Dublin Club cancels David Ray Griffin's 9/11/07 lecture Due to Threat of Protest

David Ray Griffin's lecture scheduled for September 11th at the Sugar Club in Dublin, Ireland, has been canceled by the club manager. The club manager writes, "members of the local Jewish Community are planning to stage a protest outside The Sugar Club on September 11th 2007 because of the nature of the talk you planned to stage here."

An email exchange between Morgan Stack of Ireland, and the club manager can be read here;

David Ray Griffin is not an anti-semite, nor does he equate 9/11 skepticism with a "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracy. So the protesters appear to be misinformed about the "nature of the talk", and now this has blown into the cancellation of an important lecture with very little time to secure and properly publicize a new venue.

Griffin is one of the authors featured in 9/11 and American Empire Vol. II: Christians, Jews and Muslims Speak Out. It should be made clear to the club manager and owners that this is a bad decision. Please write to the club manager and ask him to reconsider. The protesters could give be given free tickets, (as long as they don't disrupt), so they can see that their fears are unfounded. If they hold their questions till the Q&A session, I'll bet that Griffin will answer them.

email: info@thesugarclub.com
phone: +353 1 6787188
fax:+353 1 6787199


We need him in New York on 9/11/07

This is...

The result of how the media portrays us, causing people to assume that the "nature of the talk" is about how the "Jews" pulled off 9/11.

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Show "More Likely It's the Refusal to Purge Your Ranks of Anti-Semites" by Brainster

I'm wondering...

Why is it do you think this Administration hates subpoenas so much?

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Maybe we....

can get Bush & Cheney to answer that question behind close doors,with no media,and recordings?

And not under oath?

Been there, done that...

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Brainster-"duh, what does

Brainster-"duh, what does Zionist mean? anti jew right? duh........"



"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

We have no "ranks" to purge

There is no organization. There is no central authority. Everybody speaks, even the anti-semites (real and disinfo clowns).

What would you propose we do? "Purge" the Internet?

If I went to your website and started posting pro-debunker and anti-semite speech, would that make all debunkers anti-semites?

This whole "guilt by association" ploy is a cheap propaganda tactic. Why don't you spend more energy defending the 9/11 Commission and its report? Maybe because you know that it is a fraud that can be quantified and debated, unlike spurious attacks on an unspecified "membership" of 9/11 Truth.

Show "Reasonable Point" by Brainster

I hardly know who Morgan Stack is

and he's so incredibly irrelevant to 9/11 Truth, I'm not sure I need to know.

For the sake of this discussion, I looked him up. Apparently, he has published anti-semitic nonsense. Griffin should not associate with his kind.

I will, however, grant Griffin the benefit of the doubt. He travels and publishes extensively. It's possible he had no idea what Morgan Stack has written, and only knew Stack as someone who waves the "9/11 Truth" flag. Again, we can't control membership. There is no party.

I also have to wonder how often you have been to a public event where you did not know everything everyone in the room has said or written over the years?

Bottom line: If Stack is a bigot, then he can go to hell. But Stack is not 9/11 Truth.

Morgan Stack is a spacebeam proponent

who, along with Jim Fetzer and Kevin Barrett, rushed to throw his support behind the Kennebunkport Warning when the veracity of the document and its alleged signatories was called into question.

Why aren't you doing your bleeding "job"...

..over in these threads?


Or even at your "blog"?

Thought YOU were supposed to be a "debunker", not us. Didn't you lot brag about how you're always on top of everything? But not a peep about this out of you prats for going on near a week. What could keep you away from "twoofer bait"?

It makes one wonder, it does...

NOTE: I'm leaving this thread now. Just needed to make that wee point for posterity...

Show "When your opponent is self-destructing..." by Brainster


Or self-regulating?

Weeding a garden helps it grow stronger and more beautiful.

I'm sorry, this guy just isn't on the up and up

Brainster is another professional disinformation agent, presumably on the payroll of the 9/11 perpetrators. The problem isn't that he disagrees with the 9/11 truth movement. It's that he cryptically seeks to sow confusion and demoralization on readers here, rather than frankly share ideas and shed light on the complex matters involved. There are scads of these agents that've come to the fore in recent months, haunting places like the comments section on YouTube.

This may be becoming a serious challenge to the 9/11 truth movement. It's also an entirely predictable response by the perps to the rising levels of interest and support for 9/11 truth on the Internet and elsewhere.

What an idiotic comment!

He's 'needed' where he was booked, Dublin, Ireland.
Your reaction is that of the pea-brained, missing the point completely.

Hmm, I guess...

speaking on "Myths vs Reality" cuts a little too close to home for some. Can't have the Sheep questioning historic or religious myths. After all, that's a double edge Sword for Zionists.

..and remember not all

..and remember not all zionists are Jewish (many Christians are) and not all jews are zionists, like Rabbi Weiss from "Jews United Against Zionism" for example.

..and this raises one

..and this raises one EXTREMELY interesting question :
are "jews" against 9-11 truth and if yes then WHY ?
clearly, they don't have anything to hide, do they ?
"Listen carefully now : DO NOT DESTROY OIL-WELLS" Dubya

I don't think so, many must

I don't think so, many must be misinformed like other people the like but it seems to be a more critical issue to Jews in general because of the alligations towards Israel regarding 9/11 (though not all Jews support the zionist created homeland of Israel idea)

The question is inherently bigoted

Are "jews" against 9/11 Truth? The structure of such a question is inherently bigoted, because it assumes "all jews" believe something. It would be just as flawed to ask if "Christians" or "Irish people" or "Icelanders" are against 9/11 Truth. Within any ethnic or religious group, there will be variation. People who do not recognize variation within groups are usually bigots.

Adding "they don't have anything to hide, do they?" is inciting prejudice. No, "they" don't have anything to hide, because not "all" Jewish people were connected with 9/11. Again, please refrain from bigoted assumptions.

If you have an accusation against a particular person who happens to be Jewish, then you should present that accusation in all its particulars. Would your accusation stand up in a court of law, or is it just speculation and hearsay? That's for you to decide. But I hope we can elevate the discourse around here beyond such leading questions like the one you pose above.

So, no, I don't find your question "extremely interesting." I do find it "extremely interesting" that it took all of one day of open comments for this sort of thing to appear.

bullshit ..

First : did you note the " " around "jews" ?
Second : Can you prove that the so-called neo-conservatives are not zionists ?
Third : Can you prove that "Urban Movers" and "The Dancing Israelis", who where on Israeli TV claiming they where there "to document the events"
is a "anti-semitic" neo-nazi dis-info conspiracy ?
And YES I do have an accusation against a person who is "jewish"; (note the " ") his name is.. Larry Silverstein .
Not to mention all the "jews" (note the " " ) who are co-signers of the PNAC document ..
You want 9-11 TRUTH ? then you must look at ALL the persons involved, "jewish" (note the " ") or not .
But I get your message : If there is a "jew" under one of the stones that is turned we better not turn it . AIPAC says so .

Last : Who gained from 9-11 ? The Palestinian "State" ? Taliban ? Muslims ? I think NOT .
but a whole bunch of "Old Testament" crazies, including so-called "american christians" have made fortunes....
And just for the record : No "jews" in my country got exterminated in the death-camps (yes, they are real) a fact that we are still proud of .
If need be we would get "them" out of harms way again .. sadly, I'm not so sure the same applies to muslims.
So you can shove your calling me a "biggot" or "anti-semite" UP YOURS

"Listen carefully now : DO NOT DESTROY OIL-WELLS" Dubya

I think the "" were there to

I think the "" were there to highlight certain words.
And yes, everybody needs to be investigated.

I agree

Peter I agree with you wholeheartedly who really cares what race they are It doesn't matter to me if it was muslims Christians Jews black white yellow or blue, if your hands are bloody with 911 guilt your going down.

If people keep throwing anti semitism around like Paris Hilton's underwear its not going to be as effective and there going to lose it as one of there weapons

Your response is so off the wall

I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing. I stand by my original critique.

And, no, I never said suspects who are Jewish should be ignored. Read my response.


>>"Dr. Morgan Reynolds Directed Energy Weapons Lawsuit is Unsealed"

I notice this is posted on that website -- http://911truth.ie -- why? Why would anyone consider claims of "no planes" or "directed energy weapons" at the WTC a benefit to anyone but our detractors?

Here's what his claim is in this lawsuit :

"Relator, in a Request for Correction dated March 8, 2007 (hereinafter generally referred to as March 8 RFC), copy annexed as Exhibit A, challenged NCSTAR 1 in its entirety based on the Data Quality Act Section 515 Public Law 106-554 and based on NIST’s admitted failure to determine what caused the destruction of WTC1,2, and further based on the submittal of proof that the actual cause was obfuscated by use of false, misleading and fraudulent simulations seemingly showing how hollow, aluminum aircraft could impact with structural steel and nonetheless, glide right through such steel structures (WTC1,2) from nose to end of its tail and wing to wing and leave an airplane shape, no less, all as though this event were a cartoon much like the Roadrunner; or much like a hot knife through butter."


Fast moving objects do cause

Fast moving objects do cause "roadrunner" impressions as they impact other objects dependent on materials and speeds

"David Ray Griffin is not an

"David Ray Griffin is not an anti-semite, nor does he equate 9/11 skepticism with a "Jewish" or "Zionist" conspiracy. So the protesters appear to be misinformed about the "nature of the talk"..."

Or are they?

Easy 49-minute MSM intro to the Israeli connection to the "Neo-cons" (BBC, "War Party"):

For those who haven't seen these...

Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land

Zionist War Crimes

"The important thing is to not stop questioning" - Einstein
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" - Einstein
Many hands make light work!
RRREMA=realize, recognize, reconcile, educate, motivate, activate

this actually aired on a

this actually aired on a local tv station around here(Philly area), i was very surprised. i highly suggest it(Peace,Propaganda and the Promised Land). i'll have to check out the other one too.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Here's my stab at it

It's hard for me to follow the content on the links, since nobody on them seems to write well or, at least, not for the benefit of outsiders.

This is the impression I get from them, though:

1) There's a noisy 9/11 truth activist in Ireland named Morgan Stack. He appears to be something of a one-man band, and includes Jew-baiting in the mix.

2) Stack contracted with Griffin and the venue for the speaking engagement.

3) Members of the local Jewish community -- or at least someone claiming to represent them -- having fingered Stack as a Jew-baiter, concluded that Griffin must be there to advance the same agenda, and threatened the venue with retaliation of some sort if it didn't cancel.

Is the impression of others here who've looked at the links? It's confusing.


This is a good example of how discrediting works, in general.

Anyone posting pages on their websites talking about "Jews" are just asking for attack. As we all know, if you host the transcript of someone discussing or focusing on "Jews," you will be the one responsible for it.

This goes along with the fact that anyone promoting Morgan Reynolds and DEW likely doesn't care about credibility or offending others. All it takes is one ScrewLooseChange reader to get this kind of thing going once the offending posts are found by them.

I recommend these resources:


From Popular Mechanics -
Interestingly, when the popular movie Loose Change appeared in 2005, it featured many of the same claims Hoffman had denounced, and included an image of the seismic spikes article in American Free Press. Although several theorists have criticized the film, Loose Change has generally been embraced by the conspiracy community. By the same token, the book Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory, by David Ray Griffin, quotes both Christopher Bollyn and Jim Hoffman as authoritative sources. We don't see any reason why Popular Mechanics should work harder than do leading conspiracy theorists themselves to make such claims appear coherent or consistent.

As long as we continue to reference, link to or promote people who -- like Bollyn -- chose to do things like be a featured guest on David Duke radio, we leave ourselves open to attack. As a rule, the same people advocating easily refuted hoaxes are also typically focused on Jews, skin color, nationality, etc.

Another guilt by association

Another guilt by association example: Yes, Bollyn was on Duke radio, trying to convince Duke of Israeli involvement in9/11 which Duke does not support. Bollyn knows a lot about Israel having lived there!
Bollyn and his wife and children are MIA for 2.5 months by the way, maybe he discovered too much?
People in the truth movement should care about his disappearance instead of forgetting him; he interviewd the people who saw the molten metal and he knew Steven Jones well. He found out that the Chertoffs from homeland security and popular mechanics were related which they denied first! (he called their aunt who confirmed it) The list goes on and on. Because of that he got more ad hominem attacks and now he's gone..

No, he's not MIA.


To Eric Hufschimd;

"For nearly two months, you and your colleague on The French Connection have said that I am M.I.A. and that I, and my family, have been kidnapped or killed. You, however, know very well that this is not true because we have been exchanging emails and spoken on the phone several times during this time.

This is spreading false news.

You know very well that I have not been kidnapped and I have told you so in plain English on several occasions since June that this is complete nonsense. So why do you continue to post such rubbish?"

One could also find the following message on the net:

Hello all truth-seekers,

Smith and Hufschmid are telling the truth.

Christopher Bollyn
Everyone can create a message "from Bollyn"!
I firmly do believe that Smith and Hufschmid are telling the truth when they claim that the Bollyn family is MIA having followed them for a reasonable amount of time noticing them being on the spot with their research for almost 100 procent.
(EVERYONE makes mistakes some times of course but they seem some of the best truth tellers out there, go and see for yourself)


Why in the heck would anyone rational person want to convince David Duke of anything!? Why would any rational person want to go into that racist environment!? I don't care if he is on there promoting Israeli's involvement in 9/11. Him going on and promoting that theory just feeds into the lowest denominator of neo-Nazis that listen to Duke's program. Sorry, I find that admission highly appalling for anyone that wants to seek the "truth."

Ann Arbor Truth and Freedom
*My Views Do Not Necessarily Reflect The Views of The Group I Am A Part Of

what admission?

what admission?
By the way, you use a lot of dismissive retorical language:

" anyone rational / rational person /anything/ that racist environment / I don't care/ that theory/ just feeds /lowest denominator/ neo-Nazis / I find that admission highly appalling for anyone that wants to seek the "truth."

Your use of the word "sorry" is also interesting:
As in: "Sorry, I'm going to shoot you"
What's the point of such a sorry ?

generalisations...for ever

correction/addendum to my former statement: "trying to convince Duke of Israeli involvement in9/11 which Duke does not support."
Duke does believe in Israeli treachery by not warning the US of the attacks.
Duke does not support the inside job theory, he believes the attack was revenge (done by arabs) for US-intervention in the middle east and US-support of Israel through the Israel lobby. (this is in between the "they hate our freedom" and "inside job" theories)
Bollyn believes in an inside job theory aided by but not orchestrated by the US-government. Orchestrated by Israeli-zionists and dual Israel-US nationality zionists in the US-government
This theory is also referred to as "outside job"
(Of course he backs up his theory with facts, please watch this speech he gave at the constitution celebration in Salt Lake City )


Very important...

to stand up for free speech. I sent an angry email to the club owner and I encourage the rest of my truther brothers and sisters to do the same. I made the point that criticism of Mossad or Israel is the same as criticizing the CIA or the U.S, and legitimate criticism of either should not be silenced by accusations of anti-semitism. LET THE MAN SPEAK!!!

That's right


Now they are playing the anti-semitic card.... Figures, I guess the NWO boys are getting desperate.

"Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside." JFK

haha, they always play that

haha, they always play that card. and as you can see, it usually works flawlessly(Brainster) on fucking morons.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


...I don't think the Jewish protesters are so misinformed as to not know that there is nothing anti-semitic in Dr. Griffin's speech -- most of his speeches are on Google video. This is the same fallacy as assuming that our representatives in Congress don't pursue a new 9-11 investigation because they "don't know" about the blatant inconsistencies in the official story. As far as the protesters are concerned, it is their misguided belief, obviously, that uncovering 9-11 truth would somehow jeopardize the Jewish interests.

This is a-typical ADL tactics

Griffen is a guy who just takes the facts as they are and presents them. Obviously some of those facts surrounding 911 point in the direction of israel, more specifically their intelligence agency, the mossad as we all know along with our intelligence agencies the brits and the pakistani's ISI who are really just the defecated matter of the CIA. I think it's also apparent that the goals written in the israeli clean break papers have benifited from the aftermath of 911. Ironically the rebuilding americas defenses papers were basically a re-write of the clean break papers.

So I think we can all see why they would make such an effort to try and label anyone who questions 911 as anti-semetic, and why they would plant idiots like this stack guy to make it easier.

. What evidence

The million dollar question is What does that group have to gain for David Ray Griffin not making a truthful speech? There claims are bogus we all know David doesn't have a motivation to put down any race color or creed. There Might be some truth in 911 in which that group might be afraid of being exposed .

What evidence is this group using to justify there action.


the likudniks have just as much to lose from 911 being exposed as the MIC neocons, ect ect ect. ad infinitum

The Subject

The truth is out there.
Google 'Urban Moving systems'

Explain these guys - and your boycott.

chris bollyn on the run?

Bollyn came under attack by the state some time ago, and now seems ot be on the run:

Proof that there are many ways to censor real investigative journalists who step over the line.

The corporate media has done

The corporate media has done its job by equating 9/11 truth with anti-semitism. It is the same as metioning UFO's it turns people off to the subject before they even really look into it. Obviously some racism exists in any large sample of people. Blaming the jews as a group because of Isreali involvement in 9/11 is like blaming every american for CIA involvement in 9/11.

Poison Pill

I agree with your assessment pvtJoker. Many have already heeded the advice not to fall into areas that can taint our message. There are other blogs to rant and rave about Zionism (pro and con), so please fellow truth seekers, don't allow the tail to wag the dog. This subject does not help our cause in any way due to its odious association to an ugly past. Yes, Israel is one of the elephants in the room, but let it lumber to another circus, so that our show can continue. This subject is a poison pill.

This is not exactly what pvt

This is not exactly what pvt Joker meant.

He doesn't say that we should ignore zionism because of the connection the media makes between it and antisemitism. It's just the techique of the media, likewise they connected ufo's and conspiracies to 911-seceptisism/research to turn off potential new 911-critics !

We have to follow the evidence, wherever it leads, may it at first be controversial, in the end it will be correct !