Dr. Peter Dale Scott On Air America's Clout - 5.22.2008

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Edit: Here is the first half of the show:

Dr. Scott,

You gave an absolutely brilliant performance tonight. You proved beyond the shadow of doubt that "Knowledge Is Power". Thank you for your contribution to this country, and to this planet. It is an absolutely priceless one.

Sincerest Regards,

Jon Gold

That is the email I sent Dr. Scott after last night's performance. This is not the entire show from yesterday. I thought Dr. Scott should get the "spotlight".

full audio

Hi Jon,

If you have the full audio of this, would you be able to post it here too? Unfortunately I missed the show. Cheers

Thanks for posting.

I've been waiting for this.

Me too! I want to hear Ron

Me too! I want to hear Ron Wieck make an ass of himself again.

Here's a comment...

I left from the original thread...

Ron is lying. Norman Mineta was coerced into agreeing it was a "shoot down" order by Lee Hamilton. He was insistent that he didn't find out until later it was a "shoot down" order. However, at the time the order was being discussed, he didn't know what the order was.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

As far as someone from the Commission stating that Norman Mineta's testimony was discredited... was this person a friend of Zelly's perhaps? How about a friend of someone within the Administration? Where are these statements from this person? Am I supposed to take Ron Wieck's word for it?

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?


Norman Mineta was coerced into agreeing it was a "shoot down" order by Lee Hamilton. He was insistent that he didn't find out until later it was a "shoot down" order. However, at the time the order was being discussed, he didn't know what the order was.

Jon, this is pure speculation.

Mineta's timeline and his claim that the shootdown (standdown) order was given for AA77 is not confirmed by anyone else and disproven by his own contradictional statements which I have summarized here:


Ron Wieck is right in saying that Mineta misses the time the order was given by about 40 minutes, but he fails to explain wich plane Cheney's order referred to, avoiding very interesting questions. That plane was Flight 93, despite the fact that Flight 93 had crashed already minutes before..

A closer examination of the issue and how it relates to the mysterious Camp David crash message you can find here:


Mineta's lie leads directly to the realization that 9/11 was an Operation Northwoods-like maneuver.
AA 77 didn't hit the Pentagon.

Mr. Box...

Mr. Mineta DID NOT know what the order was at the time it was being discussed. There is NOTHING speculative about that statement.

"there was an order to shoot that plane down.[...] I don't know that specifically [...] But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation [...] But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down. [...] Subsequently I found that out.

Peter Dale Scott just sent me this...

"Ron Wieck: He (Christopher Kojm) pointed out that it had been completely discredited by the logs and by other witnesses."

There it is. It's hard to prove he's wrong about the logs, because we don't have them and are not likely to get them until Congress passes a law (I've written about this). But the logs don't corroborate the 10:10 version of the story -- only Libby's (!) and Lynne Cheney's (!!) notes do that, according to the 9/11 Report, pp. 41, 464, 465. Apparently the logs say Cheney "entered" the PEOC at about 9:58. But of course I believe that a complete log would show that Cheney first entered much earlier, and then left.

If Kojm used anything like the words "completely discredited," that only tells us more about Kojm.

As Peter Dale Scott said during his debate, there is more reason to believe Mineta's testimony than anyone else's in regards to the timeline. For you to say that Ron Wieck is right, on a HIGHLY debatable topic is not accurate in the least.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

The Mineta Problem

The problem, as I have repeatedlly pointed out, is that Mineta contradicts himself.

He says repeatedly that he was in the PEOC before the Pentagon impact. That was before 9:40, agreed?

And he says repeatedly that he arrived at the White House when it was evacuated in full mode, with people running out, and that the opposited Executive Office Building was evacuated, too. This was after 9:40, and it is certainly still verifiable by asking people who were working in one of those buildings at that moment.

We don't need to ask the young man to prove or disprove Mineta. We can ask these people.

Here is a summary of Mineta's contradictional statements:


Speak for yourself...

I think talking to a "young man" that was involved in confirming an order on 9/11 with Dick Cheney is a STAR WITNESS that should be identified and brought forward to testify. Weren't there reports that evacuations may have started earlier than you cite?

(9:22 a.m.) September 11, 2001: White House Begins Slowly Evacuating
In a 9:52 a.m. report, CNN White House correspondent John King will state that, “about 30 minutes ago,” the White House had begun slowly evacuating. This evacuation proceeds in an orderly fashion. But later on, around 9:45 a.m., those evacuating will be ordered to run (see (9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [CNN, 9/11/2001]

If that is true, then that would coincide with Mineta's timeline. As for Mineta not knowing what the order was at the time he heard that discussion, if you watch his testimony, you will see that he says it didn't occur to him that the order they were speaking about may have been a shoot down order until Flight 93 was reported down.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Slow evacuation

This evacuation starting at 9:22 was, as you write it, SLOW. No people panicky running out. The "run" began only at about 9:40 as a reaction to a reported threat from a plane, and the running people are reported in the very same CNN report right at this time (NOT for 9:22). There is no reason to assume that people run out of the WH and the ExecOffice Building twice, as your version suggests it.

Where does...

Norman Mineta cite "panicky" people "running out"? During his testimony, he said:

When I got to the White House, it was being evacuated. I met briefly with Richard Clark, a National Security Council staff member, who had no new information. Then the Secret Service escorted me down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, otherwise known as the PEOC. I established contact on two lines, one with my chief of staff at the Department of Transportation, and the second with Monty Belger, the acting deputy administrator of the FAA, and Jane Garvey, both of whom were in the FAA operations center.

In this report, he confirms people were "running out"...

I grabbed some manuals and some papers, went down to the car, and we went over to the White House. As we went in West Executive Drive, people pouring out of the Executive Office building, people running out of the White House, and I said to my driver and security guy, "Is there something wrong with this picture? We are driving in, and everybody else is running away." So I went into the White House and someone said, "You have to be briefed by Dick Clark in the Situation Room." So I went in there, he talked to me for four or five minutes, and he said, "You have got to go to the PEOC." I said, "What's the PEOC?" He said, "That's the Presidential Emergency Operations Center." I said, "I don't know where that is or what it is." There was a Secret Service agent standing there, says, "I'll take you." Well, it's that bunker that's way under the White House.

However, how do we know that people weren't running during the "slow" evacuation once they left the White House in an "orderly fashion?"

Mr. Box... neither of us can state authoritatively what happened at the WH that morning. My original point, however, remains true. At the time the "young man" scenario took place, Norman Mineta was not aware what the order was that Cheney and the "young man" were talking about. True, in front of Hamilton, Mineta assumed the order they were talking about was a "shoot down" order, but at the time it was taking place, he had no idea what the order was.

Ron Wieck said, "If Mineta thought he was talking about a Stand Down order, then he would be claiming that Cheney confessed, in front of everybody, in front of the world, that he was complicit in some kind of monstrous crime. Now obviously no news organization anywhere in the world broke this sensational story, so nobody really thought that Cheney was ordering a stand down."

As I've repeatedly said, Mineta DIDN'T KNOW what the order was at the time it was taking place.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?"

The Executive Office Building

Mineta not only describes people running out of the WH - just as reported by CNN and others for 9:40 -, but also how people run out of the Executive Office Building, too - just as reported by CNN and others for 9:40.

In a MSNBC interview - here -


he even describes that people were running towards Lafayette Park. This is, no surprise for the reader, reported by CNN and others for the same time, 9:40.

Mineta's description fits the reports of the hasty 9:40 evacuation perfectly. No news source has reported something similar - "people pouring out of the Executive Office Building" - for 9:20. And I'm sure that the question WHEN people actually run out of this building - is easy to verify, even now. One witness f.i. is Linda Brookmark, who was there when the "white plane" flew over the restricted area.

Why to speculate that Mineta knew or didn't knew the meaning of the order if his whereabouts can be simply determined by asking - for instance - the employees in the Executive Office Building who've been there on 9/11? Looks more reasonable to me, and sooner or later, I'm sure it will be done. If I was not living 4000 miles away, I probably would do it by myself.


Orders weren't issued until 10:18 so if Norman Mineta arrived at 9:20 OR 9:40, and an order was being discussed, it wasn't a shoot-down order. So please Mr. Box, tell me the name of the "young man" so I can ask him what the order was because it sure as hell wasn't a "shoot-down" order. Flight 93 did not come within 50, 30, or 10 miles of Washington D.C. so that leads one to believe the plane they were talking about is Flight 77 which coincides more with the timeframe of 9:20 than 9:40.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Don't you think...

...it's easier to ask people who were working in the Executive Office Building on 9/11 instead of making - for you and me - hopeless efforts to identify the young man and ask him?

Think practical.

It is...

A hopeless effort to try and identify the name of the "young man" because we don't have access to a list of individuals that were in the PEOC that morning. However, that doesn't take away from how important it is TO identify him, and bring him forward for questioning. Why would I want to talk to people that weren't involved in issuing that order, or confirming that order?

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?


Why would I want to talk to people that weren't involved in issuing that order, or confirming that order?

Because these people are able to show that Mineta contradicts himself and therefore is no reliable source for the occurrences in the PEOC.

So you're saying...

That we should completely disregard Norman Mineta's testimony?

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

If that's what you're saying...

And it sounds like you are, I couldn't disagree more. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Check this out pls.

Tony Blair 'moments from death' after Israeli fighter jets threatened to blow his plane out of the sky


Israel Mistakes Tony Blair's Plane For Hostile Aircraft


Also have a look at the Comments in HuffingtonPost and the Daily Mail.

"Angel is Next" Scenario?
Are "Mistakes" like this even possible?
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Congressional Oversight?

Is Ron serious? Who in this White House has been held accountable in any way for the warrantless wiretapping? Who in this White House has been held accountable for anything (other than those that resigned because of criminality).


Christopher Kojm - President
Chris Kojm is the president of the 9/11 Public Discourse Project and former deputy director of the 9/11 Commission. Prior to that, he served from 1998 until February 2003 as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Intelligence Policy and Coordination in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research. He served previously in the Congress on the staff of the House International Relations Committee, under Ranking Member Lee Hamilton as Deputy Director of the Democratic staff (1997-98), as Coordinator for Regional Issues (1993-1997) and under Chairman Hamilton on the Europe and Middle East subcommittee staff (1984-92). From 1979-1984, he was a writer and editor with the Foreign Policy Association in New York City. He has a Masters in Public Affairs from the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton University (1979) and an A.B. from Harvard College (1977).


He also served on the associate staff of the Joint Congressional Investigation of the Iran-Contra affair (1987).

From Phil Shenon's "The Commission", Pages 84-86:

"All reporters' calls had to be forwarded to Zelikow or Chris Kojm, a longtime congressional aide to Lee Hamilton who had been named the commission's deputy executive director. The mild-mannered, professorial Kojm was never seen by the staff as any sort of Democratic counter-balance to Zelikow. He often seemed cowed by Zelikow, in fact. [...] Kean and Hamilton stayed in close touch by telephone with the commission, and Hamilton could depend on Kojm to keep him informed about problems as they arose on the staff."

Guess what Ron, not only am I not inclined to believe that you even talked to him (unless you can provide media of the discussion), but I'm also not inclined to believe anything Christopher Kojm has to say either.

Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?

Ron Wieck

I don't know why anybody would bother having Ron Wieck on as a debunker. He doesn't know enough about anything to debunk anything. His major argument seems to be that the official version of 9-11 must be true because the alternative would be an accusation that the FBI was complicity along with other intelligence agencies in a monsterous crime - as if corruption was unknown in the world of law enforcement.

Wieck also didn't seem to understand the difference between a list printed in a newspaper and the actual passenger manifest. If a person doesn't know what a manifest is - and that it is required by law, then they are not knowledgable enough to be considered a credible spokesperson for any point of view.

If the FBI were such crack investigators (and I do believe they are), they should have the actual boarding passes bagged and tagged; they should have fingerprint reports on the boarding passes; they should have the manifest bagged and tagged; they should have video tapes of the special security search that Wieck says they underwent because of random selection by the computer (retroactive reports from a computer system are not reliable because it's easy to change data in the computer). They should have witness statements from people at the airports. And they should have all of this information as part of their case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mohammed Atta and crew are guilty.

People can be tried in absentia and because the events of 9-11 were so world changing, the accused of 9-11 should be tried that way. If the FBI has a case, let them present it to the world. And until that happens they do have to be considered as complicit in the coverup of crime and accessories to the murder of 3,000 people as do all public officials in positions who have sat on their thumbs or blocked a serious investigation.

It's as simple as that.