operations other than act as patsies in a "back-story" constructed by multiple intelligence organizations.
I'm all too familiar...
With Dov Zakheim.
System Planning Corporation
Following Zakheim And Pentagon Trillions To Israel And 9/11
In regards to your point about "thousands of little nicely fitting puzzle pieces" that lead us to the conslusion "we need to have an investigation into 9/11 that is Government-independent" I mostly agree. Which is actually within close proximity of the point of this thread. As far as the "back-story" that was "constructed by multiple intelligence organizations" do you have proof of this? If not, why state it as fact? To say that Osama "did not orchestrate this or even materially participate in the actual operations" means that you must know exactly what happened on 9/11, and I find that hard to believe. Sorry.
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So you are saying that all the research
everyone has done over the last six years is something we should all just shut up about because we don't have signed and sealed documents by Bush and Cheney admitting that 9/11 was done by them and their handlers? I do not know exactly what happened on 9/11 in precise detail, but I have a pretty damn good idea of what happened, who was involved as principals, and how it happened based on many pieces of evidence pointing over and over in the same direction. The al-Qayda/UBL connection is the "False Flag" element of the "False Flag Operation." That should be fairly clear by now. I do have enough evidence to bring this to trial. This is how investigative journalists and trial attorneys put their cases together. It is like a puzzle. You collect seemingly disparate pieces and a picture starts to emerge. I may not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet, but they are being gathered daily by myself and other hard-working researchers. Read Michael Rupert's "Crossing the Rubicon" and you will see that he puts his case together in the method of a police detective investigating a crime. Should an attorney not subpoena a person of interest until he can prove every detail of the crime? Am I understanding you correctly that you think this is an al-Qayda LIHOP situation?
However...
You came to the conclusion that I think "all the research everyone has done over the last six years is something we should all just shut up about because we don't have signed and sealed documents by Bush and Cheney admitting that 9/11 was done by them and their handlers" I don't quite know, but I never said that, or implied it. My point was that you shouldn't state something as fact unless you have absolute proof. I don't dignify the divisive terms LIHOP or MIHOP invented by Nico Haupt anymore. Sorry. As for Ruppert, you obviously don't know anything about me Lazlo. Including Rubicon, I couldn't tell you what of Ruppert's I haven't read.
Have you ever seen this lazlo?
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To whichever...
Team of individuals is following me around to vote down everything I say, fuck off.
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yea really
god forbid someone researches something other than obvious controlled demolition...
jon, youve got supporters too. i highly doubt that we see eye to eye on a lot of things, but knowing what i know about all the work that you've put in to the truth movement garners more than enough respect from me than you'd ever care about.
as a huge proponent of CD, i feel like i understand pretty damn well how that was accomplished.
this is why you and other researchers like you are so invaluable to the movement, as your research makes things clear about 9/11 that put our best CD arguments into context.
peace
_________________________________
Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
be careful of your sources
Did you know the Boston Globe is owned by the New York Times? (I wouldn't say that they are a great source, FYI.) At any rate, I wonder why the Globe got the manifest -- did anyone else? Why can't we see it?
I think it's important to understand all aspects of this, as someone put it, "many-headed hydra." But I myself was convinced that 9/11 was phony when I took a look at the towers exploding, heard and saw the physical evidence, heard eyewitness testimony, and found out about WTC7 (and Larry's statement on video).
As aside: Jon, as an outside observer, I think you may be taking things the wrong way. I'm sure you have a lot invested in 9/11 truth, so it's hard to stay calm and reasonable.
E
Did you know that Fox News...
Is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and part of a propaganda machine Joseph Goebbels would be proud of, yet people promote Carl Cameron's coverage of the Israeli spies as if it's a good source knowing what we know about Fox News. From someone that follows the news, and collects it to post, I have found the Boston Globe to be one of the "better" "news" organizations within this country. For whatever that is worth. This very argument shows one thing. We need a new investigation. Period. Why can't that be our focus? Why can't people promote that idea on the television, etc... that is the point of this blog. I did not sign up to debate whether or not Controlled Demolition took place at the WTC. I joined because I suspect elements within our Government helped to murder 2,973+ people on 9/11, and I want those people to be held to account for their actions, and every despicable thing that has taken place in the name of that day to be reversed, and safeguards put in place within our Government so as to prevent this from ever happening again.
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Thanks, Jon
"Did you know that Fox News...Is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and part of a propaganda machine Joseph Goebbels would be proud of, yet people promote Carl Cameron's coverage of the Israeli spies as if it's a good source knowing what we know about Fox News."
Yes, i am fully aware of the ownership of Fox News. Murdoch is definitely a Goebbels for the current US administration. I guess that's why the Carl Cameron story was suppressed. It was a miracle that it got produced in the first place. Aren't you curious why the US let apparent foreign spies with multiple connections to 9/11 go free and clear? If not, why not?
"From someone that follows the news, and collects it to post, I have found the Boston Globe to be one of the "better" "news" organizations within this country. For whatever that is worth."
Sure, you've convinced me; that picture is definitely a great argument that I should start reading the Boston Globe. LOL.
"This very argument shows one thing. We need a new investigation. Period. Why can't that be our focus? Why can't people promote that idea on the television, etc... that is the point of this blog. I did not sign up to debate whether or not Controlled Demolition took place at the WTC. I joined because I suspect elements within our Government helped to murder 2,973+ people on 9/11, and I want those people to be held to account for their actions, and every despicable thing that has taken place in the name of that day to be reversed, and safeguards put in place within our Government so as to prevent this from ever happening again."
I guess because people would like ALL the perps rounded up, not just the rogue elements of our government. It's important to know who OUR government is working for -- it sure as shit ain't us! I'm just so _shocked_ that you don't seem to care about these loose threads...
Cheers,
E
I really wish people...
Would actually start to read through my blogs on 911Blogger.com, and my threads on yourbbsucks.com. When you're done, please come back and let me know if you think I "don't seem to care about these loose threads" or if I'm anti-Controlled Demolition. As a matter of fact, please let me know if I've missed anything in the last 5 years (besides pods, tv fakery, mini-nukes, holograms, cgi, etc...)
While you're at it, read through the postings in my news section, and let me know if I missed anything.
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Allow me to present my case...
Let me summarize here very briefly my case, Jon, which even to 9/11 Truthers may sound like a “wacky conspiracy theory” if they have no background knowledge concerning it.
The two partners in the WTC leasing deal with the built-in “terrorism insurance clauses” were Larry Silverstein and Frank Lowy. Lowy is a former Golani Brigades commander and currently tearing up Israel so he can put one of his shopping mall projects on every spare square inch of land left. Despite these two gentlemen being the lowest bidders for the WTC lease, they were awarded it nonetheless in June 2001 by their long-time buddy Lewis Eisenberg, who is related to Shaul Eisenberg of Kroll, Inc. fame. Lewis Eisenberg was appointed in 1995 as head of the NJ/NY Port Authority by Christine Todd Whitman (remember her?). Eisenberg left his position at the Port Authority just after 9/11. Eisenberg, Silverstein, and Lowy are all long-time friends of Benjamin Netanyahu and Rupert Murdoch. See the connections starting to form here?
As we know from several employees of Fiduciary Trust like Scott Forbes and other companies at the WTC, for several weeks before 9/11, as well as the weekend just before 9/11, it was by order of the NY/NJ Port Authority that called for evacuation drills and had people coming in and out of the buildings to install “new internet wiring.” At this time there was an electrical grid shutdown for select floors, and all electronic key passes and cameras were turned off for the installation of this “new wiring.”
On 9/11, employees of Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, NJ -- Yaron Shmuel, Omer Marmari, Paul Kurzberg, Sivan Kurzberg, and Oded Ellner -- were arrested by NJ State Police in separate incidents. The vehicles they were driving, as well as other Urban Moving Systems trucks, subsequently tested positive for explosives, but all the explosives were no longer in the trucks. I wonder were they went to?
The Assistant U.S. Attorney General in charge of criminal investigations at this time was Michael Chertoff, whose mother was one of Mossad’s original agents in the late 1940s. As you know, Chertoff is now head of the DHS Gestapo. All these afore-mentioned Mossad operatives, were allowed to leave the country after 9/11 with no charges, investigations, or questioning by the FBI, under Chertoff’s direct orders. Dominic Suter, the Israeli owner of Urban Moving Systems was also allowed to disappear back to Israel with no questions asked. Does any of this or any of these “coincidental” connections look suspicious to you? To say Mossad was involved in the wiring of those buildings, the “shock-and-awe” demolition of which was the central event of 9/11, is not as “crazy” as you may think if you look at the evidence and the trail of many, many breadcrumbs. We now know beyond a reasonable doubt that three WTC buildings were brought down on 9/11 by controlled demolition. I am merely saying that it is time for 9/11 Truth researchers to start putting together the next piece of this case. This of course is the most dangerous of all the pieces, and I can fully understand why someone would just want to say the buildings were brought down by CD, we need a new investigation, and leave it at that, but in order to bring closure to the 9/11 Families and the entire country, we need to find out exactly who authorized, supervised, and executed the operation. Yes, Rumsfeld, et al were also involved, but these other folks were too, and they need to be brought out from the shadows and exposed for the murderous criminals they are. Lewis Eisenberg is just cavorting around New York, and no one seems to bring up his highly possible connections to all of this. Larry Silverstein is not the “lone gunmen” in all of this. This is how I am supporting the cause of the 9/11 Families. This is also why I stress that we need to educate people about the difference between Zionists and Jewish folks because “the Jews” did not orchestrate 9/11, but the Zionists, both American and Israeli certainly did, and are up to their eyeballs in this horrible crime. The Zionist perpetrators of this crime would certainly love it if everyone started taking this information and saying, “Hey, the Jews did 9/11.” I do not want innocent people blamed for this, but I do think we need to start lifting up the rocks these creatures are concealed under.
Thanks for an informative post.
If I were writing your concluding sentences, I would use "Zionists" or "some Zionists" in place of "the Zionists." I believe that Zionism is a morally bankrupt racist ideology, but there are undoubtedly many Zionists, Israeli and American, who would not have endorsed 9/11 and who obviously had nothing to do with its planning or execution. This is not to say that Zionists who may have participated in 9/11 were not indeed motivated by Zionist beliefs, but they seem to be a subset, just as the neo-cons are a subset of the American right. In other words, I think it is appropriate to refer to them as Zionists, but not THE Zionists.
I understand your points,
but as you will notice, I was constructing or trying to construct a "balanced phrase" for illustrative purposes, i.e. "The Jews did not do 9/11, but The Zionists did," and then I tried to clarify the balance of this generally stated phrase by saying "the Zionist perpetrators of this crime." Sorry if I was not more clear on this, but your comments are constructive. Thanks Casseia. I'm actually working on a large article on this topic with lots of detailed info and references and such. This was just a short summary for Jon to check out, so he could see that I wasn't just making all these comments off the cuff or on the fly. I love when I get accused of being a "conspiracy theorist" by "conspiracy theorists." Pretty funny, huh?
Yes, I understand...
I think from a "writerly" perspective it also works to say "The Jews didn't do 9/11, but Zionists did." IMO, losing the exactitude of the parallel forms is worth it for the trade-off in meaning as I describe above. But I'm conservative that way.
Speaking of funny, I have been castigated by my local group of real-life 9/11 activists for insisting on precise language in this area (I'm a political correctness Nazi) and then at 9/11 blogger I have been called an anti-Semite and even a Holocaust denier (a Nazi Nazi). Mwahahaha.
Thanks, Lazlo. Fantastic
Thanks, Lazlo.
Fantastic post. The Silverstein/Netanyahu connection is new to me. Also the Chertoff/Mossad connection.
Maybe in the future we can start a topic that links to source material for all of the "people" connections that circumstantially link the perpetrators.
We can use that to develop another topic where the connections are plotted, showing relationships and activities in a user friendly manner. The best result (s)could be a great tool in prosecuting this thing.
We might as well get some work done while we're talking about it.
They talk every Sunday
According to a Ha'aretz interview with Lucky Larry, he and Netanyahu talk on the phone every Sunday. These two, along with Lewis Eisenberg, Frank Lowy, and Rupert Murdoch are all tight, long-time friends. Also check out a company called PTech for more of these interesting connections. Did you know that the concept of "the War on Terror" is a construct invented by Netanyahu in 1988? Everything you see now was planned long ago. If anything, you must admit these creatures have a lot of patience.
PTech
Ruppert started me on the PTech trail. I've dug deeper and found some very interesting info.
As far as the patience and planning goes, they've been patient for many decades. 9/11 may not have been specifically planned 30 years ago, but a catalyzing event has always been on the menu.
And Bibi Netanyahu's daddy
And Bibi Netanyahu's daddy was Yoni (Yonaton) - took part in the USS Liberty attack.
E
Excellent, Lazlo, I'm looking forward to your In-depth Report!
This Nexus of Zionists and Nazis, or "Zionazis" controlling the 3 primary constituants in the real Axis of Evil - US, Britain, Israel, is coming into pretty sharp focus for those of us who have been researching the New World Order for a while and starting to connect the dots on who pulls the strings above Government, Media, Banking, and Corporate Conglomerations. Here's a flag to represent the Real Axis of Evil:
I agree Israel as a country
I agree Israel as a country does shitty detestable things, I agree that Israel’s Mossad clearly played a part in 9/11, I disagree profoundly though with the rabid focus some people put on "Zionists" and the implication that it's all the "Jews". This type of crap damages 9/11 Truth as the perps would love, and actually do try very hard, to tars us as anti-Semite holocaust denying kooks.
"Played a part" is a HUGE understatement
The media and disinfo artists purposefully confuses the Zionist issue with the Judaism thing in order to program people to react emotionally whenever anybody wants to point out the DOCUMENTED extent of Zionist influence in the US. So, your nonsense about "anti-Semite holocaust denying kooks" is simply your programmed reaction at work, exactly how they want you to think.
Look, stating the truth is not a "rabid focus on Zionists", as if there was no valid reason to look in that direction. Lazlo in a post that I was responding to, gave just a small tip of the ice berg of Zionist connections to just ONE event - 9/11. Please read it, if you haven't yet. Then, realize that this Zionist influence extends accross many other crucial events throughout recent history. Just look into the creation of the Federal Reserve. Pick just about any major war and critical event in the last 100 years - the Russion Revolution, the rise of Hitler...ad infinitim... hell, just type "Rothschild" indo Google and see what comes up!
Just consider a simple fact: 12 of 14 top Neocons in the Bush Administration are Zionists. Google it! Several of them even have DUEL ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP:
Paul Wolfowitz
Elliot Abrams
David Wurmser
Lewis Libby
Richard Perle
And ALL the other Neocons have important ties and involvement in Zionism. For example,
Douglas Faith - Managing Attorney for Feith & Zell, P.C. (a merger with an Israeli law firm who now deals with reconstruction contracts coming out of Iraq) Absoulte Zionist. Feith and Zell was Douglas Feith and Marc Zell a man who moved his family to an Israel settlement he is a Zionist Israeli Settler. Marc Zell lives in the Jewish settlement Alon Shevut in the West Bank. I don't even have time to list all the other Zionist connections to the Neocons. Research it yourself, if you really want to know what's going on. Unless you would rather now know. In that case, there is s term for that - Intentional Ignorance
And we're barely getting started! You have a lot to learn about Zionism. Do some more homework. And, PLEASE STOP CONFUSING JEWS WITH ZIONISTS.
9/11 is the event we are talking about
Propounding your grand theory of Zionism as the root of evil through recent history has the exact effect that Dem Bruce Lee Styles said. If I were in Mossad, I would be happy you were saying this, because it turns people off of considering Israeli involvement in 9/11. That's the reality, and if people have been programmed with a reaction as you say, that's all the more reason to be more subtle about it. Your flag is far from subtle.
This is the education process
If Zionist Israeli-American Neocons are behind all the horrors of the Cheney-Bush administration and you know nothing of the true history of Israel, the Middle East or what Zionism is, you will not be able to correctly and clearly understand 9/11 and its greater global context. Discussing these topics intelligently and without ignorant racist hyperbole is not at all off-topic to 9/11 Truth. I am not suggesting by any means that we begin teaching people about 9/11 Truth by jumping into these controversial, emotional button-pushing subjects, but simply because it may offend some people, neither should we sweep them under the rug either. If we do, we can then call ourselves the "9/11 Half-Truth Movement" or the "9/11 Only Palatable Truths Movement." Call up Dr. Steven Jones. He knows and understands all these things. I am trying to help all of you with this information so you can better understand the underlying elements to this multi-levelled global intelligence operation that is being run down on you. I am not trying to incite racist hatred (like the Zionists are so fond of doing). Who told you that The Truth was going to be sweet and pleasant?
I wasn't concerned about your post
I thought you made a good case for involvement of Silverstein, the Port Authority, etc., and did not have a problem with your use of the term "Zionist." Silverstein and the Port Authority have to be involved in a major way, if not in the planning and execution, at the very least in the cover up. I think the case can be made without pushiing the buttons you speak of, because the reality is that accusations of anti-Semitism are an effective way of discrediting us. I thought Keenan's flag was too provocative.
I disagree with you about the remote control planes, and I assume you disagree with me about faked videos.
I respectfully agree to disagree with the no planes hypothesis
but I respect your concern and efforts to find out the truth behind this crime, and some of the people involved in this, who also control major media outlets have as their motto -- "Thou shalt wage war through deception." They also wage war through DIVISION and are experts at that. It is part of their training in psy-ops.
Don't even try to agree with
Don't even try to agree with me "Ningen", you probably do work for Mossad. "Jews did it" trash is in exactly the same disinfo camp as "no planes". The Israeli scumbags who cheered on the death of people as they jumped out of the buildings instead of dying of smoke inhalation and fire broke the Ten Commandments a long time I'd imagine. These people, and their bosses in power structure, aren’t real Jews period.
DBLS, No one is saying
DBLS, No one is saying "the Jews did 9/11." You haven't read a word I or anyone else here has said, have you? Calm down and read carefully. The whole point of my posts is to try to help you discern between Judaism and Zionism so when these things come up, and they will, you as an educated 9/11 Truther can intelligently explain these things in a rational historical context. Be intelligent, not emotional. Emotions shut down your critical thinking process, my brother.
You are disruptive
Even when I agree with you, and am not talking about the faked videos, you attack me.
Thank you Keenan for the perspective
Like the terms "conspiracy theorist" or "anti-Semite," the term "holocaust denier" is another loaded and purposefully exploited term. I have seen no one who denies that a type of holocaust event was perpetrated upon European Jewry, but there is a lot of research that would indicate that the 6 million number has been exaggerated for political and emotional effect. That 6 million number, by the way, is taken from a Talmudic prophecy which would seemingly call into suspect the number itself. So, in this regard, the proper term for these researchers would be "Holocaust Revisionist," just as we are "9/11 history revisionists." If you are in the 9/11 truth movement, you are an historical revisionist. You are not a "9/11 Denier"
As it is well known that the Zionist plan is to systematically execute or enslave the Arab world in order to build the "Greater Israel," the Zionists are the world's greatest anti-Semites, for the Arabs actually make up the majority of Semitic peoples. Zionists think that Arabs and Goyim are stupid dogs, and thus Zionism, like Nazism, is a racist ideology. If you think that Zionist = Jewish and everytime I mention Zionism, you think I am talking about Judaism, we will not be able to have an intelligent conversation about crucial things. There is an international organization of orthodox Rabbis called Naturei Karta who are Jewish anti-Zionists. They consider Zionism to be the greatest enemy to Judaism and regularly burn the flag of Israel in front of the UN and AIPAC offices in New York. Check out their website here http://www.nkusa.org/ and you can read there about the evils of Zionist ideology, history of the modern Middle East, the crimes of the state of Israel, and the Palestinian holocaust. BTW, as my mother is Jewish, that also technically makes me Jewish as well. I support morality, not Israel and its deceptions. My Jewish friends were not involved in 9/11, but Zionists who work for Bushco were. Really, take Keenan's advice and do the research that they fear you will do. You will come away very surprised.
I agree, I know all about
I agree, I know all about the distinction between Jews and Zionists. But I also know how these f*ckers would love for us to go screaming "Zionist" this "Zionist" that all over the place. Alex Jones gets called a Zionist for just recognising this fact, the Loose Change guys get the same treatment. Eric Hufschmid is a disinfo assclown who has tried his absolute hardest to get the 9/11 Truth Movement into this "Zionist are the root of everything" quicksand;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1no01xCyo
Lets recognise the criminality of the state of Israel and the racist, mad ideology of some of the people who run that country. But lets also recognise that shouting about "Zionism" all over the place is what these perps want us to be doing because it's so easy to then falsely lump us in with Holocaust deniers etc.
Who is shouting Zionist all over the place?
As I just said above, I do not recommend you bring up these topics with virgin, newbies fresh out of the Matrix Pods. I was trying to inform you fellow Truthers at this site ONLY (my colleagues in the truth struggle), not running around everywhere screaming. "the Zionists are coming." I understand the gross misunderstandings that the public has about these things, and that is why I was trying to inject some real info into the discussion here. Most Americans, perhaps 95%, know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Middle Eastern history, religions, languages, ethnicities etc. etc., and that is why the MSM so easily pulls off their slick little lies with impunity regarding anything having to do with the Middle East. People nonsensically think that the Jews and Palestinians have been fighting for thousands of years! Originally, in the times of the Crusades (13th - 15th centuries), the Muslims in Jerusalem used to offer protection to the Jews from the Christian Crusaders' European pogroms and the Spanish Crown's pogroms. You certainly don't hear that on CNN, do you? Perhaps we should have a 9/11 Blog site for info virgins? I was under the impression you folks here understood all of this stuff. Is the term Neo-con just a cover term for Zionist? Is a black man a coloured person? If I say National Socialist, do you understand I am referring to the German Nazi party? I understand you are worried about what the media thinks about us, but I will tell you honestly, don't water down the truth to coddle them. They HATE OUR GUTS because we are trying to shut down their game of global domination. Do you care if the Nazis hate you? Fuck the Nazis, who cares what they think.
Hufschmid IS a real ass-wipe, but you still aren't getting it
Hell, if EVERYBODY is part of the "Zionist criminal network" according to Hufschmid, then I guess he must be right some of the time. Sheesh! Yea, Hufschmid is such a blatent disinfo artist/provocateur, he ranks right up there with Jim Hoffman in my book of Transparent Psy-Op Agents trying to divide and discredit us. Interesting how he was out there so fast and furiously with the 9/11 thing, and now is like a booby trap poisening both the 9/11 truth movement, AND the anti-Zionist movement.
However, your statememt that, "Lets recognise the criminality of the state of Israel and the racist, mad ideology of some of the people who run that country", and then quietly drop the Zionist thing shows that you still aren't getting it. There is MUCH more going on here. Israel not only controls the United States, Isreal brags of it and Senators and Presidents cower in fear. Have you read the letter by former congressman James Aboureszk? Have you heard any politician in any office in the United States actually oppose Israel or defend Palestinian rights? Let alone call for the dismantling of the State of Israel? Many elected officials opposed the apartheid state of South Africa, why don't any oppose Israel? Think about it. The Zionist thing goes way broader and deeper than your comment above. The way that Israel controls politicians and public opinion in the U.S. has been extensively documented.
I suggest you read two articles, one short, one long, from two sources who would appear to know of what they speak:
The first:
"The Israel Lobby"
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
The second:
"War Launched to Protect Israel - Bush Adviser"
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23078
In fact, in this second short one, a quote suffices:
"Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel," Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of 9/11 and the future of the war on the al-Qaeda terrorist organisation.
Also, FYI, Zelikow is no ordinary "advisor" to Bush because, as Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission, he was given the task of carrying off the greatest White Wash in political history, and his bio would seem to justify it:
Prof. Zelikow's area of academic expertise is the creation and maintenance of, in his words, "public myths" or "public presumptions," which he defines as "beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community." In his academic work and elsewhere he has taken a special interest in what he has called "'searing' or 'molding' events [that] take on 'transcendent' importance and, therefore, retain their power even as the experiencing generation passes from the scene
Now, think about everything that has happened since 9/11 and realize that all of it could not have happened without 9/11. Use your imagination and think about where the world is likely to be in 10 years if things continue on as they are at present.
Think about Zelikow, himself a Zionist, and his "creation and maintenance of public myths" and the fact that he has stated that the Iraq invasion was by the USA, FOR Israel, and it only happened because 9/11 happened, the official story about which is clearly a "public myth".
Then, if you really want to see what all this fuss is about Zionist influence of world events, here's some deep history to research. I guarantee that if you take the time to actualy research this, it will blow your mind at just how deep this Zionist conspiracy of world events actually goes.
The Controversy of Zion by DOUGLAS REED
http://knud.eriksen.adr.dk/Controversybook/
http://www.kasjo.net/reeedcontrov.pdf
The above is a big read. If you want to start with a more condensed version, a shorter read, have a look at this:
The Myth of Tiny, Little Israel: Zionist Tentacles Everywhere
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3940.htm
Know thy enemy, if you want to stand a chance of ever coming up with a successful strategy, that is.
Hey Keenan
Super well done post and writing job. See ya latah, bro. Time fer bed. Too much writing for today.
More documentation
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon: "I don't care what the American people think, we own congress."
During an argument between the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, Peres said that Isralis' policies of continued violence might "turn the US against us". To this Sharon retorted: "EVERY TIME WE DO SOMETHING, YOU TELL ME AMERICANS WILL DO THIS AND WILL DO THAT. I WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING VERY CLEAR: DON'T WORRY ABOUT AMERICAN PRESSURE ON ISRAEL; WE, THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA. AND THE AMERICANS KNOW IT." -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon October 3, 2001 (IAP News)
Letter from James Abourezk, former US Senator from South Dakota on the Israel Lobby dated December 2006
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/senabourekonIsraelinfluence04dec06.shtml
""I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear—fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress—at least when I served there—have any affection for Israel or for its Lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I’ve heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they’re pushed around by the Lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the Lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the Lobby’s animosity by making their feelings public."
Watch this video
Not so cool facts about Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4
Listen to this:
Christopher Jon Bjerknes Interviews Jim Condit, Jr.
May 23, 2007
http://www.jewishracism.com/Condit24May2007.mp3
More important history of Zionism:
The Hidden History of Zionism
By Ralph Schoenman
http://theunjustmedia.com/Jewish%20Zionists/The%20Hidden%20History%20of%...
Timeline of Zionist Terror from
The UN Report Prepared for Ralphe Bunche from a UN committee 01 October 1948
http://www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html
9/11 must be viewed within this wider context of the Zionist program in order to really understand its significance. If you want to read a book on 9/11 that puts it in this fuller context, get "9/11 The Ultimate Truth"by Laura Knight-Jadczyk, Joe Quinn
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1897244223
http://www.qfgpublishing.com/product_info.php?products_id=52
"In the years since the 9/11 attacks, dozens of books have sought to explore the truth behind the official version of events that day - yet to date, none of these publications has provided a satisfactory answer as to WHY the attacks occurred and who was ultimately responsible for carrying them out.
Taking a broad, millennia-long perspective, Laura Knight-Jadczyk's 9/11: The Ultimate Truth uncovers the true nature of the ruling elite on our planet and presents new and ground-breaking insights into just how the 9/11 attacks played out.
9/11: The Ultimate Truth makes a strong case for the idea that September 11, 2001 marked the moment when our planet entered the final phase of a diabolical plan that has been many, many years in the making. It is a plan developed and nurtured by successive generations of ruthless individuals who relentlessly exploit the negative aspects of basic human nature to entrap humanity as a whole in endless wars and suffering in order to keep us confused and distracted to the reality of the man behind the curtain.
Drawing on historical and genealogical sources, Knight-Jadczyk eloquently links the 9/11 event to the modern-day Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
...
The new Second Edition of 9/11: The Ultimate Truth has been updated with new material detailing the real reasons for the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, the central role played by agents of the state of Israel in the attacks, and how the arrogant Bush government is now forced to dance to the Zionists' tune."
I can't recommend this book enough!
The ultimate plan of the Zionists:
In his Complete Diaries, Vol.II, Page 711, Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish state stretches: "From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates".
Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on July 9, 1947:
"The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon."
I am suspicious of everyone
Hi Keenan,
I have to ask you whether you have read that author's other book, "The Secret History of the World and How to Get Out Alive." From the description of the book (on the website of its publisher, redpillpress.com) the book looks replete with mysticism. I am very skeptical of anyone who tells us that he or she alone has access to supernatural secrets. This book makes me skeptcal of the "9/11 ultimate truth" book.
I am not a believer in any kind of religion, so replacing one dogma with another doesn't seem very helpful to me. That said, i will try to take a look at the "ultimate truth" book when I get a few extra bucks.
By the way, I don't think you need to invoke Herzl -- the PNAC documents do nicely and oil as a justification is already apparent. The pipeline that went from northern Iraq to Haifa, which was closed in 1948, was recently reopened. The irony is that Israel is now selling fuel to the US troops in Iraq!
E
Good point, but consider the bigger picture
As far as the oil as a justification of the MIddle East wars, certainly oil plays a major part, but it is not enough to explain the full context of US policy in the Middle East. If oil alone drove U.S. foreign policy, the U.S. would ditch Israel so fast it would make your head spin. The main reason the U.S. is now hated in the Arab world is the U.S.'s support of Israel's genocidal policies. Israel gives the U.S. very little in exchange for this. What it gives is mostly negative: 'if you don't support us we will overthrow you.'
Why do you think Bush II lets Israel do whatever it wants? Because the last president who stood up to Israel was Bush I when he held up loan guarantees to Israel to try to get them to suspend construction of illegal settlements. Within a year he was voted out of office. How do you think Bush I went from 70% approval rating to losing an election? This is someone, after all, very skilled at stealing elections, and he lost to Clinton? Bush II vowed not to make any of the mistakes his father did. And he got reelected without really winning two elections!
Understanding the Zionist's ultimate hundred year plan for the genocide of the Arab people within the area of "The Promised Land" - between the Nile and Euphrates River - is a must to really know what the ultimate game plan is that is unfolding right now. All this talk about "incompetence" of the Bush Administraion in Iraq is just a clever cover story to explain what does not make much sense on the surface of what they are doing. And realize that the Bush Administration isn't even fully in charge, either - they are dancing to the tune of of the Zionists. Iraq does not need to be pushed to the level of instability, unrest and upheaval that it is being forced by Zionist agents, working both inside and outside the US miltary occupation, for control of the oil. In fact, the oil output of Iraq continues to be well below what it would be if the US would have just settled for a quick resolution in Iraq, but that is not what the Zionists want. Realize that there is MUCH more going on behind the scenes than even the so-called anti-war movement thinks is going on.
Yes, I have the author's other book "The Secret History". I, like you, was very skeptical about the mystical stuff, which is not the dominant or bulk of the book anyway. What made me decide to give these people a chance was that they were so thorough and accurate on other subjects that I've looked into, like 9/11. They approach everything in a very scientific way, even though they do explore certain mystical subjects that might scare some people away.
They are not espousing any kind of religion or dogma. They are probably some of the most undogmatic people I know of. They do not claim to have exclussive access to supernatural secrets, and even when they share some of the results of the channeling experiments they've been doing since the mid 90s, they re-iterate that we should not take any of this information as gospel, but just treat it as more data, and to test it against what transpires in the 3 dimensional world. They take a scientific and skeptical approach to the mystical topics, which so far to me has seemed very balanced. They remain skeptical but open-minded about this other realm, which Laura herself has encountered over several decades through her work in psychotherapy and hypnosis, among other things.
The point is, and it is one which Laura and the other folks at Quantum Future Group confront head on rather than shy away from like most "scientists", that there is MUCH more going on behind the scenes than what we are conditioned to believe in the Western Meterialist lense we are programmed with. The "New Age" has supposedly taken on these other channels of knowledge, but in ways that are too often unscientific, superstitious, and replete with sharletans and commercialistic nonsense, and disinformation. Laura is very critical of the "New Age" movement, you will find. The point is to be scientific and skeptical, but at the same time open minded with these non-traditional sources of knowledge, if you really want to get a handle on what is going on in the world, and what our true history is.
Have a listen to some of their podcasts to get more of an idea of their methodology so see if their approach seems valid to you.
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/dl.php?link=pentagonstrike,co,uk...
Main page of their alternative news website:
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org
I'll check it out
Okay, Keenan, thank you for all the information. I'll stay open minded about their stuff and check out the links your provided. I appreciate your response and the effort you put into all your posts on this blog.
The stuff you said about Bush I makes sense - I didn't know that he had made some enemies by threatening full support of the settlements. It was very curious how his approval rating took a nose dive. Bush II's is pathetic, yet doesn't hurt him a bit. Guess it does not matter if you steal elections.
E
Shouldn't this sort of graphic
get one banned from 911blogger?
why? (this ought to be rich)
why? (this ought to be rich)
A tour de force, Lazio!
I'd love to read the finished product.
E
can't wait either
ryan dawson got me started down this road. not to take anything away from his incredible research and work, but the grammatical errors and misspellings turn a lot of people off. lazlo, you seem to be a gifted writer who pays attention to detail and to top it off, you have a sense of humor and take criticism really well (something that many people here get all wound up about). it's good to see your sensible posts here at 911blogger. now get back to work on that report, gosh darnnit!
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
same here. impressive post
same here. impressive post Lazlo.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
The message is
The message is understandably different in a scheduled speaking engagement. 9 times out of 10, although you may be presenting new, valuable, and relevant information, you're also preaching to the choir.
In your speech you'll be promoting and supporting a premise with specific findings and relevant data. That's excellent and that's the level of detail that we ultimately need in order to present a substantiated, unequivocable case for prosecution.
But I believe that the OP is refering to spreading the word among the uninitiated, the uninformed, and those whose politial and patriotic convictions won't be stirred by repeating talking points that have been dismissed and deterred by our corporate media.
Kudos, BTW, for planning to engage the NAU issue. I've stated before that addressing the 9/11 issue without also facing it's root causes is parallel to fixing one crack in a building while the entire foundation is collapsing. The NAU is intimately connected to 9/11 and to the goals of global economic regionalization - which is the foundational root behind works published by Brzezinski and PNAC. That's the component that Corsi has fallen short on - as much as I admire his work on the topic. He draws parallels to the EU yet he fails to emphasize the broader scope.
Thank you for writing what I
Thank you for writing what I have been feeling for a while now. Great article!
Comment removed (replied to
Comment removed (replied to wrong comment!)
It was avoidable
I think we have to hammer home what we know to be true.
I think a lot of people will say, "yes, its sad what happed to the victims, but what can be done? It was unavoidable. We were attacked."
NOT SO.
If you know it was an inside job, then you know it was avoidable. That is important.
This is what I bring up
I start out w/ proof of govt. complicity/facilitation of the attacks
--an FBI informant living w/ Al Hazmi & Al Midhar in San Diego,
--(likely) military training for hijackers,
--John O'Neil (you know the story)
--Anthony Shaffer being threatened not to investigate Atta via Able Danger & the infamous yellow post-it note over the picture
--Dave Frasca's thwarting competent FBI field agents from investigating the hijackers/plot (Coleen Rowely, Michael Maltbie, Ken Williams & Phoenix memo, Robert Wright & Vulgar Betrayal),
--FBI Operative Randy Glass's interview w/ Sander Hicks admitting the Intel Community knew about the attacks and allowed them to happen on purpose, and Indira Singh's explosive evidence regarding --the Saudi-terror financed (and likely CIA-front) corporation P-tech & their designing the surveillance-intervention software for NORAD, FAA, & the Air Force,
--FBI translator Sibel Edmond's exposure to pre-9/11 data indicating high-level govt. complicity, seems to me there is strong evidence for an actual conspiracy.
--there is only evidence for about 13 hijackers being on the said hijacked planes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizers_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks and their identities are even in question. I follow w/ the living hijackers routine, mostly about the Moroccan, Waleed.
I also bring up how the 9/11 Commission is lying about Atta's timeline post Dec. 2000 & Atta likes strippers, had a white girlfriend, did cocaine, and met w/ German friends in the Florida Keys, and if I can fit it in, the NORAD War Games, my graduate professor at American Univ. teaching a Theory of Conflict & Violence class was very interested when I broached the issue of live-fly hijacking War Games, inserted radar blips etc.
I almost never bring up the controlled demo theories, mainly b/c I think the verdict is still out (and yes, I've gone over hours/days/weeks worth of researching to come to that conclusion, I'm ambivalent, give me a break). If anything I might bring up WTC-7, for obvious reasons (the Naudet tape is the veritable Zapruder film for the 9/11 Conspiracy). I'm not sure what I believe w/ regards to the CD theory, that is why I don't bring it up.
Hello Tiguhs
If you believe the jury that brings the verdict is still out on the controlled demolition of the WTC towers, then I highly recommend you, as well as everyone else here, including Jon, pick up a copy of Professor Griffin's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking" and carefully read the third chapter where the NIST (National Institute for Scientific Treason) Report is basically torn to shreds. Dr. Shyamsundar should have his B.A., M.A. and Ph.D. taken away from him. Those fake scientists who decided to aid and abet the 9/11 murderers need to go to Federal Prison ASAP, and if you read the book, you will understand what I am saying.
As an architect...
As an architect, appalled at the silence of A/E professionals, I'm glad that the CD story is gaining ground. Once the public understands the nature of the crime, more attention will go to the families who were the first to lose in a most personal way. Your work, Jon, is essential and should not to be diminished in any way, but I don't feel it will be successful until this country comprehends the explosive crime to steel, concrete, and flesh. Thank you Jon for your efforts and humanity.
Here's a technique that
Here's a technique that works very well for individuals or small groups.
Once the subject is up and running, no matter how it began, watch people's faces and listen to what they say.
When the right moment arrives (use your intuition), simply ask one person what their objection to 9/11 Truth is.
They will tell you right out every time.
Then, USE THEIR OWN WORDS and repeat exactly what they just said. Example, So, you believe that "the US government would never do something like that to its own people," is that right?
They will look back at you with a serious or worried expression almost every time. The expression is a serious one because this is what they really believe.
Once they have confirmed that that is indeed what their objection is, just answer it in the way that seems best to you.
Be sure to use their own words when repeating their objection as this resonates on deep emotional levels and shows them that you are really listening.
Most people have just one or two objections. If they have a second one, repeat the above.
Once you have answered their objections, the door is wide open. Use your intuition again. Take the discussion in a direction that interests them.
Objections stated openly are a good thing. They show that the person is rational and open to discussion.
I have had very good success with this technique and recommend it above all others.
________________
JFK on secrecy and the press
Signs.
Jon you make a very good point about the signs of the present and past. I think a lot more attention needs to be paid to this.
The impression I get is that a lot of people are turned off from our movement when they see "USA did 9/11" or "9/11 Was An Inside Job" etc. For many this is just too unfathomable to believe, and their initial emotional reaction will lead them further away from the truth and our movement. We need to bring them along with baby steps, not direct accusations.
Our signs should consist of "9/11 Truth Now" and other statements simply demanding the truth and a new independent investigation. If we continue to make harsh accusations with our signs, I don't believe we will get anywhere. It is the new investigation that will indeed get us somewhere, and once held, then we can look at key areas in our military and government for responsibility.
If Johnny Wave were holding a "9/11 Was An Inside Job" sign rather than a "9/11 Truth Now" sign, he would have gotten a much more negative reaction and I sincirely believe he may have been made an example of by the military. Ex. charging him with Mutiny.
This is just my opinion but I think it would be best if we all put some consideration into this.
Complacency is the demise of us all, the power is with the people.
Thank for This Blog
As a long time reader of 9/11 Blogger, I respect your opinion very much, Mr. Jon Gold/ I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments stated above. The most amazing thing in this movement is that we have to the power to hold these bastards accountable. We just have to know who they are first! That's why such things as the San Diego Citizen's Grand Jury, Who Killed John O'Neill, Richard Andrew Grove's Project Constellation are so important. these bastards have names. If we can build up a legal case against them with hard evidence, some brave soul should try and bring them justice. That's is the major flaw in the Controlled Demolition argument. It does not include who is responsible for it. Well, I'd like to change that. That's all I am here for. To hold them accountable. To name their names. To expose the hard truth of 9/11.
PJ
Ann Arbor Truth and Freedom
http://annarbor911truth.com
We just want to POINT SOME FINGERS
I just think there are important political fingers we can point. The physics are perfectly valid and are very compelling to many. But where do they go from there. Many people will not immediately conjure up the implied involvement of many Government offices when initially hearing about CD. CD does imply different Goverment offices, but at first, I think many people will help with a focus towards who is likely guilty. That is why we are missing out on DRILLS. This is related to all area's of the attack, including CD. Drills are an all encompassing subject. And guess who the drills point to....a big fat finger at a well resourced Defense Department(who has access to all kinds of public and private offices). We don't need to argue our credibility of physics knowledge or be subject to the logical fallacy of being an unqualified authority. We can site easy references with immediately obvious implications of guilt. Thus we force political JUDGMENT, not open speculation.
http://www.thesonsofliberty.us
i'll point a finger
right at the f'ing mossad working with our corrupt gov't
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
It is a fairly weak position to take
by saying that we just don't know who was behind 9/11, and then beg the government and their media slaves to please, please start a new investigation. It's for the families. It's for the kids. The perps are laughing right now and hoping we will adopt this position. Conservatively speaking, with about 400-500 pieces of "coincidental" or circumstantial evidence at our fingertips, any junior DA could bring this to trial tomorrow morning and subpoena most of the main perpetrators. We pretty much do know who was behind this, and as I mentioned above, I am working on a large research piece with many more names and connections you may not have heard about. This is all a very tangled web of international intelligence operatives, shadow corporations, and intelligence organizations. They never thought we would figure it all out, but they wuz wrong, and now they have to run in fear from the shadow of the gallows. If I were some of these folks, I would be really worried. Plea bargain confession deals with be forthcoming. Mark my word. They are frightened. Did you see the Ghouliani tapes?
Jon this shouldn’t be the
Jon this shouldn’t be the "Controlled Demolition Movement" I agree, other less sensational and perhaps more easily digested and persuadable points/issues do need to be focused on and presented more. That said the awareness of Building 7 is key and is driven by "Controlled Demolition", with all the initially sensationalistic and ridiculous notions it conjures up for anyone new to this. So I think it's a double-edged sword that backfires as much as it intends to damage 9/11 Truth. If this was the "Holograms/no planes/mini nukes/space beam" movement, like some disinfo accessory after the fact assclowns would like it to be, then yes we'd be in a lot of trouble. "Controlled Demolition"? Not so much. But I agree other rock solid issues that don’t get as much airtime do need to be pushed to the forefront, especially things like the plight of the family members and the piercing questions they are asking.
Questions like
WHO PUT THE EXPLOSIVES IN THOSE BUILDINGS AND KILLED MY BROTHER?
Your...
Brother died on 9/11? My condolences.
Donate To 9/11 First Responders
thanks
we all lost loved ones that day.
__________________________
http://anti-neocons.com/
For some reason...
Individuals are taking this thread as a "shot" against CD, and it's not. It's a suggestion, and nothing more. More like a plea.
Donate To 9/11 First Responders
THERE'S A REASON
There's a reason, and a good one, that pointing to evidence for CD's is the first point brought up by people in the "truth movement," -- that reason is that this is what probably got THEM convinced in falsity of the official story. From there, one proceeds to other concepts.
What's the big deal?
Much ado about nothing.
Fucking troll bait, how does it work?? I'll bite.
CD worship by the Church caused the death of this movement by painting the entirety of it with the crazy brush among moderate, literate people. There is no ground to be gained once the Pentagon/CD morons swelled the ranks with misleading and inaccurate information. The "leaders" of the movement have UTTERLY FAILED to act responsibly and have often caused more harm to the movement than any of their shit-brained followers.
Do you think Richard Gage has made enough money off of this cause yet, or should we all pitch in to another pay-pal scam to get him on stage with more UFOlogists and jew haters?
ZBH is absolutely right here
All the fools running around claiming they know what happened didn't just shoot this movement in the foot, they shot it in the face. CD and it's money hungry psuedo-reps must be a real favorite among those involved with the actual crime of 9/11. Take your research and do whatever. If you jump from your theory, to claiming it's a fact (like saying, we KNOW), when it's just a theory, plus ask for money as some sort of "leader" of this "cause," you are far more detrimental to the truth outing than the worst debunker. The victims families are to nice and heartbroken to call you theorists out on it, so I will! You think everyone knowing that a 3rd building fell will create a new investigation? Well guess what, everyone knows and it sure as hell hasn't. I was more supportive of CD research when people were open-minded about it. When people spoke of CD as a potential THEORY, but kept it in a broader context of ACTUAL PROVABLE TANGIBLE FACTS, there was something to it. Now I see the CD takeover as the greatest failure ever for those seeking 9/11 justice. Great job proving what might have happened. Your A and E list of members ain't impressing anyone. The real victims and subsequent victims of post 9/11 policies hurt and die thanks to CD "theory as fact" mongers. There's no getting around that. Check yourself all who claim to KNOW!
Theory addicted fools rubbing their elaborate unprovable ideas in the faces of the victims families. I don't want anything to do with it. The truth movement is about the truth. Not your favorite most exciting idea of what might be the truth.
Wow reading back through this
5 years ago, I was way wrong about Tarpley, but I was right about how CD theory is not as useful as real facts. I have now learned that it is more than not as useful to the truth, it's downright detrimental. And OY VEY the deep anti-semitism in this thread HURTS.
ZBH, KDub and others
I do understand the point of this healthy and foresighted article. I am working on making my 9/11 activism much more well-rounded.
With that said, in my spare time I am a dedicated volunteer at ae911truth and wish to improve the group in more ways than one.
In your opinion: What is the most important things ae911truth.org could do this and next year to help the movement as a whole.
Thanks in advance for courteous and constructive comments!
Factionistas,
When I first learned that Richard Gage was was living off donations that caused me great concern. But now that I see he is working with David Ray Griffin, Ed Asner, Howard Cohen, and Frank Strasser it's just too much. They are using Actors and Artists for 9-11 Truth to solicit donations and volunteer labor for a project that is clearly for personal financial profit. Without a major correction on Gage's part Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth is blown.
Actors and Artists for 9-11 Truth is not valid. The twelve professional organizations function to centralize power to Griffin as seen at http://www.consensus911.org/. They are not valid if connected to him.
Paul
http://www.911truther.com/
http://www.911artists.com/
I don't understand the last few comments here at all.
While it's expected that the CD proposition will undergo some criticism, how exactly do you think the towers came down?
I also see AETruth and other groups getting out equally the message that the official collapse explanations are false - which they are. This is just as important as proposing an alternative theory.
As far as the feature film being planned, do you really expect it to produce profits?? If it did, don't you think the players would be putting those profits back into the cause?? You think this is going to be a money maker for their personal gain? WTF??
Mr. Nelson,
please take a closer look at what's going on there. Thank you.
Paul
Mr. 911artists
please stop posting embarrassing posts.