Carrying Forward the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative
Aug. 15, 2008
Petitioners for the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative have now gathered in excess of 27,000 signatures of NY City registered voters who are in favor of the creation of a new, independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks. Anyone who has participated in a petition drive will recognize that reaching this number is a monumental accomplishment. Approaching the general public with the controversial questioning of 9/11 makes it even more so. However, since a minimum of 30,000 valid signatures is required plus an extra margin of several thousand is recommended, it appears that time has run out to meet the Sept. 4th deadline for getting this public referendum onto the Nov. 2008 ballot. Even if another 10,000 signatures were to come in by that date, the City Clerk as well as NY City Council would have needed time to review the petitions and deliberate.
Although this is a great disappointment to the dozens of dedicated people working on the Initiative, they have also accepted that it may be a blessing in disguise. The presidential race would have drawn so much media attention as to overshadow this effort to establish a new, independent, and impartial “truth commission”. Also, more time to educate the public about the faults of the official account and shortcomings of the government’s investigation will be beneficial.
Therefore, it has been decided that it’s best to continue the petition drive into the next election cycle, since the current petitions will still be usable. This will allow time to gather double the amount of required signatures, broaden the base of supporters, and build a momentum that will encourage NY City Council to align with the desire of tens of thousands of NY City voters as well as a large constituency across the country who, according to various polls, feel that the official 9/11 Commission did not conduct a valid investigation.
It’s important to note that in addition to the collection of 27,000 signatures (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/nyc911initiative/ for photos), there have been other related accomplishments. Tens of thousands of NY residents have received educational material about 9/11. Two family members, Chris Burke (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yzre208xp4) and Tom Ruggiero, who had never publicly expressed their views have come out in support of a new investigation with significant statements. We got Mike Gravel on Democracy Now. Ralph Nader, Jesse Ventura, Dan Ellsberg, Christine Ebersole, Wayne Madsen, Mark Stepnowski, and the producers of “Reflecting Pool”, have publicly voiced their support. Grammy Award-winning hip hop artists “Arrested Development” have also voiced their support (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5gARcsH-3w). NY Magazine has just run an article on the Initiative.
We thank all who have contributed financially to this historic effort. We thank people from the northeast who have come to NYC to help petition with us. We thank Mike Gravel, for his solid support. It should be noted that he has worked for 20 years on creating the opportunity for us all to participate in Initiatives (see www.nationalinitiative.us ). This effort still has a long way to go to be legal in every state. He recently told me, “This is a long process. Sometimes we have to be wise and realize we have to take a longterm view and just stay determined and focused”. He would know.
That said, many of us here continue to believe that the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative is the culmination of 7 years of research and activism because it’s designed to result in a legally recognized investigation. So we are strategizing for the next stage. We’re working on getting just 50 volunteers get a minimum of 20 signatures a week, which is 3 hours work and will total 1,000 signatures per week. We have a few other volunteers who will likely get 75-100 per week. The local Pacifica radio station, WBAI, along with the Gary Null show on WNYC will continue to be available to us to advocate for the Initiative. With additional funding, we can hire more excellent petitioners and get 1,000 per day. We hope this will be the case, since the presidential campaigns raise millions, yet will never result in an authentic 9/11 investigation.
We still have the opportunity to show there’s a groundswell of Americans who represent a mandate for truth and accountability for 9/11. There are people of conscience throughout the public, within government and military circles, as well as around the world who are waiting for us to lead the way. With the help of thousands of you helping in any way you’re able, we can prevail in showing the glaring inconsistencies of the official account and thereby, the necessity for an authentic, comprehensive 9/11 investigation.
Les Jamieson
Coordinator
NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative
www.nyc911initiative.org
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Use Obama's secret weapon: follow this link !
It is amazing, what has been done, with only volunteer power and kind gifts! Still, the carrying forward can be interpreded as postponing until 2009, and that will not do !
Here is a suggestion (I'm from Westchester county, but I'm far away from New-York, and counting on friends back home to chip in on this!) : http://www.911blogger.com/node/17158#comment-194690
Love,
Dr Beeth
How sure are we
there IS going to be a "next election cycle"?
Were volunteers warned of this before hand if they did not meet the targets it will be "held" over?
Are those signatures insured? From "fire", accidents? Theft? (rhethorical question)
This "election cycle" thing just makes me glad that we don't put our eggs in one basket.
I am begining to understand WACs silence on this.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
WAC
Since you are all about the Constitution, my recollection is that the cycle by which we hold elections is a bedrock of Constitutional provisions - local, state, federal and otherwise. Maybe you understand WAC's "silence" on this, but I never will. Their silence and resistance to this initiative may ultimately have been its demise.
What a shame.
Thank You for your enlightenment on the
Bedrock of Constitutional Provisions. Pls tell that to those people who count the votes especially at Diebold.
For those here who are not aware - there are past issues with Les Jamieson and WAC. Let's be cautious and use our heads PLEASE. Somethings are just plain obvious.
Next election cycle? Give me a break.
http://www.wearechange.org/ny911truth/index.html
Declaration of NY911Truth
Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007
To all:
I feel extremely reluctant to discuss the current situation with NY 9/11 Truth, but it needs to be addressed if we are going to move forward in this movement. This situation has been extremely divisive, and I hope we can all come to a resolution in a civil and honest manner. It should be known that I've tried to deal with this in an private setting, hoping to shield the rest of the movement from this unnecessary drama. However, Les Jamieson has put me in a position where that is no longer possible. It should be also noted that Les Jamieson that over the past few months, the following has occurred:
1. Les Jamieson with out any reason took me (Luke Rudkowski) off the main NY911Truth list serve, preventing me from emailing the 1,093 members of NY911Truth with updates and announcements related to upcoming events. Les Jamison also publicly stated that I, Luke Rudkowski, have started my own organization, which he sees as a separate entity from NY911Truth. This is false. I started the CHANGE organization in the hopes that it would represent the younger members of NY 9/11 Truth and offer them an outlet they otherwise may not have. Les Jamieson owns 100% of the NY 9/11 Truth web site and the e mail list. In fact all donations to NY911Truth go through Les Jamison’s private bank account. It should be noted Les Jamieson was never voted into any positions of power. It should be noted I recently planned a big event to support show support for Rosie O'Donnell. But I wasn't able to get the word out effectively, because I found myself locked out of the e-mail account. This only hurts the movement.
2. Les Jamieson has confiscated all funds related to NY911Truth. Les Jamison routed all donations totaling over $5,800 to his private bank account, confiscated DVD duplicators, estimated at about $1,000 and the film projector ,estimated $1,000 which was bought with donations.
3. Les Jamieson has 100% control of donations that come to us in NY911truth. In the past month he has refused to support activists with flyers and DVD’s for the past month (Donations always paid for flyers and DVD’s) Les’s actions left NY911Truth activists at Ground Zero for the past month and last 7 street actions without any supplies. The Tireless activists of NY911Truth have been taking money out their own pockets for materials to distribute. It should be noted Les has not been present at these street actions.
4. Les Jamieson has made slanderous statements regarding the integrity and allegiance of our hardest working activists and spread rumors that were without merit. His false and slanderous accusations have given this movement a black eye. I will not allow Les Jamison to become judge, jury and executioner in the case against me and other devoted members.
5. Les Jamieson has refused and ignored any efforts by myself and other members of NY911Truth to deal with this situation. I have left Les about 80 voice messages asking him to resolve this problem. I called for open and democratic NY911Truth meetings. Les chose to ignore them. He has ignored me and any efforts to meet with me. Sander Hicks proposed a conversation with himself as moderator. I immediately approved while Les ignored Sanders plea. It should be noted that Sander Hicks and Kyle Hence have proposed that Les step down.
6. What Les has done is held private meetings with his personal friends. In these private meetings he has handpicked his friends to establish a so-called steering committee . These people do not represent the organization. It should be noted that while an average of 15 people attend the open meetings, only 4 people attend these private sessions including Les.
7. NY911Truth recently gave Les Jamieson 1 week to respond to a letter signed by 42 NY911truth activists calling for an open democratic resolution to this conflict. The majority of active NY911Truth members do not support Les Jamieson, Yet Les has refused to acknowledge the majority of NY911Truth members.
8. And I won't even get into how Les screwed Tom Foti, one of our most active and dedicated members, out of access to NY911 funds.
I feel that actions speak louder than words. I will not stoop to calling Les Jamieson an infiltrator. But I will bring the proper attention to his actions.
This needs to be resolved in a way where everyone in the group has a voice. This isn't a dictatorship. It's an activist organization that will only prosper through teamwork. Personally, I have nothing to hide and I am not afraid of airing this situation out in the proper forum.
Street Actions
We will continue our street actions every Saturday at ground zero from 1pm to 4pm no matter what, even if we go broke doing it.
Every 11th we are dedicating a street action to one of our most beloved members Dan Wallace , as well as all the lives lost on 9/11/01. We will stand up every 11th of each month until the truth of 9/11 comes out. R.I.P Dan Wallace
Support
For now, as NY911Truth until the financial issues are resolved, if you want to support the actions at ground zero please donate to the youth group of NY911Truth.at www.wearechange.org
DO NOT donate on the NY911Truth.org webpage since all donations go to Les’s private bank account. Any money spent by the NY911truth activists at www.wearechange.org will be accounted for with statements. Les was recently on WBAI radio show and on the Geraldo Rivera TV Show proclaiming himself the leader of the 9/11 truth movement and a tireless activist. His actions of late do not represent that. Rather, they have held the movement back from reaching it's full potential.
Consider this a public plea to all leaders and activists in the truth movement who identify Les Jamison as the leader of NY911Truth. He does not have the support of the majority of NY911Truth and thus, no longer represents NY911Truth. NY911Truth does not have an overlord, but a group of people who work together to make things happen.
If anyone is a friend of Les Jamison, can you please plead with him to do the right thing.
Les Jamison your actions of late have inevitably fractured the group and all that we have worked to achieve. Whether you are breaking this group up intentionally or not, all that we ask if for you to do the right thing.
________________________________________________________________________
Peace and Respect,
Luke - NY911Truth
www.myspace.com/peoplesv
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Some obvious questions and a comment
Q1: Amongst other serious allegations here, #2 is accusing Les Jamison of theft. Since this is dated March 22, 2007, well over a year ago, why is the first time I'm reading about such serious allegations NOW? Has this been posted about, earlier, on 911blogger.com, and I simply missed it? If these allegations are true, shouldn't criminal charges have been filed? There was criticism of Jamison that I saw earlier, and I asked for specifics. About the worst thing that was posted (that I recall) was having invited questionable speakers to various 911 events. I want to know if allegations of criminal activity, such as theft, have been posted at 911 blogger, earlier.
Q2: What do other prominent people who have been directly involved in the 911 ballot initiative have to say about these allegations? E.g., the Jersey Girls and William Pepper? Were they also ignorant of these allegations? Did they look into them, and find that they had no merit? If they looked into them and find that they had merit, why were no warnings issued or why was not the ballot initiative restarted, without Les Jamison's involvement?
===============================================================
Comment: The basic idea of a ballot initiative is, of course, excellent. If it's determined by principals involved that I trust (such as the Jersey Girls and William Pepper) that even some of the more serious allegations are true, then they should obtain custody of whatever ballots have been signed. If they cannot do so, well, I suppose we have to start from scratch. In such a case, I hope the details of how the initial effort was sabotaged will be spread far and wide, so that people can ask the question "cui bono?", and at least infer a reasonable answer.
I suppose it might not be that simple. If the allegations are true, and criminal charges are filed against Jamison, would that perhaps taint the ballots that have already been obtained? I'm not a lawyer, but we need to hear the input of lawyers on this point.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
All good questions.
I just found out about this myself after digging deeper and hence decided to post it.
Q2: What do other prominent people who have been directly involved in the 911 ballot initiative have to say about these allegations?
Yes. This is an important point. We cannot be silent. We have to get to the bottom of this as it affects the Movement as a whole.
Sad but true that there are serious questionable activities going on in the "leadership" in the movement. The sooner we face up to it and deal with it, the sooner we will start making real progress.
I just don't buy the "insufficient signatures" - "election cycle" ploy.
Something doesn't feel right.
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Now, think about this for a second
I commented on this in a thread, but there weren't any responses.
Now, think about this for a second. This initiative involved millions of dollars in donations. I don't even know if the allegations of WAC are true, but that's not the point. Was there an investigation by the Ballot initiative to figure out if they were true? I would hope so--considering the fact that this man would be involved in an effort to collect millions of dollars in donations for the commission.
It turns out that Ballot commissioner Edgar Mitchell (who claims that we are visited by aliens) is a board member of a group run by Alfred Webre. If you don't know who Webre is, (he's a huge Judy Wood fan and UFO promoter), I have the details here: http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2008/08/nyc-911-ballot-commissioner-edg.... If someone has a history of promoting people like Jim Fetzer and Alfred Webre (on a 9/11 anniversary no less), would you entrust him to be running anything about a possible 9/11 investigation into the 9/11 attacks?
It doesn't matter if this is done deliberately or not--if you are promoting these people, you are discrediting the 9/11 truth movement. At the very least, it's bad judgment. Now put this together with the WAC allegations and I don't understand how Jamieson could have been involved in the first place.
If someone shows a history of bad judgment, do you put them in a position of leadership? Is it wrong to demand accountability from people in the 9/11 truth movement for past mistakes and divisive actions? The families deserve a new 9/11 investigation that is not compromised by poor leadership. As a coordinator of volunteers for collecting signatures, it is clear where at least some blame should be placed. I thank the hard working people who collected signatures, but I have to wonder: why was this not a blazing success story? There has to be more people who want a new investigation in NYC. I don't know exactly what happened here, but I hope that we can learn from past mistakes so that they are not repeated.
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A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog
"....This initiative
"....This initiative involved millions of dollars in donations..."
If so, we need AN AUDIT.
"... I thank the hard working people who collected signatures, but I have to wonder: why was this not a blazing success story?There has to be more people who want a new investigation in NYC......"
Yes. My thoughts exactly. It doesn't add up.
Nico Haupt, Paula Gloria, Issues with WAC. Signature "shortfall", Premature conclusion... "next election cycle delay...."
Hmmmm. Am I wrong to suspect some form of gatekeeping operation going on?
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
This was NOT posted at 911blogger, earler
For those who don't know, you can search a specific web site using Google, via adding "site:URL" to your search string. Thus, I searched 911blogger with the following strings:
site:www.911blogger.com "Les Jamieson has confiscated"
site:www.911blogger.com "Les Jamieson owns 100% of the NY 9/11 Truth web"
site:www.911blogger.com "Les ignored Sanders plea"
There were no hits, at all. (Apparently, it's too soon for the constitutional911's post to have been found by Google's web crawlers). If these allegations are true, I think it's unfortunate that they weren't posted at 911blogger, earlier, when there would probably have been more benefit. Is there anything like a good reason for this delay, or is it just something that fell through the cracks?
I'm also wondering what became of efforts to contact Pepper earlier with an open letter, as discussed by John Albanese here: http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2918&postdays=0&postorder=a... . Did this get to Pepper? What was his response?
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
I did post the info here
I assure you I did post this information here. It is possible that the thread was deleted on 911blogger. I also posted this information on the truthaction forum:
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject:
"Right now, a significant amount of members of Les's group, NY 911 truth are complaining about how he is blocking access to donations in his private bank account. Seeing how this is the case, there must obviously be serious questions about who is collecting the money for the 9/11 ballot. We are talking about essentially giving money to someone who is right now at this very moment allegedly blocking access to funds used for activism purposes. This is a huge red flag that can't be dismissed."
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17218#17218
There are two issues here: first whether this is true or not and second whether the people associated with the Ballot even investigated these claims. Why are so many people complaining about him blocking access to funds?
I tried to find my old post and I can't. It appears the thread was deleted.
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A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog
Wrong.
It was not deleted, it's right here;
http://911blogger.com/node/16191#comment-190084
No comments critical of the ballot initiative have been deleted, to my knowledge. Voted under, yes, deleted, no.
(third page of comments)
I'm specifically asking about constituional911's post
Constitutional911's post, at http://www.911blogger.com/node/17161#comment-194720 , has allegations of theft and other financial improprieties. I remember previously reading complaints about Jamieson's choices of presenters, at least one of which (Rick Siegel) was outrageously insulting to Dr. Jones. I did not consider that sufficient grounds for not supporting the ballot initiative.
Had I read of allegations of theft and other financial improprieties, I would probably have at least tried to get some sort of sanity check from Pepper or the Jersey girls, before posting Jamieson's email to me regarding my question about a budget, not to mention contributing money, myself.
So, I'll ask again, but in different words: was anything with significant allegations of financial impropriety by Les Jamieson posted at 911blogger.com, previously? And was it posted in a prominent manner? If so, got link? I'd like to read it, now.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
Maybe...
But I don't recall seeing those specific excerpts posted here.
I never deleted a comment with those remarks in it. I don't even remember seeing one. It's possible that SBG may have, before he turned in his admin badge.
If an ENTIRE thread was deleted, by the user who posted the original blog entry, that may explain the missing comment which Arabesque is sure was posted.
Rep, I was not implying you deleted my comment.
Rep, I was not implying you (or 911blogger.com) deleted my comment.
What I meant is that I believed that the entire thread must have been deleted by the original poster. Sorry for the confusion.
You are correct that I posted in that thread there, but I also made another comment somewhere else with direct quotations from the WAC website. Thank you for finding the other thread where I also linked to the WAC site.
When I posted this information, I quoted excerpts from WAC's website. As I recall, I took excerpts from the WAC website and highlighted the accusations against Jamieson. As I quoted myself above on the truthaction forum, I expressed concern that a man who has been accused of "withholding donations" was given the role of organizing volunteers and running the website of the NYC ballot initiative. I did not know if these accusations were true or not, but I believe I expressed the opinion that the Ballot should have at the very least investigated these claims.
Again, what people have to understand is that being critical is essential for success for the 9/11 truth movement. If we just say that "anything goes", we are shooting ourselves in the foot. Clearly, there is a loud section (42 members) who did not approve of the NY911T leadership of Les Jamieson as the WAC website reveals. Now, if there is a large group of people who do not approve of his leadership, it seems to me, by putting him in a position of leadership with the Ballot, the commission was asking for trouble. I am saying this as someone who is not involved in the politics of NYC. If someone is a lightning rod for controversy, the SMART thing to do is simply ask him to resign and replace him. I don't understand why this didn't happen.
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A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog
That's a great thread to revisit
to see people getting barked at (and voted below viewing threshold) simply for pointing out the multitude of blazingly obvious red flags regarding the "leadership" of this project... and here we are with the deadline still weeks away but the process strangely halted... oh well at least we can all look forward to a whole year plus of fundraising, energy diversion, more great news stories on the commissioners, etc. I'm sure all the willfully blind pollyannas will be happy to go along for the ride and excoriate anyone who isn't as being unpatriotic, er un-trutherlike. Yay.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Was it posted as a home page blog?
Or as a comment to a home page blog?
Or on a non-home page blog?
A ballot initiative is far more easy to achieve than getting the do-nothing (good) Congress to pay any attention. If I was involved with the 911 coverup, I'd want to make sure that the ballot initiative failed.
I wonder if there's a mole in 911blogger with administrative privileges?
Whatever the case is, I think it's clear that we need the more credible people involved with the ballot initiative to step up and at least let us know how they intend to fix whatever is ailing the project.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
911blogger "mole"
"I wonder if there's a mole in 911blogger with administrative privileges?"
No, I don't believe this. It looks like the entire thread was deleted by the original poster. Anyone who posts their own blogs has the ability to delete their blog. When this happens, obviously the comments disappear as well. In fact, I was looking for another comment that I posted a while back and it appeared that thread disappeared too. So these things happen.
But, it might be a good idea for 911blogger to keep backup (offline) copies of deleted threads? Something to consider.
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A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog
I knew about it
Can't really say why no one here knew about it.
Why are you surprised? Les Jamison is part of the Urantia outer space religion.
If you have a problem with Webrè, it makes sense you would have a problem with Jamison.
In NY people said it shouldn't be anyone's business what is Les' religion.
The real problem is that Les' 9/11 "organization" doesn't exist. It has no Constitution, no by-laws, no procedures. The minutes of the "steering committee" meetings are never made public. The finances are not made public. Les is unelected. The crowds at the St. Mark's Church meetings have dwindled.
Neal Waldrop, a trustee of Urantia/ex-NSA and Les Jamison are Urantia.
?!
The Conspiracy Hypothesis*
"Also a current reader of The Urantia Book and active Urantia movement member told me privately and confidentially (so I will not reveal his name without permission) that ex-NSA officer, then-current-Foreign Service Officer, past-URANTIA Foundation Trustee, Neal Waldrop, told him in 1982-83 that an intelligence agency had been "mingling with the affairs of the Urantia movement" (the reader's words). But that it no longer was presently then. I suspect Waldrop referred to MKULTRA, but he could hardly be expected to admit to an ongoing NSA undercover mission in the movement in which he, himself, might have been a secret operative."
Why is Les still getting away with this stuff [not being open about the finances, etc.] after all these years?
Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - "Horselover Fat" Phillip K. Dick
Sheweth Picts
Ahem--not completely true, luv
"Can't really say why no one here knew about it."
Many of us have been making loud objections at truthaction, truthmove and 911blogger--that rep pointed out here(and two days before you posted your comment):
http://911blogger.com/node/16191#comment-190084
I'm so proud of my -4. ;-)
As for the rest, this Dutch bloke sorts it:
______________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/
http://truthaction.org/forum/
http://www.911blacklist.org/
what a shame..
only 3,000 away from the 30,000 needed.
"I will not withdraw from this war even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." -George W. Bush
What a shame indeed.
Why I have my doubts on Les Jamison's "Accounting". Signatures and otherwise. Let's learn from history.
http://www.wearechange.org/ny911truth/index.html
Open public letter signed by 42 NY911Truth members, IGNORED by Les Jamison
On March 7th, 2007, at Au Bon Gout (a Deli), 276 Fifth Avenue at the Corner of 30th Street, a public meeting was held to address the issue of the NY 911 Truth Bank Account, and to formulate a plan through which to resolve the conflicts that are currently plaguing the Movement. By a vote of 17-0, it was voted that Luke Rudkowski and Tom Foti should be granted access to and ownership of the group bank account now registered under the name "Civic Action Committee" jointly with its present controllers. You, Les Jamison have not provided funds for flyers or DVD’s for the last three street actions at Ground Zero and last street action at Union Square .
Therefore, there is a need for more people with access to the account so that the regular street actions may continue, where countless people in the city have been exposed to the Truth. Since Luke Rudkowski and Tom Foti are the most active members in those actions, and they need money for flyers and DVD’s, they need access to the bank account. Due to a previous vote at a public meeting, Tom Foti and Luke Rudkowski were already supposed to be added to the bank account. Les undemocratically disrespected that vote by willingly failing to enforce the decision.
It should be noted that you, Les Jamison, were well aware of the meeting on March 7th and did not attend. Les chose not to attend this meeting and make his voice heard and he failed to answer any of Luke’s calls or other member’s' phone calls regarding his vote or opinion.
The group agreed that all decisions should be made in a democratic process. Les currently has 100% control of the bank account, website and email list and the group agreed that this should not be. Instead the group decided that 25% of ownership of the bank account should be assigned to Les Jamison, Harvey Newmen, Luke Rudkowski and Tom Foti. The money currently in the bank account was raised by the hard work of all NY 911 Truth members and should not be controlled by any single individual who does not provide any documentation as to how the money is utilized.
Dividing the group is counterproductive and against all that NY 911 Truth stands for. No One person shall make a decision to kick someone out due to personal conflicts, as it stands Luke Rudkowski and Tom Foti are still active members of NY 911 Truth. If any member wishes to dismiss any member we shall do it in a democratic process. We all need to sit down and come to a democratic resolution on these issues in a public open meetings.
Best Regards,
Active members of NY911TRUTH
1. Ryan Rodriguez
2. Judy Andreas
3. Dianne Lipson
4. Tony Martucci
5. Luke Rudkowski
6. Dan Burke
7. Joe Friendly
8. Cathy Fessel
9. John Fessel
10. Gary Talis
11. Tom Foti
12. Peggy Cather
13. Dennis Griggs
14. Nellie Griggs
15. Robert Yoro
16. Jonathon Vreeland
17. Marsha Shepardson
18. Sabrina Rivera19. Kaitlyn
20. Brian Kenny
21. Cassandra Siegler
22. James Orlando
23. Amir
24. Brian
25. Brendan
26. Scott Star
27. Darnekk Louis
28. Adam Kalmus
29. Steven Lilianov
30. Oscar Ayala
31. Marie Rovmer
32. John Comyns
33. John Paul Harkins
34. Walter Reddy
35. Dan M Nalven
36. David Acvevedo
37. Paul Isac Jr.
38. Lou Rosenberg
39. George Plagianios
40. Manny Badillo
41. Rob Hulshrt
42. J.R Guerra
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The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
September 11 cover or impeach * NYC ballot-2009
[In referenced recent issue of Flyby News we posted to this article.]
Flyby News Notes -
Editor - Jonathan Mark - www.FlybyNews.com
August 15, 2008 - September 11 cover or impeach * NYC ballot-2009
"Why is this man in the White House?
The majority of Americans did not vote for him.
Why is he there? And I tell you this morning
that he's in the White House because God put him there
for a time such as this."
- Lt Gen William Boykin,
speaking of G. W. Bush,
New York Times, 17 October 2003
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"God gave the savior to the German people.
We have faith, deep and unshakable faith,
that he was sent to us by God to save Germany."
- Hermann Goering
speaking of Hitler
1) September 11 Cover-up, Related Wars & Campaigns
- - Court: Saudi Arabia not liable in Sept. 11 attacks
- - Pentagon official removed from 2nd Guantanamo trial
- - Putin Demands His $30 Billion Or He Broadens the War
- - "President Bush, Will You Please Shut Up?"
- - US military will stay in Georgia
- - The New York Times: Making Nuclear Extermination Respectable
- - The BBC’s Demolition of 9/11 Truth
- - FilmClick: Red Pill nominated in best documentary category
- - Carrying Forward the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative
2) Join Kucinich 1 Million Strong for Impeachment Hearings
- - Obama Jet Incident was really an Emergency
- - The Internet As You Know It Is Slated For Death By 2012
- - Additional critical news resources post@ Flybynews.com
Editor’s Notes:
On 18 August 1999 John Gofman, a physicist on the team that developed the atomic bomb for the US during World War II, said, in response to that day’s Cassini-Earth flyby (with a record load of highly radioactive plutonium on board and at record speeds), "I'm very much in favor of the space program, but I think the use of plutonium in space is a manifestation of organized insanity." The insanity has been progressing exponentially in the last nine years. Some in this issue will raise eyebrows, but there is much to consider beyond mainstream news coverage. Note the last article with a date on the death of the Internet. So, don't wait, sign the online petition for Impeachment Hearings today at kucinich.us - what we all agree upon is much greater in significance than any of differences. Please note, too, the breaking news from the NYC 9/11 Ballot Initiative.
"It's better to light one candle
than to curse the darkness"
-- Emily Dickinson
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September 11 cover or impeach * NYC ballot-2009
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for life's survival in the 21st Century
Jamison needs
to be very specific about the next election cycle & explain his shunning of Luke.
This is very important. Please look further into it.
The conversation about this issue is far more developed and in depth over on TruthAction and TruthMove. More facts and analysis from people very familiar with all this. Please have a look.
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3724
http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/871?replies=58
Clarification
I can't speak for that WAC posting, but the speculation of others commenting on the story is misinformed. A submission to the City Clerk is actually asked for 60 days prior to the September 4 deadline (when the WORDING of the referendum is to be submitted to the Board of Elections, allowing two months for it to be printed on all election materials). So once the July 4 date was passed, it was already overdue, but Les and others (who've given themselves selflessly and are receiving zero appreciation from the movement as a whole) decided to aim for August 4, still giving City Council one month to go over the petition. The process once the petition is submitted only gets more complicated. It is generally recommended that any petition has DOUBLE the signatures required when it is submitted, because it will be contested and usually about a third of the signatures will be thrown out on various ridiculous technicalities designed to prevent democracy. Check a petition that was submitted 10 years ago. Around 30,000 of the 75,000 submitted were contested as invalid. Submitting just over 30,000 with a week or two prior to September 4 is simply absurd, anyone who doesn't realize that hasn't looked at the process and history of ballot initiatives. With that in mind, anyone can wonder and speculate why there are only 27,000 signatures at this point. We have received a documented number of 17,000 signatures from early July to now, meaning that roughly 10,000+ were collected prior to July. To me this is not a surprising number considering the small number of petitioning volunteers involved from February until the end of June. It is entirely possible that the small number of volunteers in the first half of the year were able to collect well in excess of 10,000 but many of them have been "lost", but such a thought is only speculation, there is no evidence to suggest it. If you've actually petitioned you will know it is not so easy to get a signature, many people won't stop to listen to you and many of those who do won't sign, for a multitude of reasons. All in all, I believe at this point the failure to reach well in excess of 30,000 signatures by this time is a failure of everyone in the movement who cares to see a new investigation. Despite this being the most concrete, viable opportunity for a real investigation, funding has been sparse, those who questioned the integrity of the Initiative leadership have distanced themselves rather than involving themselves to make sure it happened the right way, and there are certainly a number of ways it could have been better managed throughout.
For those "wondering" what is meant by "the next election cycle", for god sakes take a look at the Board of Elections website, it's November 2009, the mayoral election. I suggest anyone who genuinely cares about seeing a new investigation involve themselves critically, rather than attacking from a distance and being totally insensitive to those who have given so much in the last six months. Granted, that may be easier said than done. But at least try. Fingers crossed there isn't another false flag attack in the next year, having the 10 month window to further educate New York on why there should be a new investigation, and to obtain an excess of 75,000 signatures, could mean shooting for next year is a blessing in disguise. Stop pissing in the face of those who are working at this without rest, and help out. Your criticism would be helpful if it came out of respect and dignity.
"Once the collapse initiated, the video evidence is rather clear. It was not stopped by the floors below. So there was no calculation that we did to demonstrate what is clear from the videos."
-John Gross, National Institute of Scientific Treason
The Actual Decision for Next Year
Moreover, the actual decision to aim for next year was first pondered and leaned towards in a meeting involving more than a dozen individuals, and Les was probably the last person to accept it because he wanted it to happen this year. Many out there don't seem to realize how deeply disappointing this has been to those who have worked on it. If you think your disappointment exceeds ours, you ought to get yourself involved rather hurling insults from afar... what a hypocritical "they'll take care of it for me" sort of attitude. Anyways, we're rising above it.
"Once the collapse initiated, the video evidence is rather clear. It was not stopped by the floors below. So there was no calculation that we did to demonstrate what is clear from the videos."
-John Gross, National Institute of Scientific Treason
Excuse me
Several attempts have been made to communicate the very serious concerns that many of us have about the ballot initiative with people in a position to do something about it. These communications have been the very essence of respect and dignity. They have been ignored.
Can you tell us who these people are?
We really need to get this sorted out....
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
Come to think of it
Maybe it's unwise to be too public about things, just yet. Reprehensor is looking into things.
However, I have a suggestion for something to start, immediately. Since there are other NYC 911 Truth groups, might they be willing to put forth proposals on
1) how they would take over the current ballot initiative?
2) how they would do things, starting from scratch?
Such proposals should include things wrt financial transparency and safe-keeping of ballots already filled out. Also, I'd like to see a 'transparent' plan for how people both inside and outside NYC can make it happen, either by helping raise cash, or else publicizing the initiative so that others could donate $, or else come to NYC to help out.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
Another organizational point
I just checked http://www.nyc911initiative.org/, and there is no forum. Thus, all electronic communications have to go through whatever email addresses are associated with the site. If we want transparency, an obvious way to help bring it about is to have a public forum. That immediately creates a need for moderation, but it's probably better to have that problem, than to have situations like the present one, where supporters of the current ballot initiative, such as myself, find out over a year later that there are allegations of financial impropriety against LJ.
Also, another thing that should be considered is an online AUDIO (& video) chat forum. Not sure about the current status in the US, but these things were big in China years ago. The technology is out there, boys and girls. Then again, even a plain old conference call should do nicely. If such calls were a regular part of organizing, and, say, Lorie Van Auken was participating, somebody could have simply asked her about it directly, and there wouldn't be all this mystery about what broke down, enveloping everything.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org
checkered past
Given Jamieson's checkered past - affiliation with known disruptors - and promotion of individuals like Webster Tarpley, Dr. Fetzer, Judy Woods and Paula Gloria - it should be no surprise to you that he is not enjoying the support of those very same people who have been victimized by the brigade of disinformation artists he promotes.
"We need to move beyond conspiracy theories and slogans - and return to our roots. 9/11 Truth is no less than a constitution battle to ensure our rights as citizens to demand full and honest answers from our appointed representatives in Washington. "
thanks for clarification
Not only is your clarification about the process of petitioning nyc government appreciated, but for your and colleagues' efforts on this most important campaign for our world. I forwarded your comments to Janice Matthews of www.911truth.org since she was getting so many conflicting reports on the initiative. That it has gotten to the point to likely continue until an authentic investigation is completed is heartwarming.
Thanks to tens of thousands of nyc citizens taking a stand for truth and freedom..
and your rising above the noisy-misleading chatter..
in unity truth & justice,
jonathan
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>>I judge a person by their
>>I judge a person by their actions
Apparently you are fine with nonsense advocates being promoted to the public to represent "9/11 truth" at key events and anniversaries. Most are not.
Lots of people work hard. But some work hard to mix what most consider nonsense and dysfunction with what most consider strong and credible research for the outcome of discrediting and muddling the strong research. This doesn't take rocket science to understand. Discrediting by association has a long history of rewarding those who use it. Intention need not play any role at all, merely dysfunction, which must be treated the same.
Attacks?
Yes - actions DO speak louder than words.
Stop me if anything i say is factually incorrect:
1 - Mr Jamieson has hosted 9/11 events featuring Dr Fetzer, Judy Woods, Webster Tarpley, Paula Gloria, Webfairy & Nico Haupt.
Do you support this? How do you explain it?
2 - At a 911 anniversary event Mr Jamieson featured Webster Tarpley who accused Cosmos - creator of the 11th of the Month actions - and TruthAction.org - of being a TERRORIST. He further accused other activists of being cointelpro agents and on the Ford Foundation payroll.
Do you support this? How do you explain it?
3 - Mr Jamieson promoted Paula Gloria speaking at St Marks church at a NY 911 TRuth event. Ms Gloria is most recently known as a video artist who frequents ground zero video taping Nico Haupt assaulting and harassing 911 activists.
Do you support this? How do you explain it?
4 - Mr Jamieson has been publicly accused by Luke of WAC of stealing common funds raised by the group.
Would you like to publicly accuse Luke of being a liar?
Now. Despite the fact that Mr Jamieson graciously allowed you to sleep on his floor - do you have any substantive opinions relating to the above listed grievances?
"We need to move beyond conspiracy theories and slogans - and return to our roots. 9/11 Truth is no less than a constitution battle to ensure our rights as citizens to demand full and honest answers from our appointed representatives in Washington."
as i expected
as i expected you fail to address the concerns listed.
I suppose you support organizing 911 anniversary events in which 911 activists are labeled terrorists?
i suppose you condemn We Are Change and TruthAction and TruthMove for taking issue with these FACTS?
i suppose you support Judy Woods, Dr Fetzer, Nico Haupt and Webster Tarpley?
i'm not sure exactly what you gleened off of Jamieson's floor - but some of us are actually reality based in our analysis.
fabrications?
as usual - you accuse me of 'fabrications' that you do not specify.
exactly what am i fabricating? that Jamieson organized an event on the anniversary of 9/11 that publicly labeled 911 activists as terrorists?
and what about a commissioner who claims UFOs and aliens visited - and the government covered it up?
do you support this man as a commissioner? do you think he speaks well for the movement?
when will you respond with specific and substantive answers? how many times must these concerns be raised?
fabrications? what exactly have i fabricated. i challenge you publicly to show what i have fabricated.
"We need to move beyond conspiracy theories and slogans - and return to our roots. 9/11 Truth is no less than a constitution battle to ensure our rights as citizens to demand full and honest answers from our appointed representatives in Washington. Clar
>>lack of unity and power
>>lack of unity and power struggle in-fighting.
That's a claim used to rationalize the inclusion of nonsense at every turn. This situation is beyond "Big Tent." Your unwillingness to address JohnA's points is fairly clear -- you take the time to defend Les in detail, appealing to emotion with personal experiences about his character and claims of "attack" and "infighting" but you won't take the time to address the simple points regarding the facts of why so many share JohnA's viewpoints.
No accusations. Just questions.
I think everyone here sees that you refuse to answer my questions - and you refuse to produce evidence that i am 'fabricating.'
case closed
because
Did Les sponsor an event that labeled Cosmos of TruthAction a terrorist?
Did Les sponsor events where Judy Woods and Dr Fetzer and Nico Haupt and Paula Gloria presented 9/11 Truth?
You juuuuust can't seem to answer these questions - can you?
why would i want to endorse any initiative by this man?
how would you like it if YOU were labeled a terrorist at a 9/11 anniversary event to an audience full of people? huh?
"We need to move beyond conspiracy theories and slogans - and return to our roots. 9/11 Truth is no less than a constitution battle to ensure our rights as citizens to demand full and honest answers from our appointed representatives in Washington."
organizational "cookbook" just came out
I often read dailykos.com, which is a (mostly) progressive, Democratic blog, which has made a real impact in modern politics.
The head honcho of dailykos.com, Markos Moulitsas, has come out with a new book called Taking on the System - Rules for Radical Change in a Digital Era. I haven't read the book (it actually comes out tomorrow), but IMO you have to pay attention to a book by somebody like Moulitsas, on such a subject, if you're interested in political change in the US. My assumption is that the book will be of value to activists of all stripes and political orientations, whose focus is not aligned with whatever is the prevailing direction in Washington, D.C. .
One thing I really appreciate about Moulitsas is that he completely gets that you have to change the elected representatives who are, after all, the gatekeepers of so much of real power, in the US, to the extent of using his web site to channel fund raising to particular, sympathetic candidates. I personally have little patience for begging any elected representative to do the right thing, over and over again, when they show no indication of having any sympathy for my cause, whatsoever. My attitude is like that of Donald Trump - "You're fired!"; except, of course, in a democracy you need to get lots of fellow voters to help you achieve that.
I have been fascinated, critical, as well as dismayed by how little activism seems to achieve in modern US society, at least since the 1960's. 911 activism really isn't much different, though of course it's been additionally hampered by being a "high strangeness" type of issue. Everybody just knows, don't they, that modern democratic governments would never contemplate and coverup the slaughter of it's own citizens, right? So, besides the ossification and pushback inherent in a system that, presumably, works well for somebody, even at the expense of populist causes, there's the additional incredulity factor. Additionally, it's been hampered by the inability to obtain primary evidence, which is tightly held by the government - when it hasn't already destroyed it. (Consider the contrast with an environmental activist who want to get the government to subsidize, via tax credits, solar panels. The efficiency and cost information is readily available. Also, I expect there's reams of data, perhaps not easily analyzed, but nevertheless available, which would additionally allow precise comparison of environmental impact.)
A couple of reviews of the book are linked to here, but the second review, in particular, caught my eye because of this:
Quote:
It wasn't until Rod Parsley's shop went after me that I really got it, though. Because the moment I tried to figure out how to respond to his bullying, I reached for Taking On The System to help me devise a strategy.
If this really is a useful cookbook for progressive Democrats, then there should be value for activists in general, and 911 activists, in particular.
http://www.pdamerica.org
http://www.change-congress.org