NIST Status Update on World Trade Center 7 Investigation

June 29, 2007

CONTACT: Michael E. Newman
(301) 975-3025

A team of scientists and engineers at the Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) that is investigating the collapse of New York City's World Trade Center 7 (WTC 7) building expects to release its draft report for public comment by the end of the year. WTC 7 was a 47-story office building adjacent to the WTC towers (WTC 1 and 2) that collapsed following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. WTC 7 collapsed later that afternoon.

NIST's investigation of WTC 7 includes an extremely complex analysis that incorporates detailed information about the building's structure and construction, as well as data about fires, damage sustained from falling WTC 1 debris and other technical factors to determine its probable collapse sequence.

"We are proceeding as quickly as possible while rigorously testing and evaluating a wide range of scenarios to reach the most definitive conclusion possible," said Shyam Sunder, WTC lead investigator for NIST. "The WTC 7 investigation is in some respects just as challenging, if not more so, than the study of the towers. However, the current study does benefit greatly from the significant technological advances achieved and lessons learned from our work on the towers."

The NIST investigation team initially worked simultaneously on both the WTC towers and WTC 7 collapses. In June 2004, the team shifted to full-time study of the towers to develop needed simulation methods and other research tools and to expedite completion of the WTC towers report. Work resumed on the WTC 7 study in October 2005.

The current NIST working collapse hypothesis for WTC 7 is described in the June 2004 Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (Volume 1, page 17, as well as Appendix L), as follows:

An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;

Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, as the large floor bays were unable to redistribute the loads, bringing down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and

Horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7, that were much thicker than the rest of the floors), triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, resulting in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

Updated information with the specific date for the public release of the NIST team's draft report will be posted on the WTC investigation Web site,

"diesel fuel tanks, no

"diesel fuel tanks, no controlled demo, blah blah blah". i can hear it now. notice the strain in trying to explain why the penthouse went. this is gonna be a farce, i cant wait until more intelligent people than myself rip it apart.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

research assignment anyone?

The diesel storage tanks will likely be held up as a reason for the WTC7 collapse. Shortly after (or was it before?) 9/11/01 i read an article in one of the local NYC papers that is relevant but not available on the internet. The article was about a judge chastising Ghouliani for being in violation of three successive court orders. The courts had ordered the diesel storage tanks in wtc7 be removed. The mayor obviously did not allow them to be removed, then the building was brought down, issue moot.

I've been meaning to get to a local library as that is what is needed to verify & detail the information. Maybe I will sometime, but if someone else has time that would be good too. It seems the info might be freshly relevant if NIST is starting to talk about wtc7.

search local nyc papers in for the whole year 2001, re:Giuliani, Court Orders, Contempt, Diesel Storage tanks, etc.

WTC 5 & 6

Question? Will they explain how wtc 5 & 6 which were directly below the north tower managed to withstand the entire mass of the North Tower falling directly on top of them? WTC 5 & 6 had to be professionaly demolished a few weeks after 9/11. This new NIST report will just be another obstacle to buy time for the culprits. Now, it seems they are just figuring out new ways to bide time until the public removes 9/11 from their minds. Don't they know yet that we will never forget because we have been woken.

yep, see my post below,

yep, see my post below, Giuliani put those tanks there for a reason if you ask me and that reason is becoming more and more obvious now.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Almost half of the diesel fuel

was recovered after the collapse in tanks that survived !
According to FEMA 20000 galons of 42000 galons was still in tanks after the collapse !
(taken from Hufschmid's Painful deceptions book)



Six years to write a report on the collapse? I don't think the

actual construction of the WTC took that long. NIST, why don't you just release your report at 12:01 pm on January 19, 2009. Then you won't have to be worried about being fired (or worse) by the 9/11 culprits.

"They took it from the top to the bottom, we're gonna take them from the bottom to the top." - Dan Wallace

great comment

puts it in perspective

They are desperate if "diesel fuel tanks" is the best pretext

they can come up with.

Buildings must be fitted with numerous, critically located explosives throughout to be imploded into their own footprints. Diesel tanks just can't do that. (Not to mention all the foreknowledge about WTC-7 coming down.)

Not to mention -- if diesel

Not to mention -- if diesel tanks are capable of causing a full implosion when flirting with small fires, does that mean that everyone forgot their existence in WTC7 when the decision was taken to locate the emergency bunker in the building?

The overarching theme of the 3 collapses seems to be:

1. D'oh! No one thought to take into account the effect of the fuel (jet fuel or diesel); and
2. Fuel is a wonderous, magical lava.

Fantastical thinking and incompetence theory writ large -- the very recipe the MSM feeds the masses to explain both 9/11 and all of the other jaw-dropping inexplicables of this administration.

Exactly, the WTC was already bombed by "terrorists" in 1993,

so then they allow volatile diesel tanks in WTC-7 for the emergency command center???

You Just

beat me to it. I just saw this on their website and skipped over to 911blogger to see if anyone had posted. Good catch. I'm really excited about them elaborating on "the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios". Still, they say they haven't found any evidence. Maybe we should show them some?

by "hypothetical blast

by "hypothetical blast scenarios" they likely mean fuel tanks stored there on the orders of Giuliani. convenient excuse but its not gonna work. i wonder why Giuliani made that decision though? hmm......

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

You're probably right

You're probably right, but after they said "hypothetical blast scenarios," they said "controlled demolition event". In terms of the context they're using it in, I'm assuming they're using them interchangeably. You're probably right, though, and they're probably won't really look into it, but who knows.

You're probably right

You're probably right, but after they said "hypothetical blast scenarios," they said "controlled demolition event". In terms of the context they're using it in, I'm assuming they're using them interchangeably. You're probably right, though, and they're probably won't really look into it, but who knows.

I guess

in a way this is a good sign... they are trying to officialy "debunk" CT in the WTC7 building. We got them scared and preoccupied. That's the way I read this, anyway.

edit: "let's give them enough rope to hang themselves" ;)

"911 was an Inside Job"

they know its a major weak

they know its a major weak point and i agree, they are scared and this is a good sign, especially based on how weak this press release is.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Should be interesting

As a recovering English major I always love an interesting work of fiction!

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91


"draft report"...."probable collapse" = we have no f#$%in clue, but we bet the majority of the public will buy it again if we just use words like "probable collapse"

the fact that the following paragraph was published, just blows my mind....

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

was this written by Jim Meigs lol

The Timing of its Release is Suspect...

Its not surprising that NIST is waiting to disclose this study until after Loose Change: Final Cut will be released. Now that they know that Dylan and Crew are "pretty much" locked in contractually to a Fall release, they have announced that the WTC 7 study will be released sometime this Winter. If the Final Cut is pushed back, expect NIST to do the same.

No doubt, they didn't want their report to be scrutinized in this film...

They also would like this study to be used by neoconservative talk show pundits to discredit LCFC. I can just hear them now: "See those conspiracy theorists are full of garbage... NIST just released their report on WTC 7 a month after the film was released... go back to sleep..."

So, you're saying...

.....that the NIST WTC7 Report being released before LCFC has a "low probability of occurance"?


when the truth

is finally revealed and their coverup is exposed, I'd love to force these morons to repay all the tax-dollars of ours they've wasted on lying to us...

That's the problem with this kind of fraud...

that money is locked up somewhere in Switzerland (with all City of London accounts naturally), the Caiman Islands (AbrahamCo.), or Saudi Arabia (bin Laden group) - most likely the third option I would assume. Witnessing the exposure of this fraud might have to be enough for now, a war crimes trial would be cherry, and a worthy punishment for this crime would merit an international celebration, even a holiday IMHO.

Determining the way our tax money is collected/distributed in the future, you know, the way the system is supposed to the work, will be the reward for exposing these neoCON traitors for the vile filth that who they are. Unfortunately, we've already been punished for America's corporate greed (see: 9/11 being the most recent dose of punishment they've doled on US).

FWITW, I'd personally LOVE to see the abolition of ALL MONEY...don't see it happening though!

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

wow, way to go NIST, its a HUGE first step

"This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements."

it is not their working hypothesis but it is good to see that they are actually considering it as a possibility considering the strange circumstances surrounding the collapse.

CONTACT: Alfred E. Newman

CONTACT: Michael E. Newman
(301) 975-3025

please everybody

please everybody, let's be civil to the guy, I wonder if this poor ol'chap knows how many e-mails he's gonna get bombarded with, hopefully they're won't be any death threats (as other 'debunkers' have claimed to have received).

I'm glad they are at least publicly open to the possibility it was a controlled demo. that's a huge first step when you really think about it...

not open at all, we just

not open at all, we just forced thier hand.......

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


They're trying to head off criticism that they didn't even consider the obvious explanation of controlled demolition. They'll say they looked into it but found no evidence. No way will they ever actually come to that conclusion, but it is a good sign that they have at least been forced to address the possibility. They know they will have zero credibility otherwise, which means they know "the whole world is watching."

bingo. they couldnt possibly

bingo. they couldnt possibly NOT look at WTC7 without at least pretending that they looked into the CD hypothesis. not at this point.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

i def. agree w/ that

i do think this latest addendum acknowledging the possibility of a CD was forced upon them by the Movement.

Here is my note to

It strikes me that ae911truth might be able to help make life more difficult for NIST vis-a-vis WTC7. I sent them the following message:

Folks, this came up on 911blogger today:

It is about the upcoming NIST WTC7 whitewash.

I hope you people can follow this, and maybe even find a way to preempt it? I will post this note at 911blogger, hoping others will have ideas on how to do that.

an idea

how about addressing the fact that they will not even look at floors 1 thru 7 and 47. seems to me that if one wanted a thorough investigation, one would take a look at all of the floors...

Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Architects and Engine

Because then they would have to explain

how this truss crossed the street.

WTC & "paper thin" sulfidation

To:Michael E. Newman


I am writing in regard to your June 29, 2007 statement concerning the impending WTC 7 collapse analysis report.

Firstly, in your earlier report, NIST stated that it would examine hypothetical blast scenarios and their possible contributions to the collapse of WTC 7.

Secondly, Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, of UC Berkeley, who examined some of the steel from the WTC under a grant from the National Science Foundation stated on October 16, 2001, that he saw steel from WTC 7, which appeared "paper thin" (like melting ice on a lake in the Spring), and "evaporated." He stated that he did not know what could have caused such intense heat in WTC 7, but that the source certainly was not from things such as burning office furniture. He had never seen anything like it before.

My question is: Have you studied Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl's analysis regarding the "paper thin" effects on the steel (or sulfidation)?

Also: Since the "paper thin" effect (or sulfidation) may very well have contributed to the collapse of WTC 7 by weakening certain key columns, have you included this as part of the so-called “blast scenario” or as part of another scenario to describe the structural demise of WTC 7 in the upcoming 2007 report?

The exclusion of such data as collected by the National Science Foundation will only continue to raise certain questions regarding the validity of the NIST examination.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you,

Have a wonderful July 4th

[Ferric Oxide]

Two questions: Will the

Two questions: Will the scientists at NIST who will produce this report sign it? Does anyone know how NIST operates internally--what are the politics of their working up a report like this?

I ask this for a couple of reasons: 1) They have been putting this report off for quite some time now. 2) It is more than likely that there are at least a few real scientists at NIST who are unwilling to sign off on yet another phony "study."

I do not trust NIST for one second, but it must be the case that at least some of their people see what we all see. It would be very helpful if someone who knows could explain how they do their studies and reports. The names of signers would also be very helpful in understanding why they reach the sort of anti-scientific conclusions have they been known for concerning 9/11. Obviously NIST has been motivated by politics far more than science. If we can get a better understanding of their political process, we might be able to have more impact on their final report.

JFK on secrecy and the press

What Fools

So they are going to "pull" a Popular Mechanics again. What fools........... I was thinking, If they impeach Bush and Cheney on charges other than the crimes of 9/11, and their are many, it would take the heat off the 9/11 cover-up. If I was a NWO thug that would be my plain of attack. Lets face it, they (Bush and Cheney) have outlived their usefulness when it comes to the NWO's sick agenda. As we all should know by now Bush and Cheney are just puppets of the Globalists. If they are impeached, 9/11 truth would go the way of the Kennedy murder. They know, as we all do, that 9/11 truth exposed would go way past Bush and Cheney. It would rock the world and expose all of them. People would wake-up by the billions. It would mark the end of the NWO.............Just a thought.

Just one more doubling

one more "bifurcation", and our movement, as the movement of the truth to the greatest number of minds ASAP, will have irrevocably altered the historical landscape for all future generations. And when they all look back on this chapter or episode of historic insanity, there'll be much more than a single magic bullet for examination. The buildings were blown up from the top down, the twin towers, in broad daylight, in plain sight, and, given the manner and the speed with which they went "poof", their "mere" absence from the New York City skyline, shall forever remain, in perpetuity, THE number one "smoking gun" of 9/11. Future grade 10 physics students, armed with nothing but a few videos, a stopwatch, and some basic equations will PROVE, in no uncertain terms and well beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever, that the true history reveals a great atrocity, presided over and then covered up by the highest levels of the US government, employing 9/11 as a pretext to wage an unjustified and illegal pre-emptive war of aggression. The only way to get the blood off the nation's hands, is to expose the "family secret" that is 9/11, which as a lie and a manipulative tool, serves only as a corrupting influence. The myth will fall. Can't not.
On the 11th day, of every month.

Don't forget media complicity

"...presided over and then covered up by the highest levels of the US government..."

The cover-up could never have succeeded without the participation of the media, from Bill O'Reilly to Amy Goodman.

This was a crime done in broad daylight and should have been obvious to anyone with eyeballs, and it has so far remained un-investigated by those whose duty it is supposed to be to keep the public informed.

The media cannot be given a free pass once the cover-up comes to light.

media complicity

absolutely correct.

Amy Goodman is no different than O'Reilly. Do a search for Ron Paul on and you'll find an amazing thing... ZERO stories. Zip.

A HUGE media blackout of a presidential candidate proving that democracy is at risk in this country and DEMOCRACYnow! doesn't even TOUCH it once?

American dream and the Media

Nobody can say what is really going on better than this guy

George Carlin is magnificaent and he does care.

I agree Yarro

I hold the Media, along with the apathy of the American people who are in the know, just as guilty as the neocons and their NWO backers. If there were any "real" journalists in this country the "Official Story" wouldn't have got off the ground.

Accidental double-post


And when that myth does completely fall

then let there be a *turnover*, as the next generation TAKES OVER at all levels and in every single sphere of power and influence in American society. 9/11 can ONLY serve a just and noble historical pursuit by what is learned from it, and the "lessons learned from 9/11" are most decidedly NOT what Giuliani and Bush/Cheney have in mind and are forever parroting. They are speaking from a parallel universe, which no one is participating in any more. They THINK that "terror" sells, but it does not. Their time, is up. In the real world, we are going to set forth creating something of lasting value built on principals, before personalities.
On the 11th day, of every month.

I don't mean to rain on your parade ...

I don't mean to rain on everybody's parade, I would like to see the neocons fall as much as anybody else, but ... this system is so entrenched it will not change without a lot of bloodshed. Bankers control the monetary system, liars control the media, gangsters control the government. If the next generation takes office and they have trouble making things work, the old guard will step back in, unless the old guard is all dead. These guys are not going away overnight. We need to strategize now, how do we avoid a total collapse of civilization when the shit hits the fan?


As DRG points out in Debunking 9/11 Debunking, NIST is part of the Commerce Dept. which means it's yet another case of the Bush Administration investigating itself.

If someone wanted to CD WTC 7

The 5th thru 7th floors are exactly the floors you would want to target because of the unusual design of the building.

There is no way in the world that al CIAda terrorists who never flew Boeings, could target just the right floors to cause the Towers to collapse, that then caused enough damage to WTC 7 to cause the complete failure of that building.

The reason why the 5th thru 7th floors are important is this is where the trusses were that held up the rest of the building. I doubt there are any other skyscrapers that were built like WTC 7. That's why it was an 'easy' building to bring down. If you wanted to bring down the whole building, blowing out these trusses were the way to go. Then the rest of the building had no where else to go but down.

They probably split the building up the middle of the south side, that's why the Penthouse goes first, and then blew out the 5th floor and that was about it.

They claim there was fires on these floors but of course they can't find any evidence to back this up. There certainly wasn't any major fires observed in this area, except for one in the SE corner on the 7th floor. Besides 5 thru 7 were mechanical floors. There wasn't that much in the way of combustibles there.

So how did they blow out the 5th floor? I'd ask Jerome Hauer. He's the one that installed the fuel systems, tanks, lines and generators in WTC7 for Rudy's OEM Bunker. The one they were all to afraid to put one toe in on 9/11.

And how did those fires begin

if not by arson?

Why does everyone assume (ass-u-me) that the fires in WTC7 started from a little rubble clipping the exterior corner of the building? That alone makes no sense, when you really think about it, but alas, another part of the true story completely overlooked, while being completely absurd both at the same time.
On the 11th day, of every month.

Whether there was a fire

and/or an explosion, it was certainly targeted at a specific area and deliberate.

Maybe that's why Hauer decided not to install any sprinklers or a fire suppression system on the 5th Floor. Even though the rest of WTC 7 was a 'sprinklered' building.

Re: And how did those fires begin

I know, I know!

Careless smoker guy?

"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

In some regards WTC 7 was

In some regards WTC 7 was unique. However, according to Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, UC Berkeley (in a National Science Foundation funded study), he stated that WTC 7 was one of perhaps one hundred or so similar structures and referred to building like WTC 7 as "garden variety." Please listen to his entire interview at NPR (Oct. 16, 2001.)

This is the same guy

who did the modeling for WTC 2 based on the wrong floor plans.

He claimed he couldn't get the blueprints for the floors in the impact zones, so he based his models on the planes for a few floors down. Unfortunately, there were some big difference between the two.

I'd like to know where he got the idea that WTC 7 was a garden variety building? Maybe he was looking at the blueprints for another building?

Garden Variety

He made the statement on October 16, 2001. This was very early on---which is probably why he even mentioned the paper thin "evaporation" (through sulfidation) at all. The motive to deceive may have not been as strong or defined this early in the game for the Professor. His words are very compelling. At that time he had no idea how so intense a fire could have been generated to "evaporate" steel-as he put it. He stated that he had never seen anything like it. The fact that he stated that it was a garden variety is also interesting , as compared to the governments story. The government claims (or appears to claim) that the uniqueness of the structure contributed to the ease of collapse. Obviously, no matter how much debris from WTC 1 fell on it, it would NOT have fallen in 6.5 seconds. That is ridiculous. I doubt NIST will mention the time of collapse here.

The building was strong enough

and there was not enough damage from the collapse of the Towers, not were the fires big enough for long enough, in just the right places to cause WTC 7 to fall.

However, it was an easy building to CD because of the cantilever trusses that held the building up over the ConEd Substation. I bet he avoids mentioning those too.

Why wait around for NIST or LC?

Please forgive me for being a bit OT here, but....
I think we have much more effective activism tools and information available right NOW.
Recently, the video "Zeigeist" was introduced on this site. Part 2 of the video was of interest to Truthers because it does an exceptional job of outlining the key points of 911 that are beyond getting into dead-end debates that deflate the air out of the movement. On the basis of Part 2 alone - I think this video represents one of the best tools we have available right now.
But more importantly, the more times I have watched the entire video - I have become convinced that this could become a watershed in terms of waking people up to the TOTAL picture. All you guys into Alex Jones' NWO Order total control or Ron Paul's exposing the Federal Reserve ....this video is the Big Tent.
If by chance - you have not watched Parts 2 + 3 yet - I can't stress enough how much I think you would be amazed at what a brilliant piece of work this is. I spoke out of turn on the prior article blog comments, as I had not watched parts 1 and 3 yet and I regret that I had missed the bigger picture which this video masterfully presents.

This video is all about everything else that makes 911 so important. It illustrates how 911 is just a detail in a much bigger picture. My perspective on how to advocate for 911 Truth has completely changed (for the better) after spending the time to fully appreciate this entire video.
Part 1 seems a bit tough on religion at first, but in the end I feel it is not bashing religion as much as it is bashing how man has "used" religion to divide and conquer us, keep us in fear and under control, and to ultimately prevent us from realizing our true spiritual birthright.
The beginning overture is brilliant in how it sets the stage for explaining what 911 was.
Yeah - it doesn't mention Silverstein, Zakheim, etc. but I have made my peace with that and think that for a first absolute slam dunk Intro to 911 Truth - this video is very powerful. (If you try to take someone from 0 -> 60 in their first video, they are going to be overloaded. I think this could take them from 0 --> 59 and have them begging you for the last 1).

Please give this video a second look if you have not seen the whole thing.
I bet most of you will be as amazed as I have been with what a powerful and comprehensive message this is.
I especially like how In Part 3 - it explains how "dollars" are not going to save your ass - and I think this point is so well made that it could be enough to wake up the masses who seem so preoccupied with trying to get as many of these odd little green pieces of paper as possible. Hit the sheeple over the head with the only thing they seem to care about - an empty wallet!
Check it out - after a year of 911 Truth - this video has really turned the lights on for me:

Zeigeist Final Cut - Part 2:

Zeitgeist Final Cut - Part 3:

Zeitgeist - Full Production - Parts 1+2+3 with Overture

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke, 1729 - 1797

I feel pretty stupid

for not having watched this before when it was blogged here. I remember reading the comments and passed it by. Last time I trust the comments. Although the first part is religious-related I agreed with most of it and learned some too. But It might be asking too much for Parts II and III to be watched seriously if the viewer is still alienated by the first. Most folks do not critically examine their religion and would be characteristically offended. Though Part I appears a valid interpretation to my mind.
But Part II, which I have now finished was probably the best segment on 9/11 I have ever seen. And the Third, which I have just begun appears to follow suit regarding the Fed.

Thanks mike4T. Now, how do I download it or purchase it and selectively use the pieces I wish in order to use it in my arsenal?

getting a copy of this

Thanks for watching this - I felt like a real idiot too - having let the best Part (3) almost pass me by.
Now tell me Part 3 isn't the best thing you have seen in a long time....right?
I also like how Part 3 ends on a note of HOPE - like the very final ending of the original version of 911 Mysteries does - re: the "awakening".
I would go to the zeitgeist website and use the contact form to ask the person about dvd copies.
As far as saving the video - you can download the googlevideo file format (.gvi file) directly from the google video page, by clicking on the "DOWNLOAD" button and wait for the small mini screen version of the movie to pop up and start playing. You have to wait until it's gray "progress bar" at the bottom reaches the end at the right to get the whole file. After it starts downloading in the mini window, close the original google page to avoid the movie playing twice at the same time.
You can also download the video in it's three separate parts or as the full production w/Overture. I have been linking people to just Parts 2 and 3 if I am concerned Part 1 might turn them off prematurely. (but I found the "Overture" in part 1 to be very very effective).
There are converters out there to change the .gvi file format to an .avi file format which I think is what you need to burn to a dvd, but I have never done this before. Another 911blogger recommended the following converter: which I have yet to try. I need to find some 12 year old kid to show me how to do all this.

Again - my apologies to the original poster on this NIST topic - for my being OT.
It just occured to me how futile it is to wait and hope NIST comes clean, when we all know full well why they didn't the first time around. Why waste too much energy in a dead end, when there is some really good other info out there to get busy with.
But thanks for sharing all info - as always.

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke, 1729 - 1797

saving an .avi from google or youtube

You can also get an .avi file from google video by importing the URL into and trimming off everything in the tail of the link, beginning with the first ampersand. Example for Zeitgeist:

( If the video you want is hosted on youtube, you will only be offered a link to an .flv file, which you can then convert to an .avi with a shareware tool called SuperC.)

From there you will get a download link to the .avi file. Once you have that, you can burn the .avi to a data DVD R, which will play in any DVD player that handles the DivX format. Those are cheap. Philips makes one that sells for $39.

thanks CB

I followed your suggestion and when I downloaded as an .avi file, it ended up getting saved as a .mov file.
Are they same, or has Windows Media Player hijacked all my settings to capture everything in it's format?
Also - when you said that .avi can be burned to a DVD R disc......would it also burn to a DVD +R disc? Somebody told me to always use dvd+R discs to avoid problems. What's your take on that? Thanks again for your help. I have downloaded so many programs and bought so many gadgets but with still no success yet taking various content online and converting it to a dvd that anyone can watch on their TV.

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke, 1729 - 1797

4th down and 99 yards to go...

Yeah, NIST is basically pleading for more time (again!!) so they can concoct a "model" that will "show" that WTC 7 was felled by Osama Bin Laden and his merry men.
"Extremely complex analysis" for a starkly simply fact observed in 6.5 seconds: controlled demolition.
By the time the "report" comes out, more than 6 years will have gone by, the better part of a decade. More than enough time for crafty types like them to "prove" whatever they want.
It is worth noting that this "update" which is just a call for more time, came out on a summer Friday, just to make sure that the news dropped into the memory hole. Official agencies always announce difficult things on Friday, because the news cycle slows down over the weekend and people are going to the beach.

A reporter from the NY Times

A reporter from the NY Times stated that NIST is also examining "accidental" blast scenarios. I don't know what that means, but in light of the Jume 29th statement, I thought I'd pass it along.

Linky dinky for this?

"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

I'm sure it was an accident

that Rudy's goons went around turning on all the gas, and then when they were leaving, one of his bozo's threw that lit cigarette over his shoulder, and then the whole thing went boom and fell down. He didn't mean to cause an 'explosive' event. Really, it was just an accident.

Render their Report Useless

Render their Report Useless with one sentence...

"Why did the WTC7 Penthouse fall first?"

It was the work of...

Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS and blonde bombshell Penthouse Pet.

"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

speaking of government cover-ups......

Italian experts test JFK assassination gun

Saturday June 30, 2007

Italian weapons experts say tests on the type of rifle used to kill U.S. President John F. Kennedy show assassin Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone.

The Warren Commission report concluded that Oswald fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 7 seconds to kill Kennedy in Dallas in 1963. However, tests supervised by the Italian Army showed it would take 19 seconds to get off three shots with that type of gun, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

The tests were done in a former Carcano factory in Terni.

In one test, a bullet was fired through two large pieces of meat to simulate the assumed path of a shot that the Warren Commission concluded struck Texas Gov. John Connally after passing through Kennedy's body. In the test, the bullet ended deformed, while the bullet in the Kennedy assassination remained intact.

Conspiracy theories about the assassination have been circulating for more than four decades.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

in a just society this would

in a just society this would be the biggest story on the planet right now. but then in a just society these tests would have never been necessary in the first place. same with this NIST charade......

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Flies and ointment

Don't wanna appear to be too much of a cynic, but a point people seem to overlook:

The truth about 9/11 is already out in the public. It's currently as widespread as it's ever been, and probably as widespread as it's going to get. People just don't care; they just don't get it - they don't WANT to get it. I have this argument on an almost daily basis at work. I work with relatively intelligent guys, all engineers, all used to dealing with logic - but their minds close when they are forced to deal with this and related subjects.

A case in point; the pathetic "car-bombings" in London and Glasgow over the last couple of days. To their minds, the fact that those incidents occurred is all the regressive justification we ever needed to be in Iraq, Afghanistan, and pretty much any other Muslim country on the globe - because, as those "car-bombs" showed, "those people are ANIMALS!" It's too difficult for people to examine their own core beliefs in that way. When presented with DVDs, links to free video documentaries, guess what? They bin them! They don't WANT to be shown the truth. They would rather spend their time looking for 2-minute segments of "amusing" videos on Youtube, or pcitures of girls lying on beaches. A comment from one of the guys when presented with some hard scientific facts about 9/11: "That means nothing to me." Pathetic. Utterly contemptible. But, those people make up the vast majority of modern society. It's not just an uphill battle, it's up a vertical cliff-face.

And when (not if) NIST "confirms" there was no evidence for explosive demolition of WTC7, they will all say "see? We TOLD you conspiracy nuts you were full of shit!"

Another case in point; the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC7 before it did so. When shown the video, every single person I work with looked for excuses, ANY excuse, for why they would or could have known it was going to collapse. "Well maybe that's a video wall!" "Oh it's a residual image, engrained in the glass...!" etc etc. I work with 10 other guys. If that's in any way representative of reality, then "troofers" are outnumbered 10 - 1. And when 9 out of those 10 refuse to even CONSIDER they may be missing a lot, well... We've got a long way to go. Some would say, TOO far.

Personally I'm not inclined to give up. But let's be realistic. There is going to be no impeachment. There is going to be no change in direction. The only hope that I see is if the American people who are aware of him, spend their every waking moment promoting Ron Paul, who could well be mankind's last hope for democracy and an end to the Rothschildian New World Order drive for a one world government.

Don't give up!

911 Mysteries is usually the best video to have anyone watch. My mother and father in law both thought my wife was nuts when she brought up the controlled demolition of the towers last fall. She then put a copy of 911 Mysteries in their Christmas gift bag and they both came away realizing there was much more to it after watching the video.

I am a mechanical engineer and an engineer friend who sits across from me would occassionally tease me in a friendly way about my thoughts on 911. Well I gave him a copy of 911 Mysteries last week and after watching it he said "I'm not going to tease you about it anymore". The pulverization is what got him thinking.

Yeup - one person at a time

Congrats on your recent breakthrough....Some newbies take so much hard work, but when they finally see the light - it sure is a gratifying rush, isn't it?
Have you checked out this user's great collection of "911 Coincidences" short clips in series, Parts 1-15:

which I find useful in that if you can get someone to just sit still for 10 minutes and watch for example "911 Concidences Part 6" - they are very likely to then agree to watch Part 7, Part 8, etc. They need the baby steps - because their attention spans have been so debilitated by teevee mind control.
Then hopefully you don't have to get the chloroform and duct tape out to make them sit still long enough watch longer videos video like The Third Stage, Empire of Oil:Hidden History, and then 911 Mysteries. I like Oil Smoke and Mirrors too for hard core skeptics - as it eases them into the topic on a theory that seems quite plausible (for a typical money grubbing justified American type of thinking way) in a non-sensational delivery. Then later you can give them all the juicier stuff - the trick is getting that initial foot in the door.

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke, 1729 - 1797

I have had this experience,

I have had this experience, too. Just keep at it. Everyone I know who resisted two years ago sees it now. It can take a full year or more for many people.
Then there is the next category--those who have a vague grasp of the truth, will admit that the OCT is bs, but are not motivated to do anything or even think about it more deeply. They are still sitting on the fence, though their legs are on the right side. I am still pushing some of this type, but it can be slow. This kind of person is a real follower.
Also, with engineers and people who have some sort of ego-investment in what they believe (most of us), it is a good idea to get yourself out of the way as much as you can. Figure out some way for them to admit the truth without having to admit that "you" were right. With many people, I just state this point outright. I say something like, "This is not about me. It's not my idea. It's just the truth. I really want you to see it. And I will never rub it in your face or do anything like that. I just want you on our side." Then if they switch, never make any reference to the period of time when they were defending the OCT.

JFK on secrecy and the press

Take a Look at The New Improved "September 11 Revisited"

Take a Look at The New Improved "September 11 Revisited"

In my opinion it is equal to or better than "911 Mysteries"

I am afraid...

... that you are right. I am, too, beginning to think that even if they would suddenly announce that, yes, it was an inside job, people would just say: OK, and move to the next channel and watch some football...

WTC-7 construction

The thing that made the design of the lower floors of WTC-7 is that it was designed to fit over an existing electrical substation that actually extended up to the 6th floor (see list of floors here:

Here's the footprint of the building:

And this shows the "cantilever transfer girders" that allowed the framework for the building to straddle the transformers:

All of this asymmetry in the lower floors would make the building want to topple to the north if it failed anywhere close to ground level without a lot of very careful prepping of the interior columns just before the main event. That very peculiar disappearance of the so-called east mechanical penthouse ~8 seconds before the general collapse is clearly part of that process.

For those who would try to explain this as part of a spontaneous, fire-and-gravity collapse are basically asking us to believe that the interior of Trade 7 is acting like a Chinese puzzle box, with pieces sliding this way and that until the magic combination is reached and it all unlocks into rubble. Maybe the underground pyramid in Alien v. Predator is a better analogy, and equally unlikely as a way for a real steel frame building to behave, outside the world of special effects with its own peculiar logic.

One other thought about the diesel tanks and fuel system (I believe all this is in the FEMA/ASCE report). The main storage was in large underground tanks, from which it was pumped into "day tanks" on various floors. The problem is getting any of that fuel up to where it could, under just the right conditions, fuel a fire. (Pools of kerosene on floors are hard to ignite - you really need to spray it into the air in a fine mist to get good combustion.)

The system that pumped the fuel around was a very sophisticated one that used double walled tubing. Any breach in the outer layer would automatically turn off the pump involved, leaving to way for the proposed leak to continue. Most of the fuel was indeed found in the underground tanks after the collapses - can't remember where that was, possibly also in the FEMA/ASCE report.

And without electricity to the building, how could the fuel pumps have kept running, with or without leaks?

What if someone deliberately

Let out vaporized fuel and created the environment for a very powerful fuel/air bomb? You only need to overpressurize about 25% of a floor to make a nice explosion (at least according to a FDNY report, that I'd have to dig for the link if anyone wants to call me on it).

BTW: There was electric to the building all day. Apparently no one shut anything off when they evacuated the place. Supposedly when the power shut down because of the collapses, the emergency systems kicked in. The way the WTC 7 worked is that the day tanks, which were all over the place, would kick in first. Then when one of them ran out of fuel, the main system would kick in and send up more fuel.

One of the big underground tanks that was recovered was empty but still intact. Where did the fuel go? Some of it went to generating the electric that should have been turned off, but that should leave plenty to blow out a few floors if you had the ways and means.

Will next 911 happen before this report comes out?

The chances are the next 911 will happen in Vegas or London before this report making it irrelevant at the time.
After the next 911 - many things will change.

Hoping this to be wrong.

We should have bets as to where the next 911 will be. I'm betting Vegas or London. - 911 Videos + Clips

Comment to DoYouEverWonder:

Hi DoYouEverWonder

I have enjoyed watching you plant the seed in everyone's mind that WTC7 indeed did have a structural 'flaw' that explains how it could collapse so easily. I refer, of course, to your two-part pseudo-theory whereby the "unusual design of the 5th thru 7th floors", combined with a "fuel/air" bomb from the diesel tanks in the basement, could cause the building to collapse the way it did. And you also enrich your "theory" with a 9/11 Truther-satisfying side-line that it was "insiders" responsible for tossing a cigarette over their shoulder to get the CD rolling.

By your continual repetition of this "theory", you hope to implant in people's minds that indeed Building 7 could, in fact, drop like a curtain wall (which it did) just by targeting one specific area inside. This is UTTER RUBBISH.

And regardless of how the interior of the building was put together, the simple fact of the matter is that the perimeter walls lawn-darted straight into the ground in ~7 seconds, without so much as a jitter, shake, jar, or jolt, as the bottom edge of each wall seemingly turned to rubber as they hit. There is absolutely NO indication on the walls to suggest that their bottom edges were (and most definitely SHOULD HAVE been) hammering with massive force into the ground, thus generating severe shocks throughout the entire area of each wall.

Take your "seeding" campaign's not wanted here.

I think you misunderstand what I am trying to say

I don't think the collapse of WTC7 was an accident at all.

I think that the planners knew these buildings very well and knew exactly what floors to target to bring these buildings down.

The unusual design of both the Towers and WTC7 just made the job easier, rather then harder if you knew what made these buildings different. However, because of these unusual design elements, neither of the three buildings needed to be 'wired' for demolition the way you would a more traditionally designed building. If you know what structures inside of these buildings carried most of the loads, wouldn't these be the places you would want to target? Once you destroy the structures that held the building up, in the case of WTC 7, the cantilevered trusses, then the rest of the building had no where else to go but down. How many other buildings do you know of, have cantilevered trusses on the lower floors holding them up?

If you look at the mechanical work that was done to the entire complex after the 1993 bombing, a lot of the work could have served a dual purpose. For examples, Jerome Hauer was behind a lot of the changes that were made to WTC 7, once Rudy decided to move his OEM bunker there. Because of this bunker, they needed lot's of backup electrical power. Seems reasonable, this was an emergency center. In order, to supply this power, Hauer had an excuse to install lot's of fuel and a system to deliver it inside of WTC 7. I doubt you'll find many other skyscrapers in NYC or anywhere else that stored this much fuel, especially since the WTC complex used free steam heat from ConEd to heat the buildings, they didn't even need fuel for that.

If the concept of thermobariac, ie fuel/air explosives is not welcome here, then I will be glad to go somewhere else, because after studying the mechanics of these buildings for a couple of years now, I am convinced thermobariac weapons played a big part in destroying these buildings. Just as good as nukes, without the radioactive mess and very little traceable evidence left behind.

BTW: I don't think someone throwing a cig over their shoulder could bring down a building. I'm sorry if my sarcasm wasn't apparent.

Edit: Oops, forgot the Thermite. I do think Jones is right and that his tests do prove that Thermite was also a factor and that it was used to precut key columns and trusses, to make the job a lot easier and more reliable, then fuel/air weapons by themselves.

"thermobaric weapons"?.......AAAAck!

DoYouEverWonder said,

"If the concept of thermobariac, ie fuel/air explosives is not welcome here, then I will be glad to go somewhere else, because after studying the mechanics of these buildings for a couple of years now, I am convinced thermobariac weapons played a big part in destroying these buildings. Just as good as nukes, without the radioactive mess and very little traceable evidence left behind"

I say,!

why dont you start a thread on your "just as good as nukes" theory.....I'll be there.....LOL!

.... on the other hand, actually, ...after thinkin for a minute...I totally agree!....

And there were INDEED no less than two thermobaric explosions on sept 11 in NYC!.......

.....and they were caused by the atomization of the contents of two separate Boeing passenger plane jet fuel tanks!

But neither kerosene explosion even came close to a "nuke" ...nor came close to taking down the buildings!

Thermobaric explosions are powerful, (in the way they displace a large volume of atmosphere) but.... the temp (of a hydrocarbon based thermobaric explosion)....just cant get hotter than any "other" hydrocarbon fire....which is about 1850 degrees fahrenheit!!!!

"just as good as nukes"? spare us and taketh thine horsemanure elsewhere!

p.s.....I would go tell it to Uncle Fester if I were you. It could be that you have found the figurative "missing link" in Festers space beamin' no-planing mini nookular (and now) thermobaric reaction theory!

Yes, you could say

the planes were thermobaric weapons. That is how they were used.

But I don't understand why is such an outrageous idea that they might have also used a thermobariac devices to cause the buildings to collapse?

In the Towers, the system to deliver them was built right into to the structures, ie the freight elevators. Plus you don't need anything fancy or traceable to create a thermobariac reaction. No need to prewire every floor or plant explosives all over the place. Precutting key columns and corners was probably necessary, in order to insure a complete collapse, but that a lot less work, then it would take to wire 3 whole buildings without anyone every noticing or finding your work later on.

Unlike space beams or whatever that fraud Fetzer is promoting, his bs has nothing to do with thermobariacs, which are in use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember the MOAB? That's a thermobaric weapon. What if put one of those on the 5th Floor of WTC7? Right under all those trusses? What would happen to the building?

The Thermobaric Age
by Clay Risen

"Thermobaric" denotes any weapon that creates massive amounts of destructive overpressure. Although there are several types, the U.S. military's thermobaric of choice is the BLU-82, our top of the line. Also known as the "daisy cutter," "Big Blue" or the "commando vault," the BLU-82 is a 15,000 pound bomb that bears a striking resemblance to a 1960s-vintage spacecraft. It is rolled out the back of MC-130s and drifts to earth on a parachute. The parachute is important because the plane needs to put a lot of distance between it and the blast site, which will soon be shaken by a 4-mile-radius shockwave. As the bomb descends it blows a primary charge that releases an aerosol mixture; when it reaches the ground, a secondary explosive goes off, creating a massive fireball and overpressure. Everything — buldings, trees, small hills — is flattened. Anyone not in a hermetically sealed bunker is killed, either by the blast, the flames, the vacuum or flying debris.

The Air Force dropped 11 daisy cutters in the Gulf Conflict, and British SAS troops who saw one of the explosions from miles away thought it was a tactical nuclear weapon. Indeed, there is no practical difference between nuclear and thermobaric weapons. Both weapons create similar overpressures, about 10,000 pounds per square foot at ground zero. They destroy indiscriminately over a wide area, ruin farmland and pose an enormous threat to civilian populations. And while thermobarics do not create residual radiation, they do leave behind sizeable amounts of toxic chemicals not burned off in the blast, which poison civilians and farmland.

Nevertheless, the military has been more than candid about its use of the daisy cutter in the current conflict, tossing its name out as if it were just one more toy in our dazzlingly sophisticated arsenal. In a clear attempt to win the understatement of the week award, deputy chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Peter Pace told The New York Times that "they make a heck of a bang when they go off."

Clearly, there are some advantages to using thermobarics in Afghanistan. As they are essentially explosive clouds of gas, they are very effective against caves and tunnels and other hard-to-reach places, which abound in the Afghan mountains. And when used against Iraqi troop formations, the weapons were more than enough to convince thousands to defect.

explosives lesson for DoYouEverWonder

I'm sure you will tell us all you know this already...assuming you have read your own link...

A thermobaric or fuel air bomb is essentially a large "gas tank" that falls from an airplane.

It is filled with a liquid explosive of some sort....gasoline or kerosene (are probably) used

It has an altitude sensor that tells it when it is about 1or2hundred feet off the ground

at that point (200feet off the ground) an explosive (or maybe compressed air) charge goes off !

and the (liquid) fuel is EVENLY dispersed in a huge aerosol type vapor cloud (without being ignited) until the cloud of atomized liquid has expanded to full size!

When the vapor cloud has reached full size, a hot spark goes off and the large Volume of gas vapor then explodes. .........yes, it is very powerful!

It just doesnt make sense to bring in a large fuel air bomb (two thousand gallons? in a cart?) up the elevator shaft as you say, exploding it on floor 5-7 or wherever (INSIDE) a building

Where or how does the efficient fuel dispersal, (that works so well in open air) occur inside a building with walls and hallways and rooms w/equipment? ect..ect..

(you would got more of my respect) if you had suggested that there were fuel "sprayers" installed all over the floor) for good vapor dispersal!

I still woulda disagreed though!

I'm gonna stick with thermite/thermate. ........the evidence is abundance!

In WTC 7 they didn't need to cart much fuel around

It was already on site and with a pressurized system to deliver it to a number of locations.

How hard would it be to tap into these line with valves that would atomize the fuel? Add a tank of oxygen to the mix and you can get a pretty major bang for your buck.

Now there was one 12,000 gallon fuel tank that turned up empty. I know diesel is not a good fuel for this sort of thing, but how hard would it be to switch out the fuel before hand to something more explosive? A heck of lot easier then wiring a building I would think.

BTW: Two thousand gallons is not that much fuel. Both of the Twin Towers & WTC 7 had freight elevators that you drive onto in a fairly large truck into and go to any floor you wish. Each building had one 'drive on' express freight elevator that went from the basement to the top. I've actually ridden on these elevators, back in the 70's when my bf had a delivery route in NYC. We loved doing the WTC because you didn't have to park (usually illegally) and could just drive right into the building and go on up.

So what would be easier? Get your loads of fuel, in specially rigged trucks of course, drive onto the elevator the AM of the attack, send the elevator to the desired floor and shut it down for 'maintenance'? The elevator shafts are a lot like grain silos and they were in the cores of the buildings. What would happen to a building if you set off a fuel/air explosion in it's core? Sure would cut down on the number of cutter charges you would need, but you would still need some and the evidence for those are on film. If you notice in the Towers the squibs are not random but most of them are either across the top of a mechanical floor or down the center lines of the buildings. There are also a few that appear to come from key corners.

BTW: Just a side note. All of the elevator mechanics at the WTC were supposedly to be part of the emergency response team and were responsible for helping to get people out of the elevators, in the event of a fire or other emergency. For some reason, they all abandoned the site before the first tower fell. Just something else that makes you wonder?