Pentagon 9/11 Flight 'Black Box' Data File Created Before Actual 'Black Box' Was Recovered?

A flight data file created by the downloaded Flight Data Recorder information of American Airlines flight 77 was created on Thursday, September 13, 2001 at 11:45pm.

However, as reported by USA Today, Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance reported that the FDR for AA 77 was recovered on Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am, 4 hours and 15 minutes after the creation of the AA 77 FDR data file.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Searchers on Friday found the flight data and cockpit voice recorders from the hijacked plane that flew into the Pentagon and exploded, Department of Defense officials said. The two "black boxes," crucial to uncovering details about the doomed flight's last moments, were recovered at about 4 a.m., said Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance, a Pentagon spokesman.

The AA 77 FDR file was contained within a May 2008 release obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request of the National Transportation Safety Board.

Thats pretty close though,

Thats pretty close though, could be a timezone thing. Maybe the blackbox data was sent somewhere a few timezones away where it was retrieved.

Uncertain Of The Implications Or Cause

The FDR was received on 9/14/2001 at the NTSB VRD according to the NTSB AA 77 FDR report.

The address for this facility is within the same time zone as the AA 77 crash scene:

Vehicle Recorders Division
Washington, D.C. 20594

Are you trying to make a joke?

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UA 93 FDR Discovery And FDR File Creation Times

These FDR discovery and file creation times make general sense:

According to the NTSB FDR report for UA 93, the device was received at the NTSB VRD on 9/13/2001.

Investigators locate 'black box' from Flight 93; widen search area in Somerset crash

Thursday, September 13, 2001.

By Tom Gibb, James O'Toole and Cindi Lash, Post-Gazette Staff Writers

Investigators this afternoon discovered the "black box" containing flight data recordings from United Flight 93 at the crash site in rural Somerset County. Pittsburgh FBI spokesman Bill Crowley said the flight data recorder was found about 4:50 p.m. in the main crater at the crash site, located near Shanksville.

First, I didn't mean to be

First, I didn't mean to be too dismissive in my comment below. I'm trying not too jump too eagerly on the 'it's a psyop' explanation. But we see Flight 93's FDR timeline making sense - it took nearly a day from discovery to reading/modification, and in the Pentagon attack, an anomaly! Imagine that... A purposeful alteration of the time is really the simplest explanation, and I can think of few reasons to shift it back except to create confusion around the data. It wouldn't be the first time.

But comparing 93 and 77, another explanation arises - the time is correct but not the date, by whatever reason.
93 FDR discovery: 9/13 4:50 pm
93 FDR file modification: 9/14 2:18 pm
Difference: 21h28m
77 FDR discovery: 9/14 app. 4 am
77 FDR file mod: 9/14 11:45 pm
Difference: app. 20h

Similar processing times would then line up.

In this Alice in Wonderland world

In this Alice in Wonderland world, Lt. Col. George Rhynedance's report of the impossible time the "black box" was "discovered" - just "proves" "the incompetence" theory.

"Obviously," the Colonel's report was just a "cock up" (as the BBC said) with respect to Jane Stanley's reporting WTC 7 having collapsed while it was still standing.

Or - like Arron Brown of CNN reporting the collapse of Building 7 while it was still standing.

Or - like Bush telling the town meetings in Florida and California that he "saw the first plane hit."

Or - like Rumsfeld saying: "the people who shot down the plane in Pennsylvania."

Or- like Rumsfeld saying: "the missile that hit the Pentagon."

Or - like Lee Hamilton and the Boyz saying that Cheney didn't arrive in the Bunker till about 10 despite Norman Minetta testifying that Cheney was in the bunker at 9:28.

The "incompetence theory" is a stroke of genius - as it is a way to cavalierly dismiss any and all evidence while simultaneously stroking the ego of the pubic who can imagine themselves to be much smarter than those "incompetent" fools in power.

However, the "incompetence" theory is wearing very, very, very thin.

This is another great job by Aidan.

Yes, and Micheal Moore reinforced the incompetence theory

in Fahrenheit 9/11 by releasing the video of Bush remaining in the classroom like a fool.

Instead of pointing out that all protocol + common sense were abandoned for unknown reasons that day, Moore just mocked Bush as an incompetent idiot who, "didn't know what to do."

Lots of otherwise intelligent people in the movie theater laughed at the Bush buffoon, instead of realizing they were being sold the biggest lie ever told!

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More obfuscation being used to imply that AA-77 is what blew-up

the Pentagon. Seems to have backfired on them.

Sure, the black boxes were recovered from the commercial airliner, 63 of 64 passengers were identified by fragile DNA, yet the plane itself was obliterated, including the 2 virtually indestructible steel/titanium engines, the 250 seats, the luggage, etc.!

Everyone should do his own research into what really happened at the Pentagon.

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Just to be objective,

Just to be objective, “date modified” isn’t the same as “date created”. The two dates aren’t always going to be the same. It could be that the file was created at an earlier date and was subsequently changed (or modified) in some matter days later.

Key Is That File Creation/Modification Was Before Box Was Found

Presumably, time to transport the FDR to the VRD and then remove the electronic recording device from the FDR chassis and then download the data into a completed file probably required at least one hour, which then arguably extends the time differences to more than 5 hours between listed final file modification time (11:45 on the 13th) to the presumed actual time of download (5am or beyond on the 14th)

Hello AidanGood work

Hello Aidan
Good work getting these files again. As you may know, I requested files too, but got no files at all. The NTSB stiffed me! They do weird things! However...

Here I'd guess it could be as mundane as a grossly off computer clock, or something. Do we know that it was 'received' by that person before it was read anywhere? (sorry if the answer there is obvious). Can files ONLY be created by reading the FDR, or did some tech get nes they just found the box at, say 11:40, and created a blank file ready to fill in when it got there? Other possibilities...

Main thing is this - if they created the data before 'discovery,' that casts doubt on the discovery altogether. So if they invented the FDR location to cover for the faked data, why would they select a TIME for 'discovery' AFTER the file creation time? That is, however it happened, this smacks more of some sort of goof than any kind of cover-up.



It reflects poorly...

...on the government.

"Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance reported that the FDR for AA 77 was recovered on Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am, 4 hours and 15 minutes after the creation of the AA 77 FDR data file."

It casts suspicion when a file is modified before it was found?

...don't believe them!

I doubt that this is the smoking gun...

If we assume that they made the thing up, changing the creation/modification date is the easiest -- any schoolkid with proper software can do it. Curious, why would they let an obvious thing like that slip through?

The same with Pentagon video. The frames show evidence of tampering, however, the easiest to tamper with would have been the date and time. Why didn't they bother to print the correct date and time?

Both of these make me think it might be purposeful.

D/T is red-herring

I wouldnt read anything into the fact that the creation (date/time) D/T is before the actual recovery or delivery of the black boxes for the following 2 reasons:

1) An empty file/folder probably was created as soon as the event occured and awaited the eventual
recovery of the black boxes. For a land crash, recovery of the black boxes and the extraction of the FRD is almost a given - just a matter of locating the almost indestructable black boxes from the wreckage path.

The authenticity of the data contained in the files/folder is a completely different matter and unrelated to the D/T of the file, especially because of reason 2:

2) Any Create/Modified/Accesses Date/Time can be placed on a file or folder at any time. Here is the actual
WIN32 Api call to do just that:

The SetFileTime function sets the date and time that a file was created, last accessed, or last modified.

BOOL SetFileTime(

HANDLE hFile, // identifies the file
CONST FILETIME *lpCreationTime, // time the file was created
CONST FILETIME *lpLastAccessTime, // time the file was last accessed
CONST FILETIME *lpLastWriteTime // time the file was last written

Jerrymandering the D/T value is childs-play and any novice programmer can do it. This is a red-herring issue and of no probative value as the the veracity of the actual data unless a VERY unlikely event occurs..

Speaking as a lawyer now - read carefully:

Only if in a court of law under oath when chain of custody of the FDR is argued will the date/time of the file become a POSSIBLE issue. If the FTSB or FBI (whom ever created the file/folder) testify that the reason 1(from above) is true, then the date/time of the file/folder becomes a non-issue. If they do not testifiy to something like reason 1, then the difference of the date/time WILL become an issue over the authenticity of the contents of either the FDR or the file(which is "an electronically generated official document which purports to represent the actual contents of the FDR".

I seriously doubt that any official (especially one involved in the 9-11 coverup) would EVER testify to anything other than reason 1 - their ass would be on the line and failing to say reason 1 would bascially open up the whole 9/11 coverup to discovery and the official to hard jail time and probably something much worse!!!

It would be wise for multiple individuals make mirrors of the site content incase the day occurs that the issue of the authenticity of the the FRD ever makes it to court. The government could probably claim first that the dates were otherwise, forcing the 9/11 truth side to prove that the dates were as we see them now. Once that issue is decided in the favor of the 9/11 side (through submission of the mirror contents), then the government would probably testify that reason 1 occured. Tthe collection of potential evidence now is always a good idea (read the PNAC website blog entry for why).


Realize who we are dealing with: the perps who masterminded, engineered and carried out 9/11 are either:

A) ignorant goverment/contract stooges who are more scared of the 9/11 masterminds than the court of law. or
B) the actual narcisstic, a-moral, stupid, facist masterminds themselves. Do not underestimate the
a-moral ruthlessness of these people. The mafia looks like a boys club to these patholical liars and killers.

Destroying of great country - its soldiers, its economy, its moral bearings means nothing to the 9/11 perps.
Destorying a country with an ancient history and millions of civilans doesnt bat an eyelash with them and serves as fodder for inside jokes.

Destorying the general state of the world economy and the humanitarian costs associated with the destruction is irrelavent to their mindset and lack of moral character.

Courts give you jail time, the 9/11 criminals put you in a hole 6-feet deep.

Why Would File Creation Times Be Tampered With?

And tampered with to reflect an obviously incorrect time?

The most likely yet unconfirmed scenario is that the system in question generated the wrong time.

I'm trying to obtain that answer from the NTSB.

You're overlooking the obvious...

While I agree the data recorder is of little "legal" value, it still reflects poorly. You made the statement:

"1) An empty file/folder probably was created as soon as the event occured and awaited the eventual..."

Still, the time of the creation doesn't agree with the date of 9/11 since I believe it's stated it was recovered some days later?

It still reflects poorly.

...don't believe them!

Even easier...

... than using Win API is to use a disk editor. No programming required.

The reason is in my orginal post title - red herring

This is just an effort to direct your attention toward unproductive avenues. You can not prove motive or plan by using descrepancies such as this. As long as there is a plausable explanation that does not involve
motive or plan as to why the descrepancy COULD have occured, the mere fact that they exist will be insufficent to prove an existence of motive.

Efforts that are directed towards inconsistent statements, contradictory evidence, missing evidence, improper handling of evident, mis-indentification of evidence is what will payback in the future. Do not get sidetracked from the fruitful endevours by what probably are conscious efforts to direct your investigation
away from the danger zone.

Remember, the preps behind this know what you are doing. They keep tracks of this site and they know who is posting here in a general sense. This date/time issues smacks of a false-flag op/setup. As I said and other poster further elaborated, the date/time can be manipulate to reflect any value by just about anyone.

The whole black-box-story

does not add up.

Not only the time-discrepancy that you have figured out looks suspicious, the question of when
and where it was found is very suspicious, too. Apparently, someone is lying in regard to the
black-boxes. My bet would be that Kilsheimer is the one who is lying and deceiving the public.
And his version of events became later the official one, used in the Pentagon Building Performance Report.

Please read in this article

this section: "The conflict of the official account with crash site observations"

You can find it under the chapter "Let's look into another aspect of the maneuver-scenario"

(Please note that the picture of the black box I used was taken from cooperative-research. I recently became aware that this is not the original picture. Anyway, this does not change the fact there there are two stories - only one can be true).