Debating Pro-War Veterans in Philadelphia at the Cindy Sheehan Rally

July 19, 2007
A crowd supporting Cindy Sheehan's congressional campaign to impeach and end the war gathered in Philadelphia the day after Cindy declared via sit-in at congressman John Conyer's office her candidacy against Pelosi. Sheehan supporters were quickly met with hostility as a pro-war veterans group known as the Gathering of Eagles disrupted the rally with shouting and blowing of foghorns. It was a circus of unproductive discourse and bruised egos. After a few minutes of filming debates between pro-war Vets and anti-war Peacers I was accosted about my "9/11 Truth NOW" shirt and called a "nut job" who, "believes the towers were blown up". I corrected my accusers' suppositions that "9/11 Truth" refers solely to exposing controlled demolition and attempted to elucidate other issues of import. The most outspoken of the vets, who turned out to be the National Coordinator for GOE, beckoned a worthy opponent who could challenge his perspective. I being the iconoclast that I am, decided to challenge the paradigms of this misdirected individual. For the record I avoided certain points of conflict in order to initiate deeper argumentation. Be sure to check out the confrontation with an agent of the "secret police" at the end.

Debating Pro-war Veterans

Cindy Sheehan on Al Jazeera the next day 20 July 07

No 9/11 though

The Gathering of Eagles

The Gathering of Eagles behaved like mafia thugs or Hell's Angels at the Pentagon demonstration in March. They made protesters feel physically intimidated and were extremely rude and provocative.

NPR allowed them the only sound bite in their coverage that evening -- something along the lines of "our boys fighting there for our right to demonstrate here." These guys are either brainwashed beyond imagining or they are managed provocateurs, sent out to suggest a large pro-war veterans movement.


"Islamic-Fascists who would cut your head off in a heartbeat attacked us". Amazing what people will believe out of fear. So many mistakes, so many glaring inconsistencies, so much covered up, all arrows pointing to the White House. Yet, so many fail to see because they are in fear. This will play well for the Neocons in the next attack. The great distraction is coming, some major Hollywood scandal or other event to occupy the unsuspecting 'minds' of the American people. Then the attack, a new shock and awe. Probably suitcase nukes (a nuke for a nuke sounds good, almost biblical). Fog of war, no response necessary. Then the propaganda: Islamic-Fascists are here to cut your heads off. They are from Iran. The intelligence shows they have nuclear capabilities far beyond what we originally established. We must destroy those facilities, or they will destroy us because they hate our democracy. They hate our freedom.

Funny thing is, our fascist government could cart us off to CIA camps as "enemy combatants" and this guy wouldn't even flinch, or recognize himself as a mirror image of the German people who looked the other way while their government committed genocide. So goes our freedom.

I commend your patience

Those vets were really lost. It's important to know that outspoken yahoos of that type are not representative of all or even a majority of GIs. They are organized and funded by nefarious enities. It's OK to challenge the leaders but better to concentrate on more sincere, rank and file, vets. Good job though. We need a plan to systematically intersect and inform both active duty and vets.

Interesting debate

I was surprised by how open the leader with the mullet and sunglasses was about things. He knew about Northwoods and CIA support for Bin Laden. Yet rather than just act unruly he sort of absorbed some of the things and then basically responded by saying "it was the Arabs". The thing is, people like him aren't necessarily anti-911 truth. They are very pro-America but they've been brainwashed into thinking that anti-war marchers are all secret agents of worldwide socialist plot. They're not that stupid (well some are). I can see someone like him joining 9/11 Truth once they realize that the traitors in our military and government who engineered 9/11 are worse than any socialist plot. They are the true enemies. It will just take mullet-man a few years to figure this out. Of course intelligent, calm and collective people like yourself expediate the process. Good work.

well done keeping your cool!

I don't think I would have maintained my cool as well as you did there,. good'on ya'! One thing you can always ask these Circlejerk of WarMongers., er' I meen Garthering of Birdbrains,. when they spout off about Fascist Islamists,. is what proof is there of it. There seems to be no real evidence of anything like the offical sotry,. ask them "and WHY do you belive that?" and they have only the TV speaches of the PNAC pirates to draw from, and as we all know, they talk with no base in reallity. Enouph people oppose these War Freeks and some truth will eventualy seep into their washed brains.

Pro-War people are Baby-Killers

That's my latest new response.

If someone in any way tries to be pro-war, I remind them that they are baby-killers, and child-killers, woman-murderers, and they have blood on their hands. I ask them if they can see the blood on their hands, and feel the slick wetness of it. Can they smell the blood and the death? Do they try to wash it off every night?

They tend to not appreciate that. The correct response to that is, "Fuck 'em."

If they start to falter, I ask them, "How many children can die in the Mid-East Wars? Can be horribly hurt, and maimed, and disfigured? What number is acceptable? One? Five? Twenty? One Hundred? One Thousand? Ten thousand? Because it's a whole lot more than that right now. What number of dead children is an acceptable amount? What number can you live with?"

Since most people have a "thing" about babies and children dieing, it tends to work and have an affect. (even if, and maybe even especially so when, they try to pretend like it doesn't — it's quite wonderful the way that works — it's one of my favorite things — second only to soft furry kittens)

Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Forensic 9/11ologist

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. — Robert Heinlein

i thought cindy was quitting

and then i heard she was going to the middle east.

she seems to wishy washy for me.

her voice is irritating to listen to like amy goodman. and not just because she's a woman.

but she has done some good things.