What Do We Need To Do To Make The NYC Ballot Initiative Successful?

If you're not aware, Dr. William Pepper has started an initiative to get a call for a new investigation into the 9/11 attacks on the ballots of New York.

I know there are problems as it stands right now (the writing of the petition, some of the people on the committee, etc...), and there are many obstacles to making it successful. I wanted to at least discuss it, and not let the idea fall into limbo. Several people I respect IMMENSELY (including Bob McIlvaine, and Lorie Van Auken) would like this to succeed, and I want to try and make that happen.

People in Vermont did manage to get it on the ballot, but unfortunately, they lost. I think it's possible that the outcome would be something VERY different in New York. The petition delivered to Spitzer's office was a failure. One of the main reasons for that was because one person got to decide whether or not they would give the petition the time of day. If a call for a new investigation made it onto the ballot's of New York, then the people would be given the opportunity to decide.

Thoughts? Ideas? Please don't say, "there's nothing we can do, it's hopeless." Thanks.


The election isn't rigged. :)

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Election Integrity is making progress there...

It's Official! Paper BALLOTS for the State of New York! ~ http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5922

Only problem

is that they are.

That's why some of us are not holding our breath on this.

It is a good initiative and all of us should support it.

But the spin doctors in Congress have a way of delaying justice.

And Justice Delayed is Justice Denied.

Frankly, and I say this with deep sobriety its going to take another 1776.

Dick Cheney isn't in prison because people like Skull & Bones have been controlling virtually all the Branches of Govt - be it the Executive, the Judiciary, the Legislative and very importantly the Media.

In this battle of incrementalism, we have to capture Hearts and Minds.

If we Love this Country Hard Enough, if we Care Hard Enough, we CAN Free Her.

How Strong is Our Love?

What is the height and depth of our Passion, Our Commitment for this Great Land?

Do we REMEMBER the Price that was paid by those before us for the Freedoms so many have taken for granted.

Had we been asleep for too long?

A drowning man will reach out an extended branch to save himself.

But he HAS to KNOW he is drowning in the 1st place.

The more Alarm Clocks we become, the better a chance we have.

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

MP3 Audio Clips - NYC 9/11 Initiative

Friday February 22, 2008
Air America's Richard Greene (Clout) talks to Les Jamieson about the NY 9/11 Ballot Initiative

(9 Minutes - 2.6 Meg)


Tuesday November 20, 2007
Les Jamieson and Christine Ebersole Talk About New York City 9/11 Investigation Ballot Initiative

(31 Minutes - 6.5 Meg)


You can start with a

You can start with a thoughtful, intelligent request that doesn't make accusations or suppositions, but points out glaring contradictions, unanswered questions, and abnormalities and then get that info out to people who will eventually be the deciding factor.

It's never hopeless.


A List Of Prominent Sponsors Is Needed

This sponsors list would include family members of those who perished along with experts from various fields. Any petition should also include any polling data indicating public questions, concerns or doubts regarding the 9/11 event, its aftermath and related investigations.

The goals and scope of an investigation should also be defined.

I bet a lot of

these folks would sponsor it.

A New Investigation Could Easily Be Obtained

If prominent leaders called for a consolidated effort of all other prominent skeptics and legions of other like-minded skeptics of the 9/11 event, to petition congress to reinvestigate 9/11, I believe Capitol Hill would succumb in short order.

The only thing that seems to have been absent within the movement is a collective call for a coordinated campaign by supporters to compel Capitol Hill to open a second inquiry.

The Jersey Girls were able to do it the first time. The legions who have joined the movement since can make it happen again if the right people in the movement directed the rest to undertake this task.

We've all done a terrific job of raising public awareness but seemingly not enough to compel the People's government to take a second look.


We could get the amount of people that showed up for this, and then some, and stand outside of the halls of Congress, etc... demanding truth and accountability, and a new investigation, who knows? However, let's focus on the initiative for the moment.

Edit: From what I understand, they are looking for 500 volunteers in NYC to get 200 signatures, or 250 volunteers to get 400 signatures.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

One Concern ...

Although it be a great benefit to have an official panel make a determination in our favor, any supoena powers of a new panel might only be limited to local subjects.

Having Silverstein deposed under subpoena would be quite interesting. Also, an affirmative search for those with new information regarding the events at the WTC seems in order.

Yet much of the most important information pertaining to 9/11 exists at the federal level, which may be beyond the reach of a local inquiry.

Not true...

...once February 2009 rolls around. Once the members of the Bush administration become private citizens again, they can be called in front of an investigative committee like anyone else, regardless of what state they live in, because 9/11 happened in New York, it was on their turf, it is their jurisdiction.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence

Great Clip on Garritano

Garritano represents the 9/11 Movement well. I found it disturbiing, though, how clear he made the declarations of no new investigation by all the members of the U.S. Congress from Vermont!

Vermont's delegation is about as free-thinking as they come, so if they're making such statements, they seems little hope at present?

You've got to wonder if they haven't all been sat down and made to commit to this stand?

The Clip is well done. The comments on anthrax and Pat Leahy are interesting! It's worth watching

...don't believe them!

same arguement as made for impeachment

william pepper and other commissioners are prominent leaders with integrity, greatly missing in the peace movement and legislative government reps. people thought the same about impeachment. when you depend on politicians and corporate media, you will never get support for an investigation or justice. However, from a public referendum, a grassroots action doesn't need to depend on government reps or the media to make an investigation proceed. It is not easy, but perhaps the only path is by a referendum vote by we, the people, or the citizens suffering greatly by the deceit and actions of 9/11. NYC is key for an investigation, and the truth movement is perhaps key to igniting the movement..

News fit to transmit in the post Cassini flyby era
<>~<>~<>~ www.FlybyNews.com ~<>~<>~<>
~~~ for life's survival in the 21st Century ~~~

Media Resources - William Pepper


(Someone please tell Obama not to stay at a motel with a second floor balcony)

Off Topic

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't place any faith in any candidate peddled by the major media, including Obama. He is a newcomer but not an outsider. He is surrounded by figures who've been around for decades. He (like other major figures) are simply appointed managers of the public. Obama has apparently been introduced by the establishment because the ruling class of the country seem to have detected the tremendous public resentment of the status quo and may have generated a controlled 'outsider' to regenerate public faith in establishment leadership.

He was promoted well before this election

As I recall, he landed on the cover of Newsweek within weeks after the 2004 elections. Not bad for a newcomer.


I would be thrilled if Jesse Ventura ran as a libertarian and would like to hear more from Cynthia McKinney . I really can't vote for a Democrat or a Republican again.

That being said, it would be tragic if something were to befall Obama. He is not the enemy. He is no sociopath.

Glad you brought this up.

Just a wild-hare idea here.

What might be needed is an individual willing to beat the streets everyday doing the petition door-to-door, house-to-house, business-to-business, person-to-person.

I realize that is a huge hat.

This means really beating the streets hard, everyday, all day.

And I don't have all the data, plus I am down in Texas. So, I may not know squat about the scene.

But I do know this...

...Our movement is made by individuals. It is the courage of the independent individuals who make things happen in our movement. (Sure, we unite as a group...but it is a group of STRONG-WILLED, independent-thinking INDIVIDUALS) Damn! Look at all the patriots in our movement. I have never seen so many heroes under one roof.

So, I am tossing out this idea. Somebody grabs the hat to wear it for the duration. They have to want to wear the hat.

They knock doors. Lots of doors. Others will join to help. A momentum could develop.

Some of us could try to toss some coin that direction for support, but I wouldn't rely on a "coin-bucket". Sometimes those kind of donation things do not work out well.

I do know from personal experience that a person can talk to a lot of people in a day, and it adds up quickly if done every day hard and heavy. I think other contacts along the way would help.

I may not know what the hell I am talking about.

It would take someone who really wants to wear the hat.

If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

...I just had one of those 'light-bulb' moments....

I just had a realization about something a bit unrelated.

When (or if) we pull this 9/11 TRUTH thing off...
...years down the line...
...History books will tell the story of how a huge portion of the population was deceived and fooled following 2001, and the struggles which occurred in order to wake people up....

So, can you imagine kids reading the story 50 years from now in their History books. They will look at the story and say: "Man, people must have been really ignorant back in 2008. They couldn't even look."

It is kind of how you and I used to read our history books about the people in the 1300's who were afraid of sailing off the edge of the world. I remember as a kid saying: "Man, couldn't they just look at the horizon and notice the curve of the earth as they traveled?! Boy, those guys just couldn't look, couldn't think it through. No guts."

Well, my great-grandkids are gonna be saying the same thing about this era. It is kind of funny in a way. Pretty stupid blindness going on in this age with the unawake masses. From a kid's point of view, it does look pretty silly here in 2008.

ha!...It was just one of those self-realization things. That's all. Ha! For me, it was kind of funny.

If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.


Sounds like we need someone with the experience who's succeeded in putting something like this on a ballot before. Knows the process, steps, etc. The people in Vermont succeeded in getting it on their ballot? Maybe in New York the procedure isn't too different. If we can't find people in New York with experience getting things on ballots, we need to find people willing to put in the time to study the process and go through the steps, overcome the obstacles, have determination etc.

www.911Truth.org figured out how to do a national poll and financed it. Maybe they'd be willing to help in this effort as well.

The Vermont Initiative...

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Let's put 911 Activism on a Permanent Basis

I don't know much of anything about grassroots efforts, so I would first of all point out the obvious, viz., groups that do grass roots activism, and are sympathetic to 911 truth, are good people to talk to. I suppose "We Are Change" are the first ones to talk to. Also, it turns out that Democracy for America is running their weekend class in running for office this very weekend in New Jersey. See http://www.democracyforamerica.com/training. From their website:

"Since its founding in 2004, the DFA Training Academy's mission has been to focus, network, and train grassroots activists in the skills and strategies to take back our country. Democracy for America's unofficial motto has always been "You have the power." The DFA Training Academy empowers ordinary Americans to manage successful campaigns and run for office themselves. Every weekend in cities across America, the DFA Training Academy is building a grassroots infrastructure of skilled progressive activists in all 50 states."

Maybe at least the Jersey girls could attend, and report back to us what tips they pick up in terms of making the ballot initiative happen?

I feel compelled to remind (or maybe nag) everybody that single issue activism - even if that issue is 911 - is very limited because activists don't make laws, nor do they appoint special prosecutors, nor do they conduct special investigations with subpoena power. At the federal level, those things are done by elected officials, in particular Congress and the Executive branch. Ultimately, all activists, regardless of what issue is near and dear to their heart, need to address the issue of how to get decent people elected to office, who you don't need to BEG to do the right thing. In my opinion, probably 90% + of Congress is easily guilty of having violated their oaths of office, in that they were OBLIGATED to have impeached Cheney and Bush, or at least try to, but have failed to do so. It's no wonder that they don't touch 911 with a 10 foot pole - they've betrayed the public trust in many other areas, also.

Furthermore, even if some 911 traitors are thrown in jail, what is to prevent another 911 from happening the very next day? There is systemic corruption in the US government, probably not much worse than any empire which came before us (read Noam Chomsky, e.g., on our similarities), and even a grand exposure of 10 or 20 traitors will likely not change the fundamental nature of the government.

But perhaps I digress too far. I consider the ballot initiative a very worthy cause, and don't want to discourage 911 activists as much as I want them to think deeper and more seriously about government reform.

And since I don't want to discourage 911 activists, especially if they're not psychologically prepared to adress the larger issue of SYSTEMIC corruption, let's consider further what '911-only' activists can do.

One essential ingredient that you need to do all kinds of good deeds in this world is MONEY. There are probably easily 100 million Americans who believe in at least LIHOP, one can just imagine the number of individuals across the globe who also believe this way. Why, oh why, in this day and age of the internet and paypal, can't we get 100 million people to chip in $1 per month or, say, $10 per year, to fund 911 research and activism? To put this in perspective, the NIST report cost $20 million. 100 million people dipping into their pockets and pulling out 1 measely dollar would fund 5 NIST reports, per month! And they wouldn't have to even think about it. Once they sign up, the money is deducted from their personal accounts automatically.

More to the point, I suppose, is why is nobody trying to first create such an organization and functionality, and then sign people up for such a program? Not everybody is in a position to pass out CD's or confront elected officials, e.g., or maybe they're just not inclined to do so. But there's VERY, VERY few people who can't afford $10 / year.

Part of the problem is that there just hasn't been a critical mass of mindshare (for lack of a better phrase) within the public consciousness for this sort of thing in general. Well, glory be, NOW THERE IS AT LEAST A 'ROLE MODEL', IN POLITICS. Thanks to Howard Dean 4 years ago, and principally Ron Paul and Barack Obama this year, we have seen how 'crowd funding' has finally come of age in politics. I'm not sure what the best place is to begin studying this, but dailykos.com is a good place to start. dailykos.com is not just about polls and candidates, it's also about ASKING PEOPLE TO CHIP IN TO FUND CANDIDATES.

So, to you and any other 911 activists out there, if you want 911 activism to be self sustaining, you need to study the application of crowd funding in politics, and apply the lessons. Somehow or other, you need to set up a legal organization that can take donations, and bill people's credit cards at $1/month, $5/quarter, $10/year, whatever. And you further need to allow them some latitude in how that money is used. Of course, you need a web site, also. Maybe 911blogger, itself, could be the sort of portal web site that the activist/financial organization mostly "lives" on, but a distinct, dedicated web site exists mostly to conduct business - explaining the concepts, presenting the projects, registration, functionality for directing funds, etc. In a sense, 911blogger.com could become the dailykos.com of 911 activism.

I will refer to the new, activist/financial organization that I call for, just for ease of communication, as 911kos, and it's website as 911kos.com. (No, those are NOT good names, but they'll do for the purpose of this post, especially since they'll remind people of the dailykos.com angle.)

If you can throw this together quickly enough, you could start the ball rolling with appeals for people to sign up and dedicate the lion's share of their first year's donation to the ballot initiative. As the Jersey girls have had national exposure, and most people still remember them, if they could make a brief video explaining A) what 911kos is all about and why it's necessary B) how crowd-funding has revolutionized politics C) what the ballot initiative is and D) asking people to contribute at least $10/year on a recurring basis, with an extra 1 time donation if they can afford it for a 'ballot initiative money bomb' , then I think this could go viral and be extremely successful.

I don't have a head for business, but the initial appeal for funds might have a suggested (and default) funding division amongst 3 911 projects that I can think of off the top of my head, that I consider important, viz.,

Project 1 - Ballot Initative (mostly to pay workers to collect signatures, I suppose), $5.00
Project 2 - Laboratory work on WTC dust sample, $2.00 (Professor Stephen Jones has mentioned that some of the research would go more quickly if some of the people working on this had funding.)
Project 3 - Verification of claims made by Daniel Hopsicker re associates of Mohammed Atta, $2.00

(The extra dollar would go for overhead, such as web hosting fees.)

I'm sure the founders of such a program can think of additional worthy projects, but you want to keep it simple in terms of an initial appeal, and having a simple set of default values.

I've long been fascinated by just how ineffective activists of many stripes are - 911 activists really aren't that different, in this regard. (If we judge the success of 911 activism by how many members of Congress are willing to admit that, as Max Cleland told us, the 911 commission report was a "whitewash", and furthermore that we need a re-investigation, we can only honestly conclude that the 911 movement has, so far, failed.) The meager results of activists, in general, is not simply by (repeated) accident, it also has to do with deliberate actions taken to sabotage the activists' efforts. I don't know a whole lot about this subject, but I know that you can read Chomsky, in various books of his on the subject of propaganda and "control of the public mind", to start grokking it from some perspectives.

Chomsky often remarks about the disempowerment that results from the sense of feeling isolated - even when polls shows that, on a given issue, your attitude can be the majority one! One thing that crowd-funding, and cyberspace 'gathering places' like dailykos accomplish is that people realize that a) they are not alone and b) by combing their efforts, however humble individually, they can have a HUGE effect

I think the least we can do for our country, for the memory of those Americans who died on 911, and for memory of the 100's of thousands of Iraqis who have died, directly or indirectly, in a war fraudulently justified by 911, is to get a 911kos and 911kos.com going.

If we do so, I think we'll find that not only we Americans who suspect the worst regarding 911 aren't alone, but millions of our brothers and sisters throughout the world will join us.

But first, we need to get organized. Correct?


How important is it?

The first question those involved need to ask is, "How important is this?" Is it important enough to temporarily abandon all other 9/11 truth activities to make this happen? I agree with one of the comments that the project needs a director and that it is a full time job. That's how these things happen. New York is a tough place with a lot of "attitude" -- within and outside the truth community. It's a tough nut to crack, but others have done it. I also agree that it is an "every day" endeavor, not once or twice a week. You'll need a mini army to gather the signatures and for that reason alone I think it is a worthy idea. Anything that forces us to pool our energies and push aside our misgivings toward noble desires will only serve us well now and in the future. Having listened to Pepper's pitch in Hartford (on video) I appreciate the merits of the initiative. But not everyone has seen that. A short (1 min) slick video promoting and articulating its importance might help garner some enthusiasm. But in the end, enthusiasm starts with enthusiastic, driven people and from there everything else is spontaneous and infectious. The Jersey widows and the original family steering committee members have already demonstrated what kind of determination is required to pull off something big. You have to eat, breathe and sleep it 24/7.

So I return to my original premise: "How important is this?" The more thoroughly you can answer that question, the more quickly and numerous the solutions to the obstacles will be. Sorry I have nothing more concrete than philosophy to offer, but my experience tells me that attitude and determination is everything. As it was with the Jersey widows originally, "defeat" cannot be an option. Any attitude that falls short of this will............... fall short.

On a practical note, you need to have 20-30 people out collecting sigs a few times a week and a handful out every day. There are a lot of activists within a 100 to 200 mile radius that might be willing to help if some housing was provided for those traveling long distances. Like I said above, you need a mini army of foot soldiers to stop screaming "inside job" and grab a clip board and gather names. As much as it pains me to discourage some activities over others, sometimes it needs to be done. Once people see others dropping out of one activity for another (like the initiative), it will catch on. We can't do it all -- at least I can't. So we need to prioritize and make our priorities obviously apparent by our actions, without apology. It takes people with guts. Just ask Lorie. Fortunately, we have a lot of them. Don't be afraid to say, "This is more important than anything right now," and be prepared to defend that position. It WILL work and there WILL BE a new investigation. It has already started.

Much to agree with, but...

"My experience tells me that attitude and determination is everything. As it was with the Jersey widows originally, "defeat" cannot be an option. Any attitude that falls short of this will............... fall short."

This is exactly the attitude I fear that people have in regard to this project and the movement in general. Hope is not a game plan. Determination is nothing without good strategy.

Now I would agree with your statement in regard to projects with no time based window of opportunity. For the Jersey Girls, defeat was not an option, and they fought as long as they had to in order to secure an investigation.

But defeat is most certainly an option in this case. Now, I might like to see the unprecedented monumental effort to collect signatures that many have recommended here. However, I'm very much hoping, on topic with this thread, that people are being more practical than motivational.

Optimism and encouragement are certainly important. But it seems we have lots of that and a bit less serious consideration about what is actually likely.

Good point, but...

Your point is well taken and my overall comment may be more appropriate for projects that don't have a limited window of opportunity. But, it could also be argued that the limited window heightens the measure of determination necessary to accomplish the goal. I drew my comments from experience in my personal life and what I witness in others and concluded that "determination" coupled with a realistic "attitude" is what separates someone with a good strategy from someone with and good strategy and the fortitude to make the strategy work. My main point is that we have limited human and financial resources and that sacrifice is necessary to make this happen, with determination making up for whatever is lacking. I guess in some ways it's a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario: Does determination spring from a good strategy or does a good strategy come from ones determination? Determination implies motivation and I'd personally rather work with people who are highly motivated who might lack strategical prowess than with strategical thinkers who lack motivation, though both are certainly necessary. In my own life, my greatest accomplishments happened because of my determination and not a grand strategy and often my strategy changed and morphed along the way in reaching the goal I was determined to reach. Others may have a different experience.

Likewise, in keeping with this thread, truthers in and around NYC need to be convinced of how important this is because ultimately a bunch of them have to be "determined" enough to get off their computers and get out in the streets collecting signatures.

FYI - Essential facts and pragmatic concerns

"We, of the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative Campaign, have initiated a petition drive in order to secure the required number of signatures of registered voters necessary to get the referendum on the November 2008 New York City ballot. We have until June 4, 2008 to do so."

"The procedure for any one proposed statute is simple. A total of 30,000 Petitions must be signed by NYC registered voters (and verified at the bottom of each Petition by another NYC registered voter). After these signatures are obtained, the Petition is submitted to the NYC City Council, which has 60 days to accept (i.e., approve the proposed statute) or reject the proposed statute. If the proposed statute is rejected, then the persons behind the proposed statute have to gather an additional 15,000 signatures within a 60-day period, and if this is accomplished the Petition should be placed on the ballot during the following general election for a Yes or No vote by NYC registered voters. If a majority of the persons voting on the Petition approve the Petition, it becomes a NYC statute."

"7. The Commission shall have a budget not to exceed $10,000,000 per year [for five years] for the conduct of its investigation and related activities. Financing shall be entirely drawn from private contributions. No public funds shall be requested or accepted...The work of the Commission will commence upon the expected realization of the full funds specified in our anticipated budget."
From the petition: http://www.nyc911initiative.org/PetitionFinal-01.pdf


Before the work of the commission can commence it must have reason to think it is going to acquire the total sum of an unprecedented budget. Before the commission can exist, the voters must pass the initiative. And before the voters have that option 30,000 signatures will have to be collected before June 4th and then possibly an additional 15,000 in as little as two more months.


I share this information not to suggest that this concept is impractical, but to point out that this particular attempt may not be able to succeed. That is my belief based on many factors in addition to those presented here.

However, it might be possible to acquire the signatures. I think a key piece of information we would need in order to determine this is how many signatures have been collected, and roughly how many of them people are acquiring per hour. With this information we might be able to estimate the number of people and work hours needed to succeed.


So that's me approaching this with a bit of practical rigor. Essential facts and critical questions. Lofty hopes and cheerleading do have their time and place. But this plan could very well take up a great deal of time and energy and so I think it very important to bring a pragmatic view to how we proceed.

You need 100,000 signatures...

...that's the first thing. Once that is done you have your work cut out for you getting the vote out. But for now massive signature gathering is required. Signature gathering is probably the second or third easiest activity of any activist, it just takes a little planning. Just be aware you will need at least 10% more than 100,00 signatures, maybe even 20% or 30% more, depending on the number of duplicates and refused signatures (and you can bet they will go over this petition with a fine-toothed comb.)

Some of the best places to gather signatures: Universities, outside office buildings, malls, shopping areas, movie theatres, sporting events (fans coming out of a rangers playoff game,) any 9/11 truth events like meetings or demonstrations, outside law firms (most lawyers will at least listen to any petition as long as they are not too rushed,) GROUND ZERO (just make sure the signers are new yorkers,) firemen and women, police officers, first responders, anyone who lost someone that day, the list goes on and on.

But the bottom line is there will have to be some planned events designed to raise awareness and gather signatures. Off the top of my head I can imagine the Jersey girls going down to new york tv studios giving interviews and maybe doing a few street events gathering signatures and raising awareness. On all of their appearances they need to plead for help from new yorkers to gather signatures and to direct people to nyc911initiative.org to download the petition and print it and the website should organize all these people who volunteer to help. Also maybe the organizations for the first responders can come out, to get some media attention to the issue and also to attract more signatures. Media attention is the key to getting a flood of volunteers to help the cause. There are 1001 way to get media attention in NYC. And with family members, first responders, and maybe even some celebrity help (alot live in NYC,) we can get this done.

I personally pledge to come to NYC to help out. We have until June 4th to do this thing. How many have we got so far?

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence

100,000 signatures? Source?

Would you mind providing a source for that figure? I looked this up and in addition to the source provided above also read a good portion of the New York State Home Rule Law #37.

That figure comes right off the first page of the NYC site:

Here's the plan. We must get 30,000 valid petition signatures of registered New York City voters as quickly as possible. To ensure we reach this goal, we are aiming for 100,000 signatures. Our target date is May 1st. At that time our petition will be reviewed by New York City Council. They will either approve it, or reject it. If they do reject it, we go back to the people for another 15,000 signatures which will then override City Council's decision.

The 100,000 figure allows for spoilage and the extra 15,000 needed to override. This is also the number that Les pitched to us on his west coast tour. This number was provided to him by a professional petition manager.

I hope that helps.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Thanks LW

50% spoilage? Wow! I'm somewhat familiar with the initiative process, and that seems a bit over-cautious. I've heard people suggest 25-30% But if a petition manager recommended it, I'll certainly defer to authority.

So, 100,000 by May 1st?

A couple weeks ago someone from our group asked one of the volunteers collecting signatures how many had been collected. The person said that it was about 5000. Maybe they were wrong.


Sounds like a great initiative to me. What will it look like? Can it be duplicated in other states? What is required? Or maybe it would be better to concentrate on New York.

William Pepper is a fine and courageous man.


ballot initiative drive

thanks jon for this question.. and for many of the replies, it deserves our attention since this action is only positive in that it raises awareness of the need for a new investigation, and that the action does not require corporate media support or politician's support. however i realize the mayor could stop the referendum vote from being listed on the ballot even if we get the required amount of signatures, but that would only increase the signatures resolve to empower an investigation anyway!

i think we need to focus in the month of May to get as many signatures and groups supporting this initiative as possible. a key group to join truthers and expand our base are with the folks supporting impeachment and ending the criminal wars.

however, overcoming mind control, as the article on Common Dreams gatekeepers suggests is not that easy.. even uniting with truthers on this initiative is a lot to handle. however.. les jamieson on a teleconference call in the "week of truth" campaign said they already collected 3,000 signatures.. which makes multiplying this 10-plus times with a united effort very do-able.. if we have the will and respect for people on the Commission, and for those dedicating their efforts with volunteers to gain the amount required.

For us who live outside NYC, we could hold events (fund raising), direct our friends, ask for nyc contacts, google nyc organizations, etc.. and do web networking..

their address is nyc911iniative.org which is prominent on my web site, but i have been told that 911truth.org is not on board yet, nor the next week of truth initiative, though a forum is beginning to discuss this at http://weekoftruth.org/forum

This project could also be helped with a month of truth on air america radio focusing on debates regarding 9/11, see: http://airamerica.com/clout/

The Air America month of truth came out of a failed attempt to get THE SHELL GAME to a top-ten listing in the NY Times. With only 1100 books sold this week, no way will it get listed anywhere in that list, though it was #31 before the week of truth when it first was published. This shows us how small and divided truthers are in making a 9/11 truth novel exposed. People almost rather focus on the problems of each campaign than its positive impact.

.. unless i hear better reasons NOT to support at least a month of effort in support of the NYC Ballot Initiative, I will do all i can via my web site and affiliated groups.

Following is my draft-letter proposal to engage peace activists to join in this campaign. This is for a conference this weekend regarding how to stop the wars. But after last night teleconference, i may hold back on making this proposal to see what unity and support exists for this effort in the 9/11 truth community..

1. Title of Action Proposal: 9/11 Initiative for Peace

2. Summary:

The peace movement has failed in stopping an illegal war for more than five years. Campaigns for impeachment and stopping taxpayer funds from continuing the quagmire has failed. But what had been used to begin endless wars, 9/11, could be key in ending the madness.

There is already a grassroots action (nyc911initiative.org) to obtain an honest, independent investigation of 9/11 by placing a referendum on the NYC ballot this Nov. 4th, 2008. This would allow registered New York City voters to create a new Commission and investigation.

This action will not need support from politicians or corporate media to succeed. It only requires the peoples’ will to unite, to vote, to work together for mutual interests. Martin Luther King died for civil liberties and taking a stand against a foreign corrupt war. His words must be heeded: “Without justice, there can be no peace.”

3. Goals of Action Proposal

The goal of this proposal is to help gather 100,000 NYC voter signatures in May 2008, and support a yes vote for a new 9/11 investigation. It is a narrow focus, but is there any other way besides from the aid of government or media to answer unanswered questions and reveal evidence of the 3 World Trade Center buildings collapses that day by explosives. Experts are waiting to testify from their independent research. On April 19, 2008, Dr. Steven E. Jones, after submitting a half-dozen papers to established peer-reviewed technical journals over a period of nearly a year, had announced two scientific papers, which have been accepted for publication. Actions for a new 9/11 investigation will expose this and other information showing government complicity in the events or cover-up of what happened on September 11.

Following an investigation by a new 9/11 Commission, which is not hand-pick by George W., like uncovering the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain, finally, truth will be revealed and the events of September 11 will lead to justice and peace. One of the lead people on the proposed 9/11 Commission is Dr. William Pepper, a barrister in the United Kingdom and admitted to the bar in numerous jurisdictions in the United States of America. His primary work is international commercial law and practices international human rights law from London. Dr. Pepper was a friend of Martin Luther King in the last year of his life. He represented James Earl Ray, attempting to get him the trial that he never had. Dr. Pepper then represented the King family in a wrongful death civil trial King family vs. Loyd Jowers and other unknown co-conspirators. During a trial that lasted four weeks he produced over seventy witnesses. The jury took less than an hour to find in favor of the King family. He is the author of four books including "An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King, Jr."

[Other individuals agreeing to be Commissioners are posted: www.nyc911initiative.org/commissioners.htm ]

4. Description of Action Proposal

September 11, 2001 has not really been officially investigated, covered-up perhaps, but not really investigated. Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a May, 2006 Zogby poll revealed that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated. An earlier Zogby poll of New York City residents, from August of 2004, found that Half (49.3%) of New Yorkers felt that U.S. government officials "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act." While 66% of New Yorkers called for a new probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General. But having a majority, as the peace movement realizes, is not enough to make Congress act. By directly asking NYC voters to act, everything can change.

We will need activists to go to NYC to help get voters to sign the petition, promote events to raise funds and awareness for the Ballot Initiative, and bring the peace movement and 9/11 investigations to work together for mutual interests in rallying a democracy of we, the people, to take action for the truth will set us free, and continued lies will manipulate a quagmire for years longer.

5. Specific Activities involved in Proposal

People can download and sign the petition at www.nyc911initative.org, but one needs to be a NYC voter-resident for a signature and address to count. We need ambassadors from the peace activist community, like PDA, to work in a united front to convince other peace activists especially in NYC to support the gathering of signatures. We can network on the web, getting 10 people to sign and mail in the petition, then urging them to repeat the process by getting 10 others to do the same. They must be registered New York City voters from any of the 5 boroughs. Timing is of the essence. If 500 people aim for 200 signatures, we'll have our 100,000! If you belong to an organization who will endorse this campaign and notify their membership that could start the momentum. Fortunately a lot of organization and efforts are in place. What is needed is grassroots support.

We will need to raise thousands of dollars for advertising, printing, and related expenses. No donation is too small, and a tax-deductible contribution can be received for this endeavor. Fundraising is key especially for those away from NYC..

6. Target Constituency

9/11 truthers, peace, justice, and constitutional rights activists. This
proposal is seeking support of New England United to make this action
successful by uniting with the peace activist community. The 9/11 truth
community is limited by its small group, and the weight of being called a
“conspiracist” in degrading matter. Joining with the peace activist
community we can better overcome the stigma of dealing with such an
uncomfortable issue, by exposing a possible criminal government-media
conspiracy. But if we succeed for a real investigation, no longer will
9/11 be used in a corrupt manner for false patriotism. Building 7 of the
World Trade Center is still unexplained by official sources, even while
the BBC reported its collapse with the building still standing in the
reporter’s background. We must deal with this issue to stop the harm
from one day leading to endless war, bankruptcy, and martial rule, before
it is too late.

7. Audio Visual

If time is available, we could show part of a DVD with the BBC reporting WTC-7 collapse with it still in the background, or other films revealing anomalies and unanswered questions needing to be answered. This is the time for unity and integrity to bring many peace and justice movements together for a new investigation.

News fit to transmit in the post Cassini flyby era
<>~<>~<>~ www.FlybyNews.com ~<>~<>~<>
~~~ for life's survival in the 21st Century ~~~


If there are only 3000 signatures collected, could you tell me if there is any precedent for a group having collected 97,000 signatures in five weeks?

Don't you think that strategically speaking it would be best if the WOT actions were not centralized and not aimed at projects with a built in potential for failure?

There are many reasons not to support the ballot initiative. Have you been looking for those opinions or waiting for people to offer them to you?

Do you think it is appropriate to post a list of people who may or may not have been on the last conference call and who may or may not want to support the ballot initiative? I know a couple who won't.

And here are some reasons for concern:


Initiative benefit/rally at St. Marks Church

On Wednesday,April 30 there will be a rally/fundraiser at St.Marks Church on 10th Street and Second Ave.Among others,Ralph Schoenman,Mya Shone,Bob McIlvaine,Lynne Stewart,Bill Pepper and,of course,Frank Morales will be there.What the ballot initiative could use is people to help spread the word to your friends and allies in New York City and encourage them to sign the petition and volunteer to hit the street and obtain signatures.There are various strategies to reach people through mailing lists,etc. but the ultimate reality is that we need to get out into the public,face to face and get the signatures.We can do it,we have been doing it,but we need more people involved.So,come on Truth gang and get on board.It could make a big difference.Thanks,Jon Gold for speaking up about this.

hello Jon

Hey, I just made a promo video for the ballot initiative which you can view here..


the most important thing is publicity amongst new yorkers and people out on the streets petitioning

Hire full time petitioners...

Realistically, going by the numbers, it will require at least two dozen full time petitioners (paid or unpaid) to stand on street corners in NYC and get signatures...

To get 80,000 signatures (a cut above the 50,000 or so required signatures):

30 signatures per person per day (for 5-6 hours of hard work)


24 people


112 days (nearly 4 months) - INCLUDING Saturday and Sunday


80,000 signatures

30 signatures per day????

I don't want to come off as condescending but have you ever gathered signatures before? You can get a hell of a lot more than 30 in 5-6 hours. I'd say closer to 150 based on my experience passing around petitions. I got 25 for a petition here in Canada in a little under an hour. In NYC where most people know the truth about 9/11 based on polls, I'd say we can do similar numbers there.

Jon if you aren't going to reply to any of these ideas why is anyone going to bother replying to your post? Start a dialogue please for heaven's sake. What do you think?

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence




Les is the volunteer coordinator for this effort. I see him and about four people in Union Square every couple of days. They stay for a few hours. They've been at it four at least a couple of months. They have collected about 3000 signatures. They certainly are trying.

They definitely are not collecting more than five to ten signatures an our each.


Jules,we're out every day.You see us at Union Square every other day,or so,because we are out at Union Square every other day,or so.We are all over town the other days.Also,although you are correct that we are at around 5,000 so far,you're incorrect in saying we only get five or so an hour.Just yesterday,we got around 100 in a couple of hours at Union Square.Come on out and get a few yourself,you seem to be right there to observe us.Why not help out by wielding a clipboard,wherever you are?We have until the end of June,by the way.Don't forget the benefit/rally on Wednesday,the 30th.We can use everyone,including We are Change.John Feal will be at the rally.Maybe it's time everyone came together for this in NYC.It's a large task,but with numbers we absolutely CAN do this.

Working AND critiquing,a novel approach

Jules,I went to your site and you spend an amazing amount of time trashing every aspect of the petition drive.Why do you even comment on it? In the interest of full disclosure why don't you say that you are actually against it's success and you won't raise a finger to help in any way.Just to keep you posted,this past Saturday,my friend Steve and I went to an Indian Powwow in Inwood Park and got over 100 in about three hours.Tuesday,three of us were at Hunter College for just over three hours and we got exactly 97.Yesterday we were at 79th and Broadway for three hours.We got 70.That's just the past few days and just me and my small crew.There are other crews manning the Staten Island Ferry,Union Square and Stuyvesant Town on 14th Street and 1st Ave.We're actively recruiting people to make up other crews.Why don't you help out instead of trashing us from on high? Some of us have children and limited time to get on the street.Where are you and TruthMove? We have 7 weeks to go and we can do it with help from people like you who know what needs to be uncovered.

Amy Goodman, "Democracy Now!" and the NYC ballot initiative

At the end of Ms. Goodman's recent appearance at Modern Times Bookstore in San Francisco a group of us approached her to get her on the record regarding the need for a new investigation. Cosmos asked her directly if she thought we needed a new investigation (yes, there is video) and she replied that she thought everything about 9/11 needs to be investigated (cosmos had led with a question about WTC 7).

I asked her if she was familiar with Dr. William Pepper and his new book, she lit up and said she was very interested in his book. I suggested to her that she have him on the show and that she also endorse the NYC 9/11 ballot initiative. She then hurried away with one of her handlers without further comment.

I think one thing we could do, as part of a formal Week of Truth or just informally and beginning immediately, would be to contact Ms. Goodman and Democracy Now! and ask her to have Dr. William Pepper on her show to talk about his book and the NYC ballot initiative.

I sense that she knows she has lost credibility with many of her viewers over 9/11, but is not willing to do more than call for new investigations at this point. Her own limited hangout, so to speak.

Thus, by encouraging her to have Dr. William Pepper on the show and giving him a chance to promote the NYC ballot initiative she can save face and still maintain a reasonable distance from an issue she clearly doesn't want to touch yet.

She is in LA right now, so maybe some of WAC LA can follow up on this today and tomorrow.

Everyone else can use their contact page:


Be brief, to the point and polite.

We need to make the most of every opportunity, brothers and sisters.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Jules and ACTION

Jules,just to keep you updated,Sax,Drew and myself collected 90 signatures at City College at 137th Street in three hours,yesterday.7 of us have been at the Staten Island Ferry for the past two nights and have obtained OVER 100 on each night.I'll be at Columbia University tomorrow with a couple of people.(116th and Broadway).Why not stop by and wear your sandwich board,it could help gain some attention for our effort.I'm sure the Jersey Girls and many,many victim's family members and first responders would be appreciative of your time.Remember,they are what this whole movement is about.Please unfurl your banner for the courageous victims who are calling for a new investigation,not just for your website.