Video: Former U.S. Senator Mike Gravel Endorses NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative on Democracy Now - June 17, 2008

(This video is now currently linked on the front page of Infowars, which will help kick it to a broader viewership. If you have a website that you can mirror this YouTube video at, please do. In this video, Gravel makes some great observations about the Pentagon Papers, government secrecy, the umbrella of whistleblower protection that Congressmen have, [but never use], and about running as a Libertarian. Much more than just a 9/11 statement. Help be the new media. -rep.)

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WeAreChange and TruthMove

WeAreChange and TruthMove need to go and volunteer to help get this done, there’s still time! I don’t understand how you guys could leave such an important and critical opportunity for 9/11 Truth up to the most ineffective people in NY.

How Can Anybody Not Support This Effort?


Current Commisioners:
Mike Gravel
Dr. William Pepper
Lorie Van Auken
ED Asner
Captain Edger Mitchell
Ralph Shoenman
Former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee
Bishop Thomas Gumblton

Spokes People:

Bill Doyle - 9/11 Family Steering Comittee
Donna Marsh O'Conner (9/11 Family)
Bob McCillvaine (9/11 Family)



Fellowship Of Reconciliation - site
NY State Green Party - site
World Can't Wait - site
Code Pink NYC - site
Jersey City Peace Movement - site
WESPAC - site
Architects for 9/11 Truth - site

Family Members:

Donna Marsh O'Connor
Bob McIlvaine
Bill Doyle
Manny Badillo
Allen Rosenzweig

First Responders

David Miller, National Guard
Mike McCormack, hospital technician and civil air patrol pilot
Kevin McPadden, former Air Force medic


William Christison, retired National Intelligence Officer and Director of the Office of Political and Regional Affairs of the CIA
Peter Philips, Professor Sociology Sonoma State University, Director
Project Censored
Karen Kwiatkowski, retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel
Catherine Austin Fitts, former Assistant Secretary of Housing under President George H.W. Bush
David Ray Griffin, Professor Emeritis, Claremont School of Theology
Walter Wink, Theologian, Professor Emeritus of Biblical Interpretation at Auburn Theological Seminary in New York City
Father Lawrence Lucas, Roman Catholic priest, Deputy Director City of NY Correction Department
Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan, editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service
Tiokasin Ghosthorse, radio show host of First Voices on WBAI
Kevin Ryan, chemist, formerly of UL Laboratories
Daniel Sanjata, Actor (from Rescue Me)
William Rodriguez, Survivor

Radical Pragmatist

Anybody else see a problem with this?

"I have to question the sincerity and/or the dedication of any self-proclaimed "Truther" who doesn't support the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative."

"How Can Anybody Not Support This Effort?"

International Truth Movement

Too right

Reads like manipulative rubbish.


This is just a giggle these days...

Putting Les aside for a second.

"I don’t understand how you guys could leave such an important and critical opportunity for 9/11 Truth up to the most ineffective people in NY."

I've said this above, but they have to get about 40,000 signatures. Then they may be asked to collect another 20,000 in two months. Even with the signatures the city is still able to keep the initiative off the ballot. If that doesn't happen, those running the initiative would have to secure some significant portion of the budget in private donations before the commission can begin its work. The five year budget is $50 million dollars, and the commissioners make $100,000 a year.

Not gunna happen.

I think a ballot initiative could be an important opportunity for the movement. But that doesn't mean that I support this one. There is a wide difference between a good idea and well executed good idea.

I would appreciate it if people didn't reduce the concerns expressed by many in the links above to a simple frustration with Les. My primary concerns are all contained in the initiative itself. As it is conceived, I consider it unlikely to succeed. And so I don't want to lend my time to the effort.

That's my opinion. Are we going to string me up for being disobedient? By the way, I don't consider it at all likely that the participation of WAC and TM would greatly increase the likelihood of collecting the needed signatures on time, or acquiring the needed donations.

I hope that we will see a future ballot initiative that is stronger.

International Truth Movement

That's pessimistic and

Edit: I still don’t understand where you’re coming from and think it’s foolish to pass this thing up and in fact bash it. If you don’t like Jamison getting his hands all over it why don’t you get involved and help steer it in a better direction?

Now linked at Infowars.

This video is now currently linked on the front page of Infowars, which will help kick it to a broader viewership. If you have a website that you can mirror this YouTube video at, please do. In this video, Gravel makes some great observations about the Pentagon Papers, government secrecy, the umbrella of whistleblower protection that Congressmen have, [but never use], and about running as a Libertarian. Much more than just a 9/11 statement.

Help be the new media.

Links to Alex Jones - Gravel & Kucinich

"Help be the new media."

This is an excellent video.

"Help be the new media."

I agree with Rep. Want to bypass the MSM? You gotta join the effot by speaking out with your voice for 9/11 truth.

Sounds like a good time to start up a 9/11 blog if you don't have one.
Arabesque: 911 Truth

CRAIGSLIST is something ANYONE CAN DO NOW. ! pic page !

CRAIGSLIST is a great resource. It is something that anyone can do. Any individual can start immediately. [A notation: On Craigslist, you can not duplicate the exact same or similar post. So, be prepared to alter the post slightly.]

CRAIGSLIST has PICS !!! Check this out!! or
If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.


I just have so much respect for Mike. I would like to see him involved with a future true 9/11 investigation.

That last statement had impact !~!

Well spoken! He speaks for the people. That last statement was great: "The sooner you put leaders in jail..."
If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.


HR 1258: The Kucinich Privilege Resolution
This resolution is a motion to refer the issue of impeachment of President Bush to the Judiciary Committee.
PASSED on June 11, 2008!
Congratulations to those of you who live in Congressional Districts 4, 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 22, 23, 25, 28, 29 and 30…your representatives voted FOR the motion. Please call them and thank them for their courage and their vote, especially those who voted in opposition to their own party.
To those in Congressional Districts 19, 27 and 32…your representative DID NOT VOTE. Please call them to voice your concern over their absence in such an important vote and remind them that there are people in their constituency who believe that the president should be investigated.
To those in Congressional Districts 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 21, 24, 26 and 31…your representatives voted AGAINST the motion. Please contact them to let them know that there are people in their constituency who believe that the president should be investigated, regardless of party affiliation, and that the only way for Republicans to regain an upright reputation is to act in an upright manner.

If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

Change that Works for You: Flint, MI


Its time to Educate this man on the Realities and the REAL ISSUES.

There's a good chance he is going to be the next President... at least for a while.......

Michelle Obama has been given leaflets on WTC7 information.

Its time to put some Professional Questions and get them to start addressing this issues - Karen Johnson, 400++ Architects & Engineers -

The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

Entire Gravel segment here...

I thought Amy did a good job introducing the ballot initiative to viewers...

part 1:

part 2:

Amy Gatekeeperman

Good job Gatekeeperman

Have WeAreChange or Alex

Have WeAreChange or Alex Jones supported the Ballot Initiative yet? 50,000 votes needed and they only have 10,000 so far with 30 days or so left? Where is AJ and WeAreChange on this?


Truthmove, and, the three 9/11 Truth groups in NYC, do not get along. There is too much of a "history" between the three groups. As a result of this, only one of the groups is doing anything to get the signatures needed for the ballot initiative. AJ doesn't support anything unless it is beneficial to him.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Alex always says that....

...if a caller disagrees with him they go to the "front of the line"...well, why doesn't someone ask him why he hasn't been vocal in his support for what is IMO & others, the most important activist tactic currently being pursued in the quest for 9/11 Truth & Justice.

(Yeah, I know AJ is on vacation this week, with Jason Bermas guesting, but the same rules undoubtedly apply...)

I have to question the sincerity and/or the dedication of any self-proclaimed "Truther" who doesn't support the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative.

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars


"I have to question the sincerity and/or the dedication of any self-proclaimed "Truther" who doesn't support the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative."

Wow!! What a really slippery slope you are on. You are stereotyping people. Anyone who does X is therefore Y. You don't appear to have had the thought that many long time activists might disagree with you.

I don't question your sincerity. I'm just not convinced that you have read the initiative and understood the implications of its contents.

International Truth Movement

Please explain to me... specifically as possible (within reason), what is in the petition that bothers you.

If I am unaware of something in it that would hurt the movement, I stand ready to apologize...but nothing leaped out at me when I read it...


9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars

I don't live in NY, but I

I don't live in NY, but I just read the petition (if that's what you're talking about), and I don't understand what your problem is. Can you please elaborate on what exactly you disagree with?

Please everyone, just read the initiative.

TruthMove does not support the ballot initiative based on the merits of the initiative itself. We are concerned with the contents of the initiative and we are concerned with the low likelihood of success based on those contents.

On a secondary level, we are concerned with the participation of Les Jamieson based on our awareness of his past and present behavior. But this concern is not, as you suggest, the primary reason why we have not participated.

I hope that people have taken the time to read the document.

International Truth Movement

Is there...

Another NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative currently underway? Are you in the process of developing one that addresses your concerns? If not, then in my opinion, you should support the one that already exists. Get the signatures that are needed, and work out the details of the Commission later. The bottom line is, a new investigation for 9/11 is being put in the hands of the people through the ballot initiative. That is the one chance we have for a new investigation. If we leave it up to the "powers that be", it will never happen.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Heard that one before and so have you.


That's cheer leading based on a fallacious argument. I know you can do better. My concerns are not irrelevant simply because I'm not trying to accomplish the same goal. Do we want a new investigation? Yes. Does that mean that every strategy for achieving that goal is equally sound? No. Is this our "one chance" to secure a new investigation? Considering the very small likelihood that the initiative will pasee, I hope not.

I didn't say your concerns were...

"Irrelavant." I am sick to death of people putting words in my mouth. I simply asked if you had a better ballot initiative in the works, and if not, then in my opinion, you should support this one. If it fails, it fails, but at least we tried. Or, we can continue debating about what hit the Pentagon, and how those towers came down for eternity and never accomplish anything.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?


...just gathering signatures in the 10s of Thousands shows how many people are still very concerned about the truth of the events of 9/11 and the appalling subsequent cover-up...

And that, IMHO, is important all by itself.

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars


>>If not, then in my opinion, you should support the one that already exists.

I disagree. That's like saying if Obama doesn't have a health care plan currently ready, then support Bush's, whatever it is, because it's ready now. You can do better than that . ..

Um, no...

It's like saying, "this is the ONLY ballot initiative currently underway... if you don't have a better one, than maybe you should consider supporting it because the idea of a ballot initiative is a GOOD one." We've heard from the naysayers of the ballot initiative for months, and yet, we haven't seen the naysayers try to establish their own, or for that matter, do ANYTHING that may get us a new investigation. I don't like Les, and his inability to make the right decisions, but I do support the idea of giving the people the choice as to whether or not we get a new investigation into 9/11. If I lived in NY, you can rest assured that I would do everything in my power to get as many signatures as I could. After the signatues were obtained, then I would work with the families to make sure the Commission created through the ballot initative would be the best one we could hope for.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

If anything will do . . .

But Jon, Alfred Webre is the *only* doing the '9/11 War Crimes Tribunal', so you must be supporting that then, aren't you? That's the one that says that nuclear weapons and space weapons will be considered for involvement on 9/11.

Preview of Interview with Alfred Webre

As far as I'm concerned...

The existing Commission as it stands is a joke with few exceptions. I don't think the Commission as we see it now, will be the Commission as it exists after we get this on the ballot, and after the voters vote for it. Why don't we get to that point before we start talking about who should be on the Commission and who shouldn't be? Or, we can sit here, and do nothing, and debate about how the towers came down, and what hit the Pentagon for the rest of our lives, completely and totally dishonoring the victims of 9/11, the first responders of 9/11, America, and the world.

Edit: I just saw Damon's post up above...

Mike Gravel
Dr. William Pepper
Lorie Van Auken
ED Asner
Captain Edger Mitchell
Ralph Shoenman
Former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee
Bishop Thomas Gumblton

Is that the current Commission? Where is Alfred Webre? What's wrong with this Commission?

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

You can't complain about

You can't complain about disinfo jokers being approached with a mandate for a ballot initiative by great people who unfortunately don't know any better, if the real 9/11 Truthers in NY don't put their hands up and make themselves available.


Jules, are there any particular problem points to the initiative that you could mention? If not here, maybe an article or something on the topic. I can respect that many initiatives of this kind can be undermined due to lack of foresight and vague wording, but at the same time I tend to regard Mike Gravel as pretty savvy. I would be surprised if he would support an initiative that could easily be turned into another whitewash.

More major concerns with the initiative

I second the concerns.

Unfortunately, this effort is being run by the person who gives a mic to Judy Wood, Jim Fetzer and Alfred Webre on every Anniversary, when it counts. That is a huge red flag.

Our primary blockade to reaching the public is that we are seen as "nuts". Giving a mic to these people only cements that viewpoint.

Judy Wood features the videos of her presentations at Les Jamiesons' events to lure people in to believing she is acceptable.

Morgan Reynolds was promoted front and center -- even after his no-planes hoaxes were already well-refuted by everyone -- by Les Jamieson.

Does anyone really believe this is just a coincidence, or ignorance?

And unfortunately, the other person running the initiative will get on the stage with those people. That's another huge red flag.

Some people can be extremely intelligent and do monumental work but don't understand the relevance of discrediting of this effort. Gravel himself created a scandal for himself by speaking at a conference of known anti-semites, Barnes Review. (see his wiki page)

So one organizer is working 24/7 to inject nonsense into our work and the other is looking the other way and assuming this doesn't matter (he is not unaware). These are the two people in charge and this concerns me.

And then let's also talk about the UFO/ESP "Commissioner" that will be on there . . .

Former Apollo Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell conducts "psychic" experiments and makes broad public claims that he knows the government is covering-up UFO visits. Mitchell was a keynote speaker at a major UFO conference in 2008 and has a DVD, among others, called ‘The Quantum Hologram and ESP' in which he "presents an elegant scientific explanation for psychic phenomenon - The Quantum Hologram."

This is hugely discrediting stuff for any investigative commission.

Do you think it's just chance that he is on there? What 9/11 work has he ever done? His willingness to believe as fact what people tell him about UFOs suggests he cannot be trusted to consider the evidence in a fact-based manner.

These are very large concerns and those voting them down are no better than the Common Dreams editors who stick their fingers in their ears and say "la la la" everytime their efforts to shut out dissent are challenged.

The concerns and dissent are real.

I was under the impression

I was under the impression that Dr William Pepper was the man who had the idea for this thing, I don't think Les Jamieson does a good job either but all the more reason for this thing to be energised and picked up by WeAreChange and others! No wonder they only have 10,000 votes so far if the only person/group doing anything about it are the people who do such a bad job that they forced others to leave and form much better organizations. If anything it's not the ballot initiative that is the problem but Jamieson being the only one willing to do anything with it, if it fails it fails because no one else but the individual who doesn't do the best job in NY was the one to run with it. WeAreChange can do this thing I'm sure, TruthMove should stop moaning and get involved too. You guys live there, you should at least try!

>>I don't think Les Jamieson

>>I don't think Les Jamieson does a good job either

It's not about a good job, it's about actively recuiting and promoting the hoax advocates, then mixing them with our best researchers.

Doing a job is about working. "Work" is not the issue -- some of those who believe that real planes never hit or that space weapons destroyed the WTC will work very hard at what they do. The question is what is the outcome of that work?

I don't get what you’re

I don't get what you’re saying, Jamison by giving a platform to clowns and by apparently sucking the energy out of NY911Truth making people leave to form their own groups, is the definition of someone who appears to be doing a very bad job in regards to effectively promoting 9/11 Truth.

The bottom line is that it's not Fetzer, Reynolds or Wood who're enthused about this thing, it's Dr William Pepper, Mike Gravel and other people who have tons of credibility. Jamison was probably approached because he's the 9/11 Truth "representative" in NY, not because the whole thing is a disinfo Op. So the real truthers who are available need to get involved and get this thing done, don't leave it up to Jamison.

Can I Get An .....Amen!!!!!

The initiative was completely written by Dr. William Pepper!!!!!!!
He and the others are quite capable and experienced with handling cointelpro, disinfo and any other attempt to discredit or derail this initiative.
We can all force this in the right direction but it must start with getting the signatures!!!!!

This initiative belongs to the American people, the citizen's of New York, the 9/11families, and the first responders....... not Les or anyone else. Those who get in the way or disrupt its success can and will be removed.

Radical Pragmatist

>>Jamison was probably

>>Jamison was probably approached

Jamieson created this. He runs the website. He coordinates the volunteers. He and Pepper together solicited people like Gravel.

The point is not who is or isn't enthused, the point is that one of the main PR people advocating disinfo is the creator and operator of this effort.

Dem on balance is talking sense!

The players are there and know what they are doing you must give them the field to play on! If enough people get involved it will become an overwhealming sucess due to good will alone.

You guys and gals can do this, and a balance will be found. Truth Move should lead the way put the past behind them, as this is bigger than any one group.

Please, this to me is an opportunity that can not be missed.

Hopefully John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

Everything she said

"But this concern is not, as

"But this concern is not, as you suggest, the primary reason why we have not participated."

But it is my primary concern. Les is a snake. If he's anywhere nearby something that might work, you can bet he's doing something to make sure it won't. And this doesn't seem to be on the organizers' radar....

I wish them luck, I really do--because they're going to bloody need it. Meanwhile, I'll continue to have an anti-Les wobbly in the hopes he'll behave just to prove me wrong out of spite.

It's the least I can do.

Right--I'll take my negative points now. Cheers all. ;-)

If your disconcerting prophecy proves out...

...I hope you receive my apology before you have the occasion to ask for it....

In the meantime, I am encouraged to see this initiative with some wind behind it's sails....

BTW, I am sort of glad there are people out there who are hyper-vigilant in their endeavors to keep the principals honest....

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars

Don't need people to be sorry...

...just watch that bloody snake. The more people give Les the hairy eyeball, the less like he can slip something by.

Do not trust that man.

Show "Jon, instead of ninnying about Alex Jones, you could spread" by Colombo

I listened to it, and sent Luke...

And Sibel a thank you. He asked a question about Alex, and I answered him. I don't see what Luke and Sibel have to do with it. Unless you're implying that I spend more time criticizing Alex than I do participating in activism. Since I'm the one in this movement that has promoted Sibel the most, I think it's safe to say that I've done "my part" regarding helping her.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Pass the smelling salts...

Was that Amy Goodman actually covering a 9/11 Truth story? I think I'm going to pass out from shock.

I still think this is a topic she wishes would just go away, so I suspect intense public pressure had a lot to do with this. If you're someone like Amy, having kept silent (or worse) for so long, you have to wonder what happens to your career when the dam breaks on the truth about 9/11. What happens when her legion of faithful followers begins to wonder why they've been led down the OCT garden path by Democracy Now all this time? Where was the courageous journalism? Where was the attempt to get at the truth in all these disastrous post-9/11 years? Can her audience ever trust her again?

All past bitterness aside, this is an exciting development. I thought Gravel spoke very powerfully and his personal history in regard to such highly relevant events give him the kind of gravitas that makes him hard to dismiss lightly. I hope like hell his appearance pulled in a boatload of new signatures from many people who previously had no idea this effort was underway. DN's audience is huge, so I'm hopeful!

I LOVED what he said about the importance of actually putting a U.S. president behind bars! Talk about a new morning in America...

Well, Amy's mantra...

...has always been, when asked about 9/11, is that she "supports a new investigation"....

Finally, here, she has done something tangible in supporting that effort...although it definitely comes under the heading of "Thank you for Small Favors", at this point....

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars

What about..

What about Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy? And Lionel? Aren't they from NYC? I'm not sure about Malloy, but aren't Randi and Lionel? Are they getting the word out?

I agree

Also with the other poster who mentioned WeAreChange and Alex Jones. I would like to see the Ron Paul sites carry this information as well. IMHO, the most important political move to help 9/11 Truth that is going on right now.

In Texas, Ron Paul groups passing Kucinich Impeachment around

I am sure that some Ron Paul members pass this ballot initiative around among themselves. (e.g. See above top comment of Kucinich which came from a Ron Paul member) There is so much traffic on Ron Paul sites & meetups, that many members send out individual emails to their friends on news of this nature.


If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

Ron Paul...We Are Change...Alex Jones...

The more work that Kucinich does, and the more opportunities that Gravel and others have to "call out" the corporate control of the USofA as it relates to 9/11, the clearer become the differences in the various people and groups associated with the 9/11 Truth Movement.

Perhaps it woud be productive time spent to drop back a fair distance in order to gain a better perspective about The Ron Paul Experiment and Ron Paul himself, the political front organization of The Ron Paul Experiment known as We Are Change Chapters, and what Alex Jones' objectives and future contributions might be.

More and more exposures about new and positive information surrounding the events of 9/11 are happening seemingly every day, and more and more, The Ron Paul Experiment is moving in the complete opposite direction. The Ron Paulers were never interested in anything to do with 9/11 anyway, they just were positioned to ride the 9/11 Truth Movement's coattails, and of course, to discredit the movement itself. Whether by design or not, it was a classic cointelpro action...

For the thousands of really good people in the various We Are Change groups around the world, perhaps you should hijack the WAC idea and retool it to something other than a front for Ron Paul, Libertarianism, and whatever Alex Jones' goals might be. It could become a really good idea if this happens.

One thing for sure, the above mentioned folks are being seen differently as time marches on...especially the Ron Paul devotees who used the 9/11 Truth organizational opportunity to hand out Ron Paul propaganda.

In defense of Alex Jones, the first half of Terrorstorm is nothing less than brilliant, and I hope that he creates another shorter video that ties in all the false flag attacks that were used to manipulate the people of this country into yet another unwanted war.

This would be the BEST tool to penetrate the barriers to 9/11 Truth set up by the high levels of the peace movements. This messaging would really resonate well with the public because the average person would come to understand that it is a PERSONAL COMPLIMENT that they need to be lied to in order to support wars that they would NEVER agree to support without such trickery foisted upon them by their own government.

Alex Jones...a request!

Hey, all the data, history and film footage are there to accomplish about it? Please step up and help us implement the first step to inform the REMAINING MILLIONS of people about the truths behnd 9/11. Lets get them into the 9/11 Truth Rabbitt Hole and trust hem to go where they want to go in repairing our democracy. You most likely would also expand your fan base.

Love, Peace and Progress with:


Robin Hordon


The Ron Paul experiment was classic COINTELPRO?

I think Robin means...

...that it was a means of wearing us out on an imposible campaign. This is one of their methods for how many millions were spent on Ron Paul that could of been spent on facts cards and DVD's?

9/11 Truth is the only way to see real change!

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

I notice support from Ron Paulers & Alex Jones supporters

There is tremendous support by Ron Paulers and Alex Jones supporters and We Are Change members (and also with many other groups). I hear from indivduals who are members of these groups. There are many, many people who support Kucinich and the NY Initiative and are active.

Read my previous comment (sent by a leader in the Ron Paul movement) calling for other Ron Paulers to chastise their individual representatives for not supporting Kucinich's move to impeach.

We are all united. It is the SUMMER OF TRUTH.

Let's not knock different groups or other indivduals.

I see lots of support from all corners.

Let's continue to hit the streets and get the word out about 9/11 TRUTH. Let's give out flyers and DVDs and post signs and banners. Let's send funds to support the initiative. Each indivdual can contribute in their own way.

Let's stay united, not straining at criticism of what others are or are not doing.
Let's act and set an example of what we are doing as indivduals.

We are headed towards the same objectives. Get the TRUTH out there.

Let's set an example by our own actions, and sweat, and financial sacrifice.
If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

If this opportunity...

... is lost in infighting, I feel appalled. That is all I can say.

It wont be, people are just venting!

I'll bet that this will force these groups to come together, the Webre's Fetzers and Wood's will be pushed aside by the pure weight of real truth seekers.

I really believe this will come aff and we will "all" be much better for it!

Regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

>>the Webre's Fetzers and

>>the Webre's Fetzers and Wood's will be pushed aside by the pure weight of real truth seekers.

I would love to see that John, so I hope you are right.

Critique is essential for the success of our movement

I agree that there are some unnecessarily divisive words being said, but I think it's a mistake to confuse and dismiss all of what is being said (i.e. critique) with "infighting". I think this only reveals how seriously some take the issue of 9/11 truth, and that's to be expected. But, I think people have to remember that this is not a face to face meeting and misunderstandings can happen with just text on a computer screen.

Is the initiative perfect? Is there room for improvement? Should changes be made? What can be done to make it successful? These are all reasonable questions that need and deserve to be asked, and they shouldn't be dismissed or be mistaken as being hostile to the cause of 9/11 truth. That is a grave mistake. If these criticisms are valid and they can be answered, then it would help the initiative be successful if it is done in a constructive way. This is smart political activism in action.

There are a lot of credible people involved with this, which makes this in my mind worthy of being supported. However, I share some of the concerns of others and I question the involvement of individuals who have shown a history of giving a consistent platform to material widely regarded as disinformation. I question why certain people have been involved at all in the first place given their history and some serious allegations against them. Some of these allegations go beyond whether the usual junk theories are being promoted at a conference (again).

I think there needs to be more open and honest communication about some of the issues that some have with the Ballot. If criticism can help make this successful, then it should not be considered taboo. Unfortunately, the world does not exist in only black and white.

Because there are many credible people involved including Dr. Pepper, who has an intimate understanding of COINTELPRO and disinformation, I feel reasonably comfortable with the leadership of the Ballot. We can't predict the future, but part of an informed and effective 9/11 movement is to offer dissent in a critical and positive way.

As for the issue of funding and collecting the signatures; perhaps this will be difficult to accomplish, but if this can be effective at advancing the cause of 9/11 truth, I see no reason not to try.

The trade off between a perfect investigation and one that gets some new facts uncovered--maybe even a shade of justice seems to me to be worth the effort than nothing at all. Concerns about the ballot should be respected, and the leadership should respond to these critiques if they have merit. Critique--not infighting is how we move forward as a truth movement.

I think we have to remember that disinformation (i.e. the 9/11 official story) is a FACT of life that we have to deal with. There will always be false explanations about 9/11--some supporting the official story and others that claim to disprove it. In my estimation, no single book, DVD, or investigation will EVER completely get the FULL truth to 9/11. To me, this is something to be AIMED for, but certainly almost impossible to achieve. This is why critique and criticism is essential to the 9/11 truth movement. By admitting mistakes and making a legitimate effort to improve research and activism, this is the approach that I believe will lead to the success of our movement.
Arabesque: 911 Truth

right here yo


posted it elsewhere too

I actually posted it somewhere else on 911blogger, quoting excerpts of it.

That thread appears to have vanished.
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog


I never deleted it. I don't even remember seeing it. It's possible that SBG may have, before he turned in his admin badge.

If an ENTIRE thread was deleted, by the user who posted it, that may explain the phenomenon.

And there's a reason why I

And there's a reason why I supported Gravel during the primary and worked on his campaign while everyone else was busy carrying on about Ron Paul being a "secret truther."

Justin A. Martell

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!

Yes, he is not a secret

Yes, he is not a secret truther as many around here were hoping to god he was. The only reason he was ascribed such thoughts is because of his connexion to Alex Jones who he made a deal with to keep coming on his radio show during his campaign. But truthers kept trying to pin their issue on to his campaign and as a result would be the one candidate who would get asked questions about 'conspiracy theories' during the Republican debates. Dr. Paul said:

"Well, I think he was asking about, you know, who ultimately is to blame and whether or not it deserves more investigation. There was one investigation. They spent a lot of money and very extensive and I think he indicated that they didn't even mention the third building that went down (WTC Building 7).

Government investigations, as a general rule, aren't very good because when the government does it, they generally protect the government. And whether it's investigating 9/11, or, you know, Ruby Ridge, or Waco, they tend more to be coverups than anything else.

The truth is I don't know exactly all that transpired. I don't know if anybody knows the absolute truth, but there's reason to be very suspect of what's happened. And I am convinced that the 9/11 Commission Report did ignore some very, very important things like the third building, as well as why did those numerous Arabs from Saudi Arabia with the name of bin Laden get to go home when none of us were allowed on airplanes. That always amazed me, as well, especially since the 15 out of 19 came from Saudi Arabia. And then they turn around and they use this as an excuse to go into Iraq. So, you know the whole thing, whether it's strictly 9/11 but it's the repercussions from 9/11 that led to the useless and needless war, that all needs looked into just for the sake of the future of our country. ..."

So it amazes me to see all of the backlash against this man around here. I never supported Ron Paul because I thought he might give us a new investigation, I supported him (and still do, his new book is amazing) because he is the leading spokesperson for freedom in this country and the champion of the Constitution.

9/18 was an inside job! So maybe 9/11 was too...

Just get the freakin' signatures already


Yeah, get with it already......:)

Sorry I can't help! One month will go very quickly to be sure...

Regards John

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

Undermining of NY 911 Initiative

I completely agree that this initiative has some of the best, very visible people with the best intentions involved with it and the idea of creating a commission like this on government money is great if some results can come out of it. This is also something that has been endorsed by a very wide range of organizations, some of which would not give us the time of day in many cases. The issue I have is that it is that something this uniting WILL be infiltrated and to think that something like this will not be undermined or at least attempted to be is very naive. Look at everything we have been dealing with over the past several years. And this initiative will be the exception? Why is it that no one within the NY 9/11 Initiative is raising the idea that you need to be critical and skeptical of people's actions and histories? To me, the big red flag is that someone who is not transparent, has subscribed to the big tent and has had other suspicious activities is at the helm of this and has been since the start. And nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care. I think Les' position within the NY 9/11 Initiative is very revealing of what the overall outlook of it has been from the beginning.

I think that the NY 9/11 Initiative was created with the intention of failing from the beginning therefore wasting so many devoted and well-meaning people's energy and giving Les Jamieson credibility at the same time. Granted, that last sentence is speculative and I know no one wants to hear it, but from my several years experience in NY 9/11 Truth, this is what seems to be happening.

Sent to me by John Albanese...

Top reasons NYC 9/11 Truth activists will NOT support the current ballot initiative.

1 – The initiative itself appears flawed in such a way as to almost guarantee its failure. The initiative itself demands that $100,000 annually be paid to each of the 9 specified commissioners.

“The Commission shall have a duty to maintain the number of Commissioners at no less than nine and to fill vacancies promptly.”

Additionally, as many as 15 may be appointed:

“…and others to be appointed by majority vote of the Commission members to bring the Commission up to as many as 15 members”

These figures necessitate a base annual budget of $900,000 to $1,500,000, while the 5 year budget itself is quoted as $50 million.

Failure to raise this amount will allow the organizers of this event to essentially hold the initiative hostage, essentially shelving it for an indefinite period of time, and preventing its execution.

“The work of the Commission will commence upon the expected realization of the full funds specified in our anticipated budget.”

2 – The participation of Edgar Mitchell as a commissioner. Edgar Mitchell is a well-known advocate of the pseudo sciences, including his many public initiatives, writings and claims associated with UFOs, extraterrestrial ‘visitations’ and his personal experience with ESP/clairvoyance.

It is my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement has already been negatively stigmatized by the mainstream media as a result of many of these advocates of pseudo-sciences and outlandish theories. The inclusion of a known UFO / clairvoyance advocate to the commission itself appears to be an intentional attempt to poison the well and associate 9/11 truth with tin-foil hat type conspiracy theorists.

3 – The participation and control of this initiative remains in the hands of a known 9/11 Truth disruptor who has explicitly and implicitly promoted the work of disruptors to this movement.


Les Jamieson organized and sponsored events featuring the following guests and/or content:

  • Judy Wood – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory.
  • Jim Fetzer – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory, as well as many other discredited and debunked theories.
  • Afred Webre – UFO advocate
  • Nico Haupt – serial slanderer of 9/11 Truth activists, and promoter of the no-planes theory. Mr. Haupt is best known for highly inflammatory videos that include content accusing prominent 9/11 Truth activists of pedophilia, the use of excrement in conjunction with 9/11 imagery, slanderous accusations and innuendo, nazi imagery – including his self-proscribed persona NicoHitler. Mr. Haupt has also led disruptions and assaults of 9/11 activists at ground zero.
  • Paula Gloria – promoter of Webfairy and Nico Haupt. Ms. Gloria was most recently invited by Les Jamieson to speak at St Marks church in NYC, despite her known reputation for posting/promoting the videos of self-described “transgression artists” that seeks to label prominent 9/11 Truth activists as members of a known Al Qaeda media cell. A recent video called for “the gassing of victim’s families.”
  • Rick Siegel’s film “9/11 Eyewitness” during a live event featuring David Ray Griffin. This content was inserted into the program without the knowledge and approval of Dr. Griffin. Mr. Siegel is better known for his website which has been responsible for virulent attacks against victim’s family members and 9/11 Truth activists, while promoting no-planes theories, mini-nukes at the WTC and a virtual whose-who of 9/11 Truth disruptors and disinformation activists.
  • Jimmy Walker, who appeared at St Marks church at a 9/11 Truth event and showed a film focusing on the sexual habits, homosexuality, bestiality and sexual perversions (in detail) of members of the Bush administration. Many of those in attendance left, appalled at the content being presented at a Les Jamieson promoted 9/11 event.
  • Webster Tarpley, who used the platform provided by Mr. Jamieson to accuse prominent 9/11 activists (e.g., Cosmos of 911TruthAction) of being terrorists and government agents. Photos of each activist were projected on a screen while Tarpley accused each of being Islamic terrorists / Chechen rebels and cointelpro activists. Mr. Jamieson – organizer of the event – present during these attacks – did nothing to halt the presentation – and has since offered no apologies to the activists slandered and defamed.
  • The distribution and sale of the highly anti-Semitic magazine “Criminal Politics.” This magazine featured Dr. David Ray Griffin on its cover, with the headline accusing Jews of being responsible for the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church.
  • Various debunked theories (pods under the plane, the hijackers are still alive, etc etc)

It seems incredible to me that such prominent activists as Jon Gold would YET AGAIN seek to give the benefit of the doubt, and the public spotlight, to Mr. Jamieson after the repeated disruptions and betrayal of our trust.

The idea that we should all rally behind an initiative that haslanguage contained therein inherently designed to financially stall a citizens’ investigation, while placing spokesperson powers and administrative powers in the hands of someone PROVEN to be untrustworthy is, frankly, irresponsible and unfathomable.

I want you all to consider the cost of failure. I want you all to consider the consequences of a high-profile 9/11 initiative, endorsed by many of our most high profile victim’s family groups and first responders, suddenly falling prey to the scrutinizing eyes of the media – with Mr. Jamieson in the spotlight representing their interests.

What are the stakes here?

Does your advocacy and support of this initiative protect it from those who seek to use it to shame and discredit us all? Just how?

Imagine this initiative passes and the media calls on the main contact – Les Jamieson – for an interview. Do you want him speaking for 9/11 Truth? Just HOW would Jon Gold PREVENT him from speaking and representing this initiative?

Jon Gold is disingenuous when he claims that TruthMove and WAC and ny911Truth are simply experiencing ‘bad blood’ over ‘history’ that he himself fails to define That is simply not intellectually honest.

Let me define that history for you. Many of us have DIRECTLY been attacked by those you now seek to indirectly empower to lead an investigation into 9/11. Many of us have been the target of virulent and vicious videos that label us AL Qaeda – including calls for violence against us – created and promoted by the VERY SAME PEOPLE LES JAMIESON INVITES TO HIS CHURCH TO REPRESENT THIS MOVEMENT.

UFO advocates? Anti-Semites? Space beams? no-planes on 9/11?

I guess some people never learn.

I cannot speak to what lies in the heart of Les Jamieson. At best he can be described as showing profoundly bad judgment – and is not to be trusted. At worst – it is intentional.

Neither is an acceptable option when considering a citizen’s investigation into 9/11.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

My response is to say...

That I don't like Les Jamieson being involved with this anymore than anyone else. I don't like all of the commissioners listed. I don't like that Bill Pepper refuses to heed our warnings with regard to Les Jamieson.

I also don't like that there is NO ONE in NYC willing to step up to the plate and make this intiative a success or take the mantle of "leadership" away from Les, and instead, is FULL of people that do NOTHING other than critique other people's efforts.

I can't do anything to control the success of this initiative, but I DO support the idea of giving the people the choice as to whether or not we get a new investigation. That, in theory, is what this initative does. That is what I support. Are we here for a new investigation, truth, accountability, and justice, or are we here to debate our theories, and critique other people's efforts from the comfort of our armchairs?

I know why I'm here. I can't speak for anyone else.

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?

Well, even if this effort...

....does somehow blow up, as a few on this thread see as an unavoidable fait accompli...I, for one, would still like to see 100,000 NYC signatures on that petition....and send that message to the perps, regardless of what happens after...

The prospect of William Pepper with Subpoena Power makes me giddy.

9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars

For the record...

Webre is a advocate for the use of Directed Energy Weapons to bring down the towers and thinks Gage and Jones are fools! I got this first hand.

Step up people and sort this shit out, the world depends on it!

Jon Gold deserves your support in words and deeds.

Regards John Bursill

9/11 24/7 UNTIL JUSTICE!!

Thanks but...

I don't need any support. The initiative does. ;)

Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?