Quick observation about the Ron Paul crowd vs. the antiwar movement
By and large, the antiwar movement suffers from lack of organization, lack of cohesive focus, and infiltration/co-option at the highest levels.
To the contrary, the grassroots Ron Paul campaign is fueled by thousands of highly motivated individuals who have been coalescing into action-based local networks, mostly via Meetup, that have been doing serious visibility work similar to what truthaction.org organizes every eleventh.
If Ron Paul does not get the Republican nomination, his active supporters will likely want to keep pushing America in the right direction -- and the 9/11 truth movement, especially the Every Eleventh campaign, could be just the outlet they need.
Quality outreach efforts would be needed to convince many who are not yet on the same page we are, but an alliance with the Ron Paul crowd could have huge payoffs for the truth movement.
How about
a way to wake the Ron Paul crowd up to the fact that he isn't the Messiah and would not be able to get ANYTHING through Congress with the exception of a few theocratic laws like overturning Roe V Wade, Killing any and all hope for Stem Cell research and probably prayer in schools or other such religious bullshit allbacked up by Rethuglican lunatics.
ALL of his "Libertarian" views and ideas would have ZERO chance.
What needs to happen is a ground swell effort to kick every damn member of Congress OUT within the next 6 years EVERY single incumbent nut bag needs to be replaced on Both parties.
Most should be replaced with as many Green Party candidates as possible, THEN things can change.
Nothing changes until EVERYTHING changes that is just the way it works, may as well elect Steven Colbert as Ron Paul.
As it is right now the mainstream Media has already gotten Ghouliani "pre-elected", they have falsely made Hillary the so called front runner even though most Democrats don't like her at all, they have falsely made Ghouliani the so called front runner even though most don't like him either, they got their Neofascist tool Pat Robertson to endorse this Nazi yesterday and of course word will spread through the pulpit network of delusional psychotics to vote for Ghouliani so that will bring him close enough so that stealing the election will be like taking candy from a Democrat.
All they need to do is simply bring Tim Osman back from the dead once again to say BOO then maybe a quick week of false terror alerts and viola Ghouliani is in and probably wont even have to resort to actually stealing the election out right like they blatantly did in both 2000 & 04'. Ghouliani is even crazier than Bush so may as well get ready for it.
Naturally all of this bullshit could be taken care of in a good 3 day weekend if the 120+ Million Americans that already KNOW that 9/11 was an inside job and that both elections were stolen would get off their phucking asses and TAKE our Media back then TAKE our Government back but sadly this country has been whipped into a soft flabby bag of spineless submission over the last 60+ years of TV induced brainwashing.
So for the most part Ghouliani already has his business cards made up for 09' and 120+ Million Americans are all just going to stand around and watch it happen just like we all did in 00 & 04'.
It's quite disgusting.
Nunyabiz, you have a point
Ron Paul is NOT the Messiah and I believe he ALSO has made that point.
HE SAYS IT IS NOT THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION,IT IS THE PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION.
HE SAYS IT IS YOUR REVOLUTION.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0v3PpoivGA
Dr. Paul has open stated plans to SHUTDOWN the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the CIA!, downsize the Pentagon & the Department of Defense, MOVE ALL US TROOPS from FOREIGN BASES BACK AND PROTECT THE BORDERS,REPEAL THE P.A.T.R.I.O.T ACTS ETC ETC.
HE PROPOUNDS A HIGHLY CONSTITUTIONAL LIBERTARIAN VIEW.
He CANNOT ACHIEVE THIS without the backing of the Congress AND the Supreme Court. You are Right if you mean his efforts are futile if he doesn't get the backing of Congress & the Supreme Court.
I am sure he knows this.
Do we believe that the gatekeepers, the people responsible for all 3 Kennedy's being assasinated will sit idly by and let this happen?
Do we believe that the MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL-FINANCIAL-MEDIA-COMPLEX WILL JUST ROLL OVER AND LET HIM DO THIS?
It is UP TO THE PEOPLE.
RON PAUL IS NO MESSIAH.
HE KNOWS THIS.
HE IS RISKING HIS LIFE JUST TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS.
He has already said he risks assasination because of his anti-establishment ideas.
IT IS THE PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION.
UP TO YOU AND ME AND MANY MANY MANY OTHERS
My sincere questions now are-1) how do you expect 120 million odd Americans to do as you said.
To quote you:
"Naturally all of this bullshit could be taken care of in a good 3 day weekend if the 120+ Million Americans that already KNOW that 9/11 was an inside job and that both elections were stolen would get off their phucking asses and TAKE our Media back then TAKE our Government back but sadly this country has been whipped into a soft flabby bag of spineless submission over the last 60+ years of TV induced brainwashing."
How does one Take back the media and the Government over a 3 day period?
With BlackWater,DynCorp, the Armed Forces etc apparently behind the Bush Cabal, what can people do?
Pls see: http://www.warprofiteers.com/article.php?list=type&type=18
CSC/ DynCorp
The world's premier rent-a-cop business runs the security show in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the US-Mexico border. They also run the coca crop-dusting business in Colombia, and occasional sex trafficking sorties in Bosnia. But what can you expect from a bunch of mercenaries?
Pls see: Local Troops Deploy To Nation's Capital
http://www.wesh.com/news/13949580/detail.html
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Members of the 1st Battalion 265 Air Defense Artillery have mobilized and are on a plane headed first to Ft. Bliss, then for federal active duty in the capital region...................
The 265th is part of Operation Noble Eagle.
They are ordered by the president to the nation's capital, where they will operate high-tech weapons systems against any potential air threat.
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Short of an armed revolution, how is the Military Industrial Complex and an ALMOST COMPLICIT CONGRESS be Taken Back?
Do we believe an armed revolution will be a good thing? This is perhaps what the Bush-Cabal wants.
An excuse for PDD 51. Should we give them an excuse? Personally I don't think this is a good idea.
Perhaps it may be better to give Dr. Paul a chance to get the word out and get more and more people to realize that THEIR CONSTITUTION HAS BEEN HIJACKED.
Pls see: http://911blogger.com/node/12418
Al Qaeda? Are these people linked with the 911 Terrorists? 15,000 want off the U.S. terror watch list
John William Anderson, who was born on July 4, 2001, is on TSA's watch list. He was first stopped in 2004 when his mother and grandmother took him on his first plane ride to Disney World.
2) Second question, if I may respectfully ask, what do you think of Hillary's chances. If the left-right paradigm is just a show as most analysts seem to think, could a pro Military-Industrial Complex Candidate like Hillary be selected instead of Ghouliani?
3)The Green Party has raised a number of good issues however is it true they support a ban on guns?
How does this affect the 2nd Amendment? How are unarmed people going to protect themselves from the Tim Osmans, his masters, rogue entities like Blackwater & DynCorp?
I would appreciate it if you would clarify. Thank you.
Amendment II (the Second Amendment) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, declares a well regulated militia as "being necessary to the security of a free State", and prohibits infringement of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms."
You do raise some good points, my ultimate suggestion is that we need to tackle the entire Military Industrial Complex from as many angles as possible. There is no ONE PERFECT CANDIDATE, ONE PERFECT SOLUTION.
Different angles.
Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
Presidential Candidate Mike Gravel: "Eisenhower's Warning"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oCkgFr7CACY
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Well the majority of that
I can agree with, at least we are mostly on the same page.
Its not so much that I totally disagree with Paul (except for his religious crap) its that without a TOTAL change he will get nothing accomplished except his religious crap and that's bad.
How does one Take back the media and the Government over a 3 day period?
That is where MASSIVE revolt would need to happen, if 10+ Million storm Washington DC, then several million more branch out to all the Media outlets and let them know this is just the first wave there are 100+ Million more and we are armed and mad as hell and there will be no negotiations only demands then exactly what do you think they can do?
Problem is that this country has become worthless with only a tiny fraction willing to defend itself so when you say something about the 2nd amendment it really almost makes me laugh because most of those that fight the hardest for the 2nd amendment are really those 24%ers the Bushites & Christofascist lunatics.
Even mention armed revolt around here or most progressive or democratic sites/groups and you will be tagged as some "agent provocateur" or some such BS.
How about just a damn mad PATRIOT? Not everyone believes marching around in circles in a Sheeple pin singing Kumbaya or getting yourself arrested means a damn thing anymore.
We no longer live in a Democratic Republic, the MSM is compromised, there are zero checks and balances, the Supreme court is compromised there are no legal avenues left.
You have a point
Frankly I am very concerned about Dr. Paul's position on the VP's Impeachment.
What gives?
Why is he voting to table it and effectively delay it?
If anyone has any answers pls let us know.
NOW I am suspicious.
Will we ever get a Straightforward Politician or am I too optimistic?
It looks like it is back to the individual citizen to do the right thing.
When will we ever get the RULE OF LAW?
NOT the Rule of LIARS.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Wadr: You're dreaming
You're living in a fantasy land that is not healthy if you think anyone is going to get elected President that:
"...plans to SHUTDOWN the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the CIA!, downsize the Pentagon & the Department of Defense, MOVE ALL US TROOPS from FOREIGN BASES BACK AND PROTECT THE BORDERS,REPEAL THE P.A.T.R.I.O.T ACTS ETC ETC."
Even if there was a tremendous groundswell of support for him and he became the obvious frontrunner, he would be Wellstoned before the first primary, or if it happened after that he would not make it to the convention, much less the election.
It's okay to be an idealist, and an optimist, as long as you are also a realist.
A person like Ron Paul is much better suited to, and can be much more effective as, a Congressperson.
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Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Principle Investigator, Forensic 9/11ologist
It doesn't matter what people are saying, as long as they are talking about you. — Denny Crane
Ron Paul voted to table the
Ron Paul voted to table the Kucinich impeachment bill. WTF? Kucinich gave a fiery, impassioned speech on the floor detailing numerous reasons that Cheney MUST be removed. That speech should be the wet dream of every Ron Paul supporter, yet Paul voted to kill it. It was most likely the last opportunity to hold Cheney accountable for anything -- and for at least some nuggets of truth to come forth. What part of this doesn't add up and what am I not getting here? If he doesn't show his supporters that he has the guts to vote for something so clear and basic, why should he be granted a pass yet again?
Yes.Its a serious matter. Ron Paul supporters should question.
Ron Paul should be asked WHY he voted the way he did?
Shouldn't Dick Cheney be facing Impeachment over the lies over Iraq's WMD?
Has not the Vice President violated the Constitution over and over again?
What's going on? Can Ron Paul be trusted? Does he have a good explanation or is it just politics, excusing the CORRUPTION OF THE EXECUTIVE IN ORDER TO PLEASE THE REPUBLICAN BASE?
SOMEONE HAS TO SINCERELY AND SERIOUSLY QUESTION DR PAUL ON HIS REASONS FOR VOTING AS HE DID.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5279586.html
GOP tactic meant to embarrass Dems on bill to impeach Cheney
Associated Press
WASHINGTON — House Democrats on Tuesday narrowly managed to avert a bruising debate on a proposal to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney after Republicans, in a surprise maneuver, voted in favor of taking up the measure.
Republicans, changing course midway through a vote, tried to force Democrats into a debate on the resolution sponsored by long-shot presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.
The anti-war Ohio Democrat's resolution accuses Cheney of purposely leading the country into war against Iraq.
The GOP tactics reversed what had been expected to be an overwhelming vote to table, or kill, the resolution.
Midway through the vote, with instructions from the GOP leadership, Republicans one by one changed their votes from yes — to kill the resolution — to no, trying to force the chamber into a debate and an up-or-down vote on the proposal.
The Houston-area delegation split, with Republicans John Culberson of Houston, Michael McCaul of Austin and Ted Poe of Humble heeding the request to keep the motion alive to embarrass the Democrats.
GOP Reps. Kevin Brady of The Woodlands and Ron Paul of Lake Jackson voted to kill the measure, as did Democrat Nick Lampson of Stafford. Houston Democrats Al Green, Gene Green and Sheila Jackson-Lee all voted to keep the impeachment resolution alive.
"I believe that it is important that we hold our leaders responsible for their acts and their failures to act," Jackson Lee said.
Chronicle reporter Michelle Mittelstadt contributed to this story.
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Personally I am disappointed in Dr. Paul's vote.
This is not good.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Not only that...
....Dr. Paul did not vote on Bill 1955, the latest and most far reaching assault on our civil liberties to date.....what gives???
Dr. Paul owes his supporters explanations for his position on both these items.
9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars
Ron Paul...
HR1955, HR333 and Ed Schultz Show for 3 hours like Kucinich did. I would like some answers...
"The important thing is to not stop questioning" - Einstein
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" - Einstein
Many hands make light work!
RRREMA=realize, recognize, reconcile, educate, motivate, activate
I disagree with your basic premise
That "By and large, the antiwar movement suffers from lack of organization, lack of cohesive focus, and infiltration/co-option at the highest levels" and that Ron Paul's campaign is the purest and most ideal of paradigms.
The anti-war movement(s) do not suffer from any of your suggested faults any more than the 9/11 Truth and Justice movement does (or any other movements), or the Ron Paul Movement. (and it is a movement much more so than a campaign, imo)
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Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst, Correspondent, Principle Investigator, Forensic 9/11ologist
It doesn't matter what people are saying, as long as they are talking about you. — Denny Crane
...
I did not suggest that "Ron Paul's campaign is the purest and most ideal of paradigms", nor did I suggest that the 9/11 truth movement does not share many of the problems of the antiwar movement. Nor did I intend to start a discussion about his viability as a presidential candidate.
The Ron Paul movement is much younger than the 9/11 truth movement but has more people out on the streets taking action. They would make good allies because they are so motivated and self-organized.
I recommend Scott Ritter's book Waging Peace: The Art of War for the Antiwar Movement for excellent, constructive analysis of the antiwar movement's flaws, many of which are shared by the 9/11 truth movement.
There's definitely much we can improve
"By and large, the antiwar movement suffers from lack of organization, lack of cohesive focus, and infiltration/co-option at the highest levels.
To the contrary, the grassroots Ron Paul campaign is fueled by thousands of highly motivated individuals who have been coalescing into action-based local networks, mostly via Meetup, that have been doing serious visibility work similar to what truthaction.org organizes every eleventh."
The difference can also partially be explained as the antiwar movement is considered to be the more serious threat between the two, and therefore may be under more serious, sustained attack.
Also, don't forget, just because RP campaign doesn't look manipulated, doesn't mean it's not--or it doesn't have people placed to "steer" it.
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http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/