Justin Raimondo is expressing his doubts on the OT

As Robert Fisk did two weeks ago, Justin Raimondo, the leader of Antiwar.com is now expressing doubts about the official theory on Al Qaeda and 9/11 :

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11584

"Al-Qaeda and the War Party: one could not succeed without the other.There is no conclusive evidence that this odd symbiosis is more than just ideological. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if it extended to the operational. The mysteries of al-Qaeda are intertwined with the unsolved mysteries of 9/11: how did 19 young men evade detection for years and pull off one of the boldest, most destructive terrorist acts in modern history? Or were they detected, and allowed to go through with their task?"

This is clearly LIHOP. J. Raimondo has never been a gatekeeper as for example N. Chomsky. To my knowledge, he has never attacked the 9/11 truth movement. But he never took side either. This is a very good sign that the truth movement is gaining momentum in the antiwar crowd. Encouraging, isn't it ?

Justin Raimondo

has referred to 911 truthers as tin foil hatters on many occasions.The guy is not to be trusted an inch.Everyone knows 911 was an inside job.You would have to have head your firmly tucked up yer arse for the past 6 years to believe the official crock of shit.

Anti war is a honey pot site.Every other month they ask for thousands of dollars in donations.Fake site.Fuck em.

here for example(and there are many more)

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j010103.html

The Steyn-Schwartz conspiracy theory that ties in the Bush family with the alleged Saudi government connection to 9/11 is shared by the Tinfoil Hat Left, which claims that the Bush family connections to the Saudis as well as the shadowy "Carlyle Group" and Big Oil, somehow "prove" that "Bush knew." In effect, according to the Reynolds Wrap Left, we bombed ourselves on 9/11. How long before Schwartz, Steyn, Taranto & Company starts marketing the dingbat-ism of Mike Ruppert, Cynthia McKinney, and the English edition of The Forbidden Truth?

The Steyn-Schwartz conspiracy theory that ties in the Bush family with the alleged Saudi government connection to 9/11 is shared by the Tinfoil Hat Left, which claims that the Bush family connections to the Saudis as well as the shadowy "Carlyle Group" and Big Oil, somehow "prove" that "Bush knew." In effect, according to the Reynolds Wrap Left, we bombed ourselves on 9/11. How long before Schwartz, Steyn, Taranto & Company starts marketing the dingbat-ism of Mike Ruppert, Cynthia McKinney, and the English edition of The Forbidden Truth?

right on, i totally agree.

right on, i totally agree. he is only tepidly broaching 9/11 truth now becuase people like us forced his hand and forced the issue. hes not to be trusted at all. im not saying attack him and shit, but lets not forget what hes said in the past.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

So ok ... it was in 2003

Ok the reference you give shows Justin Raimondo smearing Mike Ruppert and others. That is annoying because I myself consider Mike as being one of the 2 or 3 majors contributers of this movement with Griffin and Tarplay. However, Mike is not necessarily well perceived by a majority in 9/11 truth.

Perhaps we could give Justin the benefit of the doubt that he has passed the emotive barrier and is able now to consider 9/11 with his brain rather than his gut. At least, that is what he expresses in his last column.

i hear what your saying, but

i hear what your saying, but to me its just smacks of a cover your ass move. sort of like Fisk. you know these people see the progress thats being made by 9/11 truth, many of their own fans plead with them to be honest and open about 9/11. they see the polls, they hear from their fans about 9/11, they see more and more professionals coming to 9/11 truth. the tide is turning and they dont want to be on the wrong side of history. its one thing to be silent but to go out of your way to attack people who question the official story like a Cockburn or a Raimondo? i cant give people like that the benefit of the doubt. again, im not saying we should attack him and not utilize his statements but we shouldnt forget what hes said.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Perhaps we could give Justin

Perhaps we could give Justin the benefit of the doubt that he has passed the emotive barrier and is able now to consider 9/11 with his brain rather than his gut. At least, that is what he expresses in his last column.

Wise words.
--
11/11 Never Forget - Fetzer Flips
Zeitgeist Movie Torrent DVDRip (XviD)

full apology

tell you what if mr Raimondo issues a full apology for calling 911 skeptics tin foil hatters then I´d be the first to welcome him on board.Don´t hold your breath however.

no apology needed

Don't you think it's a little childish to be hurt by someone calling you a tinfoil hat wearer? I mean, if that bothers you enough to demand an apology from someone who might be waking up, the you probably shouldn't even be dabbling in free thinking. I can say I wear my tinfoil hat with pride. It deflects the propaganda from clear channel and fox news efficiently.

Justin isnt some nobody

Justin isnt some nobody blogger who doesnt have any influence. Justin relies on his readers for donations. im not saying this is the only reason he seems to be more open on the subject of 9/11 now but i would guess its the more likely reason if i had to pick between that and him waking up. i dont buy it. like i said, its one thing to be silent but its another to openly attack an idea because it threatens you. free thinking? Justin should be reminded about what that means. his website not only attacked 9/11 truth but ignored the enitre subject of 9/11 as much as it could.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

I think its far more

I think its far more childish to call someone a tin foil hatter mr cia man.

Justin and the Tin foil hatters

Here is another one from Gatekeeper Justin.

The neocons are promoting a Russified version of the "Bush knew" tinfoil hat conspiracy theories pushed by Michael Ruppert and the nuttier fringe of the "Anybody But Bush" movement, who essentially believe that, on September 11, 2001, the U.S. government bombed itself.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3598

Without disputing the basic facts – that we were attacked, that Al Qaeda has boasted of its responsibility, and that Bin Laden and his associates are at the center of the terrorist conspiracy – 9/11 revisionism allows for far more complexity. This automatically excludes, I'd like to note, such works as the book by a whacked-out French author that denies the planes ever hit the Pentagon, or other examples of the Tinfoil Hat Syndrome. These "alternative" theories of 9/11 are basically derived from some parallel universe where the laws of physics (and logic) don't seem to apply. I would call this crackpot genre 9/11 denialism, in that it entirely denies what we do know and tries to construct an "alternative" theory out of thin air.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2184

he sort of reminds me of Amy Goodman in a way.Same stable.

He is a Gate Keeper

My first hand experience with antiwar is that they are Gatekeepers.

Every article I have written, I have submitted to them and each and everyone was rejected for no good reason. I have even called them and bugged them about keeping certain truths away from their readers.

My recent submittals were, even though I knew they would be rejected, for the heck of it and tongue in cheek in a way. In my last email to antiwar I say:"It is a joke I have been using often, anti-war has turned me down so many times that I started believing I am pro-war."

We cannot compare Raymondo to Fisk, Fisk is at least risking his life covering Lebanon.

In peace
Maher Osseiran
www.mydemocracy.net

You may or may not be a good or bad or indifferent writer:

But wouldn't an editor's acceptance or rejection of your work be irrelevant to this discussion?

yawn.

No yawns here.

Raimondo would be a real asset to have on our side. He is a very good writer. Well informed and intelligent.

All is forgotten! Welcome on board Raimondo!

Yeah, really, where the f**x he been since 2001?

"And then there is the question of the second part of the terrorist campaign that was waged against the American people in the winter of 2001: the anthrax attacks. Were they the work of al-Qaeda, or of some other group that had an interest in terrorizing the American people?

I don't have the answers, I merely raise these questions in the hope of impressing upon my readers that much more remains to be revealed – and that we intend, in this space, to keep digging.

The whole story of how we were driven onto the path of war by a small yet influential cabal within our government is not yet known – but, God willing, some day it will be. "

"Keep digging", right! Jeesus. Justin Raimondo has had nothing but contempt for the 911 Truth Movement.

It really doesn't make any sense either because, if you are committed AntiWar organization, the best way to really disrupt the belligerance of the "War Party" is to vociferously and frequently question the government's version of the dramatic and historical events which kicked off this whole miserable Iraq War episode.

Even if you mostly believe that 19 arabs did the deed, there are so many unanswered and important questions that have been left completely unresolved, that if widely questioned, would considerably weaken the government's reliance upon its continually invoking of 911 for increased war expenditures, its manufactured environment of fear, and its threatening of civil liberties.

Where have these people been?

Antiwar.com or should I say .coN

is just that ,a con IMHO.Its´s a facade, a honyepot site.The weather vane of authenticity these days is a websites willingness to print the truth about 911.This also goes for so called mainstream media.

This will be useful in that it gives us more social proof...

We can quote what he said and use it to help awaken many more people.

Useful.

Justin is a very good writer

Justin is a very good writer and thinker. Having him on our side, or at least be willing to listen, will be a blessing for the movement.

calling people tin foil hat

calling people tin foil hat wearers is a sign of intellectual arrogance.911 truth do not need or require such characters.He is full of his own piss and self importance.A legend in his own bathtub.

newbies

There are going to be alot of new people coming around as we move forward. Attacking them for joining late or not waking up when we did is not going to further our cause. It should be a big tent or we are less likely to achieve critical mass.

I agree - seek to understand

It does 911 Truth no good service to judge people based on their past experiences and statements if there seems to be evidence of awakening. Change is always possible for these people. I was one of them in 2002 when i supported military action on behalf of 9/11. The road to full awareness wasn't overnight. It required many books and videos for me to develop a solid opinion to say that 911 was an inside job.

Raimondo may have said the wrong thing in the past, but it goes along with the universal stages of truth (ridicule, violent opposition, and finally acceptance) so let's offer what we can to help become a more critical thinker and not the dismissive type he's been in the past.

keep in mind that no one who beleives that 911 was an inside job has been "unconvinced" and converted back into acceptance of the official theory. Our numbers only grow. But that transition can be expected to be initiated by some ridicule such as the tin-foil-hat comments we've seen.

We're much bigger than the insult we might feel from these left-gate-keepers.

Peace.

it took me approx 3 weeks

it took me approx 3 weeks after the event to realize 911was an inside job.Owning stocks I was watching anxiously as the markets tumbled.Someone on a Yahoo finance board told be to look at whatreallyhappened(Riveros site) to learn the truth about 911.This I did and after some digging realized the attacks were not as we were told.So in less the month i came to the conclusion 911 was an inside job and I don´t even stay in the US,so you are trying to tell me a journalist like Raimondo does not know the truth!??get a life pal.

Are we ...

interested in patting ourselves on the back, or growing a movement toward a new investigation? Everyone in this country is bombarded by propaganda 24/7. It may well be that journalists don't have as much access to information, as they do preassure and bullshit.

Where exactly would you set the deadline?

So we should not trust anyone who took more than 3 months to come over? Or 3 years? Or----

again, its one thing to

again, its one thing to ignore us and ignore the 9/11 evidence but its another to openly attack people who question the specifics of 9/11. Justin did the latter. do you really trust him?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

I would trust him a lot less than a lot of people,

and a lot more than a lot of other people.

how Rumsfeldian of you. (i

how Rumsfeldian of you. (i kid!)

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

One (1) point for

sense of humor

3 weeks?

Impressive!

Were you by any chance born

prematurely?

you and Myra a team huh?

you and Myra a team huh? ;-)

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

I voted up every post in

I voted up every post in this string that dumped on Raimondo, but now am voting this one up, too.

He has been a real irritation for too many years. Think about it--an anti-war site that never even mentions 9/11, let alone 9/11 Truth? It is truly irritating, but you are right that we should be magnanimous and let the past go...

Another thought: Raimondo is a good writer, but the style he uses can be dangerous and may not be as "good" as it seems. Tarpley and Cockburn and many others use the same style--huffy, smart-ass, "I am smarter than you" tone, lots of put downs. When the writer is right and you agree, it makes for great reading (Synthetic Terror), but when they are wrong or on less certain ground that style bites 'em in the ass every time (Raimondo and Cockburn on 9/11, Webster in his Kennebunkport responses). This point just adds to why you are right about how to receive this type, but dang that guy has pissed me off!
________________

JFK on secrecy and the press

another antiwar site that never mentions

www.truthout.org

i use to read daily, but am so disgusted by their not touching upon 9/11. NOT EVEN ON THE DAY BEFORE~!

Psychological blocks (denial) can be very difficult to overcome.

One of my brothers, a very intelligent and critical thinking hardware and software engineer who lives in NY state, won't even look at WTC 7. He literally runs away from me when I try to bring up all the questions about the events of 9/11/01.

Perhaps Mr. Raimondo is just now starting to question his own denial. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and flood him with solid information regarding the events of 9/11/01. I would suggest starting with the Mineta testimony which clearly implicates Cheney. Reinforce his LIHOP awakening and then lead him gently to MIHOP, denial can be very difficult to overcome. This doesn't mean we have to trust him, but if we turn him to the truth and he starts writing/speaking about it, it will help the cause of truth and justice.

After all, how many of us trust Webster G. Tarpley at this point?

Any bridges we can build with the peace and impeachment movements, while not compromising the core 9/11 truth, will only help us.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

thats the thing, hes been

thats the thing, hes been flooded with all this info for years now. im sure many people on this board have flooded him. hes not a stupid guy. hes a smart businessman(which is what i think explains not only his previous silence and scorn for 9/11 truth but his tepid admission of LIHOP. it also shows how much progress 9/11 truth has made). by all means lets bridge whatever gaps we can with the general anti-war movement but lets not be naive. this guy is just doing whats good for business. we have made so much progress and are obviously co-opting a huge part of the anti-war movement and other movements. these people(Fisk,Raimondo etc.) understand this, some of them can feel it in their wallets. lets keep his feet to the fire.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Agreed -

Let's keep everyone's feet to the fire, in as civil a manner as possible.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

i would agree with that.

i would agree with that. lets be more civil than Raimondo has been to us and other "reynolds wrap" types in the past.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

51% of Americans want a new investigation into 9/11 - Zogby poll

Aluminum foil sales remain unchanged.

***smile***

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Why shouldn't we trust

Why shouldn't we trust Tarpley?

Have you been following the Kennebunkport Warning fiasco?

The kindest interpretation of Tarpley's recent and ongoing behavior is that his ego has gotten the better of him and that his judgment has been seriously compromised by paranoia.

Time and future actions will determine more accurately the meaning of Tarpley's behavior and his role in regard to the greater truth movement.

Let me add here that, until recently, I highly recommended Synthetic Terror, enjoyed seeing him speak in person on two occasions and had a memorable and delightful visit with him in his hotel room in Vancouver. He clearly has a brilliant mind.

9/11 truth is much bigger than any one person, even a very prominent author, and anyone who clearly goes out of their way to be divisive and destructive to the movement should only expect to be marginalized in as civil a manner as possible.

9/11 truth is on the brink of reaching critical mass, the perps know it and are pulling out all the stops. We're in for very interesting times ahead, brothers and sisters.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Not saying this is the case

Not saying this is the case with Webster, Jim, or anyone else, but we should all realize that one of the simplest ways to discredit someone is give them just enough drugs to make them discredit themselves. If you think this is outlandish, Google MKULTRA (and realize that what is known, though huge, is just the tip of the iceberg) or the drug BZ, which is colorless and odorless and is administered in aerosol form. A little spritz of BZ, or the like, in the car, office, or public restroom every few days will make it tough for anyone to look and sound reasonable. Our minds work in such a way that even if we are dosed with small quantities of BZ or the like, most of us will not suspect, but rather compensate by altering our sense of what is real and how to deal with it. Paranoia and delusions of grandeur would be two of the most basic compensatory behaviors. A short-fuse would be another sign. Please, let's keep this in mind both for ourselves and for the more prominent members of the Truth community.
________________

JFK on secrecy and the press

I would have responded with

I would have responded with similiar incredulity two weeks ago. I recommend reading up on the matter here:

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=22

I'm not an unbiased observor since Cosmos is a friend, but Tarpley has joined the ranks of Fetzer, Wood, Reynolds, Haupt etc. imo (incidentally, Tarpley just had Fetzer on his show, and his protoge Abrahamson just re-welcomed Haupt into the fold). I would not personally attend any conference where Tarpley was a featured guest. Oh and BTW, apparently the LaRouchies/no-planers are out in full force in NY spreading their junk.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Mineta is a good starting point

"I would suggest starting with the Mineta testimony which clearly implicates Cheney."

I'd like to advertize Sami's new video, which presents a compact and effective analysis of the relevant evidence :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7140292755378838617&hl=en

The video compares the two main versions of what was known about Flight AA77 on 9/11 before it allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. The versions are

(1) that there was prior awareness for up to about one hour before the crash about the flight at least with the military and the FAA and in the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, and

(2) that the FAA lost the flight for 36 minutes and did not inform the military or anyone else about it until four minutes before the crash. Three important statements by former Transportation Secreatry Norman Mineta are shown in support of the first version.

Tarpley

I think Tarpley is on the up and up. I personally don't advocate "no-planes" or "space beams" because I believe that building 7 is all we need to get a new investigation.

The days of people thinking we're nuts are behind us. That has been my experience as of late. I tell people, they get that shocked sick look and don't object much.

The "no plane" theory is not as crazy as it sounds and in his defense Professor Fetzer dedicated only one sentence to the subject during his presentation I attended several weeks ago.

I know I'm not crazy . . . neurotic . . . . a bit manic . . . . mildly paranoid (turns out not so much) . . . but I'm not psychotic . . . .

I have seen videos which suggest no planes or perhaps different flying craft. I have no way to evaluate it and I am "agnostic" about this theory. I have been called disinfo at this forum for stating such and I consider those attacks no different than the tin foil hat accussations.

I used to think Alex Jones was a nut, now I really wish it were true.

"I know I'm not crazy . . .

"I know I'm not crazy . . . neurotic . . . . a bit manic . . . . mildly paranoid (turns out not so much) . . . but I'm not psychotic . . . ."

Unfortunately, it is extremely rare to find a psychotic who actually believes him or herself to be psychotic. You sound lucid enough however so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and suggest you're merely misinformed.

You may be right that we're beyond the "nut" phase. I don't think so personally. Fetzer and Haupt are still being given a platform (by Tarpley, amongst others), plus I've been told that the 911 truth tables in NY are currently overflowing with LaRouchian cult literature. Again, not surprising considering that Tarpley was his senior researcher for 20 years. If you're cool with that that's your prerogative. I want nothing to do with it.

I also take offense at prominent spokespersons in the 911 truth movement burning bridges to our most important allies by labeling people like Cindy sheehan "wretched liars" and slandering hard-working activists as COINTELPRO with no proof whatsoever.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Why Chris?

Why Chris?

Chris should not have been voted down. That's my opinion.

He was just expressing his point of view.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Probably people were voting against Chris's OPINION,

not against his EXPRESSING of his opinion. And notice that his latest opinion got 7 votes. What more could one ask?

trust me Caveperson, its not

trust me Caveperson, its not always just about disagreeing with my opinion. as i said below there are some on this site who vote down virtually everything i type(for instance a comment about how the first responders that are speaking out are heroes. who would vote that down unless it was the person they were voting down and not the comment?) . some really petty and rigid people around here who hold grudges. im no victim though, im not the only one that feels the ire of the ruling crowd here.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

thanks Danse

many people here dont like me. im ok with it. theres at least a couple of people here who vote down almost everything i say, its pretty obvious to me(certain comments that would clearly offend NOBODY even get voted down). people around here hold some serious vendettas. im not gonna name names, but the "safe" crowd here cant stand me.(you know, the ones who think CD is hurting the movement and that the mere mention of Israel is anti-semitic, and that wanna play by the MSM's rules despite the fact that its rigged etc.) im "hurting the movement" and dont roll out the red carpet for frauds like Raimondo when they throw us a bone(in his own self interest).

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

IDEA:

Maybe vendetta victiims should be granted a 6-point handicap.

who is walterkarp? and are

who is walterkarp? and are you affiliated with him and caveperson in any way? just wondering....

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA